The Scandalous Demise of NORTON Motorcycles ! WHAT HAPPENED?
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- Опубліковано 14 гру 2024
- Shocking news that Norton had gone in to receivership over the week end. False reporting from the motorcycle press? Millions owed to investors, customers and pensioners!
PayPal Donations. threelittlefishes@live.co.uk
PATREON. / stuartfillingham
#stuartfillingham
AF, here. Thank you for making this video. I live in the Los Angeles Area. My son and I decided after all the hoopla surrounding the tests on the prototype along with their results, that we would buy a Norton Motorcycle. We went to the Long Beach area, more or less to the only Norton dealer anywhere around for hundreds or maybe thousand of miles and put a deposit on one. We then waited the requisite period. Then we waited longer. Finally I asked the dealer for my deposit back on the bike and my son also wanted his deposit back. We attempted to get our money back. We went through a song and dance of not being able to deal with the people that sold the bike to us. Then we went on line and discovered an unusual number of lawsuits against the dealer and/or its employees. We contacted the better business bureau who seemed satisfied with the response it got, with promises to return the deposit not filled. Next step was to retain an attorney who wrote a letter to the dealer indicating that if the money was not returned within 30 days, a law suit would ensue. We provided our names, addresses and phone numbers. Within the 30 days, we got our money back. At the time, I mentioned to my son that things did not look good at the dealer or at Norton. I also doubted that Norton would be able to establish a U. S. network. The trouble supposedly had to do with meeting various U. S. standards in connection with the delay. Once we had our deposits back, we stopped following Norton. Now today, many years later, we find that Norton is extensively in debt; that there's been a conviction for fraud and that it appears money earmarked for actual motorcycle construction went elsewhere; no Norton's being built. It appears to me that a bunch of bespoke Nortons were built with some kept around for view, but darn few delivered to customers. I met one person in Los Angles who received their Norton but he had gone to extraordinary lengths to obtain it, including going to France from Los Angeles and somehow buying and obtaining one in France; riding it around a bit, and then having it shipped to the United States as a used bike and finally picking it up at the docks himself. I believe he then had some custom work done on the bike. After that, I never heard what followed with that one bike. At the Long Beach dealer, there was one bike in the shop window. And that was my experience with the Norton motorcycle that was supposed to make a big comeback. Because the primary motorcycle built and tested and the star of motorcycle magazines, did appear to have become a great bike. Now it looks like a grand scheme to defraud various sources of millions upon millions of dollars and leaving good people in the lurch. (From Southern California, USA.)
Dear sir just saw your sad experience we are British and to hear what happened to everyone is heartbreaking. I'm writing this 12 months on from this .x hope you are still biking. We have just bought a royal Enfield meteor its beautiful. We have had big bikes all our lives, but are now 72 yrs x 70 yrs old .happy motorcycling .john x Linda Bellamy UK .
Been away from bikes for quite awhile. I once restored and rode a black and gold '71 Commando. Sold it in 2001 for $5,000 American. Guy came all the way from Colorado to Michigan to buy it. It was near flawless. Didnt realize Norton had started producing bikes again! Now they're going under again? Sad, very sad. Triumph and BSA got a lot of press, but the 750 Commando would kick both their asses, and was nearly vibration free. I remember Tom Cristiansen (T.C.) setting 1/4 mile records on his twin engined Commando. I'll tell you this: Even though mine wasn't the "Combat" engine (glad too!), the top gear acceleration from around 65-75mph for its day (nearly 50 years ago), was almost unbelievable.......
Freeze his assets, impound his property, and send his carcass to prison. No parole, no pardon, and rescind his right to do business,,,,,, ever.
I totally agree.
Rip off artist. I agree, after possessions are sold, give the people who layed down deposits there money back. Lots of jail time is in order.
Rick Da Division Grampa yeah to right
Hopefully gets what he deserves.
Dead right man. Very sad.... but the government should actually nationalise it? like its a growing market there, more people on the roads, and need less sized vehicles and e technology and not to mention us lazy bastards who use Uber eats????? BUY BORIS BUY!!!! Regards from Ireland but the government would make money for the people like??? its that iconic!
It’s another MG Rover scam, buy the company for peanuts, borrow loads and then let it go bust
Another Rip off too late waste of time ,
You forget, after the purchase of rover by the Chinese, they took the machines and a handful of staff to China. Then let it fold.
@@derf9465 probably wanted the technology I heard they did similar with planes
Stunning looking bikes indeed. I am glad that I waited for my hip replacement, before wasting my money on a pre-order.
Direct drive owned rover and a load of dealerships and a car auction ... it all went tits up
I used to work for Norton as a purchaser. In spite of having money upfront for sold motorcycles that weren’t even built, They always had poor cash flow. Couldn’t afford to build bikes and deliver on time. Owed thousands to suppliers and we’re blacklisted by many, almost all their suppliers insisted on pro-forma payments, which Norton couldn’t pay. Stuart Garner is a despicable person, treating most staff like dirt while lining his own pockets. He got what he deserved and I hope he gets more of it. Glad I left years ago, feel sorry for the lads on the shop floor.
I sorry to hear all this. The motorcycle world would have welcomed the new Nortons.
Never owned one but always admired the Nortons. Sad story of greed and corruption.
Yeah and they got bought by TVS Motors an Indian manufacturer.
It’s the common story of this country nowadays, expect this to be a reoccurring theme in the coming years. There’s very little integrity, pride, or honesty left.
It's not only the story of the UK, it's the story worldwide. Companies are stripped of their money and assets routinely now and by the time the creditors start complaining the people responsible are long gone, leaving an empty shell behind. This all started when hedge-funds swarmed out from the USA and apllied their "craft" worldwide.
indeed...that got left behind in Mainland Europe
Sir....you nailed with your comment and am very sad to say that in my opinion this trait ( being the operative word) is synonymous with the this country today where 48 % are hard working people striving to do their best and the other 52 %..... well....
