Next, you should learn the correct way _to_ pick. Don't use your wrist or elbow, you've got knuckles to restrict effort even further. Why move your wrist or elbow if you're only striking a few strings? The flex in your finger joints have enough movement to cover most picking needs, saving effort for players to focus on other things.
@@BenEllerHey Ben , over the years years of developing my picking, it keeps changing and gets better and better ! At the current now I’m actually using the thumb technique it feels pretty darn good . I’ve always visualized Paul Gilbert’s technique in my minds eye how his hand looks when he’s picking .. it seems like its starting to look like his. Bottom line for me it just keeps changing.
Nice list I made years ago when I was investigating my trailing edge picking. Carlos Santana John Sykes George Benson Jesper Stromblad Ola Englund John Norum, a little bit. Shawn Lane Bruce Boulliet A lot of Gypsy Jazzers as well. I was primarily a thrash metal guy in the 80’s when I was in Hydra Vein, and it definitely helped with my down picking attack. I’m also cross handed as well.
You said in the first minute exactly what I came to say. It's what works best for you. As you progress as a player it becomes increasingly instinctual. Your body will find what works best. The geeeTar is a fickle mistress...you absolutely get out of it what you put into it. Nothing more. The important thing is to keep the guitar in your hands and fingers on the strings. Great video, UB.🤘
I play bass, just beginning to learn it. I'm 42 years and i have always been attracted to rhythms and bass especially. I Love your videos, you are the man❤
@@thomaskunz3726 Hello! Yes, i know that bass is like a addiction. I'm just starting to get the feeling and learn the fretboard. I will definitely build a bass some day! I have a Aria Rsb deluxe and a Ibanez RB 650. I like japanese basses, they build with pride and passion. Their work ethics is the most important factor to why Japan products is the shit :-) I would like to change the Rosewood fretboard of the Ibanez and have maple fretboard instead. I like the sound of maple fretboards. I build speakers, so I have some kind of feeling for it 😊 Have a great day!/ Gabriel
Hetfield actually talked about the pencil grip in a recent short video regarding why he holds the pick the way he does. He says using the thumb, index and middle finger like you would write with a pencil gives him more control, hence why he uses it. In any case this was a super interesting video that made me totally rethink picking. Thanks Uncle Ben!
This video may have changed my life. I've been playing bass for most of my life now, fingerstyle only (I don't even bother trying to use picks). One of the first reasons that got me into bass was how much I sucked playing with a pick when I first got into metal, while fingerstyle bass just felt natural from the start. After watching your video, I decided to hold the pick the same way I hold a pen -- instead of how almost everyone insisted was "correct" -- and what an instant improvement! I wonder how my music experience could have been if I thought about it when I was 17.
Yeah in the past two years or so as I've explored deeper into the picking rabbit hole with Troy Grady stuff and Mr. Oparin and others, I've come to describe the really fast picking as kind of scribbling, like with a pen... Totally get what you guys are talking about.
That's probably why I suck at it. I play guitar (and do most things) right handed, but I write left handed. Maybe there's some transfer of ability from learning to write, to being able to pick efficiently.
When I started as self taught, I naturally gravitated towards trailing edge. Then of course heard that leading edge was the "only way to play accurately", so sort of rewired my brain. At this point all my chord work is trailing, and for leads I'll switch back. For me, trailing makes strumming patterns 1000% easier, probably due to the thumb angle making the whole picking hand more relaxed.
Kiko Loureiro claims to play with the pick perfectly flat against the strings. Says he dislikes the slight scraping noise the pick makes when angled. I've heard teachers say this doesn't work but they are dead wrong. I incorporate the flat pick approach on certain runs just fine. Plus Kiko is a phenomenal player!
Me too, ive always wondered what advantages or disadvantages that has given me. I feel like my fretting hand(left) has always been way ahead of my picking hand.. buuut, if i try to play a left handed guitar i feel like ive never played a day of guitar in my life.. weird stuff
I’ve found myself using these picking techniques without realizing it because I have spent thousands of hours trying to sound like EVH, to the point where I tilt and pick certain riffs very specifically in order to sound more like the king!
Great video. Too many people out there with ideas about how things MUST be done, when it's the result that really matter. So many of our guitar hero's have "wrong" pick grip, thumb position, etc.
After 37 year of playing both trailing edge AND with the round corner of the pick (like George Lynch), a few years ago I started cramping up often and a lot. So about a year ago I switched to leading edge AND using the tip of the pick. Talk about a tough transition! At first the new technique felt really good on fast single note stuff, but I play a pretty open, percussive style a lot of the time, and damn! All my funkiness felt like I had NO coordination, smacking stings WAY too hard, no feel, good lord. A year plus in (and if I'm honest, I don't play much these days, but some), it's getting SO much better! It's finally starting to feel "normal" (although when I first pick up a pick I still naturally grab it trailing edge lol). The benefit to me has been MUCH, MUCH less tension in my thumb and hand, and although my speed has always been pretty stout, I'm sure my pick grip was holding me back and making me work harder than necessary for 37 YEARS lol. Cheers, brutha! Love your channel, you're a phenomenal teacher!
I started and used to play like that, but after watching Troy Grady's "Cracking the Code" I switched to the front/leading edge of the pick. In my case my playing improved a lot.
the pencil technique is mind blowing! I went almost instantly from hardtime Angel of death to casual Angel of death. And it seems to be gentler on my joints. As I'm 53, it's really great, I wanna Slayer till my last day !
That pencil analogy is genius I’m a trail edge picker and for years I’ve been trying to adjust to lead edge but it just feels unnatural to me and what you said about the thumb bend is bang on proper genius m8 👏 Thank you
Chris Wiseman guitarist for Currents & Shadow of Intent, has an amazing official guitar playthrough video of the song "Breathless & Barren Macrocosm". You might never see a faster, more brutal riff & guitar solo, played so effortlessly with the "trailing edge" picking technique . BUT, during the breakdown he switches to a traditional "leading edge" technique (that probably most of us use), to play very fast open E string notes with the bass drum. It really opened my eyes to being able to switch techniques to be able to play what you want.
Hope you come back and check these. I have a really back-bendy hitch-hikers thumb. Trying the trailing edge technique for the last few months really helped relax my picking hand and speed up because it felt like I wasn't trying to relax and tense my thumb simultaneously anymore. It feels more like drawing across the strings. Thank you!
