Babies Anointed In The Womb | Jerry-NY | Talk Heathen 05.10
Вставка
- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
- SHOW TIME-STAMPS
00:00 Intro
03:42 Robin-DC | God Needs To Exist Necessarily
29:41 Jerry-NY | Babies Anointed In The Womb
56:05 Jose-CA | May Have Had Dream From God
1:10:01 Robert-MA | What Is Positive Atheism?
1:17:16 Justin-NJ | Traits Show Common Creator
1:28:57 Tonloc-TX | Another Ontological Argument
1:43:34 Outro
SHOW NOTES
Greetings Heathens! In today’s episode of Talk Heathen, Eric Murphy and Vi La Bianca will be taking your calls on this wonderful Sunday!
The first caller of today’s show is Robin from DC. Robin wants to know if atheism is rational. Unfortunately, the caller’s definition is entirely circular as in a world where a god necessarily exists, a necessary god exists. Before you can begin applying attributes to a god, you first have to demonstrate that the god exists and that it is necessary rather than just assert it.
Next up is Jerry from NY who believes that some people are born believers and some are born non-believers. The caller claims that God knows everyone who will be born and pre-determines whether a person is a believer or not while they are still in the womb. Before reaching this conclusion, there are a lot of underlying assumptions being made without evidence backing them up.
Jose from CA is calling to talk about a dream where he quoted Daniel 2-3 and believes that this was a sign from God. While the occurrence of the dream is interesting, we shouldn’t confuse what we dream with reality, nor should we assume that a particular dream is any more special than any other.
Up next is Robert from MA who is wondering what positive Atheism is and how atheists can do a better job of promoting it. The goal of positive atheism is to create a diverse and welcoming community that works to make the world a better place while combating the assumption that atheists and non-believers can’t have said communities.
Justin from NJ asks if the fact that all humans and animals share a common ancestor could be used as evidence of a common creator. While the caller is willing to accept that creation could have happened billions of years ago, it seems they are picking and choosing which parts of the book to take literally or which to take metaphorically.
Tonloc from Texas wants to continue the call with Robin from earlier and make some clarifications on their point. The reason why we can attribute traits to a fictional character is that fiction exists and we can build upon it. We cannot begin to apply traits such as “necessary” onto a god until the god is first demonstrated to exist. Also, please consider updating your script so that when you are asked a clarifying question you don’t have to dodge five times.
That’s our show for this week, thank you everyone for watching! Please continue to be safe in your area, wear your mask. The world is better with you in it. We love you all with our uncut hearts and are sending all the rainbow void bubbles we have in stock your way. See you next week!
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WHAT IS TALK HEATHEN?
Talk Heathen is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared toward long-form and on-going dialogue with theists & atheists about religion, theism, & secularism. Talk Heathen is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
Talk Heathen is filmed in front of a live studio audience every week at the Freethought Library of the Atheist Community of Austin.
The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop & support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing & friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of government-religion separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists & to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
CONTACTS & SOCIAL MEDIA
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Twitter:
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NOTES
The views and opinions expressed by hosts, guests, or callers are their own and not necessarily representative of the Atheist Community of Austin.
Opening Theme:
Ethan Meixsell "Takeoff"
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Copyright © 2021 Atheist Community of Austin. All rights reserved.
Babies do not 'believe' until they are taught to believe.
Agree completely. Sadly I took a long time to break free again.
Vi - "Don't kink shame"
I loved it!
The condescension is strong in this one. The holy spirit reassures Jerry that he's absolutely correct about other people's salvation potential AND their future destinations... which do not require an "up" escalator.
This is why no one wants to sit next to Christians on a three-hour flight.
Or want to spend an eternity with them. Imagine going to heaven and meeting televangelists, especially Copeland? Is that heaven or hell? How can you tell?
@@danhemming6624
How can you tell ? How can you not tell ? Its Copeland you're talking about ! Anywhere Copeland stays becomes hell, doesn't matter what it actually is or used to be or supposed to be.
@@SC-zq6cu but there's plenty of people praying for him preying on them. If they believe he's going to heaven, doesn't that mean that he's going to their version of heaven? If so does that mean that there are many different heavens? Religion allows for 1 heaven according to their faith/religion. So if I end up with religious people, is this heaven (yes for them) or is this hell (yes for me)? If so I would rather just not go but just die.
