Toronto is Killing This Metro Line; What's it Like to Ride?
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- To all the people wondering why I took Flixbus all the way to Scarborough: here you go.
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UPDATE, 8/24/23: Line 3 is officially dead, following a derailment that happened on July 24th. So glad I came up here when I did, and I'm happy that this video now serves as a historical record of the line in its final days.
I hope you have some time to come to Vancouver BC. Our SkyTrain has the same technology as the RT did, but the difference is that we actually modernized it with newer trains and upgraded stations. It's an analogue of what the Scarborough RT could've looked like if it had been properly upgraded. You living in Boston is actually really easy to get to Vancouver, JetBlue has a nonstop flight here and it takes just over 5 hours.
Thank you for this detailed ride and review. I grew up in east end Toronto and rode this hundreds of times. I wanted to take a final ride and never got the chance. Appreciate your perspective. By the way the benches are divided like that partly as an anti transient measure.
@@naturallyherbAs I understand it, the Scarborough RT was built in a fashion that limited it to using the original cars only. Because some of the turns were at minimum distances, newer trains wouldn't fit. Perhaps it's not overly surprising that it was done that way because TTC was forced to use it. It's just unfortunate that they never allowed for streetcars or something else to fit at some point in the future. Of course, who would have foreseen that the manufacturer would decide to only build bigger cars and increase the minimum turning circle in the future.
Come visit Vancouver and speed run the SkyTrain system! If you get here before ~2029 you'll be able to ride the same Mark 1 cars as was on the Scarborough RT. Just got the first new replacement trainset for those a month ago.
Also, we used to have a great pedestrian overpass to a massive mall but they redid one of the stations, disconnected the overpass, but didn't demolish it so it's been a bridge to nowhere for like 5 years now.
@@ringringlingling which station?
Great episode of RM Trans-- I mean, Miles in Transit.
It's official! You captured the Scarborough RT (Line 3) in its final days.
TTC just announced today (August 24) via press release that the Scarborough RT is not reopening following the July 24th derailment, and will remain permanently closed.
Therefore, this video is now historical!
Hey @MilesinTransit - this should be a pinned comment.
I'll write one!
Apparently, the trains were supposed to be fully automated, but the TTC union protested and they had to jerry-rig a cab in there, reducing internal space and the driver still does very little except watch.
Transit companies try not to get rid of the most interesting parts of their system challenge (impossible)
theyre replacing it with smth useful, slowly
A coworker of mine once said that the desires of service planners are totally antithetical to the desires of foamers...I think about that a lot.
Not like they had much choice unfortunately
With Line 3 Scarborough being replaced by several TTC bus routes in Scarborough to make way for the eastern expansion of Line 2 Bloor-Danforth, Detroit People Mover’s parent company; Detroit Transportation Corporation is acquiring Line 3 Scarborough railcars as part of an upgrade to make more efficient.
1:11 it’s not a coat hanger. It’s for stuff like ride guides and system maps. They punch a hole in the corner and then you just tear it off.
Ohhhhh! That makes more sense!
i think the seprate waiting area was a smoking lounge very common in the 80s
From what I understand, Line 3 has to close because it's physically in the way of the rail corridor where the Kennedy GO station refresh will finish (they have rebuilt one platform but the Line 3 station is in the way of the other platform). In two years, the TBMs will arrive and the tunneling will need the space to be excavated and connected to the existing line. They have to close the line. :(
That's not the reason it's closing. They designed the expanded GO station that way because they already had already decided to close the SRT
Nah, its because the rolling stock is almost 40 years old and is suffering from poor reliability. It also cannot be replaced without a custom order, as the rolling stock family it is a part of has changed such that it cannot be accommodated on the tight curves
Line 3 is being closed because of politics. Even though the cheapest option would be to convert it to LRT or simply refurbish the line so that the problematic curves are removed and the newer trains can be purchased. Instead, Scarborough felt like they were too good for an LRT line and that they deserved "subways subways subways" so now we're stuck spending several billion extra dollars to build a subway line that will literally provide worse transit than the line it replaced or the alternative LRT option which would have been cheaper and featured more stations.
@@jacobfalardeau676well tbh the current corridor isn’t all that great. The stations were put in place with the expectation that more development would come than what eventually happened (Lawrence and Ellesmere particularly). The new routing for the line 2 expansion is exponentially better in terms of local connection. Additionally it was always kinda seen as temporary
I'm rewatching this, and I didn't even notice that the doors slide open from the outside, I've never seen that before. I'm used to the doors opening into the train, where passengers can't touch them.
Wow, ellesmere really gave North Philadelphia station vibes
A major headache about the line is the fact it really doesn't get along with our winters. The line tends to get shut down a couple of times during the winter months and when it is running there may be a slow order in place on the line. The Reaction Rail (the centre one) needs to be unobstructed to maintain a reaction with the trains Linear-Induction Motors and in the winter months snow and ice can build up on the Reaction Rail putting the entire line out of service for a couple of hours or even a full day depending on the severity of the snow/ice build up. Another source of problems for the line although not as severe is its ATC signalling system which uses Axle Counters. The counters can be fooled into thinking a train is on the tracks by something obstructing it like say a fallen leaf in the fall; and thus send faulty information to the computer system resulting in any trains in the vicinity having there breaks engage automatically for no real reason (I've experienced this on at least 2 occasions). This is a problem that only seems to affect the line between Lawrence East and Kennedy as that's where most of the foliage is. This isn't an issue on most if not all modern ATC systems which use transponders to relay information to the computer.
