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I entered the Army as a draftee in 1969 and rose to the rank of Sgt, E5) and went to Infantry OCS. As an NCO I liked the closeness with the enlisted men and as a company grade officer I was able to do the same. Once I became a Major (Field grade) I lost that closeness. It is really illustrated in "Band of Brothers" when Dick Winters has to leave Easy Company and go to Battalion Staff. I know that feeling and always had a special spot in my heart for the NCOs of the company I grew up in. That was the 82d Abn, A, C, HQ companies 4/68 Armor, later the 3/325 Infantry and Division Staff. As a Lieutenant Colonel, the fun was over and I started seeing the politics. As a Colonel, I knew I had to leave, as I could not play the politics and I was in close contact to career politicians and diplomats. Upon 30 years I retired. I look back on being a buck sergeant as the best days of my military career.
in 1986 while stationed in Sicily with the US Air Force, right at the height of the Cold War, i made rank was promoted to E5 SSgt. it was at a major turning point because of being short and having to make a decision... re-enlist or get out of the war and go back to working for the family business to fill a spot because of my grandfather retiring. in the US Air Force, we had the Ground Launched Cruise Missile program and these were deployed across five countries throughout Europe. it's been almost 40 years now but i think we had six flights (platoons?) and my Officers kept asking me to go to sign up for OTS (Officer Training School). my justification for not enrolling in OTS was the fact i would not be effective because i know i WOULD NOT let Command endanger the safety of MY Troops. years earlier, one of my Flight Chiefs at Nellis AFB would stand in front of the flight at Guardmount prior to shift and say, "NOBODY fucks you but ME. i don't care if you're wrong; if they don't go through the Proper Chain of Command, THEY are Wrong. i will deal with you later." i always respected that philosophy of dedication and protection of the troops under your Supervision. eventually, i chose my biological family over my military family because of the politics of the time. it has been a decision i have regretted ever since.
@@psychopompous3207 Thank you it was tough at times coming up through the ranks, as you are a bit of an outsider to the Academy grads. I got assignments others did not want. That DMSM, I bet anything you deserved it!
I was a scout for 7 years. I was really good at it so I promoted quickly and made E5 in 2 years. I was a terrible NCO because I couldn't separate myself from my guys and it ended up getting me demoted to E4 because one of them got arrested while I was out partying with them. At first I was super disappointed but instead of running the range, I got to shoot. Instead of training, I got to do the stuff and it made me realize not everyone is supposed to lead, and that young soldier probably needs a good mentor from that seasoned E4 just as much as a good team leader or commander. Maybe more.
Good take. I always disliked how the Army forces people to promote to failure. By this I mean that, due to Retention Control Points (RCP), you're pretty much forced to keep seeking the 'next level' even if you're not suited for this. This is especially true of the E4-E5 and E6-E7 jumps. There are a lot of good soldiers that aren't good NCO's and there shouldn't be anything wrong with that. Similarly, there are a lot of good SSG's that don't make good SFC's (or whatever the rank is in your branch). As a SSG, I really hated RCP because it forced me to promote Soldiers who I knew would be bad NCO's, but who were good Soldiers and didn't deserve to get kicked out of the Army for not promoting. The Army should give units a certain number of billets for long-serving enlisted personnel and junior/Staff NCO's that are good in their positions but just not cut out for the next level.
As a junior enlisted I remember looking at the officers thinking how nice it must be. Then I got promoted to an nco and suddenly all those added responsibilities really showed how stressful leadership positions are and that the grass isn’t always greener.
I love Enlisted, best people I've ever met. I am out now but thinking about coming back in, but I won't go back as Enlisted, I want to go Officer, I've seen the toxicity of senior Enlisted and I want to make a change, but I can't. Enlisted are there only to advise officers, they cannot, make a change. Sarnt Maj said stay in if you want to change things, and he's right and wrong. Stay in and go Officer if you want to change things. Enlisted is not the way to do it
Both ranks have their challenges. As a former Senior NCO I can attest to this. I met only a few officers I would follow to the death. I have only met one enlisted person in that same aspect. One officer was a 2000 Academy Grad. Right out of the shoot he was a leader. He made excellent decisions, was always there for his men and women, and had unbelievable Character. He is retiring in 24. I retired in 12. I will be attendence to give him a final salute.
I found real stress being an NCO and having young lives in my hands. It actually made me appreciate officers all the more as that burden of command is real, and stressful. All phases and chapters of a soldier's life are a challenge . Physically, being lower enlisted is the hardest, it will put miles on your body that you will only realize when you hit 40. The bonding I felt as lower enlisted cant really be replaced by anything at all .
The pay difference between Officers and Enlisted should make that soul crushing admin work feel ok. I was at the Pentagon and these 04s were pissed having to write an retirement award . I told them I’ll gladly do your award’s for a month pay difference as an e6 . They didn’t say much afterwards. Ha
Worked in the Army medical clinic there and I had 0-5's and 0-6's, I was an E-4, constantly ask how I was able to live in that area. I always told them I lived within my means. Best job I ever had in the Army. Many of them actually lived in W.V., slept in their offices during the week and commuted home by train for the weekends. This was back in 87'.
I would not say Officers are smart.The majority (general population) of officers have liberal arts or social sciences degrees. They majored in degrees that didn’t lead to any skills. They couldn’t cut it in the STEM or Healthcare majors. There are some officers who have a STEM or Healthcare major, but that is not the general population. Most Officers major in Criminal Justice, Sociology, History, Business, Administration, Health and Fitness (not a authentic STEM or Healthcare), English and Philosophy. Officer that come in with a degree think they are special because they have a resemblance of authority. But they can’t do much on the civilian side when they get out. There no opportunity except another government job, or if they majored in something that taught them an actual skill.
Not all officers are smart. In fact, the most I've met are no where as smart as enlisted. They just have a degree (shows commitment) and became shitty officers.
@@choncha23 going to go out on a limb and say you never served because this is objectively nonsense. You will find a significant number of officers with liberal arts degrees but in a job that is ever-changing, requires a high level of literary proficiency, and the ability to effectively problem-solve and think outside the box when it comes to the micro- and macro planning processes, that type of education is not lost. The combination of STEM and classically educated officers is necessary for the success of the corps. As for job opportunities, most officers can shoot straight into a well-paying middle management gig in the corporate or government world. Same concepts, new vernacular. Just like on the enlisted side, you’ll have your fair share of high performers, knuckle draggers, and everything in between. Officers are just higher vis so you notice the subpar performers more easily. Source: prior NCO, current officer.
@@paytonmogford784 I am sorry you break it to you, but I did serve --- US Army. I can tell you served because you remark on the same talking points every other career NCO or Officer spews. In your case, you happen to be both. lol. Jobs in the military are not ever-changing. Stop lying to yourself, please. A few MOS' translate very well to civilian life: IT, Healthcare, MP, Special Operators (private contractors), and pilots. I am going to define "transition well" for you. A MOS where the individual ETS'd yesterday and gets hired tomorrow, with a salary of 90k plus. This has to be done in the private sector, not another Government job. I will address your terribly constructed run sentence--- sentence number two. I will assume you have not left the military in a very long time. What you just stated is complete robot talk. It works well when looking good in front of the higher-ranking officers or the hungover junior enlisted. Nothing you said works in the civilian sector, right now. It might have landed you a job 20 to 40 years ago. Today, employers are looking for certifications, degrees, and years of experience. In that particular order. Unless you are a 35F. 35F's are the special unicorns. These motherfuckers can get a lot of fucking money and can jump to management rapidly. Oh lord... You have it completely wrong. Most Officers cannot shoot straight to mid-management jobs. The higher ranking (O-7 and above) can get mid-management jobs with a defense contractor. You are drinking the kool-aid. Officers transition well to another government job, but you do not start in management. It takes a couple years. The only thing the Military prepares you for is another government job. I know a ton of guys who are doing great who are pensioned, retired from the military, and working to be pension retired from their government job. They also receive a nice disability check from the VA. It's a good gig to have 150k in pensions/VA checks at 70. But I will say this: most of the guys I know who are like this are alone because they have always placed the job first and family last. Sure, they have a 2023 Corvette or EV Hummer. Most of these guys are at the VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars). But for the most part, they seem happy. I would be happy too. Source: ETS'd from the Army in 2021 as Combat Veteran E4 King Shammer. But now, I am a Registered Nursing Student who studies at the VFW for free coffee and cheap beer.
I wish I'd had this advice (and your other excellent advice) in 1986 when I joined the Army. I went infantry and airborne and was assigned with 2/504, 82 ABN, saw combat in Panama and then left after my four years for college. While in university I expected that I'd graduate and then go back in through the OCS route. My best experience was serving 18 months as my company commander's RTO on our battalion net as it really gave me an excellent view of my little operational world and a very good relationship with an officer who I learned to greatly respect. My CO tried to get me to go to West Point prep, but I was too immature at the time to grasp the opportunity. While in university I became interested in civilian law enforcement and gravitated toward that career path. What really stopped me from going back to the Army was the soul crushing busy work and all of the hurry up and wait that I experienced while I was enlisted. Again, a broader view and more maturity would have helped (as well as your great advice had it been available), but in the end I picked police work and was hired after graduation. I worked my way through the ranks and recently retired, but I've always regretted that I did not resume my military life as an officer. The responsibility and focus on producing results in a combat arms or SOF life simply can't be found elsewhere. You're doing a wonderful job helping young people and I wish you'd been around dispensing this advice about 35 years ago!
Spent half of my career as an enlisted infantry (2 combat deployments) and the other half as an Engineer Officer. The officer role was way more stressful and mentally draining. Engineering Officers get lots of stressful field work. While others sleep, the officer is planning and fixing all the sh&t happening the during the operations. Officer schools are impressively hard and passing ratio sometimes very low. Obviously, benefits are way better for the officer (especially retirement pay).
Dude, your breakdowns are so legit. Such a good resource for young or future Soldiers to make informed decisions and draw inspiration. Personally, looking back on my short career which had 1 GWOT deployment as a Junior 11A... I think the best jobs are deployed O1/2 and E5/6. If you are a young person, watch every single one of these videos (work out) and study history. You will be so much ahead of peers.... I also left, mainly because time on BN staff was soul crushing after Scout PL. I didn't have the intestinal fortitude to work for a week, only to have the old man (BNCO) go 100% the opposite direction of my proposed plan.
Spent my career as an enlisted MP primarily in the reserves, but came from a family of almost all officers. Just before I ETS’s two of my cousins came by to visit both were at the Academy, one actually got In trouble her senior year and spent 2 years enlisted including a deployment to Iraq, the other had caught and now passed his older sister & was at my installation for OBC. The older sister was was already on orders back to West Point to complete her last semester. They asked me for advice. Take care of your troops but don’t neglect your mission. Remember that as an O-1 you’re essentially no different than a private, just better educated and older, and being in the Reserves even that’s not even always the case. As such listening to the PSG for the first year until they got their feet wet. The older sister has time as a troop so she will understand things that her brother (brothers actually because her other two younger brothers were still at the Academy) will never get, and predicted that she would be the best officer out of them family. Turns out I was right, she had more time in service and ranked higher than the other 3.
