Game 3 - Happy vs Lyn - The exciting final game! - WC3 - Grubby
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- Опубліковано 15 тра 2024
- This is it! Whoever wins this game takes it all! Let's see if Happy's godlike Hero micro, is a match to Lyn's magnificent expertise of certified tier D units!
Game 3 - Happy vs Lyn - The exciting final game! (Game played on 12-May-2024)
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#Grubby #Games #Strategy #Multiplayer #Competitive #Happy #Lyn #WindRiders - Ігри
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some facts about Wind Riders:
1. Wyverns aren't expensive. Average unit cost per food in wc3 is ~60-70 gold/food. Wyverns are 66.25/food - absolutely average.
For example ud's counter to them are: gargs 87.5g/food, fiends 71.6g/food.
2. Wyvern's dps aren't high. Average dps for units in wc3 is ~5 dps/food. Wyverns dps is exactly 5/food (no upgrades/no envenomed spears). With envenomed spears dps grow to 6.
For some other examples: fiends dps is 4.75/food, rifleman dps is 5.19 per food, garg dps is 4.32/food vs ground and 23.2/food vs air. Dryad dps is 4.3 (poison included).
What makes wyvern's damage strong (vs ud)?
1. They fly (bypass terrain and requires specific techs to be countered. Ud is well known race with worst antiair ingame as all races execute mass air unit vs ud);
2. Their oneshot damage (while their attack cooldown is 2.0s) and later posisoning for 25(!) seconds (4 damage x25 = 100 damage).
3. Production speed. It have some components in it:
3.1. while wyverns are t2 unit, orcs have the fastest t2 tech ingame, as they can ignore rax, delay shop and 2nd burrow.
3.2. double bestiary. While most other strategies require having different production buildings, bestiary cover all requirements - wyverns themselves, bats vs gargs/destroyers, raider ensnare for 70+ army focusfire, possibly kodo.
3.3. wyvern training speed is 35 seconds = 8.75 sec/food. While average number for wc3 units is 10s/food. It's 14.2% faster than average. Also most airunits takes more than 10 seconds to train (as they are harder to counter reactively)
For extra examples: garg is 17.5 sec/food, batrider is 14sec/food, chimaera is 12sec/food, fiends 12sec/food, flying machine is 13sec.
Conclusion.
The wyvern themselves are obviously show no reasons to be "imbalanced" S tier. They aren't going to get even A.
But they are strong enough, easily accessable (and they fly) = B rank imho, as they surpass most of other units just by being average good + fly.
The power of modern wyvern strategy (no chance for ud almost) relies on:
1) ud weakness - bad antiair;
2) farseer (S-tier) harass (ranged + wolves to be exactly correct);
3) getting and leveling SH fast (S-tier, strongest heal ingame, shares top3 with tranquility and healing spray);
4) not punishable (by ud) no-rax no shop fast t2 tech.
5) tempo-play by creeping and selling items, rush army superiority (t2 50 food full of wyvens vs ~35 food t2-t3 ud) to secure expand or to get 70+ vs 50 army fight.
6) scrolls of speed +bats, even Happy cant dispel and survive vs it.
Well said
Holy crap what ananalisis! Thanks
So their strenght resides on how fast they come out. Ud cant make crypt fiends to kite them or anything?
Respect +
*gta winning theme starts*
*SO MUCH **_THEORY_* ... I bet you absolutely *SUСК* in practical play... :P
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From zero to hero: the wind rider!
Nice spoiler
@@jordachus6780 Dont read the comments section before watching a game if you dont want to be spoiled
When I was very young, about 6, my father would invite me to a game of Warcraft III, fighting against Insane UD. Althuough not FS or SH first, he would pick blademaster and go full windriders in order to harass UD expansion so that I could build enough towers to defend base as HUM (because our aim is to deplete AI goldmine which would take hours) then he would flee using windwalk or fly windriders over trees
Now after about 13 years later I see the unit take the win from the greatest UD player alive
Windriders are the GOAT against UD!
Thanks for sharing. This were 3 awesome matches
thats true youtuber is the most important job, to make life enjoyable
What you confuse for fulfillment is living for the world for entertainment.
Christ is King and we are called to be the tabernacle in which he dwells. But your flesh and pride are at war with the spirit.
You know the best way to get the answer on the internet is not to ask the question, but to say it wrong and let people correct you. So grubby 1000iq move - make tier lists wrong on purpose, so Lyn can correct him.
If your community is hot garbage, mb
Anyone else notice that the text for the Lion Horn of Stormwind (around 6:52) reads "1 bonus armor" - but all of Lynn's units seem to have a 1.5 bonus armor applied?
