FANTASTIC! The 16 was my dad’s dream fighter to fly….IF he had the chance; he was an old USAF stick…28, 33, F80, 84, 86, 100, A1E. He’s still around at 94- and watches your stuff weekly. THX Mover.
That's awesome! There's something about the Sabre that is just sexy. Watching what it could do and the way pilots that flew her talked about it...that era of air to air jet fighting is my favorite to read about. Tell him I said Thanks for his service! And for me, the coolest era pilots to do it!! 🤙
My father, a six victory P-38 ace would say that the P-47 was his favorite fighter. He spent 27 years in, retiring as a B-52 check airman. He did fly the T-38 in the mid-sixties for currency. He said that was his favorite jet!
I use to know many years ago. A flying tiger. I mowed his lawn. Amazing man!! I was in awe every time he was around me. This was years ago I was 10 he was in his 60’s maybe. It was a different world. They flew with experience, knowledge and courage. No electronics back then! Not like now. Not that current pilots don’t have those. It was just different. Different time. Hope that makes sense.
I had an opportunity to have dinner with Robert L. Shaw back in the 90's. (authored a book on Fighter Tactics) He flew Tomcats then after he left the Navy he went USAF in the reserves flying F15 IIRC. I asked him what it was like flying for the different branches. (Paraphrasing here) "the Air Force gave us a list of things "we could do" and we were not supposed to deviate from that. The Navy gave us a short list of things "we couldn't do", and everything else was fair game." Did you find a cultural difference in the flying between the branches?
If I don't remember wrong, Mover said so in an earlier video that the Air Force was a lot more planned and rigid unless you went "cross country" flying, while the navy was a more free.
Definitely a culture difference. Shaw was pretty much right. BUT…that doesn’t mean flying Navy is more “fun.” In my opinion, it actually made them more dangerous. Almost without fail, every time I flew with Navy guys, they would be violating training rules. Mostly it was being out of their block. I always anticipated it so I was never caught off guard.
It's always interesting to see the other perspective. And certainly good to hear from someone who has flown both. As a Marine Hornet pilot (almost 2000 hours). I can say the opposite of what mover said, and that is every time i was scheduled to do a 1V1 dissimilar with the USAF (whether F-16 or F-15) it was never close (well almost never). We referred to it as "clubbing baby seals". He is correct, if a hornet pilot makes a mistake the jet won't get him out of it. but it's is certainly easy to force one circle flow and get a quick kill using the hornet. And most Air Force guys didn't seem to know how to counter our some of our favorite one circle maneuvers. referencing the "well almost never", i did go up against an F-15C from the FANG that kicked my butt all over the sky. no kills, but i was defensive almost all day. turns out he was a prior USN hornet guy that joined the guard. in conclusion... I always wanted to get a ride in a Viper 😀 thanks for the video!!!
I can't speak for which jet is better, but I work at a Naval Air Station where F18 pilots are taught to fly the F16. It's always fun to watch them get out of the cockpit after their first flight. They're grinning from ear to ear. They love that little hot rod.
Did you get a chance to fly the Super Hornet? I wonder if the thrust issue has been fixed or if the jet can get you out of it if you make a mistake. I want to make a weird hybrid with F-35 engines; that would be wicked!
@@chris-C8I never got qualified in the Rhino. (some get dual qual'd if they were RAG instructors). the issue with the Rhino (as I understand it) is the pylons are canted outward for stability. creating lots of drag. a "slick" Rhino is a beast I've been told. tho, i don't think it would outperform a slick F/A-18A+ but the Rhino's radar is exponentially superior to any legacy hornet.
I remember in Iraq years ago flying some F-16 pilots around and they watched up suit up to fly them in our UH-60s We wore body armor with front and back plates a survival vest with our M9 pistol ,4 magazines , survival radio, etc Plus loading the M240 in the window. They asked me how much does all the shit weigh? (45 lbs or more). Then the flight helmet with NVG's and a weight bag. The they asked what all the plates on the floor were for.. ballistic plating.. they found a whole new respect for Army aviators after that! Then we dipped down to less than 50 feet and flew as fast as we could. Respect earned.
Great video. I flew the F-16, mostly Block 30s, for about 10 years in the AF. It was so much fun we all thought we should be paying them instead of them paying us. One of many things I thought was different about the F-16 than any other airplane I flew was the sensation you get when you first start flying it is that you are sitting on top of the jet instead of down in it. It was a problem in the weather because you felt like you were sticking up into the clouds and looking down into the cockpit for the instruments. It was easy to get disoriented in the weather in the F-16 and that actually led to several accidents.
i fly simulators(BMS, DCS) i fly the F16AM block 20 RNLAF in BMS and the block 50 in DCS they are very similar and different. the autopilot is a great example (STRG SEL VS HDG SEL)
@@captaincurd2681 Yep, they tend to tippy toe down the runway until they slow down. That is because they are well within the flying speed when they land. Can't slow down anymore or you will drag the speed brakes.
Correct me if I'm wrong....The F16 with the GE engine (Block 30 big mouth) set up with an air to air configuration had a thrust to weight ratio of 1 to 1. Air to air Configuration is around 26,500 lbs and the GE engine has a max thrust of just over 28k lbs. The Pratt engine max thrust is just over 23k lbs. Why the air force put so many Pratt engines in the F16s is irritating. I get why though. The Air Force thought that If they used 2 different engines, that it would cause competition to keep prices down. Block 30 big mouth inlets have RAM coating on them to reduce the Radar Cross Section for the bigger inlet size.
I'm 6'2", years ago flew airshows in a 450 Stearman. Had an F-15 Pilot wanting to go up in the Stearman so bad, so after the show, we went up and had a blast, he did quite well once he remembered there were rudder pedals in the plane, Ha! "He was a natural actually" afterwards, he let me sit in the cockpit of his C model F-15 and I could not believe how tight the cockpit was. He said afterwards we could go over to the F-16 and give that one a try to see how tight it was, Holy Cow! I was 6'2" 175 pounds at the time, 32' waist, and the F-16 was clostraphobic! I don't see how guy's over 6' could sit for hours on end in the F-16. But I was extremely lucky to be allowed to even sit in the cockpit! This was in the early 90's and it was one of the Belle Chase Cajun Militia Squadron's F-15's and it surprised me that he had a rifle scope mounted on top of his instrument panel glare shield next to his HUD for drug plane intercepts, he could visually ID the aircraft through the rifle scope. I was a cheap fix and did the job! F-15 Sniper! Ha!
What up, brother? Mouth here from NAS JRB New Orleans Air Guard. I didnt know you flew the Hornet as well. Man, youre the Swiss Army knife of pilots becuase you flew the Hogs as well! Lol! After 29 years, its time for me to hang it up, brother. I loved my time and now, just awaiting medical retirement, brother. This E1 made it to O5 and Im more than grateful. Always good seeing your videos! As always, thank you for your service! 🫡
LOL... I was mesmerized at how much knowledge of the aircraft and flight characteristic differences you went over, while I sat and fantasized about the days I wanted to be a fighter pilot in my youth. I know a bit more about flight since then, now 62 years old working on my bucket list dream to become a pilot before I die.. I'm a handful of hours away from my private pilots' license. My Instructor, a retired Air Force B52/B1 bomber pilot said I was a natural and let me solo after 6 hours of flight training. I LOVE FLYING!!! But sir, wow just wow on the mental sharpness you have and the amount of knowledge you learned to do what you have done is most impressive! BRAVO to you and all our winged heros!!! I wished I had been able to have that opportunity... Just incredible to listen to you and read between the huge gaps in the story line.. Fantastic journey you took me on today sir! Thank you for the ride alongs...
Got my private ticket at 32 and had a national guard pilot as a stand in instructor once. He took the plane and mock strafed some beehives in a beechcraft. I never trusted a military pilot again. Reckless and full of himself.
Your go until told no catchphrase has gotten me further than I ever should have in this process. Passed all the tests and got caught at Meps with some slight hearing issue. Got fully denied from navy and Air Force. Admiral decided he needed more applicants so he fired the navy SG and waived me in. Recruiter told me I could do anything but aviation, so I emailed the admiral directly. Admiral referred me to a new recruiter and I’m now putting in my pilots package next week.
😅I live in Auburn CA and we had one of the best pilots passed away on the 17th of May Brig Gen Bud Anderson. This pilot was increditeable. He was a Tripple ACE pilot in World War ll. P51 OLD CROW He flew over a 130 different aircraft over 7500 hours. He was 102 years old. Thank you Mover. This was a great edit for sure.
That’s a shame. It sucks we’re losing the people who experienced ww2. We have a lot of young people today who try to Monday morning quarterback ww2. They take for granted the human cost of that war and take our freedoms for granted. Not trying to trash young people. We all should probably better acknowledge the sacrifices the greatest generation made for this country. True heroes.
Hi Mover - Career Hornet guy. I appreciated this video. Brought back alot of memories. Can't argue with your assessment of the strengths and weaknesses. I always felt a little underthrusted with the early lot Hornets which is probably what you were flying in VFA-204 (I flew in VFA-201 out of Ft Worth for a while and we had lot 8's). The EPE engines introduced in the Lot15's helped out alot. But my memories of fighting big mouth Vipers were not that great - they seemed to press energy fights more often, better in the vertical....my only hope was to wear it down to a position fight - but even then they could crawl up into an altitude sanctuary. One thing that I really agree with is your "first love". For me that was and always will be the A-4. I flew a thousand hours in 30 months - much of it teaching guns only ACM to training command students. I got almost too comfortable in that,(you may know what I mean) - fortunatley I survived that tour - but yeah - it was a wonderful airplane and I was never more at home in that!
I have a friend who flew for the Air Force, started in F4s, was one of the few who flew the F117s, ended his career in A10s, several others in between and when I asked him what his favorite was, without hesitation he said the F4. It was his first jet, his first love.
Yeah my dad loved the F4. He was a test pilot at McDonnell during the sixties, navy fighter during WWII. An ace flying Grumman F6F from carriers of course.
I had the distinct honor of serving as a flight surgeon for a Canadian F-18 squadron (A and B models). Spent as much time as possible in the back seat and utterly loved it. But I also managed to get approved to hop in the back seat of a Viper for a 2v2 sortie against F-15's. Last engagement was guns only (of course) and that was the only time I pulled sustained 9 G's. I did fine, but oh my, what a work out. Very hard on the body. I was blown away by the F-16's visibility (even in the back seat), responsiveness, and power to weight ratio. Amazing airplane.
The Navy "wear your helmet to the jet" makes sense when you realize that the Carrier Flight Deck is a "Protective Headgear" area. Too much shit going on within a much more confined space than an Air Force Air Base. So they want everyone used to "wear the Helmet". You are much less likely to encounter the wirling blades of death of a Helo Tail Roter or a C-2's props walking out to you F-16's parking stand. Plus on the Carrier Deck anything can become an unexpected projectile should the ship catch a rough patch of sea or a nasty cross wind. The Cockpit Ladder is a lot more threatening and dangerous when it is actually airborne and flying at your face.It's one of those "good habits avoid messy cleanups" rules.
Or someone turn the wrong way and send you bouncing down the deck like a piece of paper. My uncle lost a crewman on his fueling crew when an aviator turned wrong.
We had a man overboard on the Lincoln on the way back from the second gulf war. They turned an E-2C on the fight deck with the props spun up and there was a guy they didn't see on a stepladder doing some kind of maintenance on another plane. The word was that his ladder got blown away and he was actually holding onto the plane for a second until he couldn't and ended up over the side. The sars guys got him back and he was pretty shaken up but ok. I'm sure a few people lost some chunks of ass cheek over that one.
If a whirling prop or rotor hits your head, ain't no helmet gonna help! The helmets we wore as ''deck-apes" were in case ya bumped yer noggin while working under wings and walked into a wing or the many things sticking out. They also included eye & hearing protectors. The helmets the F-18 pilots wear are some super-expensive contraptions and 'tuned' to the wearer.
