The US lock series are the result of specification writing that is done by unqualified writers and non security hardware engineers. Low bid is what you get...low quality. The 4th pin was probably stuck open due to poor quality manufacturing; a disgrace.
@@lockpickinglawyer It's actually easier to realize than you think. Because its an American lock keyed to a 1k Master key or equivalent, rather than an american lock cylinder or Master pro series cylinder, the driver pins are shorter in that specific series of master locks. This is common on american/master crossovers, where you have a #1 pin and a short driver that works fine in a traditional master cylinder non pro series cylinder, but put into an American lock cylinder crossover, thus the top of the driver pin is right at or slightly below the shear line. Master/American was made aware of this early on, and all it would have taken to solve this problem is reduce the number of keys by keeping out all the instances of 1 in a bitting, but they didn't want to change the production because they are a multi billion dollar company.
@@crispybacon7937 If you are right, you could populate a lock with only those pins, making a lock that can be picked without touching any pin... I would name that lock: Master Lock Master Piece
@@Xandros999 The safety lock series is about safety of life not security - the requirement is that no two keys match and that removal, without damage, by mistake, is as hard as possible. If they do need removal without the key they are usually cut off with cheap bolt cutters by the site manager. They are intended as tamper evident rather than security devices. They are usually supplied in packs of five keyed alike locks but packs of twenty are available. All but one key is then chucked in the rubbish on receipt. The most common case is red plastic but yellow, blue and black are used for different purposes.
@@allangibson8494 That's what makes putting a great core in them so bizarre. You could put that shitty 4 pin that only needs 2 or 3 pins picked in those safety locks and there would be no issue, and the tough core in their high security products, but that's not how they do it and I don't understand why.
@@jeffwells641 No because the number of variations on a site would be too low, leading to the possibility of duplicate keys, particularly with contractors who move site to site. Several million variations are therefore required to minimise lethal mistakes. What is amazing is that Master Lock didn't use the better cores in their more mechanically secure locks.
@@lockpickinglawyer I was happy when they realized they screwed up, moving production to China and moved operations back to Milwaukee, but I guess thats the only thing good about masterlock
coming back and reading this actual salt about American Lock now that american lock bodies are just used as macabre decorations for lock necromancers to send other lock nercomancers challenge pin setups is like wow
I work on a US base and find these locks on the ground cut by bolt cutters. I have quite a collection. I think that the locks have a flaw in them in about 1 in 4 that I pick up there are pins that are bound in place and cannot be picked or probably even opened with a key. Its a real shame that American locks name has gone down in the mud thanks to masterlock.
Depends really, For big companies for sure they give very little and get paid way too much for it, The beauty of government job auctions I reckon, Small businesses however not so much, For example, My tow company tows mail vehicles in quite a few surrounding towns as well as repairing them, changing flat tires for them, mounting and balancing the tires we use to change them, jump starts, battery swaps, etc and we get paid better than by a company like AAA but worse than our normal rates, It's good steady work and they don't pay all the bad for such a big contract so it's not bad, definitely not us screwing them over or them screwing us over, but they definitely don't overpay for that kind of work, Police agencies, however, For their contracts we get paid double for base pay work (impounds, Disabled vehicles, flat tires, etc) for winchouts, crashes, and any other bigger jobs we get more than double, so they pay excellent, The big companies do definitely cost tax payers a shit ton of money for next to useless stuff though, A lock like this they might as well not even use one yet I gaurentee it cost tax payers millions in those locks if not tens to hundreds of millions.
@@towtruckaj I heard a little tidbit you may already know about government contracts. If a business offers a discount for payment in 30 days, the government that normally pays in 90 days, has to take it. The guy I heard it from offered a half a percent discount for payment in 30 days, and the government paid early.
when i saw that masterlock core i had flashbacks of nuclear launch keys from various movies. i understand that military locks used to guard munitions are very serious. somewhere in the world that American lock ASL40N has brothers guarding something all with equally bad cores and i find that disturbing.
That locks tenure in the US military isn't written in stone I can assure you. All depends %100 on who the President is and which party has the majority in the house and Senate. When they decide to funnel more cash into their own silly pet projects they make "budget cuts" and the military is the first ledger they pull up. This is a 6 year old video so.. yea, there were significant military cuts at that time. That was fixed shortly afterward. It is what it is.
The old stuff can be pretty bad. I've refined my approach a bit, and hopefully things will get even better in the future... but I still cringe a bit when I view some of my really old stuff.
@@lockpickinglawyer your old stuff is just as good but im glad your voice has more heart and feeling to it now. it's so nice how well you've progressed.
I don’t know I think it was a worthwhile cause to justify such things I mean give the guy a break his heart was shattered at the time He probably wasn’t able to think clearly
is it really worth saving a few cents rather than always putting in a 6-pin core? wouldn't you save money by having less tooling if you had less variety in your products?
So what allowed this to be opened on only three pins then? Was one part of the barrel worn or something? Or just the whole thing was so loose it could be moved in such a way to get around the forth once the other three were aligned? Seems very odd that a four pin lock only needs three to open.
This is par for the course. Us govt contracts = expensive pieces, expensive replacement parts (when available), no support, and usually the least reliable.
