Should You HEALBOT Your FEEDING Tank? | Overwatch 2 Spectating
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- Опубліковано 14 тра 2024
- Today we have a Plat Kiriko who was having a great game and was 4 minutes ahead of the enemy team. Why did things fall apart and should they have started healbotting to help the Tank?
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The worst mistake this kiri made was letting their braindead tank dictate their play. You can see around 2nd point defense when the panic sets in and they just start following the tank around and healbotting. Which is crazy because the results would have largely been the same or even better if they traded their rein every fight and focused on dps and pocketing cass and illari instead.
Thank you for reviewing my game Emongg, this really helped, I've been practicing my kunai aim since that game and i hope eventually i could get a where are they now
Your a trash support person payer gtfo overwatch and play Roblox trash
Just remember, as much as many streamers act on UA-cam ..this is a game for fun.
@@skindred1888pretty sure we all know that, and aren’t playing for torture 😂 but it’s not bad to want to improve either. That’s part of the fun! Getting better over time 😊
@@skindred1888 yea and its fun watching him be trash hahahaha
@@Not2sure you okay ?
Funny thing: Kiriko and Zen have exactly the same projectile speed and radius, but the adjustment from Zen to Kiriko is not easy at all. Having made that adjustment myself (former Zen main branching out), I believe the difficulty comes from rhythm. Zen can get a lot of good value by just spamming with decent tracking/leading. But Kiriko's slower rate of fire requires you to kind of "metronome" back and forth across your target -- something you might eventually find yourself doing instinctively, as I did. Some kind of weird middle ground between spam and flick aiming.
Hello, me from the video here, I did not know kiri and zen had the same projectile stats, but it just felt so off and now I understand. I got so used to zen with his volleys and discorded-body shots that adjusting to kiriko who focuses on headshots with much slower attack speed was very difficult.
@@TheRottenLemon Tbh you should be aiming for headshots with Zen as well. They're surprisingly easy to land with a little practice (not every shot, obviously, but enough) and do bookoo damage.
Even though they are the same speed, to me Kiriko’s kunais feel a lot slower and I can’t hit anything to save my life (literally) whereas with Zen I’m a bit better at hitting my shots and it feels like I’m making an impact. Are the projectiles the same size? That might be my issue
Completely agree. Kiriko's kunai feels rhythmic, I find myself doing circles or 8s subconsciously with my mouse to keep track of fire rate, and I've noticed others doing it.
I may be wrong, but I believe kunai also has a bit of delay from when you press, which is why It feels slower. I main ana and I felt like kunai aiming was similar to sleep dart instead of other projectiles in the game.
had no clue that zen and kiri have the same proj speed. This is good to know. I play zen quite a bit but when the other supp isn't playing a main healer i have been practicing kiri. Thanks for the info! I'll be sure to remember this
19:35 and in this exact moment, you can see the thought bubble above the tanks head. It says "my team is trash. I'm the only good player. Watch me 1v5 the enemy team."
13:33 I think what happened was exactly what Emongg mentioned. When playing attack, we try to be more aggressive and when defending, we try to be more defensive.
the only time i healbot a feeding tank is if i need ult-charge quick, other then that i'll let them feed and try 2 support the DPS enough that they make up for the feeder
I had an orisa once who just kept walking at a mauga and there mauga was absolutely shredding our team, it took me, our Ana, and our echo turning into an Illari to win one (1) fight and keep the orisa from dying. She was at a sliver of health for the whole fight. She was nice tho and seemed very grateful, didn’t blame us at all in the chat and said “thank you you beautiful supports”
As a rein main myself, I agree that this rein had great aggression, but there’s a fine line when too much aggression gets you killed. Can you play aggressive and be defensive? Yes. But pushing deep into the backline won’t do that for you, and utilizing cover helps your healers so they don’t have to default to healbotting. Thank you as always for the incredibly helpful VOD’s emongg!! They’re incredible tools to learn from and to teach with! ❤
Rein was pretty good in his shield management but he also losd a lot and over didn't deny space taking instead mainly pushed for taking space. It left hik needing a lot of heals and not a lot of great opportunities to get it. It's okay to fall back and start swinging the corner while hiding your hitbox
@@group555_ agreed!
