What Happened to the Old Dutch Flag (Prinsenvlag)?
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- Опубліковано 3 тра 2024
- Orange is a MAJOR colour in the Netherlands, but it doesn't appear on the flag - why not? What happened to the reputation of the Dutch Prinsenvlag?
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As a Dutchman, I'd love to go back to orange, white & blue.
I like the old Dutch flag, though
Same
Me too, it is MUCH better than the current flag. The old flag stands out because orange is uncommon on flags, while the current flag looks too similar to lots of other flags.
@@MatthewTheWandererHonestly you should blame the other countries for the use of these colours 😅
@@hekkie6082 suffering from success😢
Which 'Old Dutch flag'? As explained in the video of Hilbert, there are two...
In fact, there is one, the other only shows loyalty to a certain family, and like that family it was, and is, rather controversial.
"Somehow Napoleon returned."
As a lover of history and saddened by Disney Star Wars, this comment is WAY under liked!
LMAO
Heheheheh.
He's got a better story than Palpatine though.
the old flag definitely looked better
Nah orange sucks, the red white blue is the true Dutch flag and always has been
@@Trickaz94 nah
i agree, although i would like the orange better with the modern day blue, it would contrast better
@@thatsleepybirb maybe, never thought of it
I like what happens when Hilbert mentions the Dutch
1:20 Why is the F1 Podium Anthem playing?
I thought it was the F1 outtro.
🤣🤣🤣 I was about to give you a serious answer until my tired brain caught up.
12:18 "Let me introduce the NSB." well... That spoils it.
I like that the Prinsenvlag contains orange, but in most examples both the orange aswell as the blue look faded. Like a standard Dutch flag that was bleached by sunlight. A more saturated version would look better in my opinion, just like the Royal Standard.
That's a classic case of the flag looking just fine in the real world while the digital version appears less-than-solid.
This is one of the biggest reasons why the flag with a red stripe and a deeper blue was introduced, because the old flags faded away too quickly on top of our ships 👍
No, the version of light blue and orange is perfectly balanced and frankly it gives it character that it looks like it has been too long at sea bleached by the sun and reminds of the Dutch naval heritage.
"Roundels" on Dutch military aircraft had a somewhat different path: In the first WW, aircraft had an orange circle, between the wars a roundel consisting of red/white/blue in cake-points and an orange dot in the middle. As the 2nd WW started they had orange triangles with a black border. As the war in the Far East escalated, they changed into red/white/blue flags on the planes. After the war, and the Indonesia freedom fighting, the Dutch went back to the interwar roundels. This is still current today, so red/white/blue/orange.
Confusing that the Chech roundels look almost the same
Another fact that even in old paintings both can be seen on ships. The reason for this was that orange was a mixture of red and yellow. After a year of voyage over the seas caused the yellow to have faded away turning the orange into red.
After you said Scheveningen correctly, I'm now sure: een medelander! Interessante video, thanks!
A a south African i like this flag cause its the simbool for my pepole . But i only knew it was part of the Dutch royals and Jan van Ribeek . I did not know anything about the facist stuff . But thats what happens if your history broke of and started its own path 350 years ago.
If they'd even suggest to reintroduce that old flag, they would have received a lot of angry reactions. I believe reintroduction of it has been discussed in the past, but most wouldn't want it because it was too closely connected to the old South African flag and the Apartheid as well (which the Dutch have had a dark influence over in history).
I'm not certain why the light blue was turned into a darker shade, though.
@@williamwilting The darker blue is for the same reason that people like to cruise the boulevard in an open top Ferrari, to show off that they have the money to afford such things. And the Dutch had nothing to do with Apartheid, South Africa had been under British ruling long before that came about. No the reason for Apartheid was concern that shifting demographics could lead to an uprise and they figured that copying the American system of belittling the potential threat would serve to discourage them from actually becoming one.
@@williamwilting The NP government of South Africa actually reverted the flag back to lighter shades of blue and orange in 1982, so i'd say that the minor shade difference isn't really relevant.
@@WhoStoleMyAlias Apartheid had nothing to do with the Dutch, or the British. It had everything to do with the internal politics and demographics of the semi-independent South Africa of the 1940s and 50s.