Great video. I was a trailing edge picker for 25+ years. I started taking lessons from a teacher who told me that trailing edge might limit my potential. Although he did bring up many famous trailing edge players. So, I switched based on his inputs. I do think my tremolo picking is much faster with the leading edge.
Another brilliant, insightful video. I’m personally conflicted though, I went to being a hardcore trailing edge player to use as a “auto level up” for faster picking. Got major death stares from my guitar teacher, ever since (many years) I’ve drilled myself to hold the pick dead flat………… Smashing the heck out of the like button as this is a reference and then some. Massive thanks Ben!
This was very informative to me. I’ve found that the leading edge approach is more conducive to using the wrist for speed and accuracy. It’s kinda like a golf swing where you should use the larger muscles when you take the club back and through.
Spot on about the pen/pencil thing - I put a pen in hand as I normally would, and the pick fits into that same grip. 40+ years ago, my grandmother taught me to use my forearm to control the motion of my writing, though that takes conscious effort these days, since I don't write much anymore - that means the forearm has to be resting on the surface (table) to make my writing nice. Just like much of the motion in our picking hands is controlled by the forearm, not just the wrist. Thanks for posting this - it makes it a no brainer for me - I don't even have to think about whether or not I'm "doing it right" when I hold the pick. I used to miss the B and the high E when practicing a string skipping exercise, like Sweet Child - everything else was fine, but when I went to pick the B and/or E (more so the E) I would completely miss the string, or miss it enough that it sounded awful... That took some thinking, and it was about using the forearm - which was not what I was doing at first. I mean that I used to try to angle my wrist to hit those strings, but that was literally hit and miss - but moving the entire forearm that little bit over takes so very little energy, and allows me to keep my pick where it needs to be, without adjusting anything else. It is faster, and more accurate. I have never taken a lesson in person, though I've read a couple of very good books, and I've watched a ton of your videos, as well as a few others like Justin's - but I think I would gain a lot from taking lessons.. But I live in Canada, so it isn't likely that I'll ever meet uncle/nephew Ben.
Fascinating analysis, Ben. I was a trailing edge picker for the first 20 or so years of my playing life (and yes, I have hitchhiker thumbs) but retrained myself to play leading-edge when I discovered that I had no stamina for tremolo picking when performing standing up. I attribute this to spending a lot of time sitting whilst practicing in my formative years, such that when I went to stand up my picking wrist was over-extended. After watching your video, I am going to revisit the trailing grip to see what mileage I can get out of it; I can't currently get anywhere near your speed.
I think hypermobility plays a role in it. For some others like maybe Misha, it probably makes djenting a bit easier, or for Tosin, thumping is a similar position. Some people with hypermobility might find it comfortable and others completely the opposite. I don't see a lot of non-hypermobile people using the grip.
Thanks so much for this video, uncle Ben! I haven't paid much attention to my pick grip through the years, but now that I've started getting more into lead guitar I've wondered if I've been holding the pick completely wrong in the most alien way all this time
This video was insane. I was a self-taught trailing edge picker with a hitchhiker’s thumb for 12 years. During the pandemic I got some lessons and I’m now a leading edge picker 95% of the time. Every once in a while I go back to the trailing edge for chugging riffs
I was a natural trailing edge picker but i saw all my guitar heroes including you playing with a leading edge and i made the switch and my lead playing improved a lot and i feel that leading edge picking provides more control i guess. I have to switch back to the bent thumb while strumming and playing heavy palm muted rhythms especially. Great insight.
Wild. I'd naturally been a trailing-edge (with the index-middle support) since I picked up a guitar as a kid. I never gave it any thought until sweep-picking became the rage in ... mid 80's? I would suffer through hours of tabs but could never sweep as well as my peers until I realized my grip was totally different. And although I was a string-skipping madman, I wanted the whole bag of tricks. To THIS DAY I still force myself to try leading edge thinking "I'm doing it wrong" and vaguely thinking that "Steve Morse did it my way" so stop forcing something unnatural. You've cured my lifelong neurosis in one simple video and have my eternal gratitude.
This was extremely helpful. With a touch of arthritis in my index finger, my picking grip has changed over the years, which seemed troubling to me. However, now my picking style worries have been squashed. THANKS!
Thanks for touching on a topic that’s rarely discussed. I can’t do the trailing edge picking, My thumb won’t bend back enough to even try it. Thanks uncle Ben! You’re the best! 👍
First off, you're great. And darn funny. Immediately followed. Second. I have a severe hitch-hiker's thumb. Like further than 90 degrees, even more than the dude you showed. I've been trying to research if that was something that I should work on correcting for my picking hand (already working on the fretting hand.) I've always been a rhythm guitarist and singer and only recently decided to work on my soloing skills. I've always held it trailing like you showed, unknowingly. It is definitely awkward to hold it the other way. You are the first teacher on youtube I've seen mention it. Your stepdad would be proud. Also I hold a pencil the first way you showed. Shove that into your data hole if you like. Thanks for the lessons!👍🦄🎸🤘🕉 Reply
Funny enough this week I was thinking about how I can improve the way I hold my pick. I also came into the conclusion that we hold the pick the way we hold a pen. I hold the pen and my pick with 3 fingers . Maybe it is not the most conventional or efficient way but I just can’t change it.
When I first self-taught, eons ago, I definitely held it wrong - too much finger and thumb joint movement. Very like holding a pencil in fact. Relearning from 4 years ago I learned "more better" but still puzzled over the "best" way, so this is valuable. Looking at the wear on my picks I'm leading edge, but due to a torn shoulder muscle 3 years ago I started holding the guitar mostly in a classical position between the legs rather than on the right leg. If I switch now to the right leg position then I tend to more often use trailing edge as the guitar is at a different, flatter, angle. So many variables, so many body shapes. There is no one right way.
For like 35 years I was a trailing edge. All of a sudden about 10 years ago I looked around and saw most of my peers using leading edge style and I spent a huge amount of practice time reinventing all of my playing using leading edge. It never occurred to me that like left handedness it was simply me being me and probably wasn’t holding me back. Now that I’ve mastered both I think adding leading edge focus did ultimately make me a better player. Also interestingly I do have the way bent back hitchhiker thumb thing so yeah that seems to correlate!
