I don't understand how Mengsk didn't win in HotS. All he had to do was activate the Terran sound system, deploy 10 ghosts, and Kerrigan wouldn't have stood a chance.
Cause in lore Ghosts are rare and not common at all, it's only in the game where they are far too common. Lore accurate Ghosts for the game would be limited to no more than 5 at a time.
I find watching these games gets so frustrating when mass ghosts hit the field. Snipe countering just about everything late-game (particularly vs Zerg) makes for some really disappointing encounters. "Oh, here we go, and, nope, they got too close to the ghosts without getting the drop on them, game over." Woo. Thematically, snipe feels like it should be another counter-caster ability, taking out high priority soft targets, not demolishing heavily armored behemoths. THAT should be a role for anti-armor units, rather than assassins.
It doesn't help that terran can turtle out the game* until they can get ghosts by using siege tanks, which ALSO stone-walls the obvious ghost counter of more banelings/hydras/roaches *assuming that the zerg player is unable to inflict enough eco damage fast to prevent siege tanks from becoming prevalent
@@GrinchAxel Terran is just turtling and slowly dropping un-contested expansions while getting +3/+3 upgrades to do a no brainer A-move. Turtling and mules are OP. Bly is obviously trying to prevent terrans from expanding while expanding, which is a BW technique and its obvious that it's not working to well. I'm cheering him on and he's executing it very well but terran mechanics won't allow it.
Either they nerf the ghost emp and snipe skill, or they limit the amount of ghost in the field, about 5 should be enough. Or better yet make them consume 10 supply.
@@GameBoy-j3j I think Snipe should just do 0 damage (maybe 25/33/50 percent, depending on balance) vs. Massive. Counter that by giving Thors the same +10/+1 bonus vs Massive on the ground. Make Terran build Thors again, rather than Ghosts being the One Unit to Rule Them All now that banes are ineffective in the late game.
@@user-nh2bf4to7g That would displace the problem on thors countering everything late game zerg by having them smoke all T3 zerg units. Ghosts should be 3pop a piece and have the light tag added to them, just like the other races spellcasters have an armor type making them vulnerable to some attacks. Or nerf their auto attack, there's no reason a spellcaster should have as much DPS as a main line unit (stalker) doubling that against light. Defensively, ghost have the best armor type and the most HP of any spellcaster and cloak on top of that (while being an hard counter to detection). And that's without considering medivacs that allow them to stay alive far longer than other spellcasters. Offensively they hit like mainline units (roach/stalker) and do double that against light with the best type of attack (instant, no projectile) that avoid wasting DPS on overkill, before taking in account their spells. Each countering the whole roster of another race (EMP hit anything protoss for instant 100 damage, deplete energy and reveal cloak / snipe one tap anything zerg that isn't an ultra or brood lord). All that while not costing significantly more than other spellcasters, in fact the y are the cheapest ones gas wise. Oracles cost more than ghost. I don't know at which point we collectively accepted that yeah, one race should be more cost effective and pop effective than the other two but that is some prime bullshit.
The reason we feel like there's only one allowed way to play is because SC2 is so fast we're not allowed to think during the game. You've said it before in previous casts, thinking is the weakness of SC2 players. And if you aren't allowed to think can only play one way - the way you practiced.
Isn't that pretty much true of any sport though? If you're playing basketball you can't call for a timeout for every play, and even in a game with more breaks in between plays like football (the American one) you have to rely on training and called plays; stopping to think is always death. If you want to take your time between every move then play Civ.
2nd game really hammer home why Sc1 is still so popular. Game was very fun with all the gritty back and forth for the first 15min, then terran (and the game overall) hits a point where you can hardly recover from one last engagement, unlike SC1 where you'd see swarms of zergs/dark cloud hits everwhere at once. Maybe I'm a bit biased, but putting myself in the terran shoes, the Ghost "critical mass" doesn't look that fun.
Yep, longer games are more fun for sure. There are some exceptions like wild base trades that leaves each player with 1 base that they have to rebuild from scratch and essentially restart the game.
What a series. This had me laughing out loud while my housemates are trying to sleep. Bly might be my favorite comedian alive and Lowko's commentary just puts it over the top.
Lowko speaks about Terran late game comp choice like it's not always a mass ghosts. that counter pretty much everything on the zerg late game army . I am surprised Bly was able to make it look close. It's sad that current state of zvt does not actually reward strategy. Just mass ghosts and micro on Terran side
@@hivetech4903 I think the complaints are more that with Ghosts being such a good generic response to late game Zerg units (especially alongside how they are effective vs Protoss as well), it means the Terran has less incentive to respond to the Zerg end-game comps in different ways. This leads to less dynamic, and less interesting to watch, games - where the best games are those where this is a back and forth and having to out-think what the opponent is going to do and what direction they will take their army, etc. Ghosts being universally strong removes some of that interesting tension - and worse, they do it in a fairly boring way, by just having spells that deal a lot of up-front damage that don't really have a shift on how to approach the battlefield (like Storm does, for example).
@@bricelory9534 I am a Terrain main but I agree, Ghosts seem to have (almost) everything as a response to various army comps vs Zerg and Protoss. But I only base this from the pro games I watch. I don't know what could possibly be done to tweak this a bit. I only remember in SC1, Science Vessels had EMP. Some say the snipe should only be good against soft targets but usually, soft targets are the swarmy ones or spellcasters and EMP is already an option for them. If they're gonna limit the option for snipe to only that where EMP is already good for it then what else is the snipe used for? If they remove snipe then what else is there? Siege Liberators? Then what are Ghosts for then? Just dropping nukes? I'm no ladder player so I have no idea what happens there but some suggestions just sound off at times.
