@@Kevin-PeterI think it was to give magic more to do, ranger used to be super useful for overland travel to the dungeon. As overland travel became more sidelined they gave ranger magic to compensate for lose of tracking. I love playing ranger but agree it doesn't need magic.
Well done Kelsey, I really admire your restraint as well as your adherence to theme and ShadowDark design philosophy. Thank you for clarifying to everyone that "Dual Wielding" equals Drow NOT Ranger. THIS ranger is looking great! BRAVA!
I think the d12 on a dagger is fine. You can definitely "story" it in so it's not really silly. The bonus comes from the ranger using hyper-precise strikes with the dagger, not necessarily the dagger itself just doing more damage. I'm glad it was left the way it was.
I really enjoyed watching your creative process developing the Ranger class. I could not agree more that a Ranger’s abilities being tied to intelligence. It never made sense to me that Rangers were lumped in with Wisdom and Divine Spell-casting. Intellect and Discipline is the way to go. Congrats on your well deserved success!
Hey, Kelsey! I have an answer to the question about old school clerics and the blunt weapon restriction. Gary was a history buff and implemented that limitation because of stories of Bishop Odo that claim he carried a club when he was amongst the soldiers on the battlefield. Odo claimed that God would not want him to spill blood, therefore he refused to carry a bladed weapon. Hope you see this and enjoy the trivia. I'm loving Shadowdark so far. Excellent game!
Aha! That is a super cool tidbit to know about Gary's design choice on it. He really did pull from a ton of history and fiction. Thanks for sharing that! :D
I’ve watched all your “let’s design” videos and it’s truly great and inspiring content. Hearing your thought process is golden for a fellow game designer. The herbalism implementation is just fantastic, it’s a great way of adding magical herbs to the game without bloating it up with its own sub system. Thanks for sharing
Longswords (historically) are typically intended for two-handed use, so you can often identify them by their grip length. In D&D longswords are typically designed for one-handed use. Anduril at least in the movie would qualify as a longsword in the historical sense, but would probably be a bastard sword in D&D terms.
Watching this a month after the fact. It is cool to see and hear some of the thoughts on why you choose certain things. Ranger is my character of choice. When I got the pdf. And saw the 2d6 damage on a weapon of choice, I thought this has to be the longbow but if I roll it twice it will go to the dagger. Lol. So cool to challenge someone, dropping the bow and quiver then drawing a dagger, smiling the whole time.
Instead of Aragorn you want to think of John Rambo. Army rangers can get food, water, and provide their own medical care in the bush, by using the bush. They can ameliorate the negative effects of an alien environment as well as use it for stealth and to confer combat advantages (Dutch in Predator). In order to be a ranger you have to go through basic first. They are everything a fighter (grunt) is and more.
@@brickingle3984 he's a guerilla fighter. Mobility, stealth and speed are his assets. Strike hard, strike fast, then melt back into the jungle. A fighter stands toe to toe with an opponent and they both hit each other until one can't hit back. Two totally different things so there's room for both.
You said "instead of Aragorn", and then proceeded to accurately describe what Aragorn and the other Numenorean rangers did and were capable of. A ranger in a typical medieval-esque western fantasy setting is always going to resemble Aragorn more than modern characters like Rambo and Dutch.
Was very sorry, that I had to miss this stream, as the Ranger has been, in most prior iterations of the Grand Ol' Game, my personal favorite class. But I've got to say I am really liking this interpretation of the class, very much not how I thought things might go. Applaud your clarity of vision and integrity for staying away from the dual wielding, pet owner so prevalent in the fantasy RPG zeitgeist these days. This Ranger feels accurate to it's roots and is a breath of fresh air for me. So happy I backed this system and am looking forward to your Bard class as well. Really hopeful that your refreshing sensibilities won't be coming up with yet another version of a lute-playing sexaholic... Looking forward to it.
Like many others I had to do it, this is officially my first kickstarter I’ve pledged to! I’m late to the show but I’m happy to be here now, great work!!
Love the PDFs for Shadowdark which I have been reading and CAN'T WAIT to get the hardcover book in the mail! Switching my D&D groups to Shadowdark as we speak! Thank you for what looks to be an awesome TTRPG!!!
I switched as well, Shadowdark is my new favorite system! Just make sure your players are aware of the difficulty spike from 5E to SD. SD is not nearly as forgiving as 5E and has a much higher chance of characters dying. But part of the fun in SD is making new, fun characters based on the stats you rolled
With the herbalist ability i think you could prevent spamming by requiring time to pass. Each search takes 1d4 hours, rather than the until failure mechanic which seems arbitrary. Foraging takes time
I like this idea a lot, as foraging "along the way" would solve at least some of it (as time skips are frequently used there), and showcase the Ranger's utility to the party. Give them their thing, keep it bundled with a travel vignette or camp setting, and keep things flowing. Instead of repetitious rolls, slowing down something potentially more interesting.