Officers have two benefits. Pay and post career opportunity. Maybe not as a junior grade officer, but in Canada when you progress to the rank of Major, you will have a variety of cushy jobs available to you in the public service or mid tier government positions. As well as the excellent pay as you gain experience. As an extra bonus it is quite a respected position in society, if this matters to you. An enlisted soldier may be shat on by their relatives/peers, but officers don’t usually get that unless it’s work-related.
In America, respect is given to anyone who served regardless of their rank or MOS. There are those who hate the military in general and will disrespect anyone who served
It took me 2 years to make Sgt in the army infantry. I had some great platoon leaders in my time, one's that wanted their NCO's advice during tactics but had some that thought they knew everything and failed at missions and blamed the NCO's. We were on the 50 cal firing range and this lieutenant of ours wouldn't listen to the NCO's running the range, he pulled himself out of the turret without clearing his 50 cal like he was told and hit the trigger. It fired a round into the back of a 113 in front of us and took off the arm of one soldier and killed another. Needless to say he lost rank and was kicked out of the army. Some officer's really care about their men yet some just believe they are God's gift. They should be taught to listen to NCO's that have been there many years longer than them.
Reminds me when I was a Cadet, and I was spending the summer at Sector San Francisco. While I was there, I got the chance to do some training on a 47' MLB. For those who don't know that is the big Motor Lifeboat you see training in the surf in pairs. The Sector Commander took the opportunity to ride along and while talking to him he was hoping to hit some big waves and get soaked. Both boats took some waves over the bow, and everyone was soaked. I have never seen an O6 so happy in my life.
I just wanna take time to give our amazing veterans the biggest thank u I can for ur service no words can express my appreciation for every single one of u guys god bless 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Retired officer who was previous enlisted - I would also add that the ASSUMPTION that being an officer is harder comes from the fact that fewer people are capable to be an officer. This is not actually because it's harder but because it's a rarer skill set. Similar but nor the same.
Total. Bullshit. 99% of all enlisted troops are absolutely capable of getting a commission. I worked for a Major who had a 4-year degree in music. He played the trombone. He was THE most incompetent sack of sh!t I ever ran across. Major Donald R. Nicklin. He's still out there.
It was briefly mentioned but the Warrant Officer is kind of a hybrid. Where rank is normally gained by sacrificing "doing stuff" for "admin stuff" it's different from WC. They are technical experts. Their advancement is more based on their subject expertise, not their people managing skills. They are keepers of knowledge so they are officers, not, they are officers so let them have knowledge. He's the guy or girl nobody f's with because in the end we all rely on the technical experts. Like em or hate em.
Issue is Warrant Officers don't exist, they're a myth. Ever seen one in real life? Exactly you haven't, and if you have it was an illusion your brain made up to justify the rank system. (sarcasm)
I have been following this channel since I was a cadet. Now I am a 2nd LT going into Signal BOLC. His fitness content, plus all of the other good stuff here is such a good resource for a butter bar like me.
Sir....... I'm a retired Marine Corps MSGT. And specifically joined to fight waaaaaay back when we were still using the M16A1's. In my humble opinion sir, you left out one VERY CRITICAL point worth considering. Promote-ablilty. I've seen dozens of fine officers NOT get augmented (by some Admiral/General) and forced out of the service (Navy/Marine Corps Specific) . As an enlisted man, I knew I'd never have that problem. A very good high school friend of mine, went to and graduated from the Air Force Academy, he became an F-16 pilot, and selected into the astronaut program,.... He couldn't get promoted to Major, and was shown the door out of the United States Air Force. The competition is especially keen to stay in uniform.
Total respect for USA and spec ops. I guess the older you get in the military, the more forgiving and thoughtfulness you have for all your brethren. The mentorship for young officers by NCO’s can’t be understated. Being an idiot officer allowed me to learn about our trade. That conversation remained solid through out my 26 years. My being a spoiled AF pilot allowed me to reach out to the best in the enlisted ranks and was never disappointed. Your composition calculation time isn’t far off. As a flight safety officer, I would show up at midnight, 2am and really see what’s happening. That’s how I learned about these amazing crew chiefs, expediters, specialists and others in -20F in ND.
I was a 1LT (LTA) from the Singapore Armed Forces, originally trained for Artillery gunnery but ended up being posted to the admin side of a radar battalion (didn't get to do what I trained for). For someone like me, admin work took up 90% of my life. Alot of the time, being a junior officer is like being the mediator between the higher ups and the subordinates. Dealing with the expectations of senior officers and trying to relate to my subordinates was pretty challenging especially since most of us are conscripts and did not choose to serve therefore lacked interest.
Was a mortar dect commd back during NS. While my Mortar PC was busy running around and planning 80% of the time for missions and coordinating with the FO boys on the ground, my PS ran most of the ground work show. Often I find myself finding my PS for guidance and instructions before relaying it to my boys because my PC is busy "fighting fire" with the higher ups. Wouldnt want to add more work to him. So whatever you just shared about being the mediator.. Im sure my PC would relate a lot to it. Being a 3SG myself... It ain't that bad. Not complaining though. :)
In your last phrase, its opposite here in the Philippines. Majority of people somehow are military enthusiasts but could not get through volunteer service because of lack of quota.Armed Forces is low budget, I can only envy your military hardware.
This isn't to say that I regret my time in the SAF. I loved being a PS and am still close to my company command team till this day. I just wish that I had spent less time focused on the job and spent more time with my men. I really wanted to sign on but the understanding of the politics got to me. I understood that being on the ground (even as a spec), ends after your PS tour. You spend the rest of your time in staff tours until you hit CSM then RSM. It ends up the same as any other desk job and I couldn't take that. I love the SAF and I love Singapore, I just believed that I learned what I could from the army and it was time for me to move on. I wish the best to the regulars that I know, it's just not the life for me.
Went green to gold. The lessons you learn as an enlisted man absolutely helps you become a better leader as an officer. As an enlisted you see so much crap so it helps you learn from bad and good leaders.
I serve in the Army Cadets and I have the rank of a MWO (Master Warrant Officer, a high rank for us). I WAS a WO (Warrant Officer) and that's when I realized "damn, I got responsibilities now, I need to step my game up". I started whipping myself into physical shape and a learning how to be a leading role model (They also train you this when you're a Sergeant). Once promoted to MWO, I understood that my officers were recognizing my improvements. Its been about 3 months being the rank of MWO, and its for sure a tough role. With the amount of leading, and looking after the other junior cadets, it really puts in perspective how important you are when you have a high rank. Great video!
I truly enjoy listening to your videos. I personally served in the regular army from 14 Feb 2011 through 14 Aug 2014 as a 91M. Listening to your videos as I am preparing for my day does several things for me. It reminds me of what I've been through during my time in service, and that I am capable of so much more as a civilian. It reminds me that I do have the mental and testicular fortitude to achieve what is necessary to be successful based on my view of it. Thank you so much💯
Somebody did an article "100 Worst Jobs in America" every year. Military officer consistently ranked #2 and enlisted ranked #1. Yeah, that's about right. Officers have it a little less worse than enlisted, but civilians have it much better than both. A lot of former enlisted like to complain about officers. A lot. Especially now that officer pay is bad while enlisted pay is ridiculously horse s__t low. I say there are plenty of other targets.
What? I was an officer for ten years and loved it. Best "job" I've ever had, and all my NCO friends agree. (Serving isn't a job, it's a calling). Whoever "did" that article didn't know what they were talking about, and neither does anyone who'd believe such a thing.
@@honestreviewer3283 Really? What's about the military to like? The dumb paperwork? The nonsensical rules? The constant lectures about how you're the wrong sex/race/religion? The part where you don't do any actual fighting, run away from the terrorists, and call a drone strike? The part where we abandon the country we were supposedly trying to build up to the Taliban? Every day, I get up, and I go to work building electric cars. Not because I believe it'll help the planet, but because they're the only people out of thousands willing to hire me after the military got done using me. And because Barack Hussein Obama thought it would be a better use for my life than what I wanted to do with it. So much for freedom. Besides, even if environmentalism wasn't bullcrap, why would I care if the Earth burns? I won't have any descendants. It'll be the children of people who hate me who inherit the Earth. Screw that "calling" bullcrap. I heard it once and it led me the wrong way. And screw that Jewish God of yours that sends people on that path. It seems all he cares about is his tribe. Just like everyone else.
Well, I can tell you weren't in the military, or, if you were, you were there because you couldn't think of anything else to do and didn't take advantage of the many opportunities and career paths it offers. I was an officer for 10 years and was earning $100K at the time I resigned, and as a civilian I continue to get $100K+ jobs. Like so many on the internet, you don't know what you're talking about, and yet want to argue with people who do.
You’re spot on about the life (no life) as a staff officer. I started as an E-1 and retired as an O-5 and each step up the ladder had new professionals and personal challenges. Two tours on the DA staff almost killed my marriage, my wife could deal with deployments but having no life stateside was too much. The best thing I did was retire before I went on my third DA staff job.
I served as a submarine officer. We had at least a dozen enlisted submariners later get their commission. NONE of them went onto to be a sub JO. I'll let you decide why.
I’m grateful for the more specific description you gave Whenever I hear people talk about Officer Vs. Enlisted, I’m thankful for the info, but it’s usually kind of vague or goes over my head. Rock in 🤘
Richard Winters from Band of Brothers always stands out to me as an ideal combat officer. While they don't mention it much in the miniseries, the book mentions that he was a "see things for himself" kind of guy, always scouting ahead of his men to assess the situation before returning and laying out a plan. He was also a natural scholar, and studied things down to the fine details, which is why he was especially a force to be reckoned with when it came to calling artillery strikes. Competence is the key, then improvement and eventually excellence. Learning -> Competence -> Excellence -> Perfection, with persistence and determination as the driving force.
If you’re mature and have some life experience; officer is the way to go. These traits can be disseminated to those that follow your lead. Enlisted could be seen as ‘the school of hard knocks’ dependant on your service, and you’ll get out what you put in.
Benning OCS CLS 02-03. Was a SSG in the 75th RR before going to the dark side. Video is spot on. My weapon as a ABN Rifle PL was my Radios. NCOs execute the plan.
One element to add is discipline. As an enlisted, you can screw up and recover really well, especially early in your career. As an officer? Your career has to be near-perfect at all times. No lateness, no DUIs (driving while drunk).. near perfect. You don't see too many officers with Article 15s. They rather push them out.
That depends on wartime or peace time operations. If you lose your security clearance recovering isn’t easy and at a certain point your career is over no matter what rank you are.
Thankfully for me, all my NCO's and Officers are chill guys. I respect them a lot. The first month of me joining, i kept wishing i was an officer so i can do less work. But now i'm 2 years in, I swear the officers do way more work than we do. Huge respect. The worst part i realized about being an officer, is you bring your work home. cause more often than not. When i get called to come to the base, He's already there.
I was enlisted, then officer for about 10 years each. Generally each has it's benefits and drawbacks, just as some jobs and assignments are harder and other are easier.