I enjoy reading all these comments from the wonderful military aviation enthusiasts. I'm 6'6" and 200# and was very fortunate to have been a Naval Aviator. In the '60s-'80s there were lots of old and new fighters to fly. I had hundres of hours F-11s F-8s, F-4s, and some time in F-18s. In addition I flew A-1s and OV-10s. I tried to fly the little A-4 but it was simply impossible for a guy my size to fit into that very small cockpit. I was a Marine and flew 337 combat missions in the Phantom in Vietnam. All the foregoing to say, I think my muscles and bones have never recovered from the contortions and bends into which they were forced to fit the tiny confines of those cockpits. Some of the planes were roomier than others but none was comfortable. But then the cockpits weren't intended for naps. All in all, I'm most gratefull for the opportunity that our military gave me to fly those burning gas tanks. I am very greatful to our Country and the guys that I flew with. Also, hat's off the crews that kept the planes in perfect operation.
it's also why switzerland uses the F/A 18. we don't need them to take off and land on a ship. we need them to take off and land in the mountains, sometimes in hidden bases (basically flying into a sort of cave built into the mountain wall). we need short landing and takeoff, but for very different reasons than the US navy
My dad (passed away a year ago) was an engineer for General Electric Aerospace Engineering Systems Division. He was the senior engineer for development of the first heads up display for the Navy. The project came up because of occasional accidents due to pilots taking their eys off the window, landing on a carrier. I think of him every time I see a video showing one.
My corvette thanks him too! My dad was McDonnell Douglas, NASA, Hughes Aircraft, Boeing. It’s amazing how many autos have HUD’s now, all thanks to your dad! Awesome!
Mover enjoyed your video. Great comparison of the two GREAT fighters of today. But LOL. All you young guys quibble over the weapons systems controls today. Try flying while switching weapons stations and the master arm switch between your legs on the instrument panel in a bombing run. All toggle or rotary switches. I Remember...If you did not trim an A-4, it would bite you! And the auto-pilot, such as it was, did not usually work. Well, I still love the Scooter and it got me on/off the boat safely for over 200 traps and over 1200 hours of flight time. A-4s Forever!
And no HUD! Just Mark 1 Mod 0 dive bombing, WW2 style with a reflector gunsight that wasn't any more advanced than the ones found in Wildcats, Hellcats & Corsairs (I think the reticle was identical)! Amazing stuff really. Skyhawks forever indeed!
Even more impressive doing all of that crammed into a cockpit seemingly built for a small child. The A-4's a cool machine but there is not an inch of extra space anywhere on that airplane. It's uncomfortable enough to work on, I can't imagine trying to fight a war in it.
I spent a lot of years in the marines as a f18 plane captain, cdi, turn qual, qar.....this video has shown me sooooo much cool stuff about the aspects of the f18 i never got to experience!
Great video Mover!!! I am in agreement with you having flown many fighters. 2000 hours in the F4E, 3200 hours in the Viper (all blocks). A as handful of hours in the F-5 & F-18. Thousands of hours airline time W/AA. Flew for over 30+ years; paid for the high G’s in the Viper with multiple spine surgeries as I got older. All good!!! Thanks for sharing‼️👍👊💪🇺🇸
How were you able to fly all Block variants of the F16? There's so many blocks and from what I can tell(from researching online) you might be the only one to have flown all variants.....
I spent 22 years as a C-130 crew chief in the Ca Air Guard, and we had a good relationship with our aircrews. The young pilots, while being trained by the older experienced guys would remind them that the crew chief owned the airplane, we were nice enough to let the pilots use it. As crew chief, we always did everything possible to make the crew’s life easy. Seatbelts ready over the headrests, windows cleaned, if hot heat shields left in until the last minute. If cold try and heat the inside if possible.
Interesting observation starting at 21:20 Never been in military aviation myself, but back in the day I terrorized the skies in both light planes and gliders. Whether a left or right turn is easier to initiate is more or less dependent on the hand you’re flying with. In a plane where you’re in the left seat with the left hand on the yoke, a right roll is easier to initiate than a left. The opposite is true when you’re flying with a stick in your right hand. Either way, it’s still flying and it’s freaking awesome, regardless which hand you’re flying with. I get a kick out of your videos; hell, you might even inspire me to start flying again.
When I was with an armored battalion in Germany in the seventies, I remember how envious I was when I found out the Brits had hot water in their tanks for making tea...
I could swear I remember hearing that the B-52 had bunks and something of a kitchenette…however, that was a long time ago-like 30+ years-so possibly I daydreamed it.
My Late Father was Lt. Col. Robert "Cass" Cassaro had over 8,000 hours in the F-16, he was a Flight Instructor for the Arizona Air National Guard. He was also Misty 83 with the F-100 in Viet Nam. He would have really liked your video. Thanks
8k hours in the F16??? He would hold the record for most flight hours in the F16.....when I look up who has the most flight hours in the F16....your father's name isn't coming up for 8k hours...shows 6k hours for the most hours flown and its from a Lt. Col.Mike Brill...
Col.Morten Hanche of the RNoAF says exactly that about the F35: Hornet AOA/nose authority plus Viper thrust. The demo pilots like to show that off too and do the Raptor's tactical pitch, losing almost all energy on an instantaneous turn but instead of going nose down to recover, they just power upwards.
I have seen the F-35 demo team do just that; power into the 'Dojo Drift,' which is a wicked instantaneous turn, and then go blasting off into the vertical rather than drop the nose. The acceleration is stupendous.
its funny how all the anti f-35 propaganda had me thinking it handled like a pig- like a leerjet. it was easily the most impressive display i've ever seen - i rate the performance above the f-22 since it doesn't use thrust vectoring which almost looks like cheating :D. you'll still see people- mostly russians- claiming the f-35 can't manuever.
@@swayzefan3600 A lot of the early estimates of what an F-35 could do were from the early flying days when the fly-by-wire system was restricting the plane deliberately. This was because the test team had not cleared the full flight envelope, so the system restricted everyone but test pilots to the parts of the flight envelope that the test pilots had proven to be safe. Once testing progressed software updates removed the restrictions and the F-35 was then able to publicly show what it can do.
@@swayzefan3600 And the F-35 is not even that slow. If you plug in the numbers for an F-16 with ECM pod, T pod, some missiles, empty pylons, not even talking drop tanks, she's gonna max out at about Mach 1.6-1.7. With the F-35 someone basically took a look at what an F-16 had hanging under the wings on a typical mission and said, let's just put all that inside the airframe.
Not the same story but learned in Cessna 152, owned a 1973 Skyhawk (C172) for 7 years, got my instruments ticket in it; very stable and easy to fly. Then owned a 1956 Beech Bonanza (V-tail) for 12 years. Both the Skyhawk and Bone are great civilian planes but the older Beech was my favorite. Also very stable even in weather but more like a sports car than a station wagon and was actually more fuel efficient. Bonanza's fuel of 90 gallons (with tip tanks) provided great options for our long, cross-country traveling. Selling it was a BIG MISTAKE!
Nothing beats the viper in Looks, seat comfort & flight characteristics! I once met Russian test pilot Nikolai Kovotcher back in mid 90s when he was displaying Su27 all over European Airshows. I asked him which modern fighter at the time was his favorite for A/A missions( he had been invited to fly most western fighters back then). He told me that his first choice would be the Flanker Su27. But if he were to restricted to chose only a western fighter he would unhesitatingly choose the Viper!!! I have flown the viper for only 500 hours and to this day get goosebumps & start to drool when I see one any time anywhere!!!
@@SevenCostanza sounds cooler too lol. My grandparents had a house in Ft. Worth built in the 50’s or 60’s that had this big stone fireplace and you could hear the F16s echoing down the chimney.
It's going to depend on so many variables. Like what missions you performed in each, how often you got to fly, the people you flew with, how often they let you dogfight and how often you won lol. The main deciding factor is always going to be which one was flown first. It's almost always why when you ask early Tomcat pilots what their favorite jet to fly is they say the A-4 lol
My son would say that the F15E was better than both of these planes. Though, he would be a little biased because he is now an avionics technician for the USAF and now working on the F15E's. Great video, Mover. Long time fan here from a proud USAF papa!
I flew all three in my career (F-16, F-15, F-18). I tell people the F-16 is the most fun to fly, but the F-15E is the jet I'd prefer to take into combat.
I’m a private pilot. Got to sit in a F-16 once. It felt like I was sitting on top of the aircraft, because the cockpit edge was so low. A remarkable feeling! I can only imagine what it would feel like in the air.
I'm a civilian pilot (airline guy, never military) who loves to fly DCS. In fact, Mover is the reason I looked into DCS in the first place. When I started out in DCS I was drawn to the Viper. I always thought I'd go Hornet when I started DCS but at the moment of truth (buying that first module) I went with the Viper. The thrust to weight, bubble canopy, and side stick (like my Airbus) make for a glorious ride. I've since purchased the Hornet but I just don't enjoy it as much. It does have a better HUD presentation and the alert noises (getting spiked by radar, missile launch, etc...) are better (in my opinion) than the Viper's "annoying" sounds. But at least the Viper doesn't tell me to "ROLL RIGHT! ROLL RIGHT!" every three seconds when I'm doing low levels. The Viper is just more fun for me. And the HOTAS functionality of the Viper is incredible. One final thought (regarding landings) -- I land the Viper better than the Hornet. Sure, you can land harder in the Hornet but there is something about the Hornet's HUD symbology (specifically the E bracket and FPV) that drives me nuts during landing. It seems backwards. The Viper's Flight Path Vector and bracket respond to throttle inputs like I think they should. I know this is just a pilot "skill issue" (i.e. lack of studying the Hornet) but from a professional pilot perspective I believe the Viper is far more intuitive than the Hornet.
F-18's take off sometimes from Monterey, and it's just too cool. It happened today as I was working outside in Pacific Grove. The sound is striking, sounds so different from the other jets taking off all day. Always have to go running around to get a decent view. The Thunderbirds came through town last week and flew over the bay, also a beautiful sight
Viper was and still is my first love, never has anything better changed it since then. When I was a very young boy, I started my first virtual and military aviation interest with it. I tried to gather all the data, books, videos etc to fully learn it. Unfortunately I couldn't be a fighter pilot. My heart belongs to the Viper. Always. It has soul to me.
FiAF Hornets are considered RNAV-capable. Drop a steerpoint on the threshold, target it and put the velocity vector on the diamond for a so-called "Hornet approach." Earlier they used TILS which is basically the same 15 GHz ICLS system but land based. It was carry-over from the Draken days - for the same reason those Hornets have metric backup gauges.
I retired from runway 75 - USS Harry S Truman (cvn-75). I remember making the remark that I thought these were all weather aircraft. The response I got from the commander I worked for was that although the planes may be all weather, pilots or aviators as they like to be called, may not necessarily be all weather. Incidentally, Navy pilots like to be called aviators because aviators can land on an aircraft carrier and pilots can’t. Nice job on the video, I really enjoyed it.
The USAF museum in Dayton, Ohio has an F-16 cockpit that you can climb into. My son and I went a couple months ago and tried it on for size. First, I was surprised that I never knew it has a reclined seat which is super cool. I totally get how you feel like part of the plane while flying. The other thing is I thought I was going to be stuck in the cockpit because I couldn't get the leverage to pull myself out! 😆
This is by far the most balanced comparison between the F-16 and the F/A-18 that I've ever seen. Australia opted for the F/A-18, mostly because we wanted a twin-engined, multi-role fighter. Those aircraft served us very well, and their tough landing-gear was another advantage as it allowed them to operate from remote air-bases.
F-16 Crew Chief here. You're welcome! We always do straps and the Cru/60 hose. As a young crew chief, I took this role very seriously! And always first name, because like you said, why not? Call sign or first name always.
Long time CC here, I would only use their first name or call sign if they told me to, some insisted on rank or sir. LtC and above was always sir even if they told me to use first name or call sign. Guess I was old school like that. Most pilots were cool others "knew" the world revolved around them, total a-holes.
I used to fly Vipers. I have a crazy story of how I first started. I had never flown before and I was a passenger flying commercial out of Newark to JFK and sitting coach when the flight attendant accidentally spilt a drink on me. She said to make up for it she could either bump me to first class or let me fly the plane around for a few minutes. I chose the latter and did so good that we arrived at our destination two hours early. The Air Force and Navy both fought over me an I chose the Air Force because I thought the Navy was just a bunch of guys with boats; Didn't know they also did jets, but when I got home I found a Viper sitting in my driveway. I skimmed through the instruction manual and took it up and shot down a bunch of Migs on my first day. I'm kind of a badass. My call sign was Legend, but I always told people to call me Homegirl because I'm humble even though I have over 250 kills. Read more
@@beckydoesit9331 Not too sure but something this isn't a true story, are you related to Joe Biden by any chance? This kinda thing happened to him a few times.