Very cool idea at the end there with the D12 weapon specialization. I think there's some design room to merge Wayfinder with Stealthy in a similar way to how Thievery is written for the Thief class! Awesome stream!
IMO the problem with 4e is that it achieves balance by making the classes all work exactly the same way. But the 4e method of at-will, encounter, & daily powers would be a great way to differentiate clerics from wizards.
Dual-wielding was in the 1st edition ruleset. It gave you an additional attack and carried a -2 main-hand and -4 off-hand penalty, offset by the character Dexterity reaction adjustment.
Right! It was more of an "everyone can do this" thing, not attached to the ranger specifically. I can only guess that it became a ranger-associated element in later editions because of Drizzt!
My D&D group had two different players who rolled double 1's with advantage in back-to-back games this month. I'm trying to find out if someone saw Will Wheaton and caught his curse. lol
Played Rangers alot in the old 1e days, had a wooden shield on the back whilst outdoors carrying longbow. Slung the bow and used the shield going underground where bows are next to useless.
This is totally fair! Bows in Shadowdark are a bit more useful underground since the game doesn't impose penalties for shooting at close range, so that was a bit of the balancing act to make the Legolas types more capable in a Moria situation. As written, a ranger would be able to use a bow (if it's their weapon of choice) very effectively in a dungeon.
@@727xer Yes, no increased risks of shooting into melee -- that got abstracted out since it's just not all that fun in implementation. I assume good archers are pretty crack shots in this game! :)
Thanks for the stream! One of the first things I noticed about Shadowdark was how comparatively simple it would be to create classes and ancestries. Watching this stream backed up my assessment. I have seen other developers, for other systems, spend many multi hour streams getting to the point you did in 2 hours. Would it be possible to create videos or do a few streams talking about how you created the other optional classes (Witch, Pit fighter, Seer etc.)? In addition could you walk through some conversion guides for spells and monsters? Thanks!
I agree that INT could be used more, IMO it would be good for picking locks and disarming traps because they involve some level of problem/puzzle solving. Looking at the rules, there is no specified skill mentioned for lockpicking.
Some after the feed thoughts. The idea of the ranger checking daily upon waking or around new rooms and caves n the regular makes sense, flavor wise, I think perhaps the have pouch with a limited amount of ingredients they can search quickly to replenish, The roles would be on the fly to create poultices and such.
Awesome video. What a privilege to have a sneak peek into your game design process. Love what you have done with the ranger here and yes having Strider as the prototype ranger was a super smart idea. Shadowdark looks really cool! iv played mostly BECMI D&D and Rolemaster (since mid 1980s). Your game has me very intrigued. Im a fan and i only have seen some of what Shadowdark has to offer.
Priests using bludgeoning only weapons was a historic callback to a medieval trend that documented the use of maces, so as not to shed blood in combat. Barbara Tucman’s A Distant Mirror had a good breakdown of the 14th century fighting bishop, for any interested in more detail.
In case you ever decide to try to do a beast master kinda thing with an animal companion, Dungeon World has a good set of rules with their ranger that doesn't change the action economy or track animal companion HP; it's more like an item that you get to customize a little bit. Dual wielding I think should be either advantage on damage rolls, or +1 DEF, whenever you get to doing your dervish class or whatever you end up calling it. I really liked seeing the process. More looking forward to the bard!
Really great job. Excited to try this. I do wish there was more of an option to play a melee Ranger without duel wield. If Aragorn is the inspiration he never once used a bow in the novels
I think the d12 is a bit more elegant. In my experience roll advantage is cool and statistically significant, but for things not on the d20 its kinda wonky. Plus we gotta spread the love for the d12 😂 the poor guy never gets used
I love the idea of expanding dice, but the d12 rewards smaller weapons. If you use a longsword that uses a d8 and a dagger that uses a d4, it would make more sense to apply it to dagger because your character's overall average goes up. I much prefer that a dagger jumps to a d6, longsword to a d10, etc. Or even jumps two weapon die--dagger to a d8, longsword to a d12, etc. Or doubles the weapon's dice--2d4 dagger, 2d8 longsword or longbow...but that's probably too powerful.
Sadly, I've missed live transmission, but that ranger really ended up great and what I was hoping for. For me a perfect ranger is part Ranger of the North, part Night Watch recruit and part witcher - generally a warden who protects civilized communities against the unknown threads lurking beyond borderlands. Often distrustful by those they are meant to protect. I really love you for not making it ranged fighter
Finally someone who treats rangers as what they are, fantasy special forces. You could theoretically give rangers a special fighting style where they can use a handaxe in one hand and a knife/shortsword in the other.
