The Elden Ring difficulty discourse is missing the point | Friends Per Second Ep #48
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
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Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
02:45 Catch Up
12:47 Elden Ring Expansion Chat With Mitchell Saltzman of IGN
01:00:18 Factor (ad)
01:03:10 Elden Ring Wrap Up Into User Question
01:17:05 Live QnA from the GameOn Cancer Charity Stream Featuring Alanah Pearce
02:06:28 Manscaped (ad)
02:09:27 What We've Been Playing
02:36:11 Show and Tell
02:49:22 Wrap Up
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Let's meet our hosts!
- Jake Baldino (aka the Before You Buy Guy) is pretty much the most watched reviewer on UA-cam across both Gameranx and his personal channel ( / jakebaldino . If you're obsessed with Delorians, The Mummy and Pizza you can discuss that stuff with him directly over on Twitter: @JakeBaldino
- Lucy James is a Senior Producer at Gamespot and a Creative Producer at Giant Bomb. She's actually, like, experienced and credentialed and has real life skills and stuff, while the rest of the gang would be funemployed if the YT algorithm didn't kiss them for random, inexplicable reasons.
- Skill Up used to work at McDonalds but he got fired for skimming too many chicken nuggets. He says he regrets it since he hasn't had a better job since.
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Head to factormeals.com/fps50 and use code FPS50 to get an exclusive 50% off your first Factor box, plus 20% off your next month! Thanks to Factor for supporting FPS.
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For years the souls ‘git gud,’ chuds have taken pride in the lack of hand holding via any modern difficulty settings/options. Well the normies have tried a From Soft game and they don’t like not having control over the difficulty for the entertainment product they paid for - tough sh*t for all the fanboys. They need to: Stfu-and-take-the-beating.
This episode’s volume mixing was
Q U I E T!!!!!!!
If it wasn’t called Assassins Creed, you wouldn’t be as down on it. The problem with AC is they needed to boot a new IP with that series and continue the old AC. Would have been much smarter, 2 very good IP’s as opposed to splitting a player base.
Lucy asking an American and an Australian if they dressed as historical British Tudor era characters in school 😂
Was dying
i love her so much lol
lucy is adorable i love these guys all together haha
I don't care how scadutree is supposed to be pronounced, those upgrade tokens will forever be scadoots to me.
Scadoosh fragments. (Pronounced in your best Jack Black voice)
It's basically pronounced the same as "Shadow", just written differently in old English
@@BirdMoose This is my canon now and I shan't hear otherwise!
23 skadus
I agree I prefer scaduuus@666slateran666
"Oh my god It's Jake Baldino!" Is probably the most relatable reaction
"Mimic tear become my blade ones more" was the most relatable joke from the Elden Ring segment lol
I sigh as I ring the bell on myself
*once
I feel like the environment and level design is exactly where they stepped it up compared to the base game. It's so dense and vertical, you can't just walk towards something to get to it. Just my two cents.
Definitely a lot of “how tf do I get down there?” Moments in this dlc, moreso than the base game. I like it.
@@billymays1761 brother that's a bot. Joined 3 hours ago, posted 3 hours ago, ~100 thumbs up instantly
@@JamesFustonshockingly well worded and strange comment from a bot lol I wonder what's up with that
@@creamyisdead boosting with a decent comment for engagement, highly suspicious link in bio. Just trying to get those eyeballs/interactions (which we should probably stop giving them)
I would argue there are more major step ups than just environment and level design. The movement provided by many of the new weapons, similar to monster hunter, can genuinely be game changing
Everytime I see Scadutree I just think “Blue Scadu we can too!” Now I’m just imagining Blue with a giant buster sword
DUDE! Me too! I'm so glad it's not just me.
Watching Lucy casually drinking her moonshine from the mason jar. Impressive she can remain so steady throughout the podcast.
It' s actually GBH.