I remember on season 1 I was still learning Support, there was a feeding tank that blame me for swap and said I should stay on Mercy to rez him. This kinda tank is beyond saving, he’s here to force 50/50
I was probably that poor dumb confused tank.. Terribly in need of a purpose at 8am n was not vibbing.. doesn't make it right.. what I mean is sorry.. 😆
So many tanks these days complaining that they need more heals but their positioning and lack of game sense is what keeps killing them.
I had my tank yell "support diff" while going for deep flanks and spawn camps alone on Busan.
I kept asking for them to join us and go in as a group. Nope. My fault for not healing enough. 🙃
I absolutely HATE when teammates say this. And they always say “ you could’ve peeled for me “ like a 2v5 is a good idea too…
your videos are always so educational and entertaining, thanks for making the content you do
Tbh I Suzu the walls next to me too trying to save myself when Dva dives me 😂
Other teams Dva went beast mode at the end, if their tank was just aware and peeled it could have been a win :(
Crazy that they played decent until the final push on defense. Just being out of position one time and having to self suzu led to the entire team losing the point. If they had that suzu 3 seconds later they would’ve cleansed the EMP and full held and game would’ve ended there.
Wild to think a cooldown of this magnitude has such swing potential. Definitely a game-making support hero.
I would love to see a vid on basic positioning spots and angles team can have
Tank literally raged at the end broke every key but W
Playing Support with a feeding Rein is it's own playstyle.
5:55 also Suzu heals DOUBLE when it cleanses something, the Suzu would almost full heal the Cool Cassidy
Attention metal rank players:
When your tank plays like this, don’t heal bot it. Have a useless tank, and go make plays instead. Healing loses games, and the best supports can recognize when it’s time to start making the plays for the team. In these ranks, that time is more or less always. Go take picks, heal your squishies until they’re not in danger of dying while your tank makes space through his feeds, win the game.
7:38 when they ulted and got ko’d right after was funny af
when i play support i like to tell either my tank to pocket the dps or the dps to pocket the tank and for whatever reason people really respond to that to your point of trying to get your team to push with your aggro tank, its just as simple as go where your teammates go and look to see who your teammates are fighting and shoot them
The difference between Zen and Kiri; Zen throws refrigerators and Kiri throws needles.
watching flats and emongg made me a better player fs (i’m only
in metal ranks btw). i always think of what IM doing to make my team lose, and usually there’s a lot of things i can do differently.
this! and I think people can get waaaaaay too caught up in the whole "why did my team lose this specific game?" instead of taking a more long term approach and thinking "what am I doing consistently that is reducing the chances that any team I am on will win? what do I need to do in order to be someone any player wants on their team and that no one wants to have to play against?"
because those are two separate questions. "why did my team lose this game?" is useless because you are only 20% of the problem. remember, a team game means you win and lose as a team. but "what can I do to increase the chance that any team I am on will win?" means you are 100% the problem and 100% the solution. the problem is entirely within your power to solve.
17:47 idk about them, but I usually switch Hog just because I know I can get value with him if I’m not doing well on anyone else
But I agree with chat. For someone that’s been hard stuck Silver-Gold, you can definitely tell by the vibes WHY a teammate switched.
I'm not the best support by any means but I find that sometimes you just have to accept that you can't keep your tank up. Rather than trying to outheal all the damage they're taking, switching focus to damage and playing zen or trying to offput their healing with ana grenades might be better.
As a Kiri main, someone told me I was too damage-focused and it stuck with me so now I've just gone into healbotting 😭
That's the issue I have playing supports. Everyone wants you only to just be a heal bot. But to turn the game around you gotta make plays to. I play mercy and plat in console. I just ult and go battle mercy and I would actually turn fights around and win. Usually my team doesn't know about flanking and killing the enemy supports so I just say f it and do it myself.
I get so pissed when I'm healing someone, they pause to look at me then spam I need healing even when they have 90% health. Like I gotta heal other people too.
One of the problem I see that during 3-3 score no one thought to flank soujourn
Lifeweaver can get some control back on a tank that is hell bent on deep diving constantly regardless of their health or numbers
That tank was still trying to play goats
Q: How to get your team to stop staggering
emong: "I'll tell you when I figure that out"
me: im the one stagrinh, entirely focused on that positive K/D( sure I died 27 times but I got 28 kills) my delusion 'so it all evens out'
Being obsessed with a positive K/D is a result of previous games I've played
if you have more kills than the enemy you're winning, mostly because they were all like death matches
In OW a positive KD isn't the goal, you want a high ratio of picks to deaths. I hate how assists are counted, but you want to aim for a KDA of 1.5 (maybe 1.75 since assists are counted strangely).