Why would they build a transit line that doesn't pair well with the local climate?
@@robotx9285 I have an entire video on my channel looking at the history of the line (although I am planning on making a better updated version in the future). But long story short the technology used by the line (and in other places like Vancouver) was developed by the Province of Ontario and they needed a guinea pig to show off these trains to the world. Originally they went to a city just west of Toronto called Hamilton but they declined so they came to Toronto which at the time was planning the Scarborough RT as an LRT line. The Province was essentially like "Hey we see you're planning this new line into Scarborough! Why don't you use our new trains instead and we'll pay for all the conversion expenses (also we pay for 1/3rd of the TTC operating budget so either use our trains or no more money). The Province definitely lied about some things including the trains instability in inclimate wheather, since they would have known about this from testing but they desperately needed someone to show off the trains or more accurately they needed a city in Ontario since at the time Vancouver was the only city to buy in at the time and it would look strange if the trains developed in Ontario weren't used anywhere in Ontario. So there was definitely a political motivation to get these trains running somewhere in Ontario even though the Province would have known they didn't really agree with our climate.
Those train cars are being reused for the people mover in Detroit! Unfortunately its probably going to be less busy, as the people mover only goes one way around a loop. Its kinda useless and nobody really rides it rn. They're also upgrading the stations to have a live schedule and better security tho. Hopefully the modifications will make it quieter and a smoother ride.
It's disconcerting where it's just like Vancouver's classic Mark I SkyTrain cars, but then the door close chimes go down instead of up (and without the extra quarter-beat pause before the third chime).
They're the exact same trains.
Glad I made a trip up in January to ride it, although I made my way to line 3 via GoTransit instead of TTC! Speaking of, now, I have to get back up there to ride the GoTransit commuter run to London, since apparently that’s going away end of year too.
When I foamed this line I stood at the very front and pressed my phone up against the tinted window. There was a little spot were the tinting was cracked and I could actually get a shot. Pretty foamer behavior. It gets worse... The train was packed. So I'm standing in the middle of like 100 people with my phone pressed up against the glass in a bright red Bike Share shirt for my city's local bike share program. When the train emptied out and we waited at McCowan to go back to my friend started dying laughing. It was at that moment that I realised I was a certifiable foamer.
I support you and your reckless lifestyle
As unique as this line is, its destruction is probably for the best. It's built in a similar vein to the SkyTrain in Vancouver, but without the modernized rolling stock. Those old trains are super loud. Its replacement (the line 2 extension) will be welcomed.
Surprised you didn’t mention that it used the same rolling stock as the Vancouver SkyTrain! The UTDC ICTS MK1
Vancouver has those left, but they are MK.1 trains made up until the 90s and not all original 80s ones. They have also been upgraded many times along the way. The rest of the trains in Vancouver are MK.2 and newer. They have already announced retirement first of Mk.1s fully in the next few years.
To replace those, 203 brand new Mk.5 ones have been ordered.
I rode this noisy rat trap when I visited Toronto a few months ago. Great video as usual
Thanks!
Wow that was an aural and auditory feast! Even your Boston accent is coming back strong!
Payphones at all TTC stations work. They can be used for calling a suicide helpline free of charge.
Where I live in DC I commonly see people in wheelchairs going up escalators. It was pretty shocking when I first saw it. Of course if the station isn’t level boarding than it doesn’t even matter🥲
Really?? Every station in DC has elevators though!
@@MilesinTransit Yeah it’s great! But I often see them out of order or under maintenance. Which sucks especially where I live near King Street-Old Town station there’s 3 elevators but if one was out of order the closest is across a 4 lane stroad (with no crossing light) and the other is a decent distance away. I love how WMATA has elevators at all stations but they have a few flaws when it comes to maintenance. The only wheelchair users I see using escalators are the people with non motorized wheelchairs and it’s only when either someone is already waiting for the elevator, or during morning/evening rush. I’ve also seen it happen in European cities as many stations (at least in Poland) don’t have elevators.
Sol in Madrid has an elevator that goes between Lines 2 and 3 (Or is it 1&2, could be both but one only connects to the other's platform in opposing directions because of how the station is layed out)
i feel like the ttc have done the commuters who use line 3 real dirty because they couldnt have just either extended the life just enough for the extension to open or convert the line into a temporary light rail or busway or if its that bad they could run it during peak times only
The busway plan is planned, iirc they're going to take some money from the Gardener expressway rebuild project and use it for the BRT.
@@riceexe is the busway along the former alignment of the rt?
@@ahuman9143 Yes
10:45 In fairness, the sign in the elevator at the _other_ station said that you should have gotten off on that side here for the elevator.
Ohhhh okay!
I love Miles' existential crisis at the end hehe.
11:30 perhaps the elevator was intended for Australia and TTC was able to obtain them cheaply?
Not from Toronto (or even North America). But I think they should convert line 3 into an extension of line 5. Make a sharp turn north and exist onto the line 3 right of way. You have the corridor, keep using it. On the upside if line 3 is such a state of repair, because line 5 uses glorified streetcars, you could replace viaduct’s with surface tracks and level crossings if needed.
The plan is for GO Transit to finally double track the Stoufville line.
TTC can't extend line 5 east or north because the Line 2 extension tunnel is in the way. Instead, they will build a separate streetcar/LRT line into Scarborough (google Eglinton east LRT).
That was sort of what was originally planned (not exactly an extension, but to convert it to LRT that would have connected it to Line 5, because the tracks were already the right gauge). A new mayor killed the plan.
