Brainwashed Mormon Mommies?
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
- I was trained to be a TradWife as my divine role from Mormon God. I was dreaming of marriage and babies when I was still a baby myself.
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A few resources I mention in the video:
*Why I left the Mormon Church: www.mormontrut...
Entirety of the Personal Progress Manual: www.churchofje...
Proclamation to the Family document: www.churchofje...
Sweet Spirit Song: • Sweet Spirit a ballad ...
More art by Hayley Labrum Morrison: www.hayley.co/...
Mormon Disney Obsession BYU Piece: universe.byu.e...
New “equality minded” Mormon youth lesson: www.churchofje...
Mormon leader speech about breaking up with a girl for having one pair of earrings: www.churchofje...
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A few videos that may interest you:
*My Mormon endowment explained video: ( • Secret Mormon Temple C... )
*Mormon garments explained video: ( • Mormon Garments Explained )
*Every rule I followed as a Mormon: ( • Every Rule I Followed ... )
*My Mormon mission was a waste: ( • Mormon Missions Explai... )
*Complete story of my Mormon wedding: ( • Mormon Temple Weddings... )
where to find me -
Patreon (ad free & bonus content): shorturl.at/8bpnw
TikTok: / alyssadgrenfell
Instagram: / alyssadgrenfell
Blog: www.mormontrut...
Email me: alyssadgrenfell@gmail.com
support my channel -
Venmo: venmo.com/u/Al...
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Currently struggling as a 16-year-old girl in the Mormon religion. I'm still figuring everything out, purity culture and overall misogyny in general has made me feel like in some ways im worthless and gross for getting as*aulted when I was 13. Still deconstructing my own brain lol. Your videos help tremendously. I wish you all the best :)
You are amazing keep learning and educating yourself ❤
It’s hard getting past the conditioning. When you’re an adult if you’re able to, try and get therapy. You can ask your therapist what theirs values are and find a different one if it’s not a good fit
Don't feel shame about that. Whoever did that should feel shame. Not you.
you’ve got this girlie, i’m rooting for you 🫶🏽
I’m so sorry you were assaulted. You did nothing wrong. The only person polluted by your assaulter’s actions was them, not you. Sending you thoughts of healing.
I was one of those Mormon stay at home moms. I put my husband through law school and always wanted to go back to school for myself, but it was never " the time" for me to go back. When I finally did go back, our marriage fell apart. But I had to stay with him to finish my degree before we could divorce. And it's been hard, starting a career in my 40s
So sorry it ended up that way, but I have a feeling you will flourish now that you are free to. For some reason, some men are afraid of their spouse becoming “smarter”’or “making more money”‘or whatever misogynistic BS they were brought up to believe. My wife and I have an inside joke that she’s my sugar mamma since when we were dating she was making more than me at the time. With her new degree, she’s got more income potential than I do depending on if she goes for her Masters.
What’s my thoughts on that? I’m thinking I need to save up for that Masters degree to help her out!
Find someone who wants to do their best to support you so you can be your best self. You deserve it.
Everyone does.
❤
Go you! Don’t stop!
Go Girl
@@estebancorral5151 ok rage bait lol
I remember my 4th grade class when we were asked by our teacher what we wanted to be when we grew up. The boys all said they wanted to be policemen, firemen, baseball players, or astronauts. These are the things they thought were exciting and heroic. The girls all said they wanted to be house wives. This is what they thought they were supposed to be. I had a different idea. I really liked seeing the garbage truck come to our neighborhood and watching the men jumping off the truck, dumping garbage cans, working the levers, and jumping back on the truck as it drove away. I said I wanted to be a garbage man. My teacher immediately said, 'No, you don't'. I shrank in my seat as all the kids laughed at me. Follow your dreams ;-)
One of my ex-bosses is married to a garbage man and he made a lot of money. He said the only con was getting up at 4 am, but his day was done by around 11ish.
I’m a teacher at the same school my son went to. When he was in 4th grade, the teacher had the kids draw a picture and describe what they want to be when they grew up. My son practically idolized his dad, who was a bartender and was in the process of buying the bar he worked at. So, he drew a picture of the bar and said he wants to work in the bar like his dad. There was nothing in the illustration or anything depicting beer other alcohol specifically. It could have been a juice bar, if you went by the illustration alone. Anyway, after school the teacher approached me and was ‘very concerned’ about the ‘inappropriate’ decision he made. I was not a big fan of my son’s dad but I was not going to disrespect his career choices and my son’s admiration for his dad. She was very disappointed in me for not agreeing to “talk” to him about changing his career aspirations, even “just’ for the assignment.
We don’t live in Utah but the school I was working at, at the time, did have a high concentration of LDS kids, especially in his class. Anyway, teachers can be so judgmental. I’m a school librarian now. Librarians are all about helping kids make their own choices.
@@tiahnarodriguez3809 Among the many things I've done in my life, I did drive a rural garbage route for 10 years. People throw away a lot of good stuff. One man's trash is another man's treasure ;-)
@@michelleb7399 My mom was a librarian. Librarians rule!
Lol when asked that question my brother always used to say he wanted to be a bank robber.
My wife is from mainland China. She recently found some trad-wife TikTok accounts and was fascinated by them. I was raised Mormon so when I saw her watching some of these I told her that they are almost certainly Mormon. We looked it up and I was correct. She kept watching them, just interested in the lifestyle, and told me that the woman almost looked brainwashed, to which I told her that they kind of are. Great to see you make a video on the subject!
Wow, when a mainland Chinese thinks Mormons are brainwashed!!!!
In Sweden everyone has lessons in sewing, woodworking, cooking and some home economics in school. I think that those lessons are important because everyone should know how to cook
In Germany it's mentioned but the classist discrimination makes it a lot less gendered than status based how much those are deepened.
I totally agree about those things that's life's lessons Although I don't agree with a 12 year old girl wondering who she will marry and how many kids she will have and their names etc etc etc.
It’s great that kids get to learn useful life skills. I’m glad I learned to cook my own meals (not in school really) and fix a leaky faucet(also not in school.) I think we should include these practical life skills in our public education here, but without gender segregation. I was not allowed to do shop in school in 1974 because of being a girl. Instead I had to do cooking and sewing which my mom had already taught me.
@@Sheywh12 having this kind of conversation with little girls is so predatory
we used to have that in the us, my parents generation had home economics classes, but after reagan, the “extra” classes like home economics and arts and music :/
Never Mormon, 60 year old female here. I was a stay-at-home for 8 years, not Tradwife but I have a warning for women doing or considering either. I understand that not all men are like my ex and no relationship is truly typical. When you decide to be a none-working woman, you are surrendering all of your potential to leave an unhappy, unfaithful or abusive relationship. Do not do that! I’m not saying that you need a high powered, high income job; but, you need to do something to develop and maintain a source of income - if for no other reason, your husband may die and leave you with no income, no job and not a lot of hope. Don’t do it! Protect yourself and your children!
Wise advice @CaraFay!
You have to have some sort of work experience to get a job should your husband not be there for you for whatever reason
Have a skill and earn and keep your own money. I would suggest you may have to keep that money or at least the balance a secret. Have your own money, can't say that enough.
As someone who grew up with modern thinking parents( my mom is definitely pro female empowerment, and my dad was totally on board with intelligent interesting women living their lives of their own definition, he had to be, he was my " girl dad".) They would have been horrified if someone taught his little girl that she was to live a life defined by any man, even him, or just any other person. Why would someone who loves you, who you love, limit you in ANY way! ?! That being said, of course people should live the life they want, but NOT BASED ON BRAINWASHING from a very young age. That is NOT a choice! They haven't been at all exposed to any alternatives. Anyone who believes this is either lying or playing dumb. Personally I don't think these people are stupid, just misinformed. Faith does not mean blindly accepting what you are told❤
The more money, the better!
You never know what could happen.
I think the problem too that being a stay at home parent is how we see that role as non-working. In reality, being a stay at home parent is labor 24/7. You don’t get pto and sick leave. (And as you said, you don’t get paid) If there’s a time you’re not doing your “job”, you’re seen as being a horrible parent
I was condemned by other Mormon women who were stay at home moms. I continued with my nursing career. We were converts to the church. (It was always my back up plan.) I worked and he also worked. He never asked me to stop working. I never would have either.
Unfortunately, my husband died at 56! We had two young daughters. Thank goodness I still had my nursing degree to provide for myself and my children. I left the church afterwards. My daughters hated being Mormon even though it was all they knew.
