I know the man is a crook. Only the deaf, blind and stupid would have invested in Norton. Such a shame and I feel sorry for those who have lost their jobs. All you have said is true but there is much much more. I used to work there so I know what went off
Give Stuart a call and tell what went off i would love to here the inside story hope you did not lose out and i hope some one saves Norton they were building some nice prototypes
I'd love to know who thought it was a great idea to strip customers bikes of parts to sell off on other bikes, and why would an employee comply and not report these shenanigans?
i went there for an interview,must say,seeing the welders in a tent with a river running under it. (download was on) was really surprising,in any shape or form,water and electricity......walked away.i feel for the guys who lost their jobs,duped as well?
"Stu The Warrior " excellent presentation, excellent research, very clear and precise. Thank you. It all makes me very sad,I hope and I pray that the people who trusted their hard earned cash get compensation. Gratitude regards Gareth Wiltshire.
Thanks for taking the time to pull together this comprehensive update Stuart. My sympathies are principally with the workforce, ripped off pension investors, defrauded customers and the Nation’s tax payers. It’s staggering that as the nuggets of background information slowly emerge, due diligence protocols by the DoT failed to alert the authorities to the enterprise’s smoke and mirror tactics. Norton, touted around the globe by our ex PM as an example of British commercial excellence is truly shameful...
I have a Norton sitting in the garage that hasn't moved in almost two years because of a wicked crack in the cylinder head and the dealer I bought the bike off stopped dealing with them 5 months ago because he couldn't get a straight answer and I wasn't able to get any replacement parts. But for a very long time he lied to me and some of the other owners I know that had issues/ We were all told a pack of lies "it on back order and we will have you in as soon as possible" when they knew it was a house of cards. All the American dealers all knew it was coming and said nothing, and they all fed us a song and dance about new parts coming soon, So they are as guilty as the factory in my mind
Garner is a piece of work by all accounts, the more I read about this debacle the worse it gets! MCN have let their readers down too by constantly featuring Norton every other week, knowing customers were being shafted and not saying a word about it. Absolute disgrace....
I'd thought the best of the Norton name and the media hype mcn gave me the fella was getting a bloody knighthood on its merit sadly for the people he's just a hood needs jailed
Has anyone physically walked into a police station, with a solicitor and made an actual complaint against garner and norton ? The police can not refuse to investigate a serious complaint, fraud, or theft of parts or something of that sort.
some of the racers looked the nuts. but mcguiness said he was 'shitting himself' every time he went out on norton at iom. it was that bad a bike apparently
Styling is just styling. Let's not get all dewy-eyed about it. It's easy and quite common to incorporate classic retro styling elements and any number of reputable custom bike builders do it all the time.
Thank you Mr Fillingham. The Norton story is tragic. Living on the East Coast of USA I've been watching the Norton story evolve. The bikes where achingly beautiful.
Garner has ruined at least two great companies and many peoples lives. He deserves to be punished with the full weight of the law, however I suspect he will get off with a slap on the wrist. He has been getting away with it all of his life....
Hope everyone will forgive me from stating the obvious points, not least because someone has probably already done so. Somewhere out there in Norton rider land there must be someone with contacts in the press or BBC news, who will be looking for a juicy story. They won’t care about political background ( for instance the BBC aren’t biased, it’s just that the Tories/Labour/Monster Raving Loonies don’t always agree with what they say). This would be a ideal subject for Panorama. I’m not a Norton owner but have watched this disaster unfold and a once - proud British bike name being trashed. Your local BBC station might be the first place to try, or an email / phone call to the Panorama office at the BBC might work. Would suggest pulling together as many contacts / stories as possible from both annoyed buyers and ripped-off pensioners as possible. Just a thought!
A good insight into the issue at Norton, although a difficult watch. My father bought a Norton brand new in 1960 ( a bike which is still in the family) he was a Norton man through & through. He will be turning in his grave at the current situation.
Mate this is a sad and sorry tale for what is British motorcycle history. Came across this by chance and in a way wish I hadn't because it does put the industry in a poor light, seemingly because of the actions of one individual. Really feel for those who have lost so much money on something of a passion which is a iconic British bike. On the other hand the question that needs an answer is, Why no pay back and justice? Thanks for posting.
Hi, Just a thank you for your two articles on this awful debacle, one can only hope that something can be done about the gross and callous indifference shown by the people involved in regard to others hard earned money and goodwill. Stu.
As someone who worked with Norton in a variety of capacities, I was saddened then shocked at the outrages that have come to light. I am also surprized that no criminal investigation and or charges been filed against Stuart Garner...... If Norton returns in another guise, it will take a huge amount of goodwill to recover and or gain faith with the cycling public.....Thank you for your comments and insights
Another excellent review. Thank you UncleSTU. I do have a lot of experience in this area of corruption, mostly working overseas but when I came back to the UK a few years back I found that I need not have bothered with all that international travel as London is the money laundering and most corrupt Capital in the world! It's all about where the interest lies. Think of the Prime Minister as the CEO of some large Corporate business, lets call it UK Plc. And his Cabinet are his Board of Directors. But who is the Chairman? Perhaps that position should be a social conscious, or that sense of doing the right thing? The CEO's job is to run the Board but his primary concern is to look after the share price. If a big scandal gets out usually the CEO's first thought is "how do I protect the share price?" His second thought is usually and "how do I protect my huge salary and bonus payments?" Boris has a lot on his plate at the moment but I guess he is thinking something like "not another problem of incompetence and ineptitude! I really don't need this right now". So to protect UK Plc, the best course of action will be to bury bad news and protect all is well and that the CEO and the Board are doing a good job of running things. In all the investigations that I have worked on, this is usually the outcome. Bad news is buried, the CEO smiles and carries on regardless, the share price holds up, the board is just as incompetent and nothing really changes. Except perhaps the CEO starts looking for a way out, with as big a bonus and pension package he can negotiate. The slight difference this time is that the former CEO of UK Plc was sacked.The new CEO is only just coming to terms with just how bad things really are. UK Plc still lacks a Chairman to whom the CEO and the Board are accountable. On paper that should be the Royal Family but I'm not sure they are up to the job, like a lot of Chairman. So the lesson from this story is that, if you want to rip off people really big time, get sponsorship from politicians, the government and even the royal Family (a couple of photos of the future King endorsing your non-existent product will do) then you will be untouchable!
I think ALL corporations are all smoke and mirrors nowdays. Corporation motto: Never give a sucker an even break. This happens a lot in the states. They take full payment for merchandise that they know full well, won't be delivered.
Excellent summary, Stuart. And accurate conclusions. But do let us know when the threatening letters from MCN’s Solictors, claiming reputation damage, arrive. It’s bound to be their first, panic, response!