@Leigh Garfield British engineers teaching the Japanese to build motorcycles is an interesting idea but I would doubt that is true, if you look at the emergence of lightweight and middleweight bikes that were appearing in the world markets in the late 50's and 60's from the biggest Japanese manufacturer Honda they do not look like something the British would design.
The thing is Edward Turner the head of Britain's largest manufacturer BSA, which encompassed BSA, Triumph, Ariel James and Francis Barnet, toured Japan in 1960 to assess Japans threat to Britain's motorcycle industry and despite noting that Honda could churn out 750.000 units a year compared to BSA's 27,000 units he came back home, buckled down and did nothing preferring to carry on producing bikes designed in the 30's with engineering methods that could not produce the numbers required even if they could expand their market.
There was some serious resting being done on laurels, when people could buy bikes that had electric starts, reliable engines with no oil leaks and were more advanced at a cheaper price then things were going to start going badly for the British motorcycle industry even with the advantage of having loyal customers the slow reaction to Japanese competition was the start of the long slippery road, it was not because BSA could not design more advanced bikes it was just that they did not see the need and therefore the die was cast.
Well, its what the bloody ttories call "free enterprise' and that was the free bit. For him and his mates.
One can only hope that some burly biker type (who's lost his deposit or more) and perhaps a few of his mates finds Mr Garner before the authorities do. Deserves everything coming to him to destroy a fabulous name like Norton.
One sure way of setting an example
I just feel so very sorry for those that were Conned out of their Pension Pots and have probably lost everything...As for the bikes they can be resurrected and do not really matter..A sad tale of what looks like Deception on a Grand scale.
Dave Lee its not too difficult. Create a pension fund get everybody on board and when its worth a big stash of money go into bankruptcy. When a company is bankrupt it doesn't have to pay out.
Due diligence includes NEVER investing pensions in vanity motor vehicle projects. Anyone who isn't an expert should perform their own due diligence and only invest in proven, established firms with solid track records. Enthusiasm has no place in money management. Deposits are likewise foolish. If I can't buy it COD and ride it home, I don't need that vehicle. The rich can afford to throw away money but those not wealthy should have harsh rules and stick to them. I'm the customer. This is the modern era. Serve me or die.
Just a swanky crook story, I bet he is still living a life of luxury unlike his workers.
I know an experienced quality inspector who was driven out of the company after he raised issues about the poor quality of Chinese imported components.
String the worthless bastard up, I say.
Let's see, Pension money disappears, Garner was the SOLE Trustee, the Pension subsidiary lent Norton £990K, but he claims it was some other guy what did it. Then Winding up order from Metro Bank, to which Garner claims it was HMRC £300K tax bill. Taking millions in advance orders which were never fulfilled, Garner claims his suppliers are withholding. Garner is either incompetent, unlucky or this has been one long fiddle to milk the money. Pity the people who paid the full £40K and will get nothing after HMRC and Metro have taken their money. I bet Garner isn't skint.
Garner should face public enquiry. I'd also ask what in gods name were the financial auditors doing in this fiasco......another Carillion perhaps ?
I'll give you two bets:
1: Garner isn't skint
2: nothing will happen to Garner
@@stephenshipley1066 If the banking scandal is any guide you are going to win both your bets.
@@stephenshipley1066 If the Administrators decide to liquidate, Garner walks away free, claiming it was them. If there isn't enough money to make motorcycles, you can damn well bet whatever's left will be split between Metro & HMRC.
Pension funds should be ring fenced in all companies this part is fault of the govenment and the law!
Hi Stuart. Thanks for taking the time to prepare this video.
I first read about Mr. Garner and his purchase of the Norton name together with manufacture of the new Commando in Bike Magazine's August 2010 issue.
I had always loved the Commando and ordered one, paying the full cost up front.
To cut a long story short, delivery was considerably delayed and, having read about the many customers who were in the same position, I cancelled my order and requested a refund.
It ended up with me employing a solicitor and threatening to issue a winding up order before finally getting a refund.
It's looking more like an elaborate con job than a serious business.
If the figures quoted by you are correct, there are many customers around the world who will be disappointed after collectively paying millions.
A great shame.
Its a tory story
What a crying shame. That Commando cafe racer is pure class-I still want one
And there is a problem actually. You "still want" one instead of having one because you can't afford it :D The reason is purely honest and economic-proved. Norton bikes are extremely overpriced for the product they offer.
Many thanks for doing this Stuart. I didn't realise the full extent of the situation until now, so it's only greatly appreciated that you've shared the information you've gleaned on this shambolic state of affairs. I'm pretty confident that this uber-trixter will somehow manage to squirm out of his financial & moral responsibilities at the company without it having any effect on the lifestyle he's accustomed to - which is more than can be said for the poor sods at Norton who will be receiving their P45's (if they haven't already). The figures you have quoted are staggering. All this from a company that found hundreds of thousands to market their ambitions at the TT - whilst failing to fulfill their obligations to customers who'd spent their hard-earned on deposits on bikes they'll probably never see. A veritable FUBAR situation & a complete disgrace.
By no means the first case of its kind. Reminds me of Delorean. I have renewed admiration for what John Bloor has achieved with Triumph. They seem to be the exception.
And Delorean got 80 million quid of public money!!
@@vinparaffin6082 and it was worth considerably more then!.
Delorean sold cocaine to pay bills.
Such a sad situation. Workers and customers being conned and a great bike brand full of history disappears. Accountability is needed, mere justice. As said, so sad.
Have been following you for a while now and subscribed today as so impressed with your honest and accurate posts. As a long time rider and collector for over 50 years I can tell you that you are one of a very few who tell it the way it is, and almost unique on the interweb except maybe three or four others. I don't spend much time online as prefer to ride(!) but will make the effort to read your stuff whenever possible. Many thanks and hope all goes well for you in this Bear Pit called The Internet.
That sucks buddy, fellow motorcyclist. Some of the most iconic bikes. Cheers from Canada.
