Proper piping for a dedicated circulation line on a Rinnai RUR series unit.
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- Опубліковано 6 кві 2019
- Here is the second half of the circulation videos on the piping for a dedicated line to a RUR series unit.
the RUR unites can handle 100 feet of 1/2" circulation piping and 400 feet of 3/4" piping.
The circulation gets connected back into the cold water feed of the tankless with two check valves( SPRING CHECK VALVES ONLY) the check valves are there to prevent cold water from backing up into the circulation line or circulation water backing up into the cold water line . Its good to install a separate isolation valve on your return line in case you need to close it off. if you want you can install a drain valve before the valve.
Bleeding procedures for a RUR series unit.
At this time do not plug the unit into the electric outlet or turn the power on to it.
After you turn the water on in the house, pop the relief valve to bleed any air from the tankless
Next go to all the faucets in the house and bleed any air from the hot and the cold. Take your time and get all the air out of the piping.
After that's done go to the tankless and bleed out two to three pints of water from the black bleeder fittings first under the cold side and then from under the pump side. Once that's done pop the relief valve one more time and you are ready to set the tankless and test for hot water.
I hope you enjoyed this video and was helpful with the piping on your new unit.
If you have a question please e mail me at economyplmbg@aol.com.
Thanks Mike - Навчання та стиль
Mike, thanks for answering my questions regarding my Rinnai Sensei RU 160in unit. Your knowledge and expertise is greatly appreciated!
What a wonderful video, filled with very useful information for anyone interested in installing a tankless water heater; and particularly the Rinnai. Thank you, Mike!
Mike is awesome, I am getting ready to install a hot water return. Once installed I can make sure the house has hot water at appropriate times.
thanks for taking my call for my Bleed Issue on my RUR unit... i plan to test it out this week
UA-cam randomly connected my to your channel. I'm not in the market for a tankless hot water heater but as a father with three sons and their late 20s I would've liked to of worked in the trades with them as you do with your son. Your presentation was excellent and for that reason our new subscriber. Be blessed happy holidays
i really enjoyed the video... Great tips Mike and appreciate it tremendously...
Thank you for this video. Helped mucho lol. 👍🏻
Very good information, thank you!
Awesome job. Thank you.
We always put a drain bibb on our return as well. I'm glad to learn about them checks to be spring because I've got a few I've had to change or find out why the brand new heater isn't working correctly. Thx
I’m glad it helped
Awesome Awesome video. Thank you
Awesome, thank you.
Excellent video Mike. Now you see why I wanted you to do our house near Savannah!
New Vision Security Services to bad we don’t live closer.
@@TheBuddylab hey it's all about the cost. You just give me a price, the rest I'll make happen!
New Vision Security Services call me tonight after 6:pm at 904-238-5349
nice video
Thanks buddy
Mike is 110% legit. His videos are so helpful. BIGGEST of all, he helped me over phone and email with some of my questions. TOP NOTCH. Dear reader, subscribe to this guy. He is amazing !!!
You're very knowledgable and your videos are clear and informative! Thank you.
I have an RUR199iN. I'm waiting to connect the recirculation line until Rinnai's new Dedicated Recirculation Valve (Rinnai P/N 107000450) becomes available. Right now, the 1/2" return line is coiled and capped near the unit. According to Rinnai Customer Service last month (Dec 2019), the new part is being manufactured in Japan for Rinnai, and was to be drop-shipped to Rinnai distributers sometime in January of 2020. Based on this video, it looks like the recirc line can also be plumbed to the cold intake line with locally available parts, including a couple of important check valves. Question #1: Time is not a problem. Should I bother waiting for Rinnai's DRV, or just plumb the recirc as shown in this video? Question #2: Rinnai's new DRV has a check valve on the recirc side, but not on the cold water supply side. If I use it, would I still need to add the check valve upstream on the cold intake side per your vedeo? LINK TO RINNAI P/N 1007000450 "Dedicated Recirculation Valve" PRODUCT DATA SHEET: media.rinnai.us/salsify_asset/s-8f81e23e-c8a7-465b-a48f-6be51a6eecc2/100000663%20Dedicated%20Recirculation%20Valve%20Overview.pdf?_ga=2.176458917.148679418.1578948653-1847627683.1578948653 Thanks!
Thanks for the video. I have a Rinnai RU 199in with circ logic. It doesn’t have a built in recirc pump so I’d like to install one. Do you have a video on how to install a pump?