Maintenance on Super Hornets with the RAAF for 8 years. I'd take the helmet bag and stow them, more for FOD control than anything, but never once even considered helping the crew into the seat. They're a grown adult, I'm sure that they can put on their own seat belt. We did however sometimes convince the new guys that they needed to destatic the crews helmets before they climbed out, seeing the look on their faces when they randomly got booped by the wand was always hilarious
Good morning sir, I'm a 32 yr retired E-7, 6ys AD AF, 26 yr VTANG! Was a 462 weapons loader on the F-4, A-10 and F-16, this vid is awesome, showed VTANG f-16 coming in for a landing! reminds me of my service days! I subbed to your UA-cam, look forward to more great vids! I also fly DCS, Waiting for my Pimax light to come in! Happy flying!!!!!!
My Guard Viper Squadron had 4 ex Navy guys that all flew the Legacy Hornet. When they all retired they were asked which they like better. They all said the Viper... I had over 2,500 hours in the Viper and got a ride in a CF-18 with an instructor in the front. He let me fly almost the whole mission. It was impressive, and the slow speed, high AOA handling was eye opening. One thing Mover didn't mention was the difference in Rudder use. In flight the viper rarely used it, while the Hornet depended on it...
I used the rudder a lot in slow speed in the Viper too... you could do a much better tuck under jink with it, but you're right. Slow speed in general was eye opening in the Hornet. The video was already too long at 30 minutes! haha
@@CWLemoine Starting out in Small Tail Blk 10s if you did that (tuck under jink) you departed... When we got the big tail Blk 15s it was much better but just hard to break old habits... The A-Model had such a light nose that we never did that anyway... Never flew the C-model, but many of my buddies that did said it was a lead nose compared to the A...
@@JimNortonsAlcoholism I was straight out of the T-37, T-38/AT-38 and was in awe of it... The guys who converted from the F-4 especially the younger guys loved it... The older guys hated change and wanted to keep flying the Phantom... I personally think they were scared by the quick "G" onset, plus didn't want to learn a new system when they were comfortable with the old one... Over time that all went away...
Civilian, and a beech skipper was my first plane that I grew to hate. Then a sundowner, then a Sierra, then children. That is why this video is so awesome! Thanks for making it.
Great video Mover! I really enjoyed your impressions of flying both machines. It was really interesting to me hearing you describe what you liked about each one and the differences between them. I couldn't believe it ended so quickly. I wished it had been an hour long.
Thanks Mover. Out of College, I volunteered for Marine air. So it was first, basic at Quantico, then off to Pensacola - that was the plan. But it didn't work out that way I was the one guy in my class to come down with the Mumps a couple weeks before graduation!! So, I spent the next 3 weeks in the Quantico Naval Hospital. My Platoon Commander, Lt. Eliazer came to see me to give me my options: I could start all over again in the next class or I could go to the FMF. Now it so happened that while in College, I had joined the local Marine Reserve. I had received training in FDC for a big 155mm cannon, earning an MOS of 0844 that I enjoyed very much and was damn good at. So, my answer to Lt. Eliazer was "FMF" (Fleet Marine Force). Out of the hospital, I received orders to Alpha Battery, 1st Battalion, 10th Marine Regiment at Camp Lejeune, NC., where I spent a very rewarding 2 years, earning the rank of E-5 on the day I was transferred back to the reserve. Years later, I received Private Pilot training, so I'm now qualified to pilot a single engine Cessna. It's a far cry from a Hornet or Viper, but I fulfilled my long-ago ambition to fly, to .......... "Put out my hand, and touch the face of God." ---- High Flight
Good morning Mover, this is so educational and even better visceral ! Thank you. In my next life I must become a fighter pilot said almost everyone who will watch this video
The new "The Blue Angels" documentary In IMAX was a treat. I've seen several films and have talked with a few Blue Angel pilots. Thought I had a good grasp of the mission. I was wrong.
I joined the army in 1980. I always wanted to be a pilot, thanks to papy boington. But I joined the infantry. At the qualifying range on day, A-10s were doing some training above us. I was looking and stated, "Man, I wish I would of went to college. The D.I that was standing next to me said why ? I said because I want to fly. He just started laughing and said , well son . You don't have to go to college, you just have to go to warrant officers school and become a warrant officer. Then fly.. to this day, I'm still kicking my self for not trying, Great channel, new sub..
Mover, I have said it before that Top Gun, the movie created 100,000 fighter pilots like yourself and Gonky (I've been an aviation nut since birth. Got my pilot's license at 24, hopefully becoming a crop duster, but that's whole another story) and I've said it before Tom Cruise is an actor playing Maverick but you, Gonky and all the other military pilots in all branches are the real Mavericks, Ice Man, Goose so Thank you for your service and thank you for your videos, channels. It makes us old armchair pilots smile I'm also hooked on the "Mover and Gonky" channel God bless
I would love to see the differences between the USAF and USN in pilot injuries in ejections, or how those 2 different seats handle keeping your legs from flailing
One of the best vids. Thx for the experience. Comment for the Viper "first love"....Heard it so many times from pilots, so it must be true. Grew up near an F-16 base. Childhood spent with F-16 flying over my city, over my house near the sea. Low alt dogfighting many times. Loved it without even flying it.
Everything I flew is now either in a museum or in a city park on a pedestal. All the same, your video made me homesick for something with a stick, rudder, and yaw string. Nice video. Cajun
The F-16 makes it harder for you to get into serious trouble. It'll keep you from stalling in MOST flying conditions. Its AOA limiter will keep you from stalling, MOST of the time. Deep stalls are possible if you assault two control limiters at the same time. The Hornet doesn't have that AOA limiter and it will let you stall the jet and fall out of the sky in conditions where an F-16 would just limit you and keep on flying. This has resulted in some fatalities including during Blue Angels aerial demonstrations in at least once incident I can remember from a few years ago.
Fantastic video - thank you Mover. It's amazing how similar your experiences are compared to what we mere mortals can simulate in VR DCS. The Viper is a sport 'go get' type of platform, high power, high Gs, easy cockpit systems, mostly look outside and use HOTAS. Hornet shines in more complex missions where there is more tactics, navigation, preplanning, Data Link, more heads down bomb truck. I started simming as a kid on C64, then on PC era of Fleet Defender, TFX, EF2000. The fact we got to the times of DCS where real life pilots share this passion with us is simply amazing.
I can see how you would call the F18 a bomb truck...however, the A through F Hornets couldn't carry much. The E and F variants can obviously carrying more(since it's a bigger and heavier Hornet) but id call the F15s a bomb truck.
How does a real fighter pilots experience compare to a video game? I'm not trying to be a jerk. It's an honest question. I've been noticing that a lot of people who play that video game talk as if they are getting actual flying experience
I served in the AF as crew chief on T-37''s in 84. Wanted to work on fighters but didn't work out. My hobby since 87 is radio control planes. Recently purchased an RC F16 1/6th scale turbine jet. Can't wait to get her flying.
Viper rider all the way... I loved the feeling of sitting on top of the world with it. I also really love the cozy cockpit and to this day I look for planes that are as cozy and comfortable. (In fact, I hate it when a plane doesn't let me lean on the side for support... it just feels unnatural.)
Because of Top Gun, from an aesthetics standpoint , I’m usually biased towards bigger, twin engine, double vertical stabilizer jets. But ever since learning about the Viper through you, Moved, I fell in love with it.
I'd love to see a video of the transition from Air Force to Navy. You've talk about several aspects of it in various videos, but don't think you have ever done one direct. I'd like to hear how you transitions just from the perspective of the branch of service - customs, lingo, uniforms, etc. What wings did you wear when transitioned to the Navy (naval aviator or AF wings), etc. Then the flying aspects as well. How did you transition jets; how were you received in the Navy unit; flying differences, etc. and it'd be interesting to hear Gonky's journey as well . . .from Navy to Air Force.
My Dad and Uncle would have loved this video. My Dad was a Navy fighter pilot from 1945 to 1967 and my Uncle was the leader of the Blue Angels (The Blues) circa 1962. Me, I was aircrew on a Navy P3C Orion:) Not many G's there.....luckily. My Uncle was also a test pilot at the end of the war and got to fly Zeros, Me262's, P51's, Spitfires and all the rest. He had the Navy Cross and shot down a Zero in a TBM Manilla Bay.
I would imagine the left vs right handed turning for air vs ground is mostly because it just feels easier for a right handed person to push left rather than pull right. There's something about the physiology that makes it feel like pulling away from centerline is more difficult and awkward than pushing back toward the body. I easily see a left handed pilot on a theoretical aircraft with a reversed control setup would feel far more comfortable with the right handed turns.
I’m a civilian rotor head - have flown air medical. Only FW experience is civilian private pilot flying single props. Have only had Viper ANG units flying around where I live and have lived. Have never seen the other fighter models very much. Enjoyed this video a lot. Thanks.
A couple of additional comments: The motor in the Viper is exceptional. The Bravo and later Tomcats had 2 of the GE F110s and it provided enough mil power thrust to stop char broiling the flight deck. I'm not a pilot, but I've had enough conversation with legacy to Rhino guys to know that they all love the upgraded avionics but hate the canted unaerodynamic wing stations. Especially with wing mounted bubbles. You burn up all your extra fuel and negate the added thrust. The legacy had the joke, 1 pilot, 1 bomb, 1 hour. The Super Hornet used canted wing stations to keep that joke alive. Great episode, Mover.
Uncle Sam will never let civvies have their retired jets. Your only option is finding one of the comblock jets that found their way over here. Last I checked, the are five MiG-29s and one SU-27 in private hands (there was another, but it disappeared). I heard that the Air Force just purchased a couple dozen more SU-27s for adversarial training, but those will probably never see civillian hands.
I’ve worked at Homestead Miami Speedway for the past 12 years, so I always get a kick out of seeing the racetrack in the background in your footage from your “Mako” days.
I was a Marine that worked on legacy FA 18 Hornets. The one difference I noticed, their are no Air force infantry on the ground. We had Marines on the ground asking for air support. That's the difference. We Marines always had jet fighters ready because our brothers needed us. Semper Fi
I'm 63 but I started working as a jet engine mechanic in the Air Force on the j79 phantom engine ge engine and a 1980 we got our first F-16 at Nellis. They pulled me from the flight line to the engine shop since they didn't have any people in the engine shop yet and it was a good time to start out at j e i m module repair such a simple engine to work on and I enjoyed it for 6 years and then they sent me to Iceland to work on the f-15s j e i m module repair and now I had twice as much work..lol Plus the fact they pulled me from the shop to go do stuff in the hangar, That started to suck.. But I only had to do it for a year and then I went back to Nellis after that. well this time I went to flight line f16 troubleshooting this time something I wasnt accustomed to.. and getting my run license for the F-16 by the way these were Pratt and Whitney not the ge engines. So I did some quick learning on how to troubleshoot on flight line, and I found myself being the only person to work the jet because everybody was leaving the military it seemed like pilots were leaving so 89 became the end of my service as well. I was at an exit class of 20 pilots and two mechanics. But the truth is is I was tired of pulling engines pushing engines troubleshooting and then they told me the last couple months before I decided to leave which determined my position was I was going to have to start troubleshooting and hydraulics systems which I never done before which I didn't sign up to do, I was a engine mechanic and I didn't want to have anything else to do with the aircraft. So right then I decided to get out Plus I had already hurt my back and Iceland after a big fall off of the wing of f-15 during a motor pull. Nothing like seeing an F-16 or an f-15 get it on.. Now I just act it out on msfs with the eagle and falcon.
I just watched performances from both the Viper and Super Hornet this past Saturday at the Hillsboro Air Show in Oregon. From a performance standpoint, the Viper ran circles around the Hornet...not even a contest in power and agility. It was impressive. Not sure about the avionics, but I'd guess the Viper is a much superior platform.
Different platforms for different jobs. While the Viper today is still a great all around jet, it was created to be the best dog fighter/rate fighter the world had ever seen. The Hornet was created to be a "cheap" jack of all trades. Both jets do their jobs well and I don't think you can say the Viper is a much superior platform to the Rhino.