Again, ghosts and snipe is broken, it literally counters ALL of zergs late game units. I mean, broodmothers are nearly as big as battlecruisers, could you image seeing this massive flying creature, and 2 sniper bois just take it out with 2 shots.... like seriously, would you be okay with this happening to a battlecruiser, two snipers taking down a literal space ship? I think snipe needs to take more shots against an armored unit like ultras and snipe shouldn't be able to shoot flying units, or it takes twice or three times as long to cast snipe on a flying unit.
Huge props to Bly nonetheless! He bringing us interesting games by having unorthodox strategies and then also playing games out without surrendering - even when significantly behind - giving us great games to view. Thank you Bly!
Bly can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. In that first game he needed to walk right past the bunker and attack the depots and any repairing SCVs while zoning out the marines and reaper. Second game he blew with bad micro, losing the drone and the creep tumor.
The Uktralisk could have the upgrade baked into the unit, and then make the plating upgrade to resist (or flatout negate) ghost sniper shots maybe 😅? Great series and cast as always ❤
@@shadowpriest2574 Yeah, but your feelings don't seem to be held up with fact, other than Serral, and that's still 50/50 for Z. And Serral is an anomaly. T does everything well, Early, Mid , Late, Aggression, Defense, T is good at it all. LowKo even talks about the late game units of Zerg falling off in todays meta. Every late game Z unit gets smacked by T's mid/late game units. (Even stimmed marines shit on tier 3 Z units) It looks like every ZvT is the Zerg doing everything they can to get any advantage, and the Terran just does basic fundamentals. Build Broods? Okay, a hand full of Vikings which can also just switch from air to ground whenever. Mass any ground unit comp? Welp, 1-2 high ground siege tanks at 4 minutes just eliminates that, even scans on Lurkers makes that cake. BUT GET VIPERS!!! A tier 3 hive unit, that cost 3 supply and can't defend itself to again, Vikings or anything really. Just lost on what it is while watching or playing ladder you're finding Zerg able to do better than Terran is able to do? To me, I always try and blame myself for my losses. "What could I have done to win that game?", this comes easy with ZvZ or ZvP, but with ZvT I find myself perplexed at what SC2 wants me to do with a fully turtled Terran at 3 minutes (besides All-in at 5) who seems to get resources faster than me and mid/late game units just delete mine unless they go mass bio and I get a great Bane collapse on them. Nidus and OV-Drops are so easily defended once out of Plat. Would love to hear what it is I'm missing to sway my mind, it sure would assist with not getting bent up about it in matches.
You must be either 8 years old or very, very bad at this game. "Without any effort?" Play much pro level SC2 recently? Defending Bly's horrible play here?
@@Sketchy-- "T does everything well, Early, Mid , Late, Aggression, Defense, T is good at it all." 1. Could you define your terms a bit? I can guess what those mean to you but they likely don't mean the same to me. 2. All 3 races are fairly good at it all, it just so happens that Zerg is better than the other 2 at everything other than late game against Terran and even then, the beauty of it all is that you don't even have to win the end game to win as zerg, since you can lose your way to victory due to bigger bank and map control. "LowKo even talks about the late game units of Zerg falling off in todays meta. " Right, because that is the trade off of the race for better everything else, from the economy , to map control, to near immunity to any funny business in the mid and late game (like how a single nydus worm can end a game for terran , but terran has no such opportunity . The only way for Terran to win is the hard way), to the cheapest and potentially cheapest harass options and so on. "It looks like every ZvT is the Zerg doing everything they can to get any advantage" They already had all of the advantages, its quite disgusting that they can work harder and get even more..... or that you think that that is fair. They already have map control + more economy + better production + near maphack lvl's of vision + the tools to delay any stronger force from just coming in and killing them (banelings) and many more and you think they need more? Terran has a stronger army in late game because they need to have it. Zerg already has everything given to it on a silver platter, but God forbid they actually have to earn something in the late game. "Build Broods? Okay, a hand full of Vikings which can also just switch from air to ground whenever." Terran does not rly counter them with Vikings as Vikings take production time, its better to kill them with Ghosts. Also, why would the Terran make Vikings? You understand that the Zerg can just switch tech at the drop of a hat, right? The moment the Zerg puts those Brood Lords online, the terran won't rly have any Vikings, it will take time. "Just lost on what it is while watching or playing ladder you're finding Zerg able to do better than Terran is able to do?" I already listed a few. Terran has very few things that it does better than Zerg. The only 2 are the posibility of higher army supply in the late game and the possibility of better army quality in the end game and both of these are possiblities, not guarantees. "but with ZvT I find myself perplexed at what SC2 wants me to do with a fully turtled Terran at 3 minutes " Get more bases, get better tech(Ultras/Lurkers/Brood Lords/Vipers) and roll them? A defensive terran is a dead terran against zerg. You should not even try to attack Terran as Zerg unless you want to all in. If you have better economy and better production, they can turtle all they want, their defense will break sooner or later and if they are turtled up by minute 3, yes it will fall sooner rather than later .
