Disclaimer: this episode is very late to air - having been recorded over two weeks ago. This was due in part to sickness, a busy schedule, personal stuff and a small dose of laziness towards the end. Regardless, I hope y'all enjoy the episode!
The Reason a female Custodes is bullshit is because my Salamanders Chapter Master does not lose to someone who has less testosterone then he does. That is toxic to my headcanon.
...? You complained about the state of modern games while saying the games are fine? Like, you said it in a second after that. What are... you talking about?
@@Smokescreen568He's also sitting at 10k views after just one day which is more than many of his previous uploads. Let's be honest though, most of those dislikes aren't regular watchers and are just linked here from certain communities to be little culture war manchildren.
Weird take on Cavill, just assuming that he's latched onto 40k because it seems like an untapped goldmine, when he's talked about how he's been into it since he was 10 and nearly missed the casting call for Superman because he was playing WOW. People don't like him cos they're weird Snyder shills, they like him because he seems like he's genuinely a nerd with actual nerdy interests.
@@macbodyof course ironically if the likes of PK and his ilk get their way, it'll be a tapped out coal mine of a generic American sci-fi setting before it has the chance to actually hit a mainstream audience.
Wait, what? who da thunk it, people who like masculine things such as brotherhood & stoicism are attracted by a faction that portrays such things. Now the real question is why do people find that toxic? I don't.
@@Zach-si1gf People are drawn towards factions, armies, characters and settings for numerous reasons. But let me guess, you think it's all down to Space Fascism.
@@pkswarroom They are nonetheless extremely disrespectful to the established lore. Also, if it is done to appease the TV series overlords at Amazon than it is change done for new audience that do not care about Warhammer and just want to change it.
Plus they already have an entire Sisters of Battle and Sisters of Silence dedicated to them, amongst other things like mixed gender eldar, and strong female leaders for eldar and tau
When I go play IRL the people I find there are, almost without exception, super-welcoming to women wanting to play. GW introduce female Custodes and suddenly I'm told by UA-camrs and various commenters online that the hobby is full of toxic individuals who hate women. I do feel the people calling anyone with an issue with such a change misogynists and women-haters, do more to put women off the hobby than anyone. The women who play know it's rubbish, the women that don't play but wanted to are told the fanbase is toxic and so are put off.
I hate this female Custodes rubbish, but I and those like me were the ones constantly pleading for plastic Sisters of Battle, I kept saying they should make female Imperial Guard heads and sell them seperately, since the bodies didn't need to change. But when it goes against lore and I complain, I'm toxic and a monster.
The thing is the people who cause the problems don't even play the game. Most of the people who play the game are fine it's the lore only fans who've never touched a mini in their lives and just yell about Warhammer online who are the unbearable tools.
There are some genuine far-right chud woman-haters, a small minority, you can see them online calling for Warhammer to be a male-only hobby - but they rarely make their views public in actual games club because they know they’d be thrown out.
Also, introducing female Custodes has brought exactly zero women into the hobby. No woman who was not already down with playing toy soldiers is going to care about the imaginary lore changing to include them.
Warhammer has a toxic problem. But it certainly isn't the chuds. The custody issue would be far less of an issue if GW was halfway decent at writing lore. "Always been there" was absolutely ridiculous
Always been there isn’t how it was introduced. The Codex is how it was introduced. But because people leaked bits of it, people mistakenly see the Twitter post as the way GW introduced FemStodes.
@@gorgrum you know they're "bad" at writing the lore on purpose right? Because the Product is designed to allow the players to tell stories they want and get creative (its made for the people who aren't just purely consuming lore told to them by other people as their hobby experience.)
@@CmdrPinkiePie that's not the issue, the codex dropping a big retcon unceremoniously isn't great, but to gaslight the fans who ask about it is objectively poor customer communication.
The amount of time and effort and MONEY that Warhammer requires these days compared to just a few years ago, will continue to spawn people who are heavily invested in the hobby and the lore and the game respectively. People who have invested lots of time and money into these things will take them seriously, and people who take them seriously will be quick to become hostile changes they don't like. If GW has a problem with their fan base, they should maybe consider charging a lot less money and maybe people won't take their decisions personally.
Games Workshop charge too much. Won't argue with that. But that doesn't give a free pass to insane toxicity, often from the fans who aren't actually buying the models or playing.
@@AlexAlex-zt3hi Terminally online people don´t pay to watch TV shows, go to the movies, buy video games and they certainly aren't putting in the time and money investment that comes with expensive tabletop miniatures games. Those people are by definition not fans.
Most people get pissed at retcons when they're lazy and add nothing of value to the narrative. It has nothing to do with 'toxicity' or whatever -ism pejorative you want to throw their way. Plenty of people still don't like the whole 'primaris' storyline because it was a transparent attempt to sell more models rather than doing anything compelling to move things forwards. Changes like the Necron backstory at least worked to differentiate them as a faction rather than basically being metal tyranids, but you'll find plenty of longtime players who still aren't happy with that. Why do you want to feel more represented in the war machine of what is basically a theocratic, authoritarian super-state that considers individual human lives insignificant and wholly expendable anyway? Seems like the point of the setting is kinda that you should not want a self-insert power-fantasy to be supporting such a regime, no?
It's very telling that the people against the changes tend to think like authors, who see their characters as separate from themselves, whereas the representation crowd seem to literally identify with the characters.
"add nothing of value to the narrative" is fucking insane when referring to the inclusion of women. Tells everyone instantly what kind of a loser is talking.
Idk man I think adding female custodes and space marines adds at least a bit and don't remove anything. Sure it isn't revolutionary or anything but it's fun to have more options to be creative. I'm not the biggest fan of primaris truth be told, but if doing stuff to sell more toys is your issue then your problem is with capitalism.
@@IVIaskeradeoh yeah that's why people against changes are super fine with playing female characters. If you see them as a separate character then it shouldn't be an issue right? I'm not a dude and I play space marines. Why couldn't a dude play female custodes then?
I’m a female 40K player. I play orks, dark angels with an interest in guard. It is the lore players not the competitive ones in my store that have an issue. However, to say that they’re inherently bad is wrong, and people need to get out of their heads and into an flgs to paint or play with others. Also, 40K is a very male hobby, with maybe 1-2% of players at champions cup 444 registered players last weekend) being female. If you don’t have people in the room, it’s a lot easier to demonize them
with the female custodies I dislike it not because its a woman I didn't care when it was first announced I dislike it due to the fact that it was only done because amazon wanted more inclusivity in their show
The biggest issue is that people have forgotten how to discuss. If someone has a different opinion, people just insult. Not just in our community, the world as a whole
@@matavelhosTKOK I assume it's because unfortunately a pretty big portion of the fanbase is straight up fascist and keep saying stuff like "we need to put people like you in a insane asylum" to gay people, trans people and similar stuff to Jews. I left "The Imperium Of Man" on Facebook to avoid the constant stream of hate-mongering and borderline (if not straight up) Nazi-ism. It's like when they made female custodes canon the mods banned the people displaying anything but extreme hatred for the retcon, letting the most hateful run rampant unopposed. And apparently that Facebook group is considered "woke" by some other Facebook group. Fortunately better groups have been made where people can atleast be reasonable.
Yeppers, the social justice crew can't stand other people doing things that don't include them. It erodes their power structure and they can't have that.
@@bradleyjones6754 Well, it's a natural outcome. If people join the hobby and change the hobby, then it's no longer your hobby. For example, let's say you're baking a pie, and you have all your ingredients, then someone comes in and goes "no, you can't have pie pastry, use this sheep skin as a bottom crust" are you still baking in the way you originally liked? That's the problem. People joining a hobby should be for the hobby's qualities, not to change it to suit them. If they want something that suits them, they can create it or find it themselves.
@@Rundvelt - Great. I've been in this hobby for 25 years. Nazi grifters who want to turn this hobby into a recruiting ground can fuck right off. Keep ALL politics out of the hobby, not just leftist ones.
Yea, this conversation is all in bad faith. Targeting one side of the drama when both have issues. The entirety of this political agenda on either side is the reason why newcomers dont wanna interact online. Both sides have a point. Keeping the artistic and thematic integrity within media is very important. I have no stake in the Custodes thing but Space Marines are all about being a brotherhood and invoking that sense of it between them. It literally isnt written for any other gender. The other side asking for inclusivity is right that it's good to have it BUT there has and is inclusion within 40k and the people who say there isn't or want a faction to change it's uniqueness for that aren't actually fans. They're just there to flock to what's popular to jump to at the time. The so called "Chuds" yea i do see some racism and sexism from fans but yet like stated before. A loud minority that doesnt need to be in the community. Hell, the "Soys" have done just as bad. Get those ones out too. Moving on. Most of the debate I see isn't even coming from women and other minorities. It's usually white men such as yourselves or men in general seeking some sort of moral superiority complex. Other than that, maybe start thinking of things from different angles and deeper avenues than such surface level issues.
Maybe I like my 40k as the grimdark setting that it was before it was discovered by leftist fandom tourists. It’s *supposed* to be a horrible, nightmarish and oppressive world where hope is about as sweet as tasting water from the Dead Sea. Everyone who seems to be hopping on board saying the fandom that already existed are ‘chuds’ or ‘right-wing extremists’ always tend to take up the idea that 40k needs fixing of some kind. As it turns out, that fixing happens to be the aim of turning everything into a monolith to progressivism, liberal sensibilities and identity politics. Which completely goes against the premise of 40k, everything it’s supposed to be, and totally throws out any concept of it being okay to enjoy a hobby that just has a very dark and oppressive fictional setting. If people *didnt* like themes like that, they’d move on instead of constantly attempting to derail everything that Warhammer 40,000 has come to be primarily known for. Even the premise quote is clear as day for anyone to read as an introduction to the setting; Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. Of course though, to a leftist mindset, this whole premise and ideology is an element that needs to be removed and replaced with progressivism. And of course, every time there’s a push for it, there’s push back from the actual fans who enjoy it as it is. The bottom line being if you don’t enjoy the verses’ world setting then move on to something else. It’s as simple as.
40k literally starts with the line "forget the idea of progress" and here they are, arguing that the fascist hellstate founded on extreme xenophobia should be accepting of alternative life choices because that's just common sense.
@@HistoritorJimaldus And your point? Where's the strawman even? Everything I included about modern liberal sensibilities being pushed to be injected into the setting of 40k is evident.
@@HistoritorJimaldusyeah and its comical how they tried to make something satirical but it was actually just based af, and now its successful they have to pretend it was always straight laced while they mald and seethe for eternity inside 😂
@@HistoritorJimaldus “when a right-wing grifter gives a bad take and gets trashed with dislikes, they got ratio’d. But when a left-wing grifter gets bodied by dislikes, it’s BRIGADING!” 😂
@@drigoleus1055 Because the "woke" stuff in that game is entirely optional, save for the gay vampire bear sex scene I think. I don't think any rational person would have a problem with a game having the options for homosexual relationships with the player character so long as it were, again, *optional*. Just as it would be for straight relationships with the player character
@@thatoneoctopus7494 define woke to me please As well other games like starfield were insulted for the same things that baldur's gate Of course you guys only cherry pick any failure while ignoring the many other successful "woke" media
@@thatoneoctopus7494 can you define woke more specifically than just saying "that thing I been told is bad" As well I can remind you of many "woke" media that has done great like baldur's gate, Overwatch and apex legends, the Barbie movie, guilty gear, Elden ring and Bloodborne, transformers comics, the Mario movie How aren't those woke?
Granted, there are people in this hobby that are complete morons or worse. People that are allergic to new ideas, some that have horrible ideals and others that should get out of the hobby if they don't like it anymore (nostalgia is a powerful drug though). With all that being said, I feel like you brush aside a lot of the valid criticism that people (not just "toxic fans") have made regarding some decisions made by GW. Concerning the Female Custodes, you can't deny that just coming out of the blue with a "There are always been female custodes" when the lore referenced them as "The Golden Brotherhood" (7th edition codex) is at the very least a bit weird, and a big missed opportunity for GW to do something grand instead of just...leaving it here and being like "That? Oh yeah it's always been here, you've just been blind. Now buy our new book!" when it clearly wasn't. I think that if GW had done the proper work to introduce them, nobody in their right mind would have had a problem with that. For example, GW could have said something "the brotherhood lost too many members, and so the process was refined until daughters of Terra's noble houses could join their ranks!". Anything to make it look less half-assed than a single line in an overpriced book. Now, Warhammer lore is not...perfect by any means, far from it. But people that get invested in it want things to make sense in-universe and for GW to do at least some effort to write it (even though they often mess it up). Otherwise, what's the point in being invested in the lore as a fan? And when you get into a hobby, it's generally so you can take a break from the real world stuff. You know 40k is not a representation of our world (although some people seem to think it is or it should be), even if it takes inspiration from it. So when your hobby, your "space stuff with aliens, super soldiers and eldritch horrors where everything is grim and dark" starts to look more and more like the real world, is it you who have changed or is it the setting?
for many sad, sad people, femstodes breaks their whole immersion of the setting. Ah, GW has been invaded by wokeness and DEI, screw all justifications for it, they just KNOW its forced representation, so its bad by default no matter the in-universe reason. Which, barely exists to be fair. GW fucked up. But I'm not gonna sympathise with bigots scared of cooties.