Personally, I think that both Aragorn and Legalos are prime examples of the versatility of the Ranger, with the latter demonstrating expertise with a bow, but both characters dual wielding at times. To that, there is a way to add Dual Wielding without destroying your action economy or driving up power creep. Someone wielding two melee weapons could make one attack with a penalty (like -2 or disadvantage). If they hit, roll both damage dice. So for example, hitting with two Daggers is 2d4, two Shortswords is 2d6, and hitting with a dagger and shortsword is 1d4+1d6. Max damage could be limited to 2d6 to avoid being OP. This could be available for any class, but maybe Rangers (or any other class you want to specialize in it) could Dual Wield without penalty. For Ranger Talents, since they also need to be fairly hearty to survive, perhaps Constitution could be an added choice to the other three potential Ability Score increases in the 7-9 range. This could again reflect the versatility of the Ranger class. With the mushroom options, you could have a shroom that could calm a beast for a number of rounds (perhaps it makes a cloud spore that dazes a creature). Another option could be a healing mushroom that heals only up to half a character's full health. Great video! It's really cool to see your thought process for designing your game. Sorry I couldn't catch it while you were streaming!
Agreed. I started in 2e but did the vast majority of my playing/DMing in 3e and 3.5e, so for me the first thing that comes to my mind when someone mentions Ranger is dual-wielding. Finding some way to incorporate that into Ranger is crucial for me, even if I have to homebrew it. For me, a primary concern of a Ranger is dual-wielding, secondary is animal companions, and tertiary is tracking/nature things. Which I totally get is not what Aragorn was about and historically and canonically Aragorn was the basis for the ranger class. For me, though, if someone wanted to know what a Ranger was I would point them to Drizzt. If someone wanted to build Aragorn, I would build a fighter. I know. Sacrilege.
Also…to note and quote Tolkien “The Bree-folk called them Rangers, and knew nothing of their origin. They were taller and darker than the Men of Bree and were believed to have strange powers of sight and hearing, and to understand the languages of beasts and birds.” This might speak to their ability to intuit the behavior of animals (as opposed to overt speaking squirrel). For example ,when in Hollin, Aragorn notices the absence of birds and beasts which caused the group to go on alert.
Just saw this and I know I’m too late but I would be cool if the first talent was add one more arrow to the same shot with the bow and hit a adjacent enemy, it can stack. 😊 Really nice game, bought it last week and I looking forward to play it with my group.
A thought on the #2 talent: perhaps adding a 1d4 to damage would work better- it implies proficiency in that they can't roll a 1 dmg for that weapon anymore, plus it gently scales up things like daggers, and makes the longbow a possible 12 dmg.
A thought about the Herbalism feat.: Would it be possible that the ranger should be able to dry/store herbs or make them into something like a salve? Just thinking about how Aragon knew what herbs to use and how to apply them. 🤷♀️
First, thanks for ranger xD Question from a very curious noob, what editing tool are you using to create this document (Ranger and the Book)? I look forward to your second crowdfunding (much more)
Thank you, Rodrigo! :) I'm using Adobe InDesign for the layout on all Shadowdark material. You can learn a ton about how to use the program with a good online course by someone like Daniel Walter Scott over on Udemy -- highly recommended!
I always thought dual wielding should be the finesse version of two handed weapons, since usually finesse weapons are only one handed. So not extra attacks, just increase the damage die.
Great stuff. FEEDBACK IDEA: the 10-11 result (Improved Herbalism) feels pretty "meh" compared to the other Talents. The Ranger already has advantage on herbalism, this improvement seems redundant. I would much rather see a numerical bonus like the other classes. Perhaps a +1 AC to Armor? (Rangers are Hearty folk) This would make them travel lighter and faster? Also, if it stacks they could really see benefit. Another option could be to allow the Ranger to exert their tactical accumen and reduce a target of their choices AC by -1. Just some thoughts. Thank you for sharing your process. The first 30 minutes where you were talking about your class design/game-design philosophy was really helpful for those of us who like to hack rules.
Animal Companions, as we all know, came from the classic 80s documentary "Beastmaster", which is canonical to those who are right-thinking and virtuous.
Aragorn is a VERY special case ranger. The Cheif of the Rangers. And the “chosen one”. So to use him specifically for ranger class is very generous. Maybe the Rangers of the North or The Rangers of Ithilian. When the reach level 10 then they could wield “Anduril”. Aragorn really needed to grow into real worthiness. Just my thought.
Longbowmen and crossowmen used small shields and bucklers when they needed to fight melee. They used falchions, long swords short swords and so on with them. Just my history nerd 2 coppers😊
Easy way to fix action economy with duel weidling if you want to throw it in the game and not let it overshadow two handed or sword and board. When duel wielder you need to roll 1 higher than a single wielder to hit with your dominant hand. 2 higher to hit with the off hand. One roll, two possible hits. Critical fails happen at both a 1 and a 2. 1 is a crit fail for both weapons and 2 is a crit fail just for off hand. Duel weilding reduces AC by 1. You're more offensive and less defensive. This way it's a workable option for rangers, fighters and rogues. Also a magic user that wants to staff or wand in one hand and dagger in the other hand gets those penlties making it a lot less appealing, but still an option.