We are ALL EX MORMONS now.
Don’t be naive, ladies!!!!!!
@@WatchingwaitingG2D 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@stacy6994, 11 and 15
@@WatchingwaitingG2D look at ypu loving thee neighbour
i’m so sorry about your husband. you are an amazing role model to your girls!
Thanks for sharing your story!+
This is the reason why mlms (which are predatory) run rampant in mormonism. "Make money while being a stay at home mom" "part time work for full time pay" and all that garbage
What?
@@Printer-RouxGarridan-Guhyamulti level marketing (MLM) schemes. Same thing as pyramid schemes. Not to be confused with men-loving-men (MLM), who definitely are not rampant in the Mormon community. It is sad that they have the same acronym
**A reason, there’s also the similarities between belief that pyramid schemes can succeed and recruiting everyone to Mormonism, the suggestibility, ect.
i came down to ask what in the mlm was happening!
@@sonofaspyder3000thank you so much!
I was a Boy Scout as a youth (albeit a Catholic one) and I have one vivid memory from one national scout convention
At one point I was sitting in an open area, sewing a patch on my uniform.
A boy approached me and asked me what I was doing. I said that I was sewing a patch on and then followed up by asking him if he knew how to sew.
He replied, “No, my future wife will take care of that.”
I made a snarky reply of “not with that attitude” or something.
But after watching this I wonder if that boy was a Mormon. I know they were still active in the BSA back then (this was 2012)
I quit Brownies in 1981 just because it was so girly. I was an outdoorsy nature kind of kid, but we made barrettes, learned to hand sew and fold clothes, etc. Meanwhile my brother got to go camping and do the derby race.
@@titandarknight2698 💯 you are right. Also anyone who brags they “dress in the latest fashion” are cheugy.
@@mimimaitri1I was a Girl Scout for a long time, and it really seemed like there was a wide variety from troop to troop. My troop did actually go camping and hiking (although I started a little older), but that's probably because the leaders wanted to.
I worked at a national Boy Scout camp one summer, and I remember one all-girl crew who came through. They were registered as both Girl Scouts and Venture Scouts (the co-ed high adventure group under the Boy Scout umbrella) so that they had access to both resources. They were teens.
@mimimaitri1 I quit in 2009/2010 maybe for the same reason! I joined because I heard the boyscouts got pocket knives and went camping, and desperately wanted both of those things for my little self. I begged my mom to sign me up for boyscouts, and she said it wasn't possible, but I could do girl scouts instead. I HATED it. I begged my mom to make a petition to get me into the boyscouts (I was 9, I don't know where I picked up the idea of petitions granting me access to some kind of council that could wave me in, but I really wanted to go camping). Instead, I quit the scouts and got a pocket knife for my next birthday.
@@mimimaitri1omg I quit the Girl Scouts because it was boring af and the girls were super mean 😭
Do you understand that by posting these videos you are creating an invaluable resource for historical and teleological purposes? Presenting a genuine understanding from a practical point of view of how the Mormon church works, what it's for, what it does on a very fundamental level?
In addition to the fact that you're warning people about a dangerous scam, of course. Thank you so much for this channel. This is a great and valuable thing
I was a good little Mormon girl in the 60s. My mom, who had been a convert, divorced my dad and had full custody of my brother and me. Her lawyer, who was a bishop, asked her if she wanted visitation codified in the decree. She said no and we went to my dad’s every weekend. This ended for me when she found out that my dad had me do the dishes, including his dirty dishes for the week, while he and my brother went into the other room to play chess. One of the times I remember her being really angry was when my brother said that he shouldn’t have to do anything inside the house as that was “women’s work”.
That would’ve made ME angry!
Right then and there I would have made ur brother do all "the womens work" Im glad you were saved from that situation, i hope your doing well
@@Thyybunnyvictimizing young kids is not a solution for either gender. But goodness, why don’t men stand up for women. Why are they so mean and useless
When I left mormonism I changed my aesthetic visually as far as possible from their standards. But to this day I am the only one of my friend who knows how to sew, crochet,make preserves, bread or know how to make a full thanksgiving etc... I don’t know how to explain to my friends WHY I know these things as barely an adult. How do I tell a bunch of cool alternative people “yeah it’s my trad wife training”
Non-trad people do this stuff as well, but we don’t really bring it up cuz it’s not everyday life for us, so I can understand the reason behind why you having these skills has you feeling some type of way. Just keep in mind that you don’t need to explain anything you don’t want to.
I don't think this are that unusual skills. I'm a male atheist and I know very basic sewing (a usefull skill when travelling and something breaks outside of civilisation), how to make bread.
I actually learned how to crochet in school, which was one of the better subjects. Otherwise, public school in Germany is horrible. However, I never needed it.
Making preserves is important if you have your own garden. Otherwise, not needed anymore, you can buy emergency rations with a 20 year shelf life.
I don't think you need to think THAT much about it. Just explain your familly was into traditionnal gender role, and teach you all of that. Having all those skills is not something to be ashamed of, however you learn them
Just tell the truth that you grew up in religious home that required you to learn these skills…
BTW I can do all the things and I grew up in a home with two parents that both worked full time jobs. They are great skills to know
these are great skills :)
Alyssa you are changing my life. Im 18 and leaving the church and my family because of it. It’s been incredibly painful and hard but your videos have sincerely helped me so much! Keep it up and THANK YOU
Stay strong
@@Joefest99"great moral structure" lmao, no. Great for when they interact with other men even outsiders, not with women within their own groups
I quit going to church about ten years after reading Meditation for Dummies. I learned about mantra meditation from this book and practicing mantra meditation (the church lies about what meditation is) benefited me 10x more than going to church. Also, learned to feel feelings such as fear, anger, jealousy, and pride until they go away from reading the book Meditation for Dummies. The church taught me to suppress these feelings implying they were evil. No one goes around saying Christ is so compassionate, Christ can't feel His feelings, yet I was taught to not feel certain feelings and/or suppress feelings by the church.
@@Joefest99thank you but i won’t lose my integrity, but integrity is something too many people in the church no nothing about.
@@michelep.7249 i get that!
im an ex-muslim and the licked cupcake thing reminds me of the wrapped candy of the muslims, which describes a woman with a hijab as this wrapped candy while a woman without a hijab is the unwrapped candy and the unwrapped candy attracts ants, which is then deemed dirty and unworthy...
from one ex-cult member to another, it's truly awful to be seen as this material that's either "good and clean" or "damaged" just because of our gender, misogyny runs deep in a lot of religions
And they are surprised that religious women become misandrist when they literally call men insects.
The other interesting aspect of gender and religion is that women are more likely to participate in religion than men (results vary across countries and faiths). So women have been socialised to reinforce these beliefs and instill them in their children. Internalised misogyny at its finest.
This. It concerns me that people are criticized for “disrespecting” religion, or bigotry, when bringing up real worries about active ways a church, any church, is hurting women right now. We need to be able to talk about it. Women are being hurt, currently. These religions operate as a framework to encourage it. Religious men are certainly not working in any strenuous or real way to help. We need to be able to talk about this harm without being shut down, because it’s happening to real people.
My first shelf item was that I didn't want to be a mom. I have no interest in children and pregnancy scares me. Leaders made me feel like something was wrong with me and that I would have a change of heart when I got married. My husband doesn't want kids either and we've been enjoying our married life saving and pursuing our own goals and interest both as a career and hobby. It feels like the most equal marriage I've seen from most people who do have kids. We always are 50/50 in cleaning, cooking, budgeting, etc. We've been so much happier after leaving and finding our own path. Thank you Alyssa for always doing incredible deep dives on these topics!!! ❤
I would love to see the men’s version. My ex was Mormon and I would go to temple with him sometimes to be supportive. I never understood why I was supposed to tell him about my meeting but when I asked him what the men were talking about, I wasn’t allowed to know. It immediately sent red flags through me. Like, what are you talking about that is so secretive that you can’t tell your wives? Just felt shady and sexist. I spent 1 hr a week being berated into being a mother and you’re over here….doing……?
Edit: he WASNT learning how to budget a household. How to fix the AC. How to cut grass properly or change the oil. He wasn’t trained how to be faithful. He wasn’t trained to be kind or helpful around the house. He didn’t even buy me flowers when I graduated college. As far as I can tell, they just talk about how to take over the government and cheat on their wives.