The problem with this line of argument is that its never made when new Vehicles are introduced, or characters like Belasarius Cawl. The Rogal Dorn has always been there too. It's a really poisoned idea intellectualy have every retcon needs novels and novels of shit hand waiving exposition to explain. The Primaris update was not good writing, literature or "lore" - it was stupid hand wavey nonsense to explain new toys. Often, we can suspend our disbelief to see a new development get retroactively added to a deep canon with alot of history. However, when people wanted to keep the game with less women in it, they weren't willing to let this "it's always been there" slide this one time. I beg them not to write big or small changes into dramatised novelisations if the change just makes sense anyway. The Imperiums armoury will grow retroactively to suit the growth of the toys. And custodes having women in them males perfect sense both thematically and in terms of growing with a changing media and political landscape. In short, no - they didn't need to write some bad novel to explain what amounts to a minor canonical change.
Firstly I'd like to congratulate you both on discovering confirmation bias. It is present in your audiences just the same as in you, or all of us. Secondly I soundly reject your insinuation that just because the hobbyists of yesteryear got old they became bitter chuds. I don't think the sensibilities of a lot of people (myself included) changed overnight in relation to Warhammer. I think it is far more likely that those sensibilities remained constant while the bad practices became more pronounced with every new iteration of the game. Warhammer doesn't have a toxic fanbase problem. It has a problem with people flocking to it because it is popular but disliking/hating aspects of the setting and wanting to change it to represent their present day convictions. Pushing for changes because of diversity, equity and inclusivity is such a thing. They break verisimilitude, the illusion of disbelief, with the expressed goal of changing something fun and unique to the very same grey slop that is soundly rejected by every audience in entertainment.
@@pkswarroom Women were comfortable before self-appointed busybodies like your good self came in and started explaining to them how they should participate the correct way. I know, I met many in the various gamestores and clubs over the years. By the way what made you think of 'women' from my reply? I never mentioned them in any capacity and here you are, grandstanding over imagined slights. So let me be crystal clear: the problem is YOU and your kind. "Concent creators" looking for the next popular thing to attach themselves to. Effete "men" too afraid to form their own opinions and like things that others might dislike. Consoomers ready to eat up the latest slop just to have the semblance of a personality. You are the toxic part of any hobby you claim to participate in because you enable the worst excesses to monetize your fleeting interests.
Is it a toxic behavior wanting your hobby and passion to be free from political agendas especially the agendas that come from way more toxic communities, groups and organizations than even your fandom that is consider "toxic"?
@@pkswarroom you could say that probally about any sci fi universe that it is political. Some more some less but all of them are inclusive and diverse. People who force on others that their universe isn't inclusive and diverse enough never even read or watch a single thing about that universe. People love Warhammer because it is what it is, a dark xenophobic universe without political or cultural correctness. We just don't want all that woke bull*hit in Warhammer.
@@konradfat Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka, yeah nothing political there... Heinrich Kemmler, the Lichmaster? Yeah not a reference to anything political at all...
Warhammer has been doing great for decades before anyone said "woke" or "Chud". I don't think we have a "Chud" problem I think we have a problem with people spending too much time on Internet culture war arguments dragging it into the game store. On both sides.
It's not about you can't add this or that. If it fits then fine. It's more we've seen what happens before. Add stuff to be inclusive.... Then complain stuff is said space is offensive..... Then go after anyone who liked the old stuff and as we're seeing now "it's not made for you , just make your own stuff( which it was to begin with ) If you don't like something about a ip find parts of it you do. Or find another ip. Don't piss and moan to get it changed . You'd not complain that my little pony doesn't have death robots or go into McDonald's and demand they sell TVs
@@shonklebonkle324 Ah yes, change is good because change. Never ever complain if change is actually bad. Just consoom. You are part of why hobbies are getting worse and worse.
It’s not that inclusivity is bad, it’s that it already existed, it’s been in warhammer for a long time. There are male only factions like space marines, and female only factions like the adepta sororitas, and then factions of any race or gender or whatever way you want to categorize them. Going and saying “oh yeah this was always a thing we just decided to never mention it until now, time for a complete 180” and it does nothing for anybody except the people who want to see their specific niche that they want represented in every corner of the universe. It’s inclusivity for the sake of saying “look we’re inclusive!” And it’s very disingenuous. It’s the same thing as if they had just put dudes in sororita power armor and said “oh yeah it’s always been this way.” Both sides of this argument have their own points, but just about everyone supporting female custodes sits in this giant Reddit echo chamber repeating “if you don’t like it you’re a fascist chud and we hate you” which is such a backwards way of thinking and makes me disappointed in all of you UA-camrs and streamers. You don’t have to be a right winger to disagree with a lore retcon in warhammer. Calling people grifters and chuds, making snappy little remarks, gives off such a gross vibe and I’m disappointed to see so many vitriolic reactions towards everyone that disagrees with the decision. And yes, there are absolutely people who say some awful, horrible things, and should not be in this hobby, but they exist on both sides man.
The only female factions were either nuns or silent and soulless - with no genhanced females. Meanwhile the coolest and most popular twelve factions are all male-only space marine factions. Custodes being mixed is an excellent way to rebalance without doing FSM, and makes total lore sense
I've seen way more misogyny from the "step on me mommy awooga awooga" crowd who were supporting femstodes than from the "no thanks, I preferred them as they were" crowd who makes up the bulk of the people opposed to them.
@@HistoritorJimaldus"12 space marine factions." "Rebalance without FSM." 40k is not about equity. It's a fantasy with a sci-fi setting, a detachment from reality. It doesn't need to redistribute women to "rebalance" like a "redistribution of wealth." Women aren't an object or currency.
The fan base's tourist problem is both left and right. To claim that the right are the only rightful custodians of The Lore, over and above the people who actually wrote The Lore, is fucking hubris.
@@iExploder To change lore to just change lore is dumb. Give a real reason besides "They has always been "Insert whatever" is just dumb. If you want to change lore do it the right way. Not some half ass attempt to please people.
The REAL question is "if my hobby is so problematic and evil, why do YOU want to join in on it? Why not go make your OWN hobby that isn't problematic?" See...warhammer doesn't have a toxic fan base. We are passionate and we like the hobby the way it is, because thats why we got into it in the first place. Yes, the imperium is awful. I know that. The universe is grim dark. I know that too. Liking that fantasy universe isn't real world endorsement for xenophobia. Stop injecting your real world politics into my grim dark fantasy universe. The only toxic people are the toxic activists that are trying to change the hobby. They know they can't make their own hobby so they have to infect other hobbies. Talk about the real toxicity....because it aint the fandom that is toxic.
Its a hobby not your hobby. it exists with or without you. Individuals are are the ones making toxic not the game itself. Theres nothing wrong with female space marines and Orks are genderless. Instead of acting like its an attack on your identity, just focus on your own army and hush about what others wanna do with theirs.
@@ieatstheinternet as a member of the hobby, it’s very much my duty to gatekeep the hobby from weirdos and activists. You are clearly a toxic casual that is taking it personally. A kicked dogged barks. Go make your own hobby if this one is so problematic.
@@ieatstheinternet orks literally call themselves “boyz”. You are confusing sex and gender. Orks are asexual, not genderless and female space marines spits in the face of almost 50 years of lore. GTFO you toxic casual tourist activist.
@@ieatstheinternet I’m part of the hobby. I helped build it. There is almost 50 years of lore that people like me, the fandom, have been supporting and engaging with and helping to shape. If you want to go sit in a corner and make up head canon, fine…but leave the hobby alone. We like the hobby the way it is. If it’s problematic to you, go make your own hobby. Make a better hobby. Show us how much better and popular your hobby is. Oh right, you won’t do that because evil cannot create, it can only distort and destroy. That’s why activists are infecting the hobby. It’s not about making the game more inclusive, because it’s already inclusive. It’s 100% about taking away our toys. It’s not about making space for new people, it’s about taking away space from others.
Same right wing grifters convinced people of imagined ideological battles there. Jay said it best, its people taking advantage of your changing relationship and feelings towards a property/hobby.
@@pkswarroomno they’re not. Star Wars was ruined. It’s an objective truth the new content is bad. To say Disney Star was is good is an incorrect opinion
@@pkswarroom yeah, its the grifters that have caused Disney to not make back the money that was spent on the purchase of star wars 🙄 It couldn't be the horrible writing 😄
People who send death and rape threats at women in the hobby for putting female heads on space marines aren’t “passionate”, they’re fucking insane mate
Whenever I see a fanbase being accused of toxicity I always wonder, are they actually toxic or is the corporation trying to guilt trip them into not complaining about the pitiable state of affairs in the franchise they love? Sure, there are always *some* toxic fans, but if such a huge amount of your own audience turns on you, maybe, just MAYBE you should reconsider your course of actions.
Anyone who doesn’t acknowledge the contribution Sigmarxism chatroom to the online toxicity around Warhammer is being disingenuous. The other major contributor to online toxicity are content creators like this.
And Arch hasn't been fanning the flames from the right? Disingenuous. The culture war and politics needs to be kept the fuck out of the hobby. Left or right.
Not one woman I know who plays, (and I know many) wants lore destroyed for "inclusion". If you think it's toxic to want the lore respected then YOU infact are the toxic one
@@fugazi32 Not every piece of fiction can be Lord of the Rings level of quality - and that's okay 🙂. And honestly, in terms of lazy writing, I have more problems with characters from the atheistic age of the Imprerium like Guilliman and the Lion returning and being perfectly a-okay with the full-on cult worship of the Emperor than anything else.
@@HistoritorJimaldus "Do the majority of even my own fans disagree with me? No. It can only be a brigade" For someone shouting "cope" all over this comments section you certainly are providing a sterling example.
@@shartsmcginty8056yeah like from the get-go it already doesn’t make sense considering Custodes were already said to be created from the “sons of nobles.” Like that’s already pretty explicit in the fact that it’s a male faction. Thematically? Yeah no it also doesn’t make sense. Most all of the “elite” groups within the Imperium, especially any with power armor, are explicitly gender-locked and are built upon the idea of brotherhood or sisterhood. Space Marines, Sisters of Battle, former-Custodes, Sisters of Silence. My favorite part is that I frankly can’t think of any single reason that the Imperium would start producing female Custodes in the first place and, on a larger scale, why GW would introduce it (and especially as poorly as they did) without knowing it would sow division amongst the fanbase.
@@pkswarroom Female Sororitas and sisters of silence exist within universe with only an in universe legal explanation for the former and no excuse for the other. Astartes and Custodes are all male because of biology in universe and a sense of verisimilitude outside.
Inclusivity for the wrong reasons is wrong because that is actual racism. 40k fans aren't against inclusion because 40k literally already had it. But when retcons are happening to make it happen, it comes off as inorganic and forced, which is unfair to all parties involved. People should feel included and represented without being elevated so much that they stand out. No one had a problem with the idea of female custodes, but GW fucked up with their execution to attract people whose entire personality is "inclusion", which is neither interesting nor a customer you can count on
Well, not entirely on the last part. The idea of female custodes without something like "e.g. ancient STC thought to be destroyed by the Men of Iron found by a Admech Archmagos with a escort of a custodes, custodes gets killed by nids/crons/etc (Harlequins lets say for jokes) and then forced to turn a girl from the IG squad into a patchwork custodes with the STC using genetic modifications from the banana boys corpse." is absurd and against by anyone that cared because they were too exclusively male per lore, being what the Grey Knights LARP to be (and even funnier ADBs own book confirms that the process to turn into one lasts long enough that the custodes grows through puberty phenotype setting sufficiently that centuries later all the signature physical traits of their geographic origin are still visible on their face and details of their physique; which is even worse than with marines that get the manipulation 99.99% of the time starts before puberty where the differences are relatively low from a keeping irl science basics for the sake of suspension of disbelief perspective).
@@joejackson969ohh fans are / were pissed but these youtubers here brushed it off quiet quickly to not loose their whole thing as a content creator. People that have a whole range of a chapter got kicked in the nuts left the hobby instead of keep consuming, think about it.
I reject the idea of "inclusivity" because not everything is for everybody. Nobody cares about men who don't like romcoms. Nobody cares about country fans who don't like punk rock. If 40k isn't for you, no harm done.
The problem is it's getting popular, and when that happens people demand it be made for them. I was drawn to Warhammer because I loved the setting, not because it was a fad, you don't see men demanding Barbie be made more like G.I.Joe, because the Barbie movie was more popular then the G.I.Joe movie. Whether I like something or not, I would never disrespect by demanding it change to suit me. I wouldn't demand StarTrek be more bloody, or Harry Potter be more realisitic and well thought out.
@@HistoritorJimaldus no, I'm not straw manning anything. You meet Warhammer on its own terms. If you want to change/bastardize lore to make it more acceptable to people who ordinarily wouldn't be into it, you have an agenda that supersedes the franchise itself.
@@pkswarroom here comes the gatekeeping just because you like something 'quite a lot actually' doesn't mean you get to dictate to everyone how they can act around the hobby. honestly, you nerds need to get a grip, you're a laughing stock
Straight up genestealer behavior, we see how your type ruined DnD,star wars, marvel, DC, hell western gaming in general. Keep up the gatekeeping guardsmen
I am completely fine with Female Custodians... but this is such a childish engagement on why people are upset or might be upset about this? You didn't even bother to sit down and think, what viable reasons, might there be? You are doing what Jay literally called out in his comments. You are completely not engaging with how this could be an issue or upset some people.
Yeah, we dont, but GW is all too eager to make it woke. Just yesterday I saw a nonbinary custodes in a Heresy book. What will they think of next? Who knows.