Hey mike nice video but in Arkansas we can’t terminate the condensation line outside due to freezing. Does it never get cold where your located? Thanks
Awesome video series - I have a Zurn quick port manifold distribution system - and just ordered a RUR199IN to replace a 75 gallon rheem - what's the best way to do a dedicated return line? Unit sits under master bedroom, laundry area in basement.
You save me.
Mike great video, but sediment trap should be on the appliances
Fantastic video, as always. Quick question: Given the hot water recirc is now a closed system, does the RUR series require a thermal expansion tank be installed?
Yes you can install one and ST10 Mike
Thanks Mike , very informative. Is the RSC199IN very similar in set up for dedicated return line and or bypass loop?
I just purchased a Rinnai RL94EP and GTK15 external recirculation pump with dedicated return for my new construction home. Is there any videos of a similar setup, I can't seem to find an abundance of information on line. Thanks!!!!
Do you install a spring loaded check valve to the loop for air handler from hat feed of the tankless heater ?
Thank you so much for all the info, your channel rocks!! Is the piping the same for the RUR and RU199IN model with a recirculation pipe?
Yes except you have to install your own pump and wire it into the RU unit. Rinnai sells a pump and wording harness for it. Don’t forget the two spring check valves. I hope this helped! Mike
Mike, have a (RL-75i) REU unit. I’d like to add a recirculating function to it. Is adding a thermal bypass valve my best (or only option)? Much appreciate your response.
Hey Mike, did you install an expansion tank? Doesn't call for one on a dedicated recirc line?
Mike. Why does Rinnai have the recirc line return into the cold water inlet? Navien has a separate recirc inlet into the heater. In theory, that seems more efficient. How much pressure does the Rinnai recirc pump generate? More than the city water pressure I presume...
You are a UA-cam Hero! Thanks!!
It’s better into the cold water line it mixes with the cold wster before it enters the heater. All commercial installation like hotels and restaurants with tank type heaters or Rinnais Demand Duo all go into the cold water. I hope this was helpful Mike
As per the installation instructions, Rinnai recommended an expansion tank be used on the "closed system" area within the check valves because of thermal expansion of the lines. After a phone call to confirm, the engineers said that the lines could burst or the check valves may stop working if the pressure gets too high. Did you use an expansion tank behind that other wall? If not, why didn't you use an expansion tank? Do I really need and expansion tank? Thanks
Hello! I just installed the external version on this. I didnt see in the manual about the bleeding of the pump. (Oversight) I also did not install that check valve. My water was lukewarm last nite. No piping was changed other than changing out the old tankless. Lukewarm water usually means a line crossed up. However this is piped basically like the old unit. Can you advise what to check?
Do you purge your return after the ball valve before you connect the rest of it. Just wondering how you get the dedicated return purged of air. Just cant see how a return full of air will push through the spring check and out.
shrtct C it will purge through the piping the bleeders on the tankless and the relief valve will purge the short amount of piping after the check valves.
Hi Mike! Excellent video. Can you please explain why the vent on the condensate drain is needed and what happens if not installed? Thanks!
It improves the flow out of the pipe and prevents the pipe from getting air bound. I’ve seen a few times on condensing drain lines there was no flow out of the pipe until I cut it. I hope this helped.
Not just a vent but many probably missed the air gap at the bottom. It is not sealed to the drain. Diff manufacturers state different gaps. Mine is a 1-2" gap. Still dont know why.
Mike, I have the same unit, just installed last week. What would cause the hot water to go off after 10 minutes or shower use?
I can see any check valves and we do have a dedicated return line.
you figure it out?
can you put an aftermarket pump like grundfos with thermal switch on a RU 199IN?
thank you for the video! at 7'30", it is mentioned that a drain could be placed on the recirc line before the check valve. Is it OK to have the drain after the check valve, just before it connects back with the cold water feed?
You could put it after the check valve. Your bleeding it back to the tankless. You need to have the ball valve after the check. I hope this helped. Mike
@@TheBuddylab thank you! Just wanted to double check. We are having issues with getting consistent hot temperatures, and only get hot water while the pump is running. Once the pump turns off, the water outlets all get cold even when still running 100% hot water line at 4GPM. We think it is a bad spring check valve letting cold water back into the re-circ line. The re-circ line feels cold to the touch, too, even when the hot water-out line is very hot.