I have some american brass locks from my time in the navy. They say US on them and they use American keys... I just bought a new house and will look for the box with them when I finally sign papers. I've got a couple, if they are as I remember I'll send you one.
This might be an assembly error. Looks like #4 driver is too short. Insert both the pin and the driver into the plug, betcha it is right at shear line.
Soon as you see the "K" on the retainer plate you know it's Master ... the standard retainer plate does not offer enough rotation for the Master core ... Drilling is not needed you can just punch it out with an awl
Maybe the pin you can't feel already lines up with the shear line without a key being inserted? So when it's tensioned, that pin is already "picked" without you doing anything.
Or the driver pin + key pin combined is so short, that the driver pin is actually under the shear line. So the only thing at the shear line is a spring. This would explain why it took extra effort to turn the core open; the spring was wrapping around the core as he was turning. He's made videos on quite a few locks where this is the case, and honestly it's really poor lock design
@lockpickinglawyer , the reason for the high security, low quality of LOTO locks is for safety. It makes it hard or impossible to take the lock off of a stored energy lockout without having some sort of visual evidence of being tampered with. Keeps fowl play away.
Unless it's Boeing or hands out lots of pork to congressional districts, yep. Things like the Senate Launch System, the ULA, the F35 and other jobs programs, not so much. It's only our tax money, after all.
As a government, if you go with a bidder who is not the lowest, you have to have a solid reason to justify that. Not "I heard that this bidder was no good" or "The lowest bidder is always the worst bidder so we thought we wouldn't select the lowest this time". Must be a solid reason, such as "we've entered into contracts with them before and have encountered many problems with late delivery therefore we can justify paying 5% more to go with the second bidder". The initial specifications and the monitoring during delivery are important. Without good specifications you'll get crap regardless. Without monitoring, they'll deliver crap and you won't find out for years.
Will any of those other cores fit in the lock body? I have this lock, and a couple of those cores.. I'd like to try and swap them out if it's possible..
that master lock safety lock if its a LOTO core its not all spools... All master lock LOTO locks in chamber 5 have a serrated pin and the rest are spools...
I couldn't even count how many times I saw that exact lock while I in the service, I don't know if it had the same core or not. We used it on every thing from our armory to lock boxes on trucks.
+Jeff Moss I'll check. I have the extra actuator, but I think the chamber needs to be milled deeper as well. I'll get around to it sometime soon, and post and update if warranted.
Interesting finding. Is it the bitting that makes it easy to open (many long key pins)? Like to see the continuation how the tragedy turns into a happy end.
+Potti314 Right now the old core (rekeyed and repined with 4 serrated drivers) is back in the lock using a standard screw/retainer. Putting a full sized core in would require machining, and a few new parts. I'm debating whether I will go through the trouble.
Great video! I think the long pins with the poor tolerances in this lock probably made for the "2 and 3 pin lock" feel. Sad how this is what the U.S Government uses...
He would engineer it into Neverland. There would always be that one more thing to add, change, or remove and it would never be finished. Or it would be pickable and we couldn't have that.
Good job. Great vid. Shame fill such a beautiful padlock, with that trash of cylinder. Thanks for sharing, I would not want fanciest a lot of money on postage to buy a lock that brand and take it to Europe, to find that thing inside.
How often is picking an issue? One explanation may be that they don't worry about having cheap cores because people typically use destructive means if they're stealing things. Bolt cutters or lockpicks? I only ever saw bolt cutters and prying tools when I was in the Army even though we were up against cheesy locks.
Right? I mean bolt cutters are almost silent, and take 0 skill. Unless someone is trying to be in and out without you noticing, 9 times out of 10 they would just cut it.
@@HiTheNameIsBj It just gets funny when bill and others make fun of Master Lock. Yeah, they're mostly crap, but no one carries picks. Bolt cutters and slide hammers are cheap and don't look as conspicuous. We just all need to admit we're just geeks. Geeks with party tricks.
Master-so you want locks, requirements? Government - yes, they need to be weather resistant. Master-how secure should they be? Government - hmm, a key should be fine.
That makes sense, corps often overprice and under deliver to to government to maximize profit. Ive seen this kind of laziness in multiple products. Its the non revokable contract, once yur in it clear sailing to the next contract.
As a Veteran, this is not surprising. Lowest bidder and all. I used these locks to secure HMMWV steering wheels in the motor pool. When the keys were enevitably lost, they were just cut with bolt cutters and then replaced. Anything secured with these locks that I was privy to was already behind at least another layer of security. But still, the lock should be better if it is going to be used to secure weaponry.
+LockPickingLawyer Seems to be a 4 Pinner like yours, same markings. biting is fun, like a Bogotá! I'm not going to murder my one tho!!!! I love locks too much to destroy them! just seen your other video, have you no shame or mercy?
+Rob Risla I have no idea. Honestly, a brass shackle padlock isn't much good as anything but a tamper seal. But it can't even work as that if it is that darn easy to pick!
www.masterlock.com/business-use/product/ASL40N says the current version is a 5 pinner. Presumably it’d be a 5-of-6 core. See also: cdn.masterlock.com/masterlock/resources/documents/pdf/government/A-A-59486C.pdf content.masterlock.com/masterlock/resources/documents/pdf/A-A-59487B.pdf Note how *none* of the specs say anything about the actual security, except in the introduction where they are specified as low security. Interestingly, they are required to have 10.000 or 4000 key changes and come in both master and grandmaster sets; I don’t think you could do that with the 4-pinner.