That's (kills + (assists / 2)) / deaths
How do I submit a vod
So you're saying there's a chance!
Overwatch desperately needs an additional stat that shows "healing received" to give the scoreboard better perspective.
during the second round, I saw so many opportunities for a suzu to deny the enemy sombra from getting value. so i think this person needs to work on understanding what they need to use suzu for and when they don't need to save it. at the start of round 2, their teammate died to sombra. that's on the kiriko, not the teammate or anyone else. there was no reason not to suzu there. now, if this was further into the round when you know they have ultimates and you want to cleanse the EMP or, assuming they had one, the illari ult? that's a different story. that's a situation where you need to learn to make that judgment call - is keeping a squishy alive with suzu worth not having suzu for a status effect ultimate? sometimes yes, sometimes no. it will depend.
you can get so much value as a support and as kiriko specifically just by being a reliable defense against sombra. your team can get a lot more done if they can tell you will protect them from the sombra. sometimes the most valuable thing you can do all game is just suzu whoever gets hit by virus and throw kunai in sombra's direction until they're forced to retreat.
also, re: feeding tanks. a tank dying a lot is not inherently feeding. a tank dying first a lot is not inherently feeding. it only becomes feeding when the only thing that was actually accomplished was feeding the enemies ult charge.
so, if your tank is super aggressive and dying a lot, your next move needs to be figuring out how you can make their death worth something. ask yourself, "if my tank goes in and dies, what can i do to turn that into an aggressive yet effective play?" sometimes this will mean playing equally aggressive. sometimes this will mean playing split from your tank so the enemy team has to choose between dealing with you and dealing with your tank. a "feeding" tank can be a very effective distraction and can be a great set up for really effective off angles.
the second you get stuck on what your teammate did or didn't do is the second you stop asking yourself what YOU could have and should have done differently.
also, you're in plat, why are you on low ground on first point numbani? you don't have to stand on low ground just because the tank is. play on high ground. a good support knows how to safely draw attention to themself to divert attention away from their teammates. if you are on high ground, the enemies have to shoot at you or your tank. if they shoot you, you can escape easily to safety. if they shoot the tank, you can just heal them. high ground is also easy cover. just walk away from the edge to get cover! being on high ground means you have control over that advantage and denies enemies an easy opportunity to claim that advantage for themselves.
never drop from high ground JUST because your tank or another teammate is on low ground. there are many reasons to drop, but this situation was not a situation where it was necessary or helpful to drop from high ground.
10:46 you should have tp'd to your team about 3-4 seconds ago. now you are too far away from them and your healing will take a year and a half to get there. yeah you're pretty safe from the enemies right now, but are you in a good position to help your team? good positioning is more than "be behind/near cover"
your positioning seems so dependent on your tank. if they're on low ground, you want to be on low ground, and then you end up needing to burn a cooldown to get back to high ground when you could have just healed your tank from high ground.
your world does not revolve around your tank in the way your positioning suggests. yes, you are going to be the one providing the majority of the tank's healing, but your job is more than that. you still have responsibilities to the rest of your team and as an adversary to the enemy team.
you need to readjust your understanding of what good positioning is. good positioning is a position that has or gives you
1. cover that you can duck behind to hide from damage
AND
2. the ability to effectively help your team based on your hero's range and abilities (i.e., ana will position in a different spot than Moira)
AND
3. the ability to do stuff to the enemy (damage, utility, etc)
AND
4. offers an escape route to safety so you can rotate if needed, i.e., there is a safe way to go from where you're currently positioned to another good position. basically, there should be a safe way to get from where you are to both a more aggressive position and to fall back away from enemy spawn/closer to your spawn
AND
5. is easily accessible to your allies so they can come help you if needed (and easy access will depend on the heroes on your team)
Thanks for the helpful tips. Especially the one about positioning being reliant on the tank. I find in some games I work around my teams playstyle not the best playstyle for the fight. I'll work on that now. The other tip about positioning was also useful. I knew good positioning meant cover, range and a safe escape but the other tips are also nice to know.
