Selecting Tweeters and Why it Matters!
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
- In this weeks Tech Talk, Danny Richie from GR-Research covers the importance in selecting the right tweeter for the job!
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www.GR-Research.com
Audiocircle: www.audiocircle.com/index.php... - Фільми й анімація
Just wanted to say thanks for teaching me something and I appreciate the down to earth approach.
I am enjoying these tech talks a lot. I am an audiophile and avid DIYer. Your content is great.
This is an excellent tech review. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
I have a 40" planar drivers that go down to 250 hz. One of the important points is since they are fast the driver below needs to be fast enough to match the ribbon/planar etc. Differences in speed between drivers makes it easy to hear transition between drivers.
I really enjoy planar tweeters. Rocking some Chane/Arx speakers and planar tweeters are so easy to listen to and detailed. Can't imagine going to a dome metal tweeter again after my last set of speakers.
Being in my mid 70s now I have been looking for a great tweeter because of the age of my ears. As time goes by tweeters become even more needed.
Thanks Danny. You've cleared a lot of stuff up for me.
Thanks for making this stuff accessible!
Precious Deep information, thanks. love the channel !
I have thanked you before, but wanted to thank you again for taking your time to share your knowledge. I try and watch all shared videos and I think I am taking away valuable information with each video. I will say I purchased a couple of the dual open baffle subwoofer kits - I'm still trying to get them integrated into my 2 channel setup. I will say the subs performance is exceptional and that the open baffle experience is different than my experience with sealed and ported subs. I've been putting a lot of thought into some of the full range open baffle kits.
Danny I'm glad I found that you had shared this video on ribbon tweeters. I have these very well made ribbon tweeters that are only marked with a code marked on them. They came along with east teach mid woofers or were paired with them. They are very shallow yet the film is yellow (ribbon). See I needed to ask about there application. And please talk about stiff woofers that are aluminum coned.
I've been an audiophile for the past 49 years and I consider myself uncurable. Carver Platinum's have a 60-inch ribbon and 4 12-inch woofers. The sound and detail are phenomenal. While listening to these it helps a lot if the volume is raised a bit to fully appreciate the wonderful detail they produce. I just delivered my only pair of these as a gift to an appreciative friend during Christmas and then purchased a pair of something new to replace them with that sounds phenomenal, even while playing at a low volume.
Thanks for the chat. Turns out my super tweeters are planar not ribbons lol. Your certainly right about taking them apart I had a nightmare with mine when I got curious what was inside them. Fortunately I didn't break it 😁
Would have been nice to hear your thoughts on ring radiator tweeters as I'm currently thinking of replacing my normal old dome tweeters with them (probably vifa XT 25 type).
such a great stuff ... first visit to channel and I subscribed after just few minutes of watch .. Thank you
Great educational information. Thank you Danny. The ribbon tweeter wouldn’t last with my grandkids around. I’d have to stock up on replacements. Really interesting.
Replaced the EMIT ribbon tweeters that came in a pair of Infinity RSa 10" 2 way speakers with soft some tweeters and loved the result.
Very informative video !
Great for my speaker “IQ” thanks! 🔊
Thanks so much for this awesome information. Cheers
Great, informative discussion on tweeters, types and characteristics. Briefly, do ceramic metal dome tweeters have the same sound/issues or are they different?
That was a Amazing class on Tweeters 🔊🎼. Thank you for your great video and the knowledge that you give us in every video . I got a question in what you think of the KLIPSCH RF 7 lll SPEAKERS ( QUALITY , RESPONSE🔊🎼 ) ?
Dr. Oskar Heil would love you. I had the original ESS AMT-1 in 1976. Loved them but they had a cheap woofer.
Learnt several new things so thnx m8 👍🏼
Some of those planar tweeters looks (and probably performs) similar to ps audio’s planars in their FR30 series/model 👀
Thanks for the interesting video! I want to upgrade the 4" tweeter in my car. I'm limited to a depth of no more 3cm so I am having difficulty finding anything. I'm running a Kicker 5 channel amp. Can you recommend anything? Can I use a tweeter from a household speaker?