@@spacewizard69 I'll ride on the wing before sitting next to a born-again.
"Sounded like you got hit by a bible." Gotta love me some Vi!!
Jerry just gave me the perfect god to not care about at all. If it exists this means it planned for the abuse I went through, knew what would happen to me as a result, and at the end I get the end that actually has been a more comforting idea for me.
In the immortal words of Professor Hulk, "I see this as an absolute win!"
"Born a believer"...
I've heard it all now...
Theists have so many fucked up beliefs to push on people that it may just be time for me to tune out, focus on my college work and just listen to music.
Thanks Jerry.
Well if you’re not using critical thinking for one particular thing - you could unnoticeably move other things into the same category until one day all of your worldview is dodging criticism and going into absurdity…
I think there must be a terrible connection because Jerry seems to either entirely miss questions, or answers ones that were never asked. Sounds like he’s talking to himself, half the time.
Yeah, Jerry isn't listening to them, he's just going on a loop.
That's because he was using his spiritual discernment to hear what he wanted to hear and then respond to that instead
That's because he isn't "listening" at ALL. He might be hearing a few of the words but he is in NO WAY thinking about them - hell most of the time he's still talking while they're talking so he's not hearing ANYTHING they're saying. He doesn't want to hear, he "knows" he's right and that's just that so why bother listening?
"It sounded like he got hit by a bible"
Hit by. Struck by. A smooooth bible
"My job is to keep you both in the faith."
What a sad, deluded man.
The most deluded part is that he believes in predestination. If he really believes that then he has no more control over the hosts' beliefs than they do.
@@miconis123
Even this conversation was destined to happen.
@@PacesIII Everything is destined. There's no reason to make any choice about anything since it's already been decided. I didn't choose to reply, it just happened.
@@miconis123
Exactly. I can do this all day. Or can I? Dog only knows.
You are being to nice
I don't think the caller was really paying attention, it sounded like he was just waiting to respond
That's par for the course with theists.
Definitely par for the course but I agree this caller seems particularly uninterested in the hosts’ responses by the way he rarely attempts to answer a question and just restates what he just said, almost as if he’s talking to himself.
I've noticed that this behavior is most common with older people. Either they don't care, (then why call?) Or they aren't grasping certain concepts. They respond as if the hosts said something completely different.
@@Bailer86 I agree. Sometimes I wonder if they’re too proud to say they can’t hear properly because of their age and have just gotten use to blagging their way through the conversation.
@@Bailer86
Its cuz' they want to preach. As people grow older a lot of experience accumulates in their minds. The more one knows the harder it becomes to find new stuff around them. The more one knows the more material they have to construct mental models and the more mental models they construct. The more mental models they construct the more seeming explanations they have. The more explanations they have the less they feel the need to learn new stuff. This eventually leads to a feeling of "I know everything" and this feeling leads to a need to share this supposed "knowledge of everything" to the less fortunate that don't have it, partly from a feeling of genuinely wanting to help and partly from a need to gloat.
This caller is confusing the Holy Spirit with methylated spirit. Methylated spirts made me fly!!!! through my windshield.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Suuuuu
P
Eeeer
MaaaaaaN!!!
That was awesome Black King 😂
I’m gunna get on my knees and take Jesus all night long! I Love being filled up by Jesus.
That conversation felt like swimming upstream... while also being a paraplegic.
It can be a hard concept to grasp that our parents lied to us about god and religion but really when you think about it they were lied to as well and so on.
The average person 100 years ago didn't really have access to virtually unlimited amount of information that we do in modern times.
Well it’s not being lied to if the person truly believes it, right!?
You would gave to go back to the early/mid 1800's to find religion in my family. Both sides (Mother and Father) were Atheists. I haven't met anybody within my family (other than me) who went to church off my own back (because sitting through 1 hr+ of nonsense for food was worth it to me). We were brought up without Religion at all. Religion was something we weren't meant to concern ourselves with until we were of an age where we could form logical, critical thinking. To then make up our minds if it's something we felt would/could be worth our while or be relevant in our lives. Though they sent us to Religious Schools for an education, religion still didn't stick. I am 1 of 8 children, nobody and there's a lot of us with kids of their own, who have kids of their own (I have no kids), still Atheism holds straight and true. So God lucked out. You would think that 1 person in 30+ people in a family would become religious if God was real. Nobody would care (other than for their mental wellbeing) about it.