Yea, noticed old tooltip.
in other words "anyone else noticed the incompetent devs broke the game and can’t patch it properly since years"
yes, yes we did notice.
Lyn trounced Happy decisively here. Every interaction Lyn got more and more leverage on. It seems like a lot of the wyvern success hinges on the initial 2 or 3 bats landing their hits, so much so that they made acid bomb debuff look negligible - nothing left to do that bonus damage. Alchemist land a few aa and dies.
Time to experiment with something completely different - I nominate pitlord 3rd Howl and banshee curse. Blunt those spears long enough to let the lich and dk do the real damage. Banshees will die but if an entire volley is fired on one, thats a lot wasted in overkill damage.
Damn same strat all three games. I wanted some mixup! Still good to see those D tier units putting in some work.
What did you expect? This is a tournament, not a casual online pub game. Of course he's gonna spam wyverns if he knows it's the only way to go against someone as strong as Happy UD.
@@DarkRedZane maybe fiends to try counter the orc air
God tier micro of air units helps a lot
S++++ tier, God tier wyverns
they are until you play against panda and lich or panda into another good antiair heroe
super expensive flying exp tomes
@@erickh.r.9087 the thing is you see lyn just wipe the floor with happy with them. Perhaps they just need a tier 3 upgrade or something that makes them just a pinch more competitive late game
@@radiowave12 I think happy could easily counter them with mass fiends but he just got sick of them
The biggest difference between the second game and this is that Happy decided to attack earlier because he felt behind and was severely punished, losing both level 1s twice was not as much a money cost but definitely experience. Compare to the second game where he lost almost everything (including Lich and Alch like here) but his heroes were so high level that even with 19 pop he could come back. In this game he just never had a shot, really behind both pop-wise and hero-wise.
And obviously getting Lionhorn of Stormwind + later Alleria's Flute was very helpful in making Lyn's Wyvern army unmatched even with Corruption Orb and Acid Bomb.
While Lyn showed remarkable skill in all three games and really proved his strategy was solid (since like I said in a previous video, Happy couldn't really gain much by delaying his Beastiaries early) I wanna commend Happy for his comeback in the second game, showcasing at once a) he's n° 1 for a reason and b) Heroes are what makes Warcraft III so special when compared to other RTS.
Beautiful games anyway, and love your commentary Grubby!
It is time for D-day!
Lyn played this windriders strat on this championship only to prove Grubby's point is not correct.
I don't think your point about more armor being good against armor debuffs is as universally applicable in WC3 as it is in Dota. In Dota, you have tons of stats, so you are almost never going to have your armor reduced below zero. However, in WC3, many units don't have a lot of armor without upgrades and will have their armor reduced to a negative value if they have an armor debuff applied to them.
This is an important distinction because, while non-negative armor points give a linear benefit (6% PEHP per point), negative armor points do not. This can be intuitively understood because, if it didn't work this way, a unit with negative 17 armor would have less than 0% PEHP (17 * -6% = -102%). IIRC, the negative armor PEHP reduction caps out at -50% PEHP, and each negative armor point after the first has diminishing returns because it can only approach that value
negative armor works almost the same logic, using reverse formula - damage taken applified by 6% per every negative point of armor. So unit with negative armor would take (100%+6%*armor)/100% damage. For example -17 armor would increase damage taken by 102% exaclty (2.02x damage taken).
It's absolutely the same linear logic here, so effectivness of every next negative armor drops down (compare to previous armor point) same as every positive armor point do.
With understanding such mechanic, the perfect +2 armor upgrade benefit would be from -1 armor to +1 = +12.6% ehp boost. And the second best situation is upgrading from -2 to 0 or from 0 to +2 = +12% eph. How often those situations occur in wc3? Kinda ofter with as ud's orb (-4 armor). Basically, armor upgrades vs ud orb is the best scenario for armor upgrades.
Also, cost of 2 armor upgrades in gold is usually cheaper than that exactly orb.
17:13 " That would put to shame the slowest girlfriend when going out on a night out " 🤣. Your English is really good for a non native English speaker. Nice to see Lyn triumph over Happy. I want to see Grubby beat Happy. I saw Happy speak English for the first time in an interview after this series loss. Let's just say he was salty 🧂😆. His nature was about what I had expected. If I was at yalls level of play and was matched up against Happy, I would talk a little friendly trash to him in game. I bet I would tilt him and take the series 😂 or at least bring out the very best of him and I would want a piece of that 🤣. Nothing bad manner. I know you're big on that. To tilt you I wouldn't say GL HF at the beginning of games or say GG at the end 😆. To me once the game begins I'm there to play not to talk. After the game we can talk. Sure would like to see you beat Happy 😇
aren't Happy used to always make fiend army? which was almost unstoppable in many fight? what changed?