Someone spilled tea that the men are basically taught to not support women’s rights, talk about political affairs, and do fun stuff while the women are taught how to be wives and submit to their husbands.
I mean… the boys are being taught survival and providing for the family and supportive of a community via Boy Scouts.
Also, they are being taught how to properly wield the Priesthood.
After they serve a two-year Mission, they will have been trained to be a perfect husband and father.
Most likely, they already had cutting grass as a childhood chore.
I mean… the boys are being taught survival and providing for the family and supportive of a community via Boy Scouts.
Also, they are being taught how to properly wield the Priesthood.
After they serve a two-year Mission, they will have been trained to be a perfect husband and father.
Most likely, they already had cutting grass as a childhood chore.
Budgeting for the household is the woman’s role. The man’s role is to make the money (after they finish college).
Wow, so interesting. Thanks for the insight.
We must work diligently to keep these bad people these misogynistic evil pedo men OUT OF OUR GOVERNMENT
I was raised LDS. Being told my purpose in life was to be a mother but knowing at a young age that wasn't what I wanted... That fucked me up. I felt like I didn't have a purpose and like I was failing at life for a long time.
I see you and hope you have since found a life purpose. ❤❤
I think this video helped me see how much they taught that concept. I also didn’t want kids from a very young age and it caused a lot of conflict for me going through personal progress. It also helped me see how the doctrine sets up the Mormon marriage to be transactional. He gives money I give kids. And I think the only reason my marriage has survived my exit is because we had to change that dynamic from the start.
I also never wanted kids ever since I was little. I actually got several disciplines in Catholic School for questioning what if I didn't WANT kids, what else could I do?
I fought for years but last year at 28 I got my tubes removed to prevent any accidents. Never been happier!
Same here ❤From YWs lessons to my patriarchal blessing it was clear that mormonism/god didn't care about my mental health, my needs and achievements, or me as an individual instead of a drone destined for SAHMotherhood. This isn't a knock on being a SAHM/SAHP! I think it's a deeply rewarding life path (that should be recognized positively and supported institutionally with protections for the SAHP) but everyone deserves a choice, not a life sentence to a path they know is damaging for them. I hope you're doing better and able to pursue what you want in life.
I didn’t grew up mormon, but my mother’s family was mostly. So, I saw it up close. I remember telling a cousin when we were little that I didn’t want children and her telling me I would be wasting my life. 45 years old, no children, and happier than most!
wdym? if you actually were raised lds you would know your purpose is to bring others unto christ not being a mother being a mother is your responsibility and duty when you have kids don’t mix and change stuff to find excuses to leave the church i don’t know who you are but the churches teachings were always simple and it’s never supposed to lead anyone astray unless you are trying to justify sinful actions
Indoctrinating little girls from the earliest ages to be, essentially, brood mates is such a frightening practice. Not only is it demeaning but also quite creepy.
Weren't the british ejected from the United States for acts of tyranny?
Exactly the same feeling every time I hear Alyssa speak of her childhood. It’s evil to say the least. The worst part is, these parents think they are somehow raising their daughters in the best way.
It's what happens when you allow a group of men with undisclosed kinks and delusions of grandeur have absolute power in a community. It's why doubt is the cure for faith, and why it is so heavily attacked as the enemy. When you start to go "huh" is when their smile fades away.
@@warlordofbritannia It’s also bad for the boys to be raised in this culture. They too are forced to fit an extreme gender role that may not feel authentic. They are entitled and misogynistic because they were trained to be that way. It’s harmful to everyone.
Yeah it’s literally grooming. I feel so bad for the women who weren’t able to escape.
53:01 your comment about room and board, when i was divorcing my ex, he specifically said (after he cut me off financially), "you have a roof, you have a fridge that i stock with food..." the things he said to me during our divorce showed how he very clearly thought of me as a live-in nanny. And now that we were "done", I need to get a job and leave. He didnt think i should be entitled to half the house, etc, no child support, etc. I'd been a sahm for 10 yrs, moved across the country for him, put him through med school... these men absolutely believe theyre doing us a favor to be a sahm. I will warn any younger girls looking to get married to get a pre-nup that ensures in the case of divorce, if they've been a sahm, to include an agreement that they be gicen support until they are able to train for a career. Alimony is not much of a thing anymore, so women need to have a backup plan.
You chose to leave your marriage, the only thing you’re entitled to is child support
@@schipfan360
Someone has to leave the home and the marriage to start the divorce process. She deserves to be helped to make the transition. She didn’t get paid when she ran that household so she needs to be paid now.
If I ever meet someone who wants to become a stay at home mom I'd encourage her while I myself stay single forever and laugh about her
@@ManiyaVinasyou must be a sad person to laugh at the misery of others
33:45 Agreed. When we push the statement that feminism is all about *women support women* absolute and at all cost, we missed the nuance that women could have an opinion that's harmful to other women, and even to themselves.
Mormon women are supposed to look the same, think the same, act the same. We are supposed to be interchangeable. Meet everyone’s needs while having none of our own. Stay beautiful forever. Never complain or express unhappiness. If you’re unhappy or depressed, you are being selfish so keep in to yourself.
Oooooh, this is why it's then easy to marry more than one and get with anyone... Got it.
Mormon men must have some serious twin- triplet- etc fetishes
So, Stepford Wives?
That’s rude
@@underverse8170You appear unable to face this TRUTH.
@@judithnelson1581 what? If I’m unhappy or depressed I’m being selfish all the sudden??? How the hell am I being selfish.
I want to add another distinction with stay at home moms versus a tradwife. A tradwife stays home because they believe that women should not be working and only women specifically the mom should be caring for a child.
Stay at home mom could be staying home for so many different reasons. Sometimes it’s because daycare cost is greater than what the mom can make, which is typically as a result of pay inequity for a woman and man with the same education level. Sometimes it’s a choice because they want to be the person with their kid all the time. For me it’s because my kid has multiple disabilities and daycares illegally would not care for her. On top of that she has frequent appointments that are 45-90 min away and I couldn’t get off enough time to take her to appointments. My kids access to care was not the same when I worked (and I worked in management at a caregiving facility where everyone understood the appt frequency but gave no lenience for your home life).
My friends son had cancer for 6yrs (he passed in 2022 at 13) and his dad was lucky enough to have a job where he could work 90% from home, or Ronald McDonald House, or the hospital but most families can’t do that so one parent ends up having to stay home.
These are both examples of how societal ableism can result in a stay at home mom being a necessity as well.
My sister had a very similar situation when my nephew was younger
For us it was a bit of cost and a lot of my wife just realizing she didn’t want a daycare raising our kids. The decision to support her 100% on that took all of a second for me. Best thing I’ve ever done was be sure and support her in that journey, as well as stepping back on my career a tad to work from home. Would I be maybe a bit more senior in management if I had chased it? Sure. Do I have memories of attending every school activity with my kids? Absolutely.
Would I change a damn thing? Absolutely not.
A poor brainwashed woman and a homemaker by choice are definitely not the same thing.
THIS is the main difference for me, and why I am not ok with Tradwife, but perfectly ok with Stay At Home Wife (even if I would never made that choice personnaly).
Tradwife are proclaiming that being a homemaker is the only/superior way to be a good wife, and that any other repartition of domestic tasks means you are a failing mother and wife.
While SAHM just make the best decisions for their couple
You bring up a great point of a lot of workplaces not giving a lot of flexibility to combine family duties and work, for either parent. I do think things are slowly changing and it also depends on the workplace, but too few employers are open to being flexible. My mother-in-law lives with us due to care needs and my own employer is pretty good about being flexible if I need to go to appointments with her or something happens last minute at home, but my partner’s employer for example will have a fit if he leave even 5 minutes early.
The lie that men and women with the same education level are paid differently is nothing but propaganda. If that were true all companies would hire nothing but women to save on salary cost.
Both my brothers were stay-at-home parents. For most people it depends on which parent has the job with insurance. I was a SAHM because I have special needs kids. But I despise forced gender roles. For me it was about what was best for our kids. I considered myself a Japanese-style “professional housewife”-I see it as a profession.
As for Ballerina Farm, her husband is a billionaire heir. So he’s no Trad Husband either.
There was a tv add once in Germany for an upscale vaccum cleaner where a sahm said, when at a party talk came about her profession, "I'm running a successful small family business" and that stayed in my brain. You might not get paid in money, but it's a demanding job!