@@Haankaas I'm pretty sure I wrote the exact same thing...
I'm not from the Netherlands but my reason for preferring the orange striped flag is that the color red is used by every damn flag in the world while orange is very rare and it would be a lot more original than just having a French flag displayed sideways
Thing is, the dutch were 1 of the first to use the red white blue tricolor, so it's the other way around, the French flag is just the Dutch flag on its side
Oi, the French have a Dutch flag displayed sideways, not the other way around! 😉
Now why would that be... Hmmm. Red this. Red that... Roth this Roth that.
Except that the Tricolore is from 1789, while the Statenvlag goes back to the 15th century (and as a national flag to the conception of our nation in 1581).
So the French flag is the Dutch flag sideways, not the other way around.
As a kid I was always confused when the jerseys of fotballers from countries did not appear on the flag. Like Orange for Dutch, Blue for Italy, Green and Orange for Australia, Black and Grey for Aotearoa (New Zealand) aso
Explain to me the logic behind mentioning New Zealand by its native name, but not doing so for the Netherlands.
@@Ticklestein Colonization
because every flag besdies jamacia has red white or blue, with a lot only having them
There are just so many flags with nothing but red, white, and blue, and so few flags with orange, especially among countries with a lot of economic or political strength. The colours work well for two of the most complex flag designs (UK and USA), but it would be cool to see other countries embracing different colours.
In 2011, PVV party member Wim Kortenoeven displayed the prinsenvlag behind the window of his office in the Binnenhof (or someone else hung it there, Kortenoeven denied being in his office at the time). Although it was removed after a short time, PVV spokesman Hero Brinkman told the press he liked the flag and what it stood for, although he acknowledged the flag was unfortunately tainted by it's association with the NSB. Be that as it may, it's clear the prinsenvlag works best when the wind is blowing from the (far) right,
Take a like and leave with your intelligently crafted joke.
Komt mooi uit want als je lekker in het zonnetje zit op je balkonnetje op het zuiden komt in dit land de wind ook meestal van rechts. Linkse wind stikt naar natte hond.
@@offensivebuddist319 Hinga dinga dergen to you too.
True im dutch
Unfair or not, that flag has been tainted and can not be redeemed.
My grandparents in Amsterdam had a fully orange flag next to a red-white-blue. The orange one was flagged on Queens' Day.
Still happens :) we use a little orange slip next to the Statenvlag nowadays
You lost the steenkolenenglish! Great stuff amigo, you switching from your english accent to your dutch one gave me whiplash every time. Complimenten!
I subscribed to thius channel, cuase i knew that if i would not, this treasure of a channel would have been lost forever.
You are an awesome person Hilbert ! Good Luck In Life !
May God Bless You with people that appreciate you just for the way you are.
Very well-researched, down to proper pronunciation. Thank you for making this video.
How did the NSB end up using an orangist flag?
The short story, reunification of all Dutch speaking people, specifically adding Flanders to the Netherlands.
In Flanders there is an orangist movement as part of a larger movement to re-unify Flanders with the Netherlands, and they use the orangist flag, which caused it to become a symbol of 'Groot Neerlandisme', the philosophical and political idea of this re-unification.
Many people in the NSB were in favor of this idea. Until after the nazis invaded the Netherlands, and dismissed this idea, many in the NSB seem to have hoped the nazis would be sympathic to this idea.
As part of this re-unification idea, the NSB adapted the orangist flag as used in Flanders.
And that is another reason why non historical use of it in the Netherlands us frowned upon.
There may well be enough people in the Netherlands supporting Flanders joining the Netherlands if Belgium ends up splitting up, but active political strive for re-unification before such a split happens is controversial.
Similar to Italy where Azure (blue) is from the House of Savoy, worn as the national sports colour, but nowhere to be seen in the flag...
As for the flag: one argument left out in this and the previous video is a very practical one: the saturation of colour - due to natural elements, the primary colour of yellow tends to fade fastest, thus orange faded faster than for example red. And while making a trip to (far) East (Asia) one sets out with orange and arrives with another segment of (almost) white. So, for the sake of more recognizability they used paint to was leaning towards red, rather than orange.