It’s fair to say “he’s pulled the wool over everyone’s eyes” from the Politicians, to the James Bond movies makers, to the Henry Cole production team, to the everyday man in the street like me and you. If all the accusations are true then he his no better than the likes of Robert Maxwell and Phillip Green and should be held to task by the powers that be. Maybe the politicians are so embarrassed by the whole thing it will all just get swept under the carpet ? Only time will tell, great video again Stuart 👍🏼
Hi Neil. Couldn't agree more. Sadly it seems time and time again that when you reach a certain level in the 'establishment' that you get away with pretty much anything. Your examples are perfect, Prince Andrew.....mmmm....dont know what we plebs can do about stuff like this. Feel,so sorry for the Norton workers and customers everywhere.
What a racket! It’s a heck of a shame that such potential was ruined by mismanagement and what appears to be corruption of the worst kind. It seems to me that just on price point alone they would have had their work cut out to be competitive against established manufacturers. And I know they were probably targeting wealthier individuals, but even so ? Given the price of an original Norton Commando these days maybe it makes sense. But the lack of government oversight and intervention is unforgivable and you really have to ask , apart from Garner, who benefits? It would be wonderful to see this historic British brand truly resurrected but any chance of that is likely well gone now. Great job Stuart !
The name is now so tarnished that even its bright history can not be repolished. Its dead beyond death. I would rather resurrect another great name, it would be much easier.
exactly what's wrong with britain. 'brand' my arse. 'lifestyle' my arse. marketing degrees - b/s. mcguiness said he was 'shitting himself' every time he went out on norton at iom. it was that bad a bike. brand = arse
If you like brands, find a cattle ranch and enjoy the endorphins!!! Norton died in the first place because it could'nt read the market and change. It has now died in the second place because the market enjoyed nostalgia and failed to read it. Bury it deep, I say and look forward to new innovative designers and companies.
I'm an IFA and was approached by a potential client some years ago for advice on putting his pension into Norton. he came to me because of my long involvement with MAG going back to 1981. I advised him against it and off he went. More recently another client came to me intending cashing in his pension to buy one. I've just advised him to go buy a Triumph instead.
My favourite bike as a youngster was a Commando 750 and 850 and seeing Bike magazine with the new 961 being sold. When I was in a position to buy the bike, I ordered it. Fortunately I realised this was deception and I ordered a closing down order on Norton. I eventually got my money back. Sorry for those that got caught by evil Garner.
@@threethrushes Because I was given excuses for over a year about why delivery was delayed. Having paid in full I eventually cancelled the order and asked for my money back. It was apparent from what I found out on Internet forums that I was not the only person unable to get a bike or a refund.
It may have been nostalgia but I was hoping that Norton would return to the market place! As a former owner of an Atlas and a Commando Interstate guess my memories got in the way of due diligence. Guess like some dreams this one won’t be coming true! Too bad the bikes looked great and could have been a true niche bike!
Great vid as usual and lets just hope that MCN NEVER gets any more air time on other UA-cam channels because they have been less than straight (trust me really want to say more but I’m respectful of not using bad language) in terms of how they reported on this, like you i simply wouldn’t put their paper on my toilet roll. Great vid Stuart.
Reading how all this is unfolding, it is little wonder no criminal charges have yet been brought, nor should it be any surprise that the public would not be kept abreast of any ongoing investigation. With regard to a government enquiry as to the 5 million pounds of public money given to Norton, 1) It would make financial sense to discover the extent of the criminal activities before beginning a government enquiry which would simply re-investigate many of the issues the CPS and police would have already covered, 2) A government enquiry at this stage could potentially hamper a criminal investigation. 3) Why have a government enquiry that could cost as much as the money that was given in the first place? With regard to MCN's lack of investigative and balanced journalism prior to the collapse of Norton ...is anyone seriously surprised there? Garner was certainly canny enough to scmooze a few journalists for some good PR.
A really sad and sorry take for those who lost money to this crook. Your vid Stuart is informative and well told. Surely criminal proceedings are going to be forthcoming, especially if the people who lost out petition the police and/or there MP’s demanding he be investigated.
Well said, Stuart. I feel sorry for those investors and enthusiasts who lost money and I feel angry at the incompetent and corrupt government for adding my money to that when so much service infrastructure is failing.
Brilliant follow up and well researched ! So many people in favoured and privileged positions seem to be involved in this outrageous con of the decade. It beggars belief that there's no obvious action being taken by the SFO or any arrests being made - no doubt a lot of politicians and less reputable folk from the media in behind the scenes CYA mode. A shame this distinguished brand and that of Spondon has been trashed by such an unscrupulous individual. It is my sincere hope that justice will prevail in this sorry saga and that those who placed their trust and money in this venture will eventually be reimbursed. Thanks Stuart for sharing your research and findings. ATB from Malaysia
Hi Stuart, This was indeed a tragic episode in the life of British industry in general. There are far too many rogues running far too many companies, Robert Maxwell was one of the first one that I heard of to rob pension funds, and he was a Labour MP, it appears that greed knows no boundaries. I do agree with you regarding your assessment of MCN - I fail to understand how it keeps it’s readership, it isn’t editorial style or content, but there you go. All the best keep these exposes coming.
Thank you Stuart for your clear and logical summary of the Norton saga, you’re a breath of fresh air amid the hype and nonsense we so often hear. I really feel for the people affected by this mess, we should all write to our local MP to demand a proper investigation.
Stuart...it was desperately sad..to hear the sordid breakdown details of a modern day British Iconic company's fraudulent sequence of financial demise and the complete lack of a credible government and police response. Many of us bike lovets who literally worshipped at the Norton marquee are devaststed. Thanks for your in depth searches and pragmatic presentations. Another credit worthy Fillingham Flick for the history files. ✌
I’ve met Garner regarding doing some marketing work with Norton. I didn’t in the end but I have to say, in person it’s easy to see how a lot of this has happened. He’s a very convincing bloke. And I guess within the circles that he’s worked his way into, that goes a very long way.
Another articulate well constructed video with some very posing questions for MCN and the Government. I think that point is a huge factor in credibility and how it drew people in to a deposit, purchase or off loading their whole pension. As mentioned previously, the factory tours felt like a showroom with the odd tool box in it. Looking back I can’t believe I went along with it for so many years, I used to be a used car salesman you would of thought I would have known better! I would love to hear the comments of the likes of Sean Kynnersley who was UK sales and service manager 6 years ago (decent bloke and feel sure he left because he knew it was all smoke and mirrors) Clem Croft who was also UK Sales Manager (again short term in the job), Lee Frankish International Dealer Manager (tried to do the decent thing), Ian Large in accounts (what secrets does he know)and not least Mr Skinner who was as close as anyone to Garner and the daily workings of the company and is implicit as SG. It seems clear to any layman they are banged to rights, but I bet through the Ltd company and more waffle than a waffle maker he will get off scott free, bar losing his previous inflated ego. Let’s hope not and the ordinary folk get their hard earned back, and a buyer with integrity and passion comes along and takes up the mantle and restores faith in the brand, come on Mr Bloor you know you want to. Triton anyone...