Watching this from my brigade, I am part of the finnish marines, and im getting my first promotion tomorrow which will make me an ”undersergeant”, its going to be the first promotion I recive which will give me authority over others, I’m super excited, from this video it seems like your officers and nco’s are what we call officers and ”underofficers”, were the usual ranks of the officers are, Lieutenants, captain Lieutenants, commodores and when you finnish the reserve officers school, you immideatly become a 2nd Lieutenant. This is compared to our underofficers which consist of undersergeants, sergeants, oversergeants, boatsmen, and the coolest and one of the most rare ranks in finland; ”Military Masters” Anyways, I thought It was a really interesting video! UPDATE: I got a notice that I’ve gotten chosen for the special forces of our brigade!! Hellll yeaaaaaaaa
I was both. Made it up to SFC before going to OCS. The admin/doing percentages are the same for many support jobs too as long as you are in an active FORSCOM BCT.
Great video, I like the way you broke it down, but I have a few comments.. As an Armor PL, I spend most of my time doing admin work. I would love to train 75% of the time, but that just isn't the case. I'm sure for high-speed units like the 75th this may be the case for junior officers, but for most of the 'regular army' we get bogged down in the paperwork, admin and personnel actions.
You’re spot on. As an enlisted Soldier I progressed through the NCO rank. It’s absolutely correct that the privilege of rank is more responsibility and longer hours. Sure there are other privileges that come with rank but it’s not as everyone thinks. I was not in a combat arms MOS, so I was pampered compared to what many endure but you’re analysis is a good one.
100%. As an officer not only did I have to be an effective soldier, I also had to plan the training and logistics, make sure my unit was effective and soldiers were taken care of (my snr nco's did a fantastic job doing the last 2). Last to eat, last to sleep. After 2 years of fun in the field the rest of your career is soul-sucking admin. If I had it to do again, I'd enlist
Excellent! My father was still serving as a CSM when I was commissioned in 1969. I know his experience. During Vietnam it was one year as 2LT, one 1LT and the Captain after 2 years of total service! I planned a career, but after a really bad commander and getting stuck on staff I changed my mind. Reserves and Guard more fun. Always thought I would have made a better NCO. You are right on target.
@@jeb6704 I would buy your story as true. I have talked to many that in the Vietnam era got promoted fast. Now, without a war going on, it will take you probably 5-years to make 03. This has always been the case with the American army between peacetime and wartime. During wartime, the people in senior leadership positions who can't handle their jobs get dismissed and there suddenly becomes a lot more advancement up.
out of all my time as an enlisted member of USMC (8 yrs) and US Army (22 yrs), my time as a SSG was the best. Becoming a SFC tied me into BN more, and started me on the path you mention of more admin time. But even as a squad leader, I recognized my job was to be the umbrella to protect my men. And it only got better as a 1SG, where I could affect training, schools, etc... and culminated as a CSM, where I could make sure the enlisted were taken care of, and foster the growth and mentor the junior officers and commanders in the BN.
I was an Infantry officer in the mid-1970s. The Army was in a bad way, and instead of my initial plan of 30 years, I resigned after 4-1/2 years. I was too blind to go SF, and I was hurt at Ranger School. I was a platoon leader in Korea in the 2nd ID and, after my injury, ended up as a HQ Detachment Commander in Germany. I sent a guy to SF while I was a commander, and he earned his Green Beret and also went on to Delta Force. I wrote him a letter while he was at the Q Course at Bragg, and I meant then and I mean now that, had I been enlisted, I probably would still be in the Army. Officer corps politics and assignments were exactly as you described - soul crushing. Thanks for a great discussion of the difference.
Thanks for this video, it is really helpful for people like me. I have been very conflicted about enlisted vs officer routes, but this video helped cement the goal of becoming an officer into me more. It’s not that I want to do desk work, God no, but when you say that having a bad leader makes the jobs if the enlisted harder… I want to become a good leader so that I can better serve those enlisted, so I need to become an officer. Maybe it’s less fun, maybe I’ll have to do a bunch of nerd stuff that I’ll hate, but that’s why it’s a service and not just a dream job I guess. Currently a freshman in AROTC, I’m applying for West Point and Annapolis too, with the goal of being a combat arms officer, ideally in SOF. This channel is hands down my best resource in navigating life right now, I cannot thank you enough!
If Westpoint doesn’t work out I subject doing rotc in college or commission with your home state in the guard and then transition to what you want afterwards because you can commission with 90 credits with your state or OCS after completion of your bachelors
Served 21 years AD, 1972-1994 Ranks: E-1, E-2, E-3, E-4, E-5, E-6, then: WOC, WO-1 CW-2, CW-3, then: O-2, O-3(P) All was medical, so besides the difference in line units vs. medical department assignments, it is easiest being a Warrant Officer. Why???? Most know enough to leave you alone to do your specialized work.
Regardless of if Officers are more experienced or not, being a leader in a war zone is some real tough shit. You need to be someone special to do it right. So there may be shit talk about them sometimes, but at the end of the day, if you get back to base safely, they did their job.
First of all - thank you for your service to our country. I have known a few who went for Special Forces. They were not necessarily the best athletes - they were guys who kept to themselves and did not brag about what they wanted. I thought of joining the military - the hardest I ever worked was in High School football in "HELL WEEK" - Summer full dress practice in 90+ heat. I look back fondly, but figure that is what training would be full time in the military in SF. I did get a college degree, and considered OCS - but know now it would have been very difficult. So alas I entered the working world, and sit thanking people like you to keep us safe. Father was OCS Coast Guard, but decided to "HAVE FUN" at college...Thank you for guiding the few would would choose this life.
This man speaks 100 percent truth.... I would like to add one thing....they are both work hard but in different ways..... do not ever think the military isnt work its all work and little bit of play....... I would choose to be enlisted every time. Nothing like working hard with soldiers and seeing that oneness with them when we finish a mission and know it was only thru our hard work and sweat we made it there.
I joined the reserves while I was in college so I could become an officer. But once I saw how little fun the officers had compared to the enlisted, I decided I’m just staying enlisted.
I definitely think being the boss, especially relating to combat arms? Would be the more challenging positions to strive for. Platoon leaders, XO's and unit commanders still have to go out with their subordinates and embrace the suck. Those that don't, generally don't last in those positions.
I thought I wanted to be a cool guy shooting guns, but 2 years in a combat arms MOS has made me realize that that admin life looking real good. Before you sign that 11b contract (or other combat arms), realize you’re not watching a movie, reading a book, or playing a video game, you’ll actually physically be out there in the field doing that hard shit like staying up all night or working all day. Genuinely imagine you’re outside, in the cold, running off of small amount of sleep all while you’re being ordered around by your higher ups for weeks. If it still sounds worth it after thinking about it, then that’s what you’re meant to do in the military. Go be the cool guy kicking down doors, just know what you’re really getting into. Also, go in good shape with a good attitude.
For various reasons, (6 year enlistee, got E-3 in basic training), a below the zone promotion to E-4 (at 18 months), and making SSgt (E-5) first time I tested, I sewed on SSgt as a 20-year old. Didn't do me any favors, when I was the youngest in my unit, AND the unit supervisor. I failed hard...but I learned, and got better. Whether your career is easy or hard depends 100% on the ability of the individual to, in the words of someone smarter than me, "adapt and overcome." My last job, as a civilian, I ran a facility that had 240 workers..and I had a retired full colonel work for me. He hated it, and quit, when he discovered I was a retired E-8. He was too arrogant to allow me to direct his actions. Heh heh.
I'm still debating whether to join my national Marine Corps (the Netherlands) as a officer or to enlist after I finish my bachelor degree. Personally I like the work of the enlisted marine more, but because of my degree and the huge difference in pay/career opportunities of an officer, I still find it a difficult choice.
Im in the US navy a chief which is an E-7 who has on average 15 years in navy gets paid the same as a O-1 ensign who joined and went to the academy vs an E-1 the salary is 700 every 2 weeks which is on par with getting paid 2$ a hour
I enlisted in the USMC with a bachelor’s degree. I only stayed my four years, but I’m positive if I would have stayed in and become an officer, I would have been a better officer for doing so.
Also it Depends what type of degree you’re doing. If it’s something related to science such as computer science, biology or engineering or something relate between those two you could get career chances and opportunities once you’re in by taking special training.
I graduated from a military high school and studied here from the age of 14 to 18. After school, I joined the unit as a sergeant OR3 at the age of 18. I ended up in the army as a warrant officer OR7 at the age of 29. From the beginning, I had subordinates, as an engineer of an anti-aircraft missile battery, as a missile preparation specialist, as a commander of a missile complex. Thanks to the school, I never found it difficult to lead people, to teach them, to command them. one has to know when to be tough, when to be gentle, when to give advice, when to talk to the soldier about problems. He must monitor the relationships in the unit, recognize the weaker personalities and the strong ones in the unit. It's a nice job
The timing of this video is perfect 👌 because I'm officially in the force and the talk of transition from enlistment to an officer has quite common soo I wanted even more info much as possible before making such choice. So far its all depends on the individual.
I'd like to offer that for many non-combat arms those proportions of time being "operational" (most involved with the operators you support) vs "rear echelon" (more detached work often because it's strategic/long looking) works out about the same as your examples. So this is applicable for the POGs and nonners as well.
This is a very good overview and young people should look at this for an insight into going into the army or marines. And I enlisted, maxed the tests, was commissioned, and retired as a colonel. I was on the DMZ in Korea, in the Mekong Delta in Vietnam, and commanded an artillery battalion in Germany. In basic training I was put on KP, and they forgot me, and I was there for 24 hours. They gave me the day off and no more KP, and I knew that I could do anything. It is a very fluid environment, and flexibility is very important. When they ask you if you could do something, it is because they have no one else to ask. So do that thing. Whatever it is. I never worried about efficiency reports because I was doing what needed to be done, and the rest falls into place.
Was a SPC4 gunbunny when I arrived at Benning's school for 90 day wondeerkids. The physical misery of the field fell on everyone equally. My E-4 time was much more fun than my trip from O-1 to 3. Never doubted the men subordinate to me were my equals, and as long as we did our job we were good to go. Never forgot or doubted the reason we salute after the card we were issued at the reception station that stated that the salute was an exchange of respect between equals. Was still a butter bar when my BN commander enlightened me of the difference between subordination and superiority.
One assignment as a SNCO, every year I would get a new 2nd Lt for about 6 months until his flight school would start. His primary duty has to learn how to "military" from SNCOs. Mentoring young O's was very rewarding.
I’ve always wanted to serve in the military ever since I was young I remember playing military growing up with sticks as guns and pinecones as grenades as I grew older I was more and more interested in the military I really wanted to join the Air Force security forces but I have high functioning autism and a learning disability and when I was 13 or 14 I went through brain surgery because I had a rare muscle disease called dystonia after I had the surgery it took my spasms away and then high school came I was to hyped for my freshman year to talk to recruiters and when I got there and I told them that I’m on certain medications I have a disability as well as brain surgery they turned me down I was extremely crushed and depressed and now I’ve conquered my mental health and I’m a senior member in civil air patrol as a officer it definitely fills the void of wanting to serve.