So that's why it used to be called "oranje blanje bleu" (orange white blue). I always wondered. Thank you
Also: as a first aider who was on duty on Koningsdag i can tell you that in addition to dressing up in orange there are also insane amounts of alcohol involved.
Het was: ranje, blanje, bleu
16:10 it shouldn't. It never was their flag, they just took it. (and they mostly used the other flag anyway)
Vichy france used the french flag, and they still use it. And why shouldn't they, it is not a nazi flag.
Prince Bernard was literally a member of the Nazi Party in the Netherlands
It is a Nazi flag, prince Bernard of the Netherlands was literally a Nazi
Be careful, that Batavian Republic flag is actually the naval flag. The Batavian Republic actually used something similar to modern Luxembourg, with a lighter blue, and no emblem in the corner
It is a pity that you don't explain why the light blue in the "prinsenvlag" changed to dark blue in the official Dutch flag.
This light blue appears also in the flag of Luxembourg.
Basically darker blue is easier to spot at sea, so the Dutch navy used a darker shade of blue for their national flags. This eventually became the norm for all flags.
The difference in shades was possible because the exact shades weren't defined until the 1950s.
I do prefer the look of the Orange White & Blue. Looks good and suits their national team colours.
Funny that you would mention the 'Glorious Revolution' in England, but no word on the effects which still are present to this day. I am of course referring to the Orange movement in Northern Ireland, which to this day still have their yearly Orange Marches which cause considerable distress to the Catholics. Our Orange family still tries to distance themselves from it by not speaking about it and avoiding the whole issue, but it is part of their history and therefore also ours.
They’re called the Orange Order (Orange Movement is an Italian political party). Also it isn’t an effect from the revolution, but rather from the Williamite War in Ireland.
Even the Republic of Ireland has orange in it's flag because of Ulster I guess.
very interesting, never knew this history
Very interesting - thank you!
Love it like it is as the national flag and flying the orange "wimpel" on top on princly occasions. Good to have a backup colo[u]r scheme if getting mistaken for French ever becomes a matter of live and death again.
the glorious revolution, neither glorious or actually a revolution.
I watched this as I drank a glass of orange soda
A very Dutch approach
King James II and VII would certainly disagree with that assessment!
neither nor
revolution is a change of power so it was actually a revolution
I think the dutch should use the orange version. It's more unique and historical. In my country the nazis ruined a lot of our old symbols too but we still use them and only assosiate the new sysmbols they created with nazism. So I think it's possible to wash the old flag clean from the wrongdoings associated with the flag
Yeah I've always been saying this but most people don't seem to understand that it has the opposite effect of what they want to achieve. I recall back at my school days, the Lonsdale brand (originally a boxing brand afaik) became fashionable by racist / nationalist types. So at my school they outlawed wearing clothing of this brand, because that would most likely stop people from sympathising with those undesired ideologies, from the common sense that pubescent children (especially the Dutch breed) are famous for how well they respect authority and never show any provocative behavior. But to everyone's surprise, after this new rule was announced at the school, it seemed to only have motivated some students to wear Lonsdale clothing even more days of the week. As if they'd misheard the specifics of the rule in a complete opposite way. Very strange..
The red makes the flag look ugly
Orange all the way.
i wouldn’t say ugly, but i prefer the orange as well
laundry detergent was invented WITH color protection. henceforth, there was no more misunderstanding whether the flag was red or orange. also, UV resistant dyes helped a lot.
i dont care old flag is 1000 times better
I live in the hague and I always wondered what was going on!! Thank you so much.
Something else you might find interesting- when dutch kids pass their end of school exams in their final year, they hang their school bag on the flag that is hung outside their house.
People are all flying their flags today as it is Liberation day!
Ohh. Hoop geleerd. Dankjewel
umm great video but I don't think you put a link to the first one in the description
Oranje-Blanje-Bleu staat toch mooier dan rood-wit-blauw
Beautiful, unique, patriotic.
Bring it back.
great explanation clip ! you didn't dive much into the different shades of blue ...
I'm Dutch and I simply don't care for the prinsenvlag. For me, the Dutch flag is red, white and blue and I've never known it to be otherwise. The orange pennant is of course familiar to me, but I'm not even sure when it's flown. I'm also more of a republican, so I don't really care for that either.