Love what Bly is doing to try and shake things up. As a spectator, mass ghost is really unexciting as it counters so many things and is a good answer to many others - against both Zerg and Protoss. I love long games because they can have some really interesting push and pull, even with turtling, but I feel like Ghosts in their current state suck out a lot of interest in it. We know how the Terran will go, and I find that Ghost having tood casts against Zerg AND Protoss is too much. I like what someone else said that Snipe absolutely wrecking Ultras is a thematic L as well - assassins strike soft, high-value targets, loke casters, not the building-sized, heavily armored scissor-elephants. I hope some tweak to Ghosts will be coming if for no other reason that they make Terran matchups less dynamic.
Their mistake was tweaking Zerg based on Serral, not Zerg players. Though I'm a Terran main, I feel the Zerg struggle. IMO I don't think Terran needs a nerf BUT Zerg needs a buff. A Zerff! 😄
Watched so many games this week and feel like once Terran makes enough ghosts, they slow win against zerg, snipe ultras, broodlords, lurkers all to death.
They would be too good then. 9 Armor? What the hell do you even use to kill that then? Also, spell damage reduction? You understand that Terran won't have any counter to them after that, right?
@@VeMi1337 What, you mean Liberators? Ah....isn't it much for the only counter to the Ultra to be a Siege unit? Also, how would you even force the zerg into anything then? Horrible idea!
@@shadowpriest2574oh you mean like how Im forced to make banes against mass marines? Or how about corruptors against the mass BC? Terrans crying about being forced to do anything is a joke when zerg has literally no viable harassment options without going all in.
Snipers having an aoe emp and snipe is kinda ridiculous. Ravens have a lock on missle that fulfill that, and the aoe emp is way too powerful against zerg spellcasters which they rely on.
It's been a decade since I was interested in sc2 and I'm trying to get back into it... These TvZ games are just making me feel I shouldn't retain interest
well, in my mind zergs have to use multiple nyduses in order to make terrans army go around from one place to another instead of fighting it. it can also be used to safe drones and transfer them and secure bases. should have more than one evolved hatchery. base trading if possible (you better have a lot of mutalisks when this happen). zergs expansions should start from as-near-to-the-enemy-as-it`s-safe-for-the-time-of-harvest and go backwards, ultimately trying to mine more resources than the terran.
he was making some fundermantal mistakes... Like when the BL pushes, there is no anti air units... when the roaches pulled the army to the right, the BL sitting there doing nothing, they could have easily killed the group of Ghost from the back. He doesn't protect his expensive spell casters and just attack group the whole thing. You can tell easily why he is wasting his whole army.
What would people think who know a lot more about the game balance than I do currently think of just making Ultras immune to Snipe? I know they nerfed Snipe itself awhile ago but it does seem it wasn't enough. Make Ultras the counter to Ghosts maybe, I know Mauraders and Tanks are still hard on the Ultras but making something like Broodlords immune to Snipe seems too good. Maybe tie it to the Chitonous Plating to give it a use.
I mean if you put Clem up versus bly it is kinda obvious who of them will win no? It would be crazy if someone who basically retired from SC2 to beat the undisputed best Terran outside of Korea.
@@gabrielreinalter2269 well, Bly did the same 3 times and lost 3 times, Clem is good, we all know that. But zergs have no chance against terrans, simply because terrans have all in its kit, they can counter everything the zerg can throw.
@@EmilioJVC Bly is not really a late game zerg though, he had some advantages at time sure but small mistakes just kept adding up and allowed Clem to climb back. However I seriously doubt that he would be able to do the same vs Dark or Solar. And hell Serral was destroying people in late game, remember masters colosseum?
@gabrielreinalter2269 Serral is the best SC2 player in history, so we understand when he wins. Dark and Solar are not, so we understand that they won't. The real problem is Zerg is balanced around Serral. Six months from now, we'll realize Zerg is winning about as many majors as Protoss did in 2022-2023.
Haven't been in the military and its different country to country but I suspect you don't have access to a computer as you are effectively in training full time even during the evening
There is some free time (especially after basic training) most evenings, during which you can get a permission to go as you please, as long as you return before the curfew. People also might get extra time off if they are competive in sports. I have no idea if esports counts though. It depends on a lot on his service branch/ how far away from the armybase he lives if he is going to be able to continue training or not if he is not granted those priviledges as a pro-athlete.
Bly should have ended his "cheese" with swarm host nydus. I feel like both later games were perfect situation for that. All the same upgrades he already had
i havent kept up with SC2 but i remember Zerg being the end all be all, top the charts in everything race. things really have changed. Terran used to be the bottom tier.
In game 2, if Zerg could trade even for a while and split map after mining out so much of the expo during the contain, there would be a chance. But Terran trades insanely💀
swarm hosts would've made Bly more winning potential if he deployed them on ~8th minute in both games 2 and 3. if you go cheese you should as well produce swarm hosts.
annyone in his 30s having same issue like me I have a lot of games but I cant play anything for more than 10 minutes before I am bored, I oftend start games and watch the menu do something in inventory and get kinda bored, but I used to play 10h a day back then without getting bored am I getting old or are games nowdays this bad?
As someone who hasn't played in a very long time I know my opinion means fuck all but it seems like snipe is just a massive problem with the tvz matchup. It counters every tier 3 unit for zerg. And if the ghost snipes a couple overseers than the zerg can't even hit the ghost with cloak. Seems like zerg has to get super far ahead to win against terran.