Massive shout out to the hotel bedroom ironing board. An inanimate object, and still not the worst co-host this podcast has had…
The only problem I have with the DLC is the second phase of the Final Boss. Everything else is pretty ok for me and I enjoyed my time, that is, until the second phase of the Final Boss. There is no way that the boss is not overtuned and it will absolutely be nerfed in coming patch.
Yeah, that first phase was fun, then phase 2 hits and you get met with one of the most overtuned bosses in any soulsbourne game from Fromsoft to date.
@@darksol2519I can’t even find an opening during the second phase, i’m just rolling until I die 😂 and then I see some people have already killed him without getting hit!!! It’s ridiculous
dude. coupled with the near instant triple slash that comes out, i don't think one move has killed me so consistently in any souls game to date.
@@bondbarrybonds5774 use faster weapons
@@cactuss33ds THAT is what’s actually overtuned. I figured out how to deal with everything else except that move.
I love the cassowary talk, I did a school project on them once and I still love them to this day. Saying that they are an "emu but way angrier" is an understatement. They will F you up, like really bad. They will use their claws to rip out your intestines, all while making dinosaur noises. They are probably the closest things to living dinosaurs on earth today alongside crocodiles and alligators.
check out the pūteketeke!
The amount of difference Scadutree fragments makes is INSANE. I'm currently +13 on them and i have 70% damage resist. SEVENTY.
That's odd. I'm at +15 and at 67%
@@zoron1 I also have some talismans on that give me more (this is a reminder to go get dragoncrest great shield talisman)
@@zoron1it depends on your armor as well
This is on top of your normal stats. Remove all your gear to see what the fragments do by themselves.
Yeah, that's the big thing, Scadutree fragments are pretty much required to do well. I like exploring around the map so getting a good scadutree blessing level wasn't an issue but I know some people that don't like doing that and that's a big detractor for them in this expansion.
I disagree with SkillUp on the Shadow of the Erdtree map design being underwhelming. I found the map design to be extremely well designed and very unique (compared to other open world games). I haven't played a game with a map quite like this, the verticality plays with your perception of how big or small an area ends up being. Surprisingly, I haven't seen many people online talking about this, it really is excellent level design.
i mean it has at least 2 areas that are literally empty except the one quest location you have to go to for the same questline. That is just space for spaces sake, and a lot of shadow of the erdtree is like that, just not that egregious.
@@countryc0unt I’m talking about just map design and layout. I’m not speaking to the content that’s spread across the map. You are correct, there are several areas that feel like it’s missing content.
yeah super weird criticism, regardless of whether or not you think certain areas should have more content the design of the world & the act of exploring it is so impressive. it's probably the peak of FromSofts world design in my opinion.
Man seeing Mitch takes me back, watching him from game front do dark souls and dragons dogma playthroughs.
I feel like Lucy should get a second opinion 😂😂😂 because 20/20 vision is when see the letters without problems in the test
Isn't that what she did tho?
I’m with you Lucy, Wallace & Gromit was the best
Nobody knows how terrifying that penguin is until you watch the movie 😭
I definitely had nightmares about that penguin in The Wrong Trousers 😮
There’s a new Wallace & Gromit movie coming out about the penguin!!! I saw a teaser trailer recently
the penguin chase scene in Wallace and Gromit is commonly cited as one of the best examples of how to create an essential action sequence visually. it's flawless!
Dishonored is one game in which I feel you make your own difficulty by chosing whether you want to play stealthy or not.
or even playing full stealth no powers, because that is also possible. I gave up on lvl 3 because its not that fun, but definitely hard
but also not really that good how it was executed
@@MrKubahades its very fun, feels like a proper stealth game
@@Exel3nceit was executed phenomenally for the time it came out regarding the state of stealth games at the time.
I loved playing every dishonored game and dlc with no powers, no gear upgrades, without being spotted, and without killing anyone, all simultaneously and while on max difficulty
During the discussion about iterating on the same ideas with sequels and how much progress is necessary for a good sequel, I couldn’t stop thinking about monster hunter. They have taken the same idea and just improved it with each game, some elements changing some staying the same, while retaining the soul of the franchise for 20 years at this point. It’s honestly remarkable and proof that a sequel doesn’t need to always do something insanely wild or out of left field to be meaningful and worthwhile sequel.