American actually makes some very nice brass bodied locks. I’ve bought a series that can accept a full sized IC cylinder and I load them up with a primus core. Makes a pretty good medium duty harsh environment padlock.
LPL do you ever have the opportunity to talk with the engineers at American or Master lock and ask them why they do what they do? They must do trade shows or something. Just thought it would be interesting. Also why they would make that lock? It could be for a specific contract the .gov put out. Maybe its not so much the makers issue as it is the .gov's for the bid they requested.
Love your videos they're very educational, but I was under the assumption from the beginning of your video, that you were going to put in a much better core, thus saving the lock from the disgrace category you felt so strongly about?
Goverment probubly signed some deal 50 years ago or somthing and wont renegotiate the deal. For example some kind of bulk deal that at the time was a relatively fair deal that probably benfited the government slightly more then master lock. But years later that deal would be a loss on masterlocks side due to inflation. Thus they have started going cheaper and cheaper in the craftsmanship of the locks so they dont lose money.
I have seen the same thing. Master putting cores with 4 pin, virtual no security pinning in a US padlock but turn around and put a 6 pin core with security pins in an electrical panel lockout padlock with a plastic body. I wouldn't be surprised if you could rake this one open.
Yup. Makes no sense. The lock is rakable, but not consistently so. Bumping works as well, but again, about every 4-5x (then again, I'm not too good at bumping).
You can always recognize a Master keyway core in an American padlock because the cover plate has a letter "K" stamped on it. No need to drill ... the rivet it can be just punched out, with the right size pointed punch. Unless this is a very unusual Padlock none of those Master Cores will fit in it ... the lug on the back of the core is oriented wrong ... it won't fit in ... Normally the Master Keyway cores are made specially to fit, American padlocks, with the American style lug on the back of the core.
Can't tell you how many soldiers we had lose their keys to the American Locks 5200 series locks on their tool boxes and we had to pick them open or just drill them out. They are pretty trash locks.
I know I am late to the party on this, but, sadly this is not unusual for government stuff, cut corners everywhere and it is unlikely to change with some of the budgets they give sectors of the governement, the IRS itself the budget it is given often barely keeps it running so a lot of what is bought to keep the Govt running is just above low quality.
I assume you do not trade in the markets. No one who does, and does it successfully long term, ever breaks the habit of not ever saying anything about "doing it just this once". It takes so long to get that version of pandora's box locked up, you don't dare take a chance of ever having it open again. Sorry, just had that conversation with a few people just two days ago. Of course, both they and you are a bit younger than me. Best regards, you do great stuff. Been subscribed since the first video I ever saw....
Yes but it's a brass hasp padlock, offering minimal security anyway, why does it need a better core when you can slice through the brass hasp with a little hacksaw in seconds? All brass padlocks like these are really only used as safety lockouts in situations where there may be flammable/explosive vapours., you wouldn't lock your bike up with it.
I agree, cutting it off is pretty straightforward, but by being cut off it's more obvious that it's been tampered with than if it were simply just picked. This is probably why Master Lock puts their best core into a plastic safety lock.
Sam A Well for that job, Soviet Russia had the perfect lock. It was held closed by a signed piece of paper. Any opening, authorized or not, would make a tear in the paper.
Is that core off-set? # pins is what happens when Master takes over American (once a good padlock maker!) The Master Safety or Cut-out locks do have better pins and bidding why is a mystery to me. Another mystery is why the rivet the core guard/holder? Perhaps to keep eyes away from the nasty core!
+Peter M Not sure what you mean by "offset." If you mean the core sits in the lock at an angle, then yes... but no different from any other American lock... as for Master lock's impact on American... don't get me started!
@@jamestheotherone742 I disagree, I think the politicians cut funding off to the branches of government and as said departments run chronically underfunded (see FAA and plane incidents on the runway for example or IRS not doing its job due to shortage of inspectors, or post office "raising rates"). All the woes of government go back to the party's in power. Currently or in the recent past there has been a defund the government push and burn it all down(the government) and oh by the way vote for me and I'll light the match push. So if your department is supposed to run on 100 and you have funds for 25 and now the public is pissed at your department is it the government employee's at fault? or the politicians who cut the funding but did not cut the mandate of what the department was responsible for?. This is all about us the citizens and who we put into office.
@@danowolf Thats really not the way it works at all. Its not the parties or the politicians. Even totalitarian socialist dictators suffer from bureaucratic inefficiencies. Its the "agency problem". Government employees are rarely incentivized to avoid wasting funds or to seek the maximum value as they do with their own money. So you get things like this where "we" pay a premium for a sub-standard product. The US Federal Government is lavishly funded, and deficient spends freely. There is no shortage of money at Fed. State, and local levels. What the problem is, is that we don't get a very good return on that money and it often creates price inflation on what we do get which produces even lower return. The stories of it are legion to the point of cliche. And that is both the politicians and bureaucrats fault. Very little the citizens can do but vote for someone who wants to give them less money to burn and steal.
@@jamestheotherone742 The current government regularly underfunds the IRS so less audits occur. If the government politicians do not want something enforced they strangle it with no cash. Come on you know this.