This is gonna be more of a rant to blow off some steam, but I am an EMN2 (E5 nuclear electrician) in the submarine Navy. From this experience, I can say officers on Subs are treated much better. They have their own beds, don't have to do 8 hours of maintenance after 8 hours of watch, and they get bah, which we dont, despite nuclear enlisted being some of the smartest, most qualified people in the fleet and having gone through the most difficult academic training in the entire military. You also deal with the typical enlisted discipline bs, despite it not meshing well with the industrial environment of running nuclear reactors. You also still have to respect the brainlet chiefs in the cone even though you come to the boat with more quals and knowledge of systems than they do. It's a shitty dynamic, and nukes are the hardest workers in the blue water fleet. (Not talking Specwar, seabees, etc)
During peace days: Officer life easier --> admin work, drinking tea, ordering people to do stuff (If you know how to delegate, no one can challenge your rank). During wartime or when stuff goes wrong: Corporal is eaiser --> Just follow the order, when in danger, try to survive at all cost. You ain't responsible for the deaths of a 100 unless is directly your fault like you sleep while on sentry duty and enemy attacked. Usually during a mission, if mission goes haywire, your platoon commander will be at fault. For officer --> whether the battle is in chaos, it is your responsiblity to turn the tide around. Sure enough you can pintpoint your soldiers fault for not following etc but at the end of the day, the public looks at you. And if you lose a 100 soliders, you better not return home alive. The pressure sure is there.
Best way I can summarize the difference between officer stress and NCO stress (assuming both are competent): Officer stress front end (Planning) NCO stress mid end (Execution) Both stress rear end (Review and Refinement)
Been in combat arms mostbof my career and only 2 times was I in Staff. Both times as a BN Engineer representative for an Infantry BN. It made me far smarter in the scope of Battle and Logistics. However my time as a line Grunt, team Leader, SQD Leader and working with SOCOM in support roles where far more fun and I looked forward too much more.
Honestly, I always wanted to be a NCO and do more stuff instead of just staying behind a desk all day and night filling reports. But, I decided officer was the way to go, as I’ve had a lot of leadership experiences in many ways. I’m also fine with staying behind a desk all day, as it may be draining, but for me it’s better then risking your life. Not saying risking your life is bad, but it’s my personal opinion, but will risk my life if needed.
Great video as always ! I'm going in the french army next year. Currently training to maybe be able to go straight to special forces. I have the choice of starting out at the bottom of the ladder or as a "sous-officier". I hate desk jobs, paperwork, but I like leadership and responsibilities so I still hesitate a bit ( although I think I prefer starting at the bottom ). Thank you for this video that helps me a ton making my choice.
sous-officers (non-commisoned) ARE NOT the officers that are being talked about in this video. This video is talking about commissioned officers (I.e. Lieutenant, Capitaine, Commandant, etc)
A Non-Commissioned Officer, or sous-officer, is not a commissioned officer. I was enlisted, including NCO rank, for 10 years and then as a commissioned officer for 11 years. I also deployed alongside the French military, which I found very professional and honorable.
After watching this video and making the comparison I think being enlisted would be better for me personally but I wouldn’t mind being an officer due to the fact that I have no wife and kids and I’m more team oriented than worrying about what I want because like it’s been said it’s a team effort to defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies foreign and domestic, and not about what you want.” Service before self” as one of the values of the branch I’m investing my time in (still a civilian)
You guys need to also watch former Navy Seal Jake Zweig’s UA-cam video on enlisted vs officer. Great video like Life is a Special Operation, realllly puts things into brutal perspective. No BS.
Field when I was younger ,🇺🇸🇺🇸⚓️⚓️🇺🇸🇺🇸 Desk for when ya all spent ,bad knees, blow back ,broken bones ,just only have so many miles in ur body , A nother great video, Your knowledge and insight is impressive,an perspective , Thank You for ur Service and commitment to our great country you are a patriot thank you
"Soul crushing desk jockey"... 🤣🤣🤣 Yep, I was enlisted half my Army career and retired as a promotable CPT. I had already been a BN S3 for a year and a half. There was no way in hell I was going to do that job again as a MAJ.
It would depend how heavily you value physical work vs the burden of responsibility. If deaths in your unit will weight heavier on you than it does for your men and you have to carry on, I would say a Sir has it harder. The few truly truly good sirs I had in Batt made the admin job look very easy. The guy I looked up to most would take alot of of risks to give his men the mission the not only wanted but excelled at. On the X every time if it was feasible. He would ruffle the whole regiment above him if it meant a tiny win for his boys. And his platoon absolutely adored him, I have never seen a more popular PSG and PL pair in my life as LD3. When it comes to enlisted, NCO’s share a large burden of authority and responsibility and enlisted are the ones getting their hands dirty on op after op. It kind of depends on who you are as a leader. A bad officer just looking to sit in the background, take no responsibility, ruffle no feathers and coast off the achievements of his NCO’s while also blaming failures on them isn’t very hard. With the right connections you could sail through promotions without ever truly leading anyone.
The jobs I enjoyed the most, being a Rifle Platoon Leader, Company Commander, and BN SPO. Company Commander was the most demanding and rewarding position for me.
I listen to all of you, and you are so remarkable. I cannot believe how hard you guys work for your country, and I truly would love to say from the bottom of my heart I think you all so much all of you who are military and special forces I know you suffer so much I know you all do but special forces suffers more, and for that, I would like to salute you and tell you how grateful I am as an American. I am very proud of you all of you. I also am very proud of our first responders whether it be police firefighters doctors nurses whatever God bless you all and thank you all for your jobs and your work.
Im a 20 year old in university, thinking of joining up once I graduate. Seems obvious that I should join as an officer, but man enlisted seems like such a more exciting path
I used to be an enlisted man in army intelligence. Now, I’m a college student who is going back into the army with an officer’s commission after I get my bachelor’s degree. Considering I’ll be thirty when I go back in, being an officer will be a better fit for me.
Great vid. Now that you have progressed to civi life. Would you say being an officer was more advantageous to your post-military success than being enlisted?
You have a great question here, nowadays, there are many enlisted that have more college than some officers. The education level has risen in the NCO ranks. Many NCOs see how young LTs get treated by them o5's and above. Why would you want to get belittled and embarrassed as a person? Why should some enlisted go Green to Gold when there's no need anymore? I have witnessed in the BN XO at a BN formation (a Major) yell at the LTs in the middle of the BN formation instead of taking them to the side; personally, I believe that was very unprofessional. especially for them young LTs to experience. I know I'm only an enlisted with a college education, but why would I want to get belittled like that when I'm already an NCO and can continue with my service? I can still get a great job opportunity when I finish my time; the times have changed. There is no more of that facade of enlisted being uneducated.
@@DozSkills Yeah I would agree. I know a master sergeant went through college with almost a 4.0 GPA, higher than 90% of cadets. But I think when push comes to shove the army always needs its bureaucrats, planners, and administrators.
@@DozSkills You're talking about senior officers disrespecting junior officers, but we all know senior enlisted enjoy shitting on junior enlisted almost every chance they get.
@ethanfleckenstein2334 and I also don't agree with that. But times have changed, you don't see it as much disrespect as you use to in the 90s and early 2000s.
Im a Airborne Vet. Officer is way harder for sure. As enlisted I was just responsible for taking care of myself. Yes you move up and become a squad leader. A lieutenant is in charge of a platoon right off thebat with no experience. It is a brutal existence right off the bat. Me and my platoon recognized this and always loved our lieutenants and did all we could for them. They were all good men. AIRBORNE!!!
My father was a CW in the Navy. I wish I'd had the chance to go that route. He said it was nearly the perfect job, he could get things done and rarely had to suffer too much oversight and always had the respect of the senior O's.
I would say rank has its privilege's, big time. Not on the work end as discussed here, but on the accountability and discipline end. A Lt, Maj, etc will be disciplined entirely differently, if at all, than even senior NCO's. Not universally true, but happens more often than not. Same differences go for members of standard units vs special units. Though all these jobs have their own suck and I think its great that it is mentioned, and that it depends on what kind of person you are. That is absolutely true. 22 years senior NCO.
Started out as enlisted while I work on a degree online so I can Commission through OCS. I wanted my enlistment time before commissioning to have a broader horizon and know the Army before having to be a leader of men
Spot on. I’ll add this, the awesome responsibility of UCMJ as a commander. It is never easy, especially when you’re dealing with a decent Soldier. Special Forces are an awesome group of Americans that all want to be there, highly motivated, outside types. I am not one of those, but I have the same inclinations despite being in a vastly different culture based on my branch. It is, what you make it. I enjoyed being enlisted, and definitely love being an officer. I’ve avoided staff until Major, and definitely being a Battalion XO and Ops while satisfying in many ways, it does take a toll. My next job, hopefully is fun, on joint staff, embassy, working in a very strategically important part of world…but every assignment is what you make of it, every duty station, every unit.
We teach Security, Elite Performance & Fitness / Military Preparation. Learn more about our Courses, eBooks and Fitness Programs at lifeisaspecialoperation.com/ Thanks for Watching.
Senior Officer: Plans what has to be done.
Junior Officer: Figures out how to get it done.
Enlisted: Is the person that actually does it.
As a fireman, this is facts. We get shit done.
Aren't lieutenants also on the ground?
Officers can be on ground to.
@@evanderpierznik Yes and Captains
@@evanderpierznik Yea because they need some type of field officer there with them but that's just to get the experience.
I entered the Army as a draftee in 1969 and rose to the rank of Sgt, E5) and went to Infantry OCS. As an NCO I liked the closeness with the enlisted men and as a company grade officer I was able to do the same. Once I became a Major (Field grade) I lost that closeness. It is really illustrated in "Band of Brothers" when Dick Winters has to leave Easy Company and go to Battalion Staff. I know that feeling and always had a special spot in my heart for the NCOs of the company I grew up in. That was the 82d Abn, A, C, HQ companies 4/68 Armor, later the 3/325 Infantry and Division Staff. As a Lieutenant Colonel, the fun was over and I started seeing the politics. As a Colonel, I knew I had to leave, as I could not play the politics and I was in close contact to career politicians and diplomats. Upon 30 years I retired. I look back on being a buck sergeant as the best days of my military career.
in 1986 while stationed in Sicily with the US Air Force, right at the height of the Cold War, i made rank was promoted to E5 SSgt. it was at a major turning point because of being short and having to make a decision... re-enlist or get out of the war and go back to working for the family business to fill a spot because of my grandfather retiring.
in the US Air Force, we had the Ground Launched Cruise Missile program and these were deployed across five countries throughout Europe. it's been almost 40 years now but i think we had six flights (platoons?) and my Officers kept asking me to go to sign up for OTS (Officer Training School). my justification for not enrolling in OTS was the fact i would not be effective because i know i WOULD NOT let Command endanger the safety of MY Troops. years earlier, one of my Flight Chiefs at Nellis AFB would stand in front of the flight at Guardmount prior to shift and say, "NOBODY fucks you but ME. i don't care if you're wrong; if they don't go through the Proper Chain of Command, THEY are Wrong. i will deal with you later." i always respected that philosophy of dedication and protection of the troops under your Supervision.
eventually, i chose my biological family over my military family because of the politics of the time. it has been a decision i have regretted ever since.
