THAAD, Patriot & NASAMS vs US Carrier Group: Which Is The Ultimate Layered Defense? | DCS
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
- Today we look at two different methods of US layered anti-ballistic missile air defense. We test and compare the Army's THAAD, Patriot, NASAMS, C-RAM 4-layer system against the Navy SM-3, SM-6, SM-2, ESSM and CIWS 5-layer system. As part of the test we fire more than 50 Chinese DF-26 ballistic missiles at each system.
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0:00 Overview
2:28 Weapon Technical Details
8:01 Scenario Details
10:00 Predictions
11:08 50 Ballistic Missiles vs US Navy Carrier Strike Group
16:01 50 Ballistic Missiles vs THAAD, Patriot & NASAMS-3
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#WarGames #GRWarGames #DCSQuestioned #THAAD #Patriot #NASAMS #AircraftCarrier #BallisticMissile #AviationGaming #FlightSimulators #militaryhistory #DCS #DCSWORLD - Ігри
Hi Cap! I was wondering if there was any way to do a mass JDAM strike from a B-1 or B-2 with individually-targeted munitions to see how many targets a single bomber can destroy in a base (after SEAD destroys SAM radars and SHORAD of course.) I got the idea from the video “B-2 drops 80 JDAMS” from about 9 years ago here on UA-cam which show the insane accuracy and efficiency of each guided bomb. Could even use glide kits perhaps?
They've done this many times, JDAM it's exactly the Target that it's targeted at. They've done it literally dozens of times
I've done this recently, let me see if I can find vid.
I think this one was a mass JDAM attack from B-2/21? ua-cam.com/video/_B7TiDU9zcs/v-deo.html
@@grimreapers thanks so much Cap! Your videos have been my #1 source of entertainment for over a year now and I love each one.
I just seen a story about a marine designed plane OV bronco they said it was the grandfather of the A10. Have y’all ever heard of it? I had never seen it before.
THAAD is a huge addition. Great work!!
Yup! Now all we need is Enduring Shield!👍
Fingers crossed all went well Cap. The boys did "beyond brilliantly" filling in for the past couple days. ("Helicopter hill-top parking" surprisingly similar to roof-top Thaad, btw... except more left-over 'copter bits!)
And yeah, "really bloody well done" here. Such good info and expertise from CH! No idea how he pulls that off.
i really liked the ground crew pov they did on that video too... and even included getting shot at by infantry. the gunship was terrifying.
No left over bits, it's called weight reduction 😂
Your passion for DCS never ceases to amaze !
Thanks!
5:03 That’s how sm-3 deploys its kill vehicle, the “green” part on thaad is the kill vehicle itself, the nosecone is but a fairing protecting the ir seeker underneath
OMG ITS CAP! Hope you are doing better now.
might be an older recording. Hope the same of course but without rushing it...
Most viewers would probably survive a few weeks without daily videos.
I believe this was prerecorded so GR would have some content to release when he was gone. But it's still good to hear his voice
@@valuedhumanoid6574what's happened to Cap?
@@Matt_Rides He's sick. He said a few videos ago he's going to be hospitalized for a time. Don't know what's wrong, don't want to speculate.
@@valuedhumanoid6574 ahhh I think it's the cancer he's been fighting. I remember seeing a while that he had cancer. Hope it's not that and he's OK.
Welcome back Cap!
It's crazy how many SAMs were launched were launched in that short final phase of the land battery attempt, so much so that some PAC-3s were getting hit by the NASAMs on the way up. The red entries on the left-hand side log @ 24:00, 25:06 and 25:12. Mindblowing.
I used to build modules for the THAAD radar system.
Awesome :)
16:52 "WAAAGNERRRR!"
(I'll never stop saying it)
oof, not allowed to say that any more.
@@grimreapersThe ppl want it CAP, you must give them what the ppl want
One slight correction SM-3 is by far a larger and more capable missle than THADD rather than the other way around. An SM-3 Block I weighs 1,500 kg (3,300 lbs) and THADD is 900 kg (2,000 lb). Range and max altitude also are heavily in the SM-3s favor with the SM-3 being designed for exoatmospheric midcourse intercepts of ballistic missiles while THADD as its name implies is designed for high altitude terminal intercepts.
Hi Cap. Hope you're feeling better.
That was a good little test. Nice work CH.
You sound much better, Cap. Proud to be a valued viewer.
CH does some fantastic work with these mods, keep up the great work.
The 120 degree doctrine is (in my theory) due to radar emission interference. If you point a radar at a coms antenna, even an antenna tuned for a completely different frequency, you're still broadcasting HUGE unclassified MW of power at a receiver who normally listens to uW. So you can either go above telephone pole style (which is easier seen from the ground), or go directional, so you can have Command and Control coms on the inside of the circle, and radars pointed outside the circle. By not transmitting towards your own equipment, you don't have to program azimuth broadcast block angles and break locks when the bandit flies behind your own equipment.
Na, its the difference between defensive technology and offensive technology
CH is a blessing to all of us
We _are_ doing very well, Cap, thanks for asking. Wonderfully well, even. Glad to hear you back in action.
welcome back Cap. Hope all is well ? You'll be happy to know in the previous vid, only 1 Huey was taken out by 'green on green' action. Last words from pilot, " Ouch, bye.. ",
Glad your felling better Cap, & great work again CH, the THAAD is defo a good addition to DCS.
Always love CH's work, just awesome.
I know DCS is mostly an air combat simulator, but videos like these and the naval battles are by far my favourites. :D
actually patriot mse missiles have their own radar seekers for fine tuning when closer to target, and that makes it so too many missiles dont hit the same TBM, we fire a set number of missiles per TBM to achieve 100% pK. -patriot operator
Does the integration of long range fires, advanced air defence systems, and lasers bring back the concept of land ships?
Thanks for the video, Cap!
Glad you're back cap
Great job with the modeling CH! Get Well Soon Cap!
Good to see ya back, Cap. The boys did good in your absence but it isn't quite a GR video without the Cap!
CAP!!! Happy to see you back! Hope you're doing better!
Hope you getting well Capt!
This is cool, I live just south of Bodø, and Cap fired a ballistic missile from the roof of the civilian terminal at Bodø Airport 😅 👍
Once again CH makes GREAT toys! :) Glad to hear you Cap, you sound good.
your back Cap yay!!
Great to hear a healthy sounding Cap on this video.
I wonder if anyone has ever tried putting a hotdog on a stick in front of a THAAD radar to cook it for science?
Altitude max of SM3 is wayyyyy more than this. It's like way over 200km so like 600 000ft
According to Wiki SM-3 (depending on the variant) has a flight ceiling of 500 miles.. thats like 2 million feet lol a bit farther than the 330,000 feet of the SM-3 here in the game
Yeah, the SM-3 Blk IIA has an insanely high max altitude.
That's for SM-3 Block Ia/Ib. Block II on the other hand can reach double of that or more as they need to intercept ICBMs with 2000km apogees.
Welcome back cap
Can the ships replenish their missiles after an attack at sea or do they have to return to port? Great video Cap! Get well soon
In game they actually can not re-arm at all yet.
yay caps back everyone did okay channel is okay take care of yourself
Well, i'll be...
Welcome to Norway, Cap.
Greetings from Oslo. 🇳🇴
Only one battery is in service, but the Armyvis getting their own ground launched SM-6 and Tomahawk launchers (the Typhon Missile System, basically a Mk41 VLS in a trailer...) Granted it's a single battery with a max salvo of 6 missiles before needing reloaded, but if we can hypothetical 50 DF-26 vs 6x THAAD 6x PAC-3, and 6x NASAM, we can prob add 6x SM-6 battery as well lol... Wonder how much that would impact the scenario?
Thanks
Oh cool, welcome back. Your boys did fine but we missed your voice :)
Awesome
The army navy game we didn't know we needed
Yup and we are all addicted now 😂
Cap. Hope you're doing well. The boy's did a great job covering you, but you were missed
Up on the roof
Thinking of that song
In the CV CIC some one screams VAMPIRE VAMPIRE VAMPIRE!
And faces go Pale thought the CSG!
Well land based units can store more reloads. That's one reason the Chinese are so nervous about the new Marine units with antiship missiles.
The SM-3 is bigger and goes farther than thaad in reality. At least the SM-3 blk. IIa
The other versions as well
I'd love to see Ground Based Interceptor modded into DCS
What do you think the Patriot and THAAD are? They are ground-based interceptors and these are mods for DCS.
What are you talking about
Cap is back!
Thanks Brian!
throwing everything at us including the kitchen sink from the one in the house.
Cool Stuff! ..but can you do it with an F-86 Sabre? 😉
Get well Cap! 😀
Im more impressed by how fast billion dollars went in smoke. Amazing
LTAMDS has 360 coverage👍
I think that's just for Patriot missiles?
@@grimreapers I believe they're all linked together
@@grimreapers Now you just need Enduring Shield and M-Shorad!
25:10 "PAC-3 has been hit by NASAMS"
Maybe also do a ballistic+cruise missile time on target version if possible?
I do not know anything about the TacView, but, it looked like it was saying that there was some friendly fire in there? Was that true?
THAAD hitting Patriots
I am pretty sure that SM-3 would have a higher max altitude than THAAD. SM-3 does exo atmospheric interceptions while THAAD does endo atmospheric ones.
a 3 minute and 21 second un-skippable Ad...
UA-cam are REALLY taking the p155!
Wow! Well done for waiting.
Great stuff, but shouldn't the anti ballistic missiles be positioning themselves directly in the path of the incoming ballistic missiles ? It seems like they are trying to hit from the side which seems odd.
I'm guessing you didn't watch the video? Because that's exactly what is happening. The ballistic missiles were fired at the naval units. And then they were fired at a ground base that had the defense system right behind it. I'm not sure what video you watched
Good evening gentleman, I would like to make another request if you all havent done this yet. Scenario : the Movie Fail Safe with Henry Fonda and cast. I would like Cap and his team to split up into 2 groups. I would like Cap to command the Bombing group of Convair YB-58A-1-CF Hustlers, and Simba and the rest of the team fly the MiG-21s sent in to intercept these vindicators from delivering there payload. if the mig 21 isnt the right choice, you can try using the french Mirage of that era. also needd to be included are the missle systems of that era based around the city as last defense. I thought your team would love this tactical scenario. Keep up the great work guys. Mike from Chandler AZ
There are no B-58 Hustlers in DCS.
@@warbuzzard7167 we can change that to a group of B52-G Stratofortress instead.
Cap back👍
Can you do a Cold War version? PAC1 + HAWK + Chaparal + Roland vs a virtual shitload of Soviet missiles?
All the missiles were get through because they weren't designed for anti-ballistic use, contrary to what you may have heard those were all anti-aircraft missile systems
SM3 has a flight ceiling of 550 miles and speed of mach 13 whereas THAAD has a flight ceiling of 93 miles and speed of mach 8.....that is if wiki is to be believed.
Flight ceiling of 550 miles? That's higher than quite a lot of sattelites
@@patricktho6546 well it's designed to take on satellites and ballistic missiles coming down from the exosphere
Yeah…. That’s WIKI
@@thepatriot676 And it is likely true. It is an exo atmospheric weapon. It isn’t that hard to go mach 13 when you are in space.
@@cyronaderNot even coming down from the exosphere, but just in the exosphere. It can intercept them in the middle of their course.
Huh? How long was Cap gone for? I just had a cold for a couple of days.
Yeay… Bodø❤️
I wonder, with so many targets coming in in a "blob" or "cluster", does it actually make the radar have a harder time picking out each object to hit?
Not at all, not with the amount of power Behind These radars and they have the Fidelity to pick up individual targets
I don't know, but if one crosses in front of another, surely that would confuse a radar?
I know you said about the layout of the defensive land based missiles would not make a difference, but... would you try and set them apart a little more, maybe into three sections. The deconfliction of the defensive network must be harder with them all together. Or is it just that the defensive DCS setup as you have it in this video would make no difference to the success rate?
In real life they would probably be several kilometers apart. DCS treats it as the same so it would not make any difference how far you put them apart realistically
Navy vs Army… is it rugger, is it ‘Football’, no it’s robot wars 😝
Hey Cap. The SM-6 is deployed by the Army via the Typhon system and is the intermediate range missile currently in service to assist Patriot. NASAMS isn't actually deployed in the big US military and as far as I'm aware, is deployed in Washington DC and then Sweden (I believe) and Ukraine.
The new Typon missile launchers fired both SM-6 and Tomahawks, and the capability is massive since the US recently deployed the first version of their new integrated fire control sensor network, where they're deliberately designing all systems (all sensors/radars/data collection points from land/sea/air/space assets) to be collected and used together across all weapon systems. Theoretically, this means an F-35 can use its thermal imaging sensor to detect a ballistic missile launch, while also being picked up by a satellite picking up that ballistic missile launch, and then any radars from ships or ground-based radards between the ballistic missile's launch point and target can be used by the Aegis/THAAD/Patriot/Ground-Based Midcourse Defense/Typhon/any other system to then shoot down the incoming missile.
I hope you're doing well Cap.
NASAMS stood originally for Norwegian Adapted Surface to Air Missile System, developed from US components like missiles, launchers and radars, but some software and the Fire Distribution Center FDC are, I believe, Norwegian. I don't think Sweden has got any of these, but we do of course in Norway.
As for Cap; I think this video was made before he left the building... Fingers crossed and best wishes 🤞
Thanks J
@@jeoverv I admit, I was lazy as hell. I should have thought about it for a bit more, N for Norway. Thank you!
Just a weird question.. But isnt there only two Flight III's in service?
Out of curiosity what was the PK of the THAAD interceptors? Based on the Tacview it looked pretty terrible.
Currently it's 100% in real life.
It looked like about 60-70% in game? Not sure. Not sure why so many misses?
@@grimreapers Ah ok, that seems pretty reasonable. It just looked like it was much lower from the video but sometimes that can be deceptive just "eyeballing it". Thanks for the response!
Map looks great at high altitude.
You need to add the mim-23 Hawk system at some point. It's still in service and is being used in the Ukraine war.
What about the Dutch SMART-L-ER?
Whatever happened to THAAD-ER?
The patriot has a missile that fills the gap between Thaad and patriot its pac-3 mse
At 6:20 in the video you can see that they actually modelled PAC-3 MSE
I don't think Cap was sick. I believe he hit the pub and was hungover. Now I maybe wrong but he got better awful quick.
Haha unfortunately Cap get sick all time…feel sorry for him
THAAD-ER is a multi-stage missile
Go Army, Beat Navy!
2 things. Ballistic missiles like the DF26 are designed to be used at 2000km+ range, meaning that at 200km they would be firing at incredibly high parabolas. Reaching well over 1000km in altitude and basically coming down vertically on the target.
MRBM type missiles like the DF26 would carry decoys which would greatly complicate interception up until the very last couple dozen km.
And in reality, nobody has proven that they can hit a moving Naval Target from thousands of miles away with a Hypersonic vehicle. Take things with a grain of salt😂😂
@@Wyomingchief satellite guidance is a thing.
Fair point. Currently limited to 300,000ft in DCS.
THAAD seemed to be too nerfed in this simulation.
The gap between THAAD and Patriot is too large.
The solution is more THAAD intercepting earlier in the enemy parabola.
Agreed
With a battle group you have multiple targets, missiles towards each of them, kind of spreads just a little, the land target, you have all of those systems protecting 1 building, missiles lining up, same targets, thaad and patriot dont get used, at least very rarely, to protect 1 single target. Usually an entire target area, multiple facilities, infrastructure, an air field with many craft long runway, etc.
You also realize that this is a computer simulation? And based on that and based on the way DCS works it doesn't really matter. This is a simulation based on publicly available information, and it's not meant to simulate or be conclusive to what the real thing can do😂
Welcome back Cap. The boys did a thing in your absence. Hope your bowels did not climb through your next and throttle your brain, because that's also totally a thing
Almost makes you wonder why they don’t just replace THAAD and Patriot with SM-type myssiles
They are - there is a land based mk41 VLS system under development
Not to mention AEGIS Ashore
Because they are designed for different missions.
@@totalNERD-eo7wx There is also a sea based PAC-3 MSE missile under development. So the replacement could also go the other way...
In reality they will not replace eachother but will complement each other on both land and sea.
@@nietkees6906 Ah, just looked at the specs and it seems like PAC-3 MSE is better than the SM-2MR in almost every way. Of course, PAC-3 cannot compete with SM-6 and SM-3. It would make a cheap complement to the SM-3.
For SCIENCE!
And that's what the US relies on for our nuclear missle defense
You do realize this is a simulation based on nothing but conjecture? 😂 the real system,THAAD literally has a 100% interception rate at this point
Caaap
SM-3 is a much better missile than thaad regarding interception. Don't know why in DCS it's different.
Glad to hear your dulcet snark again Cap, get healthy soon!
Aegis ashore would be better at targeting
So THAAD is a kinetic energy weapon?
yes
Any missile is a kinetic energy weapon. Either by using hit to kill or by shrapnell.
Your using Norway as a test ground 🥲🥲
Just a small tiny clarification: The THAAD is FAAAARRR HUGELLY LESS CAPABLE than the SM-3.
No because it's not designed to do the same thing.
@@Wyomingchief Correct. The SM-3 has shown the ability intercept ICBM type targets. Thats 8 Km/s targets (~mach 24). While the THAAD is no capable of that. THAAD has been tested up to 2.5 Km/s targets (~mach 8).
@@adrianpaz472But on the other hand SM-3 can't intercept short range ballistic missiles, while THAAD can. They were designed for a different mission.
@@nietkees6906 correct, but that’s where the SM-6 come in with better characteristics than the THAAD. There is a region at high altitude where the THAAD could perform better than the SM-3 and SM-6, but overall these two missiles are far better than THAAD.
@@adrianpaz472 SM-6 is not better than THAAD. SM-6 has likely less range against ballistic missiles than THAAD and also is not hit to kill. Even PAC-3 MSE is better against ballistic missiles than SM-6.
SM-6 is however more versatile as it can also intercept aircraft and cruise missiles at very long ranges. And it can even be used in a surface attack mode.
The hit % for THAAD was pathetic. It should hit at least 35% or don't use it.
Well theoretically it should hit 100% because that's what it's done so far. But again this is a computer mod based on publicly available information
@@Wyomingchief I know. I watched some of the thermal intercepts and is amazing.
3:55 Russian systems also tend to frag their own aircraft. sometimes, you just have to trust the people behind you to remember what team they're on.
I lose 42% of my paycheck to pay my income tax. Now I know why. $12 million for one SM3 really drives it home.
Yarp...
Range far range fast 😁
S-400 vs DF-26
Will try.
@@grimreapers Ok, Thx!