My thoughts all along . Mr Bloor should be given a knighthood in my opinion for the success he has had with Triumph, all funded out of his own back pocket . The only man on this planet who could make a success of Norton . Remember the 70s NVT. Going back to me SG he deserves what's coming to him hopefully in the near future.
I had a run in with motorcycle news in 2003,they would not print a letter I sent regarding my 2002 Honda pan European and it’s very poor quality and problems from day one,I was contacted by a journalist who was working for Honda and writes in the motorcycle news who obviously did not want to publish anything bad against Honda,a few days later Honda female rep rings me but by this time I wanted a refund on the new bike but was refused...so I think all the journalists who write for mcn work for one manufacturer or another and will not print anything showing a bad light.
The Norton saga has had an effect on me that I'm not going to buy mcn anymore I'd bloody thought garner would get a Knighthood not the ball and chain he really needs to receive media hype sad really cause the product looked good 😢
Brilliant stuff Stuart, really, very interesting. Please keep going on this subject as and when you get enough material. You're bang on with your style and content. I was interested in an Atlas as an 'affordable' Norton and made a few enquiries. Just the garbled responses and terrible communication I received were enough to put me off thankfully. Buy some shares, sir. Oh no, sorry, now we've found a big investor so the share deal is suddenly off........? Eh?And MCM should definitely step up and admit they were wrong, at the very least.
I feel so sorry for the investors and buyers that were duped and lost their hard earned money, and also for the British tax payer. I'm outraged that the Government threw public money at a venture without proper scrutiny ( not the first or last time, we're used to that ) The biggest tragedy of all, in my view as a motorcycle enthusiast, is that the legendary Norton brand has been forever tarnished and pissed down the toilet. A very sad story.
My uncle Fred was foreman of the cylinder head line at Norton, back in the early 1970s, when I had a Gus Kuhn Norton Commando (I also had a cousin who worked at Triumph back then, when the lads were trying to keep that factory going) so it breaks my heart to hear about all this. Hopefully a new buyer can be found and the name will live on...and the pensioners who invested their life savings get a fair go.
Thank you very much for a brilliant post....I was suckered in by this thief and very proud of the Norton but now feel gutted and I feel for all the lads n lasses who have lost their jobs,i cant even imagine the pain those folks who's lost their investments feel....anyway having been buying and reading MCN since the early 70's I for one WILL NOT BE SUBSCRIBING TO THIS PAPER ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Another insightful video, Stuart. It’s a crying shame that a fine old British name should be dragged through the mud by a man who seems to be pathologically dishonest, facilitated by MCN and others in the motorcycling press. I feel so sorry for all those who have lost out financially and materially, as well as for those now looking for new jobs.
Completely agree with you, criminal charges need bringing against this crook. There seems to be one rule for some people and another for the rest of us peasants. Makes my blood boil
"Thankyou" for your update. I will always love Norton and just want this sorted, so it can move on as one of the legendary marks in the motorbike industry that it deserves to be.
Really good video. So often scammers like Garner seem to get away with it and I can never understand why or how. I certainly cannot see why this does not become a criminal investigation and perhaps after the pensions mess is sorted out it will. At least we can all hope so anyway. Keep up the good work.
Brilliant exposé. The Phoenix Four made about £40m, mostly taxpayer money while running what was left of BL into the buffers. Our governments seem awfully keen to hand over public money to this type of "entrepreneur" with zero diligence or accountability. Last year I passed a fashion outlet in London and, in the window, on display was a lovely looking 961. Shame so few got to receive theirs.
Hi Stuart, great video. I’m an accountant in Australia reality is the administrator of Norton will be investigating a lot of the issues. I would humbly suggest the police wouldn’t be that interested as it’s a financial crime and limited resources are spent on other issues. The administrator will submit a report to the UK corporate authorities who will file it away and do nothing, like they do in Australia.
The police should be interested and have powers that a simple administrator could only dream of. However I believe their lack of action could be due to other forces in play.
stuart fillingham maybe but generally in my experience police are just too busy to take the time and effort to properly investigate fraud, they are happier getting the arrests and convictions for easier to prove crimes. The administrator will probably bankrupt Garner and sell off his ill gotten gains.
@@stevehamilton306 I think the police only concentrate on activities that generate revenue these days, they dont really do crime anymore unless its covered by the media and they have to be seen to be doing something.
“Please refrain from swearing in the comments”. You’re absolutely right, but *&£! me listening to all that makes my blood boil, as does the knowledge that he’ll probably get away with it leaving a trail of destruction in his wake.
....just been watching Jay Leno and his 1962 Norton SS 650 ....and this is the bike that would have sold very well if a modern remake had been manufactured , like the Royal Enfield 650 Interceptor has !
Another great, if not depressing video Stuart. Personally I have no issue with HMG investment in worthwhile British ventures but this must be attached to responsible due diligence and an on-going responsibility to ensure that the UK tax payer is getting an acceptable return...just like any investor. Investments obviously come with risks but to throw our money at a 'questionable' management 'team' is a very basic error...and may explain HMG's zero appetite for an inquiry.
A very British disaster. Probably the best metaphor for the current depressing decline the UK is now in. Interesting to see the incompetence of the so called 'party of business'. I'm afraid my dog is a more competent business analyst than the tory government. I'm so sad to see what has been done to both Spondon Engineering and Norton Motorcycles. The answer to the question of why pretty much nothing is happening with a view to investigating criminal activities or otherwise is because UK law has been evolved to protect people who defraud, steal or otherwise act badly in business and to move the consequences and fallout onto anyone but the culprits. I'd like especially to see people like Cameron, Fox et al face some consequences for their hubris and incompetence in handing out other people's money without any checks, balances or knowledge of the industry.
Enlightening, it explains why when I was at a classic motorcycle meeting in Australia early last year and there was a Norton stand there, the guy at the stand, who was a representative of one of the Australian distributors was advising everyone who spoke with him NOT to buy a Norton! He mostly said that every Norton that had been delivered in Australia had been returned with warranty issues which had not been fixed.
If that was someone on DWP benefits they be in the jail never trust a person who use profanities when talking business sums up Britain at the top rotten to the core
Its a sad story and an insult to many people and to the name Norton!! And I agree....there should of course be an investigation and someone should pay and go to jail
The 1st motorcycle I ever owned was a Norton. This is such a shame. Hopefully someone with integrity and it looks like, deep pockets, can step in get the brand back on track and yes, reimburse the investors. Of course, Unicorns are also real.