I have hitchhiker thumb and since finding Cracking the Code, I’ve been fighting my natural “thumb spoiler”. Now, I shall employ both like yin-yang (not the Swedish one). Regarding pencil grip, I’m a southpaw that plays guitar right handed and my grips are very different. If I played leftie, it looks like I would definitely play leading edge. This was a fantastic exploration, Unca Ben!
Awesome!! I figured out the paper thing myself and made the decision to relearn lefty because of it for the accuracy and speed I got from that hand. I’m left-handed but was forced to play right when I was younger as a teacher thought it was better idea. Now I technically still suck both ways, but my rhythms a lot better.
The best players are able to manipulate how they are holding their pick depending on what they're wanting to accomplish with it at any given moment. And then there's techniques. Take Marty Frieman, for example. If I used my picking hand like that, I think I'd have cramps within minutes😆. Or watch Craig Goldy from Dio. He picks using only his fingers and zero wrist or elbow motion. He told me its from years of drawing with pencils in high school. His friends would ask him to draw pics of their favorite NBA players. He said he developed the motion by drawing the hair of so many Black NBA stars. Millions of little circles and ringlets over and over and over. Thought that was kind of a cool story and interesting comparison to your "scribbling" idea to share.
Neal Schon is also a trailing edge player. I used to be, it was natural for me. I switched in the late 80's to leading edge because it was how most people did it.
Hey Ben, as a guitar teacher , I obliged my former students to hold the pick like me a while ago, cause it works for me. Not as simple as that. I gave up this idea cause some of them was so embarassed. In the same time, we have to consider how to control the strings to hinder them from buzzing badly. I mean the hand rest, my one is the "fat part" of the thumb at normal playing, and like you, the edge of the hand, pinky side, to play sweep picking, especially for downstroke playing, otherwise fat part thumb mutes the strings. Could I give you idea for next video! 😏 Genious idea to compare pick holding with pen holding! You man of culture, Ben.😊
Perfectly timed video! I was just wondering about this the other day. Years of never thinking about holding the pick and then I wondered "what if I'm not doing this optimally"
14:28 never occurred to me but, I think you may be right. To me the 2 finger grip dont seem to work. Pick is always spinning on me and working out of my grip. Always used 3 fingers when writing too.
Ben, I’m about to wreck your pencil/pen angle grip paradigm: I’m a lefty writer but only learned to play guitar right handed. 90s were a wild time and friends let me borrow their right guitars to play before I could afford my own so I just gritted through learning on the opposite hand. Held me back a ton and I have historically been quite limited on speed picking as I am picking with my weak hand. I do love the pencil holding analogy for holding a pick. That’s a good one. But all things said, I am a trailing edge picker and I do have a significantly heavier hitchhiker thumb than yourself, so that might have something to do with it. But I totally agree with the tonality of the trailing edge and getting more attack and bite from it than leading edge. The leading edge feels totally foreign and I have a hard time getting good time and dynamics from it.
I have always used the trailing edge, honestly had no idea that most other people don’t do this. I also have always used the rounded corner of the pick rather than the tip. It’s pretty good for fast rhythm.
Ben, thanks for mentioning the the benefits to rhythm playing on the trailing edge. I've spent decades playing 'tallica riffs and other thrashy goodness and I can't imagine trying to play something like Battery or Dyers eve with the leading edge. Great vid. :)
WOW, Uncler Ben! For way too long this pick grip thing has baffled me. I was forced to be a righty when young! I am an ambi, actually! However having never really held a pencil in my right, you gave me pause. Thanks for being candid. I have the Jaco thumbs! Gonna grab Troy's camera rig. Thanks~
I mostly hold my pick with one hand unless things get crazy. Then I use both hands to hold it. And yeah now that I made it through the video, yeah writing & picking are correlatable no doubt about it. But I think the motions for knocking on a door & turning a doorknob are more relatable to picking than writing is especially where avoiding tension is a goal.
if you go dig up really early vids of Paul Gilbert you'll see he was a trailing edge player. Sometime before the intense rock vids he made the switch to leading edge.
I checked the pencil theory and with me it's completely different. I think it's due to the fact that I don't form a complete fist when picking but rather hold 3 fingers almost straight and use the pinky to support my hand. I heard that this is not a good thing entirely but then I saw that Petrucci does this as well, so I can't blame my lack of skill on that. :D
Great stuff uncle Ben! I struggled with alternate picking for a long time and developed a fast downstroke to compromise until I started learning some more advanced stuff that you couldn’t really get by with it in and I was able to adapt much faster doing the trailing edge picking. I’m getting better with the leading edge though. But really fast palm muted power chords and riffs and stuff I just naturally go to trailing edge. I’m a lefty too. Still trying to get better at leading edge though because of the attack you can get. Love your analogies for all this stuff btw you make it really easy to understand for the every day fool!
Thanks so much for this!! Part of what makes guitar a fun art is how you approach it. Paint it your way, and it will be yours alone. I admire a lot of players, but I'll never be them - and neither will you for 2 reasons - you don't have their hands or their heart. My guitar dealer once told me "You could plug into "So and so's" gear and it would still sound like YOU." Let that sink in.....
Unc has alot of the same techniques figured out that I've been experimenting with recently. As soon as I have an intense practice session, where I'm asking myself many of these same questions. The Unc will drop a video about it. As soon as I figure I must be the only one who thinks about this shit? Along comes Ben with yet another intricate little detailed video. Saying almost exactly the same thing. Just goes to show, that pick attack and even the most minute variation in how you use it. Can totally change the way a note sounds. Cool shit, that often gets overlooked.
Shawn Lane also used the trailing edge technique, and he is one of the fastest shredders ever, Ben plz make some video on Shawn Lane, Thx for everything, your the best
Interesting about the "scribble" technique. I find when I'm playing there's more motion in my thumb and forefinger than with the wrist. When scribbling it's the same. But if you're a wrist scribbler and picker you can probably keep the local motion under better control and so more accurate. My feeling is that I need to work more on wrist action (😏) to get better control and accuracy when picking faster.