Its getting so tiresome to see Terran get free wins as soon as they transition into Ghost-Lib. The problem with Zerg late game units is that they are all hyperspecialized and will dominate but only when mass produced, which is thematic but also very poor game design. Best example of this is the corruptor: it will dominate the air when produced in mass, but once the aerial fight is won, zerg will find itself floating 40-50 supply in useless units. That doesnt happen with a carrier or a BC, which can be used in more various situations to both assault bases as well as armies. Its the same for broodlords which will do their job against ground units, but will be decimated by 3 random vikings. As a zerg, you need to have the perfect amount of units to counter exactly the number targets you will be facing -- units which are inherently made to be non-cost effective. Oh, and you need to decide that ration with limited information because the fog of war is a thing and Zerg has the worst scouting capabilities of all 3 races. Meanwhile you have the ghost, which counters every single zerg unit cost efficiently (including banelings, because for some reason, even though they wear what basically amounts to futuristic spandex, they arent considered light units and have more HP than marines wearing body armor), while also countering casters AND can cut the HP of any toss army in half with the press of a button -- ow, and if they do get caught, you can just cloak right after sniping any detection. Brilliant design.
Its because Lowko's friend and commentator WinterSC loves to pretend sc2 queens are old grannies because they use to be able to fly in broodwar now they are grounded and crippled unless they are on creep, also they use sowing needles for their attack.
zerg is supposed to be the , idk what im doing . ill make a bunch of units ( that are not that great ) and run run run race . they tried to make them like toss . zerg is not toss there zerg . the whole game is outa blance when zerg has consontration strength units like , brood lord and courruptor , roach ect , sorta lurker . why would you nerf bayling , they are 50% a waste to start ? ppls dont undertands the trifecta of sc . glass cannon vs , low and slow , vs spam central . the whole mystic of SC was beating hoards of zerg units . and then every once and a while Raynor and Zeratul get in a fight over bo peep .
Terran and Protoss can mathematically outproduce zerg. That is indisputably wrong and therefor the game has been unbalanced from the very onset of wings of liberty.
I don't understand how Mengsk didn't win in HotS. All he had to do was activate the Terran sound system, deploy 10 ghosts, and Kerrigan wouldn't have stood a chance.
Cause in lore Ghosts are rare and not common at all, it's only in the game where they are far too common. Lore accurate Ghosts for the game would be limited to no more than 5 at a time.
I find watching these games gets so frustrating when mass ghosts hit the field. Snipe countering just about everything late-game (particularly vs Zerg) makes for some really disappointing encounters. "Oh, here we go, and, nope, they got too close to the ghosts without getting the drop on them, game over." Woo.
Thematically, snipe feels like it should be another counter-caster ability, taking out high priority soft targets, not demolishing heavily armored behemoths. THAT should be a role for anti-armor units, rather than assassins.
It doesn't help that terran can turtle out the game* until they can get ghosts by using siege tanks, which ALSO stone-walls the obvious ghost counter of more banelings/hydras/roaches
*assuming that the zerg player is unable to inflict enough eco damage fast to prevent siege tanks from becoming prevalent
@@GrinchAxel Terran is just turtling and slowly dropping un-contested expansions while getting +3/+3 upgrades to do a no brainer A-move. Turtling and mules are OP.
Bly is obviously trying to prevent terrans from expanding while expanding, which is a BW technique and its obvious that it's not working to well. I'm cheering him on and he's executing it very well but terran mechanics won't allow it.
Either they nerf the ghost emp and snipe skill, or they limit the amount of ghost in the field, about 5 should be enough. Or better yet make them consume 10 supply.
@@GameBoy-j3j I think Snipe should just do 0 damage (maybe 25/33/50 percent, depending on balance) vs. Massive. Counter that by giving Thors the same +10/+1 bonus vs Massive on the ground. Make Terran build Thors again, rather than Ghosts being the One Unit to Rule Them All now that banes are ineffective in the late game.
@@user-nh2bf4to7g That would displace the problem on thors countering everything late game zerg by having them smoke all T3 zerg units.
Ghosts should be 3pop a piece and have the light tag added to them, just like the other races spellcasters have an armor type making them vulnerable to some attacks. Or nerf their auto attack, there's no reason a spellcaster should have as much DPS as a main line unit (stalker) doubling that against light.
Defensively, ghost have the best armor type and the most HP of any spellcaster and cloak on top of that (while being an hard counter to detection). And that's without considering medivacs that allow them to stay alive far longer than other spellcasters.
Offensively they hit like mainline units (roach/stalker) and do double that against light with the best type of attack (instant, no projectile) that avoid wasting DPS on overkill, before taking in account their spells. Each countering the whole roster of another race (EMP hit anything protoss for instant 100 damage, deplete energy and reveal cloak / snipe one tap anything zerg that isn't an ultra or brood lord).
All that while not costing significantly more than other spellcasters, in fact the y are the cheapest ones gas wise. Oracles cost more than ghost.
I don't know at which point we collectively accepted that yeah, one race should be more cost effective and pop effective than the other two but that is some prime bullshit.
Man I love Bly, he doesn't get enough love!! Love to see the cheese
My bedtime routine involves a Lowko starcraft commentary to wind down before sleep
Me too. It's so nice to have all these videos ❤️
Sane
Same
Same!
