Love the video but I think there are a few issues. The water and oil example doesn't work here. If these was similar to water and oil, or even if they were not mixing because of different densities, they would separate again if you let them stand overnight. My guess would be that if you let the tanks stand overnight, they would actually end up mixing by themselves. The gas molecules (not nucleus) has motion depending on the temperature. If you think about it, if the gases didn't stay mixed in equilibrium, the law of partial pressure would not work. And lastly, with all due respect, you should ask this question to a chemist rather than instructors.
@@TheRedbaron11 ya true it will probably hermoginize well eventually. Water and oil was the only thing I could think of off the top of my head, and it's something anyone can imagine, but you're right, it's not exactly the same. I don't know any chemists, but the point is this is a scuba tank gas blending topic, and no one's knows the answers better than scuba pros.
@@DecoLounge-scuba That's the thing see, just because someone practices something, doesn't mean they understand the theory of it. So many stories in the dive industry (and elsewhere) where we have been doing stuff for years and then someone like Simon Mitchell comes and says the data doesn't support it. But I 100% agree with the video. Ridiculing people like that is idiotic. Especially when they don't give any argument as to why you shouldn't shake the tank. Just going by that, you are better off shaking the tank since it will not do any harm and probably build some muscles in the process.
That was exactly my first thought when watching the video. It probably wasn't the bumpy road mixing the gas, but rather the time it was sitting on the truck before the actual diving happened. What surprises me is the fact that there is still so much confusion about the topic. Wouldn't be too hard to test it with an analyzer by checking the gas at specific intervals and taking notes of how it changes. If you do that a bunch of times you will eventually find out how long it takes until its mixed well. As a comparison you could also do it with 2 tanks where you have one sitting around while you are shaking the other to see if it speeds things up or is just a waste of time. Practical science my friends. 😁 Sadly I am not a gas blender. Otherwise I would have tried it myself.
@@benjaminbeier4036 well the people who are telling me this stuff are basically experimenting all the time, as they not only guide deco dives, but teach TDI advanced blender, trimix and advanced trimix ect all day. Not just that, but in my mind my tech instructor here is very OCD (for lack of a better description), when it comes to very tiny derails and numbers and exact measurements etc. He's even talking to me about getting a molecular weight blending system because he can get so super precise on mixes, even though it's super uneconomical. I'm not surprised guys like this do extra. Anyway, no one knows everything, so the point of the video was its a bad look to be talking down to other divers for not knowing something or to be an arrogant "bro" which makes people want to stay away from the whole culture. Especially when that guy isn't even a tech diver, or taken any tech courses himself. According to another video of his.
I respectfully disagree. Gasses mix close to perfectly within a very short time, especially when they are flowing at a high speed through a small opening, like when you are filling a scuba tank. The inflow of gas causes a lot of turbulence in the tank, which promotes mixing. Once mixed, the gasses don't readily separate. There is, however, a small caviat, which could explain the story with the tanks being mixed after being transported in the back of the truck (and most importantly, being left overnight). The valve of the tank has a small tube attached, which ensures the gas is taken from the middle of the tank, so that you can never get water into the primary regulator if there happens to be a little water in the tank. This tube is fairly narrow, and the gas in that tube won't mix as quickly with the gas in the rest of the tank. If you analyse the gas right after blending, you will first get the gas that was already in the tube, which is the gas you put in last. If you leave the tank overnight, this gas will also have mixed with the other gasses, and it will be correct when analysed. If you want to analyse right after filling, you should briefly open the valve to let some gas out, to flush out the tube. I'd challange you to do this, analyse right after filling, flush the tube (a quick, fairly loud hiss for less than a second is enough) then roll the tank and analyse it again, leave it overnight and analyse it a final time. You will find that while the first reading may be off because of the gas left in the tube, the other 3 will be identical within measurement error.
As for your challenge, I did do it during my blender course. I saw it happen myself. And the tube thing that you're talking about... it doesn't really make sense because when analyzing a tank, it takes a lot longer than less than a second, so that tube would be completely clear by then by far.
@DecoLounge-scuba filled in water. Let it cool, then topped it off. Never worried about ignition as we were using heliair. No access to oil free air back in the day, so it was heliair, air and oxygen. The oxygen we dived with the medical oxygen cylinders and a bendeez adaptor. Later on I got an oxygen regulator that screwed straight into an Australian medical oxygen cylinder.
I have made comments to the guy you mention in the beginning, not agreeing with him. He didn't use to be so negative in his videos earlier on. I guess he is getting more views with his negative videos. I know he use to be a dive shop owner and instructor. But, not sure he is a tech diver. Your description of the chemistry is flawed. But, you got your point across. The important point was the molecular weight of the different gases. I'm a former recreational instructor not a tech diver and unfortunately never will be. As of two weeks ago I now have a pacemaker. The pacemaker limits me to a max depth of 80'. But, at least I can still do some diving. Diving in the Philippians is on my bucket list. However, I don't think it will ever happen.