That's true big in most cases Devs get sick of making the same game, monster hunter series is not a common thing
You actually get a gun after defeating Scadu the Hedgehog
🤣
Blue Scadu.
the penguin chase scene in Wallace and Gromit is commonly cited as one of the best examples of how to create an essential action sequence visually. it's flawless!
No one in the history of time has ever said "Mr. Bean is tight"
I love when Lucy says the most wildly funny sh*t 😂
If you're having issues with Shadow of the Erdtree, check out Leviathan's most recent video about Elden Ring mechanics. Jump more, lock-on camera less, use ALL THE BUFFS YOU CAN FIND. Incants, Livers, Boluses, Talismans. I feel like SoTE was made with these mechanics in mind, moreso than the base game
“Scadutree” I believe is technically pronounced shuh-doo-tree. It is indeed from older dialects, and I feel it’s to represent that the shadow lands are older, and so the “present” time in elden ring they pronounce and spell it “shadow”, where people native to the “older” shadow lands might’ve actually pronounced it “shuh-doo”
Shout out to Mitchell, IGN has been receiving its fair share of criticism for poor journalistic practices the last few years but all the stuff he makes rocks! His coverage of DLC has been pretty good!
Was watching him since GAMEFRONT days. He definitely stands out from the rest of IGN staff for me
It’s a hard job to do People like to shit on it But it’s not easy to give a game a rating for something that is so subjective.
You add that premise to the internet and you have a really stressful job to do. Almost everyone is going to disagree with you Some because they are trolls and some because they just value different things in video games.
Yup. The guy is legit.
I never expected to hear "Well you just need to git gud" from an IGN reviewer but that's what he basically said at one point😄
Mitchell is awesome. He's one of the good ones for sure.
"But I've been calling it the 'Skadoosh Tree' for 6 whole days, and that's just too big a committment for me to walk away from"
Ralph proceeds to take out his lenses to discard the Clark Kent disguise.
😂😂
I think level design and the vistas they created were a massive step up, the map is so dense and verticel its anxiety inducing and art design on these locations were incredible.
I was about to check how bad my vision deficiency got. So I looked across the room only to notice "holy shit everything is sharp!"
Then I realized I wear my glasses. Yeah no shit
Yes!!! Ralph is Superman He can speed up video game developers so it doesn’t take 6 years to make a decent video game 7 years for a good one and 10 years for a classic
And maybe end poverty and hunger afterwards
Personally the best thing bout Elden Ring was the exploration finding new areas, stumbling on a hidden area that you got sidetracked on and ended up getting lost for hours just by taking a right turn, which is a feeling that can’t be duplicated on second playthroughs and that’s what this DLC is giving me again, add in a few cool bosses and new cool weapons, sign me up. I’m loving trying to find everything on my own avoiding guides and everything just like I did in the base game and having a blast finding all these “secrets”. Arise ye Tarnished
The Thing is my favorite movie of all time, glad to know Ralph finally caught up on it.
I love Jake being the viewers insert
Lucy getting left hanging on Feathers McGraw made me die a little inside. BTW Wallace and Gromit coming to Walkabout MiniGolf soon.
Ngl this is the only show where I don't skip the ads they do, they are just SO funny!
Really enjoyed Lucy describing só many games on such a quirky way (didn't understand half of it - lol) and specially the non-game related stuff: don't fell bad Ralph, I also never watched the thing BUT have watched Event Horizon, and recommend it. Sam Neil and Lawrence Fishbourne in HELL is must see.
Also, in referente to Owmen, a Nun (or a Priest) don't follow a carrer, they follow a Calling.
Great show, cannot wait for Jake's MGS disertation video!