The way I'd do it is to give +1damage bonus AND +1AC (melee attacks only) Two-handed weapons do more damage. Shields grant +2 AC, so I like the idea that 2wf is somewhere between the two
That sounds like a great implementation to me! I might say the DC on the auto-find can't be higher than their level + 10. That way we don't have 1st-level rangers automatically grabbing potions of healing each day.
@@TheArcaneLibrary That makes sense to me. I find that, when I play with my friends we usually don't need to have to worry about restrictions to stop someone from spamming/exploiting a mechanic. But when I play with strangers, more tightly written rules are really beneficial.
I like the approach taken here with the Ranger. I wouldn't mind a list of Herbs. Perhaps a Ranger can double near move and fire a bow, they are guerrilla fighters essentially. Also perhaps the way to handle dual wielding or extra attack is advantage or an exploding damage die.
Short Sword, Arming Sword, (1 handed) Long Sword (1 or 2 handed) and Great Sword (2 handed) - d6 , d7 , d8/d10 , d12 damage ? A long sword has a longer grip than an Arming sword and a great sword is closer to a pole arm weapon
Warlock - some of your great tables for the 'demands' a Warlock's patron might ask. If you roll bad on the table, the patron might be a real bitch and demands the head of local king, or the heart of one of the PCs. Failing to comply should have consequences, but the Warlock should have a 'get out' clause perhaps.
Overland travel is 100% an instinctive thing. Every animal basically does it. You can train any skill to get better at it, but if any animal can also do it then I think it's more wisdom based. Just my 2 cents.
Thank you for Not making the Ranger a spell caster in Shadow Dark! D&D had waaaay too many spell casters to make magic too common and not “special”.
and too much dark vision
Completely agree.
Yes totally agree! Never made any sense to me to give the Ranger magic!!
@@Kevin-PeterI think it was to give magic more to do, ranger used to be super useful for overland travel to the dungeon. As overland travel became more sidelined they gave ranger magic to compensate for lose of tracking. I love playing ranger but agree it doesn't need magic.
@@johndavey2340I think everybody just wants spells. Make that everybody wants a ton of fun capabilities, and wants them at low level.
Kelsey, I think you are brave to do this creation in front of an audience.
Cannot wait to try the ranger. BTW the illustration is outstanding!
For real! Its so cool!
I just wish the bow hand was just slightly larger. But lovely brush/pen b&w work.
Well done Kelsey, I really admire your restraint as well as your adherence to theme and ShadowDark design philosophy. Thank you for clarifying to everyone that "Dual Wielding" equals Drow NOT Ranger. THIS ranger is looking great! BRAVA!
Thank you so much, Michael! :)
I could watch class design videos all day
Same here. I don't see things like this that often.
I think the d12 on a dagger is fine. You can definitely "story" it in so it's not really silly. The bonus comes from the ranger using hyper-precise strikes with the dagger, not necessarily the dagger itself just doing more damage. I'm glad it was left the way it was.
In my own homebrew I just do damage by class.
Probably the best ranger art I’ve seen in a TTRPG. 🤘💀⚔️
Please keep the d12 dagger it fits a well known Ranger - John Rambo. Also please make it apply to Caltrops, it makes the Ranger a trap builder.
Agreed!
Rangers archetypes do seem to end up with one signature weapon. The legolas longbow, aragorn sword, Rambo's combat knife, A vampire Hunter's crossbow.
I really enjoyed watching your creative process developing the Ranger class. I could not agree more that a Ranger’s abilities being tied to intelligence. It never made sense to me that Rangers were lumped in with Wisdom and Divine Spell-casting. Intellect and Discipline is the way to go. Congrats on your well deserved success!
Thanks a lot for doing this, as well as the class it was super interesting to hear your insights on the game itself in passing
Hey, Kelsey! I have an answer to the question about old school clerics and the blunt weapon restriction. Gary was a history buff and implemented that limitation because of stories of Bishop Odo that claim he carried a club when he was amongst the soldiers on the battlefield. Odo claimed that God would not want him to spill blood, therefore he refused to carry a bladed weapon. Hope you see this and enjoy the trivia. I'm loving Shadowdark so far. Excellent game!
Aha! That is a super cool tidbit to know about Gary's design choice on it. He really did pull from a ton of history and fiction. Thanks for sharing that! :D
This is the story I always heard. However, the suggestion that wacking someone full force with a club wouldn't make them bleed is absurd.
A club is one thing. A mace is another. D&D clerics could definitely make you bleed.
I’ve watched all your “let’s design” videos and it’s truly great and inspiring content. Hearing your thought process is golden for a fellow game designer. The herbalism implementation is just fantastic, it’s a great way of adding magical herbs to the game without bloating it up with its own sub system. Thanks for sharing
Longswords (historically) are typically intended for two-handed use, so you can often identify them by their grip length. In D&D longswords are typically designed for one-handed use. Anduril at least in the movie would qualify as a longsword in the historical sense, but would probably be a bastard sword in D&D terms.