Why then would it be sooooooooo much different if we were all religious and 1 turned Atheist.
Why is there such a disparaging difference? Religion seems to be an irrational response to the unknown.
Don't know about you personally, but my parents weren't lying when they told me there was a god. Lying is intended deceit. My parents, and most parents I think, believe to be true what they are telling their children, therefore it isn't a lie. Being wrong doesn't make you a liar!
@@martymaiden8499 True! But if you perpetuate the story, even though there are doubts (in the surrounding community) but don't say anything, keep perpetuating what you were told AND not informing those around you through your teaching/word that another hypothesis exists, then YOU are a Liar. Not giving people facts so that they can check out what others say, just a simple fact check, is Dishonest and you are a LIAR. It doesn't matter if its wrong, at least giving people a choice is what matters.
I the earlier days, the CLERGY were the only ones ALLOWED to have a bible. Not only that, but they said the mass in Latin and most probably didn't even follow it.
I applaud you guys for being incredibly patient. What a delusional person!
What a superb team. Like a scalpel in a rock steady hand.
I was never chosen by the Holy Spirit. I’m one of the lucky ones. You other suckers were anointed!
I'm glad I'm not the only one who kept thinking that!
My anointing knows no bounds.
@@ross-carlson being anointed, that's like being righteously indignant right?
@@ross-carlson but like annoyed....
So as an atheist, I was ASSIGNED a spot for everlasting damnation? First of all, that is a "god" I want no part of, as he is actually worse than Kim Jong Un, and second, how DARE you or anyone say that about others? That takes some real balls sir. I'm truly sorry about your indoctrination/delusions, but none of it gives you a pass to judge others. Not ever.
The Calvinist branch of Christianity also believe in preordainment. You cannot get to heaven by good works or belief alone unless you are already on the list. Although of course, you CAN strike your own name OFF of the list by sinning. It's like the ultimate Pascal's Wager with those fucks!
Ocean front property in Arizona...
Don’t know why but that sounds like something I’d find funny, if only I understood the reference! I’m in the U.K. so maybe that’s why.
What does it mean?
Ok, I just looked on the map because I assumed Arizona might not even be on the coast…. 👍😂
@@DanielLee1 🤣😅😂
@@devaunplowman2327 🤤
@@DanielLee1
Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay.- JKM.
Being born without a soul and predestined for hell would actually explain a lot...
But if you have no soul, it wouldn't go to hell would it
@@iamanowl26 No, I think he even said/admitted that he's an annihilist.
This really messed with my head growing up because I never really believed, and was raised in Calvinism, so I was taught that I either had no soul or was created to go to hell.
Well there’s no reason to believe there’s a soul so the first option is really possible.
The hell part is kinda dubious not gonna lie…
The holy spirit comes upon you... I've definitely heard that enough today.
I just hate cleaning it up
2021 and we still have people with the mind set. Amazing.
Great job. Thanks for not getting mad at him. Great patience on both your parts.
It is amazing how many souls that are predestined end up in the US and other Christian nations, and so few in other nations.
"Money and G-d can't be compared". "No, because money exists". Wonderful.
If Jerry is so convinced that he is going to heaven no matter what, what's stopping him from offing himself ?
Suicide is a sin.
Of course, he could make it look like an accident.
@@kinglyzard Suicide might be a sin, but is skydiving with a very old parachute that has been kept in a damp, moth-infested warehouse that is frequented by sketchy characters with a penchant for knives and stabbing parachutes, not to mention packed by a blind person that really dislikes you a sin?
@Ysabel Love
I feel every ounce of your pain. I too suffer from mental illness, GAD, bipolar II and possibly even on the autism spectrum.
I have made a couple attempts myself. It's an awful place to be as an atheist, much less a theist.
I could only imagine how bad it would be with all that Catholic guilt and other mental clutter.