Can’t they just make it a darker orange?🤷♂️
that’s brown…
💀
I am surprised you did not mention the Orange component of the Irish Republic’s flag. It is an obvious reference to William of Orange and the ongoing Northern Ireland situation.
I was there for The Queen's Day in 2000, and it's absolutely mad. But I remembered the Prinsenvlag from when I was a boy (a nerdy boy interested in geography) so when I was in the Netherlands, I asked why the flag changed and the answer I got was that it hadn't. (?) The orange makes it a distinct flag, so I thought, why would they change it? Well, I see, now.
A flag for the summer and a flag for winter.
Awesome.
thanks, now I understand why the royal family appreciates the orange banner added to the red-white-blue flag during Kingsday 🙂
Thank you for this, Hilbert! Now I finally get why Dutch colleagues around me have alluded to this flag as contentious...
We still have an orange pennant on our flags that is attached to the very top of the pole and is as long as the flag itself.
Hey brother you didn't link the old video on the Dutch flag, nor can I find it
Super interessant, dank je.
Spijtig dat de NSB honderden jaren geschiedenis en gebruik in 10 jaar heeft beschadigd. Zonder die geschiedenis zou het een mooi symbool kunnen zijn voor het terugbrengen van patriotisme en kennis van de geweldige Nederlandse geschiedenis
I knew of the recent history, but I always thought they dropped it back in the day because orange was difficult to make and an expensive dye.
Please link to the old video you referred to
Really intersting video. The Red, white and blue does not have the negative associations of the other flags. Besides that, monarchies are a thing of the past and should go there.
From what I know, the flag never "changed" because the prinsenvlag was never officially adopted. Certain people wanted that, sure, but the official flag for the netherlands has always been the red-white-blue.
Just found this channel, it reminded me immediately of The Big Bang Theory, especially their inner series "Fun with flags" hosted by the immortal Sheldon Cooper! LOL. Dit watch it till the end, and was strangely interested!!! Now I'm gonna find out the history of the Confederate Flag, because both the Prinsenvlag and the Confederate flag have the same controversy attached to them. They both meant a LOT in history but should no longer be hoisted thanks to some loudmouth moth**** (self censor there). I like both the prinsenvlag and the Confederate. Not because of what they mean today, but because of what they meant in the past. Unity.
Voor het geval ik het niet kan vinden: Een link stel ik op prijs. Ja ik ben Nederlands! LOL. Goed werk, nieuwe abbo, wil meer zien.
Heraldically there's a bias against using orange, it's an irregular colour despite a few countries like it.
Dutch person here, and I think it'd be nicer to have an orange-white-blue flag rather than a red-white-blue. There are 44 other nations with red-white-blue colours, but I don't think anyone else has orange-white-blue. The Dutch flag with the orange wimpel looks good too though.
Bro, you mention another video, why do you not link it in the description?
Can you make a video about the Dutch Red white and dark blue flag.
Prinsenvlag is de echte originele Nederlandse vlag, en tevens de mooiste versie. Voor mij is de vlag met rood er één van Nederland onder het Amerikaans-globalistische imperium van na de tweede wereldoorlog
Dan ben je een flinke kneus want de prinsenvlag was nooit een officiele vlag en de republiek (opgericht voordat Amerika een concept was) gebruikte het Rood Wit Blauw. Ga weg met je fascistische fvd geneuzel en verhuis lekker naar Moskou. Misschien kan je leven daar wel nut hebben
This could\should be a part of the comedy
The Bigg Bang Theory. 😂😂😂 Fun with flags.
Sheldon? Is that you?
Hello Hilbert. Are your true colours shining through? An orange magpie?
I am Dutch and I love the look of the orange-white-blue flag. Indeed because we have a strong relation with the color orange in sports and also because several other countries also have the red-white-blue flag like we do, albeit with a slight variation, but it simply is not very unique. A number of years ago I started a campaign on facebook to change the flag back to orange-white-blue, just to see how far it would get. Unfortunately I had 1 supporter and number 2 told me about the NSB and that killed my idea completely. I didn't know about this. It's a shame really.
The orange-white-blue tricolour of the 17th-century Netherlands was the basis for the national flag officially hoisted on May 31, 1928, by the Union of South Africa.