D&D "longswords" are actually arming swords. Renaming them will just confuse people though.
Loving the artwork. Great job, Jessee!
Watching this a month after the fact. It is cool to see and hear some of the thoughts on why you choose certain things. Ranger is my character of choice. When I got the pdf. And saw the 2d6 damage on a weapon of choice, I thought this has to be the longbow but if I roll it twice it will go to the dagger. Lol. So cool to challenge someone, dropping the bow and quiver then drawing a dagger, smiling the whole time.
Instead of Aragorn you want to think of John Rambo. Army rangers can get food, water, and provide their own medical care in the bush, by using the bush. They can ameliorate the negative effects of an alien environment as well as use it for stealth and to confer combat advantages (Dutch in Predator). In order to be a ranger you have to go through basic first. They are everything a fighter (grunt) is and more.
Very well put! You totally blew my mind when it comes to rangers.
thanks, glad it was helpful!@@johndavey2340
But as far as game design the ranger can’t be a fighter and some extra as that would nullify the fighter
@@brickingle3984 he's a guerilla fighter. Mobility, stealth and speed are his assets. Strike hard, strike fast, then melt back into the jungle. A fighter stands toe to toe with an opponent and they both hit each other until one can't hit back. Two totally different things so there's room for both.
You said "instead of Aragorn", and then proceeded to accurately describe what Aragorn and the other Numenorean rangers did and were capable of.
A ranger in a typical medieval-esque western fantasy setting is always going to resemble Aragorn more than modern characters like Rambo and Dutch.
Was very sorry, that I had to miss this stream, as the Ranger has been, in most prior iterations of the Grand Ol' Game, my personal favorite class. But I've got to say I am really liking this interpretation of the class, very much not how I thought things might go. Applaud your clarity of vision and integrity for staying away from the dual wielding, pet owner so prevalent in the fantasy RPG zeitgeist these days. This Ranger feels accurate to it's roots and is a breath of fresh air for me. So happy I backed this system and am looking forward to your Bard class as well. Really hopeful that your refreshing sensibilities won't be coming up with yet another version of a lute-playing sexaholic... Looking forward to it.
Loved to see how this creativity evolved into a new character type. Loving ShadowDark RPG.
Like many others I had to do it, this is officially my first kickstarter I’ve pledged to! I’m late to the show but I’m happy to be here now, great work!!
Thank you so much, Ross! :) I'm honored that Shadowdark is your first Kickstarter!
Love the PDFs for Shadowdark which I have been reading and CAN'T WAIT to get the hardcover book in the mail! Switching my D&D groups to Shadowdark as we speak! Thank you for what looks to be an awesome TTRPG!!!
I switched as well, Shadowdark is my new favorite system! Just make sure your players are aware of the difficulty spike from 5E to SD. SD is not nearly as forgiving as 5E and has a much higher chance of characters dying. But part of the fun in SD is making new, fun characters based on the stats you rolled
With the herbalist ability i think you could prevent spamming by requiring time to pass. Each search takes 1d4 hours, rather than the until failure mechanic which seems arbitrary. Foraging takes time
I was imagining the Herbalist ability as more like a check to see whether they had the foresight to have some herbs or salves prepared and ready
I like this idea a lot, as foraging "along the way" would solve at least some of it (as time skips are frequently used there), and showcase the Ranger's utility to the party. Give them their thing, keep it bundled with a travel vignette or camp setting, and keep things flowing. Instead of repetitious rolls, slowing down something potentially more interesting.
Thank you for taking the time to put the Ranger update out through the email link!
Very cool idea at the end there with the D12 weapon specialization. I think there's some design room to merge Wayfinder with Stealthy in a similar way to how Thievery is written for the Thief class! Awesome stream!
Very true! This is a great thought. I will mull about layout and if/how we can make that work!
What about Advantage on reaction rolls with beasts or animals
IMO the problem with 4e is that it achieves balance by making the classes all work exactly the same way. But the 4e method of at-will, encounter, & daily powers would be a great way to differentiate clerics from wizards.
Dual-wielding was in the 1st edition ruleset. It gave you an additional attack and carried a -2 main-hand and -4 off-hand penalty, offset by the character Dexterity reaction adjustment.
Right! It was more of an "everyone can do this" thing, not attached to the ranger specifically. I can only guess that it became a ranger-associated element in later editions because of Drizzt!
@@TheArcaneLibrary Angsty journal entries?
@@colemcmullen3904 Where?! Hahahaha!!
@@TheArcaneLibrary LOL I totally misread your response and thought you were wondering what else became associated with rangers because of Drizzt.
@@colemcmullen3904 OHHHHH hahahahahaa! It did have a "musing out loud" quality to it! 😅
My D&D group had two different players who rolled double 1's with advantage in back-to-back games this month. I'm trying to find out if someone saw Will Wheaton and caught his curse. lol
Hah!
The spear the advantage of being useful as either melee or ranged. Super versatile.
