The Secret to High Detailed Photography
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- Download the source files for FREE here:
www.joelgrimes...
Understanding Bit Depth for Photographers may not be the most exciting topic to cover.
It could still change how you look at processing your images, giving you a much greater quality in the final results.
When my students ask me about bit depth this always comes up, “If we view our images in 8 bit, why do we need to start in a higher bit like 14, 16, or even 32 bit”?
Follow me and see why I process my images in 32 bit, how to do this, and what difference that makes to our final results
As I always say, “The proof is in the pudding.”
I just discovered the most amazing, underrated channel on UA-cam!!!
This man here has been the greatest influence on my art and workflow. I owe so much to him.
Even more amazing is that he is color blind.
Same herre!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
I have been following you for 16 years+ and have a lot of respect for your photography skills, your processing skills are superb thx for sharing your knowledge it has helped make me a better photographer.
@S Tra Haha that's side splitting stuff. and a very predictable answer well done.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
I "knew" about bit depth and dynamic range.. but your examples showing with and without high bit depth... THAT was an eye opener to me!! thank you!!
joel, good stuff, i have shot hdr for more than ten years and like you nearly all that i do is hdr or suedo hdr. yes, hdr has been given a bad wrap until the viewer sees the light, and the light is the bit depth, and the detail in the shadows. great topic, StevePower
At 76 I am learning digital photography and discovered bit depth today.
Many thanks for your video and for your ten steps e-book!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Years ago, I founded a photo group through a local art center. At one of the meetings, I challenged the group to do true black and white, as close as possible. I heard a lot of groans. So, I offered a 16x20 gallery wrap print paid from my own wallet to the winner as judged by me. When I reviewed all of the entrances, one really stunned me. The submission was done by an inexperienced lady who was just learning photography. When I brought the print to present the winner… a collective gasp followed by silence and then standing applause. The moral of this story is to go beyond what you think you can do and stretch your imagination. And that’s how I view your work and your commitment to DO and stretch your abilities.
Thanks for the presentation Joel! Important information for maximizing the technical quality of digital capture.
The sRGB colour space has a "reduced colour gamut" compared to Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB, as you mention. Important for all to know: colour information is compressed and lost or thrown away, not only by the bit depth option but also by the colour space selection when generating an image from a Camera RAW file (14bit or true 16bit MF capture ). sRGB is best for digital presentation; monitors, the web etc. Adobe or ProPhoto RGB is best for print purposes. With my 25+ years of pre-press and imaging experience, I've learned a couple things about maximizing images and processing and was fortunate enough to study under Dan Margulis, the ultimate master of colour and imaging quality who I'm sure you're familiar with :)
tks to explanation shared! I had thinking about if sRGB or Adobe RGB is the best colour space to use when I was watching another tutorial about it.
This unlocked something in my brain for me. Thanks Joel! Another master to watch and learn from
Awesome, thank you!
I watched this video to the end and checked my Ps and LrC settings. Sure enough, they had defaulted to 8 bit just like Joel said they would. Thanks Joel! You saved me a world of headaches.
you are so welcome Jeff!
Many thanks, for this! What a difference, the higher/highest bit depth makes!
Honestly, the best lesson I've learned in the last 10 years. I shoot editorial entertainment, celebs. But, I've had to diversify as competition gets more fierce with less going on due to covid. This lesson is just one more tool to rise above the rest and get amazing results. Thanks so much for this.
Thanks so much for that, glad to be helpful!
Hola Joel. Es Impresionante que después de tanto tiempo como fotógrafo por mera casualidad, encontré tu video y ha sido de las mejores informaciones que he encontrado y muy reveladora. Muchas gracias por compartir tan excelente información y tan útil.
I had to chuckle at your 5th wheel analogy. I lived in a 5th wheel for a year and a half and now a motorhome. More power is never a bad thing!!
Thank you for your informative videos Joel. Your techniques have got me excited again as I was looking for something new to try, and you did just that. Been a photographer for 60 years now so this is great knowledge you are sharing. Subscribed and looking forward to viewing your collection of videos. Cheers from Australia.