@@Demonboy238 don't get me wrong, you can play at the same PACE as your team (playing more aggressive if they are, playing more defensively if they are) but in my mind that's different than playing in a disadvantageous way just because your team/a teammate is. if you're playing a support who can do their job from a bit of a distance, you're going to want to do that most of the time because it makes it harder on the enemies to wipe your whole team. if your tank wants to play on low ground or NEEDS to be on low ground to contest, playing on low ground yourself makes it easy for the enemy team to do what they want to do.
you and your team have things you want and need to do, so you want to play to your advantage, but you also want to put your enemy in a position where they're at a disadvantage. sometimes those things will be the same things, other times, you will have to do one thing while your teammates do another. you can play separately while still playing together!
@@Demonboy238 good positioning is really hard to learn! especially as a support imo because you don't just have to worry about the enemy team, you have to worry about everyone and be able to help as many people as possible. and sometimes you need to play in a more risky (calculated risk) position because the fight is so fucking scuffed and everyone is everywhere and you have to choose between absolute safety and helping your team win. it's really hard. but thinking about "where can I position that will let me help my team, distract or be aggressive to the enemy, and not immediately die?" has really helped me personally. over time as you focus on it, it will become much more natural and feel easier! you got this :) always focus on what you need to do in order to give your team even a 1% higher chance of winning and not what your team chooses to do with that 1% higher chance 😂
where can we watch this perfect positioning gameplay?
Yeah the Kiriko gameplay was far from perfect but with a tank like that no matter what they do it's gonna be... very very hard
Is this the first time it was actually the teammates fault
uk what i find funny in ow...ppl tend to go hog because they're getting "no heals" n goes support diff but then they finally start using cover to take a breather n sups get ticked off n either heal them more or start dpsing....my point is i no im a useless dps but dont forget us :'(
I don’t understand why people need to point out how much healing they do in a game, does 20k make you one of the best?
I mean... if the support doesn't heal that's an issue. "DPS Moira" comes to mind. Similarly, all heals and little damage outside of a support like Mercy is also considered bad.
But it's never about one individual stat.
No it does not make you great, if you have much Healing or DMG, OR Medigation etc.
But Overwatch makes it Sooo Hard to tell you whats right and not...
Our instincts tell us, Big Numbers = Big Win but the Reality is Big Numbers = ≠ Big Wins...
It only Says you, that you should have many Ults AND that Playstyle that your Team is doing...
Its just Very difficult... And only if your "Higher" Ranked and Played Many Many Hours, you know what Heros Stats is REALLY important... I feel like we are missing the Ability to see the Extra Stats like Sleeps/Saves/Stuns etc. from other Players, and from all Heros...
This would give us the Option to see Really what is better... But this is just my Opinion
I mean theres definitely a line of healing that makes it more or less acceptable if you only healed like 2k in 8 minutes then theres kind of an issue but at the same time if they have like 20 elims that that more or less has balanced it out as they are contributing something dependent on their deaths
While it's true that intangibles don't show up in the stat sheet, the amount of scrutiny one can receive from their own teammates, doesn't show up in the stats as well.
My point is, there's a reason why this behavior exists; majority of the time, it's the blame-game happening with randoms. Obviously, the EASIEST way to blame a loss to someone: pointing out their stat line.
It's a coping mechanism for people who can't take accountability, that leads to the behavior of the stat-mongers. Can you completely blame em?
If you truly cannot understand it, then good for you tbh. 🤷🏻♂️
I blame the lizard brain 😭😭
I, a rein main in bronze but i can definetly say this wasn't good at all.
For me playing rein with mercy is one of the best combos cause mercy has one of the best movements of all supports imo.
So i can go aggressive and defensiv with my mercy and she will still be able to heal the team more than enough.
So i as a support (i have to claim i'm not too good at support) but i would have just swapped to mercy because of her big healing and movemenz abilities
you will remain in bronze if you think a pocket mercy will keep you up.