For the "combine 2 games to make a new game" question. I want an X-men team game in the style of Hades, with different characters having different abilities and play styles, and gorgeous hand drawn portraits and environments. I want it now.
The very old X-Men Legends and Ultimate Alliance games kind of fit that bill.
This is such a great idea
I just want an X- Men game. Maybe with X-Men '97
Just an idea for a guest that could easily be done with Lucy workmates : invite Jonathan Fergusson into the podcast for a mix of interview, and you each find weapon design in games you love and show them to him so he could tell you the design inspiration and mechanism, etc (you could also send him your weapons in advance so he can prepare some weapons models for you to show on the video.
Ralph ensuring his Cassowary overlords don't murder him. Those things will rip your face off for shits and giggles.
We already lost a war to the Emus, let's not mess with the Cassowaries. I mean fuck, Chuck Norris tells Cassowary jokes, not the other way around.
I liked the map design of the expansion personally. What I didn't like was that the Scadutree blessings pretty much forced you to explore around. I explore around anyways and enjoy it, but I don't like the feeling that we are forced to do so.
Really happy I got to watch the livestream last weekend I believe it was. It was so much fun. Glad you guys picked my question up during the stream. All of you guys are amazing together in this podcast.
Tbh just like Lucy, I was told that I had power however it was not so much and then I was told that I got perfect vision, no glasses required
Monster Hunter World is a game that allows the player to choose difficulty based on how much help they get. You can fight alongside your cat, you can fight with friends, you can call an S.O.S. and get help from a high level player.
You can also choose to take on the monster 1 v 1 without any external help and the game actually holds up by providing a great challange that feels fair and rewarding
As much as I'd love to have the patience and motivation to dry-and-retry each DLC boss until I solo it with a basic build and no summons, I just don't.
And I find it very funny to see all these people raging on Reddit and neg-reviewing the DLC on Steam, talking abt how unbeatable Messmer is, meanwhile, after worrying abt my encounter with him for the whole playthrough, I killed him in 3 tries with my Pizza Cutter build, Hornsent and Mimic at my side.
Would it have been more satisfying to take the slow route of learning his patterns and beating him one-on-one after a hundred tries? Maybe. But I'm too ADHD for that, I'd ragequit long before getting that win.
I'd much rather spend my playtime thoroughly exploring the map, finding secrets, experimenting and getting upgraded to the tits to plow through the hard parts than dying on a loop against a boss that vastly outscale me until I've rewired my entire brain around its mechanics.
There's a loud chunk of the Soulsborne community that just seems stuck on the idea that you're not really playing these games the way they're meant to be if you use summons or anything that makes an encounter easier. Except the very people who made those games they're gooning about are the ones who came up with summons and coop and gave us the tools to make broken builds.
If you're hating your time with the DLC so much you're leaving a bad review and regret buying it, maybe get your head out of your ass. It's up to you to make it as easy as you like. I'd say 'git gud' but that's the thing, you don't have to in order to beat the DLC.
EDIT: If you're one of these people who beat the bosses fair and square, I envy you. I've had that rush of hard-earned victory on a few of these bosses (when I knew it was within my abilities and didn't set myself up for a ragequit) and it's awesome. I think it's all about finding one's own difficulty limit, between "Too hard, this isn't fun anymore," and "Too easy, this isn't fun anymore." And I'm amazed at how FromSoft walks that line, especially with Elden Ring.
32:46 The reason why we simply have Scadutree fragments is because while From is great at environment, bosses, baddies, lore, etc, they are not good at itemization. There's many low hanging fruit they could have done to make the players run around and collect any number of things. (And any of this stuff, and more, could apply to the base game as well.)
For example, they can add "refined smithing stones" which add "refinement" levels to weapons, gaining an extra 25 levels but only bumping damage up by 10% in total or something. Maybe also weapon categories gain special properties such as projectiles do more weak point damage, strength weapons do more poise damage, dex weapons have longer combos, daggers crit harder, or whatever.