You do amazing videos. Question about the hot recirc line. How to (if possible) deal with the hot water recirc if using a manifold? I have a new RXP199IN being delivered this friday. Thank you in advance.
If it's a Viga style manifold like there mana-block the circulation will not work no matter what they tell you. The only fixture that will get hot water the hot line you attach the circulation line too.
Hi Mike,
I don’t have a dedicated return line but I’m curious if I can install 2 bypass valves in different locations because the water lines branch immediately from the water heater?
No you can only use one bypass valve per unit.
curious????? Just out of view from the camera.... On the left side, the return line comes out of the wall then a cpvc where you adt to pex. but the tee that goes straight up. you never say where that goes or what is does. Is it just caped off?
I have a single family home with ONE water main. My house has a tankless unit on each side. Half of the house has a dedicated recirculation line the other half does not. We decided to put in a RSC199in so that we could use the cross over valve for all the appliances on the side of the house with no dedicated line. Well it does not work very well I think due to the single water line and it's trying to mix with the cold water on the other side of the house. My solution would be to put in a check valve to isolate the loop using the cross over valve, your thoughts? I am also concerned that the check valve would be under the same sink that has the cross over valve which would bring cold water into that appliance quickly. I appreciate your channel and whatever thoughts you might have. Thanks
Hey Mike, Ive heard and read that you shouldn't use pex right up to the valves on a water heater since the temp failure rate is under the T&P valve setting. Can you comment on why you chose to do that . Thanks
Gennaro Lepre that’s not true, what I use is type A pex pipe and the Uponor system. It’s good to 180* and 200 psi. They make brass valves to be installed in line. All of our relief valve piping is either copper or CPVC. Of the 3,500 tanklesses we have installed we never had a problem,
@@TheBuddylab Thanks for the reply Mike. With that kind of experience, if anyone should know it would be you but if the T&P valve were to trip wouldn't that mean that at that point the pex would fail? Believe me I mean no disrespect in any way, Im just curious if that would happen?
Do you need the check valve on the cold side even if I don't gave a recirculation line? I am using the thermal valve under the farthest sink. Thanks in advance Mike
No check valve is required when there is no dedicated return line. I hope this helped.
Mike
How close does dedicated return line need to tie in?
I have exact unit in video. Do I need to do anything else to get recir to work. I have the control R with app. Its connected but not circulating
Joshua Peterson call me at +19042385349 after 6pm tonight and I will go over it with you
Mike
Have you ever had a pressure relief valve not seat properly again due to using it as a bleeder?
Can you split the HOT water side out to opposite sides of the house with 2 dedicated return lines coming back to the cold line in? Or do you have to have one continues loop of HOT water throughout the house? Thanks Mike
Hello Mike, I have a RU199IN, the Control-R and a dedicated recirc line installed in my house. I need to know what external recirc pump to purchase to make the recirc function work. Thanks in advance
Michael Wajer call me at +19042385349 and I will go over it with you
@@TheBuddylab , I would like to send a big shout out to Mike for his help! You are very accommodating and helpful with you knowledge. I am very appreciative!
Sorry to also add we’re required to also install a pan under em per code are you also clear on that as well. So sorry to seem picky I just wanna make sure you’re no giving people the wrong idea on it being proper
great looking install for sure. Not trying to be a video jerk, but your gas valve is on the wrong side of the drip leg. And.... why do they ask for a check valve on the cold side. Anti siphon? I have installed a few of these.
you definitely did good made the pex look good but man this would be just meh near me... like you didn’t use any copper ??!! I wouldn’t be a fan. Plus we can’t use flex gas line to hook these up and definitely not uncoated ones.. and for god sakes don’t be hitting your releif to purge your boilers. That might work when it’s brand new. You do that when it’s old and got some build up you’ll never get it to seat right again and it’ll be leaking like sieve and you be replacing it. Oh and shark bits are gross they are expensive and I’m sorry that shits for dire emergencies and home owners. Professionals shouldn’t be using them. Also where is the mixing valve? Pex looks good though give him that.
My question is why my thank less water heater blow the fuses is Reem outdoor
If it has done it more then once there is a short somewhere in the wiring
Why is the spring loaded check valve needed? Been watching videos. Your is the first I noticed it being used. Also would I need an expansion tank? I'll be using pex just like you did
a Dr the recirc line goes into the cold side. Without it, you’ll temper your cold water.