In our family, my husband has always been the stay-at-home parent - mostly because I scored the higher-earning career and he was able to handle childcare in the daytime, then work part time some nights and weekends (he stopped some years ago partly due to covid forcing a stop in his work plus burnout and physical health issues). If it had been him who got higher pay, I'd likely have been the stay-at-home parent and taken it quite seriously! It's a challenging job, and if you think it's a breeze, you're probably not putting in the effort it requires.
As a side note, it's been encouraging seeing more dads at school dropoff in the past couple years! I know it's not an indictator of them staying home, but, when my oldest was in elementary school 6-7 or so years back, you hardly saw any dads there - just my husband. Now my youngest is in that same age range, and you see at least 2 other dads if not more at morning dropoff besides .y husband. It's not an enormous number, but lots more than a handful of years ago!
1:23:25
I worked on staff at a Boy Scout camp in Northern California for a few summers when I was in college (my family was very involved in the Scouts). Lots of the staff were LDS and we had two "Mormon weeks" of all-LDS troops. Things were mostly the same except they all arrived very early Monday morning (instead of Sunday afternoon), we could specifically mention Jesus during the dinner blessing, and we all knew a lot of the adult volunteers were basically there because they had to be.
Boy Scouts itself has changed. Cub Scouts is now co-ed and they've been more inclusive of LGBTQ adults and kids. And even though "a scout is reverent," it's not explicitly a Christian organization.
@@meganrogers3571 It is in Florida. They don't allow atheist children.
I was a stay-at-home mom for a little while when my ex-husband was in the military. We had three small children and it was cheaper for me to stay home than for us to pay for three kids to go to daycare. It was kinda fun cooking things from scratch and all that, but we were on one income and that meant there was not a lot of other things that could be done. We definitely did not have all the glamorous things you see on social media.
When it was clear that this marriage really wasn't going to work (I had left him before) and I had I finally gotten over the fear of being a single mom of three, I still delayed for a bit because I knew that I needed to go back and finish college (I had gotten married at 19) if I wanted any hope of being able to take care of myself and the kids.
However, things came to a head and for my safety and that of the kids, I had to leave him even though I wasn't finished school. The thing was that I should've left him sooner. All the fears that I had of being alone, the thoughts of feeling like a failure and all the big and little thoughts that had kept me trapped in that relationship for 12 years, they were all wrong. Things were hard sure, but they weren't devastating. I didn't have to get three jobs, men were still interested in me even though I had kids, my life wasn't over and instead I went on to get three college degrees. My kids are now adults and even though I have not remarried, at 45 I would say that I am currently living my best life in another country and the future is bright!
Ohhhh this is my life goal. 42 and looking for my expat country. Where did you end up?
@@keashablew7728 Costa Rica for now.
I remember the cupcake lesson. I remember a girl who was always more skeptical about the church actually said she'd happily take the licked cupcake! The leaders were so shocked and flustered. Iconic to this day.
I also remember the first time I mentioned the used car metaphor to my guy friends. The idea is that you are gonna take way better care of a new shiny car that's in perfect condition compared to a used car that's already scuffed up. I heard that one more than anything else. My were appalled that anyone would teach that.
The car analogy reminded me of one a local public figure used in relation to r.pe and to a point, theft. Like, if you leave your car unlocked, and the keys in the ignition, you can't be surprised you don't have a car anymore. And he was directly and explicitely making the point that the unlocked car was refering to women wearing skimpy outfits or "asking for it". What is it with comparing women to objects, i really really wonder
Nevermormon here, 31 year old gay englishman and atheist, i am obsessed! Mormonism is such a fascinating intersection of Christianity and modern hetreonormativity. A whole religion made by a colonial Andrew Tate ll😅
Yes! That infamous Family Proclamation not only codifies heteronormativity but also gender essentialism in a way that I haven't seen other religions do on such an "official" level
Also English, Queer and never-mormon. I was dragged up Anglican, but I'm agnostic-athiest now. Mormonism is fascinating, isn't it? I had a couple of Mormon then ex-mormon friends in my teens, twenties and thirties. The things they told me were unbelievable, like the way mental illness and non-hetero people were treated. And yet, as we see from ex-mormon UA-camrs, that's just the start. The enforcement of heteronormativity is disturbing. So narrow minded. Its almost as if they're terrified of difference because they're insecure. If people are secure in their beliefs and sense of self, they don't need to impose on others.
I find the veneration of Joseph Smith fascinating - since, to anyone outside of the Mormon church looking in, it's perfectly obvious that he was a scam artist and a fraud. I guess today we have Donald Trump - the more things change, the more they stay the same. Find a con artist - and you'll find his marks...
I am form Germany, it's fascinating how seriously any local group can take religious attitudes
It's pretty fascinating how their religion excels. If there is ever a nuclear apocalypse, you can bet the Mormons will still be around proliferating and building.
My biggest problem with women who define themselves so strongly as Tradwives is the way that they will degrade other women for not being tradwives while simultaneously complaining about other people's dislike of the tradwife lifestyle.
Edit: i don't think i communicated this properly but essentially the hypocrisy of tradwives insinuating or straight up saying that theyre better than "ungodly" or "nonsubmissive" women while complaining that those same women are judgmental of tradwives. If YOU wanna be a tradwife, fine. But don't expect other women to respect you if you hate on them for not being womanly or wifely enough 🙄
Where in what example have you found trade wives degrading other woman.....it's usually the other way around...
@@Niko132 Girl Defined, the Duggar mom, transformed wife etc.
@@Niko132 Pretty much all of them.
@@KenS1267 There isn't a single negative comment made by those woman on single promiscuous feminists. Where does she single out these woman as Jezebel's or garden tools. They make comments about how masterbation and hedonism acts are sinful, however they don't degrade people.
@@KenS1267 These woman don't degrade promiscuous feminists. They promote monogamy, there isn't a single video on their pages that passes judgement on a single life of sleeping around. Maybe you just feel guilty about your life choices when looking at woman who protect their value....
Why aren't young men taught how to be good husbands and fathers? As though teaching these things wouldn't benefit marriages as well? Why teach only one half of the equation?
I think they are, or use to be with scouting, shooting guns, camping out, playing basketball, we use repeat in scouts that we'd do our duty, respect the law and be morally straight. No gay mormons.
They ARE “good”, according to some.
Good how, to who, and for what? Well… those are completely different questions.
@@awesomesurfer6358but what about the direct duties toward your children and spouse ? Camping and shooting are pretty useless as a day to day thing
Because women are the ones who need to mold to men's needs. Who wrote the rules? Men.. 😂
Because men are given patriarchal power and privilege. 💸💵💵💵💵💸. 💵💵💵
💸💸
Never a Mormon, pushing 60 with a lifetime of experience. You are so, so right about the necessity to be ABLE to care for yourself/your family. Both my grandmothers wound up being single mothers in the 1930's/1940's at a time when it was much harder for a woman to make a living wage. I was raised that it was fine if I grew up to marry a man and be a stay at home wife BUT I needed to be ready to take care of myself and any kids in case "something happened" to my husband. You touched on divorce, you touched on death, but there is also the matter of illness and disability. My late husband was unable to work the last decade of his life and I was our sole support. Another thing - both husband and wife being fully informed of all financial matters for the household. When my husband died having our mutual affairs in order, knowing where everything was, knowing the account numbers and passwords, made dealing with all that much easier during an already nightmarish time. It also makes it easier to deal with the scammers that inevitably show up claiming the deceased owed them money. No, he didn't. What it comes down to is that being a tradwife should be a genuine *choice*, not what a woman is forced to be because she's been taught nothing else.
This is a very important comment.
I never heard about scammers claiming that a deceased person owed them money, that's a new one for me. 😮
How awful of them!
@@saschamayer4050 Oh, they've been around forever. First encountered the breed after my grandmother passed away in the early 1980's. They don't hit everyone, but they are out there.
Growing up in the 1950’s, girls didn’t need to be LDS to know they were expected to be a wife and mother. Or if they did work, they could only be a secretary, teacher, or store clerk. I always wanted to be a Naval officer. People would say that was not appropriate, because it meant I was either after a man or after another woman. I stuck to my dream, and was able to secure a commission and serve 7 years, attaining the rank of Lieutenant. I also married a Marine! I later became a probation officer and then changed course into IT. Never wanted children, so we never had any. Don’t let anyone stomp on your dreams!
congratulations! thank you for your service.