The reason we feel like there's only one allowed way to play is because SC2 is so fast we're not allowed to think during the game. You've said it before in previous casts, thinking is the weakness of SC2 players. And if you aren't allowed to think can only play one way - the way you practiced.
Isn't that pretty much true of any sport though? If you're playing basketball you can't call for a timeout for every play, and even in a game with more breaks in between plays like football (the American one) you have to rely on training and called plays; stopping to think is always death. If you want to take your time between every move then play Civ.
Whatever you play will be alright. Go have fun!
I think "Brenda Cycle" should be an official unit of measurement.
14:45 "bly never got the memo... main base? wydm main base, the whole map is my main base" lol...one of my favorite things about lowko is humor!
2nd game really hammer home why Sc1 is still so popular. Game was very fun with all the gritty back and forth for the first 15min, then terran (and the game overall) hits a point where you can hardly recover from one last engagement, unlike SC1 where you'd see swarms of zergs/dark cloud hits everwhere at once. Maybe I'm a bit biased, but putting myself in the terran shoes, the Ghost "critical mass" doesn't look that fun.
Yep, longer games are more fun for sure. There are some exceptions like wild base trades that leaves each player with 1 base that they have to rebuild from scratch and essentially restart the game.
Agreed.
@@shadowpriest2574 I remember that. Remember I had to use a shuttle to taxi probes to an island and get minerals. It was insane.
didnt think id see you here
Mass ghost being a go-to late game answer to Zerg and many Protoss comps gets stale quickly from a viewing perspective if nothing else.
Name a Zerg late game unit, that isn't countered by ghosts! :D
What a series. This had me laughing out loud while my housemates are trying to sleep. Bly might be my favorite comedian alive and Lowko's commentary just puts it over the top.
More Bly, More Bly, More Bly! Love his playstyle, entertaining as hell to watch him play
so awesome seeing bly play again. I used to watch him back in 2012 with WhiteRA and HUK. Im also 35 and well passed post youth. lol
The roach at 18:04 is so cute lmao
It's like "NOoooo!"
Lowko speaks about Terran late game comp choice like it's not always a mass ghosts. that counter pretty much everything on the zerg late game army . I am surprised Bly was able to make it look close. It's sad that current state of zvt does not actually reward strategy. Just mass ghosts and micro on Terran side
Plat league analysis.
try microing it yourself
@@hivetech4903 I think the complaints are more that with Ghosts being such a good generic response to late game Zerg units (especially alongside how they are effective vs Protoss as well), it means the Terran has less incentive to respond to the Zerg end-game comps in different ways. This leads to less dynamic, and less interesting to watch, games - where the best games are those where this is a back and forth and having to out-think what the opponent is going to do and what direction they will take their army, etc. Ghosts being universally strong removes some of that interesting tension - and worse, they do it in a fairly boring way, by just having spells that deal a lot of up-front damage that don't really have a shift on how to approach the battlefield (like Storm does, for example).
@@bricelory9534 I am a Terrain main but I agree, Ghosts seem to have (almost) everything as a response to various army comps vs Zerg and Protoss. But I only base this from the pro games I watch. I don't know what could possibly be done to tweak this a bit. I only remember in SC1, Science Vessels had EMP.
Some say the snipe should only be good against soft targets but usually, soft targets are the swarmy ones or spellcasters and EMP is already an option for them. If they're gonna limit the option for snipe to only that where EMP is already good for it then what else is the snipe used for? If they remove snipe then what else is there? Siege Liberators? Then what are Ghosts for then? Just dropping nukes?
I'm no ladder player so I have no idea what happens there but some suggestions just sound off at times.
@@crapsound just go full BW and put EMP on the raven and interference matrix on the ghost
Again, ghosts and snipe is broken, it literally counters ALL of zergs late game units. I mean, broodmothers are nearly as big as battlecruisers, could you image seeing this massive flying creature, and 2 sniper bois just take it out with 2 shots.... like seriously, would you be okay with this happening to a battlecruiser, two snipers taking down a literal space ship? I think snipe needs to take more shots against an armored unit like ultras and snipe shouldn't be able to shoot flying units, or it takes twice or three times as long to cast snipe on a flying unit.
Huge props to Bly nonetheless!
He bringing us interesting games by having unorthodox strategies and then also playing games out without surrendering - even when significantly behind - giving us great games to view. Thank you Bly!
Boy should have gone for the worm in game no2 when he had creep on the expansion terrain
Clem’s defensive play has improved a lot over the past few months. Game 2 you could have told me it was Maru playing and I would have believed it.
I dont need to watch the games to know ghosts will decimate every thing and zerg will ultimately lose.
Bly can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. In that first game he needed to walk right past the bunker and attack the depots and any repairing SCVs while zoning out the marines and reaper. Second game he blew with bad micro, losing the drone and the creep tumor.
I love when I finish watching the latest Lowko video just 25sec after he releases another one lol
Thanks for the video, Lowko. Always a pleasure.
A Bo5 with Bly and Clem, that's an hour long?!?!
oooh, this is going to be fire!
I would wanna see Bly going up against Dark. They both play such a fun style
Conspiracy theory: Bly doesn't hide his practice games because Bly doesn't exist - it's just Dark having a laugh after a few drinks
The Uktralisk could have the upgrade baked into the unit, and then make the plating upgrade to resist (or flatout negate) ghost sniper shots maybe 😅?