@@danowolf Has nothing to do with the topic at hand (poor value for the money gov. spends) . Congress "strangling" something is how it enforces its check on the executive branch and agencies. Why do you not know this?
I wonder if they got the government contract with a 6 pin core and then changed to 4 pins to increase profits. Every service man and woman rely on these locks to secure equipment that they are financially on the hook for if lost.
Keyed alike to Master Lock Brand key the US uses. I am not suggesting the US uses only this key. I am suggesting American offered this lock with a Master “keyed alike” to other Master locks used in a specific application. Master and American - owned by same co.
One of the pins in that master lock core could have easily been a zero lift pin, and considering they atleast tried on the pinning this time I wouldn’t be too surprised if a poorly implemented zero lift pin was the cause for only needing to pick 3 pins
![[35] Aeporia Pin-in-Pin Lockwood Challenge Lock Picked and Gutted](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ppxKFAsexdM/mqdefault.jpg)
![[43] Papa Gleb 7 Pin Schlage Challenge Lock Picked and Gutted](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/W5ZqodsYPBQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![[41] Texas Jim TrioVing 7-Pin Challenge Lock Picked and Gutted](/img/n.gif)
The US lock series are the result of specification writing that is done by unqualified writers and non security hardware engineers. Low bid is what you get...low quality. The 4th pin was probably stuck open due to poor quality manufacturing; a disgrace.
+Peter M "disgrace" ... yup, that about sums it up.
@@lockpickinglawyer It's actually easier to realize than you think. Because its an American lock keyed to a 1k Master key or equivalent, rather than an american lock cylinder or Master pro series cylinder, the driver pins are shorter in that specific series of master locks. This is common on american/master crossovers, where you have a #1 pin and a short driver that works fine in a traditional master cylinder non pro series cylinder, but put into an American lock cylinder crossover, thus the top of the driver pin is right at or slightly below the shear line.
Master/American was made aware of this early on, and all it would have taken to solve this problem is reduce the number of keys by keeping out all the instances of 1 in a bitting, but they didn't want to change the production because they are a multi billion dollar company.
@@crispybacon7937 If you are right, you could populate a lock with only those pins, making a lock that can be picked without touching any pin...
I would name that lock: Master Lock Master Piece
STOP IT MASTERLOCK YOU'RE BREAKING HIS HEART 😭😭😭
That moment when someone sends you a Rolls Royce and under the hood you find a lawnmower engine...
Rolls Royce are rolling piles of junk anyway.
@@DaveStatius There it is. The dumbest thing anyone on the internet has ever written.
@@ClarinoI I'm not sure shout that. There are people that believe their locks "exceed maximum security."
@@DaveStatius ah yes hand built million dollar cars, definitely junk.
@@DaveStatius because you cant afford one???
"probably their best core.. they put it on a plastic box.. go figure" laughed out loud
I think he said "plastic safety lock". I'm curious what that lock looks like.
@@Xandros999 He's talking about the Master Lock LOTO Model 410, look up vid 479 if you want to hear him talk about it
@@Xandros999 The safety lock series is about safety of life not security - the requirement is that no two keys match and that removal, without damage, by mistake, is as hard as possible. If they do need removal without the key they are usually cut off with cheap bolt cutters by the site manager. They are intended as tamper evident rather than security devices.
They are usually supplied in packs of five keyed alike locks but packs of twenty are available. All but one key is then chucked in the rubbish on receipt.
The most common case is red plastic but yellow, blue and black are used for different purposes.
@@allangibson8494 That's what makes putting a great core in them so bizarre. You could put that shitty 4 pin that only needs 2 or 3 pins picked in those safety locks and there would be no issue, and the tough core in their high security products, but that's not how they do it and I don't understand why.
@@jeffwells641 No because the number of variations on a site would be too low, leading to the possibility of duplicate keys, particularly with contractors who move site to site. Several million variations are therefore required to minimise lethal mistakes.
What is amazing is that Master Lock didn't use the better cores in their more mechanically secure locks.
Man, I’ve never heard the LPL so depressed before...
Maybe go pick a Bowley to up your spirits!
The basement...locks don’t want to go to the basement!
Above the door, it reads..."Abandon All Hope Locks Who Enter Here"💀
It puts the cutting oil on its rivet.
Is LPL moves you to a second location your odds of survival drop to 6%.
@@erg0centric lol 🏆
"It puts the lotion on its skin" kind of place
You just sound depressed in the tail end of this video
more like the whole video
Yeah hope LPL is OK!
August Hayes Perfect ending to a courtroom presentation. May leave the jury in tears over the wickedness of the other side.
i liked this the most...
@Chuck More like the depression of opening an American flag made in china.
Haha you got everything spot on and no thank you as I also wanted to see just how bad master is destroying the American padlock brand.
Thanks, and thanks for sending it. It's eye opening.
Beautiful looking lock nonetheless.
@@lockpickinglawyer I was happy when they realized they screwed up, moving production to China and moved operations back to Milwaukee, but I guess thats the only thing good about masterlock
coming back and reading this actual salt about American Lock now that american lock bodies are just used as macabre decorations for lock necromancers to send other lock nercomancers challenge pin setups is like wow
I have some old surplus McDonnell Douglas all brass locks from the 70's and 80's if you want to give one a go..