Naturally a trail edge picker. Didn't even know there was a lead edge way until years later. There is a big difference when playing acoustic. Trail is quite. Lead really pops the strings . You can hear a big difference. Cheers
Another great vid! So ive been a trailing picker forever and because of that pain in my hand and thumb ( my thumb naturally bends way back) I would have problems playing live. When my band was in its prime I had to see a massage specialist. Didnt help. Now years later I am slowly changing over to lead edge and man ...wtf...its like relearning from the beginning. I dont play live anymore so no biggie but still, I wish I started the switch moons ago.
Hey Uncle Ben. Thanks so much for the video. Very informative. BTW, Im a Stepdad and i find all your comments and references to Stepdad, to be pretty accurate 😅. I find it funny and give me the feeling you're actually talking directly to me for some reason. You're the best 👌
Pencil and scribbling. Wow! I never thought about it that way. I'm an older dude that has only been playing 7yrs and figured I would never have the speed of the young guns or the more experienced. They better hang on to their hats now cuz here I come!
I’ve been playing guitar for very long time and holding my pic and what thickness to use is the biggest battle for me these days. I think I’m getting arthritis in my hand though so that’s also a part of it
i played with trailing edge for 20 years and now i start learning holding the pick the other way. at first it felt and sounded like i need to learn playing from scratch again, but slowly i see some benefits. as you said ther is less fatigue on my thumb. and i am already faster because the movement comes much more from my wrist and not from the fingers.
Wow am I a mixed up mess. I use leading edge, but I have a substantial hitchhiker's thumb bend. I'm lefthanded but play righthanded guitar. I've tought myself to write righthanded and I believe I hold the pencil based on how I hold the pick. So I've actually done it the other way around! lol. I like the scribble idea for training my right hand to have that muscle control and finding a relaxed position. Thanks for this video!
I first learned on an acoustic with my thumb, and a few years later I learned to pick but backwards. I do have the bendy thumb. I also couldn't stand up and play. One day I came home from work and just . . . could. So from then on I refused to ever sit and play. It took years to realize all I was doing different was leading edge. Now I'm allergic to sitting to practice. So I hadn't tried the old way in fifteen years. I sometimes have to sit to play, but I hadn't turned my thumb all sideways in all that time. Turns out it's like riding a bike. My picking is just as smooth either way when sitting, but even to this day it's still not as smooth standing even though I never sit to practice. Huh.
I have to swap between the 2, depending on the lick. And it all boils down to accuracy. If I can't play a lick accurately one way, I'll try the other way. But I lean heavily towards leading. I never realized there was something to it. It was always about if it felt awkward one way, I'd try the other way. Whichever way feels more comfortable and natural, is the way I stick with on that lick.
I’m mostly trailing edge. But was taught after 26 years to try leading edge. I do both now but the kicker is that I’m left handed. And play guitar right handed.
My guitar teacher has been bashing me about my leading edge picking. He maintained i should not angle my pick at all and have it perpendicular to the string. He said my angled picking would not hold up in high speeds. Yeah... i never agreed with him and have to this day not changed my angle XD Oh and btw the sound one produces using different angles is quite impressive. I love my raspy edgy sound with leading edge picking.
![How to Hold a Guitar Pick the RIGHT Way [Guitar Playing Masterclass PART 1]](/img/n.gif)
Thanks for learning the BEST way to hold the pick! Get all kinds of goodies over here on my Patreon page: www.patreon.com/posts/108435476?
Next, you should learn the correct way _to_ pick.
Don't use your wrist or elbow, you've got knuckles to restrict effort even further.
Why move your wrist or elbow if you're only striking a few strings?
The flex in your finger joints have enough movement to cover most picking needs, saving effort for players to focus on other things.
@beneller A Shredder and A Scholar. Love it.
Yeah and you see a ton of variance from player to player and they ALL work if mastered. If it works it works!
@@BenEllerHey Ben , over the years years of developing my picking, it keeps changing and gets better and better ! At the current now I’m actually using the thumb technique it feels pretty darn good . I’ve always visualized Paul Gilbert’s technique in my minds eye how his hand looks when he’s picking .. it seems like its starting to look like his. Bottom line for me it just keeps changing.
Uncle Ben much Respect bro 😎
But where is your Inner Rush?
Don't tell me how to hold a pick, you're not my stepdad!!! *slams bedroom door*
I PAY FOR THAT DOOR YOU BETTER TREAT IT WITH A LITTLE RESPECT! 😂
😂
Step-uncles deserve respect too
@@BenEller bahahahaha!!!
😂
Mad respect for the humour uncle Ben brings to these sombre proceedings.
It makes the whole endeavour much more palatable.
As my wife would say.
Nice list I made years ago when I was investigating my trailing edge picking.
Carlos Santana
John Sykes
George Benson
Jesper Stromblad
Ola Englund
John Norum, a little bit.
Shawn Lane
Bruce Boulliet
A lot of Gypsy Jazzers as well.
I was primarily a thrash metal guy in the 80’s when I was in Hydra Vein, and it definitely helped with my down picking attack. I’m also cross handed as well.
Yngwie is also a trailing edge picker and erick johnson
You said in the first minute exactly what I came to say. It's what works best for you. As you progress as a player it becomes increasingly instinctual. Your body will find what works best.
The geeeTar is a fickle mistress...you absolutely get out of it what you put into it. Nothing more.
The important thing is to keep the guitar in your hands and fingers on the strings. Great video, UB.🤘
I play bass, just beginning to learn it. I'm 42 years and i have always been attracted to rhythms and bass especially. I Love your videos, you are the man❤
Thanks dude! Bass is boss, I love bass as much as guitar.
That's how it started for me too, now i am building my first bass from scratch. That stuff is addictive :)
@@BenEller
You play bass in the ‘Yacht rock’ band huh?
That Josie video you did was great. MORE DAN MAN !!!
Love your work Uncle Ben ❤
, seeing you play the bass with Nili Brosh somewhere on UA-cam, dear Ben...
@@thomaskunz3726 Hello! Yes, i know that bass is like a addiction. I'm just starting to get the feeling and learn the fretboard. I will definitely build a bass some day! I have a Aria Rsb deluxe and a Ibanez RB 650. I like japanese basses, they build with pride and passion. Their work ethics is the most important factor to why Japan products is the shit :-) I would like to change the Rosewood fretboard of the Ibanez and have maple fretboard instead. I like the sound of maple fretboards. I build speakers, so I have some kind of feeling for it 😊 Have a great day!/ Gabriel
Ben, Thanks so much. This is exactly what I have been looking for. You are a great teacher.