Stuart, a very competent analysis but a very sad one for all the investors including those that sank their pensions into the project and those that laid down their hard earned cash for the bikes that never materialised and/or were waiting for their bikes to be repaired under warranty. It would be good if Royal Enfield could pick up the pieces.
As a friend of a mechanic who worked for Norton I got an insight to the working of Norton I asked if he would buy a bike from them he replied definitely not as a bike Triumph were a better buy the majority of the parts were substandard the workforce were very unhappy with the situation and working practices
Maybe the reason the government don’t want to investigate Stuart Garner, is the outcome would point the finger at them for being stupid giving hardworking taxpayers money to a man who should remained as a assistant gamekeeper all his working life.
Well done along with mine a few months ago and they knew (MCN) something was wrong back in 2012 and continued to plug the brand right up to the end of last year! (2018)
There is one glimmer of a silver lining in all this. For the most part, the bikes are achingly beautiful. Step in someone of the same mould as John Bloor and maybe the name can be resurrected again?
I agree Tim, in fact for some years I have considered at least writing to John Bloor asking, nay begging him to somehow acquire Norton, even if it means there are no more bikes ever actually being built to carry the Norton name, I am sick of the continuing prostitution of this famous name, and I believe Mr Bloor has the integrity , and has proved it with his success with the Triumph venture, to save the name, if not the business. This I feel is better than the name going to some foreign buyer to produce some ersatz machine with Norton on the tank
@@davidchadwick1892 Apparently that may have been the plan of Garner 8 / 10 years ago but wanted too much money. I've read that John Bloor put £90 million of his own money when he bought the Triumph brand in 1983 to make it what it is today!
Game reserve? Botswana. Castle- 8 vehicles. I wonder if he would do tours. Sit inside the fence, while he is on display. I mean - an elephant cage should be good enough. The locals could keep him fed on dry grasses and other fibre foods. A bucket of river water - you would not want him drying out! You might even include a piece of tin, to give him shade, in the heat of the day. Picture the Stanley Lion story. Oliver and his stick. I think I would pay to view that. Sadly - people stealing money - well - they let it slide. Its a little too embarrassing to have the China juggernaut ripping off the Chinese in their own back yard.
Well as the administrators are legally bound to report criminal activity . Hopefully Garners scamming ways will put him behind bars for a very long time
I owned a Norton many years ago, I have had many bikes since and still love only 2. That Norton 850 and the Ducati 900SSFE. So when I saw the Norton mark coming back my heart raced... I believe I wasn’t the only one.
Stuart Garner should be arrested for Fraud and obtaining money by deception. Anyone who worked on the bikes that were in for warranty work, should also be done for handling stolen goods. Those bikes were no longer the property of Norton. It is theft. The definition of that is “ A person is guilty of theft if they dishonestly appropriate property belonging to another and to permanently deprive” which if they did by using the parts from owners bikes to finish others. The act of theft is there. Garner needs to be fully investigated.
WOW, thank you for this one Stuart. I had no idea ... what a shame to see the sinking of such an iconic name and sadness for the suffering of some of the people it dragged along as casualties, all for pure greed. Only a criminal mind can achieve that!
Thank you Stuart, there must be some celebrity figures within the motorcycling community that now look rather stupid for the publicity that they gave to this man. With the immunity he seems to have, I wouldn't be surprised if Mr Garner doesn't get a peerage out of it for services to industry!
Thank you for a very informative video. as a Spondon owner I did know that Norton used their frames but did not know the rest of that story. absolutely a shame!!! I'd love to see a Spondon Engineering video if anyone has more information about them. I know that Gia Engineering was started by someone who worked for Spondon.
Absolute disgrace and as someone else said on here if it was any ordinary member of the public did this they would be locked up immediately. Because it was a well heeled "Business Man/Entrepeneur" he is allowed to get away with it. Let's see if the powers that be pursue this with the same vigour they do with benefit cheats......
Garner is one man, it was Norton employees that stole parts off customers motorcycles which had come in for warranty work, and Norton employees that phoned customers to defraud them into paying the full balance for a motorcycle that didn't exist. Whilst Norton employees were doing this, other Norton employees either went along with it, or covered it up by failing to report it to the police! These Norton employees that defrauded customers into paying in full for non existing motorcycles and personally stole parts off customers motorcycles are at least as guilty as their despicable boss! The complicit MCN aided and abetted the deceptions and thefts!
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I know the man is a crook. Only the deaf, blind and stupid would have invested in Norton. Such a shame and I feel sorry for those who have lost their jobs. All you have said is true but there is much much more. I used to work there so I know what went off
Give Stuart a call and tell what went off i would love to here the inside story hope you did not lose out and i hope some one saves Norton they were building some nice prototypes
@Chris Stevens Come on chris who did you here it from ,more info the more hope he does a ten stretch
I'd love to know who thought it was a great idea to strip customers bikes of parts to sell off on other bikes, and why would an employee comply and not report these shenanigans?
i went there for an interview,must say,seeing the welders in a tent with a river running under it. (download was on) was really surprising,in any shape or form,water and electricity......walked away.i feel for the guys who lost their jobs,duped as well?
@@evilelf5967 Lucky escape you might of lost more than you job and pension sounds well sketchy
As an ex police constable i agree there is definitely criminal activities occurring here in this sorry saga
annoying thing is....he'll walk away from this,instead of a custodial sentence..
Someone high up definitely liked a classic bike in the government
"Stu The Warrior " excellent presentation, excellent research, very clear and precise. Thank you. It all makes me very sad,I hope and I pray that the people who trusted their hard earned cash get compensation. Gratitude regards Gareth Wiltshire.
Thanks for taking the time to pull together this comprehensive update Stuart. My sympathies are principally with the workforce, ripped off pension investors, defrauded customers and the Nation’s tax payers. It’s staggering that as the nuggets of background information slowly emerge, due diligence protocols by the DoT failed to alert the authorities to the enterprise’s smoke and mirror tactics. Norton, touted around the globe by our ex PM as an example of British commercial excellence is truly shameful...
I have a Norton sitting in the garage that hasn't moved in almost two years because of a wicked crack in the cylinder head and the dealer I bought the bike off stopped dealing with them 5 months ago because he couldn't get a straight answer and I wasn't able to get any replacement parts. But for a very long time he lied to me and some of the other owners I know that had issues/ We were all told a pack of lies "it on back order and we will have you in as soon as possible" when they knew it was a house of cards. All the American dealers all knew it was coming and said nothing, and they all fed us a song and dance about new parts coming soon, So they are as guilty as the factory in my mind
Regrettably it does seem that Norton was all smoke & mirrors. A real shame.
Garner is a piece of work by all accounts, the more I read about this debacle the worse it gets! MCN have let their readers down too by constantly featuring Norton every other week, knowing customers were being shafted and not saying a word about it. Absolute disgrace....
I will NOT buy the MCN ever again!
I'd thought the best of the Norton name and the media hype mcn gave me the fella was getting a bloody knighthood on its merit sadly for the people he's just a hood needs jailed
'A worthless Rag'.. about right.
One place for that man prison
MCN is a gutter press rag and people should just avoid it, end of!!!!
Has anyone physically walked into a police station, with a solicitor and made an actual complaint against garner and norton ? The police can not refuse to investigate a serious complaint, fraud, or theft of parts or something of that sort.
The bikes were beautifull somebody was putting their heart and soul into them
some of the racers looked the nuts. but mcguiness said he was 'shitting himself' every time he went out on norton at iom. it was that bad a bike apparently
I believe they are all designed by the legend Simon Skinner. stunning bikes.
Styling is just styling. Let's not get all dewy-eyed about it. It's easy and quite common to incorporate classic retro styling elements and any number of reputable custom bike builders do it all the time.
Thank you Mr Fillingham. The Norton story is tragic. Living on the East Coast of USA I've been watching the Norton story evolve. The bikes where achingly beautiful.
Garner has ruined at least two great companies and many peoples lives. He deserves to be punished with the full weight of the law, however I suspect he will get off with a slap on the wrist. He has been getting away with it all of his life....
Andy Scott Perhaps he will be ‘taken care of’ in some other special way 🤨
Hope everyone will forgive me from stating the obvious points, not least because someone has probably already done so. Somewhere out there in Norton rider land there must be someone with contacts in the press or BBC news, who will be looking for a juicy story. They won’t care about political background ( for instance the BBC aren’t biased, it’s just that the Tories/Labour/Monster Raving Loonies don’t always agree with what they say).
This would be a ideal subject for Panorama. I’m not a Norton owner but have watched this disaster unfold and a once - proud British bike name being trashed. Your local BBC station might be the first place to try, or an email / phone call to the Panorama office at the BBC might work. Would suggest pulling together as many contacts / stories as possible from both annoyed buyers and ripped-off pensioners as possible. Just a thought!
His other companys eg the Priest House also suffered from Garner and his dodgy business behaviour. He is an out and out crook.
A good insight into the issue at Norton, although a difficult watch. My father bought a Norton brand new in 1960 ( a bike which is still in the family) he was a Norton man through & through. He will be turning in his grave at the current situation.
Mate this is a sad and sorry tale for what is British motorcycle history. Came across this by chance and in a way wish I hadn't because it does put the industry in a poor light, seemingly because of the actions of one individual. Really feel for those who have lost so much money on something of a passion which is a iconic British bike. On the other hand the question that needs an answer is, Why no pay back and justice? Thanks for posting.
Thanks for this follow up Stuart. Appreciate the time you put in!
Hi, Just a thank you for your two articles on this awful debacle, one can only hope that something can be done about the gross and callous indifference shown by the people involved in regard to others hard earned money and goodwill. Stu.
Great presentation Stuart. One word that sums this all up and you have already mentioned it. It's a "scandal", no question about it...
As someone who worked with Norton in a variety of capacities, I was saddened then shocked at the outrages that have come to light. I am also surprized that no criminal investigation and or charges been filed against Stuart Garner...... If Norton returns in another guise, it will take a huge amount of goodwill to recover and or gain faith with the cycling public.....Thank you for your comments and insights
Absolutely shocking stuff
Whenever someone doesn’t get investigated and there’s a big cover up then suspect that they belong to a secret society.
He went from a game keeper assistant to poacher robbing people 🇬🇧👍
Thanks for informing us, Stuart! Please let us know of future developments on this topic.
Another excellent review. Thank you UncleSTU.
I do have a lot of experience in this area of corruption, mostly working overseas but when I came back to the UK a few years back I found that I need not have bothered with all that international travel as London is the money laundering and most corrupt Capital in the world!
It's all about where the interest lies.
Think of the Prime Minister as the CEO of some large Corporate business, lets call it UK Plc. And his Cabinet are his Board of Directors. But who is the Chairman? Perhaps that position should be a social conscious, or that sense of doing the right thing?
The CEO's job is to run the Board but his primary concern is to look after the share price. If a big scandal gets out usually the CEO's first thought is "how do I protect the share price?" His second thought is usually and "how do I protect my huge salary and bonus payments?"
Boris has a lot on his plate at the moment but I guess he is thinking something like "not another problem of incompetence and ineptitude! I really don't need this right now". So to protect UK Plc, the best course of action will be to bury bad news and protect all is well and that the CEO and the Board are doing a good job of running things.
In all the investigations that I have worked on, this is usually the outcome. Bad news is buried, the CEO smiles and carries on regardless, the share price holds up, the board is just as incompetent and nothing really changes. Except perhaps the CEO starts looking for a way out, with as big a bonus and pension package he can negotiate.
The slight difference this time is that the former CEO of UK Plc was sacked.The new CEO is only just coming to terms with just how bad things really are.
UK Plc still lacks a Chairman to whom the CEO and the Board are accountable. On paper that should be the Royal Family but I'm not sure they are up to the job, like a lot of Chairman.
So the lesson from this story is that, if you want to rip off people really big time, get sponsorship from politicians, the government and even the royal Family (a couple of photos of the future King endorsing your non-existent product will do) then you will be untouchable!
I think ALL corporations are all smoke and mirrors nowdays. Corporation motto: Never give a sucker an even break. This happens a lot in the states. They take full payment for merchandise that they know full well, won't be delivered.
Excellent summary, Stuart. And accurate conclusions.
But do let us know when the threatening letters from MCN’s Solictors, claiming reputation damage, arrive.
It’s bound to be their first, panic, response!
Is this Garner bloke related to the one in the Rockford Files ?
It’s fair to say “he’s pulled the wool over everyone’s eyes” from the Politicians, to the James Bond movies makers, to the Henry Cole production team, to the everyday man in the street like me and you.
If all the accusations are true then he his no better than the likes of Robert Maxwell and Phillip Green and should be held to task by the powers that be.
Maybe the politicians are so embarrassed by the whole thing it will all just get swept under the carpet ? Only time will tell, great video again Stuart 👍🏼
Hi Neil. Couldn't agree more. Sadly it seems time and time again that when you reach a certain level in the 'establishment' that you get away with pretty much anything. Your examples are perfect, Prince Andrew.....mmmm....dont know what we plebs can do about stuff like this. Feel,so sorry for the Norton workers and customers everywhere.
What a racket! It’s a heck of a shame that such potential was ruined by mismanagement and what appears to be corruption of the worst kind. It seems to me that just on price point alone they would have had their work cut out to be competitive against established manufacturers. And I know they were probably targeting wealthier individuals, but even so ? Given the price of an original Norton Commando these days maybe it makes sense. But the lack of government oversight and intervention is unforgivable and you really have to ask , apart from Garner, who benefits? It would be wonderful to see this historic British brand truly resurrected but any chance of that is likely well gone now.
Great job Stuart !
It did make my blood boil, but I thank u for uploading It!
I'm sure they will find a solution to save NORTON. Would be a shame to lose such a nice motorcycle brand
Is this the Paul Santos from NS Canada if so hi Paul it’s Karl
The name is now so tarnished that even its bright history can not be repolished. Its dead beyond death. I would rather resurrect another great name, it would be much easier.
exactly what's wrong with britain. 'brand' my arse. 'lifestyle' my arse. marketing degrees - b/s. mcguiness said he was 'shitting himself' every time he went out on norton at iom. it was that bad a bike. brand = arse
If you like brands, find a cattle ranch and enjoy the endorphins!!! Norton died in the first place because it could'nt read the market and change. It has now died in the second place because the market enjoyed nostalgia and failed to read it. Bury it deep, I say and look forward to new innovative designers and companies.
I'm an IFA and was approached by a potential client some years ago for advice on putting his pension into Norton. he came to me because of my long involvement with MAG going back to 1981. I advised him against it and off he went. More recently another client came to me intending cashing in his pension to buy one. I've just advised him to go buy a Triumph instead.
My favourite bike as a youngster was a Commando 750 and 850 and seeing Bike magazine with the new 961 being sold. When I was in a position to buy the bike, I ordered it.
Fortunately I realised this was deception and I ordered a closing down order on Norton. I eventually got my money back.
Sorry for those that got caught by evil Garner.
How and why did you realise it was a deception?
@@threethrushes Because I was given excuses for over a year about why delivery was delayed. Having paid in full I eventually cancelled the order and asked for my money back. It was apparent from what I found out on Internet forums that I was not the only person unable to get a bike or a refund.
I owned a 1971 Commando 750 way back when. Beautiful bike & ran like a bat out of hell. Sad that it's legacy has come to this
@@G100666 More I hear about Mr. Garner, the more I feel that a documentary will be made about him...
Gerhard Symons I do hope so. Something on the lines of the old Panorama exposes.
It may have been nostalgia but I was hoping that Norton would return to the market place! As a former owner of an Atlas and a Commando Interstate guess my memories got in the way of due diligence. Guess like some dreams this one won’t be coming true! Too bad the bikes looked great and could have been a true niche bike!
Finally someone who reports in unbiased review of the motorcycle industry.
Well done Stuart and keep it up.
Great vid as usual and lets just hope that MCN NEVER gets any more air time on other UA-cam channels because they have been less than straight (trust me really want to say more but I’m respectful of not using bad language) in terms of how they reported on this, like you i simply wouldn’t put their paper on my toilet roll. Great vid Stuart.
Reading how all this is unfolding, it is little wonder no criminal charges have yet been brought, nor should it be any surprise that the public would not be kept abreast of any ongoing investigation. With regard to a government enquiry as to the 5 million pounds of public money given to Norton, 1) It would make financial sense to discover the extent of the criminal activities before beginning a government enquiry which would simply re-investigate many of the issues the CPS and police would have already covered, 2) A government enquiry at this stage could potentially hamper a criminal investigation. 3) Why have a government enquiry that could cost as much as the money that was given in the first place? With regard to MCN's lack of investigative and balanced journalism prior to the collapse of Norton ...is anyone seriously surprised there? Garner was certainly canny enough to scmooze a few journalists for some good PR.
Total agreement 👍🏻Plus your correct MCN is akin to the Beano. Actually people that read the Beano have more intelligence.
A really sad and sorry take for those who lost money to this crook. Your vid Stuart is informative and well told.
Surely criminal proceedings are going to be forthcoming, especially if the people who lost out petition the police and/or there MP’s demanding he be investigated.
Well said, Stuart. I feel sorry for those investors and enthusiasts who lost money and I feel angry at the incompetent and corrupt government for adding my money to that when so much service infrastructure is failing.
Brilliant follow up and well researched ! So many people in favoured and privileged positions seem to be involved in this outrageous con of the decade. It beggars belief that there's no obvious action being taken by the SFO or any arrests being made - no doubt a lot of politicians and less reputable folk from the media in behind the scenes CYA mode. A shame this distinguished brand and that of Spondon has been trashed by such an unscrupulous individual. It is my sincere hope that justice will prevail in this sorry saga and that those who placed their trust and money in this venture will eventually be reimbursed. Thanks Stuart for sharing your research and findings. ATB from Malaysia
Stuart F, "You did us proud" & thank you for put this together!
Hi Stuart,
This was indeed a tragic episode in the life of British industry in general. There are far too many rogues running far too many companies, Robert Maxwell was one of the first one that I heard of to rob pension funds, and he was a Labour MP, it appears that greed knows no boundaries.
I do agree with you regarding your assessment of MCN - I fail to understand how it keeps it’s readership, it isn’t editorial style or content, but there you go.
All the best keep these exposes coming.
Sounds like a case for the Serious Fraud Office.
Likely he is skating because of family contacts. Norton is a great name and worth saving.
Thank you Stuart for your clear and logical summary of the Norton saga, you’re a breath of fresh air amid the hype and nonsense we so often hear. I really feel for the people affected by this mess, we should all write to our local MP to demand a proper investigation.
Stuart...it was desperately sad..to hear the sordid breakdown details of a modern day British Iconic company's fraudulent sequence of financial demise and the complete lack of a credible government and police response. Many of us bike lovets who literally worshipped at the Norton marquee are devaststed. Thanks for your in depth searches and pragmatic presentations. Another credit worthy Fillingham Flick for the history files. ✌
I’ve met Garner regarding doing some marketing work with Norton. I didn’t in the end but I have to say, in person it’s easy to see how a lot of this has happened. He’s a very convincing bloke. And I guess within the circles that he’s worked his way into, that goes a very long way.
Another articulate well constructed video with some very posing questions for MCN and the Government. I think that point is a huge factor in credibility and how it drew people in to a deposit, purchase or off loading their whole pension.
As mentioned previously, the factory tours felt like a showroom with the odd tool box in it. Looking back I can’t believe I went along with it for so many years, I used to be a used car salesman you would of thought I would have known better!