This was funny to watch. Not to be reductive lol, but you're gripes are just that there are people who are not leftwing ideologues who enjoy Warhammer. Perhaps it's your deconstructive nature that is ruining the fun of the hobby.
@@iExploder What on earth are you talking about ha This crap has only been the last handful of years of people who found out about warhammer in 2020 and didnt like it all and wanted to change things and some people jumped onto it such as the sigmarxism clowns. Everything that isnt out and out leftist must be right wing right? 99% of people want no current day crap thrown into a damn game and hobby it really is that simple and for some reason that is seen as "right wing" ha
@@SubtleKnife Classic example of the right “not having da media literacy”. You know that Warhammer is satire of right wing conservative politics and religious zealotry right?
I 100% agree with EOB on the point that social media and the internet has made it so much harder to enjoy a property for what it is. Instead now, in many movies and games they bring polictics. And it so hard to avoid. In most cases i try to avoid it and form my own opinion. Rather than coming to vids such as this.
This entire conversation was such in bad faith. First PK you state how much you dislike the Warhammer community for complaining about every little thing only to proceed to do the exact same thing by talking about Arch, MTG, Henry Cavil, etc, you come off as a hypocrite and all without letting Eon speak.
There's a phenomenon around satire and irony where the issue is that what appears laughable or obviously terrible to one person seems reasonable and supportable to another. People took the Stephen Colbert character as an indictment of liberals rather than of conservative talk show hosts. Harry Enfield's "lotsamoney" character was lauded by Tories. I think in the case of 40K, the issue is more that a genuine satire doesn't work well for the mass marketing of toys you're supposed to identify with, and over time the lore has drifted from a depiction of an awful Fascist empire into the depicting of an awful Fascist empire that is necessary, and of course the goal of all fascist movements is to make the awful seem necessary. I don't think this was deliberate, but just the natural consequence of a company responding to its market incentives. Reversing course on that front will never happen.
First video I’ve seen from this channel but he seems quite negative / nasty in some of the comments replies I don’t think I’ll be watching any more it’s not for me
@@pkswarroom You are so rude to people in your comments and videos. Only toxic one I see here is you. Funny too because I agree with most of your points but you are just what is exactly wrong with this community that you so vehemently fight against.
Funny how when I do the same with the right wing hateblog consumers, I end up facing toxicity too. It's almost like this culture war nonsense should be kept out of the hobby no matter which side of it you personally like.
This is normally the part where someone says "but they've retconned stuff before!" I don't like that comment. it's lazy and short-sighted, because then you need to spend time trying to make them see that there's a pretty profound difference between "The Squats aren't actually dead, here's a whole new army!" and "oh, there were always girls, you just couldn't tell because their armour's the same and they never DID anything", and that conversation never finishes before they devolve into "YOU JUST HATE WOMENS!" It's all very routine, so I'm wondering why it hasn't happened yet.
@@HistoritorJimaldus "The squats got mostly eaten by a rampaging tyranid swarm and were basically on the verge of extinction. they've been away for a good seven hundred novels, recouping their losses and rebuilding an arsenal." I'm pretty sure that's the official story that came with the article and pictures of new squat units when they were shown. Now, let's examine the Legion of internet White Knights: For the past 700 novels they've done nothing notable. There isn't a single named femstodes that distinguished themselves in any way, shape or form ever. . . . Except one. AFTER a good few weeks of revealing the femstodes in the form of a presidential trump tweet, they made ONE piece of fiction about a femstodes, doing something that isn't actually technically possible: teleporting a nuke into the imperial palace, a location wherein teleportation is physically impossible. ONE of these revealed an entirely new army to the game with its own rules and tactics. The other one pandered to sooks like you. It changed nothing about the game, it did nothing for the lore, and it had to insert itself so desperately that it forgot the rules of its own worldbuilding. THAT is the difference: One changes something, the other pleases your wee dick. Now, ax bodyspray; Tell me I care too much or something else I've heard before.
Both warhammer IPs are the literal benchmark for modernization and change. As one who engaged with 40k verse in the early nineties, 40k and old timey warhammer is NOTHING like what I learned back then.
It wouldn’t be 10% as bad if GW didn’t do this completely lazy way. They could’ve easily expanded living saints trope into creating some custodies-tier warriors “To aid humanity in time of dire need”. I stead they choose taking a dump on an entire 30 years of lore, and calling anyone who disagrees an “alt right troll”
I feel like it's really honoring the 30 years of Custodes lore. First they didn't exist, until the suddenly had always existed but were shirtless dudes in leather pants. Then, just as suddenly, they weren't normal buff guys but had always been 10ft genecrafted super warriors. Honestly, this is a pretty small change by comparison
30 years? Most of 40k history custodes were like one paragraph of text in the rulebook. It was only around 2017 when they became a playable army in Horus Heresy and 40k when we got some real insight into them. As a real faction, they are still new.
There's nothing toxic about not wanting to see something that I enjoy being reduced to bland progressive panderslop to plavate people who have no real interest in 40k
@@drigoleus1055 If those girls don't respect the hobby and want it changed just so they can exercise control and revel in power dynamics and culture warfare to push an agenda, then yes. Absolutely. But it's not girls, it's people like you.
@@drigoleus1055 No one is telling women they can't play and many do my LGS. I'd say 5/6 of the women there would rather they not f**k with the lore and 2 will point out "my guard army has females" and "I play sisters of battle".
@@imadequate3376 when most armies are made of blokes an full of dudes some with some odd view on girls it is a bit harder Many of my friends liked the custodes change and they want if the marines could be same The problem with having SoB as the "girls" army is that while SoB rock with their chatolic style it's not for everyone For my friends who would prefer a army with a more flexible style like SM she would love that
I think people make a mountain out of a mole hill over it just to content farm/ rage bait. I have never seen a thing brought up in this 1 and a half hour video actually happen in real life.
You sound exactly like the kind of person that played the hell out of Concord for the two weeks it was in existence, thinking it's version of representation and awful character design was the best thing ever, then got surprised when it was cancelled, completely unaware that the Vast Majority of people don't believe the same thing you do. The Videogame industry is hitting critical mass right now and on the verge of a second crash like what happened in the 80's. People are ticked off about Dragon Age and Assassin's Creed Shadows. Players are done. The same is true for Warhammer but it's still in its earliest stages. Female Custodes is just the very first in a long line of future lore changes, all for the sake of inclusivity, that will ultimately lead to Games Workshop's closure while people like you will sit by and make up every reason on earth for why Warhammer somehow failed while being unable to see the obvious reason. Just looking at your replies in the comments, you made up some pretty crazy stuff to justify the female custodes and it's kind of weird...
@@Mr_J1984 It's true. We let one Nazi into Warhammer and all of a sudden they decided to bring their modern culture war hate-politics into the hobby. Oh wait, that's not the narrative you've been told to believe?
@@HistoritorJimaldus bold of you to assume my politics or how I found the video. You seem salty perhaps you need a different hobby than internet activism
Malcador smiled. ‘You brothers - such a nest of rivalries. I warned him to make you sisters, that it would make things more civilised. He thought I was joking. I wasn’t.’
@@CastellanofCrowes Considering it was the Emperors female version who sent the Primarchs off when they were kids, and was responsible for the Heresy happening, and at the least all the bad things that happened to Angron.
Consider the bright side: at least they didn't go the same way that BIGGER youtubers seem to . . . Unless someone want's to tell the feds to check their hard drives, that is.
I remember a lot of the non influencer part of the community talking out about female custodes, really just didnt like the way they "retconned" in. If GW had done a better job of stepping them in, even though the potential was alway present, I doubt there would have been as loud of a backlash. ultimatly the majority seemed to move on quickly enough, leaving just the loudest minority to yell into an echo chamber.
@@LordMagiru i understand if they publicly announced lore changes and the reasons, but in fact, all that happened brutally, unforgivingly, and because of Blackrock investment. And they really like to fund DEI trash. All of WH40K wiki pages were rewritten within 2 days, all "Brotherhoods" and "Sons" vanished. Silently and relentlessly. Also, the way moderators of WH40K subreddit started to purge and ban EVERYONE who complained is insane. No freedom of speech or thought. This is literally 1984 and the definition of Libtards abusing their power to fuel their agenda that is being shoved down our thoroats. And do I have to remind you that that female Custodes is a crazy bitch that tried to teleport a bomb into Emperor's Palace? She didnt do it just because a male captain of that spaceship stopped her.
True, but the fact I saw a guy going through insane mental gymnastics just to assume the female custodian was trans and got mad about the pronouns. He got mad about a non-existant trans characters pronouns. And I've been crusading against those people ever since. The fact that this controversy has been used to foster hatred for people who are already unfairly hated and even murdered just for being pissed me off and drives me to try to halt it as well as I can. I believe the Lamenters would do the same. FOR THOSE WE CHERISH! ❣️
Exactly. The retcon isn't what I had an issue with, it was the "they've always been women" line. Just slapping a footnote in a warcom article acknowledging the change, even if said they genuinely didn't consider it a retcon would have prevented the dumpster catching on fire.
Should we have Brothers of Battle? Brothers of Silence? I don't think its really an issue to have groups of females, and groups of males, and then groups that are mixed in the lore. Why are the tourists so against something like that, and have to have everything mixed?
Because they're tourists. They don't complain about the Leagues of Votann being all male, and they don't care about that because Votann aren't in much of the media.
I really don't like this argument, because it implies that if someone was ok with breaking the lore of other factions, it would also be acceptable in this case. The argument is much stronger when you can lay out why their position is bad without giving them the out of other things they probably agree with.
@@IVIaskerade You do not need to. They lack most frontal cortex functions. All you have to do is to point out their hypocrisy and the common man will laugh them off. More brain power wasted on them, is just wasted power.
Chud here. I'm not the problem, you are the problem. I'm happy to play with anyone who likes Warhammer for the hypermasculine fantasy that it is. I also don't go around demanding to be included in things that are not for me. "I feel Sex and the City could broaden it's appeal by including a 9 feet tall genocidal space racist character that murders someone every episode for offending his outlandish space religion.".
. . . Okay, I know you're using that as an example, but I genuinely believe that WOULD improve the writing and pacing of shows like "sex and the city" "And while Sandra was looking for love in all the wrong places, Brother Titaniclese was dealing with equal frustrations, PURGING THE MALIGNANT MUTANT FILTH FROM THE NEW YORK SUBWAYS! FOR THE EMPEROR! Some days just really don't go your way~"
@@kentonbaird1723 But that is the point. It would improve the show for us, but the show isn't for us and it doesn't need to be. Ask a Sex and the City fan what they think of my idea. I'm sure they're chuffed about it.
It’s a hobby not a ‘hyper masculine fantasy’ 🤦♂️ play a Slaanesh army then tell me how hyper masculine it is😂 the lore is a satire of fascism amongst other things
@@HistoritorJimaldus I love seeing clowns who barely know how to spell Fascism trying to lecture people about what is a satire of it or not. Tell me clown-boy what is the main pillars of Fascism? What is its core idea?
Bad apples don't spoil the community. When you go to an actual FLGS (Friendly Local Gaming Store) you don't see toxicity, you see communities and people wanting to play games and talk about something they love.
We spoke about this a little when talking about "have you ever had a 4chan experience in RL". For the most part, the stores I play in and events I travel to are a good time. 100%
I really like Eons of Battle. I've seen every single one of his videos. He's not someone I care to take ethical/moral advice from, though. I think he would agree lol. Never heard of this PK guy but he seems super toxic. Take a look at his comments here. All are aggressive and lack in nuance or tact. Same seems to go for his videos. One can only hope these elements of the community are diminished as time goes on. All we can do is speak against negativity, and hope people like PK improve themselves.
34:00 because we see what that nonsense has done to every other hobby community. This is not the venue for that stuff. Warhammer doesn't draw on modern politics or cultural issues. Warhammer fantasy/40k has always pulled from historical parallels so that factions can mentally click with people to understand their esthetic. Adding modern nonsense to the setting will see the hobby lose its soul.
@@iExploderNo, but more needs to be done to emphasize that the Imperium are not the “good guys”. In older editions they made it really clear that life in the Imperium absolutely sucked, and it was bleak, horrible and oftentimes short. Hive Worlds, manufactorums, and just the way the Imperium treated human life as cheap resources to further its barbarism was highlighted (or even showcased in-game with things like Necromunda). Now a lot of it is kinda glamorized after Guillemon and Lion’El returning and that element of grimdark in the setting has been slowly lost over the years. i guarantee that there would not be the same push for inclusivity and left-leaning ideals towards Imperium forces from progs if the Imperium was represented as the soulless meatgrinder/bloated, dying institution that it was in previous editions, because its existence is antithetical to those ideals. Y’all would be playing Orks and Tau instead.
@@iExploder Yes, if one of the writers suddenly started having Guilliman go "build the wall, let's make the imperium great again!" or people tried to claim parallels between tyranids and immigrants that would also be stupid and bad for the game.
Warhammer 40,000 has been about masculine fantasys for a really long time. GW clearly want to change that. Not saying thats wrong but is clearly whats happening. People are aloud to be upset about that. It is what it is...
@@HistoritorJimaldus For the same reason sex and the city would be a different show if some of the main 4 characters where men. Look I'm not against the change at all. But it's hard to deny that 40k was about men and ultra masculinity in the past and its not now. No bad thing but its definitely a change. I'm all for it but I can also see why some people wouldn't be so much and yeah some of those people are sexists but some aren't.