To find out with what frequency the tweeter will play normally - you need to multiply Fs by 3,5-4 (with 2-order filter).
Great video, just wondering what you think of the KRK ROKIT RP7G4 Studio monitors that use Kevlar tweeters?
I was thinking of buying a RAAL ribbon tweeter. I dropped the idea after watching this video. Thank for this.
good presentation. Can you tell me please, do aluminium tweeter diaphragms deteriorate or lose high frequency response by work hardening at the outer edge of the dome? thank you for your videos.
I really like ring radiator tweeters. They have pretty good dispersion and, because they use a silk membrane, they provide a very sweet tone but not necessarily the most accurate reproduction. Peerless (Vifa) has some that are exceptional value.
Maria Callas broke mine and it was not even that hard.
@@jamegumb7298 ? How? Most of those tweeters have a really low resonant frequency and fairly high power handling, so something must have gone very wrong.
@@mndlessdrwer I looked at them again, they lacked the ring, so simple soft dome. The amount of power the amp puts out is 1.5× what the speakers can take so should not be overly deformed sound that did it, RIAA amp works great as always, nothing likely to have gone wrong there, wires 4mm² wires in banana plugs seperate wires for tweeters and woofers, nicely clamped and nothing sticking out or loose. I really have no clue, other than Callas voice going too high and poof tweeter, the other option being the speakers being far from what was on the box, power handling wise, but even then volume was well within limits. I am building my own now for that system too, should not happen again.
Really enjoy your tech talks. You mentioned the long plainer tweeter dispersion was limited to the length of it. Does the shorter ones have the same characteristic. IE, the one you had taken apart. I would want the tweeter to have a good horizontal and vertical dispersion. Seams to me the dome tweeter is the best solution for a two way speaker. 36" tower or book shelf.
The shorter the tweeter the wider the vertical dispersion. The longer it gets the more it is limited to the length or less than the length of the diaphragm.
i have been looking into drivers lately, so much new stuff since i looked into it 15 years ago :)
Have been doodling some concept speakers, the tweeter makes the build for sure.
lowering the crossover to the woofer make a big difference. Aurum Cantus AST25120 Aero Striction Tweeter interests me, think its ribbon, but it goes down to 700hz, 1000hz recommended minimum crossover. that is really low.
Those are really too tall for a single tweeter. The height really limits the vertical dispersion. And on that model I don't think they measure as well or as smooth as they claim. I think I have tested one of those but it has been a while.
thanks for reply, Danny.
its all about how you know how to use them as you say. i wont be making tweeter arrays or if i did Raal have a 9" lazy ribbon tweeter for that.
You cd consider a new ceramic dome 32mm tweeter from Peerless, model number DA32TX00-08. Shd be able to cross down to 1500 or possibly lower with a 3rd order crossover
Shearing knowledge 💪🏼
I found this tweeter that has a -3dB point off 600 Hz. Can I pair this to a set of 15" high Q woofers in a open baffle design? If so would a first order on the tweeter be enough
Hello sir,
I just want to know what better tweeter select for karaoke setting? Compressor, ribbon, dome, or bullet?
I find the soft dome silk tweeters sound the best if you dont need high volume thyre the best and are very forgiving if the crossover point is too low they dont distort too unplesantly, For high volumes titanium compression horn tweeters are the best.
Have you every heard the Audax HD3P? I would love to hear your thoughts about it; it was certainly different
Hi Danny, I have a pair of DIY MTM speakers using a pair of Vifa P13WH-00-08 5 inch woofers and a Scanspeak 2905/9000 tweeter crossed over at 3800 hz. I've thinking of replacing the tweeters with an AMT tweeter, specifically the Dayton Audio amt2-4 tweeter. Do you thinks it's worth the bother? I would of course change the crossover to suit.