By this armor logic (6% extra total ehp from armor point 1 compared to eg 3% from armor level x), health also has diminishing returns. Adding 100 hp to a 1k hp hero is 10% ehp. Adding it to a 500hp hero is 20%. So health becomes less useful the more you add of it.
I dno, seems sussy
you are right. There is no diminishing returns in armor formula, it's clearly just linear.
17:14 "to play with a level of unhurriedness that would put to shame the slowest girlfriend when going out" the saying the mana
19:33 "winds are back on the menu" :)
awesome set
it's really cool to see the top 2 on the battlefield
Ted's UD Lich Frost armor mass Rods 3 Fiends + Ziggu Rush + Sell whole Base wouldnt work against fast tech Fs + 2 Burrows only ?
7:13
60% of 400
there is a little trick you can just flipp the numbers and calculate
400% of 60 instead.
and 400% of 60 is
60 x 4 = 240
or 10% of 400 is 40 and then 40x6, I use 10% of stuff very often
or 60% of 100 is 60
so 60% of 400 is 60 x 4 = 240
lol...
You can just multiply *6 x 4 x 10...* .. lol
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Rating the Wyverns D on the tier list only added an extra interesting flavor to these games as Lyn proved they can be tier S if handled by a master of the craft.
Why didn't happy transition to gargs/fiends when he scouted out with a skeleton that Lyn has 4 wind riders at 6:40 ?
You lost the 2004 Blizzard World Wide Invitational using Wind Riders if I remember correctly? T.T
I love my life just by witness this.
Lyn is now God
Epic match! Windriders are tier D alone but can be tier A at 8+ units
And playing against happy
@@radiowave12 right, of all people 😅 Sometimes I wish somebody else would win but I think happy makes an effort in his games too.
14 year old me feels incredibly vindicated by seeing Wyvs winning a tournament in 2024. You've made an old fart happy today, Lyn.
Readjusted tier list when?!
YES YES YES YES HAHAHAHA MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY 😆
Guess we just need to turn your tier list upside down 😆
Most Orc’s units belong to tier A and S. Counter unit is only Bats and is a superior anti-air unit. May be the best in the game or just after Dragonhawk riders.
Can someone point me to the vid he referenced where he was talking about WC3 balance being in its best state?
ua-cam.com/video/bpNgpAyOxD8/v-deo.html
@@FollowGrubby Ah! The other channel -- thanks dude
batriders can't explode on fiends. completely dead supply vs fiends.
Grebi alwayls maken good contet 💜
Please comment what's happening in the game more rather than explaining some side things... Or if you do those - keep em shorter. Game is so interesting but noobs like me cant see what's really hapening so we need explanation.
Gotcha on feedback for that
As a counterpoint, I also like your humor and anecdotes. Your personality is a big reason I watch.
So a balance somewhere between the two, as I also really like when you do play by plays. The game knowledge and the teaching over high level games like this are great
To answer your question about armor. The actual answer to the question "is it better to add armor to someone who already has much or to someone who has little" does not exist, because "better" is undefined.
Let's say you have 2 units, one has 500 HP and the other has 2000 HP. If you add 500 HP to both of them, the first one is now twice as hard to kill, but the second one is just 25% more tanky. But in the reality you've given them both 500 HP. They receive the same amount of additional attacks, or seconds being attacked, before they go down.
The same is true for the armor, but there are two main differences between boosting armor and health.
1. Armor doesn't reduce damage from most spells.
2. Reducing incoming damage instead of just increasing hp pool (that's what armor does) works very good with all recovery sources, such as lifesteal, heals, regen, etc. Because now every point of your HP is more valuable.
Evasion is essentially the same, the main difference is that missed attack won't bash or somehow else debuff you if it has on-hit effects.
with other stats the same (or at least for those who's hp pool the same (or eHP the same)), it's obviously the one with no armor would benefit more.
Can you dodge batrider by gorgulie form? 🤨
We are happy we see happy
We are happy to see Happy unhappy
The win rider
Maybe if there's hope for wind riders maybe happy beings back fiends into a match like this.
GG
Thank god
I enjoyed this bubba. Hope you did too
Theoru confirmeed
Once you push far enough, and nothing feels like a struggle anymore, suddenly struggling becomes the fun of mastery
Why doesn’t happy get 3 fiends and web? Seems like ghouls are useless in this fight?
Can someone explain why Fiends don't work against Wind Riders?