I work on a US base and find these locks on the ground cut by bolt cutters. I have quite a collection. I think that the locks have a flaw in them in about 1 in 4 that I pick up there are pins that are bound in place and cannot be picked or probably even opened with a key.
Its a real shame that American locks name has gone down in the mud thanks to masterlock.
You should consider sending those cut locks to some in the lock sport community if you can. I'd take a couple.
Bolt Cutter = Master Key
No arms room should be without one.
Q: How into locks is Lock-Picking Lawyer?
A: He’s regards a mediocre lock as “a tragedy.”
The US government is a big trough of money for contractors. Charge a lot and give little for maximum profits.
Just take a look at the Pentagon.
Depends really, For big companies for sure they give very little and get paid way too much for it, The beauty of government job auctions I reckon, Small businesses however not so much, For example, My tow company tows mail vehicles in quite a few surrounding towns as well as repairing them, changing flat tires for them, mounting and balancing the tires we use to change them, jump starts, battery swaps, etc and we get paid better than by a company like AAA but worse than our normal rates, It's good steady work and they don't pay all the bad for such a big contract so it's not bad, definitely not us screwing them over or them screwing us over, but they definitely don't overpay for that kind of work, Police agencies, however, For their contracts we get paid double for base pay work (impounds, Disabled vehicles, flat tires, etc) for winchouts, crashes, and any other bigger jobs we get more than double, so they pay excellent, The big companies do definitely cost tax payers a shit ton of money for next to useless stuff though, A lock like this they might as well not even use one yet I gaurentee it cost tax payers millions in those locks if not tens to hundreds of millions.
@@towtruckaj I heard a little tidbit you may already know about government contracts. If a business offers a discount for payment in 30 days, the government that normally pays in 90 days, has to take it.
The guy I heard it from offered a half a percent discount for payment in 30 days, and the government paid early.
Socialized corporate welfare.
Pretty much what Smedley Butler said in "War is a Racket".
i use an brass american lock with 6 pins for my gym locker. i feel really strange that the US government lock is far inferior to my gym lock.
.gov has some great locks for things that matter... but they cost!
when i saw that masterlock core i had flashbacks of nuclear launch keys from various movies. i understand that military locks used to guard munitions are very serious. somewhere in the world that American lock ASL40N has brothers guarding something all with equally bad cores and i find that disturbing.
bird718
In silos, each missile tech has their own padlock on the keys that they switch out at the beginning and end of their shift.
That locks tenure in the US military isn't written in stone I can assure you. All depends %100 on who the President is and which party has the majority in the house and Senate.
When they decide to funnel more cash into their own silly pet projects they make "budget cuts" and the military is the first ledger they pull up. This is a 6 year old video so.. yea, there were significant military cuts at that time. That was fixed shortly afterward. It is what it is.
Going through your back-catalogue. Nice basement voice, definite man-cave factor ;-)
The old stuff can be pretty bad. I've refined my approach a bit, and hopefully things will get even better in the future... but I still cringe a bit when I view some of my really old stuff.
I enjoyed the trip to the basement, just like MTV cribs :p
@@lockpickinglawyer your old stuff is just as good but im glad your voice has more heart and feeling to it now. it's so nice how well you've progressed.
"Oh shi-"
I mean
"Oh masterlock!"
Wow the change in 4 years how much more fun you seem to be having making your video's now.
just this once - famous last words
Word for word, what I said.
There was a perfectly suitable not-precision-ground surface right there on the same casting!
I don’t know I think it was a worthwhile cause to justify such things I mean give the guy a break his heart was shattered at the time He probably wasn’t able to think clearly
Master marketing ploy to hide a rubbish core by putting it inside non re keyable lock. Stroke of genius.
Saves 2.3¢ per lock if they rivet it.
is it really worth saving a few cents rather than always putting in a 6-pin core? wouldn't you save money by having less tooling if you had less variety in your products?
So what allowed this to be opened on only three pins then? Was one part of the barrel worn or something? Or just the whole thing was so loose it could be moved in such a way to get around the forth once the other three were aligned? Seems very odd that a four pin lock only needs three to open.
If you need a new security nut and screw let me know. I'll throw a set in your next box
+Papa Gleb Thanks, but I have quite a few. They came with my American pin kit.
This is par for the course. Us govt contracts = expensive pieces, expensive replacement parts (when available), no support, and usually the least reliable.
Having started watching LPL videos late seeing an early one, good to see over the years Master Lock has not changed practices
I have some american brass locks from my time in the navy. They say US on them and they use American keys... I just bought a new house and will look for the box with them when I finally sign papers. I've got a couple, if they are as I remember I'll send you one.
This might be an assembly error. Looks like #4 driver is too short. Insert both the pin and the driver into the plug, betcha it is right at shear line.
Master level picking skills, weapons, a machine shop, you are one formidable guy.
"... and we'll go downstairs and *take care of this."* Great euphemism.
Soon as you see the "K" on the retainer plate you know it's Master ... the standard retainer plate does not offer enough rotation for the Master core ... Drilling is not needed you can just punch it out with an awl
"And we'll just take this lock downstairs......."
Lock urine flows from key hole.