Thanks Barry!
Thanks for your video first time at your channel. You mentioned you have video how to process 32 bit from how to take 32 bit photos. would you please share that video \ I don't see where do you have that video.
So refreshing! Thank you.
You are so welcome!
Thanks Joel, being an old editorial news photographer and after 30 years shooting jpegs now I finally get it. Well done!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Thank you, I am excited to try this with my many raw files that I shot in my 5Div HDR will be even better than before. Subscribed
ThankU very much for this incredibly informative video!
To make a long story short, Vital, vital, vital !
You are my man. Thankyou for this, Joel !
🤯👍
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Fantastic, and very important video. Thanks Joel!
Thanks for the informative video! Part of this process is to have a computer and monitor that supports 10 bit per channel colour output, and wide colour gamet. Not all monitors are created equal. You need a graphics card that supports 10 bit output over display port. And a monitor that can output nearly 100% or at least 97% Adobe RGB - Eizo, Dell, NEC and Ben Q all have options. No monitor, from the last time I researched can output ProPhoto RGB colour space. A classic example of this as you said is “ pushing” greys or skies too much and producing banding (loosing file information). This can be clearly seen on this type of system. I too agree, forgetting to reset Photoshop working colour space after an update has caught me a few times also.
I had no idea, thank you so much!
Congratulations to all. Amazing images.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Extremely useful, clear and succinct information. Thanks so much.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
First to your channel. Thank you so much for the bit depth information.
Glad it was helpful!
Really, really, really well explained. You are an excellent teacher and clearly possess the empathy required to help students understand complex information. As an educator myself, and I don't wish to be patronising, this is so impressive!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
I been trying to explain this to folks forever. Thank you for making a video! So fatigued by junk megapixel marketing these days.
Glad it was helpful!
Joel - your work is very, very good. Also your images have that "spice" mixture right to my taste. I love them!
Thank you. I had no idea about bit depth.
@@Auroralover9797 you are welcome 😊
Perfect, the best instruction. Grateful!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Yes! Awesome explanation on bit depth. Thank you for your time and expertise.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you. I'm not sure quite how to do this practically, but I'll have a go as the results are worth putting the effort in. Thanks again Joel. Much appreciated as always.
Bit depth is the number of samples that represent the tone and/or colour stored in any pixel!
Started with PS5 a long time ago. Back then I was doing "composite" images layering bracketed exposures and revealing highlight and shadow details with the tablet. I have one of those here somewhere...
Love your teachings and how you share your expertise. This subject is powerful. 💖🙏🌟
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
I've always admired your work since finding you on Creativelive. You come across a very down to Earth type of teacher, thank you.
Thank you Jason. That means a lot!
Incredibly informative. Didn't realise about bit depth, or 16bit processing. Plus ISO bracketing is a great tip. Cheers Joel 👏
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Greetings from Guanajuato!!
Thank you for sharing this... It excellent video... lots of learning... and this is called experience makes perfect...
Amazing information. Thank you for sharing the bit depth concept. Cheers !! 😊
You're very welcome!
Thanks for this video. Very educational and practical. I just did my first B&W HDR and I’m really happy with the dynamic range but especially with the smooth gradation of greys in the sky.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
🤩 Awesome work of yours. The info at 8:00 depends on brand: Nikon + Fuji GFX have massively more information in shadows as in highlights, Sony & Olympus the opposite (a1 not tested yet). Pls take it as a nerd’s comment only. 😄
Thank-you kindly, Mister !
@@JeraldMYates You're welcome. Depending on what I do, I shoot Nikon (normally) and Olympus (when weight, macro capabilities, flexibility is key). I also had the chance to test the GFX models of Fuji. The GFX has 16 bit RAF raw files (Bayer layer) and is awesome in keeping details in the shadows. Nikon next best. My OM-D EM1 Mk III is the opposite, I can easily overexpose by 1 to 1.7 stops and the detail recovery pushing the highlight slider to the left side is awesome, but I get noisy results trying to recover more than 1.3..1.7 stops underexposed. My Nikons I shoot generally -0.3 to -0.7 at least.