They do work. And happy has used it to beat this strat.
As far as I know, Fiends work fine against Wind Riders. The problem is that dealing with the Orc ground army as Undead isn't easy.
Why didn't Happy use Fiends in this series?
While he definitely could've gone Fiends instead of Gargs my guess is that since they're easily answered by Raiders + Wolves he thought he had a better chance with Gargs vs Bats (who can die more quickly to CoilNova). But in this game I don't see how any strat would've helped him.
u r so very good at this thing ur doing. feel like I'm talking to a more intelligent version of myself.
gooooooooooo
If it's not broken, don't fix it.
Hi man, love your videos but could you pls not spoil with your video picture who win/lose... only on looking in video picture i could know that lin-happy-lin was end result, would be nice just not to spoil it pls, would be more enjoyable to watch it without to str8 know end result :)
Whats wrong with fiends?
Probably too slow overall (both for creeping and player clashes) and are harder to control due to colision size. Their AI is not stelar as well, even their projectile is slow.
Wind Riders demolish fiends…Plus, a slow attack.
They are food and free exp against this much wyverns
How in the world do Wind Riders demolish Fiends
@@Dhomden You must be new to the game?
Update the tier list? lul
Lyn = banger 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥👑👑👑
Definitely Wind Riders are tier A
nah, but they're not D either.
Maybe this is a dumb questions but can pro wc3 make a living out of tournaments? 2700 dollars does not sound like a big prize
3000-3500 USD after taxes is an average monthly wage in the U.S. You must be a millionaire if 2700 USD per a single tournament is not much to you…
Now let’s start…
It’s not just a single tournament monthly, but 5-8…Only if you win 50%+ of tournaments. Plus, daily steaming, views, donations. It’s pretty much a full time job just without a boss. Isn’t this information obvious? Dumb questions don’t exist, but this is definitely a weak one…
The information isn't obvious. Its not obvious how many tournaments a player will play, and only the top player gets the big prize. If you can consistently place where you earn money and you get enough from streaming you can probably make the same as a decently paying starter job in america, but depending on where you live and who you have to support that's not much. 50k household income in a mid size city in the US is not gonna work if you have a kid.
Edit: Not to mention we're used to seeing prize pools in the 100k range for bigger esports, so it skews perspective. I'm not saying you're not right btw, just that the question is justified.
@@nrussop When a single man could afford to support his wife and kids long gone at least for most folks out there. Now, it requires both parents to work full time jobs in order to support a family. Some Americans work 2-3 jobs to support the household.
@@Igorsov edit: my original comment was just argumentative lol. What i mean is in this economy, 3000 dollars sounds somewhat small.
@@nrussop That you explain to the U.S. government 😅
Grubby, we need a tier list of skill requirement per race.
Winds are still D tier for me, maybe C as they countered the Destroyers.
The reason they were overwhelming was mostly because the player amassed a large amount and used their capabilities to outcreep the enemy.
This win was mostly achieved in the early exchanges, plus the SH heals were a great counter, maybe DL would have been better for the ranged nuke or some other nuker from the tavern as Alchemist didn't seem to do much.
I think he lost because of useless gargs. Why not fiends lol.
I don't know what's more weird about this game... How *absolutely **_TERRIBLE_* Happy's early/mid-games were... (seriously, that was just *BAD* ...)
... *OR...* ...how he still managed to semi-come-back into the game, and almost have a chance, if it weren't for *that DISASTROUS DK LOSS at the end... :P*
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”Tier D unit”…We need to make a memo…
it's already a meme :D
@@nightyonetwothree Poor Grubby…failed a big time…I don’t know how he can clean his reputation now 🤣
:( undead lost...
Grubby, why does UD have to depend on 3-4 types of units to win a game, while ORC, HU or NE can get away with just 2 types?
Early cmt but I want to see 4v4
Happy lost= I click like.
Any game replay that has happy losing makes me happy, I'm tired of seeing him
Windriders are clearly IMBA. When will Blizzard nerf?
Dk is op…
@@CoreyAllenTrendsetterNah, that’s Archimage, MK, DH, BM, TC, WD and PB…
IODIS vibes lol.
1:13 how come people are so vigilant in killing the animals? are they just nuisance body blockers?
2:17 he raised skeletons off that sheep
@@user-kd2qd1sh3o I always chuckle at how you get two human skeletons from one dead sheep.
I think is cause they may be scouts or something too.
@@tudorserban111 😂😂
Tier A or S looks to me…especially when you can get away with only building 2 types of units…while undead has to build at least 4 types of units…Where is balance?😂
Совсем не похоже на Happy..