You've got to feel sorry for the workers who have been shafted big time, and obviously all the folks who put deposits down on a bike, I always thought competing at the TT was a total waste of money for such a small company, the Atlas models were the way forward not exotic £45,000 V4s very few could afford...
The TT wasn't a waste of money for S.G. All that bike had to do was get 3 laps in and S.G. collects 60k appearance fee.
@Eric Gomersall Well if they ordered by credit card they'll should get their money back. I was covered that way when Barmix went bust in Oz, so got all my money back & ended up getting a free bamix in the end anyway
. None of this happened by accident, the UK is not what it seems.Spare a thought for all the engineers & workers who worked in this illusion of a company, best of luck mates.
UK is being swiped from every angle.. boris has signed documents which forces us to cut down on carbon emissions in the next 5 years, gas boilers will be outlawed, add this to banning in areas of cars the closing down of British Home Stores Panama papers...its about normal every day people owning bikes, cars and flying on holiday we will be given curfews on when to use electric and gas...
@John Stanley Don't forget VAT, once factored in then electronics are very similar in price. Homes are cheaper, in main because they are shot up in weeks, not months, timber construction is very fast.
However, our Gov has been pulling billions out of the local economy via austerity, which simply transfers the burden to councils who put up CT. CT is a totally regressive tax of the most egregious.
@John Stanley I'm agree there are instances where the UK distributer whacks a big markup on an item.
Last year I bought some electronics in the USA and brought them back here. I didn't pay VAT or any import duties. But when I did the sums, adding VAT and duties made the price comparable.
I guess it depends on what you are looking at. Give me some of your best examples?
@John Stanley Dyson is the Devil in my household! Those battery run vacuums...as they say a fool and his money etc.
I had a problem at the beginning of 2017 when I ordered a Commando through a supplier in Scotland. I paid a deposit of about £2000 and was told the delivery period would be about three months. Come the date specified there was no sign of the bike and I had been paying instalments on the loan to cover the balance - obviously the loan company having paid the balance straight to Norton.
Finally, after about another three months, I cancelled the order and managed at that time to get my deposit back as well as a refund on my payments to the finance company - I wonder if they got their money back?
It seems obvious to me now that the company at that time was trading whilst insolvent. I thought that was a criminal offence. (Shades of Robert Maxwell)
Trading whilst insolvent isn't illegal. Insolvent simply means the company hasn't enough cash flow to pay its creditors at a given point in time, which can be as simple as cost of sales are £100, sales invoices issued £200, sales receipts received as of yet £0 so at that point in time you are insolvent and trading until the receipt of money comes in. What is illegal, is trading to make a company insolvent on purpose in order to write down debts that would never of been sustained to start with..and that's the illegal bit..
Sad. I know someone in the trade and he's been hearing stuff for up to a year and warned me something was happening with Norton months ago, so I don't think anyone in the business is overly surprised. Still a massive shame though, I hope the management don't get off lightly! It would be great if someone took the name and atlas models forward. I think the commando have had their day now.
Just as in the early and towards the end years all they should have done was build 3 alternatives to the Triumph Bonneville range, Commando, Dminator and Atlas. Keep the spec down and concentrate on that for a few years regardless of this needless exclusive hand built nonsense. Build them and knock em out at a decent competitive price. Greed is the end of many companies.
Steve Steve Yeah - Keep it Simple! Like Royal Enfield did, Build Simple Affordable Single & Twin Cylinder Bikes, They are Killin' it in the 'Retro' Bike Market! Bad Management or Criminal???
@@purebloodheretic4682 it would be bad management if the product was poor quality, poor manufacture, poor advertising and so on but to use investers pensions, to float your business, to borrow from multiple sources, to part pay wages, to not fulfil your contracts, to flood development with no product and above all break promises is criminal, not even stupidity just plain criminal. Banks can take a hit but the average Joe can't afford to lose 10-20k or so with no hope of a refund.
@@purebloodheretic4682 - Yes, that conservative approach sounds like a wiser and surer way to go, AND
deep-pocket funding counts. Remember that Royal Enfield had a huge and loyal market in India already
going for decades when it started development of its Himalayan and 650cc twins. It looks to me like
China (and SE Asian sub-contractors) will take the lead in the decade ahead. Just check out CFMoto
and Zontes..
Build them at a competitive price with a handful of workers but not hand built that’ll work ... I think they achieved quite a lot but on their way to being cheaper but everyone knows better ..
@@motorcyclemadness6006 CCM seem to manage, same bike just different configurations. Norton wanted to be Billy big nuts, flash buggers. Buyers just want a name on a tank and reliable running gear for a reasonable price. As with RE & Triumph, give them a running bike and a parts catalogue, let the owner spec it up.
Thanks for all your hard work on another excellent video Stuart. This is a really sorry story, and after watching this, I can see that it was much worse than I realised. I feel for the workers, for customers that invested.and for unpaid suppliers
Sounds like somebody needs some jail time for shady dealings. Hopefully, an investor will step in and save the day.
Boris will pat him on the back. As they sit in some private club and share stiries on hoe theyve mugged everyone and as they laugh they'll be stashing dough in secret banks claiming to not know where it went
Bikes have been produced people have taken delivery previously, i think the demise started when Norton announced we are going racing again, the foreign engine tie up and investment for such a small bespoke, in this day and age, company, would be huge. Running before they could walk with established sales to fulfil the order book first etc. Great idea's but not enough in the foundations to sustain it. Not easy to run a business on credit and borrowed money like football clubs do. I feel sad that Norton became reincarnated and now thrown into scandal.
Had a 1962 Norton 650SS when I was 19 (53 years ago) Loved it because it was a Norton. Looked at the new Norton with nostalgic interest (could never afford one). So unbelievably sad that Garner and his crowd could feed off the passion for the marque and rip off so many ordinary people. Sadly, it's a "white collar" crime and I doubt anything will happen to him. The legal system and politicians all feed from the same trough.
I am absolutely flabbergasted and sad to hear this most unexpected events that has taken place in the UK to one of the most revered motor cycle manufacturer of all times.