7:00 she's warning you that there's something horrendous down there
No water fountains on the line? Needs to be closed asap
Is it closing permenantly? I thought it was going to reopen in 2030. I tried to research it but I canfind any info thats clear. I'm from England btw but I like looking at north american transit as my city has north american level transit - And it just got worse with the bus lanes being removed.
They're extending Line 2 to cover some (but not all) of the service formerly served by this.
@@MilesinTransit Ah ok thank you
0:39 Scarborough Center and what now?
oops
Miles,
How much does it cost, too ride the subway in Toronto? Fun video.
If you use the Presto fare card it's $3.30 for adults, $2.35 for youths 13-19, and $2.25 for seniors 65+
cAnADiAn dOLlArS
@@alistairlogie1815 Thank you, for the information.
@@sethward4922 np
Every single part of this Line's history is a chapter in the failure of urban transit policy in Ontario. It's a really interesting story of political interference in transit planning.
From the very start the line was marred by meddling, it was originally intended to be an elevated streetcar line but the province of Ontario was looking for a test city for their new Intermediate Capacity Transit System (ICTS) technology which used linear induction motors. Canada's industrial policy is really interesting, in the 70s and 80s, the government would start up crown corporations in things like aircraft building, computers, transit systems with the intent of privatising them once they are profitable to encourage the development of these industries in Canada. ICTS was intended to fill the gap for Ontario's mid-sized cities like Hamilton that were growing too large for buses but not large enough to warrant a full subway. After Hamilton City Council declined building the line (Largely due to rich residents on the Mountain who didn't like the fact it was elevated), the province was left without a city to test it in so they looked at the transit projects they were currently funding and found the Scarborough RT to be the perfect replacement. They go to Toronto who are completely uninterested in the project but the province essentially states they won't fund any other lines and they're the ones paying for it. In prior decades, the TTC was profitable and able to fund it's own expansion but the growth of urban sprawl caused them to stop being profitable by the 70s which made them extremely reliant on provincial funding for big capital projects. Seeing this, they are forced to build the line using the new ICTS tech instead of the streetcars as was planned which is why you have that loop to nowhere at Kennedy. In the late 90s and 2000s, the city embarks on a project where they convert streetcar lines into the bare minimum of what you can consider a dedicated lane like you see on St. Clair and Spadina, for some reason, the city decides to label these new upgraded streetcars as "LRT lines". When they don't live up to people's expectations, it completely kills the political viability of LRT because now the public equates them with "glorified streetcars", this is important for later context.
In the mid 2000s, the TTC realises that they're going to need new trains but there's a huge problem, there's a problematic curve that makes it so that the newer ICTS trains (now made by Bombardier) can't fit on the tracks. So the TTC does a study and determines that it would cost them $190 million dollars to retrofit the line and another 200 million to buy the new trains but the TTC didn't have the funding so they never seriously persued that proposal even though it would have solved the problem with the line for 390 million dollars. Soon enough, it's the 2010s and the line's age is really starting to show and the trains are falling apart, everyone hates Line 3 because it's a weird ugly duckling of a line and Scarborough feels like they got shorted out of a proper "subway". New mayor, Rob Ford gets elected largely due to the support of suburbanites in Scarborough, North York, and Etobicoke and his big campaign pledge is "LRT SUCKS - SUBWAYS SUBWAYS SUBWAYS".
2010 onwards is a period of constant fighting and back-and-forth, transit experts and Metrolinx (the regional transit planning agency) originally preferred replacing the line with an LRT because it was by-far the cheapest option and it would also have a larger number of stations which means more people are able to walk to a station. Local residents and politicians however, feel like Scarborough was short-changed to begin with so they demand that the line be replaced by an extension of Line 2 because it would be a "proper subway" and eliminate the transfer at Kennedy although at a slightly higher price tag equal to THREE TIMES MORE MONEY, the subway would also have only a few stations compared to the LRT. So now the fighting and dithering is on whether or not it should be an LRT or a subway line but you also have some really cool sub-plots where the subway will only be a one-stop extension to Scarborough Centre, or sometimes it's got 3 stops, sometimes it goes all the way to Sheppard Avenue. Absent from any of these discussions, of course, is the older proposal to retrofit the line for under half a billion dollars, a proposal which would be WAAAAAY cheaper than even the LRT plan.
And now here we are today, as a result of all the dithering that has happened over the last 15 years, the decision was finally made to replace line 3 with a 3 stop subway extension but the decision was made so late that the subway won't open for about 8 years after Line 3 closes which means 8 years of sitting in traffic on buses if you live in Scarborough but don't worry because you'll have slightly worse transit than before when it opens. This completely negates one of the main benefits of the subway plan which was the fact the subway could be built without closing Line 3 during the retrofit. As someone in Toronto's transit scene, I'm not happy with the choice of replacement but I'm more than happy that we don't need to waste hours arguing about "subway vs. lrt in scarborough" anymore.
This story is both tragic and hilarious...thank you so much for writing it all out!
I feel like being not accessible means it’s at most a 1/10
Canada still has pay phone 😂
Liminal spaces in industrial Toronto. Nice.