You were probably the most useful as an E-4 too. Not to denigrate you, rather to chastise the political nature of the Field Grade and Flag ranks.
@@psychopompous3207 Well I did receive the Legion of Merit for my 30 years of service, a little more than answering pay call!
@@ralphgreenjr.2466 Lol, I hear ya. Damn Full Birds and their LOMs... The best I can do is a DMSM. Respect for staying in for 3 decades.
@@psychopompous3207 Thank you it was tough at times coming up through the ranks, as you are a bit of an outsider to the Academy grads. I got assignments others did not want. That DMSM, I bet anything you deserved it!
I was a scout for 7 years. I was really good at it so I promoted quickly and made E5 in 2 years. I was a terrible NCO because I couldn't separate myself from my guys and it ended up getting me demoted to E4 because one of them got arrested while I was out partying with them. At first I was super disappointed but instead of running the range, I got to shoot. Instead of training, I got to do the stuff and it made me realize not everyone is supposed to lead, and that young soldier probably needs a good mentor from that seasoned E4 just as much as a good team leader or commander. Maybe more.
Cool story champ
E6 here, you made the best of a bad situation. everyone can lead, it's just a matter of when they truly accept that role
Good take. I always disliked how the Army forces people to promote to failure. By this I mean that, due to Retention Control Points (RCP), you're pretty much forced to keep seeking the 'next level' even if you're not suited for this. This is especially true of the E4-E5 and E6-E7 jumps. There are a lot of good soldiers that aren't good NCO's and there shouldn't be anything wrong with that. Similarly, there are a lot of good SSG's that don't make good SFC's (or whatever the rank is in your branch). As a SSG, I really hated RCP because it forced me to promote Soldiers who I knew would be bad NCO's, but who were good Soldiers and didn't deserve to get kicked out of the Army for not promoting. The Army should give units a certain number of billets for long-serving enlisted personnel and junior/Staff NCO's that are good in their positions but just not cut out for the next level.
@@aesirgaming1014 oh they didn't force me, I did it willingly. I got out 3 years later as an E5 as well so I just had some growing up to do.
@@simunator not everyone should lead
As a junior enlisted I remember looking at the officers thinking how nice it must be. Then I got promoted to an nco and suddenly all those added responsibilities really showed how stressful leadership positions are and that the grass isn’t always greener.
it's just a job like everything else. once you get used to it, leadership becomes 2nd nature
@@simunator Lol...no...it doesn't. Only if you care enough to have developed your leadership ability.
@@psychopompous3207 you only think that because you haven't been exposed to enough of it. you'll get there eventually, hopefully.
@@simunator E8 here. I have more then had my fill.
I love Enlisted, best people I've ever met. I am out now but thinking about coming back in, but I won't go back as Enlisted, I want to go Officer, I've seen the toxicity of senior Enlisted and I want to make a change, but I can't. Enlisted are there only to advise officers, they cannot, make a change. Sarnt Maj said stay in if you want to change things, and he's right and wrong. Stay in and go Officer if you want to change things. Enlisted is not the way to do it
Both ranks have their challenges. As a former Senior NCO I can attest to this. I met only a few officers I would follow to the death. I have only met one enlisted person in that same aspect. One officer was a 2000 Academy Grad. Right out of the shoot he was a leader. He made excellent decisions, was always there for his men and women, and had unbelievable Character. He is retiring in 24. I retired in 12. I will be attendence to give him a final salute.
I found real stress being an NCO and having young lives in my hands. It actually made me appreciate officers all the more as that burden of command is real, and stressful. All phases and chapters of a soldier's life are a challenge . Physically, being lower enlisted is the hardest, it will put miles on your body that you will only realize when you hit 40. The bonding I felt as lower enlisted cant really be replaced by anything at all .
not from Usa but i can sense most of the emotions of soldiers across globe are more or less same. Make ur nation Proud
The pay difference between Officers and Enlisted should make that soul crushing admin work feel ok. I was at the Pentagon and these 04s were pissed having to write an retirement award . I told them I’ll gladly do your award’s for a month pay difference as an e6 . They didn’t say much afterwards. Ha
😅
Worked in the Army medical clinic there and I had 0-5's and 0-6's, I was an E-4, constantly ask how I was able to live in that area. I always told them I lived within my means. Best job I ever had in the Army. Many of them actually lived in W.V., slept in their offices during the week and commuted home by train for the weekends. This was back in 87'.
I'm surprised they didn't delegate it to you anyway!
Being a officer is like being the book smart guy while being enlisted is more of the street smarts guy
NCOs may be street smart but most e1s-e3s are just kids outta high school.
I would not say Officers are smart.The majority (general population) of officers have liberal arts or social sciences degrees. They majored in degrees that didn’t lead to any skills. They couldn’t cut it in the STEM or Healthcare majors. There are some officers who have a STEM or Healthcare major, but that is not the general population. Most Officers major in Criminal Justice, Sociology, History, Business, Administration, Health and Fitness (not a authentic STEM or Healthcare), English and Philosophy.
Officer that come in with a degree think they are special because they have a resemblance of authority. But they can’t do much on the civilian side when they get out. There no opportunity except another government job, or if they majored in something that taught them an actual skill.
Not all officers are smart. In fact, the most I've met are no where as smart as enlisted. They just have a degree (shows commitment) and became shitty officers.
@@choncha23 going to go out on a limb and say you never served because this is objectively nonsense. You will find a significant number of officers with liberal arts degrees but in a job that is ever-changing, requires a high level of literary proficiency, and the ability to effectively problem-solve and think outside the box when it comes to the micro- and macro planning processes, that type of education is not lost. The combination of STEM and classically educated officers is necessary for the success of the corps. As for job opportunities, most officers can shoot straight into a well-paying middle management gig in the corporate or government world. Same concepts, new vernacular.
Just like on the enlisted side, you’ll have your fair share of high performers, knuckle draggers, and everything in between. Officers are just higher vis so you notice the subpar performers more easily.
Source: prior NCO, current officer.
@@paytonmogford784 I am sorry you break it to you, but I did serve --- US Army. I can tell you served because you remark on the same talking points every other career NCO or Officer spews. In your case, you happen to be both. lol.
Jobs in the military are not ever-changing. Stop lying to yourself, please. A few MOS' translate very well to civilian life: IT, Healthcare, MP, Special Operators (private contractors), and pilots. I am going to define "transition well" for you. A MOS where the individual ETS'd yesterday and gets hired tomorrow, with a salary of 90k plus. This has to be done in the private sector, not another Government job.
I will address your terribly constructed run sentence--- sentence number two. I will assume you have not left the military in a very long time. What you just stated is complete robot talk. It works well when looking good in front of the higher-ranking officers or the hungover junior enlisted. Nothing you said works in the civilian sector, right now. It might have landed you a job 20 to 40 years ago. Today, employers are looking for certifications, degrees, and years of experience. In that particular order. Unless you are a 35F. 35F's are the special unicorns. These motherfuckers can get a lot of fucking money and can jump to management rapidly.
Oh lord... You have it completely wrong. Most Officers cannot shoot straight to mid-management jobs. The higher ranking (O-7 and above) can get mid-management jobs with a defense contractor. You are drinking the kool-aid. Officers transition well to another government job, but you do not start in management. It takes a couple years. The only thing the Military prepares you for is another government job. I know a ton of guys who are doing great who are pensioned, retired from the military, and working to be pension retired from their government job. They also receive a nice disability check from the VA. It's a good gig to have 150k in pensions/VA checks at 70.
But I will say this: most of the guys I know who are like this are alone because they have always placed the job first and family last. Sure, they have a 2023 Corvette or EV Hummer. Most of these guys are at the VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars). But for the most part, they seem happy. I would be happy too.
Source: ETS'd from the Army in 2021 as Combat Veteran E4 King Shammer. But now, I am a Registered Nursing Student who studies at the VFW for free coffee and cheap beer.
I wish I'd had this advice (and your other excellent advice) in 1986 when I joined the Army. I went infantry and airborne and was assigned with 2/504, 82 ABN, saw combat in Panama and then left after my four years for college. While in university I expected that I'd graduate and then go back in through the OCS route. My best experience was serving 18 months as my company commander's RTO on our battalion net as it really gave me an excellent view of my little operational world and a very good relationship with an officer who I learned to greatly respect. My CO tried to get me to go to West Point prep, but I was too immature at the time to grasp the opportunity. While in university I became interested in civilian law enforcement and gravitated toward that career path. What really stopped me from going back to the Army was the soul crushing busy work and all of the hurry up and wait that I experienced while I was enlisted. Again, a broader view and more maturity would have helped (as well as your great advice had it been available), but in the end I picked police work and was hired after graduation. I worked my way through the ranks and recently retired, but I've always regretted that I did not resume my military life as an officer. The responsibility and focus on producing results in a combat arms or SOF life simply can't be found elsewhere. You're doing a wonderful job helping young people and I wish you'd been around dispensing this advice about 35 years ago!
Retired LE here as well...I wish I had this info when I was in college.
Spent half of my career as an enlisted infantry (2 combat deployments) and the other half as an Engineer Officer. The officer role was way more stressful and mentally draining. Engineering Officers get lots of stressful field work. While others sleep, the officer is planning and fixing all the sh&t happening the during the operations. Officer schools are impressively hard and passing ratio sometimes very low. Obviously, benefits are way better for the officer (especially retirement pay).
Dude, your breakdowns are so legit. Such a good resource for young or future Soldiers to make informed decisions and draw inspiration. Personally, looking back on my short career which had 1 GWOT deployment as a Junior 11A... I think the best jobs are deployed O1/2 and E5/6. If you are a young person, watch every single one of these videos (work out) and study history. You will be so much ahead of peers.... I also left, mainly because time on BN staff was soul crushing after Scout PL. I didn't have the intestinal fortitude to work for a week, only to have the old man (BNCO) go 100% the opposite direction of my proposed plan.
Spent my career as an enlisted MP primarily in the reserves, but came from a family of almost all officers. Just before I ETS’s two of my cousins came by to visit both were at the Academy, one actually got In trouble her senior year and spent 2 years enlisted including a deployment to Iraq, the other had caught and now passed his older sister & was at my installation for OBC. The older sister was was already on orders back to West Point to complete her last semester.
They asked me for advice. Take care of your troops but don’t neglect your mission. Remember that as an O-1 you’re essentially no different than a private, just better educated and older, and being in the Reserves even that’s not even always the case. As such listening to the PSG for the first year until they got their feet wet. The older sister has time as a troop so she will understand things that her brother (brothers actually because her other two younger brothers were still at the Academy) will never get, and predicted that she would be the best officer out of them family. Turns out I was right, she had more time in service and ranked higher than the other 3.
Officers have two benefits. Pay and post career opportunity. Maybe not as a junior grade officer, but in Canada when you progress to the rank of Major, you will have a variety of cushy jobs available to you in the public service or mid tier government positions. As well as the excellent pay as you gain experience.
As an extra bonus it is quite a respected position in society, if this matters to you. An enlisted soldier may be shat on by their relatives/peers, but officers don’t usually get that unless it’s work-related.