I bought a couple of dayton titanium done tweeters where the dome was very exposed with no gaurd or anything and I was installing one my finger slipped and plip the dome was crushed in I unsuccessfully tried to pop it out but it was krinkled n trashed. It was literally so fragile like foil, I still have the other (with a circle of cardboard taped over the dome opening) but now I'm Leary to buy another and install them what's the chances they won't get poked or whatever once there in floor speakers.... and there look totally irresistible to someone especially kids to poke just outa curiosity and it's not as tough as my dad's L100 cone tweeters paper dust caps I poked as a child! If wanna give a child a fun cheap present give a pile of old speakers to poke!
Have you any views on electrostatic tweeters?
In the past I had Decca Ribbon tweeters.
Lots of great information here.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge 👍
Great video, easy to follow! May I please ask you to explain why many are considering the NEO 8 and 10 as mid-tone?
It looks like the NEO 8 goes from 4KHz to 12.KHz or am I reading wrong?
@Carl Capps Thanks a lot for your great answer! :-) Do you know anything about the sound of the combination of a NEO 10 (not 8) and the NEO 3?
@Carl Capps Yes it's sad that they are impossible to get. But how do the NEO 3 sound, compared to other tweeter?
@Carl Capps Thank you a lot! Okay yes but if you've got a perfect-ish product, and people are willing to pay, then why not:-)
Hello Danny, Could you advise if Revel speakers are any good for 2.0 stereo. I am looking at their F328Be and F228Be models but concerned if these Beryllium tweeters are ear fatiguing? Thanks.
Well this might explain a lot since Behringer suddenly and without noticed pulled all the TRUTH B3031A studio monitors off store shelves. Luckily I did get two before the fall-out. The B3031A featured ribbon tweeters. They are no longer available. Only option now are the TRUTH B2021A studio monitors with less power and domed tweeters. I also have two of them. I'd love to learn about large horned tweeters like the movie theatre's use. I use my Behringer studio monitors for both my digital virtual pipe organ and my digital virtual grand piano's. I am searching for speaker options for use with digital instruments. I'm using 15" and 18" paper cone woofers for lower frequencies and need a good speaker setup for mid-high frequencies.
If you want a serious purpose built studio monitor with a planar magnetic tweeter then we have taken it to the next level. Check out the whole build thread: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=160647.msg1713826#msg1713826
And www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=165019.msg1754231#msg1754231
You are a master...
Hi Danny. What’s your take on Air Motion Transformer tweeters? Kind Regards, David
What are your thoughts on Linaeum tweeters? I have a few that sound great but they just stopped working one day.
A master at work here. Well done bud!
what ya think of the folded motion tweeters?
I understand for the first time why ribbons are not more widely used. They are fragile.
Do you have any opinion about using multiple tweeters (in series, I assume) to reproduce midrange frequencies?
No. The tweeters' resonant frequencies don't change that way...
Do you know the Mundorf AMT tweeters? I’m planning on using a Mundorf AMT 19CM in a diy project.
What about phenolic ring, compression, and plasma (lol, jk) tweeters?
Great info! Thanks. I like the idea of planar magnetics and their ability to go low, and their robustness. But you didn't comment too much on their transient response or capturing decay as you did with the ribbon tweeters. How do they compare? Would love to try a set in open baffle with open back lack you suggest. I'm currently running an open back ribbon on OB.
Do you ever use compression drivers?? ✌
Great.
want to upgrade polk r 20s tweeters, any suggestions? Thank you.
What’s the best tweeter design for studio monitors
About to try GRS planer from PE unless you suggest a better one @ 75 bucks each .
Hey! I am choosing between the SB acoustics Satori TW29RN-B-8 and the Visaton KE 25 SC. To pair with a SB acoustics Satori 6,5" woofer. Does anyone have any experience with one of these two?
Thanks for the video, Danny.
VERY HELPFUL. Thank you.
@Danny Richie
@New Record Day
Thanks so much for sharing all of your knowledge and insght with the DIY community, Danny! These Tech Talk Tuesday videos are absolute GOLD. :thumbsup:
In addition, I LOVE the information that you have provided (with tests to back it up) regarding *Driver Burn-In* as well. It's a highly-debated topic with a crap-load of misinformation being flung around the Internet Forums, so it's nice to see some definitive information directly from a speaker designer/manufacturer!