Lmao I’ve seen TOXIC and it most definitely ain’t the people mad about lore chief 😂 tbh imma do the same thing I did with Star Wars and pretend the sequel films(or in this case femstodes) just didn’t happen 🤷♂️
No, we're not going to take a shitty retcon while laying down. If they gave a even halfway decent reason in the lore, we would have been fine with it. We have been saying that from the beginning. But we're being called sexist and pushed back. All we want is lore. My wife even has an issue with female custodes for the exact same reason. "What if cawl while working on primaries was able to alter the gene seed to accept a female recipient, allowing more soldiers to fight, to explain how they can push back against the impossible odds that have been set against them now. Boom, we have females in the lore and it would make sense. Not just that they were there but never mattered."
Retcons have always been a thing in 40k, for example the whole "Primarch" debacle. But we don't see you malding about those now do we? And it makes no difference that there's women in the Custodes line. Name me 1 reason this affects the army at all in the grand scheme of things
If you want to have a conversation then why do you belittle the people in the hobby that see the progression differently then you do and do not agree with you everything fine attitude. From the others perspective you are both actually the ones who are just in it for the painting side and the rules side of the hobby you seem to couldn't care less if the Salamanders would turn traitor tomorrow and fallow slaanesh or some completely whack thing
They would care considerably, however, if the salamanders weren't black (even though they aren't black the same way humans are, they're literally coal-black because of their manufacture process).
It's honestly kinda entertaining how Jay comes off as a gamer in the purest sense while PK unironicly uses shit like "fasci" and refers to himself as an influencer while spewing lefty social war 101 BS from a decade ago. Jay reminds me of one of my closest hobby friends who holds a similar position, for him it's like going to the pub with friends and changing the lore is the equivalent of changing the logo of his favorite beer. Who gives a fuck if it tastes the same and gets you drunk. Those aren't the people who try to poison the hobby for some fucked up ideologies they hold. Those aren't the people who'll shove LGBT down your throat just for the attention. Just chill guys who want to spend time with friends and roll dice. Meanwhile PK is going on rants with Jay going "yeah" like he just wants to go back to painting the new Shatterpoint squad
Honestly, GW's F/U where the Custodes women are concerned, is claiming they were always there when all the established lore never mentioned them. It would've been far better for them to say, "The Imperium has figured out how to make the gene mods work for the daughters of the nobility, and now they are being introduced into the ranks." There would have been grumblers, there always are, but any "backlash" would be next to nil by comparison.
Or even "it always _could_ have been women, but given their role as glorified palace guards it was only men until Guilliman wanted them sent out so they had to break with tradition and expand their recruitment" If you absolutely _have_ to do femstodes, that's the way to do it.
Imagine seeing people passionate about their hobbies and thinking its toxic because they dont want the setting watered down to appease people who dont care about the game or lore?
Non Jay guy, I think you Dropbox the Ball hard on insulting people and then calling Guilliman a Nazi. You're bringing your own stuf to the same level the people you are criticizing. If you don't like the core thing of this world, leave it be and keep moving. This is not only satire, this is intellectual property that you can like or not, but do not claim the high ground when you are down on the mud
I love 40k and the Heresy. But Guiliman is literally Nazi coded in First Heretic. "Just following orders bro" he says, after doing a genocide. That's not a value judgement you need to be offended by. Hell, its not even subtext - its overt and purposeful.
Part of the toxicity in the community is calling everyone who thinks shoving “inclusivity” into every aspect of something is not good - a far right grifter/extremist. People just have different lines of what makes sense for changes with the extensive amount of existing lore, and to hand wave any disagreement as -phobic is the exact opposite extreme of what you’re complaining about. For example, the sisters of battle aren’t very inclusive to men. Should we change it to “Soldiers of Battle” and have half of them men? Why does the emperor need to be a man, can’t he be a woman now? Why not?
It's a complicated topic, but there's a growing part of me that wishes GW would just go back to taking the lore a lot less seriously. I think that would alleviate some of these problems considerably even if it would piss off a lot of the lore nerds. I'd also add that the modern sacredness of the lore makes the game and model releases a lot less interesting and is really hurting the tabletop game. But I also understand GW not wanting to rock the boat. The setting/lore got 40k where it is popularity-wise, so they're in an odd spot with it.
@@JoshStoobs...none of these words actually *mean* anything to you, do they...you're going to toss around "Marxist" next, and it too will mean "this is baaaad" or "you're a stupid poopyhead"...WTFIWWY...
To be fair, the reason the 2 Keepers of Secrets are AoS exclusive, is that their entire existence is based on the fact that Slaanesh is imprisoned in AoS. It would be the equivalent of Kharn the betrayer being in AoS.
Disclaimer: this episode is very late to air - having been recorded over two weeks ago. This was due in part to sickness, a busy schedule, personal stuff and a small dose of laziness towards the end. Regardless, I hope y'all enjoy the episode!
The Reason a female Custodes is bullshit is because my Salamanders Chapter Master does not lose to someone who has less testosterone then he does. That is toxic to my headcanon.
...? You complained about the state of modern games while saying the games are fine? Like, you said it in a second after that. What are... you talking about?
Bro your currently sitting at a 355 likes to 978 dislike ratio. Pipe down.
We did not in fact enjoy this episode
@@Smokescreen568He's also sitting at 10k views after just one day which is more than many of his previous uploads. Let's be honest though, most of those dislikes aren't regular watchers and are just linked here from certain communities to be little culture war manchildren.
Weird take on Cavill, just assuming that he's latched onto 40k because it seems like an untapped goldmine, when he's talked about how he's been into it since he was 10 and nearly missed the casting call for Superman because he was playing WOW. People don't like him cos they're weird Snyder shills, they like him because he seems like he's genuinely a nerd with actual nerdy interests.
What do facts matter to a narrative?
I expect they'd say Cavill is lying about his fandom to appeal to an audience.
The dude saw the obvious blackstone fortress chandelier for what it was in the witcher series...
The dude is simply a buffed nerd
You can love an untapped goldmine. And 40k is potentially a freaking goldmine if brought to the masses. Nothing like it exists.
@@macbodyof course ironically if the likes of PK and his ilk get their way, it'll be a tapped out coal mine of a generic American sci-fi setting before it has the chance to actually hit a mainstream audience.
@@macbody Which is why it must be protected from normies and tourists like PK who want to infect it with gay shit.
Wait, what? who da thunk it, people who like masculine things such as brotherhood & stoicism are attracted by a faction that portrays such things. Now the real question is why do people find that toxic? I don't.
Stoicks are always wacky incels, always. Why? I don't know, it's simply is. Also they are representing more forces of opression.
@@cegesh1459 You went straight to incels :absolute plonker :D
When you only give the AI the title and not the script of the video
those are such a surface read of the setting, and not at all what people are calling toxic.
@@Zach-si1gf People are drawn towards factions, armies, characters and settings for numerous reasons. But let me guess, you think it's all down to Space Fascism.
I think the toxic people are actually the ones who get into a hobby just to want to change everything about it.
The people making Female Custodes aren't new to the hobby mate. lmao
@@pkswarroom They are nonetheless extremely disrespectful to the established lore. Also, if it is done to appease the TV series overlords at Amazon than it is change done for new audience that do not care about Warhammer and just want to change it.
@@pkswarroomyou’re in denial. Sad watching someone not see reality.
@pkswarroom yeah, they are. They're literally tourists that don't care about established lore that has been set in stone for over 30 years.
Plus they already have an entire Sisters of Battle and Sisters of Silence dedicated to them, amongst other things like mixed gender eldar, and strong female leaders for eldar and tau
When I go play IRL the people I find there are, almost without exception, super-welcoming to women wanting to play. GW introduce female Custodes and suddenly I'm told by UA-camrs and various commenters online that the hobby is full of toxic individuals who hate women.
I do feel the people calling anyone with an issue with such a change misogynists and women-haters, do more to put women off the hobby than anyone. The women who play know it's rubbish, the women that don't play but wanted to are told the fanbase is toxic and so are put off.
I hate this female Custodes rubbish, but I and those like me were the ones constantly pleading for plastic Sisters of Battle, I kept saying they should make female Imperial Guard heads and sell them seperately, since the bodies didn't need to change. But when it goes against lore and I complain, I'm toxic and a monster.
The thing is the people who cause the problems don't even play the game. Most of the people who play the game are fine it's the lore only fans who've never touched a mini in their lives and just yell about Warhammer online who are the unbearable tools.
UA-camrs didn’t invent the issue, the crying and whining was all over Reddit when it was announced that there were lady custodes.
There are some genuine far-right chud woman-haters, a small minority, you can see them online calling for Warhammer to be a male-only hobby - but they rarely make their views public in actual games club because they know they’d be thrown out.
Also, introducing female Custodes has brought exactly zero women into the hobby. No woman who was not already down with playing toy soldiers is going to care about the imaginary lore changing to include them.
Warhammer has a toxic problem. But it certainly isn't the chuds.
The custody issue would be far less of an issue if GW was halfway decent at writing lore. "Always been there" was absolutely ridiculous
Always been there isn’t how it was introduced. The Codex is how it was introduced. But because people leaked bits of it, people mistakenly see the Twitter post as the way GW introduced FemStodes.
@@gorgrum you know they're "bad" at writing the lore on purpose right? Because the Product is designed to allow the players to tell stories they want and get creative (its made for the people who aren't just purely consuming lore told to them by other people as their hobby experience.)
@@CmdrPinkiePie that's not the issue, the codex dropping a big retcon unceremoniously isn't great, but to gaslight the fans who ask about it is objectively poor customer communication.
@@PlanetTrendy its a retcon you are not being gaslit stop acting like a victim.
@@PlanetTrendyit’s not gaslighting, it’s updating a fictional universe they own the rights to.
That thumbnail is a powerful level of cringe.
It's changed a few times it seems.
Ikr, id say using the word "chud" is pretty find toxic.
Soyfaces
These are the people calling Henry Cavil a Chud
The only toxic part of the hobby I've run into are GW's anti-consumer practices.
TRUTH
Yup. It's not left or right; it's neoliberal.
@@iExploderNeoliberalism Is right wing. The left opposes neoliberalism. (The democrats are not left wing they're right wing).
And the reactionaries. Their mere presence is toxic.
@@salsicha5305But please vote that direction all the same, given the lack of viable alternative and the sheer stakes involved.
don't mind me just here to watch the like/dislike bar ratio
What's it at now? 🎉
@@clon1122 80% negative, btw you can get a chrome extension "return youtube dislike bar" or smt I forget to show for yourself
@@clon1122 376 likes/940 dislikes lol
@@Micmag- 400/1.1k
@@QTwoSix Good!
The amount of time and effort and MONEY that Warhammer requires these days compared to just a few years ago, will continue to spawn people who are heavily invested in the hobby and the lore and the game respectively. People who have invested lots of time and money into these things will take them seriously, and people who take them seriously will be quick to become hostile changes they don't like.
If GW has a problem with their fan base, they should maybe consider charging a lot less money and maybe people won't take their decisions personally.
Games Workshop charge too much. Won't argue with that.
But that doesn't give a free pass to insane toxicity, often from the fans who aren't actually buying the models or playing.
@@pkswarroomso, you mean the "vokies", right?
@@pkswarroom So you're talking about the wokoids, yeah? Right? RIGHT?
Nah you're talking about everyone who isn't a gay commie like you lol
@@AlexAlex-zt3hi Terminally online people don´t pay to watch TV shows, go to the movies, buy video games and they certainly aren't putting in the time and money investment that comes with expensive tabletop miniatures games. Those people are by definition not fans.
@@pkswarroomNever thought that disagreeing with people is called “being toxic”.
Most people get pissed at retcons when they're lazy and add nothing of value to the narrative. It has nothing to do with 'toxicity' or whatever -ism pejorative you want to throw their way. Plenty of people still don't like the whole 'primaris' storyline because it was a transparent attempt to sell more models rather than doing anything compelling to move things forwards. Changes like the Necron backstory at least worked to differentiate them as a faction rather than basically being metal tyranids, but you'll find plenty of longtime players who still aren't happy with that.
Why do you want to feel more represented in the war machine of what is basically a theocratic, authoritarian super-state that considers individual human lives insignificant and wholly expendable anyway? Seems like the point of the setting is kinda that you should not want a self-insert power-fantasy to be supporting such a regime, no?
It's very telling that the people against the changes tend to think like authors, who see their characters as separate from themselves, whereas the representation crowd seem to literally identify with the characters.
@@IVIaskeradeyeah it’s the blue hair crowd trying to self-insert into 40k.
"add nothing of value to the narrative" is fucking insane when referring to the inclusion of women. Tells everyone instantly what kind of a loser is talking.
Idk man I think adding female custodes and space marines adds at least a bit and don't remove anything. Sure it isn't revolutionary or anything but it's fun to have more options to be creative. I'm not the biggest fan of primaris truth be told, but if doing stuff to sell more toys is your issue then your problem is with capitalism.
@@IVIaskeradeoh yeah that's why people against changes are super fine with playing female characters. If you see them as a separate character then it shouldn't be an issue right? I'm not a dude and I play space marines. Why couldn't a dude play female custodes then?
and its Thunderwarrior not Fire Warrior ....
"Lovers of Warhammer" But they can't get a basic name of one of the trans-humans within the series right.
Two tourists yapping for one and half hours. Not bothering to watch this whole farce. Just came to leave a dislike and read comments. :D
@@lazaruslong697i would not call eob a tourist not by a longshot, but this pk guy definitely
I’m a female 40K player. I play orks, dark angels with an interest in guard. It is the lore players not the competitive ones in my store that have an issue. However, to say that they’re inherently bad is wrong, and people need to get out of their heads and into an flgs to paint or play with others.
Also, 40K is a very male hobby, with maybe 1-2% of players at champions cup 444 registered players last weekend) being female. If you don’t have people in the room, it’s a lot easier to demonize them
with the female custodies I dislike it not because its a woman I didn't care when it was first announced I dislike it due to the fact that it was only done because amazon wanted more inclusivity in their show
That's a lie made up by rage bait UA-camrs.
And GW went even further introducing an NB custodes in the newest Heresy book
@@Brandelwyn name pls? I want to read it no :)
@@ilmiraculousdibill3686 Horus Heresy - the Martian Civil War. Custodian captain Arcas.
@@pkswarroom So claims the rage bait UA-camr.
The biggest issue is that people have forgotten how to discuss. If someone has a different opinion, people just insult. Not just in our community, the world as a whole
It's impossible to have a discussion with people that want to vote you out of existence. The stakes have never been higher for millions of people.
@@sagethevvitch What do you mean by that?
@@matavelhosTKOK I assume it's because unfortunately a pretty big portion of the fanbase is straight up fascist and keep saying stuff like "we need to put people like you in a insane asylum" to gay people, trans people and similar stuff to Jews.
I left "The Imperium Of Man" on Facebook to avoid the constant stream of hate-mongering and borderline (if not straight up) Nazi-ism.
It's like when they made female custodes canon the mods banned the people displaying anything but extreme hatred for the retcon, letting the most hateful run rampant unopposed.
And apparently that Facebook group is considered "woke" by some other Facebook group.
Fortunately better groups have been made where people can atleast be reasonable.
@@matavelhosTKOK They have no idea, they're just regurgitating the talking points they have ingrained into their mind from Reddit.
@@thatoneoctopus7494 Oh no, we do have an idea. It wasn't the right wingers who killed any and all discussion by calling their opposition "Nazis".
There is a problem with certain people that can't stand others having hobbies.
Yeppers, the social justice crew can't stand other people doing things that don't include them. It erodes their power structure and they can't have that.
Who hurt you? Like who actually told you that you couldn’t have a hobby?
@@bradleyjones6754 Well, it's a natural outcome. If people join the hobby and change the hobby, then it's no longer your hobby.
For example, let's say you're baking a pie, and you have all your ingredients, then someone comes in and goes "no, you can't have pie pastry, use this sheep skin as a bottom crust" are you still baking in the way you originally liked?
That's the problem. People joining a hobby should be for the hobby's qualities, not to change it to suit them. If they want something that suits them, they can create it or find it themselves.
@@Rundvelt - Great. I've been in this hobby for 25 years. Nazi grifters who want to turn this hobby into a recruiting ground can fuck right off. Keep ALL politics out of the hobby, not just leftist ones.
Yea, this conversation is all in bad faith.
Targeting one side of the drama when both have issues. The entirety of this political agenda on either side is the reason why newcomers dont wanna interact online.
Both sides have a point. Keeping the artistic and thematic integrity within media is very important. I have no stake in the Custodes thing but Space Marines are all about being a brotherhood and invoking that sense of it between them. It literally isnt written for any other gender.
The other side asking for inclusivity is right that it's good to have it BUT there has and is inclusion within 40k and the people who say there isn't or want a faction to change it's uniqueness for that aren't actually fans. They're just there to flock to what's popular to jump to at the time.
The so called "Chuds" yea i do see some racism and sexism from fans but yet like stated before. A loud minority that doesnt need to be in the community. Hell, the "Soys" have done just as bad. Get those ones out too.
Moving on. Most of the debate I see isn't even coming from women and other minorities.
It's usually white men such as yourselves or men in general seeking some sort of moral superiority complex.
Other than that, maybe start thinking of things from different angles and deeper avenues than such surface level issues.
You rolled sixes to hit AND wound with this one. Good shit.
@@JoeFixit-v5f Thank you. I am sick of this debate in the 40k. Both of them are annoying and need to sort through shit.
@@thatoneoctopus7494 Appreciate it, friend. This debate has gone on long enough.
The levels of bad faith in this debate are epic. People need to get their politics the hell out of the hobby.
@@danielc-s8056 It ain't politics.. its simply decency, and tolerance.
Maybe I like my 40k as the grimdark setting that it was before it was discovered by leftist fandom tourists. It’s *supposed* to be a horrible, nightmarish and oppressive world where hope is about as sweet as tasting water from the Dead Sea. Everyone who seems to be hopping on board saying the fandom that already existed are ‘chuds’ or ‘right-wing extremists’ always tend to take up the idea that 40k needs fixing of some kind. As it turns out, that fixing happens to be the aim of turning everything into a monolith to progressivism, liberal sensibilities and identity politics. Which completely goes against the premise of 40k, everything it’s supposed to be, and totally throws out any concept of it being okay to enjoy a hobby that just has a very dark and oppressive fictional setting. If people *didnt* like themes like that, they’d move on instead of constantly attempting to derail everything that Warhammer 40,000 has come to be primarily known for. Even the premise quote is clear as day for anyone to read as an introduction to the setting; Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war.
Of course though, to a leftist mindset, this whole premise and ideology is an element that needs to be removed and replaced with progressivism. And of course, every time there’s a push for it, there’s push back from the actual fans who enjoy it as it is. The bottom line being if you don’t enjoy the verses’ world setting then move on to something else. It’s as simple as.
40k literally starts with the line "forget the idea of progress" and here they are, arguing that the fascist hellstate founded on extreme xenophobia should be accepting of alternative life choices because that's just common sense.
@@sethwoll6240 amazing strawmanning - Warhammer was created by leftists 😂
@@HistoritorJimaldus And your point? Where's the strawman even? Everything I included about modern liberal sensibilities being pushed to be injected into the setting of 40k is evident.
@@HistoritorJimaldus These people ignore the actual lore while whining that the DEI bogeywoman is tampering with the lore.
@@HistoritorJimaldusyeah and its comical how they tried to make something satirical but it was actually just based af, and now its successful they have to pretend it was always straight laced while they mald and seethe for eternity inside 😂
For those curious, as of right now this video has a 2.17/5 rating (469:1122 ratio).
Brigading is a thing, it’s not proof of anything
@@HistoritorJimaldus “when a right-wing grifter gives a bad take and gets trashed with dislikes, they got ratio’d. But when a left-wing grifter gets bodied by dislikes, it’s BRIGADING!” 😂
@@redacted5985 This , this , so much this. thank you for saying it. I bet hed reply to you that he wasn't ratioed he was noted. keep up the good work.
@@redacted5985 The hypocrisy sounds about right.
You made me remember when UA-cam had 5 star ratings instead of a like/dislike bar. Oh such simpler times.
The vocal 1% thinks theyre the target audience again - How'd it go for your game Concord? Oh thats right.
Well for stuff like baldur's gate is going great
How isn't that a woke game as well?
@@drigoleus1055 Because the "woke" stuff in that game is entirely optional, save for the gay vampire bear sex scene I think. I don't think any rational person would have a problem with a game having the options for homosexual relationships with the player character so long as it were, again, *optional*. Just as it would be for straight relationships with the player character
@@thatoneoctopus7494 define woke to me please
As well other games like starfield were insulted for the same things that baldur's gate
Of course you guys only cherry pick any failure while ignoring the many other successful "woke" media
@@drigoleus1055 Concord and Dustborn are textbook definitions of what "woke" is, there's your answer. Remind me how those games are doing again? Lol.
@@thatoneoctopus7494 can you define woke more specifically than just saying "that thing I been told is bad"
As well I can remind you of many "woke" media that has done great like baldur's gate, Overwatch and apex legends, the Barbie movie, guilty gear, Elden ring and Bloodborne, transformers comics, the Mario movie
How aren't those woke?
Granted, there are people in this hobby that are complete morons or worse. People that are allergic to new ideas, some that have horrible ideals and others that should get out of the hobby if they don't like it anymore (nostalgia is a powerful drug though).
With all that being said, I feel like you brush aside a lot of the valid criticism that people (not just "toxic fans") have made regarding some decisions made by GW. Concerning the Female Custodes, you can't deny that just coming out of the blue with a "There are always been female custodes" when the lore referenced them as "The Golden Brotherhood" (7th edition codex) is at the very least a bit weird, and a big missed opportunity for GW to do something grand instead of just...leaving it here and being like "That? Oh yeah it's always been here, you've just been blind. Now buy our new book!" when it clearly wasn't. I think that if GW had done the proper work to introduce them, nobody in their right mind would have had a problem with that.
For example, GW could have said something "the brotherhood lost too many members, and so the process was refined until daughters of Terra's noble houses could join their ranks!". Anything to make it look less half-assed than a single line in an overpriced book.
Now, Warhammer lore is not...perfect by any means, far from it. But people that get invested in it want things to make sense in-universe and for GW to do at least some effort to write it (even though they often mess it up). Otherwise, what's the point in being invested in the lore as a fan? And when you get into a hobby, it's generally so you can take a break from the real world stuff. You know 40k is not a representation of our world (although some people seem to think it is or it should be), even if it takes inspiration from it. So when your hobby, your "space stuff with aliens, super soldiers and eldritch horrors where everything is grim and dark" starts to look more and more like the real world, is it you who have changed or is it the setting?
So true. Custodes having always had women in their ranks makes the emperor so much less gay. Huge loss, terrible Lo
No I want my all boys club to be oiled up and sexy supermen!!!! No women allowed GAY SEX ONLY!!!
@@dead-delver I will never be able to visualize the Emperor as Billy Herrington ever again. My day is ruined and my gachi defeated.
for many sad, sad people, femstodes breaks their whole immersion of the setting. Ah, GW has been invaded by wokeness and DEI, screw all justifications for it, they just KNOW its forced representation, so its bad by default no matter the in-universe reason.
Which, barely exists to be fair. GW fucked up. But I'm not gonna sympathise with bigots scared of cooties.
The problem with this line of argument is that its never made when new Vehicles are introduced, or characters like Belasarius Cawl.
The Rogal Dorn has always been there too.
It's a really poisoned idea intellectualy have every retcon needs novels and novels of shit hand waiving exposition to explain.
The Primaris update was not good writing, literature or "lore" - it was stupid hand wavey nonsense to explain new toys.
Often, we can suspend our disbelief to see a new development get retroactively added to a deep canon with alot of history. However, when people wanted to keep the game with less women in it, they weren't willing to let this "it's always been there" slide this one time.
I beg them not to write big or small changes into dramatised novelisations if the change just makes sense anyway.
The Imperiums armoury will grow retroactively to suit the growth of the toys. And custodes having women in them males perfect sense both thematically and in terms of growing with a changing media and political landscape.
In short, no - they didn't need to write some bad novel to explain what amounts to a minor canonical change.
Firstly I'd like to congratulate you both on discovering confirmation bias. It is present in your audiences just the same as in you, or all of us.
Secondly I soundly reject your insinuation that just because the hobbyists of yesteryear got old they became bitter chuds. I don't think the sensibilities of a lot of people (myself included) changed overnight in relation to Warhammer. I think it is far more likely that those sensibilities remained constant while the bad practices became more pronounced with every new iteration of the game.
Warhammer doesn't have a toxic fanbase problem. It has a problem with people flocking to it because it is popular but disliking/hating aspects of the setting and wanting to change it to represent their present day convictions. Pushing for changes because of diversity, equity and inclusivity is such a thing. They break verisimilitude, the illusion of disbelief, with the expressed goal of changing something fun and unique to the very same grey slop that is soundly rejected by every audience in entertainment.
Having women be comfortable in your game isn't the insidious enemy you have been led to believe.
Take a moment to self examine.
@@pkswarroom Women were comfortable before self-appointed busybodies like your good self came in and started explaining to them how they should participate the correct way. I know, I met many in the various gamestores and clubs over the years.
By the way what made you think of 'women' from my reply? I never mentioned them in any capacity and here you are, grandstanding over imagined slights.
So let me be crystal clear: the problem is YOU and your kind. "Concent creators" looking for the next popular thing to attach themselves to. Effete "men" too afraid to form their own opinions and like things that others might dislike. Consoomers ready to eat up the latest slop just to have the semblance of a personality. You are the toxic part of any hobby you claim to participate in because you enable the worst excesses to monetize your fleeting interests.
@@pkswarroomYeah, 40K. The universe famous for lack of women 😂
@@pkswarroomyou’re grifter, simple as. Women don’t give a single F about femstodes.
@@MyEternalRewardRight? way to erase like half of the Tyranid players I know lmfao
Is it a toxic behavior wanting your hobby and passion to be free from political agendas especially the agendas that come from way more toxic communities, groups and organizations than even your fandom that is consider "toxic"?
Warhammer has always been political. Only the ignorant and the stupid think otherwise.
@@pkswarroomExample?
@@pkswarroom you could say that probally about any sci fi universe that it is political. Some more some less but all of them are inclusive and diverse. People who force on others that their universe isn't inclusive and diverse enough never even read or watch a single thing about that universe. People love Warhammer because it is what it is, a dark xenophobic universe without political or cultural correctness. We just don't want all that woke bull*hit in Warhammer.
Hear hear!
@@konradfat Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka, yeah nothing political there...
Heinrich Kemmler, the Lichmaster? Yeah not a reference to anything political at all...
Warhammer has been doing great for decades before anyone said "woke" or "Chud". I don't think we have a "Chud" problem I think we have a problem with people spending too much time on Internet culture war arguments dragging it into the game store. On both sides.
Get off the fence and stand for something.
@@pkswarroom Oh no, nuance... That won't do at all!
@@pkswarroom BAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA SEETHE
@@pkswarroom I stand against people like you who want to insert their current year politics into my hobby.
@@pkswarroom Congrats, you proved him correct.
It's not about you can't add this or that. If it fits then fine. It's more we've seen what happens before.
Add stuff to be inclusive.... Then complain stuff is said space is offensive..... Then go after anyone who liked the old stuff and as we're seeing now "it's not made for you , just make your own stuff( which it was to begin with )
If you don't like something about a ip find parts of it you do. Or find another ip. Don't piss and moan to get it changed .
You'd not complain that my little pony doesn't have death robots or go into McDonald's and demand they sell TVs
They made their own stuff. It’s called Concord, an award-winning game, Sony’s next big thing.
@@exginto8053 I prefer Baldirs Gate 3.
That also goes the other way around.
If the ip changes then it changes.
Complaining incessantly doesn't bring joy.
@@shonklebonkle324 Ah yes, change is good because change. Never ever complain if change is actually bad. Just consoom.
You are part of why hobbies are getting worse and worse.
Female custodes fits fine, makes perfect sense
It’s not that inclusivity is bad, it’s that it already existed, it’s been in warhammer for a long time. There are male only factions like space marines, and female only factions like the adepta sororitas, and then factions of any race or gender or whatever way you want to categorize them. Going and saying “oh yeah this was always a thing we just decided to never mention it until now, time for a complete 180” and it does nothing for anybody except the people who want to see their specific niche that they want represented in every corner of the universe. It’s inclusivity for the sake of saying “look we’re inclusive!” And it’s very disingenuous. It’s the same thing as if they had just put dudes in sororita power armor and said “oh yeah it’s always been this way.” Both sides of this argument have their own points, but just about everyone supporting female custodes sits in this giant Reddit echo chamber repeating “if you don’t like it you’re a fascist chud and we hate you” which is such a backwards way of thinking and makes me disappointed in all of you UA-camrs and streamers. You don’t have to be a right winger to disagree with a lore retcon in warhammer. Calling people grifters and chuds, making snappy little remarks, gives off such a gross vibe and I’m disappointed to see so many vitriolic reactions towards everyone that disagrees with the decision. And yes, there are absolutely people who say some awful, horrible things, and should not be in this hobby, but they exist on both sides man.
The only female factions were either nuns or silent and soulless - with no genhanced females. Meanwhile the coolest and most popular twelve factions are all male-only space marine factions. Custodes being mixed is an excellent way to rebalance without doing FSM, and makes total lore sense
I've seen way more misogyny from the "step on me mommy awooga awooga" crowd who were supporting femstodes than from the "no thanks, I preferred them as they were" crowd who makes up the bulk of the people opposed to them.
@@HistoritorJimaldus"12 space marine factions."
"Rebalance without FSM."
40k is not about equity. It's a fantasy with a sci-fi setting, a detachment from reality.
It doesn't need to redistribute women to "rebalance" like a "redistribution of wealth." Women aren't an object or currency.
@@claymore1555nice strawman. So it’s not about realism or verisimilitude as other chuds were pretending then?
@@claymore1555 Then you shouldn't have a problem with them holding prominent positions in the lore.
The Fanbase has a tourist problem. Don't like the fanbase get out. Its that simple.
The fan base's tourist problem is both left and right. To claim that the right are the only rightful custodians of The Lore, over and above the people who actually wrote The Lore, is fucking hubris.
@@iExploder To change lore to just change lore is dumb. Give a real reason besides "They has always been "Insert whatever" is just dumb. If you want to change lore do it the right way. Not some half ass attempt to please people.
@@iExploder Good job inserting politics into the tourist issue, tourist.
@@iExploderThat's a pretty tourist thing to say.
Warhammer is for anybody not for everybody
@@ShadeTheArcade yeah, Nazis aren’t welcome, so o don’t know what all the arch fanboys are doing here
Warhammer is for anyone who wants to engage with Warhammer.
@ShadeTheArcade - Who isn't Warhammer for?
@@iExploder People who don't want to play Warhammer
@@iExploder people who don't like warhammer
The REAL question is "if my hobby is so problematic and evil, why do YOU want to join in on it? Why not go make your OWN hobby that isn't problematic?"
See...warhammer doesn't have a toxic fan base. We are passionate and we like the hobby the way it is, because thats why we got into it in the first place. Yes, the imperium is awful. I know that. The universe is grim dark. I know that too. Liking that fantasy universe isn't real world endorsement for xenophobia. Stop injecting your real world politics into my grim dark fantasy universe. The only toxic people are the toxic activists that are trying to change the hobby. They know they can't make their own hobby so they have to infect other hobbies. Talk about the real toxicity....because it aint the fandom that is toxic.
This is worded wonderfully. Thanks for expressing how many of us feel.
Its a hobby not your hobby. it exists with or without you. Individuals are are the ones making toxic not the game itself. Theres nothing wrong with female space marines and Orks are genderless. Instead of acting like its an attack on your identity, just focus on your own army and hush about what others wanna do with theirs.
@@ieatstheinternet as a member of the hobby, it’s very much my duty to gatekeep the hobby from weirdos and activists. You are clearly a toxic casual that is taking it personally. A kicked dogged barks. Go make your own hobby if this one is so problematic.
@@ieatstheinternet orks literally call themselves “boyz”. You are confusing sex and gender. Orks are asexual, not genderless and female space marines spits in the face of almost 50 years of lore. GTFO you toxic casual tourist activist.
@@ieatstheinternet I’m part of the hobby. I helped build it. There is almost 50 years of lore that people like me, the fandom, have been supporting and engaging with and helping to shape. If you want to go sit in a corner and make up head canon, fine…but leave the hobby alone. We like the hobby the way it is. If it’s problematic to you, go make your own hobby. Make a better hobby. Show us how much better and popular your hobby is.
Oh right, you won’t do that because evil cannot create, it can only distort and destroy. That’s why activists are infecting the hobby. It’s not about making the game more inclusive, because it’s already inclusive. It’s 100% about taking away our toys. It’s not about making space for new people, it’s about taking away space from others.
I have yet to meet a Cannabilistic Humanoid Underground Dweller playing 40k
People are passionate about their hobby and don’t want to see it ruined like Star wars 🤷♂️
Same right wing grifters convinced people of imagined ideological battles there. Jay said it best, its people taking advantage of your changing relationship and feelings towards a property/hobby.
@@pkswarroom yea it’s the right wing grifters that have caused Star Wars to not even make the money back that Disney payed for it 🙄
@@pkswarroom dude you are a grifter lmao
@@pkswarroomno they’re not. Star Wars was ruined. It’s an objective truth the new content is bad. To say Disney Star was is good is an incorrect opinion
@@pkswarroom yeah, its the grifters that have caused Disney to not make back the money that was spent on the purchase of star wars 🙄 It couldn't be the horrible writing 😄
Not toxic, just passionate
And a very toxic whiny group online.
People who send death and rape threats at women in the hobby for putting female heads on space marines aren’t “passionate”, they’re fucking insane mate
Chuds are literally saying women should be banned from Warhammer on Twitter right now…
@@AvaLynneDavies Exactly, the toxic whiny people are the ones who want to change the lore to meet modern the social justice religion.
@@AvaLynneDavies yhea the people attacking the passionate people
Whenever I see a fanbase being accused of toxicity I always wonder, are they actually toxic or is the corporation trying to guilt trip them into not complaining about the pitiable state of affairs in the franchise they love? Sure, there are always *some* toxic fans, but if such a huge amount of your own audience turns on you, maybe, just MAYBE you should reconsider your course of actions.
Anyone who doesn’t acknowledge the contribution Sigmarxism chatroom to the online toxicity around Warhammer is being disingenuous. The other major contributor to online toxicity are content creators like this.
And Arch hasn't been fanning the flames from the right? Disingenuous.
The culture war and politics needs to be kept the fuck out of the hobby. Left or right.
@@iExploder who said that? You are the only one saying that. You are Strawmanning: “But What about Arch?!!” Same BS I am referring to.
Not one woman I know who plays, (and I know many) wants lore destroyed for "inclusion". If you think it's toxic to want the lore respected then YOU infact are the toxic one
Women I know, are enjoying male-only armies and root for their signature characters, who are... males. Shocking
....how was the lore "destroyed"?
@@Forgotmytea 'Somehow, Palplatine returned!' introduction of FemStodes
@@fugazi32 Not every piece of fiction can be Lord of the Rings level of quality - and that's okay 🙂. And honestly, in terms of lazy writing, I have more problems with characters from the atheistic age of the Imprerium like Guilliman and the Lion returning and being perfectly a-okay with the full-on cult worship of the Emperor than anything else.
@@Forgotmytea they arent okay with that, but they cant exactly change it just by snapping their fingers
Obviously you guys are off the ball with this one ur whole comment section disagrees might be a sign your looking at things incorrectly
Nah its just one side disproportionally has their panties bunched up.
Brigading isn’t valid evidence
@@HistoritorJimaldus "Do the majority of even my own fans disagree with me? No. It can only be a brigade"
For someone shouting "cope" all over this comments section you certainly are providing a sterling example.
The comments are proving their point by being toxic crybabies
Not a fan of female Custodes, nor female space marines. Just like I’d feel if they introduced male Sororitas.
Female Marines and Male Sororitas are comparable.
Female Custodes makes alot more sense canonically, and thematically.
@@pkswarroom How?
@@cthuludreams1 Because he wants them to.
@@shartsmcginty8056yeah like from the get-go it already doesn’t make sense considering Custodes were already said to be created from the “sons of nobles.” Like that’s already pretty explicit in the fact that it’s a male faction. Thematically? Yeah no it also doesn’t make sense. Most all of the “elite” groups within the Imperium, especially any with power armor, are explicitly gender-locked and are built upon the idea of brotherhood or sisterhood. Space Marines, Sisters of Battle, former-Custodes, Sisters of Silence. My favorite part is that I frankly can’t think of any single reason that the Imperium would start producing female Custodes in the first place and, on a larger scale, why GW would introduce it (and especially as poorly as they did) without knowing it would sow division amongst the fanbase.
@@pkswarroom Female Sororitas and sisters of silence exist within universe with only an in universe legal explanation for the former and no excuse for the other. Astartes and Custodes are all male because of biology in universe and a sense of verisimilitude outside.
Inclusivity for the wrong reasons is wrong because that is actual racism. 40k fans aren't against inclusion because 40k literally already had it. But when retcons are happening to make it happen, it comes off as inorganic and forced, which is unfair to all parties involved. People should feel included and represented without being elevated so much that they stand out. No one had a problem with the idea of female custodes, but GW fucked up with their execution to attract people whose entire personality is "inclusion", which is neither interesting nor a customer you can count on
Well, not entirely on the last part.
The idea of female custodes without something like "e.g. ancient STC thought to be destroyed by the Men of Iron found by a Admech Archmagos with a escort of a custodes, custodes gets killed by nids/crons/etc (Harlequins lets say for jokes) and then forced to turn a girl from the IG squad into a patchwork custodes with the STC using genetic modifications from the banana boys corpse." is absurd and against by anyone that cared because they were too exclusively male per lore, being what the Grey Knights LARP to be (and even funnier ADBs own book confirms that the process to turn into one lasts long enough that the custodes grows through puberty phenotype setting sufficiently that centuries later all the signature physical traits of their geographic origin are still visible on their face and details of their physique; which is even worse than with marines that get the manipulation 99.99% of the time starts before puberty where the differences are relatively low from a keeping irl science basics for the sake of suspension of disbelief perspective).
Every real fan had a problem with female custodes.
@@saiba9733 no, my uncle, who got me into the hobby wasn't bothered, and he plays custodes. I assume he even started when they first got an army.
@@shonklebonkle324I'ts actually more racist to want to be less racist
Logic an facts win again
@@saiba9733by real I guess you mean insecure?
Toxic tourist problem, not a toxic fanbase.
This. Totally agree.
Oh no the fanbase is toxic too.
@@lupisvolk2420 No. it isn't. Go to a local gaming store.
@@deusmortis9751 m8 this is 40k there is no lore consistency in case you forgot the whole primaris marines situation lmao
@@joejackson969ohh fans are / were pissed but these youtubers here brushed it off quiet quickly to not loose their whole thing as a content creator. People that have a whole range of a chapter got kicked in the nuts left the hobby instead of keep consuming, think about it.
I reject the idea of "inclusivity" because not everything is for everybody. Nobody cares about men who don't like romcoms. Nobody cares about country fans who don't like punk rock. If 40k isn't for you, no harm done.
The problem is it's getting popular, and when that happens people demand it be made for them. I was drawn to Warhammer because I loved the setting, not because it was a fad, you don't see men demanding Barbie be made more like G.I.Joe, because the Barbie movie was more popular then the G.I.Joe movie. Whether I like something or not, I would never disrespect by demanding it change to suit me. I wouldn't demand StarTrek be more bloody, or Harry Potter be more realisitic and well thought out.