Friend of mine who flew F-16 followed by the F-35 said: "There will never be another plane like the F-16". He said it before he transitioned and didn't change his mind afterwards. The F-16 is a pilot's airplane. Of course, this is purely based on how the planes flies, nothing more.
Excellent video sir!! Love how you kept the inner service rivalry simple and very professional and honest Love your video. You are a tru professional sir
When I was doing my multi-engine flight training one evening in Colorado in the pitch black when the lights on the ground and stars looked the same I said to my instructor, "I'm having vertigo". He said ok, we are on the instruments and RTB. Here is quick way to die. Go out at night, do some steep 2G turns then try to fly level on the needles. I appreciate Mover saying that even the most shit hot jet pilots are subjected to basic physiology.
I'd give anything to fly either... but if I had a choice I'd probably have chosen the f/a-18... I grew up watching top gun and dreaming of being a naval aviator when I grew up, but by the time I graduated in 2003, they were retiring the tomcat and by 2006 they were all but retired except I think one that made its very last cross country flight in 2006 to be laid to rest at its final "display" (cant recall the base but I remember reading this story years ago in a magazine) I never did get to fly due to the fact I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at 8yrs old and well, they don't take diabetics in the military- any branch, for any job- that's a 100% way to not be considered for military service which broke my heart at 17 when I visited the navy recruiter and they explained it to me in as nice a way possible, the dude could tell he was dashing my dreams that Tuesday and as I grew up I remember thinking back on how it must've looked to him, a teenage kid with the grades, fitness, and motivation and had been dreaming since a little boy of being a naval aviator, and then to have to say listen kid, we can't let you in the cockpit and have to consider if you're going to fall out with a low sugar or something in a 40million dollar machine....heck we can't even let you into basic, we just DONT ACCEPT PEOPLE WITH THESE TYPE MEDICAL CONDITIONS. Maybe I was a little naive but some of it had been me ignoring the advice and warnings of.not being eligible to join. Fast forward to now at 40yrs old and I still think about what would have been or could have been had I never been diagnosed with diabetes, it's an evil disease that steals more than just your health or being able to eat sweets every so often Thanks for the video CWL, it's a pleasure to watch and hear your stories and to be able to dream of being there. God bless and God speed!
That's a real bummer. Sorry to hear that. My daughter has type 1 also. Such a challenge. I wish that hadn't robbed you of that dream. Just know that the FAA has recently allowed people with type 1 to be able to obtain their medical certificate and can now be airline pilots. So maybe you could look into flight school now. Also, there are organizations like the Civil Air Patrol that you could join where you can be a part of something bigger than your self and learn to fly and do search and rescue types of things. The dream to fly doesn't have to die. Just a thought.
@AirMorgan. thanks for your reply, I'm sorry to hear your daughter has type 1, although nowadays the methods and options for treatment are so much more advanced than in previous decades, I remember when me and my late father (who was also type 1) got insulin pumps in about 1999-2000 and the technology was still rather new and we did good for the first several months, but then one day my dad had a severe low with a grand maul seizure and we were like well he missed his meal and took his insulin bolus by accident maybe, then he had another, and another- which was mid stride going down our steps and he went face first into the concrete at the bottom and caused a TBI as well as substantial frontal lobe damage due to the impact Finally the doctor took him off the pump and had it sent in to the company to make sure the machine wasn't malfunctioning. They checked it, cleared it safe, and then sent it back. So dad went back on it, that very week he had yet another grand maul in which he had to be injected once again with a glucagon shot because when his sugar was tested while he was still unconscious it would.not register on the monitor and read "LO" on the screen. (That model would detect levels as low as 20...so it was waaaay down there.because I've had mine at 22 and 23 and it's a dangerous thing to know you're that close to death and a glucose tablet or.drink.will determine whether or.not you live. SOOOOOO.... we sent it back in and dad went back on injections (I was still.wearing my pump which was doing good even though I had to change my "injection" site for the catheter everyday since I played football and surfed and mine would come off because of sweat.or water....they adhesives weren't as good then) BUT, this time the company sent us a letter that oh yes, the previously okayed machine was in fact, defective and had been giving my dad entire vials of insulin when it began its dosaging function because somehow the programming was telling it to go.into "prime" mode, which was how you filled the line with insulin and prepped it before putting it on and sometimes if you weren't paying attention and you left it on prime, it would dispense the entire vial, which is why you also did not wear it until it was primed and then you switched the mode to the prescribed dosing mode which then you had to do.on the machine with its few buttons and set the given dose of insulin per hour to give its user....no bluetooth,.no digital touch screen or any kind of link to a computer or phone,.just 2 buttons and the machine itself and this was barebones technology, (even though I think the two pumps cost us about $5,000 apiece if my.memory serves me correctly, so it was advanced for the time but primitive when compared to today. He had been given a couple hundred units of insulin each time within a few minutes and then of course as he didn't know this was happening, his sugar would bottom out and nearly kill him.and would have if someone wouldn't have been nearby and had the glucagon shots that we carried because a family of 2 type 1 diabetics can get dicey sometimes and on one such occasion out skiing in the ocean one day as we came into the waterway to head to our dock, my dad had one of these seizures and we didn't have a glucagon shot- luckily he had chugged a Mello Yello right before he had the seizure and the fact the sugar in it had began to be absorbed already saved his life, if he had not taken in the drink prior to the seizure we were told he probably wouldn't have lived because there was no glucose to be injected or any way of administering any food or drink since he was unconscious. All that to say, thank you again for the reply and saying what a challenge it is. Ever since dad passed away in 2013, it's been a lonely and hard road. He had a kidney transplant in 2012 and made it 1 year until had to go back onto dialysis and refused it the 2nd time and we lost him October 12, 2013. And ever since it's been tough and lonely.on a daily basis because most people, even. Parents of diabetics don't realize the time and effort and challenge it is just to manage a normal day to anyone else because of the care you have to take in maintaining your sugar for so many other body systems to work correctly...stick by your kids side. She's gona need it as she grows, I did, and still do. Much love to you both. ✌️ ❤️
@AirMorgan. p.s. the pumps were from disetronic or desitronic? But they were bought out by mini med or medtronic at some point in early 2000s But yeh the stuff has definitely improved now....good luck and best wishes!!
Great video! I fley F16A at Nellis in the 1980s. At Nellis Navy and Marine F-18s would come to fly Red Flag and we would set up side missions to go out and fight 2v2. In the F-16 we wanted to stay fast due to the AOA limiter. The F-18 guys wanted to drag the flight slow where they could still move the nose all over the place. Effing hating night air refueling over the desert. Super easy to get spacially disoriented.
@@roywilkowski2326 OK, thought it might be something more derogatory. I was a Navy P-3 aircrewman for 5yrs. Wouldn't do it in a P-8! As we used to say, Number of engines, divided by 2, less than 2, ya don't go over water!
@@pb68slab18 "Lawn dart" was a popular nickname for the early F-16s because there were lots of accidents early on, most of which were engine failures. It was used by a lot of Air Force pilots too, not just Navy fight pilots. You don't hear it that much anymore.
I'm a former crew chief with over 30 years experience on F-16's with the ANG. I'm also a private pilot and I can attest to the F-16 being easy to fly. At one time I was an engine run instructor teaching basic and emergency procedures to other crew chiefs. I used the flight simulator to teach. If we had spare time after the class we would "fly" the sim. Most guys would quickly crash. My very first time, I was able to take off and land successfully without knowing critical airspeeds, I just guessed. Takeoff was at 150 kts and mil power and landing was 150 kts, full speed brakes and I used the VASI to judge my distance. My landing wasn't pretty but I didn't crash. It was surprisingly easy and a blast to fly!
I think every jet has its pros and cons. But, like you stated, " you never forget your first love." People love to ask which one is better. I think they are both great, just different.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
FANTASTIC! The 16 was my dad’s dream fighter to fly….IF he had the chance; he was an old USAF stick…28, 33, F80, 84, 86, 100, A1E. He’s still around at 94- and watches your stuff weekly. THX Mover.
That's awesome! There's something about the Sabre that is just sexy. Watching what it could do and the way pilots that flew her talked about it...that era of air to air jet fighting is my favorite to read about.
Tell him I said Thanks for his service! And for me, the coolest era pilots to do it!! 🤙
amen, mine too. i love flying the f84 in dcs. @@OvelNick
Am I the only one that likes the F-100 ? Damn that's cool. Your dad is a legend, cheers to you guys
My father, a six victory P-38 ace would say that the P-47 was his favorite fighter. He spent 27 years in, retiring as a B-52 check airman. He did fly the T-38 in the mid-sixties for currency. He said that was his favorite jet!
I use to know many years ago. A flying tiger. I mowed his lawn. Amazing man!! I was in awe every time he was around me. This was years ago I was 10 he was in his 60’s maybe. It was a different world. They flew with experience, knowledge and courage. No electronics back then! Not like now. Not that current pilots don’t have those. It was just different. Different time. Hope that makes sense.
My dad is batman
thats nice, dear
My neighbor also P38 ace favorite plane was a Mosquito . He thought it was the best WW2 aircraft .
I had an opportunity to have dinner with Robert L. Shaw back in the 90's. (authored a book on Fighter Tactics) He flew Tomcats then after he left the Navy he went USAF in the reserves flying F15 IIRC. I asked him what it was like flying for the different branches. (Paraphrasing here) "the Air Force gave us a list of things "we could do" and we were not supposed to deviate from that. The Navy gave us a short list of things "we couldn't do", and everything else was fair game." Did you find a cultural difference in the flying between the branches?
My Navy flying was 81-87 and that is exactly the way we saw it.
If I don't remember wrong, Mover said so in an earlier video that the Air Force was a lot more planned and rigid unless you went "cross country" flying, while the navy was a more free.
Definitely a culture difference. Shaw was pretty much right. BUT…that doesn’t mean flying Navy is more “fun.” In my opinion, it actually made them more dangerous. Almost without fail, every time I flew with Navy guys, they would be violating training rules. Mostly it was being out of their block. I always anticipated it so I was never caught off guard.
@@Pilot545 “it made them more dangerous.”
GTFO.
@@vicariousjohnson9823 Tons of personal experience, brother. Don’t know you so I’m not judging on what you do or don’t know.
It's always interesting to see the other perspective. And certainly good to hear from someone who has flown both.
As a Marine Hornet pilot (almost 2000 hours). I can say the opposite of what mover said, and that is every time i was scheduled to do a 1V1 dissimilar with the USAF (whether F-16 or F-15) it was never close (well almost never).
We referred to it as "clubbing baby seals".
He is correct, if a hornet pilot makes a mistake the jet won't get him out of it. but it's is certainly easy to force one circle flow and get a quick kill using the hornet. And most Air Force guys didn't seem to know how to counter our some of our favorite one circle maneuvers.
referencing the "well almost never", i did go up against an F-15C from the FANG that kicked my butt all over the sky. no kills, but i was defensive almost all day. turns out he was a prior USN hornet guy that joined the guard.
in conclusion...
I always wanted to get a ride in a Viper 😀
thanks for the video!!!
I can't speak for which jet is better, but I work at a Naval Air Station where F18 pilots are taught to fly the F16. It's always fun to watch them get out of the cockpit after their first flight. They're grinning from ear to ear. They love that little hot rod.
@@Skymedc The -16 also flies much cleaner without it's conformal fuel tanks, or any of those things.
Did you get a chance to fly the Super Hornet? I wonder if the thrust issue has been fixed or if the jet can get you out of it if you make a mistake. I want to make a weird hybrid with F-35 engines; that would be wicked!
@@chris-C8I never got qualified in the Rhino. (some get dual qual'd if they were RAG instructors).
the issue with the Rhino (as I understand it) is the pylons are canted outward for stability. creating lots of drag. a "slick" Rhino is a beast I've been told. tho, i don't think it would outperform a slick F/A-18A+
but the Rhino's radar is exponentially superior to any legacy hornet.
Most don’t realize the Rhino will out turn a viper.