As a motor cycle rider and enthusiast for several decades I am shocked.
A very sad state of affairs for so many people. Those Norton’s were absolutely stunning. That’s a hell of a lot of money that needs to be accounted for.
John Bloor did brilliantly with Triumph and was never a mouthy prick like Stuart Garner.
I so hope Garner ends up bankrupt and in prison.
@@G100666what a nice chap you are...
@@nortoncommando770 Not as nice as Mr. Garner.
@@G100666 Oh well. At least you don't hope he gets sodomized by mountain goats. So that's saying something...... Or do you?
@@DerangedResponse I hadn't thought of that... :)
With so many customers having paid money, & no bikes built for them. What were the workers doing all day?
Apparently not building bikes.
Such a shame, and like you, Stuart, I thought Norton was back for good. Fingers crossed there’s a new owner out there that’ll step in and keep the Norton brand alive 🤞
All the best,
Andy 🏴
Amen!! I had a 1972 750 Cammando.loved it and cry everyday beating my self up for selling it back in the day.
It's a very great shame, but hopefully Norton can be saved and don't disappear. Can't help but feel for all the people who have been ripped off etc.
WHAT A SHAME !!!
What a Shame!
What more can one say?
I feel so sad ! (French Norton fan)
Sounds similar to what happened with Rover cars back in 2005 .
Excellent summary Stuart! A guy I know's wife used to work there, reckoned Garner was a flaky git then, about 3 years back. A dealer I spoke to a while back said he could never get straight answers from them about deliveries, service, parts, etc. Riders have been trying to track him down on social media.... A sorry tale, but maybe a common one of going too far too fast which eats the cash. Feel for all those who lost out, especially those eagerly awaiting a new bike which they have paid for. Hope someone steps up to keep it going and properly invest, but it is hard to see.
As an older man it has been easy for me to be slightly incredulous about the Norton rebirth. I had a freind who used to say, "Seemed a good idea at the time." Like anything we feel emotionally connected with as we do about motor cycles this Norton thing was a incentive based on nostalgia which has died through bad business. Practiclly every other motor cycle you would like to buy, you pays your money and ride away. I can't believe there are not going to be serious consequences for those involved. There are no winners in this. They were always too expensive!
The winners will be in Asia, where there is a huge market for motorcycles that will pay for develpment of new models and demand affordable prices
Like you, I'm an "older man" and rider and the essence of motorcycling was never really wrought from the high financed and hyped stories like this Norton development has produced. I had watched this develop over the years and wondered how such a high priced issue could really be affordable in the long run. I'm saddened that the image of motorcycling has now been wrapped with the image of rich men's toys rather than a wholesome part of the mechanical realm that had some redeeming value.
Very interesting video. Thanks for the upload. It still baffles me how Stuart messed this up. He had a fantastic brand in Norton, stunning looking bikes and obviously a very talented team of designers and engineers, even a tiny bit of good management would make things work at Norton. I mean look how CCM have gone from strength to strength. I really hope a big player like BMW take over ownership of Norton and do their magic like they did with Rolls Royce.
Strange how the police are never involved in cases like this
Smacks of british govt, must of had lessons in deception from them , that's why I don't vote for these stinking humans ,
Not really strange at all. If you stopped watching TV, being programmed by your government, you'd soon realize the world isn't at all what you were told. Government, town, city, state, are all corrupt. The police are the biggest gang running legally on the streets. The world is run by greed and fake money!
Yes they are never held to account
Certain individuals from the Police are payed to remain silent; in some cases, if they do not remain silent, they are silenced.
Actually, they are looking into it, just locating the missing money is going to be a nightmare.
If you look at all the handouts and government grants that they’ve had, and compare it with the amount of bikes they’ve produced, there’s a massive deficit. The numbers never added up! A pity really as the new Atlas was simply gorgeous. No-one is going to take on the pension scheme and all the creditors so for me they’re dead. Somebody will be buying the name only when it’s all been through the mill. John Bloor shows that it can be done and all credit to that guy! As always, a very balanced view Stuart....nice one!
Probably will end up being another British brand going to be purchased by an Indian firm. It’s a shame! Really do love the new Commando and sadly can’t find them in US.
Anthony Keel I believe that Norton we’re collaborating with a Chinese company for the Atlas production including the engine so you’d end up with virtually the same thing anyway.
@@SteveInskip all the norton engines made were from chinese parts they were only assembled in the uk
Russ Whalin in that case they were well overpriced. I made two enquires from Norton, one for a V4 to which I never got a reply and one for an Atlas to which I did.....but never heard anymore. The whole company about as useful as a chocolate teapot. However, now could be the time to buy a second hand one......good investment!
I saw an advert on instagram for shares in norton a few months ago
Back in 2019 when they had the winding up order (Later withdrawn), I looked at companies house and most (Maybe all I cannot remember) of Stuart Garners companies, not just Norton, were seriously late in filing their end of year returns. Clearly there was something major wrong in the camp as no company that size misses their filing date unless they have something they don't want others to see.
Norton was always an iconic brand for me. When I was 16, living in Guam I saw one running down the road between Anderson and Agana. At the time I had a Triumph Tiger Cub. When the Cub broke I bought an atlas(this was 1963). It was gorgeous and way more bike than i, as a young man of 16-17, with no sense of self restraint had. In short order I got into a scruff with my Spanish teacher and sent off to Military School In New Mexico. It didn’t go well. I barely graduated in 1966 and found that my living father had sold the bike of my dreams to pay part of my internment in New Mexico. *Sigh*. Such is life
Very sad, sounds like Garner has etched his name in the honours list at the expense of working people. More top down misery.
Sad to see an historicly important jewel like this go. But nothing lasts forever...Rover, original Vauxhall, Morris etc...
Wolseley... 🤔. The Wolseley Six... What a car!! My dad had one in a mustard colour. Five kids, mum and dad, with room to spare. And the Wolseley badge on the radiator grill even lit up when the lights were on!!! Sorry, just reminiscing 😜👍
If it’s managed right, like the modern day Triumph it’s got every chance and BMW seem to have the knack. Just historically bad general British management.....no change there! Triumph motorcycles apart, do we actually own any significantly large engineering companies now?