APAHTments
A lot of people are pointing out that I misinterpreted the Ontario jaywalking laws - I based the fine off of skimming a 2013 Toronto Star article, but commenters have inspired me to do more intensive research, and it turns out that, bizarrely, the law only applies to intersections. Once you get 90 meters away from an intersection, you're free to cross wherever you want, so I would have been fine. But also, I think the jaywalking fine bit is funny and I stubbornly refuse to change the amount once something's been inputted. Heh.
it's only illegal to cross the street at an intersections that has traffic lights. if there are no traffic lights you can cross the street anytime you want and it is always legal to cross any street midblock
Yeah the Highway Traffic Act is somewhat strange when it comes to crossing streets.
S. 144 (22) of the Highway Traffic Act states: "Where portions of a roadway are marked for pedestrian use, no pedestrian shall cross the roadway except within a portion so marked." However, the common interpretation of this section is that it only applies within 90 metres of the crossing, as you've indicated.
Otherwise, there is no section of the Highway Traffic Act which specifically forbids a pedestrian from crossing anywhere else along the road, as long as they cross legally (i.e. the pedestrian does not "leave the curb or other place of safety ... [to] run or move into the path of a vehicle that is so close that it is impracticable for the driver of the vehicle to comply with subsection (1)" s. 39 (2). Technically, this section of the law is in regards to signed pedestrian crossovers, but the same principles are applied to non-signed pedestrian crossings). As well s. 144 (28) specifies that "Every pedestrian who lawfully enters a roadway in order to cross may continue the crossing as quickly as reasonably possible despite a change in the indication he or she is facing and, for purposes of the crossing, has the right of way over vehicles." which basically means that as long as a pedestrian entered the street to cross safely, they are entitled to have right-of-way as they cross.
Now most Ontarians believe that we have the same laws as the US does which forbid crossing a road anywhere which is not signed to (jaywalking), but the actual laws on this matter state otherwise. It's why you'll see people rush across the road when crossing mid-block.
That's not bizarre, that's how it works in most countries around the world. Strict jaywalking laws are as American as apple pie.
¡You're really going to hate California! Jaywalking is now illegal only if it's dangerous.
Legend has it that the passenger at 7:00 is still running to this day. The bus sign at 5:01 is so 80s and honestly kinda cute...I love how much of a time capsule this system is. And I mean yeah, some of these stations might not have much to it (Ellesmere in particular has definitely seen better windows but tbf those windows are like that bc it once had an art installation called "AM I OK? by Tabban Soliemani and I guess they didn't care how they took it down ...quite the irony), but I've seen worse stations...Yaphank on the LIRR comes to mind with its weird approach road, no ticket machine, and its location is one half county gov buildings and the other half a building materials supplier. Also, it's supposed to be automated, but they kept human operators because of opposition from both the transit workers' union, and public perception that accidents would occur (no accident on the Vancouver SkyTrain!).
So basically, the story of Line 3 is the TTC was gonna build a streetcar (hence the tight loop at Kennedy), but the Ontario government saw German technology, carried it on when the West German government stopped funding development by KraussMaffei, and wanted a place to test this technology in Canada so they were like "Build this...OR ELSE" to the TTC. I know Line 3 is a joke of a line at this point, but whether people like it or not, this line helped pave the way for other systems around the world. The Vancouver SkyTrain, Riyadh Metro, Kuala Lumpur's Kelana Jaya Line, Beijing Subway's Airport Express, AirTrain JFK, Yongin's EverLine, and the Detroit People Mover all use Innovia Metro/ART rolling stock!
Was this the one where the friends got separated? On my visits to Toronto, I had my first experience with people running to get in the trains before the doors closed. I never ran. I knew my wait was minimal till the next one showed up. I think the Torontonians are physically conditioned to move at the necessary speed to make that train. I don't think I ever looked at my watch. Of course, I wasn't trying to get to my job.
Ah yes, Midland...well they're right about the mid part since it's not accessible💀. They only used that loop at Kennedy from 1985 to 1988. This is because the line began using two-car trains, which were able to travel along the turning loop, but was later converted to use four-car trains, which could not be operated along the tight loop. Thus, the use of the loop for reversals was discontinued after 1988, although the loop has been occasionally used as a tail track to store trains. The loop was originally for a streetcar project but alas, this was built instead.
Incorporated in 1850 as a township, the district of Scarborough became part of Metropolitan Toronto in 1953 and was reconstituted as a borough in 1967. It became a city in 1983 before becoming a part of present Toronto in 1998. The mall opened in 1973 and is in the top five of the biggest malls in Canada. The area is named after the English town of Scarborough by Elizabeth Simcoe who was the wife of John Graves Simcoe, the first lieutenant governor of Upper Canada because the bluffs along the Lake Ontario shores reminded her of the limestone cliffs of Scarborough.
Kim Jong-Un always comin through with the quality comments
Man the public tranist in North Korea must be amazing. You really seem to know your stuff Supreme Leader.
The loop exists because the line was originally planned to be operated by CLRV streetcars which only have doors on the right side. Later the Ontario government forced the TTC to instead use the new ICTS technology they had developed, as a demonstration project.
The Ontario Transit Development Corporation was later renamed UTDC and then bought by Bombardier which itself was bought by Alstom
@@JacksonBetz Always! I don't feel I've had the full experience unless I read the KimJong and AverytheCubanAmerican comments.
Dear leader you know so much, maybe u might now how to feed ur people?
Good thing you squeezed this in before Monday's derailment. I have a feeling it's never going to run again.
I'm VERY glad I managed to get a ride in now.
So they do derail. That must be fascinating to fix. Actually in addition, I was pondering the scale of just repair and maintenance on hundreds of subway trains. Never seen what TTC repair facility looks like. Are there thousands of mechanics keeping the incalculable population of trains fixed?