I remember in Iraq years ago flying some F-16 pilots around and they watched up suit up to fly them in our UH-60s We wore body armor with front and back plates a survival vest with our M9 pistol ,4 magazines , survival radio, etc Plus loading the M240 in the window. They asked me how much does all the shit weigh? (45 lbs or more). Then the flight helmet with NVG's and a weight bag. The they asked what all the plates on the floor were for.. ballistic plating.. they found a whole new respect for Army aviators after that! Then we dipped down to less than 50 feet and flew as fast as we could. Respect earned.
Respect is earned.
The VA in 5 years: "your spinal conditions have no correlation to your service"
Thanks for your service soldier. Greetings from Mexico City.
❤👍💙
Flying NOE is a gas, until it isn't! 😁
Great video. I flew the F-16, mostly Block 30s, for about 10 years in the AF. It was so much fun we all thought we should be paying them instead of them paying us.
One of many things I thought was different about the F-16 than any other airplane I flew was the sensation you get when you first start flying it is that you are sitting on top of the jet instead of down in it. It was a problem in the weather because you felt like you were sticking up into the clouds and looking down into the cockpit for the instruments. It was easy to get disoriented in the weather in the F-16 and that actually led to several accidents.
i fly simulators(BMS, DCS) i fly the F16AM block 20 RNLAF in BMS and the block 50 in DCS they are very similar and different. the autopilot is a great example (STRG SEL VS HDG SEL)
When I first watched the Red Flag documentary, the first thing I notice about the F-16 was that it bounced on the runway during landing.
@@captaincurd2681 Yep, they tend to tippy toe down the runway until they slow down. That is because they are well within the flying speed when they land. Can't slow down anymore or you will drag the speed brakes.
@@xy-pk8gbwhich aircraft did you fly except the f16 ?
Correct me if I'm wrong....The F16 with the GE engine (Block 30 big mouth) set up with an air to air configuration had a thrust to weight ratio of 1 to 1. Air to air Configuration is around 26,500 lbs and the GE engine has a max thrust of just over 28k lbs. The Pratt engine max thrust is just over 23k lbs. Why the air force put so many Pratt engines in the F16s is irritating. I get why though. The Air Force thought that If they used 2 different engines, that it would cause competition to keep prices down. Block 30 big mouth inlets have RAM coating on them to reduce the Radar Cross Section for the bigger inlet size.
I'm 6'2", years ago flew airshows in a 450 Stearman. Had an F-15 Pilot wanting to go up in the Stearman so bad, so after the show, we went up and had a blast, he did quite well once he remembered there were rudder pedals in the plane, Ha! "He was a natural actually" afterwards, he let me sit in the cockpit of his C model F-15 and I could not believe how tight the cockpit was. He said afterwards we could go over to the F-16 and give that one a try to see how tight it was, Holy Cow! I was 6'2" 175 pounds at the time, 32' waist, and the F-16 was clostraphobic! I don't see how guy's over 6' could sit for hours on end in the F-16. But I was extremely lucky to be allowed to even sit in the cockpit! This was in the early 90's and it was one of the Belle Chase Cajun Militia Squadron's F-15's and it surprised me that he had a rifle scope mounted on top of his instrument panel glare shield next to his HUD for drug plane intercepts, he could visually ID the aircraft through the rifle scope. I was a cheap fix and did the job! F-15 Sniper! Ha!
You know what they say, you don't sit in an F-16, you strap it on!
Great story man thanks!
now the even the F-15C's can use a targeting pod.
With taller pilots how do they manage with the prospect of an ejection and your legs/knees taking the instrument panel out with you?
oh yeah, you like strap the F16 on..
I can't believe how old the F16 frame is, and it's still kickin a$$. Gorgeous plane and is my absolute favorite.
What up, brother? Mouth here from NAS JRB New Orleans Air Guard. I didnt know you flew the Hornet as well. Man, youre the Swiss Army knife of pilots becuase you flew the Hogs as well! Lol!
After 29 years, its time for me to hang it up, brother. I loved my time and now, just awaiting medical retirement, brother.
This E1 made it to O5 and Im more than grateful.
Always good seeing your videos! As always, thank you for your service! 🫡
LOL... I was mesmerized at how much knowledge of the aircraft and flight characteristic differences you went over, while I sat and fantasized about the days I wanted to be a fighter pilot in my youth. I know a bit more about flight since then, now 62 years old working on my bucket list dream to become a pilot before I die.. I'm a handful of hours away from my private pilots' license. My Instructor, a retired Air Force B52/B1 bomber pilot said I was a natural and let me solo after 6 hours of flight training. I LOVE FLYING!!! But sir, wow just wow on the mental sharpness you have and the amount of knowledge you learned to do what you have done is most impressive! BRAVO to you and all our winged heros!!! I wished I had been able to have that opportunity... Just incredible to listen to you and read between the huge gaps in the story line.. Fantastic journey you took me on today sir! Thank you for the ride alongs...
Got my private ticket at 32 and had a national guard pilot as a stand in instructor once. He took the plane and mock strafed some beehives in a beechcraft. I never trusted a military pilot again. Reckless and full of himself.
21:23 So.... F16 - Formula 1
F18 - NASCAR
"Always turning left, like God intended"
so that makes the sr71 NHRA then right? straight line wide open throttle
@@deathsiconthe blackbird is actually pretty bad at accelerating though
@@VyarkX more of a Bonneville salt flats type top speed run, then.
that's an absolutely great analogy.
@@deathsicon Speed Check.
Your go until told no catchphrase has gotten me further than I ever should have in this process. Passed all the tests and got caught at Meps with some slight hearing issue. Got fully denied from navy and Air Force. Admiral decided he needed more applicants so he fired the navy SG and waived me in. Recruiter told me I could do anything but aviation, so I emailed the admiral directly. Admiral referred me to a new recruiter and I’m now putting in my pilots package next week.
You're a goddamn champion, son
Nice!
Its honestly the best advice Ive heard when going for the dream role. Completely mitigates self elimination.
Persistence and seeking a way until you win is both officer and pilot-worthy material. You're a fine American - do us proud.
Never give up!
😅I live in Auburn CA and we had one of the best pilots passed away on the 17th of May Brig Gen Bud Anderson. This pilot was increditeable. He was a Tripple ACE pilot in World War ll. P51 OLD
CROW He flew over a 130 different aircraft over 7500 hours. He was 102 years old.
Thank you Mover. This was a great edit for sure.
Sorry to hear about Bud He was a true treasure
That’s a shame. It sucks we’re losing the people who experienced ww2. We have a lot of young people today who try to Monday morning quarterback ww2. They take for granted the human cost of that war and take our freedoms for granted. Not trying to trash young people. We all should probably better acknowledge the sacrifices the greatest generation made for this country. True heroes.
WOW HE WAS A LEGEND PILOT!!!
There's gold in them there hills! Rip Bud. A legend. 🕊🦅
He was an absolute legend.
I am lucky enough to have a signed model of his P51 "Old Crow".🇳🇿🇺🇸
Hi Mover - Career Hornet guy. I appreciated this video. Brought back alot of memories. Can't argue with your assessment of the strengths and weaknesses. I always felt a little underthrusted with the early lot Hornets which is probably what you were flying in VFA-204 (I flew in VFA-201 out of Ft Worth for a while and we had lot 8's). The EPE engines introduced in the Lot15's helped out alot. But my memories of fighting big mouth Vipers were not that great - they seemed to press energy fights more often, better in the vertical....my only hope was to wear it down to a position fight - but even then they could crawl up into an altitude sanctuary.
One thing that I really agree with is your "first love". For me that was and always will be the A-4. I flew a thousand hours in 30 months - much of it teaching guns only ACM to training command students. I got almost too comfortable in that,(you may know what I mean) - fortunatley I survived that tour - but yeah - it was a wonderful airplane and I was never more at home in that!
I have a friend who flew for the Air Force, started in F4s, was one of the few who flew the F117s, ended his career in A10s, several others in between and when I asked him what his favorite was, without hesitation he said the F4. It was his first jet, his first love.
I think the F4 is THE most bad ass looking jet ever designed.
Yeah my dad loved the F4. He was a test pilot at McDonnell during the sixties, navy fighter during WWII. An ace flying Grumman F6F from carriers of course.
@@johnharris7353 Id like to thank him for his service.
The F-4 had so much damn power, one of the only jets of its day that could pull full vertical on take-off and hold it to altitude.
From what I've heard the F117 has the aerodynamics and handling of a brick it's not a big surprise that wasn't his favorite.
I had the distinct honor of serving as a flight surgeon for a Canadian F-18 squadron (A and B models). Spent as much time as possible in the back seat and utterly loved it. But I also managed to get approved to hop in the back seat of a Viper for a 2v2 sortie against F-15's. Last engagement was guns only (of course) and that was the only time I pulled sustained 9 G's. I did fine, but oh my, what a work out. Very hard on the body. I was blown away by the F-16's visibility (even in the back seat), responsiveness, and power to weight ratio. Amazing airplane.
The Navy "wear your helmet to the jet" makes sense when you realize that the Carrier Flight Deck is a "Protective Headgear" area. Too much shit going on within a much more confined space than an Air Force Air Base. So they want everyone used to "wear the Helmet". You are much less likely to encounter the wirling blades of death of a Helo Tail Roter or a C-2's props walking out to you F-16's parking stand. Plus on the Carrier Deck anything can become an unexpected projectile should the ship catch a rough patch of sea or a nasty cross wind. The Cockpit Ladder is a lot more threatening and dangerous when it is actually airborne and flying at your face.It's one of those "good habits avoid messy cleanups" rules.
Great answer. thanks for writing it.
Or someone turn the wrong way and send you bouncing down the deck like a piece of paper. My uncle lost a crewman on his fueling crew when an aviator turned wrong.
We had a man overboard on the Lincoln on the way back from the second gulf war. They turned an E-2C on the fight deck with the props spun up and there was a guy they didn't see on a stepladder doing some kind of maintenance on another plane. The word was that his ladder got blown away and he was actually holding onto the plane for a second until he couldn't and ended up over the side. The sars guys got him back and he was pretty shaken up but ok. I'm sure a few people lost some chunks of ass cheek over that one.
If a whirling prop or rotor hits your head, ain't no helmet gonna help!
The helmets we wore as ''deck-apes" were in case ya bumped yer noggin while working under wings and walked into a wing or the many things sticking out. They also included eye & hearing protectors.
The helmets the F-18 pilots wear are some super-expensive contraptions and 'tuned' to the wearer.
Yupp Cranial on when EVER on the flightline/Flight deck... EVEN DURING FOD EFFIN WALK DOWN! 💩LOL
I enjoy reading all these comments from the wonderful military aviation enthusiasts. I'm 6'6" and 200# and was very fortunate to have been a Naval Aviator. In the '60s-'80s there were lots of old and new fighters to fly. I had hundres of hours F-11s F-8s, F-4s, and some time in F-18s. In addition I flew A-1s and OV-10s. I tried to fly the little A-4 but it was simply impossible for a guy my size to fit into that very small cockpit.
I was a Marine and flew 337 combat missions in the Phantom in Vietnam.
All the foregoing to say, I think my muscles and bones have never recovered from the contortions and bends into which they were forced to fit the tiny confines of those cockpits.
Some of the planes were roomier than others but none was comfortable. But then the cockpits weren't intended for naps.
All in all, I'm most gratefull for the opportunity that our military gave me to fly those burning gas tanks. I am very greatful to our Country and the guys that I flew with. Also, hat's off the crews that kept the planes in perfect operation.
Interesting how many of the differences can be traced back to "We need to get this thing to take off and land on a ship in the middle of the ocean."
This. ⚓️ We wear our helmets to the jet for hearing protection on the flight deck. Much, much more is because we fly off the boat.
Most of them.
it's also why switzerland uses the F/A 18. we don't need them to take off and land on a ship. we need them to take off and land in the mountains, sometimes in hidden bases (basically flying into a sort of cave built into the mountain wall). we need short landing and takeoff, but for very different reasons than the US navy
@@OldNavyGuy If you were in the Navy its a ship friend.
My dad (passed away a year ago) was an engineer for General Electric Aerospace Engineering Systems Division. He was the senior engineer for development of the first heads up display for the Navy. The project came up because of occasional accidents due to pilots taking their eys off the window, landing on a carrier.
I think of him every time I see a video showing one.