Very funny, thanks
Funny but also a bit disgusting
Maybe the pin you can't feel already lines up with the shear line without a key being inserted?
So when it's tensioned, that pin is already "picked" without you doing anything.
Or the driver pin + key pin combined is so short, that the driver pin is actually under the shear line. So the only thing at the shear line is a spring. This would explain why it took extra effort to turn the core open; the spring was wrapping around the core as he was turning. He's made videos on quite a few locks where this is the case, and honestly it's really poor lock design
@lockpickinglawyer , the reason for the high security, low quality of LOTO locks is for safety. It makes it hard or impossible to take the lock off of a stored energy lockout without having some sort of visual evidence of being tampered with. Keeps fowl play away.
In my personal experience the US government will almost always go with whoever is the lowest bidder on their contracts regardless of quality.
Unless it's Boeing or hands out lots of pork to congressional districts, yep. Things like the Senate Launch System, the ULA, the F35 and other jobs programs, not so much. It's only our tax money, after all.
As a government, if you go with a bidder who is not the lowest, you have to have a solid reason to justify that. Not "I heard that this bidder was no good" or "The lowest bidder is always the worst bidder so we thought we wouldn't select the lowest this time". Must be a solid reason, such as "we've entered into contracts with them before and have encountered many problems with late delivery therefore we can justify paying 5% more to go with the second bidder".
The initial specifications and the monitoring during delivery are important. Without good specifications you'll get crap regardless. Without monitoring, they'll deliver crap and you won't find out for years.
In the future, if you disassemble a lock core like this, can you please show the outer part of the core to the camera from all angles?
I see you have the accuremote scales on your mill. Are you using touchDRO from yuri's toys? If not, it is definitely a great upgrade to a mini mill.
Huge fan here,
Chamber number 2 is larger than the other three on the core. I'm curious... How does this affect the picking process.
Will any of those other cores fit in the lock body? I have this lock, and a couple of those cores.. I'd like to try and swap them out if it's possible..
that master lock safety lock if its a LOTO core its not all spools... All master lock LOTO locks in chamber 5 have a serrated pin and the rest are spools...
LPL: The American Tragedy
Me: lol
Charlie Scene from Hollywood Undead: *heavy breathing*
Those sure were nice ways you once had on your milling machine. Harumph.
wow lovely looking lock and yes disappointing barrel :-(
+tonyholt90 Wow... going through the old stuff! Yes, it was a disappointment... not so much the lock, but what's happening at the company.
So what is the difference between 4 and 6 pins? 15 more seconds of lock-picking? I don't see the big deal...
Do serations even come into play in close fitting smooth diameter holes? You need some room to tilt off axis for an edge to snag up don't you?
That there is *always* at least a little room for movement is the whole basis of lockpicking.
Did you ever reload this with something better?
I couldn't even count how many times I saw that exact lock while I in the service, I don't know if it had the same core or not. We used it on every thing from our armory to lock boxes on trucks.
The other thing is these do not qualify as a brass padlock (for fuel or munition security) as the steel plate core retainer can cause sparks ....
Also, I think a normal APTC12 or APTC14 cylinder will fit in that lock without modification, you just need the corresponding actuator.
+Jeff Moss I'll check. I have the extra actuator, but I think the chamber needs to be milled deeper as well. I'll get around to it sometime soon, and post and update if warranted.
Interesting finding. Is it the bitting that makes it easy to open (many long key pins)? Like to see the continuation how the tragedy turns into a happy end.
+Potti314 Right now the old core (rekeyed and repined with 4 serrated drivers) is back in the lock using a standard screw/retainer. Putting a full sized core in would require machining, and a few new parts. I'm debating whether I will go through the trouble.
LockPickingLawyer - 3 years later...did you do it?
Great video! I think the long pins with the poor tolerances in this lock probably made for the "2 and 3 pin lock" feel. Sad how this is what the U.S Government uses...
I feel like this was recorded in the middle of the night
Why don’t you design a lock?
He would engineer it into Neverland.
There would always be that one more thing to add, change, or remove and it would never be finished.
Or it would be pickable and we couldn't have that.
Good job. Great vid. Shame fill such a beautiful padlock, with that trash of cylinder. Thanks for sharing, I would not want fanciest a lot of money on postage to buy a lock that brand and take it to Europe, to find that thing inside.
+Tallan Pick Thanks.
How often is picking an issue? One explanation may be that they don't worry about having cheap cores because people typically use destructive means if they're stealing things. Bolt cutters or lockpicks? I only ever saw bolt cutters and prying tools when I was in the Army even though we were up against cheesy locks.
Right? I mean bolt cutters are almost silent, and take 0 skill. Unless someone is trying to be in and out without you noticing, 9 times out of 10 they would just cut it.
@@HiTheNameIsBj It just gets funny when bill and others make fun of Master Lock. Yeah, they're mostly crap, but no one carries picks. Bolt cutters and slide hammers are cheap and don't look as conspicuous. We just all need to admit we're just geeks. Geeks with party tricks.
Idk why im watching this. I dont even care about this. Good video btw.
Master-so you want locks, requirements?
Government - yes, they need to be weather resistant.
Master-how secure should they be?
Government - hmm, a key should be fine.