What an excellent explanation. Thank you very much. I am Dutch and i learned a lot. Orange-white-blue looks cool. But i doubt it will ever be used again. There is the NSB-history. But there is not enough support for the royal family in modern Dutch society.
I don't find that NSB history so important, there's also Apartheid and like the Orange movement in Northern Ireland. That flag should be laid to rest forever and remanded to history. The Red, White and Blue of the current one is more neutral and not tied to one family, which in my mind is a much better solution. Also it has been the inspiration, even when it was not the official flag, for many other countries.
The Prinsenvlag was the colour of the old South African flag… it was more of a compromise than an ideal for the Afrikaner. Surprising it lasted as long as it did!
There was controversy when South Africa adopted a new flag in 1928 based upon the “oranje blanje bleu”. After Britain conquered all of South Africa in the Boer War the British imposed the Union Jack on South Africa. Afrikaners were unhappy with this. Moderate Afrikaner nationalists (led by Barry Hertzog) succeeded in getting the British Union Jack and “God Save the King” replaced by the “oranje blanje bleu” flag and by “Die Stem”. Two groups of people were unhappy with this. Anglo-South Africans preferred the Union Jack. Radical Afrikaner nationalists (led by D.F. Malan) were unhappy with the 1928 flag because it still incorporated the Union Jack in its design. These radical nationalists became the government in 1948 (and created apartheid) but even though they were unhappy with this ”compromise” Hertzog flag they never changed it
Where is the link in the description?
0:23 link is NOT in the description
I like both flags equally but i do think they should be combined somehow, make the orange some small part of the current red one, like maybe a thin vertical orange line somewhere on it? to show the "power"/influence of current dutch royals (ie: very little, so a thin stripe, but still existent/noteworthy)
Also i think it would be cool if we talk with the countries that stayed/returned under our wings, their old flags being our old flag with their own graphics on top are pretty cool, i would love to see that again with our current day flag or any lets-include-orange-update to it.
New York still has the old Dutch Flag ,but horizontally, you can look it up. The New York Knicks still has those colors on their jerseys, deriving from the old flag
Back in the early 90's, I was just 8 or 9, my teacher who was late in his 60s told me how he loves the orange version and he hoped it would come back. He was a very nice teacher and because of him I loved that flag as well. Until junior high school, someone told me is was an anti dutch flag. And after your video I think my old teacher was maybe a baddie. I'm dutch living in the Netherlands
Maybe He loved the astehtics of it. Not everything we see and like root in politics
You need to be careful about branding people as "maybe bad" based off so little.
A shame the Prinsenvlag Is a great looking flag and distinguishes them from the French and from luxembourg.
The flag would had been cool if it had the blue shading as the new one and the orange color as the old one
Does this story apply to the VOC flag too?
Please don't let criminals rob you from your history and heritage. Vive l'Orange
I am Latvian and we have an analogues problem with the Ugens Krūs being mistaken for the Nazi Swastika, despite being ancient. Very sad.
Both versions are wrong. Thing to realize here is that the original princevlag was created by commoners who did not have access to expensive dyes. The top colour is almost certain to have been dyed with madder root (meekrap in Dutch) that is referred to as being red but often comes out as burned orange. I suppose it may depend on where the plant grows though and it is also fairly likely that the colours would fade over time and so become more orange than red. Present day colours reflect what would have been extreme wealth prior to the second half of 20th century; it's not a people's flag but that of their suppressors.
The flag never really changed, though. The Prinsenvlag was a flag used by the military and by the House of Orange and its supporters. The Statenvlag has been the civil flag since we became a country and was adopted as the sole national flag since 1650. The Batavian flag depicted is just the naval flag by the way, the national flag at the time was still the Statenvlag.
So long story short, the Statenvlag has always been the national flag while the Prinsenvlag was just an old battle flag.
0:20 "link in the description" oh, really? where exactly?)
12:52 of their of their?
I always have problems with the type of blue used in the flag
Alright we have won defeated the house of orange lets change our flag?
The navy: Hmmm what ur cutting out…
I think it is quite sad how nazis hijacked so many cultural symbols that did not have any actual and distinct connections to them.
It was basically a marketing stunt done over and over again. We, as a society, have understandably been cautious about these same symbols' uses after WW2.
However I am quite torn on what would be the best way to look at this. One can argue that using and validating these symbols also, in some way, validates evil ideologies. On the other hand, by "claiming back" these symbols we could diminish the "power" that nazis etc. still sort of hold over us through these taboo symbols.
I don't have a concrete answer whether one is better or the other. What I am certain of is that having more of these sorts of discussions would be beneficial, eye opening and would help us learn more about our identities, history and cultures.
edit: just got the the point where you talk about the irony of nazis using a previously royal symbol to overthrow the royals: the nazis were quite often paradoxical and unclear in their symbolism and public communication. For them partically this was both bad and good. It made the ideology more prevelant publicly and simpler to accept but factually it was also confusing and weird. Might have been a well-executed psy-op or just plain stupidity.
2nd edit: You basically made the same point I did at the end. I maybe could have watched till the end before commenting :D
Unlike the flags of Nazi Germany and Apartheid South Africa, almost no one outside of the Netherlands associates the old Dutch flag with anything bad.
@@MatthewTheWanderer That is true, and if we are talking about potentially "reclaiming" some of these cultural symbols, Prinsenvlag would be easier to "reclaim" than say, the swastika for obvious reasons.
@@iirovaltonen4258 Yes, totally agree.
i would like to know what happened to the Frisian flag ?
Since before Frisia was more than 50% of what now is called the Netherlands
Fryslan boppe
actually the dutch cricket team wears orange jersey
As a Dutch guy, I like the old flag quite a lot but because of the associations I’ll never use it, even if it somehow becomes acceptable.
Isn't the orange of the Republic of Ireland's flag related to the Prinsenvlag?
No. The green white and orange symbolises peace between the nationalist Catholics and Protestant loyalists on the island of Ireland. The loyalists like to think that tbeyvhave a connection to the Dutch house of orange but the Dutch frankly aren't interested 😂.
To be honest, the old one is nicer, Orange means Sun plus Softness of Baby Blue unlike Red aside Passion it also means Rage, Anger, Greed
Isn't this a reupload?
These colors don't run!
Oh they do? Red it is, then!
Portuguese here, in our defense we were under the Spanish when you stole some of our colonies, so you stole them from spain thank you 😅
Great video as well!
I'm dutch, And I prefer the prinsenvlag. Orange is the color that defines us with every single sporting event. Even during liberation from Nazi Germany, the people sang orange above because the royals had to flee. We still sing it during big events. We still have the House of Nassau of Orange of course. Now with your expertise btw, I have a pin of the prinsenvlag. It has a round symbol in the middle. I would like to know more about it, but I can't find anything about it though. Maybe you could help me?
Great video. I'm Dutch and prefer the orange version as well.
I understand the Nsb ruining it, but in my opinion..I don't care. The Nsb is gone. Orange flag just looks cooler, we should reconsider :)
The NSB isn't gone. The name is but we still have far right extremists who like to hold speeches about traditional values and forced remigration and guess what flag is used by a lot of them.
@@MrVlork As if someone speeching about traditional values (in itself a rather vague notion in this day and age) makes them the same as the NSB was/ended up being.
@@MrVlork So reclaim the flag ffs don't let these w*nkers define it. It's an awesome flag and should be the official flag of the Netherlands.
As a Dutch person I prefer the prinsenvlag visually and symbolically, but the connection to the NSB just makes it too tainted to use unfortunately
miet
Ben blij dat we die vlag hebben afgeschaft, nu die monarchie nog
@@Trickaz94 maar de rode vlag is zo saai, letterlijk elk Europees land heeft die kleuren.
@@Vetiyx klopt en Nederland was 1 van de eerste landen die het rood wit blauw tricolor gebruikte, dus waarom zouden wij dan onze vlag gaan veranderen? Wees trots dat landen als Frankrijk ons concept hebben "gestolen"
I never thought about this but is it possiblethathe New York Mets baseball team colors ,orange white and blue, a no to New Yorks former name New Amsterdam and part in the Dutch Empire? Probably a stretch but now im curious.(edit...I just looked it up and that IS the reason, holy shit)
Im form the Netherlands and i like the flag