Norton’s German distributor Joe Seifert, who had seen this coming had moved to secure and register the company name in most European countries in order to safeguard it. They could possibly have come back once he is aware of it's full demise in the UK. Many think Norton is Norton, it in fact has engines still being made in China and frame components from China, India and Japan.
Seifert would have only needed China and a well placed assembly headquarters in Taiwan or one would think. But sadly this has been out done by a Chinese trademark troll who has the engine die's and is already producing Norton Motorcycles for Asia and all of South East Asia. In fact the new 2020 shipments have arrived here in the Philippines where I am presently.
Atlas, Nomad & Ranger lines are being produced in China underneath Garner's own nose and have been for a long while.
Sad new for me French fan of this motocycle when I'm young l dream on thé picture of Norton Commando. But l think this news Commando was so expensive for many of us.
- I owned a Dunstall Commando, and I parked it in my living room like a sculpture. The name "Norton" meant pride and excitement to me,
but I never felt that it would truly be revived - certainly not at affordable prices. Maybe the Chinese can do something with it like
the Indians did with Royal Enfield.
Dave InWLA I had a Dunstall 810 c/w Quaife gearbox. The biggest heap of junk I ever had the misfortune to own.
@@steveminers5764 - Mine didn't have the big-bore kit, nor the Qaife, but it had the Dunstall cam, re-angled valves, 11:1 pistons, forks with the built-in twin hydraulic disc brakes, clip-ons and rear-sets, Akront alloy rims, fiberglass tank and seat, and a full fairing. I added an oil cooler, oil pressure gauge, aeroquip lines, and I re-did the electrical wiring with Molex connectors. Cops followed me, but I beat a radar speeding ticket in court!
I loved that bike for 3 years - until I crashed it.
Scandalous, no way would any business rescue a company with a debt of that scale.
I'm sure that guy has a few quid tucked away in an offshore account somewhere.. what a rogue. It's the customers I feel sorry for. Shame to see a legendary brand treated in such a way
The customers yes, but also the employees and suppliers.
The poor staff? Maybe the guys in production! But all the management team deserve the jail!
The “staff” you feel sorry for knew everything that was going on! And continued to call me and tell me my bike was on production line and will be ready in 3 weeks! And I had to pay my £40,000 balance for it to be assembled! So I did! £45,000 out my kids savings accounts as my bike was there!!! So I paid it! That was in August! Now they are bust... and guess what! My bike never existed! No frame! No wheels! No engine! Even though they have me a chassis number! This was the staff! Not Stuart! The staff! So I feel sorry for No1! They are as guilty as him! Even on the Tuesday of the week they went bust! 24 hours before they did! The “staff” were emailing me telling me how I shouldn’t worry and my bike was there and getting built! I’m blown away! And angrier than anyone could imagine!
@@TheLifeOfWalsh that sounds really bad. I was really keen on paying deposit for the Atlas but something told me to wait for the production model and check the first reviews before making any decisions... Lucky me
@@TheLifeOfWalsh That surely is evidence of fraud, taking money under false pretences?
@@TheLifeOfWalsh really sorry to hear that sir!
This is a perfect opportunity for Keanu Reeves and his new bike company arch motorcycles , since he loves Norton.
Would advise Keanu to keep well away from it
Keanu Reeves better not take over Nortons cos hes bikes are massively overpriced so nah thanks
When I saw this I realised I had dodged a bullet! I had thought long and hard about buying one of the new Nortons, loved the look and heritage. So glad I didn't, and filled my workshop with Royal Enfields instead!
And in few years your Enfields will be worth what exactly - fine bike as they are....
India’s two wheeler manufacturer TVS Motors acquired the Norton in an all-cash deal.
Kenny Dreer. (AMERICAN) was the one to resurrect the historic marque. A shame it was all for naught. Reminds me of the Excelcior Henderson debacle here in America 20 years ago
Kenny Dreer was the Man, it was a shame he wasn't able to finish what what he put so much into...Respect!
The poor staff? Maybe the guys in production! But all the management team deserve the jail!
The “staff” you feel sorry for knew everything that was going on! And continued to call me and tell me my bike was on production line and will be ready in 3 weeks! And I had to pay my £40,000 balance for it to be assembled! So I did! £45,000 out my kids savings accounts as my bike was there!!! So I paid it! That was in August! Now they are bust... and guess what! My bike never existed! No frame! No wheels! No engine! Even though they have me a chassis number! This was the staff! Not Stuart! The staff! So I feel sorry for No1! They are as guilty as him! Even on the Tuesday of the week they went bust! 24 hours before they did! The “staff” were emailing me telling me how I shouldn’t worry and my bike was there and getting built! I’m blown away! And angrier than anyone could imagine!
And the tax man!!! Taking tax money first!
Why should norton be paying tax! None of the taxable sales were delivered!
So I paid £45,000 in full to norton. I paid tax on that money when I earned it! Then norton are being charged the tax for the sale!!!
But there was no sale!! I never received a bike, or even a handlebar! So why should I be paying tax and norton paying tax! The government are just as bad as the staff!!!
Can I ask when you paid a deposit for your bike ?.
I'm relaunching the shuttleworth snap 500,send me 5 grand now ,I'll make a start when I get back of holiday
£45.000 out of your kids savings accounts for your motorbike? Do you think you may have got your priorities wrong there, I have sympathy for you being swindled but perhaps you should have cut and run rather than do that.
So you took 45000 from an innocent persons savings and invested it badly and lost their money...... are you detecting a parallel theme here?? Pot, kettle?
I took it out the kids savings as I would have financed the bike when it came and put that money back. Saves me drawing money from businesses and paying huge levels of tax.
I am in a lucky position that I can put that money back today. However it will cost a further £20,000 in tax! So £65,000 to put back the £45,000.