That makes sense, corps often overprice and under deliver to to government to maximize profit. Ive seen this kind of laziness in multiple products. Its the non revokable contract, once yur in it clear sailing to the next contract.
LockPickingLawyer why is the amor piece black? Is it because it is a US lock or a non rekeyable lock?
Not sure... I've only seen chromed ones before this.
They may not want chrome accents on US locks.
Is there any lock you can't pick sir?
As a Veteran, this is not surprising. Lowest bidder and all. I used these locks to secure HMMWV steering wheels in the motor pool. When the keys were enevitably lost, they were just cut with bolt cutters and then replaced. Anything secured with these locks that I was privy to was already behind at least another layer of security. But still, the lock should be better if it is going to be used to secure weaponry.
If I wanted to find one of those Master Safety locks with the good core and terrible plastic body, what would I search for?
That would be their Series 410.
I have one of these! yep disappointing pick! strong spring as you say! great video.
Thanks. Yours has the same core?
+LockPickingLawyer Seems to be a 4 Pinner like yours, same markings. biting is fun, like a Bogotá! I'm not going to murder my one tho!!!! I love locks too much to destroy them! just seen your other video, have you no shame or mercy?
+richardwales "have you no shame or mercy?" Of course not. I'm a lawyer. :-P
+LockPickingLawyer good point!!!!
They put good cores in the lock out tag out locks to prevent accidental unlocks.
Am I wrong in thinking that there are specific requirements for US government locks? If so, how does this pass any standard!
+Rob Risla I have no idea. Honestly, a brass shackle padlock isn't much good as anything but a tamper seal. But it can't even work as that if it is that darn easy to pick!
www.masterlock.com/business-use/product/ASL40N says the current version is a 5 pinner. Presumably it’d be a 5-of-6 core.
See also: cdn.masterlock.com/masterlock/resources/documents/pdf/government/A-A-59486C.pdf
content.masterlock.com/masterlock/resources/documents/pdf/A-A-59487B.pdf
Note how *none* of the specs say anything about the actual security, except in the introduction where they are specified as low security.
Interestingly, they are required to have 10.000 or 4000 key changes and come in both master and grandmaster sets; I don’t think you could do that with the 4-pinner.
Jasper Janssen 4000 might be possible with 4 pins, 8 depths and radical bitting. That count presumably includes zero lift as one of the 8.
American actually makes some very nice brass bodied locks. I’ve bought a series that can accept a full sized IC cylinder and I load them up with a primus core. Makes a pretty good medium duty harsh environment padlock.
Your old videos are quite different. You don’t mention anything about the pick that Bosnian Bill and you made.
Where's a good place to get security pins?
LPL do you ever have the opportunity to talk with the engineers at American or Master lock and ask them why they do what they do? They must do trade shows or something. Just thought it would be interesting. Also why they would make that lock? It could be for a specific contract the .gov put out. Maybe its not so much the makers issue as it is the .gov's for the bid they requested.
I don't understand how the keyway makes picking difficult.
Love your videos they're very educational, but I was under the assumption from the beginning of your video, that you were going to put in a much better core, thus saving the lock from the disgrace category you felt so strongly about?
I get the impression some companies want to go bust. Either that or decision makers are being blackmailed by rivals.
Would that six pin core just fit in?
That lock gave LPL more trouble than most. The rivet, not the pins.
Goverment probubly signed some deal 50 years ago or somthing and wont renegotiate the deal. For example some kind of bulk deal that at the time was a relatively fair deal that probably benfited the government slightly more then master lock.
But years later that deal would be a loss on masterlocks side due to inflation. Thus they have started going cheaper and cheaper in the craftsmanship of the locks so they dont lose money.
theendofit 50 years ago, Master Lock or their parent company didn't own American Lock.
Is the driver in 4 simply too short?!
So you are saying masterlock ruin this lock brand ?
This is a good example of our tax money going down the drain, And the congressman that set up the sale to master probably got some kind of kick back.
Two of the key pins are very long, maybe they were flush with the cylinder, Pin 1 and 3, and bad tolerance.
I have seen the same thing. Master putting cores with 4 pin, virtual no security pinning in a US padlock but turn around and put a 6 pin core with security pins in an electrical panel lockout padlock with a plastic body. I wouldn't be surprised if you could rake this one open.
Yup. Makes no sense. The lock is rakable, but not consistently so. Bumping works as well, but again, about every 4-5x (then again, I'm not too good at bumping).
Manufacturing error?
That fourth driver pin looks too short - the top of it is probably sitting at the shear line.
You can always recognize a Master keyway core in an American padlock because the cover plate has a letter "K" stamped on it.
No need to drill ... the rivet it can be just punched out, with the right size pointed punch.
Unless this is a very unusual Padlock none of those Master Cores will fit in it ... the lug on the back of the core is oriented wrong ... it won't fit in ... Normally the Master Keyway cores are made specially to fit, American padlocks, with the American style lug on the back of the core.
Can't tell you how many soldiers we had lose their keys to the American Locks 5200 series locks on their tool boxes and we had to pick them open or just drill them out. They are pretty trash locks.
I know I am late to the party on this, but, sadly this is not unusual for government stuff, cut corners everywhere and it is unlikely to change with some of the budgets they give sectors of the governement, the IRS itself the budget it is given often barely keeps it running so a lot of what is bought to keep the Govt running is just above low quality.