Played Rangers alot in the old 1e days, had a wooden shield on the back whilst outdoors carrying longbow. Slung the bow and used the shield going underground where bows are next to useless.
This is totally fair! Bows in Shadowdark are a bit more useful underground since the game doesn't impose penalties for shooting at close range, so that was a bit of the balancing act to make the Legolas types more capable in a Moria situation. As written, a ranger would be able to use a bow (if it's their weapon of choice) very effectively in a dungeon.
@@TheArcaneLibrary ok, that's awesome! So it's also nullifying the risk of shooting into combatants too?
@@727xer Yes, no increased risks of shooting into melee -- that got abstracted out since it's just not all that fun in implementation. I assume good archers are pretty crack shots in this game! :)
Thanks for the stream! One of the first things I noticed about Shadowdark was how comparatively simple it would be to create classes and ancestries. Watching this stream backed up my assessment. I have seen other developers, for other systems, spend many multi hour streams getting to the point you did in 2 hours.
Would it be possible to create videos or do a few streams talking about how you created the other optional classes (Witch, Pit fighter, Seer etc.)?
In addition could you walk through some conversion guides for spells and monsters?
Thanks!
I like the d12 because it allows a player to customize how their character fights in combat but with equal results across the board.
Hey Kelsey, thanks for creating an awesome game. Just bought it and digging in. Fantastic artwork :-)
Finally, this is a Real Ranger!. Good job Kelsey ♥
I agree that INT could be used more, IMO it would be good for picking locks and disarming traps because they involve some level of problem/puzzle solving. Looking at the rules, there is no specified skill mentioned for lockpicking.
Watched the stream from the middle earlier at work, but wanted to catch the beginning. I got my PDFs and am excited to run Shadowdark for my group.
the herbs are a unique mechanic that Reminds me of aragorn and witcher
is unique and thematic
I played as a ranger in my first game of Shadowdark last week. It's cool to see the thinking behind the class.
Some after the feed thoughts. The idea of the ranger checking daily upon waking or around new rooms and caves n the regular makes sense, flavor wise, I think perhaps the have pouch with a limited amount of ingredients they can search quickly to replenish, The roles would be on the fly to create poultices and such.
Awesome video. What a privilege to have a sneak peek into your game design process. Love what you have done with the ranger here and yes having Strider as the prototype ranger was a super smart idea. Shadowdark looks really cool! iv played mostly BECMI D&D and Rolemaster (since mid 1980s). Your game has me very intrigued. Im a fan and i only have seen some of what Shadowdark has to offer.
Priests using bludgeoning only weapons was a historic callback to a medieval trend that documented the use of maces, so as not to shed blood in combat. Barbara Tucman’s A Distant Mirror had a good breakdown of the 14th century fighting bishop, for any interested in more detail.
Leave it to a priest to think that smashing squishy flesh bags with a large mallet won't result in blood spatter.
@@chaosgyro Plausible deniability. Holy water distribution accident.
Was just about to jump down here to say this - glad someone got here first!
Count Enguerrand de Coucy! Tuchmann’s A Distant Mirror is a fantastic historical analysis. 👍🏼
In case you ever decide to try to do a beast master kinda thing with an animal companion, Dungeon World has a good set of rules with their ranger that doesn't change the action economy or track animal companion HP; it's more like an item that you get to customize a little bit.
Dual wielding I think should be either advantage on damage rolls, or +1 DEF, whenever you get to doing your dervish class or whatever you end up calling it.
I really liked seeing the process. More looking forward to the bard!
Really great job. Excited to try this. I do wish there was more of an option to play a melee Ranger without duel wield. If Aragorn is the inspiration he never once used a bow in the novels
Great job on the Ranger class
I suggest advantage on damage rolls versus the D12 to represent weapon specialization.
I think the d12 is a bit more elegant. In my experience roll advantage is cool and statistically significant, but for things not on the d20 its kinda wonky. Plus we gotta spread the love for the d12 😂 the poor guy never gets used
I love the idea of expanding dice, but the d12 rewards smaller weapons. If you use a longsword that uses a d8 and a dagger that uses a d4, it would make more sense to apply it to dagger because your character's overall average goes up. I much prefer that a dagger jumps to a d6, longsword to a d10, etc. Or even jumps two weapon die--dagger to a d8, longsword to a d12, etc. Or doubles the weapon's dice--2d4 dagger, 2d8 longsword or longbow...but that's probably too powerful.
Love shadowdark
Narsil is an spatha an one handed sword and he used obviously a shield in the battle of helms deep and later on
Good to know! I haven't re-watched the trilogy in a long time and couldn't remember!
@@TheArcaneLibrary
I refered to the books and the fighting style of the day and the rohirrim made a shield essential
You succeeded in making a cool and effective ranger class! So glad it didn't have magic!