Just ridiculous that this can be allowed to happen. It’s a clear crime, and customers should be refunded from the proceeds of crime act!
£44K for a bike? A shame they didn't learn from the Enfield business model.
Had problem with my v4 Norton still waiting for bike only found out other day it had been stripped down for parts for other bikes
It's hard to believe with all that investment they seem to have delivered so few bikes. I used to build choppers from scratch, with all top shelf parts and from order to fresh Sva motorcycle 6 months for a bespoke build, I can't see with over a hundred staff and a factory, they went churning out bikes. That guy probably bought a yatch a bundle of cars and lived it up. Let's hope he's held responsible and does some queens holiday for it. It's really terrible for those people who lost their pensions. This should have come to light much earlier, and MCN should be ashamed for covering it up. Visor down should have dug deeper earlier. I even enquired at the NEC about a new Norton, but their lead time was unacceptable, I could have been on that loss list. The British bike industry is very floored Norton are basically a bunch of fraudsters , Triumph are ignoring the gearbox issues, makes you wonder.
A sad day.
Indeed!
Thanks for the video report re: NORTON Motorcycles. Sad news, indeed. I remember being excited when I first heard about the “rebirth” of this historically great British brand. I had hoped they would achieve success as TRIUMPH has done.
Have there been any efforts made in recent years to revive the BSA brand?
I used to own a fully restored ‘71 Norton Commando here in the U.S. It took some getting use to with the left foot brake and right foot shift (not to mention the 1-up, 3-down shift sequence!)..... but a heck of a lot of fun to ride.
Thanks again for the post.
Hi Stuart, the vid you referenced is mine. "Where is my Norton Atlas" which I did publish two weeks before the news on administration broke. I was also involved with Visordown in March 19 when they published their allegations. At that time Visordowns allegations worried us as we a had placed a deposit at the 18 NEC show. I contacted Stuart Garner at Norton on Twitter and he absolutely assured me it was standard late filing and not a concern " don't worry we are going nowhere" said the reply
I totally believing Garner ripped into the Visordown article (I've since apologised to the journalist) and the artical was widely ridiculed by many. The visit to Donington Hall later in the year got alarm bells ringing more, the production dates on the Atlas bikes kept moving back. We had witnessed ourselves on Nortons bike nights that the assembly building still wasn't finished and yet we were still told the bike had been signed off for production and it was going to start 'next month'
After the invite to Donington Hall into Garner's library we sat through his presentation, drank some of his beer and my wife turned to me and said "I'm not sure I believe him" but we registered for the investor pack just to get more info. Loads was made of the value of the company based on the huge order book, and it was big with the new Atlas Scramblers making the biggest contribution.
More recently I found a Twitter page called NotNorton Motorcycles and they were certainly publishing things about Norton that concerned us, turns out now they were correct in at least that Norton were in trouble. It now appears John Hogan of Superbike magazine has been involved in an investigation started before the administration, he is soon to publish that investigation. I would take everything published by MCN today with a pinch of salt, MCN have been beating the drum for Norton right up to the end. The Gardian did an interesting article with ITN news at 10 well worth watching
We are disappointed, hopefully our card company will help us to retreave our £500.00. We are the lucky ones many customers are probably too embarrassed to go public. Many have lost more than us, some told their bikes were in production paid in full but their bikes were never made.
Fact is lies were told to us in relation to delivery dates and it will be interested to find out if the Atlas Scrambler program was even close (Norton were still offering test rides at Crazy Hourse Bikes only a week before closing. Sad times!
My apologies sir in the frenzy to get information together in time I couldn't remember your channel name. My condolences on the loss of your deposit. Very useful video BTW!
@@stuartfillingham I'm grateful you mentioned me, there is still a chance we can get the cash back via our card supplier so not completely lost yet. Enjoy your channel, best regards Richard
@@Banditmanuk Thank you sir and your very welcome!
I thought if you paid for something on credit, in the UK at least , the Consumer Credit act means you will get refunded by the credit company. If you take out a personal loan and then spend the cash from a bank account you would not be covered, but payment via an HP company or Credit Card, I'm pretty sure you should be covered.
@@karlosh9286 Hope so but they have not done so yet.
Thanks Stuart for your comprehensive report. Staggering that in a 21st century UK, individual(s), companies etc can get away with this level of commercial deceit and trickery. Where’s the governmental / authorities oversight gone on this one. I for one would be interested to know which firm of accountants were qualifying Norton’s annual accounts over recent years...
/ Interesting...now I'm sure that someone will correct me here but are taxes to HMRC not paid on profits? with all those loans and debts surely there cannot be profits to pay taxes on? or,is it that the moneys owed to HMRC are taxes deducted from employee wages such as income tax and employers/employees NI contributions?
Depends which taxes, there are many, tax paid on profit is corporation tax for a company.
I agree,but where can the profits be with so much debt?
Having operated as self employed and ltd and viewed the odd balance sheet,whatever tax there is,there has to be profit other than Employees NI and IR,so what taxes do they owe? They have already swallowed the pension fund.
Deposits/payments on unfulfilled sales are not profit and I'm dam sure Norton will make sure they are not declared as such along with investments,loans etc.
@@oyleyhands1332 cooking the books to make it look like their was profit
@@russwhalin3878 surely that is only going to attract tax that they cannot pay ?
Profit declaration is done on your returns a year later. People don't also understand about the issue with Companies House, if you fail to file your companies accounts on time, Companies House can strike your company off the register, dissolving your company, they can't wind a company up, only the high Court can do that.
Its simple Norton from day one. Fur coat no knickers? Any engineers out there who visited or had a chance of seeing images of the factory, would realise Norton had no capacity for manufacturing other than very low batch production by hand, this enabled Garner to keep any investment money and not invest in mass production set up costs, which would have paid back regarding production quality and sales in the long term. After 5 years, virtually no sales outlets so dealers probably new, Norton was really "Trotters Independant Trading"
A NORTON TINHA QUE TER UMA FABRICA NO BRASIL ,E EU TRABALHAR NELA.