I hope you are getting guidance and counseling and not seeking answers in the wrong places.
Medical science has come up with some great new medications for mental and other illnesses.
The Church has come up with nothing but apologies and excuses.
Still waiting for the Holy Spirit to anoint me. Sometimes I think he never comes around my area . If the JWs can manage my area, why not the Holy Ghost ?
I desire The UNHOLY GHOST👻🤘
Dude, do you know how many keys he has to find a day? Just keep calm, he'll get around to you in about 2 thousand years, I mean 2 days.
Vi: "Hey, don't kink-shame!!!"
Me: 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I've noticed recently in the past couple of years that most of the callers won't even answer questions anymore
"Well, I believe that..."
Okay, cool. Why do you believe that?
"Well, I believe that..."
And why do you believe that?
"Well, I believe that..."
repeat ad nauseum.
I get it, Why is difficult but it's the only important part of Any of this.
I'm very tired of old men who think they've figured out the answers to life when they don't even know the questions...
Holy shit Eric! Are you drinking out of a vase?!
I recommend watching at x1.5
EVERYONE IS BORN A NONBELIEVER!
Jerry is a fool.
Everyone is born a clean slate.
One of us, one of us gooble gobble gooble gobble...one of us, one of us....
When I get that "No true follower" bullshit, I ask them what the difference is, and they invariably say that "No true follower would ever leave the faith." So my next question is "When does your god remove your ability to change your mind?"
Vi La nailed it (pun intended)!
Vi: "I don't have free will then? Cool."
Wait...does Vi believe in free will?
Christianty here continuing to sound like a bad D&D campaign.
"Born a Believer"? Does that mean there is no Free Will?
And u have just been put to bed Jerry 🤣
Just think about all the lucky babies born into Jehovah Witness families as according to their parents they are the only ones going to be saved and so it goes with Catholics, Mormons, Born Again Christians etc. Then think about all the lucky Muslim babies because their parents are going to tell them they are the only ones going to be saved and also the lucky Jewish babies because they are the ones going to be saved.
I had the woo woo holy spirit experience too. Whether it was real or not, it did nothing for my life or being. It may just be one of those unexplained things.
I felt it in church one night as we were all singing.
Everyone commented on how angelic I seemed afterwards.
But I get the same feeling when encountering anything of beauty.
A fish, a plant or a butterfly will push that same button.
And certain songs still make me cry.
@@kinglyzard Yes, things can have an effect on us.
The creation of souls: according to one source (not the Bible), that happens when our personality makes a moral choice in favor of truth, beauty, or goodness. Then that decision is picked up by our Thought Adjuster and is used in the creation of the soul. So God creates our souls, with our help...
Predestinated...
I have a magic wand.
Not everybody has got a magic wand.
I've been specially chosen to possess and care for a magic wand.
I have to use it wisely so as not to lose the trust that has been placed in me by Merlin.
There is no such thing as a benign religious belief.
I tend to agree.
“I hope this has been a stimulating conversation”
You cannot stimulate the brain of the brain dead.
Defenition of a “personal experience”: well, my brain made up some shit and I try to make you believe it.
Vi your amazing you make short hair look amazing I’ve always wanted an undercut style you both are incredable intalectuals and would love to talk with you guys if I could get a number
Does this guy believe in NPCs? Does he believe that anyone that isn't destined for heaven isn't a real person with soul or spirit?
That's so cool XD
We are all born atehist
Did god ask Mary about using her body for himself. Did she have a choice?
God did say in the old books, that he created evil, and he created good. He said do good, or do evil. I say we pay for our selfs of what we do. We all have opinions. I think we judge ourselves. If we don't destroy each other in the future. We might be doing okay. Lol
Predestined to be a believer? Why would God choose to create anyone as unbelievers? Sounds extremely unfair.
He’s assuming that he is superior to people he doesn’t accept. That makes him the evil.
This guy sounds very similar to Otangelo.
Isn't 'annointing' being dunked in water or having water thrown onto you. How can a foetus be annointed when in the uterus? The water would run off the body of the woman and not touch the foetus..