On a Side Note, do you have any knowledge or experience with the new *Graphene* speaker cone material? Supposedly it is both lighter and more rigid than Beryllium, and also exhibits superior damping properties.
I got in early on the crowd-funding campaign for the new *ORA Sound Graphene-Q* headphones. I should have them in-hand or "on-head" in a month or so, and I will be comparing them to several of my existing high-end headphones.
The inventors/designers had previously made an excellent Ribbon Microphone using their Graphene ribbon element, but that is a very small & limited market, so it did not continue into production.
www.indiegogo.com/projects/ora-the-world-s-first-graphene-headphones#/
I think that Ora Sound chose the highly popular headphone market as their first major project this time in order to gain the largest amount of funding to further their R&D in refining their proprietary & patented manufacturing process.
I believe that their ultimate goal is to supply OEM driver manufacturers & loudspeaker companies with custom Graphene-Q cones and/or complete drivers.
I use several of your GR-Research drivers in my DIY speaker systems, including the M165X, and I wonder how this new Graphene cone technology might benefit their performance? I'm sure that use in tweeter diaphragms could produce very interesting results as well.
Also, take a look into the newly announced DIY *Purifi 6.5" PTT6.5W04-01A midwoofers* which IMO have "Next Level" measured performance using a very unique surround profile and a 4-layer LMS, Ø39mm/24mm tall voice coil.
PURIFI is a new Danish loudspeaker company that was formed by a laundry list of who's-who in acoustic, electrical, & mechanical engineering. It's a VERY interesting and promising company and product. There is an Excellent Review with extensive.manufacturer & independent measurements here...
hificompass.com/en/reviews/purifi-audio-ptt65w04-01a-midwoofer
Great information but you left one important driver out and that would be the compression driver! I kept waiting and waiting thinking you were going to pull one out but I guess you didn't have any around. Would have been interested in seeing what you think about those!🤔🤔🤗🤗🤗😁
I'm not Danny but--compression driver: super light weight diaphragm, fast, detailed, I average 1 to 10 milliwatts driving mine to normal levels, require a big horn to make them work, low end cutoff determined by horn size/length. If they play low, mine go to 300hz, they make lousy tweeters.
@@johnlebeau5471
Really appreciate your input!🤗 why do you say compression drivers are horrible for tweeters? I have a compression tweeter in my jbl's thar to me and again that's to me sound fabulous especially the Tweeter area!😨🤓🤗😎 I believe mine goes down to 1500 hertz. I've been traveling around looking at a lot of speakers and I love the compression driver?🤗😎😉 and yes I do understand the horn integration is a very important part of the sound that one receives when using such a driver!🙄🤓
@@bigjay1970 Compression/horns actually have a very wide frequency range. If the horn plays relatively low, I have a pair of Altec 203s that reach 300hz, the highs are not so pleasant. Mine are rated for 16khz, and they will play there, but I've seen a response chart of this horn and it starts to break up badly at about 10khz. They sound terrible when used as a tweeter. I cross mine over at 5500hz to a RAAL ribbon tweeter and they sound fantastic. A compression tweeter, with a tweeter sized horn is just fine.
I have hundreds of them in stock of various types. Maybe I'll get into those another day.
@@dannyrichie9743
Thanks for your response, I appreciate it! Funny thing is, now when I watch UA-cam videos of various people pulling apart speakers for example a KEF R11 a couple of days ago I just shake my head in disbelief regarding some of low level type of Parts they use even in this type of mid highend speaker!🤔😁🤓
I’m still lost, lots to learn
I just need to know which tweeters for opera.
What if we allign two Ribbon/Planarmagnetic tweeters in a T-Shape, so one is aligned horizontally and the other one vertically?
So using one as an up-firing super tweeter?
I meant both facing the same direction (front) , so the vertical as well as the horizontal degree offset will more or less the same.
If you offset the two tweeters but face them in the same direction then the time delay difference between the two of them will cause comb filtering (cancellation).
Yeah, that's what I was afraid to hear but even that close together? I'd like to know if there's a simulation software for comb filtering and so on.