The colours are grey level number to the power 3. For example, 256 grey levels to the power 3 which is 256x256x256. A big number! (not 256 x3). Hope that helps....nice 'proof in the pudding' pictures. Excellent examples
Thank you, thank you! Who knew that during an upgrade in PS it reset to the default workflow setting in the Camera Raw workflow! Yikes!!
My expertise is audio and it's the same thing, compressed audio can sound fine, but if you EQ or process that too much, you'll unmask problems. I like to think of it as "baked". Once you got an MP3 or JPG, it's "cooked" so it's just too late to change the ingredients.
GREAT TUTORIAL! I never knew about bit depth, etc. Thanks!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Great info Joel,
Have all your courses, love your teaching style, inspiration and enthusiasm -especially as we are the same young vintage 😉😉📸
wow, thank you so much!
Very informative video. I like to think about bit depth in terms of sculpting a statue out of marble...or even carving a figure out of a piece of wood. You need a very large chunk of marble (32 bit depth) in order to be able to chip away (process) at it until you are left with your desired final product. If the starting piece (capture file) is too small (8 bit) then after chipping away at it you might end up with a statue that doesn't have a nose.....clipped in a way.
Ah sorry Joel. What I actually meant to ask was which metering mode do you use in your Canon: evaluative, partial, or do you spot meter with a handheld? I'd also be interested to know how you sharpen.
Excellent video and beautifully images.
The way I see it is that the key is exposure. Each time you overexpose each time you make low values come out of the noise. Each time you under expose each time you allow high values to come under saturation. Though having 18 or more stops-dynamic range and compressing it in 8 bits is a pity given our monitors and prints outputs 😕
Thanks for the eye opener.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Gorgeous photographs! Plus great tips - thanks a lot JG! Roger
Thanks Roger. Very much appreciated
thank you
Where is video mentioned at 20:00? I can't find it :-(
Hi Joel. My first visit to your channel, what a great find! While I do know the math of bit depth and have worked with HDR as the situation warrants, I had not considered the benefits of shooting bracketed photos to increase overall editable data depth. Very valuable ip, thank you for sharing. Like and a sub for you today.
Great video.
One question. There are two options in 16 bit when you import the pictures in camera raw - sRGB 16bit and Adobe RGB 1998 16 bit.
I have been using sRGB 16 bit. Do I lose out on these shades of grey if I don't use Adobe RGB?
Even with smartphone do not to shoot 8-bit .jpg only the 16-24 bit formats raw or png. I shoot in raw and save edits in 8-bit PNG because social media apps and sites are butchering image quality. Also can't handle 16-bit color data correctly.
Good Stuff!
Joel, excellent tutorial. I have one question for you. In working /adjusting in the 32 bit environment within LR, Is the final saved image as 16 bit or 32 bit ? My reason for asking is this, I make large prints on an Epson SC P-8000 44" printer, similar to your own Canon ipf4000. These printers can work with 16 bit files but not 32 bit. As such I believe once you send a file to the printer the very best output you ll get is 16 bit. Are you then diminishing any of the 32 bit quality you worked in on the software? I was hoping you might explain this out for me. Thanks! -Paul.
Definitely going to spend a lot of time learning from you, Joel. Thank you.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
I searched your videos for the full details on processing photos in photoshop but could not find anything. Have any links for us please?
Same here!
@John Waine hi friends, I found this video and it's show how to do what Joel explain. I tried with Joel's RAW files and did work! ua-cam.com/video/YC1nHjWtMZg/v-deo.html
I turned off compressed RAW on my Sony A7r4 because with compression on it only gives you 12bit instead of 14bit. There goes my file space 😂 I didn’t factor that in when buying a 61 megapixel camera, I thought I would just used compressed RAW. I wanted to see how you explains this, you did a good job 👍
Great information in this video, thank you Joel.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks
I’m very interested in getting the highest quality possible. I am no professional but I enjoy my photography. Thanks for the advice here, I was aware of 32bit depth but now I will use it more.