Glad it was helpful! Cheers!
@@MetalAddict38 he sure is the best 💯
Hetfield actually talked about the pencil grip in a recent short video regarding why he holds the pick the way he does. He says using the thumb, index and middle finger like you would write with a pencil gives him more control, hence why he uses it. In any case this was a super interesting video that made me totally rethink picking. Thanks Uncle Ben!
This video may have changed my life. I've been playing bass for most of my life now, fingerstyle only (I don't even bother trying to use picks). One of the first reasons that got me into bass was how much I sucked playing with a pick when I first got into metal, while fingerstyle bass just felt natural from the start.
After watching your video, I decided to hold the pick the same way I hold a pen -- instead of how almost everyone insisted was "correct" -- and what an instant improvement! I wonder how my music experience could have been if I thought about it when I was 17.
Ah man that rules! So stoked to help. Cheers!
Pick with bass? I'm calling the police.
I have never…ever, ever in 36 years of playing guitar ever thought speed pick as scribbling. That blew my fucking mind.
I’m so excited to hear that, Henry!
Yeah in the past two years or so as I've explored deeper into the picking rabbit hole with Troy Grady stuff and Mr. Oparin and others, I've come to describe the really fast picking as kind of scribbling, like with a pen...
Totally get what you guys are talking about.
That's probably why I suck at it. I play guitar (and do most things) right handed, but I write left handed. Maybe there's some transfer of ability from learning to write, to being able to pick efficiently.
When I started as self taught, I naturally gravitated towards trailing edge. Then of course heard that leading edge was the "only way to play accurately", so sort of rewired my brain. At this point all my chord work is trailing, and for leads I'll switch back. For me, trailing makes strumming patterns 1000% easier, probably due to the thumb angle making the whole picking hand more relaxed.
Kiko Loureiro claims to play with the pick perfectly flat against the strings. Says he dislikes the slight scraping noise the pick makes when angled. I've heard teachers say this doesn't work but they are dead wrong. I incorporate the flat pick approach on certain runs just fine. Plus Kiko is a phenomenal player!
Michael Schenker and George Lynch pick parallel to the string often as well. I think that gives the purest tone.
Man. Your videos are the best guitar videos around youtube. Thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge! 🙌
Glad you like them!
With regard to your theory: I'm left handed but learned to play guitar right handed due to access, so I'm a fun outlier to your theory!
Me too, ive always wondered what advantages or disadvantages that has given me. I feel like my fretting hand(left) has always been way ahead of my picking hand.. buuut, if i try to play a left handed guitar i feel like ive never played a day of guitar in my life.. weird stuff
@@donny5474 yup; you nailed it.
Uncle Ben, thanks so much for this video. I’ve had this question about my picking for a few years now. Great insight as usual
Glad it was helpful!
Scribbling….what an eye opening thought that truly changed everything. Thank you so much Uncle Ben!
I was literally thinking of something like this and I see the video pop up in my notifications ❤
I’ve found myself using these picking techniques without realizing it because I have spent thousands of hours trying to sound like EVH, to the point where I tilt and pick certain riffs very specifically in order to sound more like the king!
Reminds of Chuck schuldiner. He used to pick Trailing edge as well. he achieved a level of riffage most of us can barely reach.
Great video. Too many people out there with ideas about how things MUST be done, when it's the result that really matter. So many of our guitar hero's have "wrong" pick grip, thumb position, etc.
Absolutely right dude as far as the pen/pick correlation. Less clicking, more scribbling!
After 37 year of playing both trailing edge AND with the round corner of the pick (like George Lynch), a few years ago I started cramping up often and a lot. So about a year ago I switched to leading edge AND using the tip of the pick. Talk about a tough transition! At first the new technique felt really good on fast single note stuff, but I play a pretty open, percussive style a lot of the time, and damn! All my funkiness felt like I had NO coordination, smacking stings WAY too hard, no feel, good lord.
A year plus in (and if I'm honest, I don't play much these days, but some), it's getting SO much better! It's finally starting to feel "normal" (although when I first pick up a pick I still naturally grab it trailing edge lol). The benefit to me has been MUCH, MUCH less tension in my thumb and hand, and although my speed has always been pretty stout, I'm sure my pick grip was holding me back and making me work harder than necessary for 37 YEARS lol.
Cheers, brutha! Love your channel, you're a phenomenal teacher!
Thanks for making me practice for the first time in months. Discovering this is a game changer already.
Great to hear! Get into it, Bruce!
I started and used to play like that, but after watching Troy Grady's "Cracking the Code" I switched to the front/leading edge of the pick. In my case my playing improved a lot.
Paul Gilbert started as a trailing edge picker. He changed because he said it felt like he was having too much tension in his hand.
the pencil technique is mind blowing! I went almost instantly from hardtime Angel of death to casual Angel of death. And it seems to be gentler on my joints. As I'm 53, it's really great, I wanna Slayer till my last day !
That pencil analogy is genius I’m a trail edge picker and for years I’ve been trying to adjust to lead edge but it just feels unnatural to me and what you said about the thumb bend is bang on proper genius m8 👏 Thank you
Chris Wiseman guitarist for Currents & Shadow of Intent, has an amazing official guitar playthrough video of the song "Breathless & Barren Macrocosm". You might never see a faster, more brutal riff & guitar solo, played so effortlessly with the "trailing edge" picking technique . BUT, during the breakdown he switches to a traditional "leading edge" technique (that probably most of us use), to play very fast open E string notes with the bass drum. It really opened my eyes to being able to switch techniques to be able to play what you want.
I think Chris actually changed his picking style. He did some Currents playthroughs where he's using the leading edge.
Hope you come back and check these. I have a really back-bendy hitch-hikers thumb. Trying the trailing edge technique for the last few months really helped relax my picking hand and speed up because it felt like I wasn't trying to relax and tense my thumb simultaneously anymore. It feels more like drawing across the strings.
Thank you!
That rules! I’m glad to help!