@@jeffconley6366 ya I was sure I got some stuff wrong, and I really didn't need to get into tge details if I think about it now.. could of just left it at stories and reasons tech guys do it
Never had that problem all around here we use sticks to blend nitrox & trimix. Have seen someone do trimix by dooing helium 1st & topping off with a nitrox stick. But we must rember the OG divers had reasons for the things they did 🧮
First good video but there are a couple of things that could be improved. Like all things it is far more complicated than most people understand. Both oxygen and nitrogen exist in molecules O2 and N2. That means their relative weight is even higher. Also the weight comes almost entirely from the nucleus (there are also neutrons in the nucleus to consider). Helium is inert and exists on its own. Gasses can stratify (the scientific name for separate into layers). There are lots of things that can effect this like density and the type of gas. From what I understand this is more of a problem with Trimix than Nitrox. Quality of initial mix and pressure also have an effect. Once mixed gasses are much less likely to separate like water and oil. But getting a good initial mix is important.
Here's a bit of info to add to your comparisons of density of Helium with Oxygen and Nitrogen. First: each atom is normally balanced between the protons, nuetrons, and electrons, so the Oxygen atom has 24 total of those 3 subatomic particles compared to 6 for the the Helium. Second, and much more significant: Helium exists naturally as an atom, but both Oxygen AND Nitrogen exist naturally as molecules, each with 2 atoms (hence the designations O2 and N2). That means the O2 molecule has 48 total of electrons, protons, and neutrons compared to 6 for Helium. I am enjoying this series of videos, while I am already certified (cave trimix) it always helps to hear different ways of describing things!
Thanks for all that! I love this stuff. Obviously this is too much info for 1 video, but I might touch on it when I do a video about molecular weight blending.
As soon as you said toxic masculinity. I paused the video. Please don’t do that way. In the intellectual debate world known as a ad hominem agreement which is a logical fallacy. In normal terms name calling and therefore your position is correct when you have provided no evidence. I just watched and subscribed to your channel because you said you didn’t like people putting down others. I’ll keep my subscription to you for 3 weeks but if you can’t be true to yourself I’ll drop you like a hot potato because you be a hypocrite! Calling someone toxic masculine is just as making fun of someone as the people you are chastising but you are using the “new” terms which is ok! Piss off!
@@rontrosin7075 that is a term used to describe the "bros" who talk down to other people in arrogant ways or belittle them to feel better themselves... I said those things, right after showing you my "evidence", as you put it, of them doing exactly that. You can listen to their words yourself bud. I actually didn't like making that part of the video, i really wanted to do one about blending, but it was not the first time I've seen this, and I wanted other people who are watching my videos, to feel a sense of commilunity and be able to ask questions and keep learning, without the ridicule. I won't be doing it again, but someone need3d to say it. I use to be a travel writer, writing about dive destinations all over the world, and at one level of extreme or another I have run into many of these unwelcoming "diver cults", that judge you based on any number of things (like you using more air than them ect), and trying to make you feel lesser. Reminds me of the movie "the Beach". I'm not saying this dude is so extreme, and these other people can do whatever they want, I just want to let people know that not ever diver is this way. If you can't accept this, do I really want you as a subscriber? Let's see.
Just started watching your channel. Im a TDI advanced gas blender and do agree that agitation helps to mix the blend more quickly. That being said, i almost left the video as soon as you used the term "toxic masculinity ". The term implies the ridiculous notion that masculinity in and of itself is bad. Nothing could be further from the truth. Masculine men are protectors and aren't afraid to defend others from rude criticisms. Its a lack of masculinity that leads some men to talk down to others just because they disagree.
It is the exact opposite of what you describe. If he had just said 'masculinity' and implied that it was a bad, then he would have been implying that masculinity itself is bad. He had to use the adjective 'toxic' to separate it from regular masculinity.
This is also why some shops will let a fill sit for a few days before you use it?
Probably. Plus it takes a long time to fill tanks, so better to be ready
@@DecoLounge-scuba thank you
Well this is the best I can do for a calculator emoji on this new computer! Just keep the videos coming!!!!!!!!!!!!
Haha love it. It counts lol
Love the video but I think there are a few issues. The water and oil example doesn't work here. If these was similar to water and oil, or even if they were not mixing because of different densities, they would separate again if you let them stand overnight. My guess would be that if you let the tanks stand overnight, they would actually end up mixing by themselves. The gas molecules (not nucleus) has motion depending on the temperature.