I would love to hear the comments of the likes of Sean Kynnersley who was UK sales and service manager 6 years ago (decent bloke and feel sure he left because he knew it was all smoke and mirrors) Clem Croft who was also UK Sales Manager (again short term in the job), Lee Frankish International Dealer Manager (tried to do the decent thing), Ian Large in accounts (what secrets does he know)and not least Mr Skinner who was as close as anyone to Garner and the daily workings of the company and is implicit as SG.
It seems clear to any layman they are banged to rights, but I bet through the Ltd company and more waffle than a waffle maker he will get off scott free, bar losing his previous inflated ego. Let’s hope not and the ordinary folk get their hard earned back, and a buyer with integrity and passion comes along and takes up the mantle and restores faith in the brand, come on Mr Bloor you know you want to. Triton anyone...
My thoughts all along . Mr Bloor should be given a knighthood in my opinion for the success he has had with Triumph, all funded out of his own back pocket . The only man on this planet who could make a success of Norton . Remember the 70s NVT. Going back to me SG he deserves what's coming to him hopefully in the near future.
I had a run in with motorcycle news in 2003,they would not print a letter I sent regarding my 2002 Honda pan European and it’s very poor quality and problems from day one,I was contacted by a journalist who was working for Honda and writes in the motorcycle news who obviously did not want to publish anything bad against Honda,a few days later Honda female rep rings me but by this time I wanted a refund on the new bike but was refused...so I think all the journalists who write for mcn work for one manufacturer or another and will not print anything showing a bad light.
This is true for most well-known motorcycle news outlets because they are heavily dependent on advertising revenue.
The Norton saga has had an effect on me that I'm not going to buy mcn anymore I'd bloody thought garner would get a Knighthood not the ball and chain he really needs to receive media hype sad really cause the product looked good 😢
9:42 The issue is that if they investigate, the 'gubment will be embarrassed for it's incompetence.
Thanks, so sad. old Norton owner.
Brilliant stuff Stuart, really, very interesting. Please keep going on this subject as and when you get enough material. You're bang on with your style and content. I was interested in an Atlas as an 'affordable' Norton and made a few enquiries. Just the garbled responses and terrible communication I received were enough to put me off thankfully. Buy some shares, sir. Oh no, sorry, now we've found a big investor so the share deal is suddenly off........? Eh?And MCM should definitely step up and admit they were wrong, at the very least.
I feel so sorry for the investors and buyers that were duped and lost their hard earned money, and also for the British tax payer. I'm outraged that the Government threw public money at a venture without proper scrutiny ( not the first or last time, we're used to that ) The biggest tragedy of all, in my view as a motorcycle enthusiast, is that the legendary Norton brand has been forever tarnished and pissed down the toilet. A very sad story.
My uncle Fred was foreman of the cylinder head line at Norton, back in the early 1970s, when I had a Gus Kuhn Norton Commando (I also had a cousin who worked at Triumph back then, when the lads were trying to keep that factory going) so it breaks my heart to hear about all this. Hopefully a new buyer can be found and the name will live on...and the pensioners who invested their life savings get a fair go.
Thanks for a proper report. Keep updating. You’re good at telling the truth unlike the rest of society as we know it. Thanks
I'm out of touch with all this... Norton have folded and so have Spondon? Holy balls Stuart Garner needs a proper kicking and some jail time
Thank you very much for a brilliant post....I was suckered in by this thief and very proud of the Norton but now feel gutted and I feel for all the lads n lasses who have lost their jobs,i cant even imagine the pain those folks who's lost their investments feel....anyway having been buying and reading MCN since the early 70's I for one WILL NOT BE SUBSCRIBING TO THIS PAPER ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Couldn't agree more about MCN. Wouldn't wrap my chips in the useless rag.
thank you Stuart, fine hatchet job ( meant as a compliment) sums up my feelings over many years watching Norton being dragged through the mud
Another insightful video, Stuart. It’s a crying shame that a fine old British name should be dragged through the mud by a man who seems to be pathologically dishonest, facilitated by MCN and others in the motorcycling press. I feel so sorry for all those who have lost out financially and materially, as well as for those now looking for new jobs.
Completely agree with you, criminal charges need bringing against this crook. There seems to be one rule for some people and another for the rest of us peasants. Makes my blood boil
"Thankyou" for your update.
I will always love Norton and just want this sorted, so it can move on as one of the legendary marks in the motorbike industry that it deserves to be.
Well done Stuart, thanks for publicising Garner's deceipt and plight of innocent buyers.
Well put together Stuart. Always interesting and entertaining.👍
Really good video. So often scammers like Garner seem to get away with it and I can never understand why or how. I certainly cannot see why this does not become a criminal investigation and perhaps after the pensions mess is sorted out it will. At least we can all hope so anyway. Keep up the good work.
Brilliant exposé. The Phoenix Four made about £40m, mostly taxpayer money while running what was left of BL into the buffers. Our governments seem awfully keen to hand over public money to this type of "entrepreneur" with zero diligence or accountability.
Last year I passed a fashion outlet in London and, in the window, on display was a lovely looking 961. Shame so few got to receive theirs.
Hi Stuart, great video. I’m an accountant in Australia reality is the administrator of Norton will be investigating a lot of the issues. I would humbly suggest the police wouldn’t be that interested as it’s a financial crime and limited resources are spent on other issues. The administrator will submit a report to the UK corporate authorities who will file it away and do nothing, like they do in Australia.
The police should be interested and have powers that a simple administrator could only dream of. However I believe their lack of action could be due to other forces in play.
stuart fillingham maybe but generally in my experience police are just too busy to take the time and effort to properly investigate fraud, they are happier getting the arrests and convictions for easier to prove crimes. The administrator will probably bankrupt Garner and sell off his ill gotten gains.
@@stevehamilton306 I think the police only concentrate on activities that generate revenue these days, they dont really do crime anymore unless its covered by the media and they have to be seen to be doing something.
Here we go again.. Philip Le Roux, Amber Rudd / Stuart Garner, Teresa May.. what is it with Norton, dodgy owners & dodgy politicians?
“Please refrain from swearing in the comments”. You’re absolutely right, but *&£! me listening to all that makes my blood boil, as does the knowledge that he’ll probably get away with it leaving a trail of destruction in his wake.
Thx Stuart, very interesting.
....just been watching Jay Leno and his 1962 Norton SS 650 ....and this is the bike that would have sold very well if a modern remake had been manufactured , like the Royal Enfield 650 Interceptor has !
Another great, if not depressing video Stuart. Personally I have no issue with HMG investment in worthwhile British ventures but this must be attached to responsible due diligence and an on-going responsibility to ensure that the UK tax payer is getting an acceptable return...just like any investor. Investments obviously come with risks but to throw our money at a 'questionable' management 'team' is a very basic error...and may explain HMG's zero appetite for an inquiry.