Great series and cast as always ❤
22:40 little roachbanes :D
ZvT just feels like a downer to watch because T just counters everything Z has without effort
I feel the same except the other way around. No matter how good the T plays, it still won't matter because Zerg has too many advantages.
That is why it is better to see ZvP
@@shadowpriest2574 Yeah, but your feelings don't seem to be held up with fact, other than Serral, and that's still 50/50 for Z. And Serral is an anomaly.
T does everything well, Early, Mid , Late, Aggression, Defense, T is good at it all. LowKo even talks about the late game units of Zerg falling off in todays meta. Every late game Z unit gets smacked by T's mid/late game units. (Even stimmed marines shit on tier 3 Z units) It looks like every ZvT is the Zerg doing everything they can to get any advantage, and the Terran just does basic fundamentals.
Build Broods? Okay, a hand full of Vikings which can also just switch from air to ground whenever. Mass any ground unit comp? Welp, 1-2 high ground siege tanks at 4 minutes just eliminates that, even scans on Lurkers makes that cake. BUT GET VIPERS!!! A tier 3 hive unit, that cost 3 supply and can't defend itself to again, Vikings or anything really.
Just lost on what it is while watching or playing ladder you're finding Zerg able to do better than Terran is able to do? To me, I always try and blame myself for my losses. "What could I have done to win that game?", this comes easy with ZvZ or ZvP, but with ZvT I find myself perplexed at what SC2 wants me to do with a fully turtled Terran at 3 minutes (besides All-in at 5) who seems to get resources faster than me and mid/late game units just delete mine unless they go mass bio and I get a great Bane collapse on them. Nidus and OV-Drops are so easily defended once out of Plat.
Would love to hear what it is I'm missing to sway my mind, it sure would assist with not getting bent up about it in matches.
You must be either 8 years old or very, very bad at this game. "Without any effort?" Play much pro level SC2 recently? Defending Bly's horrible play here?
@@Sketchy-- "T does everything well, Early, Mid , Late, Aggression, Defense, T is good at it all."
1. Could you define your terms a bit? I can guess what those mean to you but they likely don't mean the same to me.
2. All 3 races are fairly good at it all, it just so happens that Zerg is better than the other 2 at everything other than late game against Terran and even then, the beauty of it all is that you don't even have to win the end game to win as zerg, since you can lose your way to victory due to bigger bank and map control.
"LowKo even talks about the late game units of Zerg falling off in todays meta. "
Right, because that is the trade off of the race for better everything else, from the economy , to map control, to near immunity to any funny business in the mid and late game (like how a single nydus worm can end a game for terran , but terran has no such opportunity . The only way for Terran to win is the hard way), to the cheapest and potentially cheapest harass options and so on.
"It looks like every ZvT is the Zerg doing everything they can to get any advantage"
They already had all of the advantages, its quite disgusting that they can work harder and get even more..... or that you think that that is fair. They already have map control + more economy + better production + near maphack lvl's of vision + the tools to delay any stronger force from just coming in and killing them (banelings) and many more and you think they need more?
Terran has a stronger army in late game because they need to have it. Zerg already has everything given to it on a silver platter, but God forbid they actually have to earn something in the late game.
"Build Broods? Okay, a hand full of Vikings which can also just switch from air to ground whenever."
Terran does not rly counter them with Vikings as Vikings take production time, its better to kill them with Ghosts. Also, why would the Terran make Vikings? You understand that the Zerg can just switch tech at the drop of a hat, right? The moment the Zerg puts those Brood Lords online, the terran won't rly have any Vikings, it will take time.
"Just lost on what it is while watching or playing ladder you're finding Zerg able to do better than Terran is able to do?"
I already listed a few. Terran has very few things that it does better than Zerg. The only 2 are the posibility of higher army supply in the late game and the possibility of better army quality in the end game and both of these are possiblities, not guarantees.
"but with ZvT I find myself perplexed at what SC2 wants me to do with a fully turtled Terran at 3 minutes "
Get more bases, get better tech(Ultras/Lurkers/Brood Lords/Vipers) and roll them? A defensive terran is a dead terran against zerg. You should not even try to attack Terran as Zerg unless you want to all in. If you have better economy and better production, they can turtle all they want, their defense will break sooner or later and if they are turtled up by minute 3, yes it will fall sooner rather than later .
Love what Bly is doing to try and shake things up.
As a spectator, mass ghost is really unexciting as it counters so many things and is a good answer to many others - against both Zerg and Protoss. I love long games because they can have some really interesting push and pull, even with turtling, but I feel like Ghosts in their current state suck out a lot of interest in it. We know how the Terran will go, and I find that Ghost having tood casts against Zerg AND Protoss is too much.
I like what someone else said that Snipe absolutely wrecking Ultras is a thematic L as well - assassins strike soft, high-value targets, loke casters, not the building-sized, heavily armored scissor-elephants.
I hope some tweak to Ghosts will be coming if for no other reason that they make Terran matchups less dynamic.
I think they are going for the sniper aiming for the only weak spot of the big armored unit, like you know hitting the brain through the eye or idk.
I literally keep a playlist of successful Zerg cheese’s that I leave play while I fall asleep
I don't want to be a smart arse but according to ALIGULAC, Clem is number 4 in the world
It seems like the zergs winning strategy in TvZ is relying on enemy mistakes...