In America, respect is given to anyone who served regardless of their rank or MOS. There are those who hate the military in general and will disrespect anyone who served
It took me 2 years to make Sgt in the army infantry. I had some great platoon leaders in my time, one's that wanted their NCO's advice during tactics but had some that thought they knew everything and failed at missions and blamed the NCO's. We were on the 50 cal firing range and this lieutenant of ours wouldn't listen to the NCO's running the range, he pulled himself out of the turret without clearing his 50 cal like he was told and hit the trigger. It fired a round into the back of a 113 in front of us and took off the arm of one soldier and killed another. Needless to say he lost rank and was kicked out of the army. Some officer's really care about their men yet some just believe they are God's gift. They should be taught to listen to NCO's that have been there many years longer than them.
Reminds me when I was a Cadet, and I was spending the summer at Sector San Francisco. While I was there, I got the chance to do some training on a 47' MLB. For those who don't know that is the big Motor Lifeboat you see training in the surf in pairs. The Sector Commander took the opportunity to ride along and while talking to him he was hoping to hit some big waves and get soaked. Both boats took some waves over the bow, and everyone was soaked. I have never seen an O6 so happy in my life.
😅
Awesome video. No nonsense, no bias break down. Wouldn't expect anything less from you sir. o7
I just wanna take time to give our amazing veterans the biggest thank u I can for ur service no words can express my appreciation for every single one of u guys god bless 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Retired officer who was previous enlisted - I would also add that the ASSUMPTION that being an officer is harder comes from the fact that fewer people are capable to be an officer. This is not actually because it's harder but because it's a rarer skill set. Similar but nor the same.
Total. Bullshit. 99% of all enlisted troops are absolutely capable of getting a commission. I worked for a Major who had a 4-year degree in music. He played the trombone. He was THE most incompetent sack of sh!t I ever ran across. Major Donald R. Nicklin. He's still out there.
It's not hard
It was briefly mentioned but the Warrant Officer is kind of a hybrid. Where rank is normally gained by sacrificing "doing stuff" for "admin stuff" it's different from WC. They are technical experts. Their advancement is more based on their subject expertise, not their people managing skills. They are keepers of knowledge so they are officers, not, they are officers so let them have knowledge. He's the guy or girl nobody f's with because in the end we all rely on the technical experts. Like em or hate em.
Issue is Warrant Officers don't exist, they're a myth. Ever seen one in real life? Exactly you haven't, and if you have it was an illusion your brain made up to justify the rank system. (sarcasm)
I have been following this channel since I was a cadet. Now I am a 2nd LT going into Signal BOLC. His fitness content, plus all of the other good stuff here is such a good resource for a butter bar like me.
Also - I felt like you're a preacher and I need to give you an amen when you said that staff work is soul crushing.
Sir....... I'm a retired Marine Corps MSGT. And specifically joined to fight waaaaaay back when we were still using the M16A1's. In my humble opinion sir, you left out one VERY CRITICAL point worth considering. Promote-ablilty. I've seen dozens of fine officers NOT get augmented (by some Admiral/General) and forced out of the service (Navy/Marine Corps Specific) . As an enlisted man, I knew I'd never have that problem. A very good high school friend of mine, went to and graduated from the Air Force Academy, he became an F-16 pilot, and selected into the astronaut program,.... He couldn't get promoted to Major, and was shown the door out of the United States Air Force. The competition is especially keen to stay in uniform.
Total respect for USA and spec ops. I guess the older you get in the military, the more forgiving and thoughtfulness you have for all your brethren. The mentorship for young officers by NCO’s can’t be understated. Being an idiot officer allowed me to learn about our trade. That conversation remained solid through out my 26 years. My being a spoiled AF pilot allowed me to reach out to the best in the enlisted ranks and was never disappointed. Your composition calculation time isn’t far off. As a flight safety officer, I would show up at midnight, 2am and really see what’s happening. That’s how I learned about these amazing crew chiefs, expediters, specialists and others in -20F in ND.
I was a 1LT (LTA) from the Singapore Armed Forces, originally trained for Artillery gunnery but ended up being posted to the admin side of a radar battalion (didn't get to do what I trained for). For someone like me, admin work took up 90% of my life. Alot of the time, being a junior officer is like being the mediator between the higher ups and the subordinates. Dealing with the expectations of senior officers and trying to relate to my subordinates was pretty challenging especially since most of us are conscripts and did not choose to serve therefore lacked interest.
Fellow officer of the SAF!
Was a mortar dect commd back during NS. While my Mortar PC was busy running around and planning 80% of the time for missions and coordinating with the FO boys on the ground, my PS ran most of the ground work show. Often I find myself finding my PS for guidance and instructions before relaying it to my boys because my PC is busy "fighting fire" with the higher ups. Wouldnt want to add more work to him. So whatever you just shared about being the mediator.. Im sure my PC would relate a lot to it. Being a 3SG myself... It ain't that bad. Not complaining though. :)
In your last phrase, its opposite here in the Philippines. Majority of people somehow are military enthusiasts but could not get through volunteer service because of lack of quota.Armed Forces is low budget, I can only envy your military hardware.
This isn't to say that I regret my time in the SAF. I loved being a PS and am still close to my company command team till this day. I just wish that I had spent less time focused on the job and spent more time with my men. I really wanted to sign on but the understanding of the politics got to me. I understood that being on the ground (even as a spec), ends after your PS tour. You spend the rest of your time in staff tours until you hit CSM then RSM. It ends up the same as any other desk job and I couldn't take that. I love the SAF and I love Singapore, I just believed that I learned what I could from the army and it was time for me to move on. I wish the best to the regulars that I know, it's just not the life for me.
@@gladen4640 sup fam
Went green to gold. The lessons you learn as an enlisted man absolutely helps you become a better leader as an officer. As an enlisted you see so much crap so it helps you learn from bad and good leaders.
I serve in the Army Cadets and I have the rank of a MWO (Master Warrant Officer, a high rank for us). I WAS a WO (Warrant Officer) and that's when I realized "damn, I got responsibilities now, I need to step my game up". I started whipping myself into physical shape and a learning how to be a leading role model (They also train you this when you're a Sergeant). Once promoted to MWO, I understood that my officers were recognizing my improvements. Its been about 3 months being the rank of MWO, and its for sure a tough role. With the amount of leading, and looking after the other junior cadets, it really puts in perspective how important you are when you have a high rank. Great video!
I truly enjoy listening to your videos. I personally served in the regular army from 14 Feb 2011 through 14 Aug 2014 as a 91M. Listening to your videos as I am preparing for my day does several things for me. It reminds me of what I've been through during my time in service, and that I am capable of so much more as a civilian. It reminds me that I do have the mental and testicular fortitude to achieve what is necessary to be successful based on my view of it. Thank you so much💯
Somebody did an article "100 Worst Jobs in America" every year. Military officer consistently ranked #2 and enlisted ranked #1. Yeah, that's about right. Officers have it a little less worse than enlisted, but civilians have it much better than both.
A lot of former enlisted like to complain about officers. A lot. Especially now that officer pay is bad while enlisted pay is ridiculously horse s__t low. I say there are plenty of other targets.
Not true...there are many jobs far worse. I was both enlisted and officer. How is officer pay that bad?
What? I was an officer for ten years and loved it. Best "job" I've ever had, and all my NCO friends agree. (Serving isn't a job, it's a calling). Whoever "did" that article didn't know what they were talking about, and neither does anyone who'd believe such a thing.
@@honestreviewer3283 Really? What's about the military to like? The dumb paperwork? The nonsensical rules? The constant lectures about how you're the wrong sex/race/religion? The part where you don't do any actual fighting, run away from the terrorists, and call a drone strike? The part where we abandon the country we were supposedly trying to build up to the Taliban?
Every day, I get up, and I go to work building electric cars. Not because I believe it'll help the planet, but because they're the only people out of thousands willing to hire me after the military got done using me. And because Barack Hussein Obama thought it would be a better use for my life than what I wanted to do with it. So much for freedom.
Besides, even if environmentalism wasn't bullcrap, why would I care if the Earth burns? I won't have any descendants. It'll be the children of people who hate me who inherit the Earth.
Screw that "calling" bullcrap. I heard it once and it led me the wrong way.
And screw that Jewish God of yours that sends people on that path. It seems all he cares about is his tribe. Just like everyone else.
Well, I can tell you weren't in the military, or, if you were, you were there because you couldn't think of anything else to do and didn't take advantage of the many opportunities and career paths it offers. I was an officer for 10 years and was earning $100K at the time I resigned, and as a civilian I continue to get $100K+ jobs. Like so many on the internet, you don't know what you're talking about, and yet want to argue with people who do.
@@honestreviewer3283 Wow. You got the opportunities you asked for? Must be nice being a ring-knocker from a military family.
You’re spot on about the life (no life) as a staff officer. I started as an E-1 and retired as an O-5 and each step up the ladder had new professionals and personal challenges. Two tours on the DA staff almost killed my marriage, my wife could deal with deployments but having no life stateside was too much. The best thing I did was retire before I went on my third DA staff job.
I served as a submarine officer.
We had at least a dozen enlisted submariners later get their commission.
NONE of them went onto to be a sub JO.
I'll let you decide why.
I’m grateful for the more specific description you gave
Whenever I hear people talk about Officer Vs. Enlisted, I’m thankful for the info, but it’s usually kind of vague or goes over my head.
Rock in 🤘
Richard Winters from Band of Brothers always stands out to me as an ideal combat officer. While they don't mention it much in the miniseries, the book mentions that he was a "see things for himself" kind of guy, always scouting ahead of his men to assess the situation before returning and laying out a plan. He was also a natural scholar, and studied things down to the fine details, which is why he was especially a force to be reckoned with when it came to calling artillery strikes.
Competence is the key, then improvement and eventually excellence.
Learning -> Competence -> Excellence -> Perfection, with persistence and determination as the driving force.
If you’re mature and have some life experience; officer is the way to go. These traits can be disseminated to those that follow your lead.
Enlisted could be seen as ‘the school of hard knocks’ dependant on your service, and you’ll get out what you put in.
@Sayin wat 0-2 at my unit has an arts degree and he’s a great leader.
Benning OCS CLS 02-03. Was a SSG in the 75th RR before going to the dark side. Video is spot on. My weapon as a ABN Rifle PL was my Radios. NCOs execute the plan.
One element to add is discipline. As an enlisted, you can screw up and recover really well, especially early in your career. As an officer? Your career has to be near-perfect at all times. No lateness, no DUIs (driving while drunk).. near perfect. You don't see too many officers with Article 15s. They rather push them out.
That depends on wartime or peace time operations. If you lose your security clearance recovering isn’t easy and at a certain point your career is over no matter what rank you are.
Thankfully for me, all my NCO's and Officers are chill guys. I respect them a lot.
The first month of me joining, i kept wishing i was an officer so i can do less work. But now i'm 2 years in, I swear the officers do way more work than we do. Huge respect.
The worst part i realized about being an officer, is you bring your work home. cause more often than not. When i get called to come to the base, He's already there.
I was enlisted, then officer for about 10 years each.
Generally each has it's benefits and drawbacks, just as some jobs and assignments are harder and other are easier.