If you think about it, if the gases didn't stay mixed in equilibrium, the law of partial pressure would not work.
And lastly, with all due respect, you should ask this question to a chemist rather than instructors.
@@TheRedbaron11 ya true it will probably hermoginize well eventually. Water and oil was the only thing I could think of off the top of my head, and it's something anyone can imagine, but you're right, it's not exactly the same. I don't know any chemists, but the point is this is a scuba tank gas blending topic, and no one's knows the answers better than scuba pros.
@@DecoLounge-scuba That's the thing see, just because someone practices something, doesn't mean they understand the theory of it. So many stories in the dive industry (and elsewhere) where we have been doing stuff for years and then someone like Simon Mitchell comes and says the data doesn't support it.
But I 100% agree with the video. Ridiculing people like that is idiotic. Especially when they don't give any argument as to why you shouldn't shake the tank. Just going by that, you are better off shaking the tank since it will not do any harm and probably build some muscles in the process.
That was exactly my first thought when watching the video. It probably wasn't the bumpy road mixing the gas, but rather the time it was sitting on the truck before the actual diving happened. What surprises me is the fact that there is still so much confusion about the topic. Wouldn't be too hard to test it with an analyzer by checking the gas at specific intervals and taking notes of how it changes. If you do that a bunch of times you will eventually find out how long it takes until its mixed well. As a comparison you could also do it with 2 tanks where you have one sitting around while you are shaking the other to see if it speeds things up or is just a waste of time. Practical science my friends. 😁
Sadly I am not a gas blender. Otherwise I would have tried it myself.
@@benjaminbeier4036 well the people who are telling me this stuff are basically experimenting all the time, as they not only guide deco dives, but teach TDI advanced blender, trimix and advanced trimix ect all day. Not just that, but in my mind my tech instructor here is very OCD (for lack of a better description), when it comes to very tiny derails and numbers and exact measurements etc. He's even talking to me about getting a molecular weight blending system because he can get so super precise on mixes, even though it's super uneconomical. I'm not surprised guys like this do extra. Anyway, no one knows everything, so the point of the video was its a bad look to be talking down to other divers for not knowing something or to be an arrogant "bro" which makes people want to stay away from the whole culture. Especially when that guy isn't even a tech diver, or taken any tech courses himself. According to another video of his.
I respectfully disagree. Gasses mix close to perfectly within a very short time, especially when they are flowing at a high speed through a small opening, like when you are filling a scuba tank. The inflow of gas causes a lot of turbulence in the tank, which promotes mixing. Once mixed, the gasses don't readily separate.
There is, however, a small caviat, which could explain the story with the tanks being mixed after being transported in the back of the truck (and most importantly, being left overnight). The valve of the tank has a small tube attached, which ensures the gas is taken from the middle of the tank, so that you can never get water into the primary regulator if there happens to be a little water in the tank.
This tube is fairly narrow, and the gas in that tube won't mix as quickly with the gas in the rest of the tank. If you analyse the gas right after blending, you will first get the gas that was already in the tube, which is the gas you put in last. If you leave the tank overnight, this gas will also have mixed with the other gasses, and it will be correct when analysed.
If you want to analyse right after filling, you should briefly open the valve to let some gas out, to flush out the tube.
I'd challange you to do this, analyse right after filling, flush the tube (a quick, fairly loud hiss for less than a second is enough) then roll the tank and analyse it again, leave it overnight and analyse it a final time. You will find that while the first reading may be off because of the gas left in the tube, the other 3 will be identical within measurement error.
As for your challenge, I did do it during my blender course. I saw it happen myself. And the tube thing that you're talking about... it doesn't really make sense because when analyzing a tank, it takes a lot longer than less than a second, so that tube would be completely clear by then by far.
I started mixing in the 80's and I had access to a tank tumbler.
It never made any difference.
But I never bothered with super slow filling either.
@@gasdive what did you do about the heat?
@DecoLounge-scuba filled in water. Let it cool, then topped it off. Never worried about ignition as we were using heliair. No access to oil free air back in the day, so it was heliair, air and oxygen. The oxygen we dived with the medical oxygen cylinders and a bendeez adaptor. Later on I got an oxygen regulator that screwed straight into an Australian medical oxygen cylinder.
@gasdive fascinating. Love this stuff
⛽️⛽️⛽️⛽️⛽️how do you top up trimix doubles? through one valve or close manifold and do separately?
@@JustinMaz one beast at a time
I have made comments to the guy you mention in the beginning, not agreeing with him. He didn't use to be so negative in his videos earlier on. I guess he is getting more views with his negative videos. I know he use to be a dive shop owner and instructor. But, not sure he is a tech diver.