A very British disaster. Probably the best metaphor for the current depressing decline the UK is now in. Interesting to see the incompetence of the so called 'party of business'. I'm afraid my dog is a more competent business analyst than the tory government. I'm so sad to see what has been done to both Spondon Engineering and Norton Motorcycles. The answer to the question of why pretty much nothing is happening with a view to investigating criminal activities or otherwise is because UK law has been evolved to protect people who defraud, steal or otherwise act badly in business and to move the consequences and fallout onto anyone but the culprits. I'd like especially to see people like Cameron, Fox et al face some consequences for their hubris and incompetence in handing out other people's money without any checks, balances or knowledge of the industry.
Enlightening, it explains why when I was at a classic motorcycle meeting in Australia early last year and there was a Norton stand there, the guy at the stand, who was a representative of one of the Australian distributors was advising everyone who spoke with him NOT to buy a Norton! He mostly said that every Norton that had been delivered in Australia had been returned with warranty issues which had not been fixed.
If that was someone on DWP benefits they be in the jail never trust a person who use profanities when talking business sums up Britain at the top rotten to the core
Thats where he should be too
Its a sad story and an insult to many people and to the name Norton!! And I agree....there should of course be an investigation and someone should pay and go to jail
Thank you for your candid post. I really appreciate it.
Stopped buying MCN a while ago, pleased i did now. Great stuff Stuart
The 1st motorcycle I ever owned was a Norton. This is such a shame. Hopefully someone with integrity and it looks like, deep pockets, can step in get the brand back on track and yes, reimburse the investors. Of course, Unicorns are also real.
Stuart, a very competent analysis but a very sad one for all the investors including those that sank their pensions into the project and those that laid down their hard earned cash for the bikes that never materialised and/or were waiting for their bikes to be repaired under warranty. It would be good if Royal Enfield could pick up the pieces.
As a friend of a mechanic who worked for Norton I got an insight to the working of Norton I asked if he would buy a bike from them he replied definitely not as a bike Triumph were a better buy the majority of the parts were substandard the workforce were very unhappy with the situation and working practices
Maybe the reason the government don’t want to investigate Stuart Garner, is the outcome would point the finger at them for being stupid giving
hardworking taxpayers money to a man who should remained as a assistant gamekeeper all his working life.
excellent video. thanks for this as I live in BKK I up to date now. keep up the good work. Agree 100% about MCN
Truly amazing that this man has not yet had his collar felt. My MCN subscription will be terminated today. What were they thinking?
Well done along with mine a few months ago and they knew (MCN) something was wrong back in 2012 and continued to plug the brand right up to the end of last year! (2018)
There is one glimmer of a silver lining in all this. For the most part, the bikes are achingly beautiful. Step in someone of the same mould as John Bloor and maybe the name can be resurrected again?
John Bloor doesn't want the Norton brand
I agree Tim, in fact for some years I have considered at least writing to John Bloor asking, nay begging him to somehow acquire Norton, even if it means there are no more bikes ever actually being built to carry the Norton name, I am sick of the continuing prostitution of this famous name, and I believe Mr Bloor has the integrity , and has proved it with his success with the Triumph venture, to save the name, if not the business. This I feel is better than the name going to some foreign buyer to produce some ersatz machine with Norton on the tank
@@iainian , sorry didn't know that
@@davidchadwick1892 Apparently that may have been the plan of Garner 8 / 10 years ago but wanted too much money. I've read that John Bloor put £90 million of his own money when he bought the Triumph brand in 1983 to make it what it is today!
yeah , then move production to Thailand
Game reserve? Botswana. Castle- 8 vehicles. I wonder if he would do tours. Sit inside the fence, while he is on display. I mean - an elephant cage should be good enough. The locals could keep him fed on dry grasses and other fibre foods. A bucket of river water - you would not want him drying out! You might even include a piece of tin, to give him shade, in the heat of the day. Picture the Stanley Lion story. Oliver and his stick. I think I would pay to view that. Sadly - people stealing money - well - they let it slide. Its a little too embarrassing to have the China juggernaut ripping off the Chinese in their own back yard.
Such a shame as the bikes where quite stunning, think mcn should definitely apologise for such heavy plugging
Well as the administrators are legally bound to report criminal activity .
Hopefully Garners scamming ways will put him behind bars for a very long time
Thanks, Stuart. Please let us know as official investigations begin and come to some results.
Very well put together video. Thank you for sharing
Put Norton motorcycles back on road
Stinks of establishment to me, sem's to be no accountability these days.
Exactly it's already been decided that they will get off. Long before we've heard about it
I owned a Norton many years ago, I have had many bikes since and still love only 2.
That Norton 850 and the Ducati 900SSFE. So when I saw the Norton mark coming back my heart raced... I believe I wasn’t the only one.
Stuart Garner should be arrested for Fraud and obtaining money by deception. Anyone who worked on the bikes that were in for warranty work, should also be done for handling stolen goods. Those bikes were no longer the property of Norton. It is theft. The definition of that is “ A person is guilty of theft if they dishonestly appropriate property belonging to another and to permanently deprive” which if they did by using the parts from owners bikes to finish others. The act of theft is there.
Garner needs to be fully investigated.
What is Scotland yard doing about this they should be seizing all his assets.
I hope someone revives the Norton and starts to make the old models again , the 750 Commando Roadster and the 750 Fastback
WOW, thank you for this one Stuart.
I had no idea ... what a shame to see the sinking of such an iconic name and sadness for the suffering of some of the people it dragged along as casualties, all for pure greed.
Only a criminal mind can achieve that!
Thank you Stuart, there must be some celebrity figures within the motorcycling community that now look rather stupid for the publicity that they gave to this man. With the immunity he seems to have, I wouldn't be surprised if Mr Garner doesn't get a peerage out of it for services to industry!
Thank you for a very informative video. as a Spondon owner I did know that Norton used their frames but did not know the rest of that story. absolutely a shame!!!
I'd love to see a Spondon Engineering video if anyone has more information about them. I know that Gia Engineering was started by someone who worked for Spondon.
Absolute disgrace and as someone else said on here if it was any ordinary member of the public did this they would be locked up immediately. Because it was a well heeled "Business Man/Entrepeneur" he is allowed to get away with it. Let's see if the powers that be pursue this with the same vigour they do with benefit cheats......
Garner is one man, it was Norton employees that stole parts off customers motorcycles which had come in for warranty work, and Norton employees that phoned customers to defraud them into paying the full balance for a motorcycle that didn't exist.
Whilst Norton employees were doing this, other Norton employees either went along with it, or covered it up by failing to report it to the police!
These Norton employees that defrauded customers into paying in full for non existing motorcycles and personally stole parts off customers motorcycles are at least as guilty as their despicable boss!
The complicit MCN aided and abetted the deceptions and thefts!