It would certainly be fair (for someone like myself) to say that Jesus and his cousin John were "anointed", well, before they entered the womb actually, but no one else comes to mind who would fit that distinction. It's my impression that celestial beings, not God necessarily, but above us spiritually, know which parents are likely to have children "of promise" e.g. Moses. But if this is a "nature" vs. "nurture" discussion, most "anointings" would take place after birth. Thus "nurture" would be the determining factor. But these are genes that foster greater spiritual tendencies for some. Which is a question of how much Adamic inheritance they have. [For those who understand that the biological uplifter Adam, came down to this planet when it already had people on it.]
But as for being born a theist or an atheist, children generally believe what their parents tell them to believe, at least for a time. From a psychological perspective, children are considered to be a "blank slate" at birth.
Now, if one understands that God is the dispenser of personality, God could certainly design a personality to be spiritually inclined, but I'm not sure that would be any different than what we have now.
This is a calvinistic approach which is totally contradiction to the original jewish fate. It contradicts the notion of free will of a person to repent and mend his ways.
"Scripturally speaking..." then goes on to talk about personal experience. Mate, even your language is delusional.
I learned a new word: predestinated
Nope
After being subjected to four unsolicited adverts, I've had enough. Goodbye.
If jerry has free will then why did the holy spirit use its magic on him to convince him of christianity? If you need the holy spirit in order to see the truth, why wouldn't the holy spirit expose itself to everyone so we all get a chance to believe? It isn't a free will choice if evidence is willfully being withheld from us. PICK A LANE JERRY
So fantasy is sensical I guess every fantasy book is sensible then
This is like Heroin to junkies. I see it as Scambaiting. Its for religion/supernatural Scammers, who look at you like Computer Tech Scammers look at the Elderly. If I talk fast enough and try to confuse you, I might sell you what i m selling. Having 100 things and trying to convince me 1 thing us right, hoping I believe the other 99 are real as well. If it fails at first, you keep going through the list hoping I'll believe eventually and then you can say that the 1 thing I agree with means that I agree with everything.
what is this caller smoking
Yes, I'm kinda stupid, but not this level of stupid
That’s called theist level stupid.
I think he's just very indoctrinated. Maybe not stupid, just so brainwashed he can't conceptualise reality.
Sad.
The stupid is strong with Jerry
Probably you are wrong. Really stupid people lack the ability to recognize their shortcomings. People with intelligence not only are aware but often lean to far the other way.
Cecil Brisley No. the theist is always wrong.
This is....bizarre
Surely, everyone is born an atheist??
Then your parents, school, church, Sunday school and even in some countries, the government, mess with your head, till you hopefully wake up?
Jerry here says he got his position from his "wisdom".
Okay, "wisdom" must be a new thing that's available from his dealer..lol.
Sounded like half the time Jerry was just making shit up on the fly. Also, predeterminism makes "testing your faith" completely pointless. If God's already determined that you will always believe no matter what, then there's absolutely no reason in constantly testing to see if you'll give it up since he already knows you won't.
Yet again, 'Soul' means breath or breathe. Genesis says that god 'breathed' into the mud man and THEN he became a 'living soul'.
*Yet again, 'Soul' means breath or breathe. Genesis says that god 'breathed' into the mud man and THEN he became a 'living soul'.* To b e clear, are you saying when you stop breathing there is no soul?
@@jns8393 Your life begins when you draw your first breath (soul enters the body), and ends when you draw your last breath(soul leaves the body).
@@dwendt44 Thanks. Where was the soul before it entered the body and how do you verifiably demonstrate a soul?
@@jns8393 Depends on how you define "soul". According to the dictionary, 'Soul' means breath; so it's just the movement of air. IF you are referring to some mystical supernatural 'thing', it can't be verified at all. ergo: it's imaginary.
@@dwendt44 Seems superfluous to have the word soul then.
Jerry's theology is the kind that, when I was raised as a Catholic, was ridiculed as obvious pagan superstition. I'm no longer religious in any sense, but this kind of stuff still sounds to me hilariously kooky, and incompatible with any serious version of Christianity.
According to Calvin all people were either chosen for salvation or reprobate before the earth was even created. And that selection is arbitrary. Since everyone will be evil God doesn't look ahead or determine it by any method it is completely arbitrary. As far as babies go, Calvin would say all saved babies go to heaven whether they are born, miscarried or aborted. The Calvinist logic is not all people are chosen so the same would be for babies but he doesn't want to say it like that. Were people born for hell. According to Calvin absolutely! And that for Gods glory to display his justice to the angels and to the elect for eternity. He saves some to show his mercy. How many will be saved. Who knows. The bible doesn't say. It just says a number that no man can count. I guess that is a lot. Lastly none of this is up to people. God draws those he will save to himself without fail. You can't say a pray or do anything yourself to be saved. Interestingly.. through Albert Mohler much of the SBC is now Calvinist. Also John Macarthur became a Calvinist.
If sex drugs n rock&roll are satanic , is that what hell is full of ? Then whats heavens appeal?
Licking Jesus big toe, floating on clouds, n singing hymnals ...
Am i missing something?
Who are you to say god is wrong for making me an atheist?
Man was given free will. I think you can figure it out for yourself. You got about 2000 religions. That you can fall into. And if I was Lucifer. I would not tell you God cast Me Out of Heaven. I might use that I am the son of God. So who knows. Keep your head. But I do believe in God. I'm not going to force it on anyone. It's either a pure heart, or not. It's up to man to seek.
Schroedinger's Christian until death!
This caller was born in looney land by his looney tune parents.
He sounds like God is unjust who created some humans without soul and destined to be unbelievers?
Is this guy for real I mean is he serious?
TLDR - Caller makes several nonsensical claims and has zero evidence to back them up.
Religion … always a new recipe to sell more god ,,
Huh??
hey. predestinated.
Once again, thank God I'm an atheist. This callers view of God is so sick that I want to throw up.
hmm. people have trouble explaining the trinity and here's another poser
- was jesus god before he died? one of my objections to resurrection is
if jesus is god then he's immortal, but the comeback is that jesus was
man until the resurrection, but does that mean there was no trinity
before jesus died? and, did jesus actually die? he could've faked the
whole thing, being god n all.
Talk Heathen need Matt more, the people on here are far to nice and let these nut cases ramble on to much , they need to ' hols their feet to the fire more '
The holy spirit can give you gifts? Just give me the 'water into wine' thingy and all's good. We're cool.
Hmmm, perceptive fellow... not everyone has a spirit would be true for anyone who never makes any good moral decisions. [like 45...]
you guys are not helping matters...you're just confusing religious people and when you confuse them you put them into a corner..and that's not helping them
The condescending of Jerry is very hard to take. 😒
Eric, I do think you did one thing really unfair here.
It seems like you jumped pretty hard on trying to ensure that Jerry claims that everything in the Bible is literal, and that isn't the case because not all Christians take the Bible literally. So you may have been straw manning his position on accident, which can kill the conversation.
I think Eric was trying to get him to think about all the claims in the bible and whether they were true or had he simply accepted them because of his 'healing' experience. From what Jerry said, it seemed to be the latter and he did not even answer if he had examined any of the claims.
@@jns8393 I get that, but not all Christian sects accept all of the Bible claims. I still think he jumped the gun in assuming he accepted them all rather than questioning if he did, and then jumping on them.
I do agree that Jerry hasn't put any real thought behind his beliefs though, or at least seems to not have.
3:20 Vi needlessly defending pregnant women. Calm down Vi and open your ears.
God created you to be holy and blameless before Him, to know Him as He knows you, to become a child of God, and to be co-heirs in His kingdom - He reveals His love for you personally in His invitation in John 3 16. Have a great day.
he doesnt exist...
So whither original sin?
@@mojobag01 if I understand your question correctly - we are all ‘sinners’ because we all have rejected God and His ways; however, the point of John 3 16 and the gospel message is that the penalty for that sin has been paid for in full by Jesus’ willing sacrifice and you are invited to receive that gift, along with forgiveness, salvation and everlasting life through the gospel message. You are created to be holy and blameless; whether you choose that path or not is up to you. Have a good day.
@@wwlib5390 So it's a catch 22. Summarily discarded.
@@wwlib5390 "sin has been paid for in full by Jesus’ willing sacrifice and you are invited to receive that gift"
If sin has been paid for in full already, then whether I recieve it or not is irrelevant.The payment has been made regardless of what I do or think.