Your description of the chemistry is flawed. But, you got your point across. The important point was the molecular weight of the different gases.
I'm a former recreational instructor not a tech diver and unfortunately never will be. As of two weeks ago I now have a pacemaker. The pacemaker limits me to a max depth of 80'. But, at least I can still do some diving.
Diving in the Philippians is on my bucket list. However, I don't think it will ever happen.
@@jeffconley6366 ya I was sure I got some stuff wrong, and I really didn't need to get into tge details if I think about it now.. could of just left it at stories and reasons tech guys do it
I haven’t gotten into trimix yet, so this is helpful! One question though… How does this work with doubles? You can’t exactly roll a banded set.
@@bigpodb haha 2 guys swinging it like a baby
Happy new year buddy 🧮
You too
Never had that problem all around here we use sticks to blend nitrox & trimix. Have seen someone do trimix by dooing helium 1st & topping off with a nitrox stick. But we must rember the OG divers had reasons for the things they did 🧮
The guys I talked to are really perfectionist I think. Want things to be exact.
🧮💻
Epic
First good video but there are a couple of things that could be improved. Like all things it is far more complicated than most people understand. Both oxygen and nitrogen exist in molecules O2 and N2. That means their relative weight is even higher. Also the weight comes almost entirely from the nucleus (there are also neutrons in the nucleus to consider). Helium is inert and exists on its own. Gasses can stratify (the scientific name for separate into layers). There are lots of things that can effect this like density and the type of gas. From what I understand this is more of a problem with Trimix than Nitrox. Quality of initial mix and pressure also have an effect.
Once mixed gasses are much less likely to separate like water and oil. But getting a good initial mix is important.
@@AndrewLarssen1978 ya, pretty complicated stuff
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Here's a bit of info to add to your comparisons of density of Helium with Oxygen and Nitrogen.
First: each atom is normally balanced between the protons, nuetrons, and electrons, so the Oxygen atom has 24 total of those 3 subatomic particles compared to 6 for the the Helium.
Second, and much more significant: Helium exists naturally as an atom, but both Oxygen AND Nitrogen exist naturally as molecules, each with 2 atoms (hence the designations O2 and N2). That means the O2 molecule has 48 total of electrons, protons, and neutrons compared to 6 for Helium.
I am enjoying this series of videos, while I am already certified (cave trimix) it always helps to hear different ways of describing things!
Thanks for all that! I love this stuff. Obviously this is too much info for 1 video, but I might touch on it when I do a video about molecular weight blending.
"A calculator emoji." Did I do it right?
Perfect.
As soon as you said toxic masculinity. I paused the video. Please don’t do that way. In the intellectual debate world known as a ad hominem agreement which is a logical fallacy. In normal terms name calling and therefore your position is correct when you have provided no evidence. I just watched and subscribed to your channel because you said you didn’t like people putting down others. I’ll keep my subscription to you for 3 weeks but if you can’t be true to yourself I’ll drop you like a hot potato because you be a hypocrite! Calling someone toxic masculine is just as making fun of someone as the people you are chastising but you are using the “new” terms which is ok! Piss off!
@@rontrosin7075 that is a term used to describe the "bros" who talk down to other people in arrogant ways or belittle them to feel better themselves... I said those things, right after showing you my "evidence", as you put it, of them doing exactly that. You can listen to their words yourself bud. I actually didn't like making that part of the video, i really wanted to do one about blending, but it was not the first time I've seen this, and I wanted other people who are watching my videos, to feel a sense of commilunity and be able to ask questions and keep learning, without the ridicule. I won't be doing it again, but someone need3d to say it. I use to be a travel writer, writing about dive destinations all over the world, and at one level of extreme or another I have run into many of these unwelcoming "diver cults", that judge you based on any number of things (like you using more air than them ect), and trying to make you feel lesser. Reminds me of the movie "the Beach". I'm not saying this dude is so extreme, and these other people can do whatever they want, I just want to let people know that not ever diver is this way. If you can't accept this, do I really want you as a subscriber? Let's see.
Just started watching your channel. Im a TDI advanced gas blender and do agree that agitation helps to mix the blend more quickly. That being said, i almost left the video as soon as you used the term "toxic masculinity ". The term implies the ridiculous notion that masculinity in and of itself is bad. Nothing could be further from the truth. Masculine men are protectors and aren't afraid to defend others from rude criticisms. Its a lack of masculinity that leads some men to talk down to others just because they disagree.
@@divemasterdavid595 masculinity is good and I agree. I'm talking about the bullies who fake it to talk down to people and brag
It is the exact opposite of what you describe. If he had just said 'masculinity' and implied that it was a bad, then he would have been implying that masculinity itself is bad. He had to use the adjective 'toxic' to separate it from regular masculinity.
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