Their mistake was tweaking Zerg based on Serral, not Zerg players.
Though I'm a Terran main, I feel the Zerg struggle. IMO I don't think Terran needs a nerf BUT Zerg needs a buff. A Zerff! 😄
@@crapsound This. Thank you!
Zerg’s are feeling the Protoss ouchy now, without Serral carrying them
I think Bly is doing Terran Macro as a Zerg (spamming Workers & Army almost Simultaneously) that's why it's working against a Terran 😊
20:23 Bly uses siege tank friendly fire to kill 4 additional scvs
I thought this vid was gonna be another game of the year
great series!
Watched so many games this week and feel like once Terran makes enough ghosts, they slow win against zerg, snipe ultras, broodlords, lurkers all to death.
To make Ultras good, they should spawn with +2 armor by default and Chitinous Plating upgrade should give another +2 and 50% spell dmg reduction.
They would be too good then. 9 Armor? What the hell do you even use to kill that then? Also, spell damage reduction? You understand that Terran won't have any counter to them after that, right?
@@shadowpriest2574 air units would like to have a talk
@@VeMi1337 What, you mean Liberators? Ah....isn't it much for the only counter to the Ultra to be a Siege unit? Also, how would you even force the zerg into anything then?
Horrible idea!
Early Lotv they gave ultra a mere +1. It was overpowered.
@@shadowpriest2574oh you mean like how Im forced to make banes against mass marines? Or how about corruptors against the mass BC? Terrans crying about being forced to do anything is a joke when zerg has literally no viable harassment options without going all in.
Snipers having an aoe emp and snipe is kinda ridiculous. Ravens have a lock on missle that fulfill that, and the aoe emp is way too powerful against zerg spellcasters which they rely on.
zerg players know the late game they are at a disadvantage so its better to cheese or just hurry the game along before it gets to that point
It's been a decade since I was interested in sc2 and I'm trying to get back into it... These TvZ games are just making me feel I shouldn't retain interest
Bly's strategy + Serral's skill = Zerg's final form
well, in my mind zergs have to use multiple nyduses in order to make terrans army go around from one place to another instead of fighting it. it can also be used to safe drones and transfer them and secure bases. should have more than one evolved hatchery. base trading if possible (you better have a lot of mutalisks when this happen). zergs expansions should start from as-near-to-the-enemy-as-it`s-safe-for-the-time-of-harvest and go backwards, ultimately trying to mine more resources than the terran.
he was making some fundermantal mistakes... Like when the BL pushes, there is no anti air units... when the roaches pulled the army to the right, the BL sitting there doing nothing, they could have easily killed the group of Ghost from the back. He doesn't protect his expensive spell casters and just attack group the whole thing. You can tell easily why he is wasting his whole army.
Ah more beautiful Bly games
Bly woke up and chose violence
winter casted this series on may 16th
Le me: starts watching a Starcraft 2 game, gets reminded how old I am.... feels bad man.
How old are you, bro?
What's a Kilometer Dad?
It's the distance you run when you're too weak to run a mile son.
Terran is just to OP since SC1 period.
in gemrany we have the same number for the emergency
Thanks for another vid Lowko! Fyi the saying is “put two and two together” not one
What would people think who know a lot more about the game balance than I do currently think of just making Ultras immune to Snipe? I know they nerfed Snipe itself awhile ago but it does seem it wasn't enough. Make Ultras the counter to Ghosts maybe, I know Mauraders and Tanks are still hard on the Ultras but making something like Broodlords immune to Snipe seems too good. Maybe tie it to the Chitonous Plating to give it a use.
Dang bly is fun to watch
Another terran win, like always. Because terrans have everything, and can counter everything and has no weaknesses
I mean if you put Clem up versus bly it is kinda obvious who of them will win no? It would be crazy if someone who basically retired from SC2 to beat the undisputed best Terran outside of Korea.
@@gabrielreinalter2269 well, Bly did the same 3 times and lost 3 times, Clem is good, we all know that. But zergs have no chance against terrans, simply because terrans have all in its kit, they can counter everything the zerg can throw.
@@EmilioJVC Bly is not really a late game zerg though, he had some advantages at time sure but small mistakes just kept adding up and allowed Clem to climb back.
However I seriously doubt that he would be able to do the same vs Dark or Solar.
And hell Serral was destroying people in late game, remember masters colosseum?
@gabrielreinalter2269 Serral is the best SC2 player in history, so we understand when he wins. Dark and Solar are not, so we understand that they won't.
The real problem is Zerg is balanced around Serral. Six months from now, we'll realize Zerg is winning about as many majors as Protoss did in 2022-2023.
DUHHHH. Bly failed his cheeses and you expect the rank 50 player to win Vs rank 2? 😂
Far out I love Bly!
Just curious , since serral doing is military service are they just not allowed to play in general or just can’t put in same about hours to play ?
Haven't been in the military and its different country to country but I suspect you don't have access to a computer as you are effectively in training full time even during the evening
There is some free time (especially after basic training) most evenings, during which you can get a permission to go as you please, as long as you return before the curfew. People also might get extra time off if they are competive in sports. I have no idea if esports counts though. It depends on a lot on his service branch/ how far away from the armybase he lives if he is going to be able to continue training or not if he is not granted those priviledges as a pro-athlete.