@@MilesinTransit when was this video filmed? you chose the right time of day to film this day.
It's so strange that they think something built in 1985 isn't salvageable. Europe is full 100 year old metros and that's just normal.
As do cities in US, some with routes since 1880s.
the TTC never wanted it built in the first place so was just counting down to the time to when they could justify closing it.
city doesnt want to spend the money to refurbish it because the route sucks, ridership is low and it creates a bottleneck in the system.
5:27 - crossing mid-block if you yield to car traffic is not considered jaywalking in Toronto and is perfectly legal
See pinned comment!
You would have given Ellesmere station a 1/10 if you had to look for the station from Ellesmere Rd. itself, it could possibly take you 10-15 minutes of hunting for it if you didn't already know where it was. It's that well hidden.
It's a crime that Ellesmere station was there for 40 years with so little development. The most liminal TTC station by far
Okay, this is mandatory to say, but Miles (5:30) jaywalking is not a thing in Canadian law. Crossing mid-block, as it is known, is legal unless in obstructs traffic. In cases like you've shown at Midland, people always cross just as you did, it is legal and at some point the city might actually make it into a proper on-demand crosswalk with a stop light for cars activated by a beg button. The only way to get a ticket in Toronto is if you enter an expressway on foot, which would violate the provincial Highway Act, or if you cross on a crosswalk on red, which is a municipal by-law (rarely enforced). However, the US cultural dominance is so apparent, that most suburban Canadians have no idea that 'jaywalking' is not a thing and crossing any city street is something you are legally allowed to do.
See pinned comment!
As an outsider, when I see the price of gasoline, I wonder how all those cars are on the street. And why 90 percent of cars aren't hybrid to at least stretch the gallons of gas. Managing personal cash flow must be a treat in Ontario.
@@JimMork Canada has a relatively affordable gasoline by global standards, if anything, it's too cheap. I don't have a car, so managing cash flow is not hard. People who have a car spend a lot, mainly on insurance though.
@@ramzanninety-five3639 Did some rough math. I pay $.97 per liter. Torontonians pay abou $1.70. However, the exchange rate. But maybe when you figure a Canadian dollar is 74 cents to the US, somehow it comes out closer. Still perplexes me why Canadians don't buy only hybrid cars. I guess it must be the Alberta oil.
@@JimMork Eastern Canada imports almost half of its oil, with Atlantic provides being dependant on the Persian Gulf for oil supplies, while most of Albertan oil is exported to the USA and not consumed domestically. Believe it or not, this is actually cheaper than sending Albertan oil to Nova Scotia or Newfoundland
Compared to the Scarborough Town Centre mall, Newport Centre in Jersey City is much better-connected mall by transit with the HBLR, jitneys, and the PATH! Newport is the busiest HBLR stop! And between 2006 to 2012, they actually looked into extending the RT to Malvern, which has a lot of young people! RIP the RT, but its days were numbered and even in this video before the derailment, you can just tell by the way the train sounded that it was being tortured and it wanted this torture to end. Something you didn't mention about Lawrence East is right next to the station to the east, there is this building that has a cool mural that could be seen from the tracks called the East Side Mural, representing Scarborough as much as the RT did.
It became a fixture of the RT for its daily riders. Along with its Lao Tzu quotation. It was created in 1995 by Sady Ducros, a member of the Graffiti Knights. Formed on Halloween 1982, Graffiti Knights’ core members were artist/writers Trax One (Scarborough’s original and most prolific tagger, according to Yvette Farkas’ street-art encyclopedia, Toronto Graffiti), Crazy Roc (later known as Spade, from Scarborough rap collective Citizen Kane), and Treach (nicknamed “the human spider” for his building-scaling prowess). The threesome travelled with an entourage of so-called bodyguards and friends, picking out high-visibility spots for their creations across Scarborough’s east side.
This is shocking, there is still a hefty amount of people riding this line.
The issue is that the line is a very custom system, like the linear induction motors, that isn't used anywhere else on the TTC or other transit systems, it's a one off. Maintenance is getting more and more expensive because parts are no longer available. Now the fact it won't be replaced by the "normal" subway for 7 years is a massive fail for sure, good old politicians, but despite it looking in useable condition the line really is on its last legs.
It had more daily riders than Line 4, or the entire Lakeshore West line. Despite all its problems, in fact in sheer defiance of them, Scarborough RT moved a lot of people
Wow thanks very much guys
1:10 - the "coat hanger" was for free subway train maps
Missed taking this, guess I will never experience- oh wait I grew up in Vancouver: this is the OG (sad and dilapidated) SkyTrain.
Except the door close chimes go down instead of up, which feels so wrong when all the other sounds are just like the SkyTrain Mark I cars.
It might be killed a lot earlier then expected, as today car 3001 looks to have broke away from its couple and other car, it derailed causing what seems the train to break off from its front bogey causing severe damage, likely a total writeoff.
As a 72 yr. old , born and bread Torontonian I can tell you that " hunk o' junk " you were riding on was built by an Ontario Government owned company or " Crown Corporation " as we call them here in Canada and forced on the T.T.C . In its approximately half century of existence it seems to have been out of service more than in . Mechanical problems , snow , ice , you name it and the Scarborough R. T. couldn't handle it . I'm sure that were that noise level you experienced present in any industrial building it would be shut down on workers safety grounds . So as you can plainly tell I'll be brokenhearted to see it go .