The more of his videos I watch, the less I like Masterlock, and the more I envy his workshop.
I assume you do not trade in the markets. No one who does, and does it successfully long term, ever breaks the habit of not ever saying anything about "doing it just this once". It takes so long to get that version of pandora's box locked up, you don't dare take a chance of ever having it open again. Sorry, just had that conversation with a few people just two days ago. Of course, both they and you are a bit younger than me. Best regards, you do great stuff. Been subscribed since the first video I ever saw....
Should we call it "Lockgate?"
Yes but it's a brass hasp padlock, offering minimal security anyway, why does it need a better core when you can slice through the brass hasp with a little hacksaw in seconds? All brass padlocks like these are really only used as safety lockouts in situations where there may be flammable/explosive vapours., you wouldn't lock your bike up with it.
I agree, cutting it off is pretty straightforward, but by being cut off it's more obvious that it's been tampered with than if it were simply just picked. This is probably why Master Lock puts their best core into a plastic safety lock.
If it has decent security it provides evidence of unauthorized access when you have to break it to get it open.
Sam A Well for that job, Soviet Russia had the perfect lock. It was held closed by a signed piece of paper. Any opening, authorized or not, would make a tear in the paper.
Everything that's being built in America is like that! Second or third best. Buying, built in America doesn't necessarily mean quality these days.
Is that core off-set? # pins is what happens when Master takes over American (once a good padlock maker!) The Master Safety or Cut-out locks do have better pins and bidding why is a mystery to me. Another mystery is why the rivet the core guard/holder? Perhaps to keep eyes away from the nasty core!
+Peter M Not sure what you mean by "offset." If you mean the core sits in the lock at an angle, then yes... but no different from any other American lock... as for Master lock's impact on American... don't get me started!
I don't know why are you so surprised! Government contact? Has to pay bribes to get? Has to balance that bribe by saving money on quality? Nope?
Maybe it was speced that way for a reason to make it ez to pick then give it to an "ally"
The would imply competence and forethought. Something in very short supply in government.
@@jamestheotherone742 I disagree, I think the politicians cut funding off to the branches of government and as said departments run chronically underfunded (see FAA and plane incidents on the runway for example or IRS not doing its job due to shortage of inspectors, or post office "raising rates"). All the woes of government go back to the party's in power. Currently or in the recent past there has been a defund the government push and burn it all down(the government) and oh by the way vote for me and I'll light the match push. So if your department is supposed to run on 100 and you have funds for 25 and now the public is pissed at your department is it the government employee's at fault? or the politicians who cut the funding but did not cut the mandate of what the department was responsible for?.
This is all about us the citizens and who we put into office.
@@danowolf Thats really not the way it works at all.
Its not the parties or the politicians. Even totalitarian socialist dictators suffer from bureaucratic inefficiencies. Its the "agency problem". Government employees are rarely incentivized to avoid wasting funds or to seek the maximum value as they do with their own money. So you get things like this where "we" pay a premium for a sub-standard product.
The US Federal Government is lavishly funded, and deficient spends freely. There is no shortage of money at Fed. State, and local levels. What the problem is, is that we don't get a very good return on that money and it often creates price inflation on what we do get which produces even lower return. The stories of it are legion to the point of cliche. And that is both the politicians and bureaucrats fault.
Very little the citizens can do but vote for someone who wants to give them less money to burn and steal.
@@jamestheotherone742 The current government regularly underfunds the IRS so less audits occur. If the government politicians do not want something enforced they strangle it with no cash. Come on you know this.
@@danowolf Has nothing to do with the topic at hand (poor value for the money gov. spends) . Congress "strangling" something is how it enforces its check on the executive branch and agencies. Why do you not know this?
I saw American Tragedy and thought oh my god LPL is a Hollywood Undead fan, I was unfortunately disappointed.
I wonder if they got the government contract with a 6 pin core and then changed to 4 pins to increase profits. Every service man and woman rely on these locks to secure equipment that they are financially on the hook for if lost.
At this point "Surprisingly difficult to pick" for a master lock means anything more that simply staring at it or asking politely.
Is it ordinary to have a drilling machine in your basement in US!?
I would love to see that lock again with a good American core in it. It is a shame to see such a nice piece of brass filled with junk like that...
+Ith Bombgard I don't know if its possible. I would have to mill the innards out and do a fair bit of improvisation. I'm not sure it's worth my time.
+LockPickingLawyer That is unfortunate. I have never seen an all brass American, either. It will look nice on display or something at least.
Surely you do a series where you improve previously flawed locks to your standards
Keyed alike to Master Lock Brand key the US uses. I am not suggesting the US uses only this key. I am suggesting American offered this lock with a Master “keyed alike” to other Master locks used in a specific application. Master and American - owned by same co.
One of the pins in that master lock core could have easily been a zero lift pin, and considering they atleast tried on the pinning this time I wouldn’t be too surprised if a poorly implemented zero lift pin was the cause for only needing to pick 3 pins
Sold to the government on the Lowest Bid, what do you expect? But, I wonder if it meets the bid specs?
I was a quality manager there in the 90s. Long and sordid story about what happened. Very disappointed since.
masterlock cores are not all bad, it’s just that when they get the core right, the mess up the outside instead xD