1:03:15 Morty we need more bases
Bly should have ended his "cheese" with swarm host nydus. I feel like both later games were perfect situation for that. All the same upgrades he already had
i havent kept up with SC2 but i remember Zerg being the end all be all, top the charts in everything race. things really have changed. Terran used to be the bottom tier.
to beat turtle u have to attack 3+ locations at once
snipe should take longer making them more vulnerable instead of being able to snipe and still somehow kite back
Third! Can you do some more Scion custom races casts? I really like them :D
In game 2, if Zerg could trade even for a while and split map after mining out so much of the expo during the contain, there would be a chance. But Terran trades insanely💀
Anyone here miss the eric opener ?, eric opener into random queen creep drop on the map
Seems like any Zerg that is not Serral just don't want to tough casters, same as Terrans not using Raven.
swarm hosts would've made Bly more winning potential if he deployed them on ~8th minute in both games 2 and 3. if you go cheese you should as well produce swarm hosts.
i have seen this match like 10 days ago :(
Clan cLem Liquid Mlem
I love watching ghost snipes etc, but i'm starting to feel like ghosts are a bit op.
How do you beat that as zerg?
"#1 TeRRaN" 😂 nice gaslight..
Could they at least get better static defenses for the zerg?
If Clem rank no.1 then Serral must has rank 0.5 🤪
the pros dont know what a Raven is and dont know what a nydus is
Let’s go Clem! (I’m a Clem glazer 😅)
i wish i could torn of the musik xD
annyone in his 30s having same issue like me I have a lot of games but I cant play anything for more than 10 minutes before I am bored, I oftend start games and watch the menu do something in inventory and get kinda bored, but I used to play 10h a day back then without getting bored am I getting old or are games nowdays this bad?
Could be your tastes are changing, could be a touch of depression (loss of interest in things you once enjoyed.)
As someone who hasn't played in a very long time I know my opinion means fuck all but it seems like snipe is just a massive problem with the tvz matchup. It counters every tier 3 unit for zerg. And if the ghost snipes a couple overseers than the zerg can't even hit the ghost with cloak. Seems like zerg has to get super far ahead to win against terran.
Feels like everything late game zerg has late game Terran beats? Ultras feel like the weakest of the late game units.
fun fact, bly is the handsomest sc2 in history
Its getting so tiresome to see Terran get free wins as soon as they transition into Ghost-Lib. The problem with Zerg late game units is that they are all hyperspecialized and will dominate but only when mass produced, which is thematic but also very poor game design.
Best example of this is the corruptor: it will dominate the air when produced in mass, but once the aerial fight is won, zerg will find itself floating 40-50 supply in useless units. That doesnt happen with a carrier or a BC, which can be used in more various situations to both assault bases as well as armies. Its the same for broodlords which will do their job against ground units, but will be decimated by 3 random vikings. As a zerg, you need to have the perfect amount of units to counter exactly the number targets you will be facing -- units which are inherently made to be non-cost effective. Oh, and you need to decide that ration with limited information because the fog of war is a thing and Zerg has the worst scouting capabilities of all 3 races.
Meanwhile you have the ghost, which counters every single zerg unit cost efficiently (including banelings, because for some reason, even though they wear what basically amounts to futuristic spandex, they arent considered light units and have more HP than marines wearing body armor), while also countering casters AND can cut the HP of any toss army in half with the press of a button -- ow, and if they do get caught, you can just cloak right after sniping any detection. Brilliant design.
The only thing I dislike about lowko's vids is the fact that he keeps calling queens "Brenda" and that's my ex name 🥴
one buried roach
So what DOES Bly do here to come out on top?
It’s absurd hearing that Clem is 21… I’ve played this game for years, and I’m also 21. I’m probably about 1/50th as good as Clem.
WHY IS SERRAL ON A MILITARY SERVICE! 😀
Блай красавчик как всегда.
B-but Zerg is so broken!! My terran army is so bad, I dont know how to click snipe properly and insta win against everything zerg can do 😭😭😭😭😭
Why are thoses queen called brenda ?
It’s a lowko joke , he’s been calling queens that forever he gives them old lady names when there more then one
Its because Lowko's friend and commentator WinterSC loves to pretend sc2 queens are old grannies because they use to be able to fly in broodwar now they are grounded and crippled unless they are on creep, also they use sowing needles for their attack.
welcome to the greatful dead screen kids
as amazing as Clem is, the ghost is just broken. It shouldn't be able to counter everything tier 3
'Post Youth' fact: If you were born before December 26th, 1991, then you were alive when the Soviet Union existed.
zerg is supposed to be the , idk what im doing . ill make a bunch of units ( that are not that great ) and run run run race . they tried to make them like toss . zerg is not toss there zerg .
the whole game is outa blance when zerg has consontration strength units like , brood lord and courruptor , roach ect , sorta lurker . why would you nerf bayling , they are 50% a waste to start ? ppls dont undertands the trifecta of sc . glass cannon vs , low and slow , vs spam central .
the whole mystic of SC was beating hoards of zerg units . and then every once and a while Raynor and Zeratul get in a fight over bo peep .
Terran so boringly OP
Can confirm. Am post-youth
Terran and Protoss can mathematically outproduce zerg. That is indisputably wrong and therefor the game has been unbalanced from the very onset of wings of liberty.
clem #1 terran?omfg
No contest.