Thank you for the information Joel. I have the same question as some of the other folks here - I do not see the video you mention about processing 32 bit. Would love to see what that workflow looks like and at what point you convert the file for printing (if one doesn't own a printer as you do). Thank you sir!
Hello Gary! This might the one you´re looking for: ua-cam.com/video/z4HYksU_7Tg/v-deo.html
@@BjarteKFrnsdal thanks very much!
Beautifully explained. And as a wedding and portrait photographer, I have enjoyed your work for a while. Double check your spelling at 1:12 in the video.
Thank you! Will do!
I'm wondering if any of this is practical if we don't have the big expensive printer?
This is very good? As you explain the bit depth on this video I have been thinking on some of the prints I made and I only have two of them of a cityscape and they where printed after I requested to use my TIFF files at 16bit and not a JPG. Each time I look at the Tiff file prints I notice a richness in colors and a clear definition on the lines of buildings and smoothness of sky and, light and shadows. Definitely your last comment about printing it at a higher bits. I see the difference and it is also noticeable when I look at a Tiff file on the screen vs a JPG file. Very good information and definitely important to pay close attention to these. Thank you.
thanks for watching Luigi!
Great points here. One minor detail, though. 32 bits yield over 4 Billion values per channel, far more than "just" 16 million.
well spotted. And as you have 3 channels it is not times 3 as stated it is to the power of 3. With 32bit in 3 channels it therefore leads to incredible 4.722.366.482.869.645.213.696 colour values or 4,72e21 possible colours in total.
Yeah,that whole 16 million thing is for 24 bit.
Nicely done Sir. Love it, Who knew. Thank you
Very educational. Thank you. Going to try it straight away
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
I think I'd locally adjust the exposure on those trees and sky in the right top corner of the Tahoe pic. The shadow lift you did is a bit apparent. Though no one but photographers would notice.
thanks for the feedback!
Helpful. But I don't see the video he mentions showing how he edits in 32bit.
Try watching any of Joel's video "Start To Finish". You will see how he converts the captures to 32bit file.
@@BrunoKongawoin055 - Hi Bruno - can you post a link to a specific video?
Thats the same thing I've though. Nice but I've watched 23min and still don't know how to do it lol -_- A link to that other video would be appreciated.
I really enjoy your channel thank you so much , you have a new subscriber.
Awesome, thank you!
Many thanks for this video and the files. Great explanation.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
There are so many comments here that I did not check whether somebody already pointed this out: with 32 bit you get 4 294 967 295 color values per channel! 16.7 million values/channel is with 24 bit processing. Furthermore I don't remember if you mentioned that posting anything on social media or on the web in general it is usually converted to an 8bit jpg. Still when processed from 16 (14) bit bracketed raw files in Lightroom the final image will look better.
Apart from these minor deficiencies I loved your presentation. And your photos are fantastic.
Thanks Andreas
Informative video - thankyou very much. And thanks for the free source files which are very, very helpful. Subscribed.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Where can I get one of those captain von Trapp jackets?
I've done HDRs on landscapes or still life... What I don't understand is how you do make multiple exposures for an HDR on a portrait like the Harley dude... Do you tell him to stay absolutely still? how do you achieve 32 bits when your subject is animate.
I wondered the same...
Yes. Stay still, also photoshop will realign sutle misalingments between shots
I bracket with my ISO. To do that, I use the CamRanger, a device that connects to my camera. It fires the flash and camera fast enough to capture most subjects. Yes, they have to stay fairly still. I photographed around 100 Harley Davidson rider portraits and only one had some issues, which i fixed in Photoshop. This system works for me.
Where was your vid that showed how you used a grey backdrop with blend modes to change background.
I mean I already know a little about using overlay with grey, but I think you can even use blend ifs to refine.