My corvette thanks him too! My dad was McDonnell Douglas, NASA, Hughes Aircraft, Boeing. It’s amazing how many autos have HUD’s now, all thanks to your dad! Awesome!
Mover enjoyed your video. Great comparison of the two GREAT fighters of today. But LOL. All you young guys quibble over the weapons systems controls today. Try flying while switching weapons stations and the master arm switch between your legs on the instrument panel in a bombing run. All toggle or rotary switches. I Remember...If you did not trim an A-4, it would bite you! And the auto-pilot, such as it was, did not usually work. Well, I still love the Scooter and it got me on/off the boat safely for over 200 traps and over 1200 hours of flight time. A-4s Forever!
Valid!
And no HUD! Just Mark 1 Mod 0 dive bombing, WW2 style with a reflector gunsight that wasn't any more advanced than the ones found in Wildcats, Hellcats & Corsairs (I think the reticle was identical)! Amazing stuff really. Skyhawks forever indeed!
@@Nghilifa You could also use a grease pencil in a pinch...
Even more impressive doing all of that crammed into a cockpit seemingly built for a small child. The A-4's a cool machine but there is not an inch of extra space anywhere on that airplane. It's uncomfortable enough to work on, I can't imagine trying to fight a war in it.
@@thatboomhauerguy5601 You strapped in on like your flight gear!
I spent a lot of years in the marines as a f18 plane captain, cdi, turn qual, qar.....this video has shown me sooooo much cool stuff about the aspects of the f18 i never got to experience!
Thanks!
I KNEW I recognized that last Viper approach shot: Burlington IAP and the VTANG "Green Mountain Boys"; 158th FW. Nice clip!
Grew up spending lots of time there, always admired the VTANG and loved watching their F-16 ops there
Great video Mover!!! I am in agreement with you having flown many fighters. 2000 hours in the F4E, 3200 hours in the Viper (all blocks). A as handful of hours in the F-5 & F-18.
Thousands of hours airline time W/AA. Flew for over 30+ years; paid for the high G’s in the Viper with multiple spine surgeries as I got older. All good!!! Thanks for sharing‼️👍👊💪🇺🇸
That’s an awesome career!
How were you able to fly all Block variants of the F16? There's so many blocks and from what I can tell(from researching online) you might be the only one to have flown all variants.....
@@nexpro6118 Forget it, unless you have more experience than gordydexter2615.
I spent 22 years as a C-130 crew chief in the Ca Air Guard, and we had a good relationship with our aircrews. The young pilots, while being trained by the older experienced guys would remind them that the crew chief owned the airplane, we were nice enough to let the pilots use it. As crew chief, we always did everything possible to make the crew’s life easy. Seatbelts ready over the headrests, windows cleaned, if hot heat shields left in until the last minute. If cold try and heat the inside if possible.
What happens when a pilots head gets too big and gets does not show the crew chief his due respect?
@@etorres4u Ground the airplane for something, not that I would ever do that.
That completely frameless canopy on the F-16 has got to add to the thrill, not to mention to the visibility of all things forward. 🤠😎
Its actually weird to me that frameless canopies didn't completely take over after the F-16.
Very few people can speak from the experience that you have in both. So cool, thank you Sir!
My grandpa was an aeronautical engineer (director) at Wright Patt and was responsible for the development of the F16. Really amazing.
At Wright Patt? Do you mean, Pratt Whitney
Wright Patterson AFB
Interesting observation starting at 21:20
Never been in military aviation myself, but back in the day I terrorized the skies in both light planes and gliders.
Whether a left or right turn is easier to initiate is more or less dependent on the hand you’re flying with. In a plane where you’re in the left seat with the left hand on the yoke, a right roll is easier to initiate than a left. The opposite is true when you’re flying with a stick in your right hand. Either way, it’s still flying and it’s freaking awesome, regardless which hand you’re flying with.
I get a kick out of your videos; hell, you might even inspire me to start flying again.
me too 😋
If you fly with your left hand, its like someone else is doing it.
Wait.... So you're telling me there isn't a cappuccino machine in the jet?! I knew I shouldn't have believed the recruiter...
When I was with an armored battalion in Germany in the seventies, I remember how envious I was when I found out the Brits had hot water in their tanks for making tea...
Only on the patrol aircraft like the p3 or p8, Kc 135 they even make cookies.
the brits have armored mobile protected fire power teapot
@@legendary_soup4454 Holy smokes, I did not know any of that! Lucky dogs 🤣
I could swear I remember hearing that the B-52 had bunks and something of a kitchenette…however, that was a long time ago-like 30+ years-so possibly I daydreamed it.
My Late Father was Lt. Col. Robert "Cass" Cassaro had over 8,000 hours in the F-16, he was a Flight Instructor for the Arizona Air National Guard. He was also Misty 83 with the F-100 in Viet Nam. He would have really liked your video. Thanks
8k hours in the F16??? He would hold the record for most flight hours in the F16.....when I look up who has the most flight hours in the F16....your father's name isn't coming up for 8k hours...shows 6k hours for the most hours flown and its from a Lt. Col.Mike Brill...
@nexpro6118 what's your problem?
Col.Morten Hanche of the RNoAF says exactly that about the F35: Hornet AOA/nose authority plus Viper thrust. The demo pilots like to show that off too and do the Raptor's tactical pitch, losing almost all energy on an instantaneous turn but instead of going nose down to recover, they just power upwards.
I have seen the F-35 demo team do just that; power into the 'Dojo Drift,' which is a wicked instantaneous turn, and then go blasting off into the vertical rather than drop the nose. The acceleration is stupendous.
its funny how all the anti f-35 propaganda had me thinking it handled like a pig- like a leerjet. it was easily the most impressive display i've ever seen - i rate the performance above the f-22 since it doesn't use thrust vectoring which almost looks like cheating :D. you'll still see people- mostly russians- claiming the f-35 can't manuever.
@@swayzefan3600 Keep telling them that.
@@swayzefan3600 A lot of the early estimates of what an F-35 could do were from the early flying days when the fly-by-wire system was restricting the plane deliberately. This was because the test team had not cleared the full flight envelope, so the system restricted everyone but test pilots to the parts of the flight envelope that the test pilots had proven to be safe. Once testing progressed software updates removed the restrictions and the F-35 was then able to publicly show what it can do.
@@swayzefan3600 And the F-35 is not even that slow. If you plug in the numbers for an F-16 with ECM pod, T pod, some missiles, empty pylons, not even talking drop tanks, she's gonna max out at about Mach 1.6-1.7. With the F-35 someone basically took a look at what an F-16 had hanging under the wings on a typical mission and said, let's just put all that inside the airframe.
EXCELLENT commentary for us non-military fliers. Thanks for your service and your descriptions of flying both aircraft.👍🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Not the same story but learned in Cessna 152, owned a 1973 Skyhawk (C172) for 7 years, got my instruments ticket in it; very stable and easy to fly. Then owned a 1956 Beech Bonanza (V-tail) for 12 years. Both the Skyhawk and Bone are great civilian planes but the older Beech was my favorite. Also very stable even in weather but more like a sports car than a station wagon and was actually more fuel efficient. Bonanza's fuel of 90 gallons (with tip tanks) provided great options for our long, cross-country traveling. Selling it was a BIG MISTAKE!
Nothing beats the viper in Looks, seat comfort & flight characteristics! I once met Russian test pilot Nikolai Kovotcher back in mid 90s when he was displaying Su27 all over European Airshows. I asked him which modern fighter at the time was his favorite for A/A missions( he had been invited to fly most western fighters back then). He told me that his first choice would be the Flanker Su27. But if he were to restricted to chose only a western fighter he would unhesitatingly choose the Viper!!! I have flown the viper for only 500 hours and to this day get goosebumps & start to drool when I see one any time anywhere!!!
I’m partial to the F16. My grandpa retired from the Ft. Worth plant in 1999 after 33 years as an electrical engineer on the flight control system.
So what U mean is the f16 looks cooler.
@@SevenCostanza sounds cooler too lol. My grandparents had a house in Ft. Worth built in the 50’s or 60’s that had this big stone fireplace and you could hear the F16s echoing down the chimney.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Very very outstanding video. Great job. Thanks for your service. SC Navy vet. 1965. 🇺🇸😊
It's going to depend on so many variables. Like what missions you performed in each, how often you got to fly, the people you flew with, how often they let you dogfight and how often you won lol. The main deciding factor is always going to be which one was flown first. It's almost always why when you ask early Tomcat pilots what their favorite jet to fly is they say the A-4 lol
My son would say that the F15E was better than both of these planes. Though, he would be a little biased because he is now an avionics technician for the USAF and now working on the F15E's.
Great video, Mover. Long time fan here from a proud USAF papa!
Kudos to your son. I was an avionics tech on F-4s,F-15s, and F-16s during my time in(1970-1991). Dont know if it is still in use but 45272.
I flew all three in my career (F-16, F-15, F-18). I tell people the F-16 is the most fun to fly, but the F-15E is the jet I'd prefer to take into combat.
Saying 1 fighter is better than the other depends on what mission(s) you are doing.....also, depends a lot on the pilot as well
Hard to beat the F-15 in real world contested combat scenarios. Eagle is undefeated in air combat.
I’m a private pilot. Got to sit in a F-16 once. It felt like I was sitting on top of the aircraft, because the cockpit edge was so low. A remarkable feeling! I can only imagine what it would feel like in the air.
Exposed.
I'm a civilian pilot (airline guy, never military) who loves to fly DCS. In fact, Mover is the reason I looked into DCS in the first place. When I started out in DCS I was drawn to the Viper. I always thought I'd go Hornet when I started DCS but at the moment of truth (buying that first module) I went with the Viper. The thrust to weight, bubble canopy, and side stick (like my Airbus) make for a glorious ride. I've since purchased the Hornet but I just don't enjoy it as much. It does have a better HUD presentation and the alert noises (getting spiked by radar, missile launch, etc...) are better (in my opinion) than the Viper's "annoying" sounds. But at least the Viper doesn't tell me to "ROLL RIGHT! ROLL RIGHT!" every three seconds when I'm doing low levels.
The Viper is just more fun for me. And the HOTAS functionality of the Viper is incredible. One final thought (regarding landings) -- I land the Viper better than the Hornet. Sure, you can land harder in the Hornet but there is something about the Hornet's HUD symbology (specifically the E bracket and FPV) that drives me nuts during landing. It seems backwards. The Viper's Flight Path Vector and bracket respond to throttle inputs like I think they should. I know this is just a pilot "skill issue" (i.e. lack of studying the Hornet) but from a professional pilot perspective I believe the Viper is far more intuitive than the Hornet.
If you like the F-16 (or F-15), try BMS.
F-18's take off sometimes from Monterey, and it's just too cool. It happened today as I was working outside in Pacific Grove. The sound is striking, sounds so different from the other jets taking off all day. Always have to go running around to get a decent view.
The Thunderbirds came through town last week and flew over the bay, also a beautiful sight
Viper was and still is my first love, never has anything better changed it since then. When I was a very young boy, I started my first virtual and military aviation interest with it. I tried to gather all the data, books, videos etc to fully learn it. Unfortunately I couldn't be a fighter pilot. My heart belongs to the Viper. Always. It has soul to me.
Retired USAF POL guy here. Last base was Homestead ARB. Loved seeing the big FM tail in your video. Keep up the good work!!
FiAF Hornets are considered RNAV-capable. Drop a steerpoint on the threshold, target it and put the velocity vector on the diamond for a so-called "Hornet approach." Earlier they used TILS which is basically the same 15 GHz ICLS system but land based. It was carry-over from the Draken days - for the same reason those Hornets have metric backup gauges.
I retired from runway 75 - USS Harry S Truman (cvn-75). I remember making the remark that I thought these were all weather aircraft. The response I got from the commander I worked for was that although the planes may be all weather, pilots or aviators as they like to be called, may not necessarily be all weather.
Incidentally, Navy pilots like to be called aviators because aviators can land on an aircraft carrier and pilots can’t.
Nice job on the video, I really enjoyed it.
The USAF museum in Dayton, Ohio has an F-16 cockpit that you can climb into. My son and I went a couple months ago and tried it on for size. First, I was surprised that I never knew it has a reclined seat which is super cool. I totally get how you feel like part of the plane while flying. The other thing is I thought I was going to be stuck in the cockpit because I couldn't get the leverage to pull myself out! 😆
That museum is awesome!