However! Let's pretend we would create a single ribbon with a t-shape and the center of the magnetic field is exactly in the T-section?
Maybe even a Mercedes-Star shaped or cross-shaped or even round ribbon? (applies more to planar, I guess).
I'm just a hobbyist starting out, so please be patient 😁
Check out video's number 2 and 3 for more on comb filtering and two tweeters.
Thank you! I wish I had discovered your channel years ago. I am going to pass on buying those Aurum Cantus tweeters after watching this video.
What is your option of Air Motion Tweeters?
How to tell if it will play details well? lot of tweeters sounds dull (to be more forgiving?), example being praised Q Acoustics 2020i, no equalizer could help that.
I can answer that for me after 3 years now :) It's the design (voicing) etc. partially, but Most of the budget speakers use cheapest parts inside (from biding post to crosover parts), and that really kills any potential even a cheap driver might have had.
I have the Infinity EMIT R tweeter in my Reference four speakers, have worked great for years.
I just measured, tested, and designed new networks for the Infinity Mini that used those tweeters. They were the little monitors with the 4" woofer in the Aluminum box.
@@dannyrichie9743 What were the results ?
@@RickMahoney2013 Maybe I should shoot a video of that one while I still have it here. I may need to hire a video assistant.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thank you Sir.
@Danny Richie
maybe you mean the '90 edition of the Infinitesimal by Infinity... this one audio-database.com/INFINITY/speaker/infinitesimal-iv.JPG
When you say, a smaller driver has higher dispersion, so you mean a smaller tweeter (diameter) is better ? You will get a greater soundstage?
I think it's just that the sound won't be as focused as with a bigger diameter tweeter.
in the past I also thought that soft domes sounded better based on experience. But the newer metal down tweeters dont ring like they used to and the distortion is well out of the audible range. I have B&W speakers and the tweeter is tremendous. I think it goes all the way up to 38Khz to hear any artifacts. The distortion is incredibly low in the treble.
Glad someone with some members explains some planars :) i make planars on my channel and also handles these b&g a bit more in detail on how they are build. nice video ! love planars :)
Ferrofluid cooled tweeter is good?
Have a read of review of new Viawave ribbon on hificompass site. Looks v good!
Are you talking about SRT-7?
Hello Danny, can you confirm, with regards to aluminum (aluminium) dome tweeters, do they deteriorate over time due to work hardening at the boundry of the diaphragm edge resulting in loss of high HF?
Viawave GRT 145 - audiophile drivers!
My Focal Nova Utopia speakers have pure Beryllium tweeters, but not screen to protect them. For $37,500 you would think they would have some kind of protection.
Especially with how toxic they are
what makes my tweeters sound shrill sometimes?
A Tech Talk on line source speakers would be nice.
Episode 19: ua-cam.com/video/-GVdYAQkD8I/v-deo.html
@@dannyrichie9743 Very interesting. You mention in this video that you may be offering the line source speaker as a fully assembled speaker for purchase. Are you still planning on this and if so when?
Thanks.
@@tomhuffman6269 That is in the works and I have people working on it right now. If this next set of driver samples look good then we're rolling.
@@dannyrichie9743 Great news. I am looking forward to this. I assume you'll be using the Bohlender Graebener Neo8 and Neo10 drivers for the line source and some conventional cone drivers for the bass?
Nothing from BG, but close. All planar magnetic drivers. See them here: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=165469.0
AMT or Ribbon for SQ ?
How about Mylar? I've had good luck with them playing extremely loudly car audio stuff, Phillips made small cone shapes.
Hey Danny. Great vid. Quick question, can you please list 5 stand mount monitors (from companies other than gr) that you have loved over the years. And bonus points for why. Thanks.
That is a long discussion. I might have to do a whole video on that. I do have my favorites and don't mind recommending them.
@@dannyrichie9743 so let's do it! (also I think it goes to follow that you wouldn't mind recommending them because you portray an inherently democratic perspective.) but I think we'd like to hear.
Do u sell car audio tweets
I wish there was a channel with the same content covering vintage Altec stuff.