Yeah, easy for a specialist to get out of doing work than a lieutenant.
Watching this from my brigade, I am part of the finnish marines, and im getting my first promotion tomorrow which will make me an ”undersergeant”, its going to be the first promotion I recive which will give me authority over others, I’m super excited, from this video it seems like your officers and nco’s are what we call officers and ”underofficers”, were the usual ranks of the officers are, Lieutenants, captain Lieutenants, commodores and when you finnish the reserve officers school, you immideatly become a 2nd Lieutenant. This is compared to our underofficers which consist of undersergeants, sergeants, oversergeants, boatsmen, and the coolest and one of the most rare ranks in finland; ”Military Masters”
Anyways, I thought It was a really interesting video!
UPDATE: I got a notice that I’ve gotten chosen for the special forces of our brigade!! Hellll yeaaaaaaaa
I was both. Made it up to SFC before going to OCS.
The admin/doing percentages are the same for many support jobs too as long as you are in an active FORSCOM BCT.
Great video, I like the way you broke it down, but I have a few comments..
As an Armor PL, I spend most of my time doing admin work. I would love to train 75% of the time, but that just isn't the case. I'm sure for high-speed units like the 75th this may be the case for junior officers, but for most of the 'regular army' we get bogged down in the paperwork, admin and personnel actions.
As a fellow Armor officer I can confirm!
You’re spot on. As an enlisted Soldier I progressed through the NCO rank. It’s absolutely correct that the privilege of rank is more responsibility and longer hours. Sure there are other privileges that come with rank but it’s not as everyone thinks. I was not in a combat arms MOS, so I was pampered compared to what many endure but you’re analysis is a good one.
I've been out of the U.S. Army for 40 years (enlisted) and I just learned how hard it is to be an officer. Great information.
Great break down. I think this would be great to share with anyone considering military service.
100%. As an officer not only did I have to be an effective soldier, I also had to plan the training and logistics, make sure my unit was effective and soldiers were taken care of (my snr nco's did a fantastic job doing the last 2). Last to eat, last to sleep. After 2 years of fun in the field the rest of your career is soul-sucking admin. If I had it to do again, I'd enlist
Excellent! My father was still serving as a CSM when I was commissioned in 1969. I know his experience. During Vietnam it was one year as 2LT, one 1LT and the Captain after 2 years of total service! I planned a career, but after a really bad commander and getting stuck on staff I changed my mind. Reserves and Guard more fun. Always thought I would have made a better NCO. You are right on target.
No. NO ONE makes O-3 in two years. Outright lie. You can't even get the ranks right. 2Lt, and ILt.
@@dennissvitak148 During Vietnam yes! I have the orders to prove it!
@@jeb6704 I would buy your story as true. I have talked to many that in the Vietnam era got promoted fast. Now, without a war going on, it will take you probably 5-years to make 03. This has always been the case with the American army between peacetime and wartime. During wartime, the people in senior leadership positions who can't handle their jobs get dismissed and there suddenly becomes a lot more advancement up.
@@dennissvitak148 mannn I’ll throw u in the gulag and take YOUR rank capping ass😂
out of all my time as an enlisted member of USMC (8 yrs) and US Army (22 yrs), my time as a SSG was the best. Becoming a SFC tied me into BN more, and started me on the path you mention of more admin time. But even as a squad leader, I recognized my job was to be the umbrella to protect my men. And it only got better as a 1SG, where I could affect training, schools, etc... and culminated as a CSM, where I could make sure the enlisted were taken care of, and foster the growth and mentor the junior officers and commanders in the BN.
As a NCO I didn’t do any staff time I did very little of it!!!!
As a sailor Senior NCO (E8) you are spot on. 2 years of staff hated it, but did many TAD trips. No cubicle time for me.
The military CANNOT function without the NCO Corp... period.
That's why russia is struggling 😊
I love your honesty. “The privilege is more work”
I was an Infantry officer in the mid-1970s. The Army was in a bad way, and instead of my initial plan of 30 years, I resigned after 4-1/2 years. I was too blind to go SF, and I was hurt at Ranger School. I was a platoon leader in Korea in the 2nd ID and, after my injury, ended up as a HQ Detachment Commander in Germany. I sent a guy to SF while I was a commander, and he earned his Green Beret and also went on to Delta Force. I wrote him a letter while he was at the Q Course at Bragg, and I meant then and I mean now that, had I been enlisted, I probably would still be in the Army. Officer corps politics and assignments were exactly as you described - soul crushing. Thanks for a great discussion of the difference.
Thanks for this video, it is really helpful for people like me. I have been very conflicted about enlisted vs officer routes, but this video helped cement the goal of becoming an officer into me more. It’s not that I want to do desk work, God no, but when you say that having a bad leader makes the jobs if the enlisted harder… I want to become a good leader so that I can better serve those enlisted, so I need to become an officer.
Maybe it’s less fun, maybe I’ll have to do a bunch of nerd stuff that I’ll hate, but that’s why it’s a service and not just a dream job I guess.
Currently a freshman in AROTC, I’m applying for West Point and Annapolis too, with the goal of being a combat arms officer, ideally in SOF. This channel is hands down my best resource in navigating life right now, I cannot thank you enough!
If Westpoint doesn’t work out I subject doing rotc in college or commission with your home state in the guard and then transition to what you want afterwards because you can commission with 90 credits with your state or OCS after completion of your bachelors
Served 21 years AD, 1972-1994 Ranks: E-1, E-2, E-3, E-4, E-5, E-6, then: WOC, WO-1 CW-2, CW-3, then: O-2, O-3(P) All was medical, so besides the difference in line units vs. medical department assignments, it is easiest being a Warrant Officer. Why???? Most know enough to leave you alone to do your specialized work.
Regardless of if Officers are more experienced or not, being a leader in a war zone is some real tough shit. You need to be someone special to do it right. So there may be shit talk about them sometimes, but at the end of the day, if you get back to base safely, they did their job.
First of all - thank you for your service to our country. I have known a few who went for Special Forces. They were not necessarily the best athletes - they were guys who kept to themselves and did not brag about what they wanted. I thought of joining the military - the hardest I ever worked was in High School football in "HELL WEEK" - Summer full dress practice in 90+ heat. I look back fondly, but figure that is what training would be full time in the military in SF. I did get a college degree, and considered OCS - but know now it would have been very difficult. So alas I entered the working world, and sit thanking people like you to keep us safe. Father was OCS Coast Guard, but decided to "HAVE FUN" at college...Thank you for guiding the few would would choose this life.
This man speaks 100 percent truth.... I would like to add one thing....they are both work hard but in different ways..... do not ever think the military isnt work its all work and little bit of play....... I would choose to be enlisted every time. Nothing like working hard with soldiers and seeing that oneness with them when we finish a mission and know it was only thru our hard work and sweat we made it there.
I joined the reserves while I was in college so I could become an officer. But once I saw how little fun the officers had compared to the enlisted, I decided I’m just staying enlisted.
I definitely think being the boss, especially relating to combat arms? Would be the more challenging positions to strive for. Platoon leaders, XO's and unit commanders still have to go out with their subordinates and embrace the suck. Those that don't, generally don't last in those positions.
I thought I wanted to be a cool guy shooting guns, but 2 years in a combat arms MOS has made me realize that that admin life looking real good. Before you sign that 11b contract (or other combat arms), realize you’re not watching a movie, reading a book, or playing a video game, you’ll actually physically be out there in the field doing that hard shit like staying up all night or working all day. Genuinely imagine you’re outside, in the cold, running off of small amount of sleep all while you’re being ordered around by your higher ups for weeks. If it still sounds worth it after thinking about it, then that’s what you’re meant to do in the military. Go be the cool guy kicking down doors, just know what you’re really getting into. Also, go in good shape with a good attitude.
For various reasons, (6 year enlistee, got E-3 in basic training), a below the zone promotion to E-4 (at 18 months), and making SSgt (E-5) first time I tested, I sewed on SSgt as a 20-year old. Didn't do me any favors, when I was the youngest in my unit, AND the unit supervisor. I failed hard...but I learned, and got better. Whether your career is easy or hard depends 100% on the ability of the individual to, in the words of someone smarter than me, "adapt and overcome." My last job, as a civilian, I ran a facility that had 240 workers..and I had a retired full colonel work for me. He hated it, and quit, when he discovered I was a retired E-8. He was too arrogant to allow me to direct his actions. Heh heh.
I think i’m gonna stay enlisted. I hate doing desk work
I'm still debating whether to join my national Marine Corps (the Netherlands) as a officer or to enlist after I finish my bachelor degree. Personally I like the work of the enlisted marine more, but because of my degree and the huge difference in pay/career opportunities of an officer, I still find it a difficult choice.
Officer I guarantee there is a chance you are choosing between a triple salary
officer gives you more opportunities after service too
Im in the US navy a chief which is an E-7 who has on average 15 years in navy gets paid the same as a O-1 ensign who joined and went to the academy vs an E-1 the salary is 700 every 2 weeks which is on par with getting paid 2$ a hour
I enlisted in the USMC with a bachelor’s degree. I only stayed my four years, but I’m positive if I would have stayed in and become an officer, I would have been a better officer for doing so.
Also it Depends what type of degree you’re doing. If it’s something related to science such as computer science, biology or engineering or something relate between those two you could get career chances and opportunities once you’re in by taking special training.
Phenomenal job and presentation. Was both US Enlisted then majority of my career years as an Officer. 100% accurate.
My son goes to meps tomorrow and your videos have taught us a lot about how to approach his career decision. Thank you!
I graduated from a military high school and studied here from the age of 14 to 18. After school, I joined the unit as a sergeant OR3 at the age of 18. I ended up in the army as a warrant officer OR7 at the age of 29. From the beginning, I had subordinates, as an engineer of an anti-aircraft missile battery, as a missile preparation specialist, as a commander of a missile complex. Thanks to the school, I never found it difficult to lead people, to teach them, to command them. one has to know when to be tough, when to be gentle, when to give advice, when to talk to the soldier about problems. He must monitor the relationships in the unit, recognize the weaker personalities and the strong ones in the unit. It's a nice job
Interesting video -- you nailed it -- rank = more work. You can delegate authority, but NEVER responsibility.
The timing of this video is perfect 👌 because I'm officially in the force and the talk of transition from enlistment to an officer has quite common soo I wanted even more info much as possible before making such choice. So far its all depends on the individual.
I'd like to offer that for many non-combat arms those proportions of time being "operational" (most involved with the operators you support) vs "rear echelon" (more detached work often because it's strategic/long looking) works out about the same as your examples. So this is applicable for the POGs and nonners as well.
This is a very good overview and young people should look at this for an insight into going into the army or marines. And I enlisted, maxed the tests, was commissioned, and retired as a colonel. I was on the DMZ in Korea, in the Mekong Delta in Vietnam, and commanded an artillery battalion in Germany. In basic training I was put on KP, and they forgot me, and I was there for 24 hours. They gave me the day off and no more KP, and I knew that I could do anything. It is a very fluid environment, and flexibility is very important. When they ask you if you could do something, it is because they have no one else to ask. So do that thing. Whatever it is. I never worried about efficiency reports because I was doing what needed to be done, and the rest falls into place.