I just wanted to rewatch that segment of yours to refresh memory on your method.
Living Legend to the Photography World.
living legend as a teacher, if he was a commercial shooter he'd be too busy to teach.
Thank you!
I manage to do both! 🤓
Great stuff Joel, Thank you.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Wow I had no idea. You said you you did HDR with ISO. how can I understand all about making HDRs?
Great information! Thank you!
You're so welcome!
Ok, but, do you take 3 pictures of a model to create an HDR? I can understand in landscape but how does it works when you are working with models?
Amazing!!!!! 😱😱😱😱
1) Bit depth chart is incorrect. 8 bit color gives you 16 millions colors overall and by your chart is it only 12 thousands. You need to multiply 256*256*256, not 256x3.
2) I assume that Joel is "do it in post" guy. What is wrong with filters? Landscape photographers use them to fit dramatic light difference in a scene.
3) If printers and paper could print at least 14 bits of color per channel you wouldn't need to process the image. I'd like to see the results of printing 16 bit color image without processing. if you're right It should show the info as it was in the file. All the info and a lot of gradients in shadows and highlights which we don't see on our at most 10bit monitors should pop magically.
4) You clearly doesn't understand that the grain "magically" disappeared on the "32bit" is not because of 32 bit color, it because of image stacking. It is well-known technique to reduce image noise in the sky for example. Noise appears because imperfections of each pixel on camera and some other things and it is kind of random so there will be noise in every image, even in a 32 bit raw image if such existed. Stacking Math averages pixel colors and due to randomness of noise it disappears buy smoothing. Average of (4, 4, 4) equals 4, as well as (3, 4, 5), here 3 and 5 are considered to be "noisy" values, but averaging "smoothes" them, the more images you stack the much accurate results you get. Such a rude misunderstanding of how it works. Or if you do understand that so why you sell us 32-bit in such a weird way by replacing one thing by another?
And there is more: 32 bit gives you 4.3 billion colors per channel. 16.7 million per channel you get with 24 bit. Total colors 4.3 billion * 4.3 billion * 4.3 billion.
@@michiuno2238 : The eye is the limitation.
@@brodriguez11000 For the purpose of tone mapping the image, human vision doens't matter. These bits are for the computer, not your eye. You would know that if he explained it properly, but he didn't.
So Joel is just another bullshitter 😂
This post, and the 4 replies, are the perfect, perfect example to illustrate what Joel has always said. "Think like a technician, get a technician's salary. Think like an artist, ask anything you want." A technician (whose mind is filled with data) will not understand that sentence.
Great video, great examples and advice for photographers that are going to print.
I do think that the numbers are off though. An 8 bit file has 256 possible values per pixel, per channel. Not 4 values. That would be 2 Bit. If it had 4 values it would look something like an original gameboy, black, white and 2 shades of grey.
An 8 bit file has 16,777,216 colours to choose from.
You always get me hyped up to shoot
Thank you..
Thank you for the well-explained information. Question about bit-depth and dynamic range. I have an older Leica monochrom with a bit-depth of 14 but the dynamic range is only 8.5. So if I bracket 3 exposures +/- 2 and combine them in Photoshop with 14/16 bit will I have more information than say a newer M246 with its 12-bit?
Excellent video, thanks!
Thank you!
You're welcome!
I noticed there is a shiny quality to the edges or surface transitions in the 32 bit images. I am trying to understand where that effect comes from when you use this technique. It almost feels it’s over the surface gradients.
Thank you Joel for this very useful information, great foto's.
Glad you enjoyed it
@ Joel This bit depth info is wrong you said '' unless you have a super high end mefium format camera the standard is 14 bit'' My Olympus em1 is 16 bit and neither medium format or ''super high end'' and its 6 years old. Also who the hell would just shoot crappy compressed jpegs when they can shoot big fat juicy raws ???
Good to know, thanks!
HiJoel, Where can I find your HDR 32 bit process video?
So instructive! Thank you!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
Thank you! Great video!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching