creativity vs. writing to market, "the algorithm," & audience expectations // LET'S CHAT (UNEDITED)
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- This was terrifying, but here's what an unedited video looks like! I took the challenge while discussing the growing pressure to have a marketing plan for your book BEFORE you've even written it, and how "the algorithm" challenges creators.
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I loved this video Kate! It was kind of comforting to see how you tackled a challenge this way, cuz usually when you do some sort of writeaton or working on your running, its a "this is challenging but im excited about it" sort of thing, which is great and motivating, but this seemed to be "this is challenging and im really anxious about it but im doing it anyway" sort of video and i appreciate you so much for being vulnerable but still going through it! Thats my fave part of your personality and this whole channel, that you dont give up easily but in the most positive way, you always keep striving to do better no matter what you do, growing and improving yourself, while staying humble, which is really lovely to watch. I hope you're having a great day!
If I remember correctly, Stephen King said (in his 'On Writing' book) that author needs to find their one reader and write for them. Like he writes his books for his wife. You cannot satisfy all people (and especially yourself), but you can satisfy one person. For me, it's the best mindset and the easiest way to motivate myself. I never saw a point to wrote a book for myself, I always craved to tell stories to the people. Even when I was a six-year-old, I wrote the short fairytales for my little sister, and now, in my 30s, I still have this mindset and write my stories for my best friends.
Hey Kate! I think it is great that you did overcome your concerns and posted the video anyway. Even though I love the usual pace of your edited videos, seeing an "uncut version" of yourself was really refreshing and - as many people have commented already - inspiring.
Thank you :)
Honestly, I couldn't care less about the marketing during a first draft. Not only it takes away the fun of writing, for me. It limits me. Maybe, while writing, I'll find that the story is entirely different, and even the genre changes. So worrying so much about market and genre when I haven't even written the thing sounds like a waste of energy. I get that it helps to have a sense of direction, a focus, but it should be flexible, imo. Then, in revision, you can go back and check all the boxes, if you want.
Another thing to keep in mind: complex algorithms like UA-cam's change often. The publishing trends also seem to change frequently. So in the end, it makes more sense to stay true to oneself, and then find ways to mold our content around the viewer's expectations, if our intention is to make it profitable.
I like to believe that the best engagement happens around the creator, and not the content itself.
"Write to Market" by Chris Fox explains this so well. His approach as an indie publisher is to find the overlap between what he enjoys writing and what the market wants. He definitely does NOT suggest writing something just because it's "hot" or trendy at the moment. But his approach is to create books that he wants to write AND that readers are hungry for. He goes really in depth on how to do research to find a hungry/under-served genre. If you haven't read "Write to Market," it's only 99 cents right now, and it's definitely worth a read!
Agree with this!
just bought this, thanks for the recommendation! That attitude is what I'm trying to take as well.
Kudos for uploading an unedited video- mine would be 50% silence, and 30% ums, uhhs and so. (The algorithm hates me. I can't understand it to save my life, so I've given up trying.) I tend to write things that I don't often see in YA, (with my limited consumption of it,) creating twists on 'standard,' cliches and tropes. Whether or not they're gaps, I have no idea but that's what I want to write. I do love your Hocus Pocus mug.
To me one of the best joys in life is reading short stories and only knowing the title before I start reading.
I really like that you took on the challenge to not edit this, that was really great to see you being super honest and vulnerable!
My motto when it comes to art is usually "my art means something special to me, and therefore it might mean something special for someone else too". I create art (AKA I write) for myself, to try and make something I've needed but haven't gotten before, and I recognize that since I've made a story that I've wanted but haven't seen, there might be someone else out there who also have wanted it without seeing it.
Applauding your bravery & vulnerability! Keep shining
I always bristle a bit when the write to market “debate” comes up. Maybe it’s because I come from writing predominantly romance, but while I cannot seem to write anything to market to save my life, I honestly don’t understand why it’s a “debate” at all. If a writer is someone who wants to write to market, why are they judged for doing so? If it’s a matter of quality of the piece, usually the readers will determine the success of that piece. If it’s a critique of our more clickbait-y culture, reviews will usually warn readers at the pass so to speak. I think the only time I would ever worry about or be concerned over books that are written to market or making more marketable/clickbait-y UA-cam content is when it’s harmful to either the creator (unsustainable schedules or content they don’t care about) or the consumer (through misinformation or implied non-nuance for sensitive triggering topics). Writing is such an isolating process for a large chunk of time (ironic considering just how collaborative it is during the editing process usually) that I don’t understand why we try to say that writing to market is somehow lesser. We should be lifting each other up. Readers are not a finite resource, there’s enough seats at the author table, there’s enough pie that everyone can get a slice. We should be supporting and elevating each other, regardless of the intention. Because we all know that once you actually start writing, those who stick around usually do because they love it, because writing is really hard.
I'd like to heart this 10 more times if I could.
Ditto!!! “…those who stick around usually do because they love it, because writing is really hard.” Well said.
"Readers are not a finite resource..." 🙌
There should never be a reason not to be supportive of or uplift each other. We're all in this business together and readers are always going to be there. I've never been able to see how competition fits into the writing world
I'm always amazed when people say they love editing. 😅
It's soooooooooooo zen. it's like meditating for me.
I dropped everything! You’re my favorite authortuber and this topic is 👌👀
Aww, thank you so much!
@@KateCavanaugh seriously this was so well done, and so well said. :)
I'm so proud of you for putting yourself out there in this way and talking about such a difficult subject in the writing community! When I was younger and first started writing genre fiction, I wanted to write as a form of creative expression; a former writing partner used to advise that writing is a business and we need to write for the particular audience the story is geared for. We've since had a falling out, because I was very stubborn and didn't want to be made to believe my approach to writing was "wrong". There are plenty of folks out there who write just to write and don't plan on selling their work, ever. But personally I think there needs to be some blending of the artistic and marketing side of things, and the easiest way to boil it down is: Don't Write JUST To Make Money. We're no longer living in a time when we can sell a short story to a lit mag or even a local newspaper and make some kind of commission off of it. Traditional publishing is shifting in a dozen different direction (and that's probably being affected by the pandemic as well).
I apologize for my own tangent here, and yes - I'm playing catch up with a lot of your videos! *smiles*. But when people express themselves in an artistic fashion just to make a buck, as opposed to expressing themselves because they would essentially implode if they didn't, to me that is a deal breaker and not a real "artist". And yes, writers are artists as well! ;)
Writing should be exciting. Often what we find exciting is something we didn't / couldn't exactly expect.
I enjoyed the unedited Kate. I feel like you’ve given us a glimpse into your inner self. So brave and adorable.
Re: algorithms…I don’t even try to figure out what Amazon wants (don’t have a UA-cam channel yet). I got lucky and wrote a marriage-of-convenience romance at the urging of a NYTimes Best Selling author / mentor, and timing was a lot of its success. If you look at my book rankings this year, it’s hard to believe I made the USA Today bestseller list, but MoCs are not the big trend at the moment. Over my career, I’ve sold over 300K titles on Amazon (and given away at least that many, I’m sure). Yes, I keep spreadsheets so I can know how many sales I’ve made. But my biggest years (sales-wise) were 2013-2017, with a slow decline since for my romances.
Like you, Kate, I write to entertain. Algorithms weren’t even invented when I started writing. Yes, I’ve written entire fanfic novels for 2 readers (but I had a following under a different name of about 300). Having no control over what algorithms morph into, I am taking a year for myself creativity wise and writing paranormals and vampires and so on, to refresh my love of writing. But also, to entertain. If they succeed, great. If not, at least I’m still enjoying the process. Romance was a genre I had to learn to write, although I love my characters and my little fictional town, and some of my readers want to live there.
I agree with you totally that writing the book (for myself AND my readers) is the first priority. Why worry about market trends when they will probably have changed by the time you write a book for them. My first marriage of convenience was fun to write and my timing was fortunate. Alas, I have no idea what the algorithms are secretly demanding. But I need to enjoy creating my books, so maybe I’ll get lucky again and lovable vampires will come back into fashion. Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to address some of your points in this very sweet and honest video. You have over 35k followers and lots of writer friends, but if I can answer any questions for you or share more privately, just let me know. I don’t know everything, but I started in 2011 as an indie publisher so I do have some experience. :D Love you, love the vlog.
Okay seriously you have the coolest mugs!
I enjoy all your videos, but these are the ones that make me love you more 💕
It cracks me up that you're so comfortable with live streams but the thought of an unedited video made you so nervous 😂 This was a really interesting video, though! Loved hearing your thoughts on the algorithm and stuff. I'm still trying to figure all that out.
This is such an interesting topic especially with the CreatorTube conversation going around. I feel you on the ummmms. Thats totally me too. I definitely need to step my craft podcast game up. I spend most of my time listening to scripted ones. Love that you have these chatty videos!
I love how raw and unfiltered this is ^^ thanks!! Im okay with mid-length videos too. Dang I hate all sortsa algorithms tbh haha
I love writing to market because I am such a weirdo that by the time I'm done with a story it will have subverted and twisted everything, but starting very grounded and generic helps real in and scope my projects as well as giving me a lot of baseline to work from.
No one really cares if it's edited or not Kate, you always entertain us and we prefer you're weird and awesome unedited videos either way. 😊
I enjoyed listening to your unedited video here. It's definitely rougher and a little slower and takes a little more time for me to suss out what you're getting to on occasion, but you get there and it's a good watch/listen.
I've had all these same thoughts and feelings about algorithms and writing to market. At the end of the day, though, I've accepted that writing to market seems to be the way that most successful indie authors are making a living writing books, which is what I want to do.
So I suppose it comes down to what your goals are. I really want for my husband and I to be able to work from home. That's a big goal for both of us, and writing could get us there. So I've embraced the fact that writing to market might be what I need to do to get there. Do I wish it was easier to make a living just writing whatever ideas come to your mind that you're passionate about? Absolutely. But that just doesn't seen to be the reality, at least not in indie publishing.
However, I also think there is a problem with people thinking of writing to market as being some kind of sell-out or thinking people aren't passionate about their books if they write to market. Personally, for me, there are so many things that I love under the umbrella of romance. So if one thing happens to be trending, as long as it's a trope I enjoy, I could easily see myself being passionate about writing a book in that niche. (I pronounce it neesh, btw. 😉)
On the other hand, though, I also have ideas that I'm excited about that I know aren't going to be as marketable. Right now I'm writing a three book series about a girl's journey through dealing with the grief of her parents dying. It's set in a small town and there's a love triangle, one of the male characters being a bit older than her. I know this series is not typical for the market, and I've been told by many different people all the things I should change to make it "fit." And I'm not doing those things. This is an intentional choice that I know will result in fewer books sold, but I'm okay with that.
So going forward, for me, I plan to have written to market projects interspersed with what I call "passion projects." Those passion projects will be ones that I can just do what I want and not care about the marketability. But as far as the written to market stuff, I see it as a job. Even if I'm writing a romance novel that maybe isn't my favorite idea I've ever had, it would still be the best job I've ever had if I could make money writing a romance novel. Even writing a book I don't care about quite as much as my passion projects beats cleaning houses for a living, which is what I do now.
So yeah, that's the balance I've struck. It would be nice if I could just write whatever I want and it would sell, but that's unfortunately not very realistic. But still, making a living writing books sounds like a dream to me, regardless of what those books are about. (Of course as long as you aren't compromising what you want your writing to be just for the market... like no matter how popular it is, I'm not going to just start writing erotica all of a sudden or something.)
My views on writing to market have changed quite a bit since watching Alina's video on the subject and discovering The Writing Gals group on Facebook. And I'm grateful for the change. 💖
My current ideology about this topic is to focus on writing what I want to read as a reader, which like you mentioned to a certain degree satisfies appealing to reader. I know I can't publish for a few years since I want to self-publish, which is fine because I have a lot of learning and practicing for writing to do. I'm hoping when the time comes for me to publish, I'll see which project I have that would most likely do well in the market of that time and get it ready for publishing.
Also, you mentioned that you wouldn't write anything you wouldn't plan to share eventually and I'm the same. I have a list of novel ideas I do eventually want to write and publish, whether that idea is shared in 5 years or 50 years. I think the key to answering the questions you posed is deciding how far are you from the stage of "I'm ready to publish" as a writer and whether writing is your main career or you have a job as an income source. Sorry for the long comment.
This is a hard topic. On the one hand, if you’re selling your books, you need to make money, that’s the whole point of becoming a ‘professional’ author. I think from a purely economic standpoint, and it makes sense to work the trends.
I think if you’re not moving as much as you want to with your works, maybe try chasing the trends for a book or two. If it’s trends, you absolutely hate don’t do it, but we have to be practical about surviving on our passions.
Yet at the same time, you see the most prominent authors, and they just write the one thing they’re known for and love (at least they don’t talk about trend-chasing with the possible exception of Sanderson) AND sell a ton.
I guess it just comes down to what you think will be best for your business. 🤷♂️
Camera: Doesn't focus
Kate: Hocus pocus!
Camera: Focusses instantly 😂
"I really enjoy the park...er....the process." Ahah. Further evidence that she is in fact an upright golden retriever.
I don't worry about algorithums. I just write what I want to write and edit with industry standards in mind.
I don’t edit any of my videos & I write what I love - Mystery (luckily, mystery is popular), but also some dystopian, fantasy, and contemporary fiction. But, it’s not what I plan to sustain my life with, and I think that makes a huge difference. I run my own business, my husband works, and I homeschool, so my writing is a way of expression that may lead to some extra income & my UA-cam is a way to connect with others and grow my business. 🤷🏼♀️ I don’t edit cuz I don’t like to, I post content I like, and I leave it at that.
Also, I like your chatty videos (I just like chatty videos in general, which is why that’s pretty much what I do 🤣)
You're not the only one feeling weird about marketing before writing...but awesome chat, Kate 😎👍
I can't speak on the writing aspect, but very early in my YT career my view on the algorithm was shaped by one of my favorite creators completely quitting because of it. In order to grow she followed popular trends (which worked) but by the end of growing her audience she had strayed so far from the content she actually wanted to create that she was miserable. Whenever she uploaded a video she loved she got constant backlash from people that wanted her to make the 'other content' that gained her the following she had. She ultimately gave up and is now only on IG sharing the work she loves. So what I take away from this is that I would rather have a smaller audience that is in love with the same type of content I love to make, than an audience that expects me to follow trends that I dread making. So far I feel it has been the right thing for me to do and have not regretted that decision.
If I put up an unedited video there would be so much swearing hahaha, but I loved this little behind the scenes look as well as the topic discussed!
Thank you so much for posting this Kate, I love it so much! I've always found your videos super relatable, I think partially because you're always so refreshingly honest, and this video was honest and relatable to the max.
Also: If you do want to start a second channel just for fun (and to say F you to the algorithm) then I would be 10000% there for all the antics
I started out with 2 channels but still yet to get either of them off the ground xD loved seeing this video.
"where was I going with this I don't know I got distracted" this is 100% me filming videos... I probably should script more but I usually can't be bothered 😂editing truely is a powerful tool! I usually play the "shine a spotlight on it" trick and make the funniest goofs part of the fun!
Wow, you did great with not editing! My unedited stuff tend to be much more silence, and starting and restarting sentences, so kudos!
I write to an audience in the sense that I write the books I wish were already out there, and I'm just assuming I'm not the only one who wants that ...
And I have also decided not to try to publish my current WIP when it's done, because I just don't think it would do great until this whole plague thing is over with 😅
With UA-cam, I love trying to figure out the algorithm, thats part of the fun with uploading videos, although i do make a faia mount if videos that i know won't do great, too, just because they're fun, so ... yeah :)
Oh yes, I'd also have problems with thinking of the market too soon, mainly bc a lot of what I write stubbornly defies genre (eg. fantasy but not epic) & I think that's actually a good thing. It's easier & more efficient for me to write the thing & then go: I should probably market this as x genre, instead of: oh, I'm going to write a typical x genre book. (obviously oversimplified) I only want to think about the market during revision & editing at the EARLIEST (dialing back if it's too confusing for beta readers), but that's just how I work. And the very best literary works & authors that inspire me also did/do not seem to care too much about genre conventions, so there's that too.
People are looking for an answer when there isn’t a “correct” answer. The question writers need to ask themselves is why are you writing this and what do you want to get out of it? Plus you need to acknowledge your priorities and there is the answer for you. I don’t pay attention to the market because the story I want to write is for me. I don’t have a goal of having a career as an author so for me I can afford ignoring the market. Someone who wants to make a living off of it have different priorities because their goals are different.
This was a great video! It's nice to see people without a ton of editing so we can know more about them! Personally, I always think about the market but that's because it tells me if my project is going to be traditionally published, self-published, or do I throw it on Wattpad and not think about it. I don't think about trends per say, but I do ask myself 'Okay I want to write a YA romance novel, what do I love about that genre' then I ask myself what kind of book cover would I like. I love making book covers for my novels and use them to inspire me to finish my book. Normally by the time I'm sitting down to write (It helps I'm a planner) I know the genre, I've read other books that are similar to it, and I have a query letter already written with the vague idea of what I'm doing.
That being said I write books to share with people. The book is for both me and the reader. It's for me to live through the story on a personal level, and then to share that experience with those who read it.
I definitely don't "write to market," but I do write to a reader. For me, writing (typing) a story is telling a story to someone- I have to have an audience (reader) in mind. That being said, if I am deciding what to work on next and I am equally invested in two projects, I will write the one I think is more likely to sell first. (I am trying to trad pub.)
I'm convinced we are not asking the right (best) Questions. Another time I witnessed this was during the UA-camr Burn Out phase. The people that have forged corners of UA-cam that have experience with Creative Drought (Danny Gregory, who had a art director past & started the everyday matters group back in the Yahoo groups days) had a number of prescriptive fixes in Creative License: Giving Yourself Permission to Be The Artist You Truly Are. But because it is a, "DRAWING' book the assumption may be that creatives (especially writers, videographers & editors inclusively) would not find the Rx suitable. I think the rewards are there for the creative that looks from without for time tested workarounds & adaptation to their process. For example, my 1st exposure to Pomodoro work intervals was in The Natural Way to draw by Kimon Nicolaides. There, he has daily drawing exercises that rotate from different drawing styles (gesture, contour, moving action, memory & descriptive poses to name a couple) done in set timed sessions with timed breaks. We also see this in HIIT circuit workouts. I think writing & editing (video, photo, illustration & writing) have the same different component skills that can be divided into units. Jeff Vandermeer's Wonderbook touches on some of them. I think the writing community & UA-cam creator community has approached the point where we need to explore our intertextuality muscles & find the Questions, then the answers in an Accretion of what has worked in other disciplines.
There is more, but this is the point where I copy these comments into Google Keep for further cogitation.
I would love to see content outside of the algorithm, so I might just go looking for that hashtag.
good. there's no dislikes.
KEEP IT THAT WAY.
I really like the unedited style.
Bahaha I'm glad! I kinda want to try again because I was really in my own head about it. The goal is to slowly but surely get more comfortable with the chill, unedited style. :)
Kate showing Monday who's boss! I tried starting a YT channel and never even made it through filming the video - sitting down in front of a camera by yourself and just talking is so much harder than it sounds. Kudos for the unedited version, I appreciate it just as much as your regular, edited content!
Very interesting conversation to have and for some reason at the end I heard Loki's voice going "if it were easy, everyone would do it" lollll
EDIT: I'm still stuck at the "how do you define the algorithm" part
This was such a great look behind the scenes! I related real hard to every nervous sip of coffee.
I'm also not a huge fan of the "working backwards" mindset because I think that takes out a lot of the fun from writing, like, you need that balance between "I want to read this" and "other people will want to read this", eh? (also if you make a weird second channel, I will subscribe in a heartbeat)
Omg I could never upload an unedited video! I don't know if y'all wanna see my doofus self unedited lol
Writing to market is like you said smart, but I agree that the artists should still write what they love and not write for what would possibly sell the most. This reminds me of Sarra Cannon and how she told us how she tried to write to market and changed up her typical genres she wrote in and didn't feel true to herself and her audience could tell. At the end of the day, we need to follow our little writing hearts
I picked creativity!
Great vid, thanks for sharing your experience. I'm new to youtube and making vids about mental health, cultural criticism, and similar stuff, and it's awesome to see what other people are sharing. Thanks again.
LOLs that was cute but a bit painful! Niche = Neesh phonetically like quiche = keesh, it's a French thing. Love what you do however you want to it, if you are having fun it's fun for your audience and I will watch it. ❤️👏😂❤️
I feel like certain questions are based on certain circumstances. If you are trying to write a book the is trendy and something that will sell its hard to predict if the book you write will fit into the trend on time, because of the amount of time it takes to create and release a book. Of course that is also situational cause some people write faster and slower. I tend to write for myself because some things that I like I know that if I look for I will not find because I have such a specific genre that I enjoy. So essentially writing for myself before I write for others. In a UA-cam sense I feel like creating videos that are popular along side things that you want to create is easier even if maybe some don't do as well. If you know something will give exposer to your channel and create what you want people will eventually stay for both videos. I found your channel through the algorithm and maybe I got here because of one video but I do enjoy all of your videos.
I think this is a really good conversation on pure artistic creation vs creating to sell. I think that the best works of art are the pieces that are so vulnerable and personal to the creator itself that the audience can find an aspect of the work that resonates with them (even if it's only the fact that we all as humans crave to be seen and heard for who we are and to express ourselves).
I don't believe that there are experiences/stories that are so unique that it can only apply to a certain subset of people or to a certain audience. Rather, our emotions and lived experiences are so closely intertwined.
I always know I really like a creator when I'm cheering and coaxing them on while they let us see them stretch beyond their confort zone.
I agree with a bunch of the "this feels icky" vibes re: reverse engineering from marketing backward to content, but I just came in the comments to say thanks for letting us see you actively holding discomfort. In this age of designing for market and finished polish celebrity, this is important. I see you, boo.
I had the craziest idea yesterday to get my novel written and put it out on wattpad because idk how to self publish or query. For the first time, I put the summary of it out on my Pinterest and now there's no going back because I'm dedicated to this project. You've really inspired me to take chances.
Read Chris Fox's "Write to Market" and then his "Destroyer" novel that was the case study for WtM and you will get the concept.
The main idea is that instead of writing a book and then try to market it, you pick and choose how to make your project sell. In trad publishing, it is about your editor giving you notes while writing, in indie publishing the authors should do that themselves.
And it is not about Art, it is about selling books. People can write the books they want to, WtM is about being a pro author trying to make a living out of their book sales.
@@camillemyrick I have reviewed the entire series of Chris Fox writing books and I really appreciated how they save you the time and money of making the same mistakes.
You're doing great with this discussion. I think within the constraints of any genre, there is a lot of room for creativity. I write to entertain as well, but there is always something for myself in there, something I'm trying to explore or work out. If I didn't do that, I couldn't sustain my interest through the arduous process of writing, editing, marketing, etc.
I hate the idea of analysing the market and then writing with that in mind. While it might be a logical way to go about it, it puts so much pressure on your creativity. And for someone like me who's just gotten into writing again in the past year, I have enough struggles with getting a book written without putting the market's expectations on top of everything. 😅
I can definitely see it being a "stage" of a writer's career too. Or just different strokes for different folks! I definitely do a version of this for my romance novels, but it's never in a genre/trope that I wouldn't like writing. So I kiiiiinda get it? But thinking of the book cover/where in the store it would be from the start can sometimes feel overwhelming.
If your book explores some base similarities of the human condition, is well written, expands upon three dimensional characters, and contains an unpredictable/engaging plot, your book will likely be ‘successful’. So, if you write a poorly written book that explores a topic that is ‘trending,’ no amount of marketing or media buzz can save that book in my opinion. Artwork begins it’s life with the imaginative, creative, individualistic expression of the artist. I think reversing that creative process (looking toward the finished product before the product has been created) strips the mystique and true creative expression from the very fibre of the project. Artwork is forever evolving as the artist works on his/her work. Therefore, picturing the finished product before that project has been created only stifles creative expression and incarcerates the artist in a metal box. It is much more effective to let your artwork evolve naturally instead of following a formula that is currently ‘trending’ in pop culture. If you want your artwork to to enter the respected literary canon (if that is what you’re aiming for) then following popular trends will only inhibit that possibility. Following the natural creative process is what will ultimately make your artwork successful in achieving its primary purpose - to touch the lives of others.
Yeah... would feel weird to me, too. Seems like you should write your stories so it fits better into the algorithm. I want to write stories because I love to write them and because I want to build up the world that's inside my head on paper/screen. Not really the best idea to base everything on the algorithm. If the general public doesn't like your book, it sucks, but it is the story you put all your work in, and it's the story you wanted to write in the first place.
Is that a bit romanticized? Yeah. It very much is. But writing should be romanticized in my opinion. It's a job you can be passionate about, and mostly it only works when you are truly passionate about it.
You did a great job. You are so genuine and endearing, and that's exactly why I love watching your videos. It's awesome and inspiring to watch you push your boundaries.
If you hadn't kept reminding me you were nervous or apologising for saying things... i wouldnt have necessarily known it was unedited in terms of the content, lovely
Bahaha definitely! Watching it back myself was not nearly as bad as the nerves of filming it. I hope to try this sort of thing again and gradually get more comfortable. :)
@@KateCavanaugh I mean I can't comment - I have 2 videos recorded but not edited and don't like editing but did upload some "vlog" style which were less edited and I didnt like it even thought I like watching them... But then I flit between podcasts and videos and IG and written articles... I have things to say but can't be consistent in where and how I share it :P
To me the whole working backwards seeing the book on the shelf first just seems odd. If you a
Can do it to market to what's popular kudos to you. I personally dont think I would be able to do something like that. I write for myself first would I like to he publish yeah of course but writing the stories that I have fallen in love with is priority. It might take longer to be published that way and I'm fine with that.
I wonder how the edited version would have looked ?
I like the unedited style! Reminds me more of your live-streams. I also like your edited style. Honestly, I like everything you do 😂. My story ideas are always automatically in genre fiction, but as I'm writing, I'm not thinking too much about the audience. I just write stories I want to. Audience expectations come up for me as I'm editing. BUT... when I created my UA-cam channel, I did set expectations that I'd be making writing videos AND ones about musical theater because I wanted to be able to do both. The UA-cam algorithm doesn't affect me much more than that because I'm still going to make videos I want to no matter what BUT I do look at what performs well out of curiosity.
This was so interesting and comforting! I would say only 30% of my actual footage ends up in a video. The rest is me losing my train of thought, repeating the same sentence over and over again with slight variations to give Editing Me options, staring at the camera and saying stuff like 'what am I doing? Why am I talking to an empty room?' and praying that no one walks in while I'm filming lmao. I definitely thought that I was just unusually camera shy but it's nice to know that even bigger authortubers like you have similar experiences.
I just started making videos on UA-cam, so I don't see the algorithm affecting me as much. However, I've become a lot more focused on my marketing and brand ever since I discovered that it's a very important part about being an author. I mostly try to do whatever I want in my social media, but I've lately wanted to be more specific and niche to find my target audience. Due to this mentality, I sometimes find it hard to come up with content, even if it's the type of content I'd want to make. Maybe it's just me rambling, but that's how I feel.
I get the fear of not editing your videos, but I really like that it isn't. I dont know what it is about it but it just feels very natural/real. It's nice in my opinion.
Aww yay! I'm glad! The fear was much more in the filming of the video, with the knowledge that I'd mess up along the way somehow, than the actual end product. I'll have to keep that in mind when I try again. :) Slowly but surely I'll get more comfortable!
I am still a farily new authortuber and the algorithm is not something I understand. I am mostly writing for the fun of it and it will end up on my blog eventually, but not published anywhere else.
the art you write should primarily make YOU happy. ANYONE who buys your e-books will read them once. Maybe a small % of them will even read your e-books 4 or 5 times at most. that is a total of less than 15 hours/book at most. Whereas you will have spent years on that book. Write the book you want to write. Don't waste time on questions that have easy answers. And also don't compare a video that took you less than 4 hours to make with a book that you know requires WAY more effort and skill. Anyone can make a video. stupid timers and typing ASMR videos require no effort and, if you have a built-in audience, those videos do well for no reason other than the pre-existing audience. If you have the skills to write a good book, focus on that and you'll do great. Don't write to market. it is a fact that up to this point it takes you a long time to get published. that's ok. but you CANNOT predict what the market will need 5-6 years in advance. NO ONE CAN. Write what you want. if it is good it will do well. and your audience cannot hurt. focus on the quality of your e-book. it is the only way to end up with a goode- book. end of story.
Good luck.
I think if you want to publish traditionally you should have an idea of what the market likes and what the market needs or doesn't have, but ultimately if you want to tell a story that is not so marketable (as in won't sell) then I don't think there is anything wrong with that. You may not get published, but if you think the story is great and needs to come out of you, do it! It may get to a point in the future where the story you tell is ready for the market, if it Is not ready now.
Dude the commercials though. i had 5 different breaks within the first 12 minutes. I don't mind supporting the channel but that is excessive.
Same. It’s annoying. Though I‘ve heard that creators don’t have a say in how many ads they get.
What the heeeeeeeck. There should NOT be that many. This is 100% my bad; I always select for UA-cam to auto-insert ads and then I go in and fine-tune them. (I forgot I'd selected this video to go up today so I hadn't done that. ☹️) But it neeeevvvveeerrr does that many. I just fixed it and I'm sure I'll have to double-check in a bit to make sure the changes are in effect.
Thank you so much for the heads up!
YOU ARE SO BRAVE. Thank you for uploading this and I think you did fantastically.
Ahaha your lil hums after taking a sip of coffee is very cute 😂😂
GREAT topic!
I think so much of this depends on your own personal goals. If you just enjoy writing and are having fun going at your own pace, messing around, doing exactly what you feel like and don't have the drive or desire to profit off your writing, then go for it. No shame in any of that at all! However, if you do want to share your work in some capacity and profit off it, then I think you do need to take the market into consideration. It's just like any other industry. Even non-profit organizations, (for example, one with a mission to provide clean water to rural areas) is going to tailor their marketing to try to entice donations from specific groups. I see nothing wrong with that.
On the UA-cam side of things, the algorithm is really another marketing game in a way. Editing or not editing your videos is your choice, but people's attention spans are generally pretty short, so editing makes sense to me. I don't think editing makes something "fake" necessarily...to me it just means the creator values their audience's time enough to cut out the pauses and "umms" and the misspoken portions. That said, it is fun to see a completely unedited video sometimes--makes my unedited footage not seem so bad, haha!
Been watching you for ages and seeing you unedited is my absolute favourite thing - I actually thought "oh my goodness, Kate is human like me!"...like staring in a mirror, because this is what I am like to have a conversation with, what I'm like presenting on topics I'm an expert in...the list goes on. Thank you. And great discussion too 💕
Almost 15 years ago, sadly, I read this book called Tuesday Child (I don't remember the author's name) and it brought up the film scene in England and how it was getting a little pretentious. The main character is a producers' assistant and executive assistant to a major producer and she scoffs that her boss probably hadn't even heard of Pirates of the Caribbean. And she's always getting dinged because she "thinking too commercially." It's a romance book if you can believe it.
This chatty talk reminded me of the book. I should try to find the book again.
There's always a balance in art. Is the greatest novel known to man really the greatest novel if no one reads it? I think the difference and you can really see the difference is if someone is really only in it for money. Sara Cannon always talks about a Billionaire Romance she wrote when she started writing and she did it because someone told her she'd make money from it. She was never happy with it and loves that the agent she sent it to her rejected it.
I decided to self publish because I know it's a comparatively small audience who wants to read a soap opera in book form. I know it's a hard sell and publishers can't take that chance, but I also want the story out there.
I'm not understanding this trend of not editing videos or wanting people to not script videos. It really doesn't make sense to me, why not up out a polished video.
Oh this video was everything!!!! I love absolutely ALL of your videos but this may just be my favorite one! I personally don't do anything to please the UA-cam algorithms with my videos but that's mostly because I'm still new to this and I still have almost no idea what I'm doing lol... Thank you for this video, it was awesome! Take care ❤❤
You are so brave! Hehe I would be terrified! You're doing such a good job
i reallly liked the unedited style!! i think that rambling and tangents and not knowing where sentences are going necessarily is how like...an actual conversation goes, and im here for YOU! polished stuff is nice but it's also nice to just have a (one-sided lol) chat with you :D
I've never watched a non-edited video, but it's really good! I do kind of think of the market, and kind of worry about my 5 book fantasy series; want to traditionally publish but know it's risky. But I'm trying to just get it all done and then worry about the publishing road when they're actually done and not in the editing/drafting phase. BTW, I would definitely watch your second channel most likely; love your writing channel, and how it isn't just writing advice like a lot of channels are (I like advice, but I just want to watch other writers write), and would love to see what you do next! :)
I could tell this was hard for you but I'm so glad you did it. Unedited Kate feels like someone I could be friends with. Edited Kate does too, but unedited Kate talks like I do. Unedited Writative is all over the place.
I think Art is for the artist and the consumer. For the most part, the artist is in charge of the decisions and creation, but sometimes the consumer can influence them. Any artist can change a work, but say you start writing a series. By the end of it, particularly if it became a series because of sales, you would essentially "owe" the consumer a good ending. Or if a writer starts a book a certain way, it is essentially a promise to the reader.
I always keep in mind that every book I write needs to essentially say "I'm going to tell you a story, but I promise that if you stick with me until the end, that I'll make it worth your time." And then make sure to keep that promise. As readers first, we writers have all been burned by a failed promise a book or series made us.
But I never want to chase a market, or write something that doesn't excite me even if it will sell, or sell something that breaks a promise with any kind of "buyer beware" attitude. I hope that people will love my stories and seek them out, so I write first to my own standards and for my own joy, then make sure I've kept my word.
You're doing great Kate!
Also. You must somehow make the Scooby-Doo Meets Princess Bride a thing that I can access someday. A part of me will simply DIE if I don't read it. A damn dramatic part but still...
This is such a good video. I don't care much about the topic tbh (I just write whatever I want and I'm not planning on publishing anything) but I love the style of this video, feels like we're two friends chatting. Great job uploading an unedited video, I woulda been terrified. The long pauses are natural though, that's where normally another person would respond to you :P
Love that you shared this unedited. Reminded me of my writing group and how we just talk/ramble about writing. I'm also an existential INFJ, so I talk in circles, and understand the struggle. lol Your authenticity is always refreshing. Thanks for continuing this channel, even though I'm sure it's stressful.
This is a very good video, it was interesting to see an unediting sit down.
For me, I have an understanding on my limitations on the publishing world. But, besides all of that I still feel like writing. So, there is a passion somewhere and a need to do something. Or many times, while watching shows or reading other books I just see the stories and analyse them.
I feel like I will always love stories, regardless of being a sucessfull author or not. So, my focus should be just continuing to be creative and having fun.
That’s totally me when I’m filming. I have notes, but no script, so there are a million pauses in my videos and jump cuts. You got your point across though Kate. I hope you make more unedited videos.
As for the market, I feel like self-pub is even more market-driven, the short term market even. You’ve figured out the algorithm on UA-cam so I’m confident you can do well writing to market, to the degree that you decide to do that.
No other way I love starting my morning 👍🏻
Early in my channel history I was heavily editing my videos after a while I would put off editing my videos so I decided to just ramble through my point then post it and I like it a lot better. I like this video it feels really real and authentic because with some channels are so heavily edited that it doesn't seem real you know what I mean? Like you know they've left out parts of themselves for the sake of being more 'marketable' and that's not how UA-cam should be.
The whole thing with writing or creating to the market is good for people who just want to put out products (I was give this advice early in writing career) and the only thing I can say is if that's what you want to do do it. But my first three books were writing 'to the market' because YA is a big popular genre but I've learned that YA is not where my heart is and it made the writing process so much harder. So now I'm working on three revolving projects in the areas I love and even though the process is still hard, I don't hate it like I did before.
To wrap all this up, I love your channel and I love your content. I can't wait to see if you keep doing unedited or go back to editing either way you're awesome and I'll keep watching!
LOVE that you've shown us an unedited video! Haha it shows you as a real person which is great!!
This is not me judging you -- I want to start witg that. I also want to say this whole conversation gets me super salty and I apologise if I come off as rude.
Now that I said that, I think the whole "I can't think of my audience or how to market my work while I create my art" is one of the most stupid and pointless arguments ever. The Godfather was a work for hire. Coppola did put his artistic sensibilities while making it, but it was a studio movie done because gangster movies were in at the time. There was a whole featurette in the DVD where he talked about it, in fact. Part of art -- any art form -- is sharing the work. Otherwise, what's the point?
Definitely! I hope I conveyed the message while chatting about this topic too. You summed it up, it's important to remember our audience, otherwise why share? I think my question with all of this is to what extent do we consider them and how does that change as the process evolves?
@@KateCavanaugh Yeah, you did convey that. I think I see market needs as more of a challenge than anything else. I mean, I was writing YA until earlier this year, when I found out YA is pretty much a no-man's land in terms of querying and selling your stuff to editors. So instead of crying I pivoted and started writing MG -- which has been a joy to research and write. As long as you come from a place of respect, the sky is the limit for a writer/UA-camr.
Thanks for this video, Kate! I just filmed my first two videos and I'm still gathering the courage to post them. Omg my raw footage was AWK.WARD. thanks for reminding me that I can overcome it and the video will be fine haha
Kinda like a live stream
I don't have enough experience to truly comment, but here I am commenting.
In the end, I suppose it boils down what your objective is. For example, let's say you develop copy for a corporation's marketing department. The ultimate example of writing for the market. You can find joy in that as a creative outlet if you look hard enough. Goal: work to eat, find creative satisfaction in the little things.
For a novel you still have an end objective. If the objective is "I have to eat" then that changes how you approach your writing. Pure creative focus isn't good enough. The goal is to sell books.
Otherwise, if you don't have to live on your writing income, congratulations, you have the freedom to do what you want. If you are happy with a novel occupying space in a file cabinet, go for it.
To be honest, I just wrote a book I wanted to read? It wasn't until after the first draft was done and I wanted to make a series and had started the second book that I even realized what the genre was. But once I had that sorted out, I have started to do some research and luckily the genre (paranormal urban fantasy) is very compatible with indie publishing so I felt better in my decision to self-publish. However, in doing all of that research, I realized that I read mainly traditionally published books so now I'm kind of doing an experiment that I call "Amazon Ads decide what I read next" and so far, the one book I read made me very happy so I think its a good plan?
But I write for me first with the hopes that if I like what I'm writing then other people will like it to. I also don't shy away from tropes because again, if they're tropes I love to see in other people's writing, I would hope there were people who'd like to see it in my writing. At this point, my main marketing focus is how to sell me as an author and start building a platform, but like I've said, I'm already working on content. If I wasn't, it does kind of seem like energy you're taking away from the actual product.
I can definitely see the icky feeling as not being a true artist if you are keeping an audience in mind. However I think for novels it makes a lot of sense because if you think about it:
A painting takes a few seconds to look at, a song a couple minutes, and a movie probably two hours at the most.
But a book is a really long investment. Especially if they are 300+ pages and part of a multiple book series. I think it’s too much of a danger of readers never picking it up, or dnf-ing if it’s not something they are into. And most readers do know what tropes they like and what they are really looking for in a book.
If a book is too long, weird, out there, or just about something no one cares about. Most people will probably pass it on by for something they know they are looking for.
It’s harsh but I can see the point of an audience POV.
The algorithm suggested your unhaul video amd that's how I discovered you, even though I'm not a writer.
Actually the algorithm recommended booktube to me in the first place, which a while down the line got me here.
Do you have to make tips to be a writer videos ??? I want to do authortube to record my experience but I don’t want to give advice how to write when I don’t even know myself
My book is going to be published by myself. I'm going indie, purely so i don't need to fit it to an algorithm This way i can write my story without any restrictions on what will and wont sell.
That's a great point and definitely something people should consider when deciding which publication path they want to pursue!
@@KateCavanaugh Agreed! Its probably not the most financially friendly, but at least that way i have the rights to the story my babies are in, and i get to keep such rights even after publication.
Just so you know, I still love your unedited videos and hearing what you have to say. :)