Approximatley how much will a dedicated recirculating line ad to cost of install?
I’m confused about the recirc line. I have a well so water will be going into my tank at about 53° and leaving at 120° let’s say. The water coming back to the tank will probably be less than 120° but way hotter that 53°. What I don’t get is Why does the tank need a recirc pump if you have a tee and both are going back into the tank at the same time? What if you hooked this up the same way as a non recirc rinnai?
The pump moves the water it can not come back by gravity
@@ThatTanklessGuy but doesnt the water pressure from the well or the street pressure move the water through the tank and to the fixtures? if it comes back to the tank the well or street pressure doesnt push it back into the tank? or without a recirc pump the pressure is equal on both sides of the Tee and the water never comes back?
You still have to evacuate the hot water pipe if the cooler water in order for the hot wster to take its place. A pump moved the process faster with wasting no water.
Mike, was trying message you without going through one of your vids. Here goes. I have a Rinnai RL94E. It has the built in recirc system and I had a complete re-pipe on the house to include a dedicated recirc line. All good there. My question is I have a guest house or Casita connected to the main house on the property that's tied into the same feed lines. Can I add a second or additional recirc pump or unit to have better on demand hot water to the guest house. As of now the bathroom to the guest house is about as far back as the master bath in the main house. We ran the dedicated recirc line to the main house master leaving the guest house with a recirc line. It is taking that extra 4 minutes of water running to get hot to the guest house. Any options of wiring an additional recirc unit...?
I have the exact same question!
What did you end up doing?
Can you show the proper way to flush/service a recirculating unit using the built in pump?
Matt Hubbard you can not use the built in pump to flush the heat exchanger, you need a flush kit and flush it through the valve kit. All tankless heaters are flushed exactly the same. Look back in my videos and I have one on flushing a tankless. Mike
@@TheBuddylab thanks for your help. Your videos are great
What is the purpose of the spring loaded check valves? Are they necessary? I will have a dedicated return line. I am installing a RUR199e exterior unit. Also, If I don't install the return line right away, will the system work okay for now?
David Allen there to prevent water from packing up into the piping. It will stop the recirculating water from backing up the cold water feed and the cold water from backing up the circulation line. Use only spring loaded checks not clapper
I hope this helped. Mike
@@TheBuddylab Thanks. Two more questions. If i don't hook up a return line right away, will this unit still work without any problem? Also, i think in you video you said I can run 2 return lines. I ask this because i have a master bath on one end of the house and another bath and kitchen on the other with my water heater in the middle. Can i just "T" it back into the cold at the heater?
David Allen yes you can run two return lines, as long as both are 3/4” the RUR199 can handle 400’ of 3:4” and 100’ of 1/2”
You can run the unit without return lines just leave the pump off and run it like a regular tankless. It would be better to call me before you install anything. Mike
@@TheBuddylab Thank you. I have everything installed except the check valves which I just bought and will install tomorrow. I will wait on the return line which i may not even need. My Master bath is only about 20' from the heater in one direction and my Kitchen about 20' in the other direction with another bath in between and a 3rd just on the other side of the kitchen. I'll call if I get stuck but your video is excellent. I have previously installed an older unit but it was an old smaller one that I had moved from one spot to another so I have some experience but it didn't have any check valves in it. I am an amateur plumber or i play one on the weekend. LOL.
Mike: I found this video too late to prevent my plumber from installing clapper valves instead of spring-loaded check valves. What problems can I expect from the clapper valves in my recirculation line? Is Rinnai aware of the need to use spring-loaded check valves?
Hey Bud, Why did you put Check valve on the cold water supply line?
To prevent the warmer water coming back from going into the cold water supply. Mike
What size was the return line , and how far did run ?