Maybe since rangers are combat types, somewhere they could get a +1 to initiative (justified by usually high dex)
Duel wheeling is like trying to shoot 2 rifles lol. In history know one did fight with 2 sws apart from Hollywood lol
❤ Shadowdark
Sadly, I've missed live transmission, but that ranger really ended up great and what I was hoping for. For me a perfect ranger is part Ranger of the North, part Night Watch recruit and part witcher - generally a warden who protects civilized communities against the unknown threads lurking beyond borderlands. Often distrustful by those they are meant to protect.
I really love you for not making it ranged fighter
Clerics used to be disallowed to spill blood. Blunt weapons were less likely to do that.
the illustration is really beautiful
The artwork rocks!!!!
This was cool and seeing that ranger was a class in the system, I went to the Kickstarter and bought a copy (on late backer)
This is great! I'd love to see how you create a druid!
I really like the classes! I got the zines as well. Very cool. Would love to see a Paladin.
Finally someone who treats rangers as what they are, fantasy special forces.
You could theoretically give rangers a special fighting style where they can use a handaxe in one hand and a knife/shortsword in the other.
Personally, I think that both Aragorn and Legalos are prime examples of the versatility of the Ranger, with the latter demonstrating expertise with a bow, but both characters dual wielding at times.
To that, there is a way to add Dual Wielding without destroying your action economy or driving up power creep. Someone wielding two melee weapons could make one attack with a penalty (like -2 or disadvantage). If they hit, roll both damage dice. So for example, hitting with two Daggers is 2d4, two Shortswords is 2d6, and hitting with a dagger and shortsword is 1d4+1d6. Max damage could be limited to 2d6 to avoid being OP. This could be available for any class, but maybe Rangers (or any other class you want to specialize in it) could Dual Wield without penalty.
For Ranger Talents, since they also need to be fairly hearty to survive, perhaps Constitution could be an added choice to the other three potential Ability Score increases in the 7-9 range. This could again reflect the versatility of the Ranger class.
With the mushroom options, you could have a shroom that could calm a beast for a number of rounds (perhaps it makes a cloud spore that dazes a creature). Another option could be a healing mushroom that heals only up to half a character's full health.
Great video! It's really cool to see your thought process for designing your game. Sorry I couldn't catch it while you were streaming!
Agreed. I started in 2e but did the vast majority of my playing/DMing in 3e and 3.5e, so for me the first thing that comes to my mind when someone mentions Ranger is dual-wielding. Finding some way to incorporate that into Ranger is crucial for me, even if I have to homebrew it. For me, a primary concern of a Ranger is dual-wielding, secondary is animal companions, and tertiary is tracking/nature things. Which I totally get is not what Aragorn was about and historically and canonically Aragorn was the basis for the ranger class. For me, though, if someone wanted to know what a Ranger was I would point them to Drizzt. If someone wanted to build Aragorn, I would build a fighter. I know. Sacrilege.
That art is really great.
Also…to note and quote Tolkien “The Bree-folk called them Rangers, and knew nothing of their origin. They were taller and darker than the Men of Bree and were believed to have strange powers of sight and hearing, and to understand the languages of beasts and birds.” This might speak to their ability to intuit the behavior of animals (as opposed to overt speaking squirrel). For example ,when in Hollin, Aragorn notices the absence of birds and beasts which caused the group to go on alert.
Just saw this and I know I’m too late but I would be cool if the first talent was add one more arrow to the same shot with the bow and hit a adjacent enemy, it can stack. 😊 Really nice game, bought it last week and I looking forward to play it with my group.
Aragorn DID carry around kingsfoil after that first time and brought it out again but noted that some of its effectiveness had diminished.
A thought on the #2 talent: perhaps adding a 1d4 to damage would work better- it implies proficiency in that they can't roll a 1 dmg for that weapon anymore, plus it gently scales up things like daggers, and makes the longbow a possible 12 dmg.
A thought about the Herbalism feat.: Would it be possible that the ranger should be able to dry/store herbs or make them into something like a salve? Just thinking about how Aragon knew what herbs to use and how to apply them. 🤷♀️
I would worrd the attack and damage bonus as: "choose melee or ranged; +1 to attack and damage"
came to see the reason for chainmail but not shields. fair enough. I dig that survivalist skills are intelligence. they definitely are learned skills.
I think I will HB the 3-6 slot as an or/or; "+1 to melee or ranged attacks or damage".
That’s is a beautiful ranger picture.
First, thanks for ranger xD Question from a very curious noob, what editing tool are you using to create this document (Ranger and the Book)?
I look forward to your second crowdfunding (much more)
Thank you, Rodrigo! :) I'm using Adobe InDesign for the layout on all Shadowdark material. You can learn a ton about how to use the program with a good online course by someone like Daniel Walter Scott over on Udemy -- highly recommended!
Looking at the current version and this draft, what made you decide to have an ability that is similar to an ancestry (stimulant and goblin)?
I always thought dual wielding should be the finesse version of two handed weapons, since usually finesse weapons are only one handed. So not extra attacks, just increase the damage die.