Great video. I was a trailing edge picker for 25+ years. I started taking lessons from a teacher who told me that trailing edge might limit my potential. Although he did bring up many famous trailing edge players. So, I switched based on his inputs. I do think my tremolo picking is much faster with the leading edge.
Another brilliant, insightful video. I’m personally conflicted though, I went to being a hardcore trailing edge player to use as a “auto level up” for faster picking. Got major death stares from my guitar teacher, ever since (many years) I’ve drilled myself to hold the pick dead flat………… Smashing the heck out of the like button as this is a reference and then some.
Massive thanks Ben!
This was very informative to me. I’ve found that the leading edge approach is more conducive to using the wrist for speed and accuracy. It’s kinda like a golf swing where you should use the larger muscles when you take the club back and through.
Spot on about the pen/pencil thing - I put a pen in hand as I normally would, and the pick fits into that same grip. 40+ years ago, my grandmother taught me to use my forearm to control the motion of my writing, though that takes conscious effort these days, since I don't write much anymore - that means the forearm has to be resting on the surface (table) to make my writing nice. Just like much of the motion in our picking hands is controlled by the forearm, not just the wrist. Thanks for posting this - it makes it a no brainer for me - I don't even have to think about whether or not I'm "doing it right" when I hold the pick. I used to miss the B and the high E when practicing a string skipping exercise, like Sweet Child - everything else was fine, but when I went to pick the B and/or E (more so the E) I would completely miss the string, or miss it enough that it sounded awful... That took some thinking, and it was about using the forearm - which was not what I was doing at first. I mean that I used to try to angle my wrist to hit those strings, but that was literally hit and miss - but moving the entire forearm that little bit over takes so very little energy, and allows me to keep my pick where it needs to be, without adjusting anything else. It is faster, and more accurate. I have never taken a lesson in person, though I've read a couple of very good books, and I've watched a ton of your videos, as well as a few others like Justin's - but I think I would gain a lot from taking lessons.. But I live in Canada, so it isn't likely that I'll ever meet uncle/nephew Ben.
I was laughing at the butt-play joke so much that I almost missed the meow at 0:44
Thank you for great insight technique of picking. Also enjoyed the wet/dry/wet demo pedal set up.
Fascinating analysis, Ben. I was a trailing edge picker for the first 20 or so years of my playing life (and yes, I have hitchhiker thumbs) but retrained myself to play leading-edge when I discovered that I had no stamina for tremolo picking when performing standing up. I attribute this to spending a lot of time sitting whilst practicing in my formative years, such that when I went to stand up my picking wrist was over-extended. After watching your video, I am going to revisit the trailing grip to see what mileage I can get out of it; I can't currently get anywhere near your speed.
I think hypermobility plays a role in it. For some others like maybe Misha, it probably makes djenting a bit easier, or for Tosin, thumping is a similar position. Some people with hypermobility might find it comfortable and others completely the opposite. I don't see a lot of non-hypermobile people using the grip.
Thanks so much for this video, uncle Ben! I haven't paid much attention to my pick grip through the years, but now that I've started getting more into lead guitar I've wondered if I've been holding the pick completely wrong in the most alien way all this time
That pencil theory thing just blew my mind and has changed my playing no end! Thank you buddy 🎉
Glad to hear it!
This video was insane. I was a self-taught trailing edge picker with a hitchhiker’s thumb for 12 years. During the pandemic I got some lessons and I’m now a leading edge picker 95% of the time. Every once in a while I go back to the trailing edge for chugging riffs
I was a natural trailing edge picker but i saw all my guitar heroes including you playing with a leading edge and i made the switch and my lead playing improved a lot and i feel that leading edge picking provides more control i guess. I have to switch back to the bent thumb while strumming and playing heavy palm muted rhythms especially. Great insight.
Glad to hear someone say pick how ever you damn well want to. I was stressing I was creating bad habits always trying to do it differently.
If it works, get into it!
Wild. I'd naturally been a trailing-edge (with the index-middle support) since I picked up a guitar as a kid. I never gave it any thought until sweep-picking became the rage in ... mid 80's? I would suffer through hours of tabs but could never sweep as well as my peers until I realized my grip was totally different. And although I was a string-skipping madman, I wanted the whole bag of tricks.
To THIS DAY I still force myself to try leading edge thinking "I'm doing it wrong" and vaguely thinking that "Steve Morse did it my way" so stop forcing something unnatural. You've cured my lifelong neurosis in one simple video and have my eternal gratitude.
I’m so stoked to hear that. Keep rippin!!!
I like the way you wexplain to guitarists that what natural matters and not what you idol guitarist do
This provided me with more revelations than therapy.....AND it healed my relationship with my real dad!
Ben . . . you must be the greatest teacher - EVER!
Shucks, thanks a lot
This was extremely helpful. With a touch of arthritis in my index finger, my picking grip has changed over the years, which seemed troubling to me. However, now my picking style worries have been squashed. THANKS!
Thanks for touching on a topic that’s rarely discussed. I can’t do the trailing edge picking, My thumb won’t bend back enough to even try it. Thanks uncle Ben! You’re the best! 👍
Thanks a lot dude!
Ben, I've been watching since I was a kid, and I'm 22 now. Doesn't look like you aged a day 😂 thanks for teaching me how to play the guitar.
Haha thanks a lot dude!
First off, you're great. And darn funny. Immediately followed. Second. I have a severe hitch-hiker's thumb. Like further than 90 degrees, even more than the dude you showed. I've been trying to research if that was something that I should work on correcting for my picking hand (already working on the fretting hand.) I've always been a rhythm guitarist and singer and only recently decided to work on my soloing skills. I've always held it trailing like you showed, unknowingly. It is definitely awkward to hold it the other way. You are the first teacher on youtube I've seen mention it. Your stepdad would be proud. Also I hold a pencil the first way you showed. Shove that into your data hole if you like. Thanks for the lessons!👍🦄🎸🤘🕉
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Funny enough this week I was thinking about how I can improve the way I hold my pick. I also came into the conclusion that we hold the pick the way we hold a pen. I hold the pen and my pick with 3 fingers . Maybe it is not the most conventional or efficient way but I just can’t change it.