I did not grow up Mormon but I did grow up in an extremely religious environment so I have collected so many purity metaphors it’s almost like a party trick. Some of the most memorable are the open mint passed around the room that no one will eat now, trying to put toothpaste back in the tube after squeezing it out, duct tape that’s no longer sticky, the chewed up gum in the video, putting petals back on a flower after plucking them off, the water bottle with pin holes that can’t be filled up anymore, and I’m sure many others if I think about it long enough. The licked cupcake was a new one for me though 😂
Wow.
crazy how they’re so insecure about women having sex for their enjoyment only. wow.
You know there was that ONE KID who ate the cupcake. I love that one kid.
Could they emphasize we are only objects to be used any more clearly? The duct tape is just insane.
@@mimimaitri1It's illuminati controlled and slavery, dressed up as 'purity'. False religion.
Man that mental image
Girl: “you have to eat ALL the spaghetti!”
Boy: *crying* “why are you doing this to me?”
Dear god. The Mormons have found out my very specific fantasy.
Yeah it's basically already treating boys to view all girls/women as their mommies.
@@warlordofbritannia O_O
@@alyssadgrenfell Ugh, that sounds really creepy 🤮🤮🤮🤮
It’s so interesting how you talked about Mormon girls and Disney. When I was in college my roommates and I watched Disney movies. (But it was definitely not all we watched) And as four queer girls we definitely had a different relationship to the stories. I don’t watch a movie like the Little Mermaid because I idolize the romantic relationship. But instead because the animation is beautiful and Ursula is a camp icon. It’s fascinating how a religious upbringing can completely change your perspective on media.
Disney was pretty popular with my peers at that age, too, and I'm in a very liberal area. The songs are fun to sing, even if you think the plots are a little sketchy, they're basically comfort food for millennials.
Alyssa!!! I watch your videos religiously but I’m a Jewish American living in Italy and literally never thought I would meet a Mormon lo and behold today on the train I met 4 missionaries and even got a Book of Mormon out of it. I swear it was like a celebrity sighting for me just because of your videos
Lifelong atheist here (though culturally lutheran). When I was 16, I went to the US as an exchange student, and stayed with a mormon family.
I found their religion to be peculiar, to say the least. Both they and I had to sign a no proselytising clause, so I actually learnt very little about Mormonism from them.
I found their morals to be terribly conservative, compared to what I was used to from Germany (though that applied not only to my host family, but the rest of my american experience).
Now, after watching some of your videos, I realise how liberal my host family actually were, for mormons.
I'd love to see you have a conversation with Shalise from the Cults to Consciousness podcast. She's also an ex Mormon, and her podcast is so enlightening when sharing stories from individuals that were part of cults and high demand groups ❤
I feel these two would be good friends
I would avoid Shalise and any atheists since they are lost souls. People who abandon groups or cults frequently hop from one bandwagon to another. The "bandwagon effect" refers to people's predisposition to adopt specific attitudes, styles, or actions simply because others do. More precisely, it is a cognitive bias that causes shifts in public opinion or behavior when certain actions and beliefs gain popularity. Many former Mormons have joined the New Age movement. New agers are intent on creating their own god, just as Mormons believe that any man may become a god.
Yes! I think Shelise and Alyssa should definitely collaborate!
Yes!!!!! Oh they'd be great!
Regarding the Disney movies, your comments remind me of something I experienced in church. Although I’m not Mormon and never have been, I joined an evangelical church during college as a trauma response to my childhood. Unfortunately, it turned out to be quite cult-like. Disney was incredibly popular there as well. Even though I spent time with ‘young adult’ groups, I felt like we were all being infantilized. Our interactions and the limited list of approved activities were strikingly childish: church services, Bible study, Disney (or other ‘wholesome’) movies, sports, and the occasional outing for ice cream-that was about it.
It’s incredibly refreshing to be out of that environment and finally feel like I’m living as my authentic, age-appropriate self.
I do love Disney movies myself though..watched Cinderella for the first time in college, and I love the art style. And the story's nice but succinct too. And I don't like too much sex in movies etc. So in that sense, I'd fit in :P
But I can see that being a problem with not feeling authentic. For instance, I've found the 'youth pastor' vibe on retreats nauseating ever since I was little and everyone who acts like that
@@keegster7167 oh yeah, nothing wrong with Disney movies. I enjoy them, too. I’m just glad that my options for what movies to enjoy aren’t limited anymore 😁
It's funny seeing others my age and seeing how adult they are as an ex-mormon in a Mormon dominated location. Unless adults are married, they're very much so still treated like children. I don't know how to do anything and I feel like a child because that's how I'm treated. I've tried to explain this to people who didn't grow up like I did and they don't get it and I often get called spoiled for it. Which, yeah, is true, but it came with a big cost that I don't want and people don't understand that. It's so strange that that's how they treat unmarried adults in the church.
Thank you for explaining this one to us. Couldn't figure out how a trad wife was different than a housewife. My grandmother recalled with great fondness how much she loved not being allowed to touch the household money or have a say in the financial investments even though she had a degree in economics and as the daughter of a successful stock trader she knew more than most people about how to make money in the stock market....Can't even imagine why any woman would want to go back to those Good-Ol-Days.
The training doesnt even start at 12. Even in activity days (for girls 8 to 11) i remember doing activity sheets themed around housework and raising children. I remember specifically when i was 8 an activity we did where we baked cookies for our future children. Like... "Bake these cookies the way you'd want to bake them for your kids" WE WERE THIRD GRADERS.
Edit: I also remember when i was 9 or 10 an activity where we did a 'mom obstacle course' where we would take toys from the nursery and scatter them around the gym, and a leader brought a basket of laundry, among other things, and we'd COMPETE to clean up the toys and see who could fold the laundry the fastest. What kid wants to do chores for fun?????
Holy shit
jesus christ, this unlocked so many memories lol. i'd blocked most of this out. my mom kinda forced me to finish personal progress so hearing you call it a "flex" to wear the medallion around is so funny because i hated the entire process and let my necklace sit gathering dust forever, until i finally threw it away when i was moving a few years ago. really helps me realize how incredibly mormon my mom was (and still is) that she forced me to do this whole process that a lot of mormon women never quite complete or prioritize. and seeing the language in your screenshots of the manual just ties it all up in a bow, this was something i'd mostly forgotten about but revisiting it is really helping my healing LOL. thank you :)
guys wake up!!! new vid just dropped from alyssa grenfell
Wooooooooottttttttt 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
You know, everyone who sees your comment is already here.
@@maxxximum_productions😮i had no idea, it definitely was a completely literal statement and not just an expression of enthusiasm for the video and creator, thanks for letting me know x
I got married way sooner than I should have (20 years old and had just left the church) because of my family’s influence. I had so many people jump on board with it and fully support me only to learn a year later that many of them were just trying to be polite. I wish someone kindly said something because my best friend had to be the one to challenge my dedication to going on a mission because it was “willing to go even if it killed me”. I was so stubborn about my womanhood and naive to the world outside of Mormonism. I’m grateful my husband and friends have stuck with me in this deconstruction process ❤️
You're really keeping us well fed with the frequency and length of these videos, I love it. I'm from Sweden, by the way! Tell your husband I said hej (: I've never been a mormon or raised other than nominally protestant christmas, but your videos are so engaging and informative, I've started turning them on to do tasks to and sometimes to sleep. I have maybe been dropping random mormon facts to my friends and family for the past few months at this point. My mum had an ex boyfriend who joined Livets Ord (Like christianity mixed with scientology, I think) and there is a Jehovah's witnesses literally right across my school I grew up in, where strangers would approach us students at the bus stop and ask us if we believed in angels. So in short, I have no connection to mormonism, but as a gullible autistic young adult, knowing about indoctrination is I think a very useful life skill. Also I wanted to say that I'm really sorry for the regret and sorrow you feel about your time teaching bullied/bullying kids in Utah, and I wish you could get closure, or at least find a silver lining in teaching many others to get out of a toxic environment with your book and with your videos. Sending all my love and grateful thoughts to you and your channel. ❤
Not me making bread in a dress while listening to this. 💀🤣
Another great one, Alyssa. I’m not Mormon and I don’t personally know any Mormons, but you’ve been educating me for months.