@@thegreatergood8081 so Warhammer isn’t just for men? You’re strawmanning inclusivity here I think
@@HistoritorJimaldus no, I'm not straw manning anything. You meet Warhammer on its own terms. If you want to change/bastardize lore to make it more acceptable to people who ordinarily wouldn't be into it, you have an agenda that supersedes the franchise itself.
If you have to ask this kind of question you are not part of the hobby.
You are a minority here
I've played more and painted more Warhammer than you have lmao
@@pkswarroom here comes the gatekeeping
just because you like something 'quite a lot actually' doesn't mean you get to dictate to everyone how they can act around the hobby.
honestly, you nerds need to get a grip, you're a laughing stock
@@pkswarroomask em to post models and they never do
@@pkswarroom A tourist who splurges is still a tourist. You're still in the minority.
@@pkswarroom This is very "My dad can beat up your dad" energy lmao
742 likes 1,9k dislike. Warhammer have you as a toxic fan problem, but you are just 27% of the public. That 's reassuring, Toxic fan.
If you leave it will become less toxic.
Arch first.
Straight up genestealer behavior, we see how your type ruined DnD,star wars, marvel, DC, hell western gaming in general. Keep up the gatekeeping guardsmen
Lmao. "Guardsman" You paint dolls in the same way my wife paints her nails. Not very stereotypically masculine.
@@TheAetherDrop not very demure of you trashing peoples hobby
@@marcusgarcia06 not trashing it, I play with cardboard AND paint dolls. point is you're not some badass space marine for being an asshole gatekeeper.
Tourist.
@@marcusgarcia06 but they are the "tolerant" party...as long as you follow their dogma/religion/cult.
I appreciate that this video got ratioed for attacking the fans of GW and really the fans of this channel
Genuinely unhinged behaviour. Even some of the replies from the channel in the comments don’t lend credibility to their argument 😂
@@Dale9735 yeah, I guess they are planning on shifting the focus of their channels away from GW?
I am completely fine with Female Custodians... but this is such a childish engagement on why people are upset or might be upset about this? You didn't even bother to sit down and think, what viable reasons, might there be?
You are doing what Jay literally called out in his comments. You are completely not engaging with how this could be an issue or upset some people.
I knew Pk was a 40k tourist. This gives all the solid proof.
Moronic lie
He's been playing for 4 years you weirdo.
@@Wyrm7774 woah! 4 whole years!
@@Wyrm7774that’s nothing
Nope. Gatekeeping and respecting the lore is not toxic. We don't need another dead woke scifi franchise - Wokehammer 40,000? No thanks!
Yeah, we dont, but GW is all too eager to make it woke. Just yesterday I saw a nonbinary custodes in a Heresy book. What will they think of next? Who knows.
This was funny to watch. Not to be reductive lol, but you're gripes are just that there are people who are not leftwing ideologues who enjoy Warhammer. Perhaps it's your deconstructive nature that is ruining the fun of the hobby.
He's not talking about everyone in the hobby. He's talking about the right wing tourists trying to turn our hobby into a recruiting ground.
@@iExploder What on earth are you talking about ha This crap has only been the last handful of years of people who found out about warhammer in 2020 and didnt like it all and wanted to change things and some people jumped onto it such as the sigmarxism clowns. Everything that isnt out and out leftist must be right wing right? 99% of people want no current day crap thrown into a damn game and hobby it really is that simple and for some reason that is seen as "right wing" ha
@@iExploder The hobby attracts right wingers bro so sorry
@@SubtleKnife
Classic example of the right “not having da media literacy”. You know that Warhammer is satire of right wing conservative politics and religious zealotry right?
@@cyber4053 is that why you like it so much but also have to be apart of the crowd that seems to think they need to change things?
I 100% agree with EOB on the point that social media and the internet has made it so much harder to enjoy a property for what it is. Instead now, in many movies and games they bring polictics. And it so hard to avoid.
In most cases i try to avoid it and form my own opinion. Rather than coming to vids such as this.
This entire conversation was such in bad faith. First PK you state how much you dislike the Warhammer community for complaining about every little thing only to proceed to do the exact same thing by talking about Arch, MTG, Henry Cavil, etc, you come off as a hypocrite and all without letting Eon speak.
There's a phenomenon around satire and irony where the issue is that what appears laughable or obviously terrible to one person seems reasonable and supportable to another. People took the Stephen Colbert character as an indictment of liberals rather than of conservative talk show hosts. Harry Enfield's "lotsamoney" character was lauded by Tories.
I think in the case of 40K, the issue is more that a genuine satire doesn't work well for the mass marketing of toys you're supposed to identify with, and over time the lore has drifted from a depiction of an awful Fascist empire into the depicting of an awful Fascist empire that is necessary, and of course the goal of all fascist movements is to make the awful seem necessary. I don't think this was deliberate, but just the natural consequence of a company responding to its market incentives. Reversing course on that front will never happen.
if you find warhammer toxic because its masculine go and find another hobby.
Strawman
First video I’ve seen from this channel but he seems quite negative / nasty in some of the comments replies I don’t think I’ll be watching any more it’s not for me
Have you read the comments lol? You try being pleasant in the face of this shit.
@@pkswarroomcry more
@@pkswarroom what? You're the one attacking people calling them dumb, bigots, and sexist. Seethe more fruity.
@@pkswarroom"I was being confrontational and now I'm being confronted, please feel bad for me"
@@pkswarroom You are so rude to people in your comments and videos. Only toxic one I see here is you. Funny too because I agree with most of your points but you are just what is exactly wrong with this community that you so vehemently fight against.
When I tried to discuss the issue like a normal person, I had to find out, that the woke mob is indeed really toxic.
Yep, it's either you agree with them or you're a heretic. Where have I heard that before?
Funny how when I do the same with the right wing hateblog consumers, I end up facing toxicity too.
It's almost like this culture war nonsense should be kept out of the hobby no matter which side of it you personally like.
@@iExploder I guarantee you wouldnt say that if you were winning.
Yea let them fix Warhammer. I’m sure they know what they’re doing. I mean look at what’s been done with LOTR and Star Wars. PROGRESS.
Toxic fanbase has just become synonymous with “a fan base that doesn’t want to see the IP changed”
This is normally the part where someone says "but they've retconned stuff before!"
I don't like that comment. it's lazy and short-sighted, because then you need to spend time trying to make them see that there's a pretty profound difference between "The Squats aren't actually dead, here's a whole new army!" and "oh, there were always girls, you just couldn't tell because their armour's the same and they never DID anything", and that conversation never finishes before they devolve into "YOU JUST HATE WOMENS!"
It's all very routine, so I'm wondering why it hasn't happened yet.
@@kentonbaird1723 This asf.
@@kentonbaird1723what’s the ‘profound difference’?
‘The squats have always been there, they just haven’t done anything for 700 novels’
@@HistoritorJimaldus "The squats got mostly eaten by a rampaging tyranid swarm and were basically on the verge of extinction. they've been away for a good seven hundred novels, recouping their losses and rebuilding an arsenal." I'm pretty sure that's the official story that came with the article and pictures of new squat units when they were shown.
Now, let's examine the Legion of internet White Knights: For the past 700 novels they've done nothing notable. There isn't a single named femstodes that distinguished themselves in any way, shape or form ever. . . . Except one. AFTER a good few weeks of revealing the femstodes in the form of a presidential trump tweet, they made ONE piece of fiction about a femstodes, doing something that isn't actually technically possible: teleporting a nuke into the imperial palace, a location wherein teleportation is physically impossible.
ONE of these revealed an entirely new army to the game with its own rules and tactics.
The other one pandered to sooks like you. It changed nothing about the game, it did nothing for the lore, and it had to insert itself so desperately that it forgot the rules of its own worldbuilding.
THAT is the difference: One changes something, the other pleases your wee dick.
Now, ax bodyspray; Tell me I care too much or something else I've heard before.
Both warhammer IPs are the literal benchmark for modernization and change. As one who engaged with 40k verse in the early nineties, 40k and old timey warhammer is NOTHING like what I learned back then.
It wouldn’t be 10% as bad if GW didn’t do this completely lazy way. They could’ve easily expanded living saints trope into creating some custodies-tier warriors “To aid humanity in time of dire need”.
I stead they choose taking a dump on an entire 30 years of lore, and calling anyone who disagrees an “alt right troll”
I feel like it's really honoring the 30 years of Custodes lore. First they didn't exist, until the suddenly had always existed but were shirtless dudes in leather pants. Then, just as suddenly, they weren't normal buff guys but had always been 10ft genecrafted super warriors. Honestly, this is a pretty small change by comparison
30 years? Most of 40k history custodes were like one paragraph of text in the rulebook. It was only around 2017 when they became a playable army in Horus Heresy and 40k when we got some real insight into them. As a real faction, they are still new.
There's nothing toxic about not wanting to see something that I enjoy being reduced to bland progressive panderslop to plavate people who have no real interest in 40k
It's about time you had a conversation with someone from the other side of the warhammer political spectrum, rather than like minded commentors
The toxic part of the fanbase are the 2 people in this video trying to inject their world view into our hobby. Literal heretics.
Oh, look! The dont recommend channel button
Dude you counteracted it by interacting with it lol
Nice conversation from the safe advertiser friendly position i see
I like to imagine Jay is just a actual dwarf artifacier of plastic. So that table is a standard waist height.
PLEASE play something other than d&d 5e.
Ruin has come to my hobby.
Is ruin having to share stuff with girls?
@@drigoleus1055 If those girls don't respect the hobby and want it changed just so they can exercise control and revel in power dynamics and culture warfare to push an agenda, then yes. Absolutely.
But it's not girls, it's people like you.
@@drigoleus1055 No one is telling women they can't play and many do my LGS.
I'd say 5/6 of the women there would rather they not f**k with the lore and 2 will point out "my guard army has females" and "I play sisters of battle".
@@imadequate3376 when most armies are made of blokes an full of dudes some with some odd view on girls it is a bit harder
Many of my friends liked the custodes change and they want if the marines could be same
The problem with having SoB as the "girls" army is that while SoB rock with their chatolic style it's not for everyone
For my friends who would prefer a army with a more flexible style like SM she would love that
@@vincenzomartin1575 well then I guess I HAVENT been listening to the night lords trilogy after all
Illuminate me if you will on how I'm wrong
I think people make a mountain out of a mole hill over it just to content farm/ rage bait. I have never seen a thing brought up in this 1 and a half hour video actually happen in real life.
You sound exactly like the kind of person that played the hell out of Concord for the two weeks it was in existence, thinking it's version of representation and awful character design was the best thing ever, then got surprised when it was cancelled, completely unaware that the Vast Majority of people don't believe the same thing you do.
The Videogame industry is hitting critical mass right now and on the verge of a second crash like what happened in the 80's. People are ticked off about Dragon Age and Assassin's Creed Shadows. Players are done. The same is true for Warhammer but it's still in its earliest stages.
Female Custodes is just the very first in a long line of future lore changes, all for the sake of inclusivity, that will ultimately lead to Games Workshop's closure while people like you will sit by and make up every reason on earth for why Warhammer somehow failed while being unable to see the obvious reason. Just looking at your replies in the comments, you made up some pretty crazy stuff to justify the female custodes and it's kind of weird...
ZZZzzz
@@chrispy_091 slippery slope fallacy and cherrypicking examples of games you don’t like 😴
@@HistoritorJimaldus The slippery slope was never a fallacy
@@Mr_J1984 It's true. We let one Nazi into Warhammer and all of a sudden they decided to bring their modern culture war hate-politics into the hobby. Oh wait, that's not the narrative you've been told to believe?
I think it has more of a soy-boy problem than anything.
Enjoy that ratio boys
@@boardindoors3274 did you brigade the video from a certain arch-nazi’s channel perchance 😂
@@HistoritorJimaldus bold of you to assume my politics or how I found the video. You seem salty perhaps you need a different hobby than internet activism
@@HistoritorJimaldusyou’re in every comment section sucking these dudes off, it’s pretty impressive
@@HistoritorJimaldus Yet another troglodyte that doesnt understand the words he's using. Go away tourist.
@@HistoritorJimaldus Wait was this mentioned by that certain channel? I found this dumpster fire baby organically.
Malcador didn’t say he would make the Primarchs women. He said the Emperor should’ve made SOME daughters.
Malcador smiled. ‘You brothers - such a nest of rivalries. I warned him to make you sisters, that it would make things more civilised. He thought I was joking. I wasn’t.’
@@Brandelwyn ah yes, sisters, known for always taking the higher round.
@@CastellanofCrowes Considering it was the Emperors female version who sent the Primarchs off when they were kids, and was responsible for the Heresy happening, and at the least all the bad things that happened to Angron.
It's obvious Malcador was an only child
@@lowlygrinder2977 Erda is not the female version of the Emperor.
i guess killing your own channel out of boredom is a thing. congrats
Consider the bright side: at least they didn't go the same way that BIGGER youtubers seem to . . . Unless someone want's to tell the feds to check their hard drives, that is.
@@kentonbaird1723 Better check Arch's hard drives, since conservatives are statistically more likely to be kid fiddlers.
I remember a lot of the non influencer part of the community talking out about female custodes, really just didnt like the way they "retconned" in. If GW had done a better job of stepping them in, even though the potential was alway present, I doubt there would have been as loud of a backlash. ultimatly the majority seemed to move on quickly enough, leaving just the loudest minority to yell into an echo chamber.
If making female space marines and female Custodes is "okay", when should we expect males in the ranks of "Sisters of Silence"?
It was the gaslighting that irked me the most.