@@kevino.7348 Yes, and it's huge! We got there when it opened in the morning and spent the entire day there.
This is by far the most balanced comparison between the F-16 and the F/A-18 that I've ever seen. Australia opted for the F/A-18, mostly because we wanted a twin-engined, multi-role fighter. Those aircraft served us very well, and their tough landing-gear was another advantage as it allowed them to operate from remote air-bases.
F-16 Crew Chief here. You're welcome! We always do straps and the Cru/60 hose. As a young crew chief, I took this role very seriously!
And always first name, because like you said, why not? Call sign or first name always.
I feel like you guys definitely have the right to do it. Your jet, my life in your hands.
Long time CC here, I would only use their first name or call sign if they told me to, some insisted on rank or sir. LtC and above was always sir even if they told me to use first name or call sign. Guess I was old school like that. Most pilots were cool others "knew" the world revolved around them, total a-holes.
I used to fly Vipers. I have a crazy story of how I first started. I had never flown before and I was a passenger flying commercial out of Newark to JFK and sitting coach when the flight attendant accidentally spilt a drink on me. She said to make up for it she could either bump me to first class or let me fly the plane around for a few minutes. I chose the latter and did so good that we arrived at our destination two hours early. The Air Force and Navy both fought over me an I chose the Air Force because I thought the Navy was just a bunch of guys with boats; Didn't know they also did jets, but when I got home I found a Viper sitting in my driveway. I skimmed through the instruction manual and took it up and shot down a bunch of Migs on my first day. I'm kind of a badass. My call sign was Legend, but I always told people to call me Homegirl because I'm humble even though I have over 250 kills.
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@@beckydoesit9331 Not too sure but something this isn't a true story, are you related to Joe Biden by any chance? This kinda thing happened to him a few times.
Maintenance on Super Hornets with the RAAF for 8 years. I'd take the helmet bag and stow them, more for FOD control than anything, but never once even considered helping the crew into the seat. They're a grown adult, I'm sure that they can put on their own seat belt.
We did however sometimes convince the new guys that they needed to destatic the crews helmets before they climbed out, seeing the look on their faces when they randomly got booped by the wand was always hilarious
Good morning sir, I'm a 32 yr retired E-7, 6ys AD AF, 26 yr VTANG! Was a 462 weapons loader on the F-4, A-10 and F-16, this vid is awesome, showed VTANG f-16 coming in for a landing! reminds me of my service days! I subbed to your UA-cam, look forward to more great vids! I also fly DCS, Waiting for my Pimax light to come in! Happy flying!!!!!!
My Guard Viper Squadron had 4 ex Navy guys that all flew the Legacy Hornet. When they all retired they were asked which they like better. They all said the Viper... I had over 2,500 hours in the Viper and got a ride in a CF-18 with an instructor in the front. He let me fly almost the whole mission. It was impressive, and the slow speed, high AOA handling was eye opening. One thing Mover didn't mention was the difference in Rudder use. In flight the viper rarely used it, while the Hornet depended on it...
I used the rudder a lot in slow speed in the Viper too... you could do a much better tuck under jink with it, but you're right. Slow speed in general was eye opening in the Hornet. The video was already too long at 30 minutes! haha
@@CWLemoine Starting out in Small Tail Blk 10s if you did that (tuck under jink) you departed... When we got the big tail Blk 15s it was much better but just hard to break old habits... The A-Model had such a light nose that we never did that anyway... Never flew the C-model, but many of my buddies that did said it was a lead nose compared to the A...
@@CWLemoine I never noticed! I was on a fantastic Journey! Thank you :)
@@JimNortonsAlcoholism I was straight out of the T-37, T-38/AT-38 and was in awe of it... The guys who converted from the F-4 especially the younger guys loved it... The older guys hated change and wanted to keep flying the Phantom... I personally think they were scared by the quick "G" onset, plus didn't want to learn a new system when they were comfortable with the old one... Over time that all went away...
How did you get to fly in a Canadian Hornet?
Civilian, and a beech skipper was my first plane that I grew to hate. Then a sundowner, then a Sierra, then children. That is why this video is so awesome! Thanks for making it.
Great video Mover! I really enjoyed your impressions of flying both machines. It was really interesting to me hearing you describe what you liked about each one and the differences between them. I couldn't believe it ended so quickly. I wished it had been an hour long.
Thanks Mover. Out of College, I volunteered for Marine air. So it was first, basic at Quantico, then off to Pensacola - that was the plan. But it didn't work out that way I was the one guy in my class to come down with the Mumps a couple weeks before graduation!! So, I spent the next 3 weeks in the Quantico Naval Hospital. My Platoon Commander, Lt. Eliazer came to see me to give me my options: I could start all over again in the next class or I could go to the FMF. Now it so happened that while in College, I had joined the local Marine Reserve. I had received training in FDC for a big 155mm cannon, earning an MOS of 0844 that I enjoyed very much and was damn good at. So, my answer to Lt. Eliazer was "FMF" (Fleet Marine Force). Out of the hospital, I received orders to Alpha Battery, 1st Battalion, 10th Marine Regiment at Camp Lejeune, NC., where I spent a very rewarding 2 years, earning the rank of E-5 on the day I was transferred back to the reserve. Years later, I received Private Pilot training, so I'm now qualified to pilot a single engine Cessna. It's a far cry from a Hornet or Viper, but I fulfilled my long-ago ambition to fly, to .......... "Put out my hand, and touch the face of God." ---- High Flight
Good morning Mover, this is so educational and even better visceral ! Thank you. In my next life I must become a fighter pilot said almost everyone who will watch this video
The new "The Blue Angels" documentary In IMAX was a treat. I've seen several films and have talked with a few Blue Angel pilots. Thought I had a good grasp of the mission. I was wrong.
I recall flying my buddies s2B.
That gave me anxiety , tight cockpit.
Can't imagine all this military gear.
Respect!!
I joined the army in 1980. I always wanted to be a pilot, thanks to papy boington. But I joined the infantry. At the qualifying range on day, A-10s were doing some training above us. I was looking and stated, "Man, I wish I would of went to college. The D.I that was standing next to me said why ? I said because I want to fly. He just started laughing and said , well son . You don't have to go to college, you just have to go to warrant officers school and become a warrant officer. Then fly.. to this day, I'm still kicking my self for not trying,
Great channel, new sub..
Go down to the local airport and talk to an instructor.
Mover, I have said it before that Top Gun, the movie created 100,000 fighter pilots like yourself and Gonky
(I've been an aviation nut since birth. Got my pilot's license at 24, hopefully becoming a crop duster, but that's whole another story)
and I've said it before Tom Cruise is an actor playing Maverick but you, Gonky and all the other military pilots in all branches are the real Mavericks, Ice Man, Goose so Thank you for your service and thank you for your videos, channels.
It makes us old armchair pilots smile
I'm also hooked on the "Mover and Gonky" channel
God bless
I would love to see the differences between the USAF and USN in pilot injuries in ejections, or how those 2 different seats handle keeping your legs from flailing
One of the best vids. Thx for the experience. Comment for the Viper "first love"....Heard it so many times from pilots, so it must be true. Grew up near an F-16 base. Childhood spent with F-16 flying over my city, over my house near the sea. Low alt dogfighting many times. Loved it without even flying it.
I think you're fortunate to have had the opportunity to fly both jets for the military.
I agree.
Everything I flew is now either in a museum or in a city park on a pedestal. All the same, your video made me homesick for something with a stick, rudder, and yaw string. Nice video. Cajun
The F-16 makes it harder for you to get into serious trouble. It'll keep you from stalling in MOST flying conditions. Its AOA limiter will keep you from stalling, MOST of the time. Deep stalls are possible if you assault two control limiters at the same time. The Hornet doesn't have that AOA limiter and it will let you stall the jet and fall out of the sky in conditions where an F-16 would just limit you and keep on flying. This has resulted in some fatalities including during Blue Angels aerial demonstrations in at least once incident I can remember from a few years ago.
He kinda mentioned all that.
Well it was good to hear it again while not being dazzled by the coolest planes ever! Ty man
Im just sitting here thinking, Oh man, what a life youve led !! Pretty crazy to even get to fly both. great vid as always
Fantastic video - thank you Mover. It's amazing how similar your experiences are compared to what we mere mortals can simulate in VR DCS. The Viper is a sport 'go get' type of platform, high power, high Gs, easy cockpit systems, mostly look outside and use HOTAS. Hornet shines in more complex missions where there is more tactics, navigation, preplanning, Data Link, more heads down bomb truck. I started simming as a kid on C64, then on PC era of Fleet Defender, TFX, EF2000. The fact we got to the times of DCS where real life pilots share this passion with us is simply amazing.
I can see how you would call the F18 a bomb truck...however, the A through F Hornets couldn't carry much. The E and F variants can obviously carrying more(since it's a bigger and heavier Hornet) but id call the F15s a bomb truck.
Love your musings b/w the two a/c…so honest and transparent!! Thank you!
Have been learning the F/A-18 in DCS for some time now, and now the F-16. Great comparison, this helps me a lot
How does a real fighter pilots experience compare to a video game? I'm not trying to be a jerk. It's an honest question. I've been noticing that a lot of people who play that video game talk as if they are getting actual flying experience
I served in the AF as crew chief on T-37''s in 84. Wanted to work on fighters but didn't work out. My hobby since 87 is radio control planes. Recently purchased an RC F16 1/6th scale turbine jet. Can't wait to get her flying.
Viper rider all the way... I loved the feeling of sitting on top of the world with it. I also really love the cozy cockpit and to this day I look for planes that are as cozy and comfortable. (In fact, I hate it when a plane doesn't let me lean on the side for support... it just feels unnatural.)
Because of Top Gun, from an aesthetics standpoint , I’m usually biased towards bigger, twin engine, double vertical stabilizer jets. But ever since learning about the Viper through you, Moved, I fell in love with it.
I'd love to see a video of the transition from Air Force to Navy. You've talk about several aspects of it in various videos, but don't think you have ever done one direct. I'd like to hear how you transitions just from the perspective of the branch of service - customs, lingo, uniforms, etc. What wings did you wear when transitioned to the Navy (naval aviator or AF wings), etc. Then the flying aspects as well. How did you transition jets; how were you received in the Navy unit; flying differences, etc. and it'd be interesting to hear Gonky's journey as well . . .from Navy to Air Force.
Just search for: "How Did I Fly Fighters In Both The Air Force and Navy?"
My Dad and Uncle would have loved this video. My Dad was a Navy fighter pilot from 1945 to 1967 and my Uncle was the leader of the Blue Angels (The Blues) circa 1962. Me, I was aircrew on a Navy P3C Orion:) Not many G's there.....luckily. My Uncle was also a test pilot at the end of the war and got to fly Zeros, Me262's, P51's, Spitfires and all the rest. He had the Navy Cross and shot down a Zero in a TBM Manilla Bay.
I would imagine the left vs right handed turning for air vs ground is mostly because it just feels easier for a right handed person to push left rather than pull right. There's something about the physiology that makes it feel like pulling away from centerline is more difficult and awkward than pushing back toward the body. I easily see a left handed pilot on a theoretical aircraft with a reversed control setup would feel far more comfortable with the right handed turns.
I’m a civilian rotor head - have flown air medical. Only FW experience is civilian private pilot flying single props. Have only had Viper ANG units flying around where I live and have lived. Have never seen the other fighter models very much. Enjoyed this video a lot. Thanks.
That’s an easy question to answer, hands down the F-16 !
A couple of additional comments: The motor in the Viper is exceptional. The Bravo and later Tomcats had 2 of the GE F110s and it provided enough mil power thrust to stop char broiling the flight deck. I'm not a pilot, but I've had enough conversation with legacy to Rhino guys to know that they all love the upgraded avionics but hate the canted unaerodynamic wing stations. Especially with wing mounted bubbles. You burn up all your extra fuel and negate the added thrust. The legacy had the joke, 1 pilot, 1 bomb, 1 hour. The Super Hornet used canted wing stations to keep that joke alive. Great episode, Mover.
Hey Mover, if I ever hit the jackpot, I'll get a Viper just for you and Hornet just for Gonkey...