Never did trust him couldn't put my finger on it but I always thought there was something not quite right about the man , not genuine.
A shyster all day long..
amen...
Wow. Thats some story. Thanks for the video. Sad day for the British motorcycle industry.
Very sad. Norton was The Marque when I was a young lad. I just hope someone pays, figuratively speaking.
As a Norton Commando owner I am truly saddened. Mine is a 1974 model, which I still have.
I'm not sure if a Chinese owned "Norton" is truly better than just letting the company retire and retain some fond memories of what was a British icon... at least maybe until the day arrives when it can be revived properly by British interests.
MG?
Thanks for the video. A few months ago I saw a video stating that Norton was making bikes again. I figured something was off when I went to their website and noticed they were selling used bikes. I thought that was a bit odd for a company to be doing. Most motorcycle manufacturers don't sell used bikes. To be honest, scam operation or not, I really didn't think they'd get all that far. They wanted waaaaaay too much money for their bikes. And bike makers are scrambling as it is to get riders as it is. And Norton's asking price wasn't going to get those new riders. The best they could hope for would be a niche market for the RUBs. Who knows? Maybe someone will restart Vincent - and use Triumph's business model.
Garner- "shake hands then count your fingers" comes to mind...
money all gone yet Norton had a fleet of Aston Martins and Rolls Royces... if above board WTF did they need those for???
The UK establishment protects casino Capatalists, it's why these and others like them are so opposed to the EU who are intent on putting in place policies to stop practices like this.
Ask yourself if Norton was a French or German company would their governments have allowed this to happen?
I hope that Her Majesty will soon be covering the food and lodging expenses of whoever is responsible for this .
What a shock this was Stuart, all the talk from Norton in the last few years was all about factory extension, investment and taking on new employees, which to normal folks looks like a successful firm on the up not a shady firm on the make. Unfortunately it now seems to be more of the latter. It would appear that Mr Garner is no Mr Bloor. Such a sad time for an historic British name.
It’s not just Norton that have gone down, there’s also The Priest House 42- bedroomed Hotel & Wedding venue adjacent to grounds of Donington Hall! The Priest House lies on a river bank with a great array of restaurant areas from Formal to BBQ, serving lovely food. Ideal for a summer evening on the patio overlooking a bend in the river! There must be loads of disappointed brides & other guests who will have lost money! Apart from more employees of Stuart Garner.
Wanted a Commando. Bought a Speed Twin. Glad I did!
To ride a Commando or Roadster when new was an experience of linear relaxed torque. At each up-shift the road stripes kept accelerating and the only other awareness of speed was the wind snatching at your helmet and the rattling of your Bates face shield. Nortor created the term "rowing through the gears." They were that smooth. The next thing I knew was the glow of the lights of Kansas City on the not-too-distant horizon. Where did the time go? Have a leak on the tach drive? Pound a nickel into the casting. Worked every time. Those machines were called MOTORCYCLES. My CB750-K0 is another. Bring 'em back!
Hmmm, Norton may be an acquisition for Royal Enfield to consider.
@ Makes sense, doesn't it? Even if RE bought the rights to the name with a view to developing the brand later on, I think they can be trusted to do the right thing by Norton. They have the clout, they are the current darlings of the motorcycling world, and most important of all, it would give the company instant access to the top table. I hope it happens, I really do... 👍
sgtgrash Norton made in India, I can see it happening. They will buy the rights for a song, build it on the cheap and sell them for too much !
I had the same idea. I wonder, however, if the company's debts and legal issues have grown into such a mammoth can of worms that both Triumph and Royal Enfield might consider the acquisition untenable. And then there might be a problem with the business model. Manufacturing super high end ultra premium bikes could rub them the wrong way. Royal Enfield's success has been based on selling good bikes at very affordable prices. Triumph has morphed into something in-between. I do consider the Norton line beautiful and would like to see it survive.
I think alot of people might be thinnking that. Maybe they' drop the price so normal people can afford one
@@kirarittberg5088 It's called 'sound business practice', most major manufacturers do this, or they die.
Mr. Garner should not be allowed to see the 'day lights' again.
How many bikes did they actually produce? Something doesn't sound right when people say they were waiting months (years?) for a bike they'd bought but then in the last few days it's come out there's 100 people at the factory. What were those people doing if they weren't building bikes? Even if only 50 people at the factory were doing the building they should have been able to produce more bikes.
Very good point Andrew!
I think they have a lot of unfinished bikes as component suppliers where wary about not being paid and were holding back on deliveries.
Can't understand how a British company has to pay Tax when LARGE non British companies operate in the UK and AVOID PAYING FULL TAX,
and WHY is CUSTOMERS CASH not PROTECTED in LAW and REFUNDED FIRST rather then end up STOLEN!
Went for an engine assembler position in Nov 2019.. No wonder they ve never responded following the interview 😕It was all false promises...They must have known...
It seems like they should've just made 'normal' bikes, a la Triumph and maybe they could've properly revived the brand.
Jamie Cox yep nostalgia made it easier for him too .
I agree Jamie but seems Garner had other things on his mind (fraud) and wasn't really interested in the brand or the customer.
It’s a real shame for the British motorcycling industry and British manufacturing in general. Norton have some real cool looking bikes and even started to put together a decent IOM TT team. I did the Norton factory tour back in august and everything looked rosey. There was a new factory being built and there was at least 50 bikes waiting to be dispatched, including the last two of the 50 limited edition Henry Cole / Guy Willison 961 commandos. All the staff were very enthusiastic about their product and all had a smile on there face whilst they were working, (there’s not many places you see that these days). I feel sorry for these guys...
Donnington hall, The Priest house hotel and the two new Aston Martins sat in Stuart’s garage were also very impressive !!!
Let’s hope someone with a honest, sound business brain rescues them and keeps this brand alive. Maybe Siddhartha Lal or Eicher motors would be interested ?
Neil Chambers
Or maybe Geely? They’ve done wonders with Volvo and Lotus just to name two.