Great stuff. FEEDBACK IDEA: the 10-11 result (Improved Herbalism) feels pretty "meh" compared to the other Talents. The Ranger already has advantage on herbalism, this improvement seems redundant. I would much rather see a numerical bonus like the other classes. Perhaps a +1 AC to Armor? (Rangers are Hearty folk) This would make them travel lighter and faster? Also, if it stacks they could really see benefit. Another option could be to allow the Ranger to exert their tactical accumen and reduce a target of their choices AC by -1.
Just some thoughts. Thank you for sharing your process. The first 30 minutes where you were talking about your class design/game-design philosophy was really helpful for those of us who like to hack rules.
What do you think about using a luck token to re-roll on the talent table?
Animal Companions, as we all know, came from the classic 80s documentary "Beastmaster", which is canonical to those who are right-thinking and virtuous.
Ha!! I forgot about Beastmaster!
Aragorn is a VERY special case ranger. The Cheif of the Rangers. And the “chosen one”. So to use him specifically for ranger class is very generous. Maybe the Rangers of the North or The Rangers of Ithilian. When the reach level 10 then they could wield “Anduril”. Aragorn really needed to grow into real worthiness. Just my thought.
Longbowmen and crossowmen used small shields and bucklers when they needed to fight melee. They used falchions, long swords short swords and so on with them. Just my history nerd 2 coppers😊
Easy way to fix action economy with duel weidling if you want to throw it in the game and not let it overshadow two handed or sword and board.
When duel wielder you need to roll 1 higher than a single wielder to hit with your dominant hand. 2 higher to hit with the off hand. One roll, two possible hits.
Critical fails happen at both a 1 and a 2. 1 is a crit fail for both weapons and 2 is a crit fail just for off hand. Duel weilding reduces AC by 1. You're more offensive and less defensive. This way it's a workable option for rangers, fighters and rogues. Also a magic user that wants to staff or wand in one hand and dagger in the other hand gets those penlties making it a lot less appealing, but still an option.
I like the idea for dual wielding granting either +1 to ac or get advantage on damage roll of maon weapon.
The way I'd do it is to give +1damage bonus AND +1AC (melee attacks only)
Two-handed weapons do more damage. Shields grant +2 AC, so I like the idea that 2wf is somewhere between the two
Where can I get a print out of the class
The GW 80s LOTR range of miniatures featured a ranger with a spear fwiw
This is so awesome!
I'm only 20 minutes in, but I've been mentally screaming "Fieldcraft!" at my screen.
What if you have the herbalist or ranger background and choose the ranger class, you can automatically find one herb once per day?
That sounds like a great implementation to me! I might say the DC on the auto-find can't be higher than their level + 10. That way we don't have 1st-level rangers automatically grabbing potions of healing each day.
@@TheArcaneLibrary That makes sense to me. I find that, when I play with my friends we usually don't need to have to worry about restrictions to stop someone from spamming/exploiting a mechanic. But when I play with strangers, more tightly written rules are really beneficial.
I want to see rangers great with hunting weapons, specifically the spear. The spear was the preferred weapon to take down large prey in ancient times
Will there be Monks?
I was at work D: so sad i missed the stream
I like the approach taken here with the Ranger. I wouldn't mind a list of Herbs. Perhaps a Ranger can double near move and fire a bow, they are guerrilla fighters essentially. Also perhaps the way to handle dual wielding or extra attack is advantage or an exploding damage die.
So if we go the Roger Ranger route for the French and Indian wars he should also get a long rifle and a tomahawk ( hand axe is useful in the woods) 🙂
Rolemaster and MERP were the best RPGs for rules for healing herbs.
Advantage on reaction rolls when encountering beasts would’ve be alright.
How about adding an additional damage die for one weapon type?
That way it can stack
Great work! Now do illusionistsbarbariansgnomesdruidsmaybemonks!
Go Kelsey go! Keep on succeeding wildly!
Oh, and paladins!
I feel like foebane should lower morale or force morale checks, as a repellent. Or maybe lower random encounters w said creature
Specialty dagger=like a Bowie knife…having a survival utility of some sort.
Short Sword, Arming Sword, (1 handed) Long Sword (1 or 2 handed) and Great Sword (2 handed) - d6 , d7 , d8/d10 , d12 damage ? A long sword has a longer grip than an Arming sword and a great sword is closer to a pole arm weapon
Herbalism is cool - in my world I have always had magic herbs that only Rangers and Elves can forage.
Warlock - some of your great tables for the 'demands' a Warlock's patron might ask. If you roll bad on the table, the patron might be a real bitch and demands the head of local king, or the heart of one of the PCs. Failing to comply should have consequences, but the Warlock should have a 'get out' clause perhaps.
Overland travel is 100% an instinctive thing. Every animal basically does it. You can train any skill to get better at it, but if any animal can also do it then I think it's more wisdom based. Just my 2 cents.
hi from new orleans!
Aragorn fights the the troll in Moria with a spear
also add staff
who does the art??