I’m getting my masters degree in Christian theology after doing a B.A in theology and philosophy. Because my professors were either Catholic or mainline Protestant I never thought about Mormonism at all- I just assumed they were quirky Christians who liked to travel and didn’t drink coffee. These videos (I’ve been binge watching them for the past few weeks) have showed me that Mormon lore is low key insane lol. A lot of the purity culture stuff is similar to what evangelical/ conservative Christians teach but the rest of it is so different. The classes, the necklaces, the temple garments, baptism for the dead, the secret handshake to get into heaven.. it’s like someone wrote a sci-fi fanfic about God and set the whole thing in North America.
She's roped me in as no religion ever managed. She just explains things so clearly... I never had to go through this so I have no perspective... I am also binge watching.
I was struggling with postpartum depression, and even now with my 5 year old, some of those intrusive thoughts still pop up. One of the hardest questions I deal with, still, is wondering if my desire to be a mother was genuine, biological, or because it was shoved down my throat from such a young age? Was it because I was told it was my only purpose in life?
Motherhood has been brutal and nothing like I expected it to be, and I am so thankful to *not* be a trad-wife. I love my little one, but I wouldn't have survived having a second, and it makes me wonder - how does the church support women with traumatic pregnancies or PPD/PPA?
I'm so glad I left the church before then, I would have lost it if the solution was a "blessing".
Alyssa, thank you sobmuch for your content, I've done so much processing of my own experiences while watching your videos.
To answer your question no they don't.
⚘ Be honest with yourself. Being submissive, 'choosing' what you've been programmed and indocrinated since childhood to 'choose' .. is not Free Will. Its more of a 'Stepford Wife' script. .. How do I know? At 73, I've lived this, watched my mother and grandmothers endure the, '... but what about MY dreams, needs and wants?' heartache, not even knowing how to pay the bills or what the bank balance was when their husbands died. YOU'RE A SMART PERSON. LEARN FROM OTHERS' EXPERIENCE. Thank you, Alyssa.
The pressure to live your life in a traditional way is immense even outside of religion (While still being worse within in). I grew up thinking I would have children as the default, instead of how it should've been, with me undecided because I haven't even decided my favorite color yet let alone questions you need to ask yourself before you're even ready to give the first thought to children.
Yes! Even though I'm around many liberal, egalitarian couples, I still remember my early years really revolving around the idea of finding a husband. Luckily that pressure didn't last and I've been adamantly childfree since like grade 2. I can't imagine growing up with that traditional mindset for dozens of years! However, my journal was pretty much just used for romantic concerns (i.e. my crushes as a teen lol).
@@thenopedetective I mean, I think that's as worthy a goal as any, just like wanting children, but a person should stop to consider, wait, is that really something I'd be good at, for one, let alone the question of wanting it genuinely or not. I realized a partner really is that important to me but a child is not. Others are opposite. Some want neither. The exact configuration of "must have child *and* spouse" is brainwashing at its finest.
@bespectacledheroine7292 I grew up mormon, and I was taught all the lessons that she is talking about right now. I always thought I was gonna have kids. And when I got married, I was so hesitant to have kids at first I said I'd wait two years, and then two years came and went, and yet I was still very hesitant, Dare I say it scared to have kids. It took years Of asking myself why i'm so reluctant to have kids. Then I asked myself the taboo question, do I even want kids? In my immediate answer is no. It took me four years To learn I didn't want kids. I don't know if you've done it yet, but maybe sit yourself down and ask yourself those taboo questions, do you even want kids?Do you even like kids? Would you be okay Sacrificing everything that you are for your kids? Would being a parent be worth it to you? Is it something you actually desire?
Stephanie Stalvey an artist who focuses on purity culture has a great quote that I try to keep in mind, as someone who’s never been a Christian and consider myself pretty progressive, that’s something like: “Purity culture makes the implicit misogyny in dating/marriage culture explicit.”
1:20:00 I am an attorney. And cosign everything you say in this section, and it is SO IMPORTANT to know. Thank you! A work history makes someone MORE employable next job. But a past marriage with kids makes someone LESS marriageable in the eyes of men. So being a SAHM is unpaid labor that makes your value in the free market go down. It's important women understand this.
I was raised Independent Fundamental Baptist and relate to a lot of what you went through. I too was trained to be a trad wife… here I am working on becoming a doctor :)
Follow your dreams ladies.
Yes! A man is not a plan! Omg, life is so crazy and chaotic, i love the hope for the best and plan for the worst idea. Such good advice! Thank you for all that you do! ❤
And even if he was a plan, what the when kids are not needing anymore mums care? My uncles wife had been stay-at-home-mum for about 15-20 (?) years, when she returned to studying and then work. She felt so empty as she had dedicated her life to kids, but they did not need her as much anymore. When she returned to work, she must have been around 50. Did not go super well. She become depressed and in the end needed to retire early. Maybe some job (even a few hours a week) during child care years could have very good for her. But who knows, this is speculation.
4:24 I think the most important difference between a SAHM and a tradwife is whether the roles are negotiated from a starting place of mutual autonomy and self-sufficiency or whether they are imposed based on a received model and (usually) power imbalances.
Non Mormon here but I grew up in Las Vegas with many Mormon girlfriends and I’m so glad you’re touching on this! I’m a nondenominational Christian and I was widowed at 25 with a 2 and 3 year old. We owned our own business doing high rise window cleaning in Northern California and I couldn’t replace my husband and take care of my 3 year old daughter and my 2 year old -26 week preemie son with all of his special needs. No one wants to think about these things but it needs to be shared. I was blessed to find my now husband a year later which was fast but he jumped right in to being a father to my children changing diapers etc. and we moved his two sons in with us and we raised our 4 kids together. 15 years later and stronger than ever lol. I tend to be a more conservative wife when it comes to my husband. He is the head. But I am NOT meek and mild lol. He respects me and we have it out as needed lol. I own our current business and I’m going for my real estate license and he roots me on. I’m also covered in tattoos and I’m free to be myself. This religion is really a man created society world and it’s wild. Thank you for your videos ♥️♥️♥️
It's really cool to hear about your life! Thanks for sharing!
When I first started hearing "trad wife" I was certain it was just a kink. Now that I know what it is, it is functionally an institutionalized kink community that's faith based. BDSM Breeder Kink but replace the black leather with a sundress and the chains with flowers. Also the church is there instead of a dungeon.
The best thing to be said about any woman or person choosing to be a stay-at-home-parent is that you need a safety net. I don't care how sexy it makes you feel to have yourself provided for. Have your partner pay you weekly/monthly FOR the work you are doing at the house and have that money go into a separate personal account. If your partner has a business you should own shares in it, or you should get monthly payouts from it in the same fashion. If you had a career and or degree before deciding to do this, have it in your prenup that in case of divorce, there will be an estimated fine to pay for all the job market value you have lost while at home. Take courses for work even if you don't plan on working, just for the fun of learning. Stay up to date. If you want to enter a situation where abuse is not only easy but even the norm, then you need to first level the playing field. Remember that abuse occurs only when there is an imbalance of power. So protect your personal power over yourself so that none can take it. If a partner does not agree to give you a safety net, then run the fuck out of there.
My husband and I are currently DINK (dual income no kids) and even though I’m a teacher and currently on summer break, we split the tasks pretty evenly! I cook, he does the dishes. I do the bathroom, he vacuums/sweeps/mops. We split the litter boxes for our two cats. I have been helping out more with lawn care when I can while I’m home and I’ll do snow removal if there’s a snow day and things like that but overall it’s shared.
A teacher with no kids...? No irony here.
A marriage based on shared responsibility and shared effort tends to be one that flourishes from what I can tell. I wish more couples understood that. Equality and communication are just so damn key.
@@sailingaeolus I’ve been married less than a year… I want kids but it hasn’t happened yet. There are definitely teachers that don’t want kids or can’t have kids though.
@@sailingaeolusyou’d be surprised how many teachers want nothing to do with children at home
@@sailingaeolus ???? plenty of teachers don’t have children. many of them don’t want to deal with more kids after dealing with kids all day.
Funny story (exmo here), I am Turkish and come from an agnostic family and did an exchange year in Canada when I was 16 and attended church with my member best friend there, after I went back I begged my mom to get baptized it was a no, but she allowed me to attend the church here which was held in the US Base and you had to get special permisson to enter, I was treated like a baptised member and was the only young woman, my "leader" being a 19 years old lonely army wife (sometimes I think I was her only friend :( ) got my personal progress completed there even tho I wasnt a member and got baptised when I turned 18...went inactive then suuuuper active after college...all this to say I actually enjoyed the young womens program and even got my medallion because it gave me an excuse to not study "mom I am doing my spiritual thing!"
@@stacy6994 oh no not at all they are very good things that can be done without the pressure of a high demand religion. I love my LDS friends and the values they helped me to uphold but as I grew I realized i didnt need a religion to have those values.
I do appreciate that you and your husband have such a good relationship and that he loves being a dad.
I genuinely was shocked to hear how many parents bitterly resent their children and their spouse for not being the culmination of their lives.
So many people are guided down the vague path of "get married, have kids" or "go to college, get a job" and once they accomplish those goals they just look around like "Okay, now what?" and there really isn't an easy answer for that.
The way im just translating everything you told here to my grandma. She doesnt speak a word of english, but can relate A LOT to a lot of things youre telling, growing up in rural Brazil in the 60's. The way she gasped when i said you were 31!!
exmo here: looking back it's funny to see that I legit trained my voice down when I was growing up because I didn't want the Relief Society Voice(tm). This, of course, led to things such as adults telling me that my laugh was too loud, that trying to go first to get food wasn't allowed and I was being selfish (despite me literally shaking due to not eating), and that I was essentially too boisterous and selfish to be a good wife and mother. I knew even as a kid being forced to become a wife and mother that I never wanted kids. I voiced this once, and was told that once I have kids I'll get over it because being a mother is the best most wonderful thing you can do and you're not even 18 yet. Due to me not fitting into the mold I was supposed to be (despite my parents making me do personal progress and all that garbage), I was ostracized and was always made to feel like an Other because I couldn't conform. Luckily I got out before doing the temple rites and I am happily childfree and married to someone I actually love rather than someone who would use me as a maid. It's always wild seeing yet another thing Mormonism has done to fuck me up.
I feel less crazy knowing I wasn't the only one that experienced all of those growing up
white western feminism is about choices (see "choice feminism"), but i would say feminism overall is liberation for all genders from patriarchal oppression in its many forms
I really enjoy the nuance of this conversation, because I am a person who does not agree with fundamentalist doctrine, and yet there are many aspects of trad-wifeism that appeal to me. I guess it's more that the notion of a handmade home is what appeals to me, divorced from any particular religion.
I love how you are "subtly" scoffs at your young self values. I find it endearing and shows how much growth you have.
Excellent video. My daughter, before she died recently, taught in Salt Lake City. She was very concerned about Mormon girls, but was careful about how she educated. One of her famous quotes, as she tried to encourage girls to finish their educations, was: “ a husband is not a retirement plan.” I find your insights very interesting.
I've never really met people from the Mormon Church, but your videos are super interesting and facinating to watch and learn from.
This channel is emotionally intoxicating. Amazing to see you find your true self. Thank you for sharing all this!
Always so excited to see you’ve dropped a new video 🎉
Hello! :) I hope you enjoy!
You made a great point about the risk of depending on a spouse to support you. My husband is actually a sahd and we made sure he has an investment account so he has an income if the worst happens. It’s something to consider.
As the mother of 5 Birth and 5 adopted children, I’ve enjoyed being a Mom. I was an EMT off and on for 34 years, a National phlebotomist. I enjoyed and still enjoy staying home , I am widowed now, but still enjoy being a Stay at home wife. My late Husband didn’t help much, he became disabled, so I did everything.
I’m so sorry you lost your husband, and have been raising 10 kids alone. Even if you have the good fortune to not have to work to get by, that can’t be easy.
But, I think it’s important to say that Alyssa loves being a mom too. This isn’t about not wanting children, or not wanting to be a stay at home mom. It’s about how the religion teaches boys and girls about their purpose and value in life, and the damage that can do along the way.
@@mimimaitri1 oh no I wasn’t criticizing her, just giving my 2 cents🤗we raised the first 5 before adopting the next 5 . I have only 3 at home now😊
Alyssa your videos have been so healing for me, every time you have a topic that was traumatic for me on my childhood or my teen years. I remember how I lost my virginity like when I was 19 with a guy I thought was the love of my life and I thought I was going to get married, but suddenly he dumped me and I was absolutely devastated, looking for help I told to my sister in law what I should do cause I was still part of the church and all of my life they teach me I had no worth anymore if I wasn’t a virgin, and her response to me when I told her the situation was to begged him to get back with me 💀💀💀 cause in fact I didn’t have any worth anymore cause I lost my virginity with him, ofc that made me feel even worse. Now I can understand things better and I recovered my selesteem but took me years of therapy 😢
I’m so sorry you had to go through that heartbreak and then be blamed.
Just a note on the stay-at-home girlfriend. The only difference between her and a sugar baby/mistress/s__x worker is that she is regarded as "pure" with it whereas the others are more upfront about the transactional nature of the relationship. If SaH girlfriends do not think they're "paying" for their lifestyle through other ways they are royally deluded.
my mom wasn't a tradwife but she was a stay at home mom (my dad had a job that got him transferred a lot so she couldn't finish college; my mom's dream was to be an english teacher but that never happened). my mom always liked taking care of me and my sisters and she liked doing the chores, but she always felt upset that she never got the chance to actually do what she wanted in the first place, and then my parents' relationship began deteriorating and they refused to get divorced because my mom wouldn't have anything on her name and a 20+ year gap on her resume, so it would be very hard for her to get a job. my dad even gave me that talk about how if it wasn't for me and my sisters, they would've gotten divorced. i know there's plenty of cases with stay at home moms that have happy fullfiling lives, but sometimes looking at my mom i think she feels very trapped
as a 15yo girl I've always compare the marriages I see in my enviromnent to what I want for myself and this kinda videos are always really interesting to me bc I'm from a "traditional" family in paper (dad is the primary breadwinner of the house, mom is primary caretaker for me) but in practice my family is not as traditional (mom also works, I'm expected to get a higher education, dad helps around the house whenever mom is busy) and I sometimes feel that disconnect between the many parallels my family and a western traditional lifestyle have but also notice a variety of differences that don't seem like a big deal but have shaped me and my parents in an irreversible way. I find it so fascinating and important how the difference between me and a mormon girl my age is probably not on the of money or the way our families are built but in that core belief implanted by the parents. The "here are your options" in comparison with "here's your *only* option"
I’m so glad you hit on the parallels between trad wife and stay at home moms. My mom was stay at home mom working only a few years after my birth. My dad was financially abusive to the point that when they divorced and he left we didn’t know what to do. We had no idea about EBT welfare nothing. He also took the only money she had from previously working because he had stored it for “safety” in his banking account.
Alyssa you handled this topic so well and cover so much! You are thorough, thoughtful and nuanced. I hope women will consider financial and legal advice as an important piece of knowledge for life.
I think it’s interesting that you often switch into the soft gentle voice when you ask people to subscribe mid video. As someone raised by a different group of Christianity I find any time I ask for something I switch my tone because I was taught not to ask for things.
Love the video and apologize if someone else already pointed this out, too many comments to go through.
this was so validating. I literally didn’t think higher education was important bc I was just going to become a mom so why would I need a degree. Now I know I don’t want to be a mom so I feel so lost in my life, married, no degree, no aspirations…
This is only the second time I've watched one of your videos and I'm very, very impressed. I hold a doctorate in Philosophies of Religion, and the LDS Church remains the hardest for me to wrap my head around. I've often found that "exes" (former members) are the best for me to learn from and you do a great job of passing along the knowledge you've clearly invested a lot of time and effort in acquiring.
Looking forward to continuing to learn from you!
Thank you especially for pointing out, that middle aged or older women and their situation is almost never shown anywhere and therefor the reality of situaions is heavily skewed.
I love how every time Christian nationalism or traditional wife or some such topic is brought up, some Christians will say things like 'this are not the “true” teachings of Jesus or Christianity'. When the fact is the patriarchy and the dominion of men over women are absolutely baked into both the Old and New Testaments. In addition, there is absolutely no concept of healthy sexuality in these religions. In fact, that is discouraged, especially in the purity culture that is so predominant in both Mormon and Baptist faiths. We see this in the separation of men and women, as you described early in your discussion, and in Baptist purity culture, boys are discouraged from having conversations for more than 10 or 15 minutes with women, lest they “stumble.” Purity pledges do not work; purity balls are creepy and weird. All of this is grooming of the first order.
I would love to see a “journal “ video. I’m a big YES!
Agreed!