@@_samanthaaaa. well I never said that I want a pocket mercy to keep me alive, but I just said that (for me) mercy is one of the best combod with rein
Sry for the misunderstanding :)
Man, I hate when I try to make space in gold, I just go poof to the End. Not liking Gold players not following up a little but it also a me issue. Mainly a me issue.
honestly, timing and taking things more slowly will probably help you a lot! if you're falling over whenever you try to make space, you might just be trying to make too much space at once. try breaking maps down into smaller chunks and only worry about getting from one corner/piece of cover to the next. use your cooldowns to get from point A to point B, and then do a little poke damage while you wait for your cooldowns to come back up and while you get healed up. then get from point B to point C.
also, you don't have to go all in and commit to a play on your first attempt. feel it out. see what the other team does when you push a little bit and then use a movement ability to get out. then reassess, wait for your cooldowns, and then push a little further.
the best tanks I've ever played with as a diamond support are the tanks who don't rush and who play purposefully. they have a clear plan for what they want to do and they have a clear plan for how to get out if the first plan doesn't go as intended.
They need to stop ALWAYS using 5 healing ofuda. Use 3 when 3 is needed and use the downtime to do damage.
That hog swap is the “hey I’m going to practice my lesser played heroes to get practice in cuz I know my team is going to win this, GGEZ” swap.
Tank fed the whole time, Kiri didn’t do enough dmg, AND Kiri threw at the end because you never know what a well timed Suzu can do.
Domino effect
Heal bot kirikos make me sad. If you want to heal bot there are better options and you waste LOT of damage
Imo...ride or die lol. If tank dies you're not winning the fight anyway. You might as well go die with them so you dont get scattered.
How is their tank plat? I havent seen then this bad in silver
yes.
I love how people made the term "heal botting" so they can continue to bitch about supports even when they do everything right
Imagine saying your Soldier is "damage botting" though, it's the same exact thing
Healbotting doesn't work tho, the Kiri was applying zero pressure cuz no damage was being done
Spacebotting tanks 🤣
their tank is every tank in bronze thats why im hard stuck istg
Everyone is throwing tbh. Dps dying first every other fight, illari shooting two ults in a row into DM, kiriko throwing Q away 3v5. Tank just happened to throw the last couple of fights the hardest.
I main ana and I win a lot of games with 5-8k.dmg and 7-10k heals
I was the tank this game.. clearly played like shit after swapping off rein who is the only character I really play other then Winston. I only swapped off him because my teammates were telling me too and well as u can see I don’t play ram or road at all lol. Those swaps were at the end of the game when the entire team was already tilted and that illari was flaming me so I swapped to try and make the team happy. And uhh are u really a rein main if u don’t feed once per game😅. Have since muted tc and auto select rein every game and have climbed out of the hole that is plat.
if you only play rein the way you played in this vod, i feel so sorry for your supports.
I wanna submit genji gameplay cus I wanna improve but I don’t wanna get flamed esp cus I’m not try Harding on genji and I play him my own way. I carry most games but I know there’s fs places I can improve I just don’t want everyone to flame me for aim
The Tank lost the game for them plain and simple.
Where the legend at??
Am I the only one who feels like it is always one of the dps who fucks the game? Like...all the games when we get really diffed there is this dps player who has like 3-9 KD and 2000 damage in 8 minutes like...dude...it is not even about the tank. It is about you wanting to play dps because "it is most fun" and not being able to hit shit.
Wdymmm Emongg I’m sending plenty of tank vods pff.
It’s because they’re not interesting enough? Oh. So the legendary Ball stall was my fall all in all I need to hall my gall?
Yes this tank lost the game for them
Defence is easier than attack. People should stop playing so cautious on defence. Holding the line only makes you very predictable. Just to be clear, I dont mean play like the tank in this video.
I rather have cautious than a Tank pushing in a 1v5 especially on DEFENSE
@@Alex_Aramayo No matter how big of a disclaimer you're adding, the average internet user has still too low of an IQ to read it.
I find that being overly aggressive on defense is unnecessarily risky. I don't take risks on defense that I would on attack. When I do go for those risky plays on defense it usually costs us the point. Maintaining map control is very advantageous. I have won games playing passively, holding my position, and making it difficult for the enemy to gain map control. However, on attack you don't have the map control and need to push aggressive plays sometimes.
steaming hot take
No views in 30 seconds bro fell off
Very original
@@Wusyaname_ I'm just salting people lol I don't do this garbage normally
I’m diamond on zen and Lucio and refuse to heal just to show that you can be a consistent diamond supprt without the need of healing . I havnt even dropped to plat in like 3 seasons
this has big "ignore the fact I don't play more than ten ranked games every season" energy
@@sethescope my god you sound gay asf