I agree with everything but the "neodynium" in the magnets. It is neodyMIUM...and I see many people making this mistake...
Are you going to be able to offer full range kits with the planar drivers?
We already have full range speakers (sold as kits) using planar tweeters.
Keep em comin these are great!
What do you think of ring radiator tweeters?
Some of them are very nice. I hve some in stock. I almost whipped a couple out for this video.
@@dannyrichie9743
Although it's not a traditional R-R tweeter design, I've been really impressed with the price/performance of the SB29RDN-C000-4. It's my "go-to" budget DIY tweeter when it fits the application.
High Value info here
What do you think about full range assisted speakers? Cheaper altenative to coaxial (3 way?) designs?
A very old concept (the AR-1 used it in the 50s) and a very good one, eliminates the weak bass and Doppler problems of FRs, while still maintaining point source for most of the directionally perceptible spectrum.
How about 360 degree plasma tweeters? I’m joking, of course. But I’d like to know if you have any experience with them. I’ve read about them but never listened to any. The ozone would probably drive me out of the room quickly. 😂 thanks for the great videos.
I heard a pair in a speaker at a show. My colleagues and I didn't think too much of them. But who knows? It was at a show and there were lots of other factors involved.
Ah crud.. All I wanted to hear was the beryllium comment. "And here's the beryllium wisdom you seek.... Opps, Freight Co."
In the beginning Focal didn't had screen on their beryllium diaphragm ( the SM 9ׁ Monitor), but now they have it on the Focal Trio 11 Be.
Danny Richie, you are not bad runner I must say:)
Crossover Understanding power/slope rolloff considerations all things being as equal as possible Question: where would you cross a driver over in reference to it's FS? The method you use(maybe a rule of thumb) can it apply to all drivers? Thank you for your time
It also depends on how high of an impedance rise there is at Fs. Some tweeters really get bent out of shape if played near Fs. Some (like the planar magnetic drivers) have almost no issue at Fs and almost no impedance rise at all. So it really depends. Woofer are played right into their Fs ranges with no issues.
Thank You
Danny Richie follow up question:
For SQ in a ported application, for smoother response should you tune the port at the impedance bump @Hz ?
The one below fs(21hz subsonic set at 28 Hz) Is a no brainer, should I tune the box to the second impedance bump in my case here 38hz (when modeled) instead of the 32hz that was recommended
Thank You again for sharing your knowledge
@@kf6qbw I'd model it and see what the tuning is doing to the roll off, and tune for optimal roll off.
2500 Hz is pretty damn low, especially in a 3 way system, where ribbons mainly belong...
Danny. I own the Totem Tribe Towers. They have a Wavecor 33mm tweeter. Any idea why the tweeter is that big?
I had one of those tweeters on the table. They are nice tweeters. The advantage of the larger tweeter is that they can be crossed over lower or a lower order filter can be used with them.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks Danny!
Dannie how do you feel about your gr research ls6?
I loved those speakers.
I prefer dualtweeters from experience. Softdome to handle the mid trebble, ribbon or horntweeter to handle the higher notes.
Ever since i changed from 3way to 4way speakers, i have a much more relaxed upper sound.
I would prefer to only use a horn/ribbon tweeter, but i haven't found one that handles the lower trebble well,
and i don't want to push the midrange too high.
This actually blew my mind. Are you saying you split the highs up between "upper" highs, maybe more gentle, and "lower" highs? I have very powerful speakers but the tweeters are very ear piercing. I'm looking to replace them with something just as powerful but much more delicate...perhaps I can do both?
@@AlexHernandez-np7iq Don't quote me on it, i'm not a professional.
I had a pair of Dali Blue 6006, very good rock'n roll speakers. But i always felt i was missing that hihat drum, the upper register felt murky. It was there, but murky imo. So i bought a pair of Dynavoice DF-6, simply because they had a softdome and ribbon and i swear my sound improved.
I've had them for 4 years now and i love'em.
8 in carbon fiber , tpa3255 monoblocks,
That wife with a VC looks the same to my own when she is in my room. I have to either do cleaning job by myself or to watch what does she do with all my attention ))