Dude, I do not know how they do all that without coffee😂
Truly, through -God- Joseph Smith all things are possible. 😂
I can't imagine not having coffee first thing in the morning, especially when it's beautiful outside. Nothing like seeing the sun rise and feeling a cool breeze with a hot cup of coffee of my hand.
They drink the equivalent in Soda and Energy Drinks because those are allowed...
@@arch417powersports I believe that it's the caffeine that's banned, not the coffee. That's what my Morman sister avoids. What say you, Alyssa?
@@ramblerdave1339caffeine isn’t recommended but coffee is a NO NO . Tons of Mormons drink soda with caffeine, and chocolate, pain pills with caffeine ect.
This is my favorite of your videos. It is so informative. Every young woman should watch it. Thank you for speaking up about the risks of being a stay at home wife
Never Mormon here, but am intrigued by your stories. You are so articulate, and a talented storyteller. Thank you for educating us.
i was literally thinking about ballerina farm as you posted. happy for a new video!
Hello!
I'm 21. Technically, I am no longer mormon, but I was raised mormon. my family converted in the late 50s. I never really fit in at church. Primary was.. fine, but moving into young womens was a pretty isolating scenario. At the time I had undiagnosed autism and adhd, and struggled to really... connect with everything. I could never do personal progress. It was too much work for things that I didn't care for. I was closeted, lonely, and out of place in a place that I thought was meant to be welcoming.
That said, I did like my leaders, and some of the other young women, but I never, truly fit in. Even now, a few years out of young women, I barely talk to them. They're all friends, almost all have boyfriends or have been married already, and I just feel... Lost. I've never dated before, and I always hated the push to being a good wife and mother. Youth events for the older age bracket was always speed dating, and I always hated it. It never felt right, attempting to speed date guys I knew didn't like me one bit, and pretend to be interested in it.
Guys used to pretend to like me as a joke. On more than one occasion they told me to kill myself. Then in Young Womens, I would get asked why I was never interested. And apparently the answer "because the guys here suck" wasn't good, or valid, because they were 'good mormon boys'. Like it was my fault they were mean to me. Granted, my teenage years were pretty hard for me, and I really struggled to 'be normal'
Now we're all adults, there's almost this... "we forgive and forget" motif especially with the people in my Stake. They treat me as if we had been friends this whole time. As if they never laughed at me, pretended to like me. The girls pretend that they never purposefully excluded me from things, shot down my ideas for activities and give me disdainful stares whenever I tried to be myself. For them, it was a regular Sunday or Mutual. To me, it was formative moments in my life that I won't forget.
In just the beginning of the video when you mentioned that all the girls would be baking while the boys played basketball, it just reminded me of all the times I did that too. Countless times the boys would play volleyball or basketball or cricket (im australian) and the Young Women would be in the church kitchen making them treats. Once or twice we reversed it, and the Young women would do a 'pampering' night, painting each others nails, doing each others hair, things like that, and then Young Men would make us something. But half the time, the mothers of the Young Men were in there actually doing the cooking.
And even the pamper nights I struggled with. I didn't like people touching me, so I had to paint my own nails, and bring my own polish because I didnt want vibrant pink nails. My hair is curly and I didn't know how to take care of it, so no one was allowed to touch it. Most of those nights I just sat and drew and didn't talk to anyone.
I've been binging your videos recently. I do feel guilty for not considering myself mormon anymore, but I can't be there anymore. I said technically earlier because I still participate in my stakes choir. Not for God, or Jesus, but for my choir director who genuinely needs me as a strong voice in the choir. It's mostly older folk, and some struggle to carry tunes or hit the high soprano parts, so that is usually my job. Even just by myself, I can sing loud enough that it sounds like there is more than one person singing the part.
I've been reflecting on my time, and just realizing how much of my experience growing up mormon was riddled with begging and lying. I used to beg god to take away my sexuality, often scrubbing my skin raw as if it would make him pity me more and grant me what i wanted. I lied all the time for my temple recommend because I didn't know what would happen to me, or even my mum if i was truthful.
I'm kinda rambling, and I'm sorry, but I just want you to know how much these videos are helping me.
I have an interesting thought about the fundie baby voice. I have had a lot of ab*se in my life, starting from before i was born until i finally left my spouses in 2020.
My voice pitch woukd rise and my intonation and even vocabulary would become more child-like when i felt the need to appear harmless.
I actually noticed that happening when i was in a cab recently with a very angry man who was screaming at me and cussing at other motorists. I'm disabled, in a wheelchair and unable to drive. It was too hot to try to get another cab so i was stuck in the cab with a man i was afraid of until i could get home. I slipped into that voice without realizing it.
I speculate it may develop in some people as a sort of way of saying "please don't hurt me; i'm harmless." It's interesting that you see women using that voice in more conservative circles, where it has been shown that it is more likely for a woman to be ab*used in some way.
I did not grow up as a fundie but yet i still gravitated and still gravitate to it as a sort of defense against the possibility of violence when i am unable to leave a situation.
I grew up christian but it was the very strict and conservative kind. Like the duggers. Your video resonated with me very much because the teachings about being an obedient and submissive wife are drilled into my head. I wrote a letter at 13 to my future husband about our wedding night. Which now that i think about it, it was creepy. I was trained since i was born to be a tradwife. I was told since a young age that my value is in how many children i can have. I was taught that i am nothing more than property and should only matter as much as land or animals that a man buys. I was recently kicked out of the church for being a "devils daughter" and asking too many questions. I am unpacking everything I was taught and unlearning it all. I really love your videos. Thankyou so much.
Fortunately for all, my family was VERY sure god didn't want me anywhere near the kitchen. When I was about to marry my grandmother was relieved my husband to be could cook coz I'm pretty sure she thought he might not survive any meal I prepared.
Besides the issue of needing to be prepared to be self-sufficient after a divorce, even if one doesn't expect or plan on a divorce, there is also the situation where one partner can pass away and the surviving partner could wind up a widow
The add I got was how to control “self love”. 😂😂 I’m glad you are being paid by these advertisers.
26:02 we got compared to used toothbrushes and “blown-out tires.” The youth leader literally said “no man wants a tire that’s had a dozen nails in her.” This was not an LDS church, but still. Disgusting.
Oh my god
ughhh ALYSSA i am loving the long content i found you through shorts but these are so so informative keep it up youre amazing
Thank you for posting weekly. I save your videos for Sunday morning and it’s really helped me feel less guilty as I fully separate myself. You are my new Sunday routine 😂
“the courage to promptly and quietly obey” is really the message of how mormon women are treated
5:50 That was actually pretty common in the 50s and 60s. You'd go to bed in your makeup, wait until your husband was asleep to take it off/apply night cream/put rollers in, and then wake up early to do your hair and makeup so he never saw you without it
Would love to see you collaborate with disabled women who are unable to work (or only able to work part time) on how this issue affects them and their experience with being dependent on a spouse.
Yes, I came to make a similar comment.
Additionally, lots of chronic disabilities (like mine) kick in around 25. It can go very wrong, very quickly. And when you factor in how young many of these women get married and the age differential...it paints a concerning picture
Disabled people have always been dependent on others. Nowadays they get disability in perpetuity, so in a way they actually have it easier than able women who lose their spouses, given how the unemployment benefits eventually stop.
@Aircalibur absolutely not. 1) disabled people are individuals. Bot everyone is disabled for their entire life, and it only takes 1 moment in time for your whole world to change (and your family's world).
2) we *definitely* do not receive anything in "perpetuity" 🤣 I have to re-prove I have a chronic condition (by definition, it can not go away) every few years to receive a pittance and tiny % of what it costs to be disabled. It's wildly expensive to be disabled.
3) Additionally, it often takes *years* of red tape (and contentious people) to even get disability benefits in the first instance.
4) .The vast majority of affordable housing is not accessible.
It only takes one moment, one thing, some gene "turning on" suddenly, for *anyone, even you, to be permanently disabled. And believe me when I say, many spouses leave and fast. (Mine is awesome, though.)
@@Aircalibur yikes.
This was an incredible, well-made, and important video. Thank you, Alyssa!
Omgosh Alyssa, I have to say that I enjoy your deep dives SO much! I told my TBM dad that I wouldn’t try to lead people away from TSCC but more and more I feel like I have something to say that needs representation in the exmo community. I’m currently wrestling with that and trying to figure out how to go about learning how to create posts. Thanks for all you do and the way you do it!!