When I first self-taught, eons ago, I definitely held it wrong - too much finger and thumb joint movement. Very like holding a pencil in fact. Relearning from 4 years ago I learned "more better" but still puzzled over the "best" way, so this is valuable. Looking at the wear on my picks I'm leading edge, but due to a torn shoulder muscle 3 years ago I started holding the guitar mostly in a classical position between the legs rather than on the right leg. If I switch now to the right leg position then I tend to more often use trailing edge as the guitar is at a different, flatter, angle. So many variables, so many body shapes. There is no one right way.
For like 35 years I was a trailing edge. All of a sudden about 10 years ago I looked around and saw most of my peers using leading edge style and I spent a huge amount of practice time reinventing all of my playing using leading edge. It never occurred to me that like left handedness it was simply me being me and probably wasn’t holding me back. Now that I’ve mastered both I think adding leading edge focus did ultimately make me a better player. Also interestingly I do have the way bent back hitchhiker thumb thing so yeah that seems to correlate!
Loved that snuck in Loverboy lick!
I learned from you and troy when I started and so glad I did 💯2 years later and I can play as fast as I like💯
Alternate picking takes time but worth the effort 💯
Dean from Archspire is trailing edge too, and he is an absolute nutty guitarist so it definitely works
Thank you Uncle Ben! You are THE honest to goodness man! Happy to be your new patreon subscriber. :)
I have hitchhiker thumb and since finding Cracking the Code, I’ve been fighting my natural “thumb spoiler”. Now, I shall employ both like yin-yang (not the Swedish one). Regarding pencil grip, I’m a southpaw that plays guitar right handed and my grips are very different. If I played leftie, it looks like I would definitely play leading edge. This was a fantastic exploration, Unca Ben!
Awesome!! I figured out the paper thing myself and made the decision to relearn lefty because of it for the accuracy and speed I got from that hand. I’m left-handed but was forced to play right when I was younger as a teacher thought it was better idea. Now I technically still suck both ways, but my rhythms a lot better.
The best players are able to manipulate how they are holding their pick depending on what they're wanting to accomplish with it at any given moment. And then there's techniques. Take Marty Frieman, for example. If I used my picking hand like that, I think I'd have cramps within minutes😆. Or watch Craig Goldy from Dio. He picks using only his fingers and zero wrist or elbow motion. He told me its from years of drawing with pencils in high school. His friends would ask him to draw pics of their favorite NBA players. He said he developed the motion by drawing the hair of so many Black NBA stars. Millions of little circles and ringlets over and over and over. Thought that was kind of a cool story and interesting comparison to your "scribbling" idea to share.
Neal Schon is also a trailing edge player. I used to be, it was natural for me. I switched in the late 80's to leading edge because it was how most people did it.
Hey Ben, as a guitar teacher , I obliged my former students to hold the pick like me a while ago, cause it works for me. Not as simple as that. I gave up this idea cause some of them was so embarassed.
In the same time, we have to consider how to control the strings to hinder them from buzzing badly.
I mean the hand rest, my one is the "fat part" of the thumb at normal playing, and like you, the edge of the hand, pinky side, to play sweep picking, especially for downstroke playing, otherwise fat part thumb mutes the strings. Could I give you idea for next video! 😏
Genious idea to compare pick holding with pen holding!
You man of culture, Ben.😊
Great advice and info as always, Thanks Uncle Ben! 🤘😆
Perfectly timed video!
I was just wondering about this the other day. Years of never thinking about holding the pick and then I wondered "what if I'm not doing this optimally"
If it feels smooth, stick with it! Lots of ways to do it “right”
14:28 never occurred to me but, I think you may be right. To me the 2 finger grip dont seem to work. Pick is always spinning on me and working out of my grip. Always used 3 fingers when writing too.
Booyah!!! More proof!
@@BenEllerJames Hatfield said in an interview that that's how he hold his pen too
Ben, I’m about to wreck your pencil/pen angle grip paradigm: I’m a lefty writer but only learned to play guitar right handed. 90s were a wild time and friends let me borrow their right guitars to play before I could afford my own so I just gritted through learning on the opposite hand. Held me back a ton and I have historically been quite limited on speed picking as I am picking with my weak hand. I do love the pencil holding analogy for holding a pick. That’s a good one.
But all things said, I am a trailing edge picker and I do have a significantly heavier hitchhiker thumb than yourself, so that might have something to do with it. But I totally agree with the tonality of the trailing edge and getting more attack and bite from it than leading edge. The leading edge feels totally foreign and I have a hard time getting good time and dynamics from it.
I have always used the trailing edge, honestly had no idea that most other people don’t do this. I also have always used the rounded corner of the pick rather than the tip. It’s pretty good for fast rhythm.
The scribbling thing weirdly doesn’t apply to me because I’m left handed but play right handed so have never held a pencil in my right hand. Weird.
Ben, thanks for mentioning the the benefits to rhythm playing on the trailing edge. I've spent decades playing 'tallica riffs and other thrashy goodness and I can't imagine trying to play something like Battery or Dyers eve with the leading edge. Great vid. :)
Very, very interesting about the pencil! Not sure how to transfer this for me as I'm a right - handed guitar player, but a lefty in writing... 😅
Thank you, Handsome God-King Ben. We need more of this energy across the board for all-things music. Destroy the rulebook and do whatever you want.
Hell yes dude, let’s GET INTO IT!
WOW, Uncler Ben! For way too long this pick grip thing has baffled me. I was forced to be a righty when young! I am an ambi, actually! However having never really held a pencil in my right, you gave me pause. Thanks for being candid. I have the Jaco thumbs! Gonna grab Troy's camera rig. Thanks~
I mostly hold my pick with one hand unless things get crazy. Then I use both hands to hold it.
And yeah now that I made it through the video, yeah writing & picking are correlatable no doubt about it. But I think the motions for knocking on a door & turning a doorknob are more relatable to picking than writing is especially where avoiding tension is a goal.
Welll…turns out, I write left and play right… gonna have figure out my scribble!
Fascinating stuff Maestro. Grazi!
Me too.There's been quite a few like this including Gary Moore.
Me, too. Cuz my older sister spent alot of time teaching me to write and she's left-handed ... could be why I suck at picking ... maybe?