@@LordMagiru i understand if they publicly announced lore changes and the reasons, but in fact, all that happened brutally, unforgivingly, and because of Blackrock investment. And they really like to fund DEI trash.
All of WH40K wiki pages were rewritten within 2 days, all "Brotherhoods" and "Sons" vanished. Silently and relentlessly.
Also, the way moderators of WH40K subreddit started to purge and ban EVERYONE who complained is insane. No freedom of speech or thought. This is literally 1984 and the definition of Libtards abusing their power to fuel their agenda that is being shoved down our thoroats.
And do I have to remind you that that female Custodes is a crazy bitch that tried to teleport a bomb into Emperor's Palace? She didnt do it just because a male captain of that spaceship stopped her.
True, but the fact I saw a guy going through insane mental gymnastics just to assume the female custodian was trans and got mad about the pronouns.
He got mad about a non-existant trans characters pronouns.
And I've been crusading against those people ever since.
The fact that this controversy has been used to foster hatred for people who are already unfairly hated and even murdered just for being pissed me off and drives me to try to halt it as well as I can.
I believe the Lamenters would do the same.
FOR THOSE WE CHERISH! ❣️
Exactly. The retcon isn't what I had an issue with, it was the "they've always been women" line.
Just slapping a footnote in a warcom article acknowledging the change, even if said they genuinely didn't consider it a retcon would have prevented the dumpster catching on fire.
Should we have Brothers of Battle? Brothers of Silence? I don't think its really an issue to have groups of females, and groups of males, and then groups that are mixed in the lore. Why are the tourists so against something like that, and have to have everything mixed?
Because they're tourists. They don't complain about the Leagues of Votann being all male, and they don't care about that because Votann aren't in much of the media.
Oh no no no, they don't want everything mixed. They still want their "girls only" stuff. They hate men and anything male exclusive.
Because it's about destruction of lore that's all they care about
I really don't like this argument, because it implies that if someone was ok with breaking the lore of other factions, it would also be acceptable in this case.
The argument is much stronger when you can lay out why their position is bad without giving them the out of other things they probably agree with.
@@IVIaskerade You do not need to. They lack most frontal cortex functions. All you have to do is to point out their hypocrisy and the common man will laugh them off. More brain power wasted on them, is just wasted power.
Warhammer has a tourism problem. You’ll be on your way shortly
Chud here. I'm not the problem, you are the problem. I'm happy to play with anyone who likes Warhammer for the hypermasculine fantasy that it is. I also don't go around demanding to be included in things that are not for me. "I feel Sex and the City could broaden it's appeal by including a 9 feet tall genocidal space racist character that murders someone every episode for offending his outlandish space religion.".
. . . Okay, I know you're using that as an example, but I genuinely believe that WOULD improve the writing and pacing of shows like "sex and the city"
"And while Sandra was looking for love in all the wrong places, Brother Titaniclese was dealing with equal frustrations, PURGING THE MALIGNANT MUTANT FILTH FROM THE NEW YORK SUBWAYS! FOR THE EMPEROR! Some days just really don't go your way~"
@@kentonbaird1723 But that is the point. It would improve the show for us, but the show isn't for us and it doesn't need to be. Ask a Sex and the City fan what they think of my idea. I'm sure they're chuffed about it.
It’s a hobby not a ‘hyper masculine fantasy’ 🤦♂️ play a Slaanesh army then tell me how hyper masculine it is😂 the lore is a satire of fascism amongst other things
@@HistoritorJimaldus Tell me you don't understand Warhammer without telling me you don't understand Warhammer.
@@HistoritorJimaldus I love seeing clowns who barely know how to spell Fascism trying to lecture people about what is a satire of it or not.
Tell me clown-boy what is the main pillars of Fascism? What is its core idea?
Bad apples don't spoil the community. When you go to an actual FLGS (Friendly Local Gaming Store) you don't see toxicity, you see communities and people wanting to play games and talk about something they love.
Warhamner fans online = wow this sucks
Warhamner fans IRL = bro this community rocks and is filled with cool and chill bros
@@HobbiesGamesChillin 100%
@@HobbiesGamesChillin More or less, yup!
We spoke about this a little when talking about "have you ever had a 4chan experience in RL". For the most part, the stores I play in and events I travel to are a good time. 100%
This video is a 4chan experience 📸 this one's going right in my cringe collection!@@pkswarroom
I really like Eons of Battle. I've seen every single one of his videos. He's not someone I care to take ethical/moral advice from, though. I think he would agree lol.
Never heard of this PK guy but he seems super toxic.
Take a look at his comments here. All are aggressive and lack in nuance or tact.
Same seems to go for his videos.
One can only hope these elements of the community are diminished as time goes on.
All we can do is speak against negativity, and hope people like PK improve themselves.
34:00 because we see what that nonsense has done to every other hobby community. This is not the venue for that stuff. Warhammer doesn't draw on modern politics or cultural issues. Warhammer fantasy/40k has always pulled from historical parallels so that factions can mentally click with people to understand their esthetic. Adding modern nonsense to the setting will see the hobby lose its soul.
Exactly. Games can have political themes or ideas without trying to shoehorn contemporary politics into them.
So you're willing to fight against far right politics being wedged into the hobby, right? Right?
@@iExploderNo, but more needs to be done to emphasize that the Imperium are not the “good guys”. In older editions they made it really clear that life in the Imperium absolutely sucked, and it was bleak, horrible and oftentimes short. Hive Worlds, manufactorums, and just the way the Imperium treated human life as cheap resources to further its barbarism was highlighted (or even showcased in-game with things like Necromunda).
Now a lot of it is kinda glamorized after Guillemon and Lion’El returning and that element of grimdark in the setting has been slowly lost over the years.
i guarantee that there would not be the same push for inclusivity and left-leaning ideals towards Imperium forces from progs if the Imperium was represented as the soulless meatgrinder/bloated, dying institution that it was in previous editions, because its existence is antithetical to those ideals. Y’all would be playing Orks and Tau instead.
@@iExploder Yes, if one of the writers suddenly started having Guilliman go "build the wall, let's make the imperium great again!" or people tried to claim parallels between tyranids and immigrants that would also be stupid and bad for the game.
Warhammer 40,000 has been about masculine fantasys for a really long time. GW clearly want to change that. Not saying thats wrong but is clearly whats happening. People are aloud to be upset about that. It is what it is...
@@maxgregor3201 why does an optional super warrior who is female but still very masculine ruin your masculine fantasy?
@@HistoritorJimaldus For the same reason sex and the city would be a different show if some of the main 4 characters where men. Look I'm not against the change at all. But it's hard to deny that 40k was about men and ultra masculinity in the past and its not now. No bad thing but its definitely a change. I'm all for it but I can also see why some people wouldn't be so much and yeah some of those people are sexists but some aren't.
It has a soy problem, and I'm looking at it.
He’s brown
@@natty4316 It's not about color of his skin.
Brother eeeeeewwwwwh! He's brown ewwwwh!
Chuds always tell on themselves 😂 tell arch he’s a cockwomble from me
@@kavky the incels always tell on themselves huh
Lmao I’ve seen TOXIC and it most definitely ain’t the people mad about lore chief 😂 tbh imma do the same thing I did with Star Wars and pretend the sequel films(or in this case femstodes) just didn’t happen 🤷♂️
No, we're not going to take a shitty retcon while laying down. If they gave a even halfway decent reason in the lore, we would have been fine with it. We have been saying that from the beginning. But we're being called sexist and pushed back. All we want is lore. My wife even has an issue with female custodes for the exact same reason. "What if cawl while working on primaries was able to alter the gene seed to accept a female recipient, allowing more soldiers to fight, to explain how they can push back against the impossible odds that have been set against them now. Boom, we have females in the lore and it would make sense. Not just that they were there but never mattered."
Retcons have always been a thing in 40k, for example the whole "Primarch" debacle. But we don't see you malding about those now do we?
And it makes no difference that there's women in the Custodes line. Name me 1 reason this affects the army at all in the grand scheme of things
If you want to have a conversation then why do you belittle the people in the hobby that see the progression differently then you do and do not agree with you everything fine attitude. From the others perspective you are both actually the ones who are just in it for the painting side and the rules side of the hobby you seem to couldn't care less if the Salamanders would turn traitor tomorrow and fallow slaanesh or some completely whack thing
They would care considerably, however, if the salamanders weren't black (even though they aren't black the same way humans are, they're literally coal-black because of their manufacture process).
It's honestly kinda entertaining how Jay comes off as a gamer in the purest sense while PK unironicly uses shit like "fasci" and refers to himself as an influencer while spewing lefty social war 101 BS from a decade ago.
Jay reminds me of one of my closest hobby friends who holds a similar position, for him it's like going to the pub with friends and changing the lore is the equivalent of changing the logo of his favorite beer. Who gives a fuck if it tastes the same and gets you drunk.
Those aren't the people who try to poison the hobby for some fucked up ideologies they hold. Those aren't the people who'll shove LGBT down your throat just for the attention.
Just chill guys who want to spend time with friends and roll dice.
Meanwhile PK is going on rants with Jay going "yeah" like he just wants to go back to painting the new Shatterpoint squad
It really seems as though compared to Jay, PK really is just an ideologue and games are nothing more to him than a vector for activism.
Inaction is just as bad as evil actions.
@@PlanetTrendy Just like Arch, just leftist.
Honestly, GW's F/U where the Custodes women are concerned, is claiming they were always there when all the established lore never mentioned them. It would've been far better for them to say, "The Imperium has figured out how to make the gene mods work for the daughters of the nobility, and now they are being introduced into the ranks."
There would have been grumblers, there always are, but any "backlash" would be next to nil by comparison.
They always have done that shit to introduce any new unit femstodes isn’t new
Or even "it always _could_ have been women, but given their role as glorified palace guards it was only men until Guilliman wanted them sent out so they had to break with tradition and expand their recruitment"
If you absolutely _have_ to do femstodes, that's the way to do it.
Imagine seeing people passionate about their hobbies and thinking its toxic because they dont want the setting watered down to appease people who dont care about the game or lore?
TOTAL CHVD VICTORY
CHVDHAMMER FOREVER
Cope more 😂
@@HistoritorJimaldus
Seethe more slanneshi cultist
@@shueyk2320 how original 😂 keep coping
@@HistoritorJimaldus Doesn't have to be original. It's true, that's what matters, slaaneshi cultist.
MIDHAMMER IS CHVDHAMMER
999.M41 FOREVER
Non Jay guy, I think you Dropbox the Ball hard on insulting people and then calling Guilliman a Nazi. You're bringing your own stuf to the same level the people you are criticizing.
If you don't like the core thing of this world, leave it be and keep moving.
This is not only satire, this is intellectual property that you can like or not, but do not claim the high ground when you are down on the mud
I love 40k and the Heresy. But Guiliman is literally Nazi coded in First Heretic.
"Just following orders bro" he says, after doing a genocide.
That's not a value judgement you need to be offended by. Hell, its not even subtext - its overt and purposeful.
@@pkswarroom "muh media literacy"
Please gtfo.
@@vermithan8198 You're giving him engagement on his own channel. How is he supposed to gtfo of his own channel? This is a Wendy's.
I have only noticed it with the chronically online fanbase, most people I play in person simply don't care, we're just here to play games
Part of the toxicity in the community is calling everyone who thinks shoving “inclusivity” into every aspect of something is not good - a far right grifter/extremist.
People just have different lines of what makes sense for changes with the extensive amount of existing lore, and to hand wave any disagreement as -phobic is the exact opposite extreme of what you’re complaining about.
For example, the sisters of battle aren’t very inclusive to men. Should we change it to “Soldiers of Battle” and have half of them men? Why does the emperor need to be a man, can’t he be a woman now? Why not?
Bro, the circumference of the earth is only 24,000 miles, the furthest he could be is like 12k miles away - wheres my guy, orbiting in space???? :D
I hate that every tourist has a YT-Channel now.
They don't have real jobs and cant relate to normal people.
For larger issue is people coming into a hobby and think they are now the leader of a movement...
It's a complicated topic, but there's a growing part of me that wishes GW would just go back to taking the lore a lot less seriously. I think that would alleviate some of these problems considerably even if it would piss off a lot of the lore nerds.
I'd also add that the modern sacredness of the lore makes the game and model releases a lot less interesting and is really hurting the tabletop game.
But I also understand GW not wanting to rock the boat. The setting/lore got 40k where it is popularity-wise, so they're in an odd spot with it.
Yes, there is for sure a noticable part of the community that is super toxic.
Go back to concord lil bro
I don't even know what that is.
@pkswarroom Don't lie Sweetbaby shill.
@@pkswarroom Yeah, don't even lie about it, Trans girl... Sorry about the psychological horror your mother inflicted on you.
@@JoshStoobs...none of these words actually *mean* anything to you, do they...you're going to toss around "Marxist" next, and it too will mean "this is baaaad" or "you're a stupid poopyhead"...WTFIWWY...
That’s why you’re tit PK.
The fanbase is fine. it's been great for decades. The tourists and the activists are the only problem. Gatekeep harder boys, protect your hobbies.
Just tell us how much you were bullied as a kid man…
Warhammer has a tourism problem. Leave.
You first.
To be fair, the reason the 2 Keepers of Secrets are AoS exclusive, is that their entire existence is based on the fact that Slaanesh is imprisoned in AoS. It would be the equivalent of Kharn the betrayer being in AoS.
They can make a lore reason to put them in 40k. Give me more bigger and smaller greater Daemons!