Funnily enough though the same technology was used for the system in Vancouver which has been wildly successful. Shame Toronto couldn't make something better out of it, but I guess they walked so Van could run
So today , six days after I made this initial comment , the Rattle Trap was shut down again . This time , a serious derailment . Lord make that thing go away !
Really dumb that Toronto wouldn’t use the money to upgrade it and spend it on LRT instead. Here in Vancouver, we had a LRT plan that we cancelled and we are upgrading our system to plan for the future. Destroying Line 3 would probably be like if we got rid of the Expo Line
They're planning on extending one of the subway lines to the past line of the LRT. Which is honestly a pretty good idea.
Jaywalking is not illegal in Ontario. The only similar law is Highway Traffic Act 144(22) which requires pedestrians to use the crosswalk at intersections where one is present. Other than that, pedestrians are allowed to cross at any location as long as they yield to traffic.
See pinned comment!
Jaywalking fines $1606? In Toronto? I lived in Toronto for 30 years. I estimate I jaywalked easily some 20 to 40 thousand times in my daily life. Toronto is the jaywalking capital of the world. Never seen anyone get a ticket for it. Never HEARD of anyone getting a ticket for it. My record: 40K infractions, $0 fines.
I found this very funny and entertaining! (I watched it while eating cheap, edible lunch on the TGV in France - absolutely losing my mind over how much nicer, faster, better it is than Amtrak)
No hate to Amtrak though, I understand that bad transit infrastructure isn’t *entirely* their fault, but the food could be a bit better
actually a little hate to amtrak bc they just canceled my 69 Adirondack 3 weeks before I was supposed to ride it for the first time since it reopened
Even a old SNCF rural DMU or a former GWR rail bus makes Amtrak look good. I was so disappointed to book a train from Toronto to Niagara Falls through VIA to discover it was 1970's Amfleet stock. It also got woefully delayed on the return!
Update, the system derailed at the end of July and it was just announced that it WILL NEVER REOPEN!
Update: it's closed for good.
3:10 Damn right you can't make fun of it since that's how centre is spelled!
The new system in Montreal opens July 31st. See you there!
if you like loud, weird elevated rapid transit lines with surprisingly good bus connections, come to LA and i can give you a tour of the majestic C/green line
The green line is better than the E because it’s elevated
@@qjtvaddict I would argue it's worse because:
1. It goes basically nowhere of note (will be partly fixed when the LAX people mover is built).
2. LARGE PORTIONS OF IT ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 105 FREEWAY WHICH MAKES (er, cough) the stations very loud. And polluted.
Probably the worst line on the LA Metro Rail network, at least for now (the rump K Line doesn't really go anywhere yet either).
@@Geotpfwell if extended it would be better elevated is always superior to street running.
Wasn't the Scarborough RT built to showcase potential technology initially and then the linear induction technology was used to build Vancouver's SKYtrain?
As for Scarborough Town Centre. Centre is the correct Oxford English spelling. Which Canadian English uses albeit they still miss the U in things like Harbour and Labour. (See Harborfront lrt)
Jaywalking is just a licence to print money. I'm so grateful we don't have it just a waste of police and courts time. Everything in Kernow is AYOR (At your own risk) except for limited access trunk routes, and tunnels which are no pedestrians, equestrians or horse drawn vehicles.
Canadian spelling also included the U in labour and harbour. See for example the Harbourfront Centre in Toronto
i use this weird ass line from Kennedy to Midland and back every day and you absolutely need ear plugs on it especially if you're riding it frequently. also *at least* once a day, it goes down or gets delayed for mechanical issues due to the fact that the trains are falling apart in their old age. also that cute little blue livery the trains have on them is relatively new, they installed it to disguise the fact that the trains are basically rotting and rusting on the outside. they also redid the insides around the same time as well, they originally had seats all throughout the train (no space for wheelchairs/strollers) and a sweet little woodgrain veneer on some of the walls and by the doors.
despite the issues it has, i'm really going to miss this line when it gets shut down in november. aside from needing it to get to work, i still get a little nostalgia kick every day from when i used to take it to go downtown with my mom as a kid. i'll miss the '80s archetecture, the utility of the line, and the various "toronto man" sightings i have had while taking it over the years.
it's always cool seeing a tourist/transit enthusiast perspective on something you make use of as a part of your daily routine, thank you for sharing. this was a fun watch
0:35 Note that it’s Kennedy and Scarborough Centre instead of Kipling and Scarborough Centre, as Kipling is the western terminus of Line 2 Bloor-Danforth. Honest mistake tho since both Kipling and Kennedy start with a “K” and are terminus stations on Line 2
I get them mixed up ALL THE TIME!
fun fact: jaywalking is legal in Toronto
Jaywalking is legal in every country except the U.S.
No other country on the planet has jaywalking laws.
@@TheTroyc1982Not in Singapore
See pinned comment!
It’s incredible how it’s midnight and I’m up watching a Miles in Transit video
Also, is it just me or have we not had a solo video in quite a while?
these solo videos are always a groovy-ass time!!!
@@JacksonBetz any miles video is a groovy time!
I know it sounds bad for Line 3 Scarborough because the TTC is shutting down the line to make way for the expansion of Line 2 Bloor-Danforth. To me, Washington, D.C.’s Metrorail is doing good by recently expanding the Silver Line into Dulles International Airport and Loundon County, Virginia and recently opened up the Potomac Yard station in Alexandria, VA.
And unit 3001 has derailed.