Also Knopfler and Andy Summers…
if you go dig up really early vids of Paul Gilbert you'll see he was a trailing edge player. Sometime before the intense rock vids he made the switch to leading edge.
@@mablesfatalfable6021 what was up with his thumb?
I checked the pencil theory and with me it's completely different. I think it's due to the fact that I don't form a complete fist when picking but rather hold 3 fingers almost straight and use the pinky to support my hand. I heard that this is not a good thing entirely but then I saw that Petrucci does this as well, so I can't blame my lack of skill on that. :D
Man, that was great. Now if I could learn how to hold the paper as fast as I can scribble, I might be able to really do something.
Great stuff uncle Ben! I struggled with alternate picking for a long time and developed a fast downstroke to compromise until I started learning some more advanced stuff that you couldn’t really get by with it in and I was able to adapt much faster doing the trailing edge picking. I’m getting better with the leading edge though. But really fast palm muted power chords and riffs and stuff I just naturally go to trailing edge. I’m a lefty too. Still trying to get better at leading edge though because of the attack you can get. Love your analogies for all this stuff btw you make it really easy to understand for the every day fool!
I posted this on all my beginner Facebook pages I follow it’s like 10 of them 💯
I appreciate that
@@BenEller you are the best on youtube by a fucking mile know that and iv seen enough of them for that to be absolutely true
Another good educational video, cheers Ben 👍
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks so much for this!! Part of what makes guitar a fun art is how you approach it. Paint it your way, and it will be yours alone. I admire a lot of players, but I'll never be them - and neither will you for 2 reasons - you don't have their hands or their heart. My guitar dealer once told me "You could plug into "So and so's" gear and it would still sound like YOU." Let that sink in.....
Unc has alot of the same techniques figured out that I've been experimenting with recently. As soon as I have an intense practice session, where I'm asking myself many of these same questions. The Unc will drop a video about it. As soon as I figure I must be the only one who thinks about this shit? Along comes Ben with yet another intricate little detailed video. Saying almost exactly the same thing. Just goes to show, that pick attack and even the most minute variation in how you use it. Can totally change the way a note sounds. Cool shit, that often gets overlooked.
Spoilers: I’ve got your house wiretapped
Shawn Lane also used the trailing edge technique, and he is one of the fastest shredders ever, Ben plz make some video on Shawn Lane, Thx for everything, your the best
Interesting about the "scribble" technique. I find when I'm playing there's more motion in my thumb and forefinger than with the wrist. When scribbling it's the same. But if you're a wrist scribbler and picker you can probably keep the local motion under better control and so more accurate. My feeling is that I need to work more on wrist action (😏) to get better control and accuracy when picking faster.
Great video, Ben. And now I know why my handwriting also sucks.
Fantastic info. Highly informative. Thanks Ben!
Naturally a trail edge picker. Didn't even know there was a lead edge way until years later. There is a big difference when playing acoustic. Trail is quite. Lead really pops the strings . You can hear a big difference. Cheers
Another great vid! So ive been a trailing picker forever and because of that pain in my hand and thumb ( my thumb naturally bends way back) I would have problems playing live. When my band was in its prime I had to see a massage specialist. Didnt help. Now years later I am slowly changing over to lead edge and man ...wtf...its like relearning from the beginning. I dont play live anymore so no biggie but still, I wish I started the switch moons ago.
Hey Uncle Ben. Thanks so much for the video. Very informative. BTW, Im a Stepdad and i find all your comments and references to Stepdad, to be pretty accurate 😅. I find it funny and give me the feeling you're actually talking directly to me for some reason. You're the best 👌
Hahaha thanks a lot Mark!
A brief overview of 'Badboys' please
First 50 seconds: A GREAT American spittin truth y’all!
USA USA USA USA hahaha
Pencil and scribbling. Wow! I never thought about it that way. I'm an older dude that has only been playing 7yrs and figured I would never have the speed of the young guns or the more experienced. They better hang on to their hats now cuz here I come!
Hell yeah Timothy, get into it!!
I LOVE that shirt, I need it
@@tonym7051 me too💯
I’ve been playing guitar for very long time and holding my pic and what thickness to use is the biggest battle for me these days.
I think I’m getting arthritis in my hand though so that’s also a part of it
Good luck, dude!
i played with trailing edge for 20 years and now i start learning holding the pick the other way. at first it felt and sounded like i need to learn playing from scratch again, but slowly i see some benefits. as you said ther is less fatigue on my thumb. and i am already faster because the movement comes much more from my wrist and not from the fingers.
Wow am I a mixed up mess. I use leading edge, but I have a substantial hitchhiker's thumb bend. I'm lefthanded but play righthanded guitar. I've tought myself to write righthanded and I believe I hold the pencil based on how I hold the pick. So I've actually done it the other way around! lol. I like the scribble idea for training my right hand to have that muscle control and finding a relaxed position. Thanks for this video!
I first learned on an acoustic with my thumb, and a few years later I learned to pick but backwards. I do have the bendy thumb. I also couldn't stand up and play.
One day I came home from work and just . . . could. So from then on I refused to ever sit and play. It took years to realize all I was doing different was leading edge. Now I'm allergic to sitting to practice. So I hadn't tried the old way in fifteen years. I sometimes have to sit to play, but I hadn't turned my thumb all sideways in all that time. Turns out it's like riding a bike. My picking is just as smooth either way when sitting, but even to this day it's still not as smooth standing even though I never sit to practice. Huh.
I have to swap between the 2, depending on the lick. And it all boils down to accuracy. If I can't play a lick accurately one way, I'll try the other way. But I lean heavily towards leading. I never realized there was something to it. It was always about if it felt awkward one way, I'd try the other way. Whichever way feels more comfortable and natural, is the way I stick with on that lick.
I’m mostly trailing edge. But was taught after 26 years to try leading edge. I do both now but the kicker is that I’m left handed. And play guitar right handed.
My guitar teacher has been bashing me about my leading edge picking. He maintained i should not angle my pick at all and have it perpendicular to the string. He said my angled picking would not hold up in high speeds. Yeah... i never agreed with him and have to this day not changed my angle XD Oh and btw the sound one produces using different angles is quite impressive. I love my raspy edgy sound with leading edge picking.
I have never given any thought to how I hold the pick. I’m curious now, less clicking more picking time.