3:4” and just over 125 feet
Please please HELP me with an issue. Had a licensed plumber install the recirculating Rinnai LESS than a year ago. The flimsy red plastic water line the installer used burst at the check valves in two places causing flooding under my home for MONTHS.....he just came TODAY and charged me $350 more to put same cheap red plastic water line and replaced the check valves. I am not stupid....the hot water under pressure expanded that cheap plastic like a balloon and it blew out. I am furious! 1 yr warranty on “Quality parts and installation” . I am having my plumber from 50 miles away (used him for 20 yrs. before I moved into this 9 yr old custom home) come and check the whole shebang. What type of water line is best quality material to do this properly. The area under home is (normally) dry and does not freeze. The whole house dehumidifier (under the house) is working at max rate to dehumidify all the pools of water.....plumber did not sump water out either. I had my pest control guy look under entire house just a few hours before plumber showed up and he said there was a lot of water and evidence it had been pooling for a long time, plumber said two small pools of water. I believe the pest controller! Sick of rip offs and liars. I pay for quality and to be screwed over twice just makes my blood boil! I want this done correctly! Any advice would be greatly appreciated! The home is 2 1/2 story, 4000 sq ft. with wet feet in the crawl space, UGH.
Rusted Knights/ worn out maidens call me at +19042385349 and I will go over it with you.
Mike
Well, obviously hell froze over...the owner of the plumbing Company has stepped up, offered a refund and will oversee the correct installation for the RUR98e. This lil grandmother is gob smacked in shock! I learned so much from watching you do things properly and it gives me leverage to know what I see going on...and to know when I am being gouged! Maybe HE watched your video! Thank you so much and bless you! Good thing too, the control panel is flashing a 63 code since the repairman left! UGH. The red plastic works IF the fittings are done properly! Love the Rinniai unit, it is awesome!
Rusted Knights/ worn out maidens code 63 means the pump is not working, he probably did not bleed the system correctly ( see video on that) my concern is why the Pex tubing melted. The temperature would have to go over 180*. Call me if you like. Mike
Mike, I am getting ready to install the RUR 98i, do you install expansion tanks with them, some say yes and some say no, what say ye?
Bryan Kelley I would on that type of unit.
@@TheBuddylab Hi Mike, Really appreciate your videos! What type of expansion tank do you use on a RUR199iN install?
After installing dedicated recirculation on my RU160iN i get a water hammer ! Also do you know hiw the economy and comfort setting wirk with a dedicated recirc ! I did put in check valves ,, spring type !
Stephen, install a thermex expansion tank on the cold water after the check valve and set the unit on comfort setting. Mike
@@ThatTanklessGuy Thanks ! I put in some small water hammer arrestors but they don’t seem to help ! Will definitely try expansion ! Does comfort mode not increase costs significantly ?? Also error 63 after cleaned out the cold water filter !
Just cleaned filter again more black debris !
@@ThatTanklessGuy still getting code 63
@@ThatTanklessGuy Installed Expansion Tank. Eliminated the Water Hammer.
do you need an Expansion Tank piped in ?
There is very little thermal expansion in a tankless. If you want to install one it won’t hurt the system. I only install one when the house has lawn sprinkler off the main water system. Mike
@@TheBuddylab Thanks
I'm experiencing a 63 error code with swing valve installed on the recirculation line. Do you think these are related?
yes the get stuck and will cause a reduction in flow. they need to changed to spring checks. Mike
It looks like you're running 3/4 for the recirculation line. I've got 1/2 copper supply lines running hot water to the fixtures, would I just use 1/2 then for my recirculation line?
Clayton Lane no 3/4” is best, you do have a 3/4” main trunk line?
@@TheBuddylab Yes, but I have no intention of replacing the rest of my water lines so wouldn't 3/4 be overkill?
Clayton Lane call me at +19042385349 after 6pm and I will go over it with you. Mike
@@TheBuddylab Thanks for all your help!
This gas service is 1 1/2
Mucho importante hahaha u almost got it right...it Would b more like muy importante
crysland o lol thank you very much, it was the only phrase I could think of to get the point across
Very complicated
How do you descale interior pump on tankless water heater with designated recirculation line?
You need an expansion tank there bud
I was wondering this. Are expansion tanks required for tankless? Only if they have recirculation pump built in? Expansion tanks are for if there’s storage of hot water, correct?
@@Jabboy8 Expansion tank is need for recirc system. On a normal open system, without a recirc line, pressure is relieved when opening a hot water valve. Without the expansion tank the system is closed (no pressure relived when the water is heated) therefore, expansion of the hot water could cause a pipe break. The tank allows the built up pressure to be contained.
the info is great the video footage horrific .
WAIT one min Your unhappy with the black iron cupling on the gas but totally happy as hell to use sharkbites! I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me 😒
Next time do not apply teflon taper or pipe thread compound to gas flare connection.
See a shark bite and immediately stop watching. Plumb it in copper and use real fittings.