Can civvies get their hands on Hornets like they can a Viper?
Uncle Sam will never let civvies have their retired jets. Your only option is finding one of the comblock jets that found their way over here. Last I checked, the are five MiG-29s and one SU-27 in private hands (there was another, but it disappeared).
I heard that the Air Force just purchased a couple dozen more SU-27s for adversarial training, but those will probably never see civillian hands.
@@FuzedBox what about that f16 for sale in Florida for something like $8 mil?
@@BlyGuy you can buy f16s, I believe they came from Iran?? but you can get them
@@BlyGuy the plot thickens, I'm a USN vet. Canada and Switzerland have hornets they might be willing to part with.
I’ve worked at Homestead Miami Speedway for the past 12 years, so I always get a kick out of seeing the racetrack in the background in your footage from your “Mako” days.
First love, B-52D and the F-4. Really got to know the Viper when I was in the Type IV PMEL at Edwards and I found my mistress.
Next video, what would win in a dogfight; B-52 or F-4?
thnx Mover... Interesting TA breakdown between the two different aircraft. The F-16 as a civilian is still just a standout classic. Much appreciated.
Thanks for sharing, Sir! Always felt that the Viper possesses all the classic "fighter virtues."
I was a Marine that worked on legacy FA 18 Hornets.
The one difference I noticed, their are no Air force infantry on the ground.
We had Marines on the ground asking for air support. That's the difference.
We Marines always had jet fighters ready because our brothers needed us.
Semper Fi
Ret. Load Toad
F-16: Loved loved loading weapons but is made for folks with tiny hands to do maintenance 😅
I'm 63 but I started working as a jet engine mechanic in the Air Force on the j79 phantom engine ge engine and a 1980 we got our first F-16 at Nellis.
They pulled me from the flight line to the engine shop since they didn't have any people in the engine shop yet and it was a good time to start out at j e i m module repair such a simple engine to work on and I enjoyed it for 6 years and then they sent me to Iceland to work on the f-15s j e i m module repair and now I had twice as much work..lol
Plus the fact they pulled me from the shop to go do stuff in the hangar, That started to suck..
But I only had to do it for a year and then I went back to Nellis after that.
well this time I went to flight line f16 troubleshooting this time something I wasnt accustomed to.. and getting my run license for the F-16 by the way these were Pratt and Whitney not the ge engines. So I did some quick learning on how to troubleshoot on flight line, and I found myself being the only person to work the jet because everybody was leaving the military it seemed like pilots were leaving so 89 became the end of my service as well. I was at an exit class of 20 pilots and two mechanics. But the truth is is I was tired of pulling engines pushing engines troubleshooting and then they told me the last couple months before I decided to leave which determined my position was I was going to have to start troubleshooting and hydraulics systems which I never done before which I didn't sign up to do, I was a engine mechanic and I didn't want to have anything else to do with the aircraft. So right then I decided to get out Plus I had already hurt my back and Iceland after a big fall off of the wing of f-15 during a motor pull.
Nothing like seeing an F-16 or an f-15 get it on..
Now I just act it out on msfs with the eagle and falcon.
I just watched performances from both the Viper and Super Hornet this past Saturday at the Hillsboro Air Show in Oregon. From a performance standpoint, the Viper ran circles around the Hornet...not even a contest in power and agility. It was impressive. Not sure about the avionics, but I'd guess the Viper is a much superior platform.
The super hornet nowadays id say generally supports a better avionics suite than the viper but that’s really hard to say, honestly. Mostly a hunch
Different platforms for different jobs. While the Viper today is still a great all around jet, it was created to be the best dog fighter/rate fighter the world had ever seen.
The Hornet was created to be a "cheap" jack of all trades. Both jets do their jobs well and I don't think you can say the Viper is a much superior platform to the Rhino.
SuperHornets are a different animal.
Thank you for your incredible dedication to fly a fighter and serve your country.
Friend of mine who flew F-16 followed by the F-35 said: "There will never be another plane like the F-16". He said it before he transitioned and didn't change his mind afterwards. The F-16 is a pilot's airplane. Of course, this is purely based on how the planes flies, nothing more.
As a fighter pilot (in DCS) I agree with everything you said and learned a lot! THANK YOU
Being disoriented in an F-16 is how my friends Father passed…
Excellent video sir!! Love how you kept the inner service rivalry simple and very professional and honest Love your video. You are a tru professional sir
THE question for the ages for us Canadians!
Best 30 minutes I ever spent on UA-cam. Thank you sir! 👏👏👏
When I was doing my multi-engine flight training one evening in Colorado in the pitch black when the lights on the ground and stars looked the same I said to my instructor, "I'm having vertigo". He said ok, we are on the instruments and RTB. Here is quick way to die. Go out at night, do some steep 2G turns then try to fly level on the needles. I appreciate Mover saying that even the most shit hot jet pilots are subjected to basic physiology.
Outstanding. A pilot's aircraft. Old school f4d fan. Wheels up and happy landings.
I'd give anything to fly either... but if I had a choice I'd probably have chosen the f/a-18... I grew up watching top gun and dreaming of being a naval aviator when I grew up, but by the time I graduated in 2003, they were retiring the tomcat and by 2006 they were all but retired except I think one that made its very last cross country flight in 2006 to be laid to rest at its final "display" (cant recall the base but I remember reading this story years ago in a magazine)
I never did get to fly due to the fact I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at 8yrs old and well, they don't take diabetics in the military- any branch, for any job- that's a 100% way to not be considered for military service which broke my heart at 17 when I visited the navy recruiter and they explained it to me in as nice a way possible, the dude could tell he was dashing my dreams that Tuesday and as I grew up I remember thinking back on how it must've looked to him, a teenage kid with the grades, fitness, and motivation and had been dreaming since a little boy of being a naval aviator, and then to have to say listen kid, we can't let you in the cockpit and have to consider if you're going to fall out with a low sugar or something in a 40million dollar machine....heck we can't even let you into basic, we just DONT ACCEPT PEOPLE WITH THESE TYPE MEDICAL CONDITIONS. Maybe I was a little naive but some of it had been me ignoring the advice and warnings of.not being eligible to join. Fast forward to now at 40yrs old and I still think about what would have been or could have been had I never been diagnosed with diabetes, it's an evil disease that steals more than just your health or being able to eat sweets every so often
Thanks for the video CWL, it's a pleasure to watch and hear your stories and to be able to dream of being there. God bless and God speed!
That's a real bummer. Sorry to hear that. My daughter has type 1 also. Such a challenge. I wish that hadn't robbed you of that dream. Just know that the FAA has recently allowed people with type 1 to be able to obtain their medical certificate and can now be airline pilots. So maybe you could look into flight school now. Also, there are organizations like the Civil Air Patrol that you could join where you can be a part of something bigger than your self and learn to fly and do search and rescue types of things. The dream to fly doesn't have to die. Just a thought.
@AirMorgan. thanks for your reply, I'm sorry to hear your daughter has type 1, although nowadays the methods and options for treatment are so much more advanced than in previous decades, I remember when me and my late father (who was also type 1) got insulin pumps in about 1999-2000 and the technology was still rather new and we did good for the first several months, but then one day my dad had a severe low with a grand maul seizure and we were like well he missed his meal and took his insulin bolus by accident maybe, then he had another, and another- which was mid stride going down our steps and he went face first into the concrete at the bottom and caused a TBI as well as substantial frontal lobe damage due to the impact
Finally the doctor took him off the pump and had it sent in to the company to make sure the machine wasn't malfunctioning. They checked it, cleared it safe, and then sent it back. So dad went back on it, that very week he had yet another grand maul in which he had to be injected once again with a glucagon shot because when his sugar was tested while he was still unconscious it would.not register on the monitor and read "LO" on the screen. (That model would detect levels as low as 20...so it was waaaay down there.because I've had mine at 22 and 23 and it's a dangerous thing to know you're that close to death and a glucose tablet or.drink.will determine whether or.not you live. SOOOOOO.... we sent it back in and dad went back on injections (I was still.wearing my pump which was doing good even though I had to change my "injection" site for the catheter everyday since I played football and surfed and mine would come off because of sweat.or water....they adhesives weren't as good then) BUT, this time the company sent us a letter that oh yes, the previously okayed machine was in fact, defective and had been giving my dad entire vials of insulin when it began its dosaging function because somehow the programming was telling it to go.into "prime" mode, which was how you filled the line with insulin and prepped it before putting it on and sometimes if you weren't paying attention and you left it on prime, it would dispense the entire vial, which is why you also did not wear it until it was primed and then you switched the mode to the prescribed dosing mode which then you had to do.on the machine with its few buttons and set the given dose of insulin per hour to give its user....no bluetooth,.no digital touch screen or any kind of link to a computer or phone,.just 2 buttons and the machine itself and this was barebones technology, (even though I think the two pumps cost us about $5,000 apiece if my.memory serves me correctly, so it was advanced for the time but primitive when compared to today. He had been given a couple hundred units of insulin each time within a few minutes and then of course as he didn't know this was happening, his sugar would bottom out and nearly kill him.and would have if someone wouldn't have been nearby and had the glucagon shots that we carried because a family of 2 type 1 diabetics can get dicey sometimes and on one such occasion out skiing in the ocean one day as we came into the waterway to head to our dock, my dad had one of these seizures and we didn't have a glucagon shot- luckily he had chugged a Mello Yello right before he had the seizure and the fact the sugar in it had began to be absorbed already saved his life, if he had not taken in the drink prior to the seizure we were told he probably wouldn't have lived because there was no glucose to be injected or any way of administering any food or drink since he was unconscious. All that to say, thank you again for the reply and saying what a challenge it is. Ever since dad passed away in 2013, it's been a lonely and hard road. He had a kidney transplant in 2012 and made it 1 year until had to go back onto dialysis and refused it the 2nd time and we lost him October 12, 2013. And ever since it's been tough and lonely.on a daily basis because most people, even. Parents of diabetics don't realize the time and effort and challenge it is just to manage a normal day to anyone else because of the care you have to take in maintaining your sugar for so many other body systems to work correctly...stick by your kids side. She's gona need it as she grows, I did, and still do. Much love to you both. ✌️ ❤️
@AirMorgan. p.s. the pumps were from disetronic or desitronic? But they were bought out by mini med or medtronic at some point in early 2000s
But yeh the stuff has definitely improved now....good luck and best wishes!!
Great video! I fley F16A at Nellis in the 1980s. At Nellis Navy and Marine F-18s would come to fly Red Flag and we would set up side missions to go out and fight 2v2. In the F-16 we wanted to stay fast due to the AOA limiter. The F-18 guys wanted to drag the flight slow where they could still move the nose all over the place. Effing hating night air refueling over the desert. Super easy to get spacially disoriented.
As a Viper pilot, it was easy to have an air of cockiness. 🤙🏼
"It's hard to be humble at 9Gs," - Sign in the 706FS Squadron Bar
I've heard Navy fighter pilots refer to the F-16 as ''the lawn dart''. Why is that?
@@pb68slab18 Single engine, no glide when it stops running. Helos can autorotate farther than aF16 can glide.
@@roywilkowski2326 OK, thought it might be something more derogatory. I was a Navy P-3 aircrewman for 5yrs. Wouldn't do it in a P-8!
As we used to say, Number of engines, divided by 2, less than 2, ya don't go over water!
@@pb68slab18 "Lawn dart" was a popular nickname for the early F-16s because there were lots of accidents early on, most of which were engine failures. It was used by a lot of Air Force pilots too, not just Navy fight pilots. You don't hear it that much anymore.
I'm a former crew chief with over 30 years experience on F-16's with the ANG. I'm also a private pilot and I can attest to the F-16 being easy to fly. At one time I was an engine run instructor teaching basic and emergency procedures to other crew chiefs. I used the flight simulator to teach. If we had spare time after the class we would "fly" the sim. Most guys would quickly crash. My very first time, I was able to take off and land successfully without knowing critical airspeeds, I just guessed. Takeoff was at 150 kts and mil power and landing was 150 kts, full speed brakes and I used the VASI to judge my distance. My landing wasn't pretty but I didn't crash. It was surprisingly easy and a blast to fly!
I think every jet has its pros and cons. But, like you stated, " you never forget your first love." People love to ask which one is better. I think they are both great, just different.