Was a SPC4 gunbunny when I arrived at Benning's school for 90 day wondeerkids. The physical misery of the field fell on everyone equally. My E-4 time was much more fun than my trip from O-1 to 3. Never doubted the men subordinate to me were my equals, and as long as we did our job we were good to go.
Never forgot or doubted the reason we salute after the card we were issued at the reception station that stated that the salute was an exchange of respect between equals. Was still a butter bar when my BN commander enlightened me of the difference between subordination and superiority.
One assignment as a SNCO, every year I would get a new 2nd Lt for about 6 months until his flight school would start. His primary duty has to learn how to "military" from SNCOs. Mentoring young O's was very rewarding.
I’ve always wanted to serve in the military ever since I was young I remember playing military growing up with sticks as guns and pinecones as grenades as I grew older I was more and more interested in the military I really wanted to join the Air Force security forces but I have high functioning autism and a learning disability and when I was 13 or 14 I went through brain surgery because I had a rare muscle disease called dystonia after I had the surgery it took my spasms away and then high school came I was to hyped for my freshman year to talk to recruiters and when I got there and I told them that I’m on certain medications I have a disability as well as brain surgery they turned me down I was extremely crushed and depressed and now I’ve conquered my mental health and I’m a senior member in civil air patrol as a officer it definitely fills the void of wanting to serve.
This is gonna be more of a rant to blow off some steam, but I am an EMN2 (E5 nuclear electrician) in the submarine Navy. From this experience, I can say officers on Subs are treated much better. They have their own beds, don't have to do 8 hours of maintenance after 8 hours of watch, and they get bah, which we dont, despite nuclear enlisted being some of the smartest, most qualified people in the fleet and having gone through the most difficult academic training in the entire military.
You also deal with the typical enlisted discipline bs, despite it not meshing well with the industrial environment of running nuclear reactors. You also still have to respect the brainlet chiefs in the cone even though you come to the boat with more quals and knowledge of systems than they do. It's a shitty dynamic, and nukes are the hardest workers in the blue water fleet. (Not talking Specwar, seabees, etc)
During peace days:
Officer life easier --> admin work, drinking tea, ordering people to do stuff (If you know how to delegate, no one can challenge your rank).
During wartime or when stuff goes wrong:
Corporal is eaiser --> Just follow the order, when in danger, try to survive at all cost. You ain't responsible for the deaths of a 100 unless is directly your fault like you sleep while on sentry duty and enemy attacked.
Usually during a mission, if mission goes haywire, your platoon commander will be at fault.
For officer --> whether the battle is in chaos, it is your responsiblity to turn the tide around. Sure enough you can pintpoint your soldiers fault for not following etc but at the end of the day, the public looks at you. And if you lose a 100 soliders, you better not return home alive. The pressure sure is there.
Best way I can summarize the difference between officer stress and NCO stress (assuming both are competent):
Officer stress front end (Planning)
NCO stress mid end (Execution)
Both stress rear end (Review and Refinement)
Been in combat arms mostbof my career and only 2 times was I in Staff. Both times as a BN Engineer representative for an Infantry BN. It made me far smarter in the scope of Battle and Logistics. However my time as a line Grunt, team Leader, SQD Leader and working with SOCOM in support roles where far more fun and I looked forward too much more.
Honestly, I always wanted to be a NCO and do more stuff instead of just staying behind a desk all day and night filling reports. But, I decided officer was the way to go, as I’ve had a lot of leadership experiences in many ways. I’m also fine with staying behind a desk all day, as it may be draining, but for me it’s better then risking your life. Not saying risking your life is bad, but it’s my personal opinion, but will risk my life if needed.
Great video as always ! I'm going in the french army next year. Currently training to maybe be able to go straight to special forces.
I have the choice of starting out at the bottom of the ladder or as a "sous-officier".
I hate desk jobs, paperwork, but I like leadership and responsibilities so I still hesitate a bit ( although I think I prefer starting at the bottom ).
Thank you for this video that helps me a ton making my choice.
sous-officers (non-commisoned) ARE NOT the officers that are being talked about in this video. This video is talking about commissioned officers (I.e. Lieutenant, Capitaine, Commandant, etc)
A Non-Commissioned Officer, or sous-officer, is not a commissioned officer.
I was enlisted, including NCO rank, for 10 years and then as a commissioned officer for 11 years.
I also deployed alongside the French military, which I found very professional and honorable.
What hasn’t been fired yet and dropped only once?
A French rifle 🎉 😝
mec va à l’université et puis va saint-cyr, tu seras diplômé et tu auras plus d’argent
The French have an Army?
After watching this video and making the comparison I think being enlisted would be better for me personally but I wouldn’t mind being an officer due to the fact that I have no wife and kids and I’m more team oriented than worrying about what I want because like it’s been said it’s a team effort to defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies foreign and domestic, and not about what you want.” Service before self” as one of the values of the branch I’m investing my time in (still a civilian)
You guys need to also watch former Navy Seal Jake Zweig’s UA-cam video on enlisted vs officer. Great video like Life is a Special Operation, realllly puts things into brutal perspective. No BS.
Field when I was younger ,🇺🇸🇺🇸⚓️⚓️🇺🇸🇺🇸
Desk for when ya all spent ,bad knees, blow back ,broken bones ,just only have so many miles in ur body ,
A nother great video,
Your knowledge and insight is impressive,an perspective ,
Thank You for ur Service and commitment to our great country you are a patriot thank you
"Soul crushing desk jockey"... 🤣🤣🤣 Yep, I was enlisted half my Army career and retired as a promotable CPT. I had already been a BN S3 for a year and a half. There was no way in hell I was going to do that job again as a MAJ.
It would depend how heavily you value physical work vs the burden of responsibility. If deaths in your unit will weight heavier on you than it does for your men and you have to carry on, I would say a Sir has it harder. The few truly truly good sirs I had in Batt made the admin job look very easy. The guy I looked up to most would take alot of of risks to give his men the mission the not only wanted but excelled at. On the X every time if it was feasible. He would ruffle the whole regiment above him if it meant a tiny win for his boys. And his platoon absolutely adored him, I have never seen a more popular PSG and PL pair in my life as LD3.
When it comes to enlisted, NCO’s share a large burden of authority and responsibility and enlisted are the ones getting their hands dirty on op after op.
It kind of depends on who you are as a leader. A bad officer just looking to sit in the background, take no responsibility, ruffle no feathers and coast off the achievements of his NCO’s while also blaming failures on them isn’t very hard. With the right connections you could sail through promotions without ever truly leading anyone.
The jobs I enjoyed the most, being a Rifle Platoon Leader, Company Commander, and BN SPO. Company Commander was the most demanding and rewarding position for me.
I listen to all of you, and you are so remarkable. I cannot believe how hard you guys work for your country, and I truly would love to say from the bottom of my heart I think you all so much all of you who are military and special forces I know you suffer so much I know you all do but special forces suffers more, and for that, I would like to salute you and tell you how grateful I am as an American. I am very proud of you all of you. I also am very proud of our first responders whether it be police firefighters doctors nurses whatever God bless you all and thank you all for your jobs and your work.
That was super helpful. A family member is thinking of SF and this provides some great info to me
Im a 20 year old in university, thinking of joining up once I graduate. Seems obvious that I should join as an officer, but man enlisted seems like such a more exciting path
Agree with all your points from my 11.5 years in the Intel side of the Army at the Corps and Brigade/Division level.
I used to be an enlisted man in army intelligence. Now, I’m a college student who is going back into the army with an officer’s commission after I get my bachelor’s degree. Considering I’ll be thirty when I go back in, being an officer will be a better fit for me.
The SNCO life is great as well.
@@blakedodson6997 SNCOs are obviously E-9s and I’m guessing E-8s? Right?
Great vid. Now that you have progressed to civi life. Would you say being an officer was more advantageous to your post-military success than being enlisted?
You have a great question here, nowadays, there are many enlisted that have more college than some officers. The education level has risen in the NCO ranks. Many NCOs see how young LTs get treated by them o5's and above. Why would you want to get belittled and embarrassed as a person? Why should some enlisted go Green to Gold when there's no need anymore? I have witnessed in the BN XO at a BN formation (a Major) yell at the LTs in the middle of the BN formation instead of taking them to the side; personally, I believe that was very unprofessional. especially for them young LTs to experience.
I know I'm only an enlisted with a college education, but why would I want to get belittled like that when I'm already an NCO and can continue with my service? I can still get a great job opportunity when I finish my time; the times have changed. There is no more of that facade of enlisted being uneducated.
@@DozSkills Yeah I would agree. I know a master sergeant went through college with almost a 4.0 GPA, higher than 90% of cadets. But I think when push comes to shove the army always needs its bureaucrats, planners, and administrators.
@@DozSkills Good point. There are more options to choose from in this era. I was a prior junior enlisted now working on my doctoral degree...
@@DozSkills You're talking about senior officers disrespecting junior officers, but we all know senior enlisted enjoy shitting on junior enlisted almost every chance they get.
@ethanfleckenstein2334 and I also don't agree with that. But times have changed, you don't see it as much disrespect as you use to in the 90s and early 2000s.
Im a Airborne Vet. Officer is way harder for sure. As enlisted I was just responsible for taking care of myself. Yes you move up and become a squad leader. A lieutenant is in charge of a platoon right off thebat with no experience. It is a brutal existence right off the bat. Me and my platoon recognized this and always loved our lieutenants and did all we could for them. They were all good men. AIRBORNE!!!
My father was a CW in the Navy. I wish I'd had the chance to go that route. He said it was nearly the perfect job, he could get things done and rarely had to suffer too much oversight and always had the respect of the senior O's.
One small caveat on medic and doctor, combat medics in infantry units are the absolute heat!! Some very solid information.
Great overall video. As an E-5 I definitely had more privileges than E-4 but had more overall responsibilities as well.
I would say rank has its privilege's, big time. Not on the work end as discussed here, but on the accountability and discipline end. A Lt, Maj, etc will be disciplined entirely differently, if at all, than even senior NCO's. Not universally true, but happens more often than not. Same differences go for members of standard units vs special units. Though all these jobs have their own suck and I think its great that it is mentioned, and that it depends on what kind of person you are. That is absolutely true. 22 years senior NCO.
The one thing you missed was pay scale and housing between officers and enlisted.
You're exactly right.GOD BLESS
Started out as enlisted while I work on a degree online so I can Commission through OCS. I wanted my enlistment time before commissioning to have a broader horizon and know the Army before having to be a leader of men
Spot on. I’ll add this, the awesome responsibility of UCMJ as a commander. It is never easy, especially when you’re dealing with a decent Soldier.
Special Forces are an awesome group of Americans that all want to be there, highly motivated, outside types. I am not one of those, but I have the same inclinations despite being in a vastly different culture based on my branch.
It is, what you make it. I enjoyed being enlisted, and definitely love being an officer. I’ve avoided staff until Major, and definitely being a Battalion XO and Ops while satisfying in many ways, it does take a toll. My next job, hopefully is fun, on joint staff, embassy, working in a very strategically important part of world…but every assignment is what you make of it, every duty station, every unit.