A cool feature at Kennedy is an express escalator directly from the subway platform to ground level skipping the concourse, to make the transfer from Line 2 to Line 3 more convenient
My amusing memory was something called "Kiss and cry" (I probably have that wrong). The place where cars drop off passengers at Kennedy. Maybe that exists everywhere with complex transit systems, but it was a first for me on my visit to GTA. Never drove anything in GTA. But getting a ride to Kennedy was a cultural epiphany for a visitor.
@@JimMork The passenger drop off at TTC stations is called "kiss and ride"
@@OntarioTrafficMan Well, I'm remembering a long time ago. So I'll say "Kiss and [fitb]" Seemed a very practical thing for people who escaped the high cost of downtown and used the Bloor subway. I once parked in Surrey BC to ride Skytrain to Vancouver. But the dropoff at Kennedy was inspired to me.
I really like the station designs on this line. Very 80s, so very cool in my book.
Also, a note about Canadian payphones: between your video, what I've read online, and what I observed on a recent trip to Montreal, it seems Bell Canada puts a lot of effort into keeping their payphones operational, which I think is nice because not everyone has constant access to a cell phone. It's something I wish had been duplicated in the US, instead of companies continually removing them from service or leaving them to fall victim to vandalism.
Is Bell Canada a quasi-governmental operation? That could explain the retention.
@@johnlister Nope, it's just your run-of-the-mill multi-billion-dollar telecommunications company. But I feel like the TTC must make some sort of requirement that every subway platform have a working pay phone on it somewhere, because they always appear to be in great shape (and they also have a special button for a suicide-prevention hotline).
@@frisbeepilot And the TTC actually regulates to provide public benefit!
Jaywalking is legal in Canada :)
See pinned comment!
The train sets are old & at EOL. They won't survive until the replacement is completed. In the winter during a snow storm, snow can get into some cars as door's rubber strip may not run the full length of the door. Same goes when it rains. btw there are no crossover tracks along the line. Only crossovers at Kennedy & McCowan. If there is a mechanical issue with a train, the whole line goes down.
1:38 hey you got the one with weird propulsion! i remember that one going on the tail track because of a mechanical problem, and when it came back, it sounded like that
2:00 surprised that it still works given its connected by an ethernet cable strung along the windowsill
Unfortunatly Line 3 seems to be closing early, a derailment shut it down and our managment seems to not be planning to pring it back before the service is discontinued for good
It's hard to convey how futuristic this line once felt. Buses inside the gate line is a Toronto thing; at Lawrence station on line 1, they even go underground (and drive on the left while doing so).
Also York Mills as well.
St. Clair West Stn. as well - also the streetcars go underground, in both eastbound and westbound directions.
if you give way to vehicular traffic, jaywalking isn't illegal in Toronto! You incurred no additional jaywalking fines on your trip.
For the elevator button numbering, I think they do it that way to keep in line with other underground stations (the majority of stations). For example:
1☆ - Street Level
2 - Concourse (below street)
3 - Platforms (below concourse)
The numbering makes more sense when the station is underground (the higher the number, the deeper you are from street level).
Your point about jaywalking is true in all of Ontario, not just Toronto. Probably other provinces too but I haven't looked them up specifically
fancy seeing you here
See pinned comment!
Also for the elevator numbering, I guess that makes sense! But it also...doesn't make a ton of sense.
@@MilesinTransit This weird numbering is due to our weird choice to number the ground floor as 1 rather than 0. In Europe you'd just have 0, -1, -2, which seems more intuitive. Floor -1 is one storey below ground, etc
The main reason for the early shutdown is the trains are too old and there's no replacement stock available that can take the tight turns. There was a lot of municipal waffling over how the line would be replaced which led to the choice they finally went with, the subway extension, being super delayed and thus a 7+ year gap of no train service. At least the new mayor-elect wants to see the Kennedy-Ellesmere portion converted to a busway ASAP.
At least in my view you had a Rick Moranis style delivery and he is Canadian
Haha, thank you so much!!
So what'll happen to the people that might actually need it? I assume it'll stick around as a training segment.
I think the plan is to convert the line to a busway for a bit and then scrap it entirely once the Line 2 extension opens.
Rest in Peace Scarbrough RT.
Good thing you visited when you did - though shutdown was scheduled for November, there was a bad derailment last month and it hasn't run since. Today they announced it is permanently closed.
When this line first opened in 1985, I was wondering why they just didn’t extend the Bloor Danforth Subway. Of course that’s what they will eventually do almost 40 years later…
As I remember it, the TTC was forced to have the extension built with these incompatible trains and track because of an Ontario crown corporation that wanted to have a pilot installation of their new technology. If the TTC wanted funding from the provincial government, they were "encouraged" to go with this. It didn't end up very successful, as only Vancouver and Detroit ever ended up buying this same system.
@@debestcanadian The JFK Airtrain also uses linear induction motors, but the rolling stock is Alstom.
It reminds me of the monorail episode of “The Simpsons”! 😁
The reason Line 2 never went to STC in the first place back in the 80's was cost. For perspective the original segment of Line 2 from Woodbine to Keele (12km, 21 stations) cost $60 Million to build in 1966. By comparison the 1 stop extension from Warden to Kennedy at only 2.7km cost around $76 million to build only a decade later. The fact that a 1 stop extension of the subway cost more than the original 21 stop line a decade earlier was not lost on either the TTC or Metro Toronto and that's why in the 70's Metro Toronto declared the extensions to Kennedy and Kipling to be the last subway extensions in Toronto and the city would focus on cheaper solutions like LRT hence the Scarborough RT and the unbuilt Etobicoke RT. Looking at the dramatic increase in cost to extend the line even 2km meant that neither Metro Toronto or the old City of Scarborough were ready to eat the cost of an extension even further into Scarborough at the time. By the 80's the city was looking to build subways again but the RT project was already under construction.