They have the funds to let Norton develope according to their heritage and the know-how to produce up to date technology.
I agree Geely would be an excellent choice, they have worked wonders with Volvo and brought them into the modern world.
A very Sad tale. Great Motorbikes! 😡
Its a crying shame, those bikes look stunning.
This makes me sad. Does anybody have an idea what this will mean for the supply of spare parts and service items? Cheers
I had initially found it odd when John McGinnis announced he was signing with Kawasaki for this year's TT. I had though that maybe it was so to his Norton's breakdowns during last year's races. But a few days after reading that, Visor Downs article was published and it all made more sense. How long has the industry insiders known? That's a big question for myself. These types of business shenanigans usually get sniffed out well in advance of the doors shuttering. It's going to be interesting to hear who really knew or tried to alert others. It's a very sad day for a piece of motorcycling heritage. No matter the brand, things like this affect the ability of legitimate startups/restarts from even getting investors. I'm just amazed at the number of people still handing money over to companies that can't even afford to deliver minimal orders.
Seeing that engine bolt hanging out the side of his bike at The Gooseneck on the opening lap of the Senior last year was shirley the last straw for JM. It's a minor miracle that he's still with us - given the catastrophe that might have ensued had he not stopped on t'other side of the mountain. It's a wonder he didn't sue the buggers!
And he his still waiting for his money from norton
@@terrymoore4208 I didn't know JM hadn't been paid. I guess the reason(s) are now crystal clear, sadly.
@@missydee6085 McGuiness posted on social media a few weeks ago asking if anyone saw Garner to ask him to get in touch with him as he couldn't get hold of him,then a few days later he announced that he was riding the Kawasaki at this years TT...
Missy Dee English bikes have just about always been unreliable.
What motorcycle company needs 7 Aston martins .......total joke lock him up !!
One of these Indian companies- Royal Enfield, Bajaj, Hero - with truckload of Money can be a potential investor !
I thought I was lucky to buy a Norton Commando 951SE in 2016. Thankfully I bought it off the floor from a dealer here in Lomita, California and didn’t have to pay and hope to get one. But when the dealer went bankrupt shortly thereafter I sold it with only 500 miles on it. I knew with no service available, it was only a matter of time. I also thought it was strange right after I bought it that I got a letter from the DMV that saying registration had never been paid. I was,also approached to “invest” in the company! Thankfully this is all a memory now and sorry for the people and employees that were scammed.
fml.
they had some high quality bikes.
it would be cool if royal enfield or triumph bought them out. or even a japanese brand.
Think triumph should concentrate on themselves or boom! They're gone too... just an opinion but enfield that's my choice to take over👍
The bikes they did deliver were rubbish by all accounts. Reports of one running so lean the headers were glowing red.
To be honest I think that the best solution for Norton would be if Chineese Geely bought the brand. They’ve done miracles for Volvo and Lotus to name two and I do believe they could help Norton back on feet again too.
@@kasperkjrsgaard1447 ehh they haven't done wonders or Volvo.... They are more unreliable than before. My. Friend picked up two Volvo suvs and both have had multiple issues with the drive train. They bought it back under us lemon law.
@@paulaus most likely due to the Chinese designed engine.
This wasn't the first time. When will people learn?
Sad to see this. I had high hopes for Norton's return.
MG, who still produce cars in the U.K. present themselves with a British heritage, are totally owned by the Chinese state. Some say that MG are good value. Anyway, thanks Stuart for that report. Pity about our motorcycle industry in the U.K., but the lack of financial support is scandalous. Much more intervention is needed to encourage industry.
Financial support they had but a dodgy owner who over priced the bikes!
MG cars are being advertised on television in India, and a large MG badge appears on the screen with the words underneath: Morris Garages, since 1923. Maybe the cars are good, but they don't have any connection with their "heritage".
If a new investor comes - customer trust is probably 99% gone.
I agree. Norton has seen so many fits and starts over the years, that it has become a dream -
like other poorly funded recreational vehicles from single-seat airplanes to 3-wheel cars and
now bike revivals. There are enough retro bikes, already, and the market is dying (literally).
It's time to look ahead to e-bikes.
Dave InWLA
Ehhh E-bikes won’t replace any motorbike in my humble opinion. They look fun though, I’d like to try one out. They would be helpful in inner cities I’m imagining. But out in the country where I live? No way.
@@SickBikeDude - Combustion engined bikes may not be legal in a few years for emission reasons. Without the sound, I'd imagine that Harley-Davidson would suffer the most, but that's the cost of a livable environment.
Dave InWLA
Well combustion engines in cars are continually getting more/new research and better tech and they put out more emissions than bikes do. Harley has its own set of problems for so many other reasons lol don’t even get me started.
Absolutely correct! Even if they have an outstanding model ready for a quality production at a competitive price, who in their right mind would make a deposit on a Norton at this point? A once proud marque with some great bikes throughout history, whose name has now been tarnished terribly. James Norton must be turning over in his grave like a rotisserie!!!!
This explains why the commando was so stupidly priced ! I love that bike but when I saw the price on was like "huh are they insane, they are just starting out again I would have thought they wanted to sell units not a handful of "display" bikes to old men"
Stupid business model and obvious that he never wanted the heat of tens of thousands of sales that he never intended to deliver.
Simply shocked. What a shame.
How does this keep happening in the uk. They had a factory that was capable of producing bikes and skilled staff. We even have norton stock in Australia! This is an awesome opportunity for Royal Enfield to acquire some premium tec.
It will be a sad day if Norton doesn't return.
Sounds a bit like over promised under delivered owed many thousands to paid out customers including that chap mcguiness? Think that's his name.very sad situation I've just bought a thruxton r from a shop in nz who also sell Norton so a discussion was held as to who could bail them out?I suggested to much laughter royal enfield seem to be the only manufacturer at the present with the ability to make bike at a high level of quality and an amazing value for money. I'm sure they could turn their hand at making a few hundred top notch Norton under licence