@@johnlisterNo, it is Bombardier too at JFK.
Welcome to Canada! I have never seen the elevator buttons in reverse order like that must just be a ttc thing? Great video I visited Toronto in February and rode line 3.
Yes it's just a TTC thing
It makes sense when you’re at an underground station. The deeper the floor, greater the number.
Normal Canadian elevators use greater numbers for higher levels like elsewhere in the world
Hey miles I agree with your ranking with McCowan station. Its there to help trains turn around and for foamers and for emplpyees. Atlast you didnt review the kennedy station washrooms. Great vid btw sad it has to close
Surprised the transfer boxes are still there, I was last in Toronto in 2007, and they were still using tokens (really small size, I have one leftover token somewhere (bought a pack of them from a clerk at St Andrew). Sadly I couldn’t keep the transfer as I needed it to use the Airport Rocket bus.
Toronto was like New York but clean and much friendlier (and padded subway seats! The only nicer seats I’ve found were on the London Underground because the seats are padded AND they have arm rests between you and your neighbors.)
What did the tokens look like?
well this aged well LOL
You got lucky as the recent (July 24) derailment took the whole system offline and it will not be brought back, officially ending the life of the Scarborough Line 3 way ahead of Nov 18 schedule.
Haven't watched the whole video yet so forgive me if this is answered later! But what are they replacing this line with? Is there a bus line that parallels a bunch of it or something
Ooooh side note I love the quality Novabus action at 10:08
They are replacing it with an extension of subway line 2. However that won't be for several years so the TTC is proposing to build a temporary busway using the space freed up by demolishing Line 3
I know how much you love streetcars, so I hate to break it to you that this line was originally gonna be a streetcar. As for what's replacing this system, it's gonna be a subway extension, and Line 3 will be turned into a dedicated busway as a temporary solution, an approach that has been championed by Olivia Chow.
Nice video it’s sad that the lines going away I feel like they coulda renovated it to be kinda like the Vancouver skytrain or something and that would have been a better use for the line.
I don’t thing the Mark 2 or 3 trains could be used on Line 3 due to the tight at the one end. Newer cars are longer. Even in Vancouver which has really run with the system had a special car used on the system to test the geometry of a newer design on the system. (May have been payed for by Bombardier) this test mule is store at a train museum in Squamish along with the Royal Hudson. I suspect the TTC would have pressed to have driver on those too. It was never intended to have them. That being said those old trains and stations with some love could have likely lasted them longer until 2030. It seems TTC is really fixated on a full blown subway design. Also fixated on not using the old right of way of line 3.
3:19 Actually the spelling of CENTRE is the correct British English spelling of the word.
11:20 No. Reversed elevator numbers are a Toronto subway thing. It makes sense when you’re at an underground station like Finch on Line 1. The deeper the floor, the greater number.
Not a Canadian thing. 🇨🇦
This line was originally supposed to be a street car line that is why there is a turning loop at Kennedy and you can seethe lowered tiled street car platform! But I guess no more!
If you are ever going to Montreal to film so transit there, I would recommend coming the day that the new automated metro system REM (Reseau Express Metropolitain) Since it will be one of the biggest projects in quebec since the building of the Montreal metro.
There actually is no fine for jaywalking in Toronto, it is legal. You can get a ticket for “disrupting traffic” if you crossed the street unsafely.
This is just stupid, we need trains and proper transit, hopefully it gets renovated and redone to be reopened.
It’s funny to see the jaywalking fines you showed because actually in Ontario jaywalking is completely legal as long as pedestrians adhere to right of way
The east end of Toronto (Scarborough) has always been an overlooked portion of the city. The rest of Toronto always seems to know what Scarborough deserves because "the numbers say so" but the are has had to deal with the RT for almost 40 years. An LRT system was rightfully a tough sell to the residents of Scarborough after having to ride that notoriously unreliable POS. So happy Scarborough is getting more subway, it is decades overdue, even though the current plans still do not go anywhere near far enough. It needs to connect to an extended Sheppard East subway. Toronto has a nasty habit of not connecting its subway lines into logical loops.
Also, despite living in Scarborough most of my life and literally riding the RT thousands of times, I've never once used the elevators at Kennedy.
Also, with regards of running the RT into the ground, it HAS been run into the ground. As I recall, the service life of the RT was supposed to end in 2010. The blue vinyl you see on the cars was applied to hide the massive discolouring of the plastic. The metal was literally rotted away and they had to do a massive rebuild of the cars. Every time it snows (and it's Toronto, so it's not infrequent) they take the stupid system offline and go to shuttle buses. The system pretty much couldn't survive another winter.
I'm scared this will happen to the cta yellow line, today's the one month anniversary of the crash and subsequent service suspension.
The elevator buttons… my university used to have buttons that were actually in reverse, like the bottom floors were at the top and the top floors were at the bottom. too bad i didn’t take a picture before they fixed it
The becnh armrest in the middle... that’s not a real armrest, that’s anti-homeless hostile architecture
The sound of it departing made me think I was in Vancouver for a second
These stock are gonna be on their way out in the next couple of years, in Vancouver too. :(
There's also Go bus connections at Scarborough Town Centre at entrance #7. I've been there many a time. Only downside is that there is a bit of a walk from the go bus terminal to/from the mall.