Talismans could be upgraded or combined. For example, we have Arrow Sting talisman (10% arrow damage), Arrow Reach talisman (longer arrow flight), and a new one which increases arrow weak spot damage. None of these are used outside of memes, but if all 3 of these were combined, it could be effective.
Then there's armor. Armor is a criminally under utilized resource in From games. We don't upgrade it and there's very little passive stats on it. Passive effects like stat boosts, damage type boosts, or other trade-offs should be common place. They've got a massive lore library to pick from, so it should be a no-brainer. For example, Godrick Lordsword Soldier set could net you +1 strength on gloves, +1 dex on boots, +2 vigor on chest, +1 int on helmet. When you have the whole set, you gain +1 vigor and +1 strength too. And maybe Redmane Knights could net you strength, fire damage, and yadda yadda. And there's a special Redmane knight that grants +10% greatbow damage because of a few of them did cool greatbow stuff. Etc.
Anyway, still an awesome game though!
Fashion > stats
@@BobbyBopkins You can still do fashion with my suggestions.
@@hexthehardcorecasual I like your suggestions. I also like putting on what looks good, stats be damned.
This is the first time I got to comment so early... I love this trio so much. Especially Jake he's just so likable.
I searched up the upcoming "Lucy games" and all but one were already on my wishlist 😅
For the Scadutree Blessings, I think it works for several reasons. Players can be coming in at a wide array of levels. Especially since you can access the dlc before you even finish the main game. It gives an opt in approach that isn’t simply just level grinding for hours for lower level players, and players can both choose to opt in or out, and choose how many Blessings they take to customize their own difficulty through exploration rather than having something like an Easy, Normal, and Hard mode. Also, it allows an easy marker for removing that power level when you go back to the base game so it doesn’t ruin your main game (you don’t keep the blessings when you leave the dlc). All in all I’m not sure any other system would accomplish all these points but this one. And it works surprisingly well. ER has always been great at providing tools and options for players of a wide skill variety and this one is no different.
It doesn't work at all. Lamest way to deal with arbitrary difficulty. "Go out and explore our world bc of you don't the bosses will be a complete pain in the ass, and oh yeah you can't have any of these upgrades you spent hours looking for after your done here sowwy" also it's just a static increase to damage output and defense, no unique way to deal with that. Just "find item, game get easier" it's lame as hell.
I heavily disagree.
I do think that a separate leveling system was necessary, but Scadutree blessings don’t work precisely because they detract from the core gameplay which revolves around combat. The great thing the base game did was that if you had trouble with an area or a boss you could go anywhere else, fight easier bosses and you would eventually level up enough to return to the boss that gave you trouble. It was a natural progression and I never felt forced to grind or explore for the sake of exploring.
Scadutree Blessings should, in theory, incentivize exploration but in reality they devalue most optional content because why would I bother to go through a mini-dungeon when I know the reward is going to be a piece of equipment I will probably never use? The base game had this “issue” too, but it was mitigated by the fact that even if you got something you don’t want, going through a dungeon and killing a boss still gave you some form of progress by giving you runes you could use to level up. Now we get pretty much nothing.
It would be a different story if these things could always be received by killing any boss but even then, it would have made killing normal enemies just as pointless as it is now. I personally think the new system should’ve been simply: “Get these upgrades by spending X amount of runes”.
Yeah, as someone who has high level character the Scadutree Blessing system really helps rebalance the game for me, and since I'm at NG+ I'm used to things hitting hard, and the blessing does show its effects with just a bit of natural progression
Also, one thing I like with the blessing buff, is that it allows us to use the riskier items or buffs that has demerits like increase damage taken, but due to the blessing buff the effect of those demerits are less with some like the Scorpion talisman becoming really minimal in the DLC and makes it a risk free buff.
it is good for the base game , yes, caues it was always the issue of being overleveled going back to the main game. but those fragments are such terrible design. killing is not important, enemies are not important. you are just running throught the world looking for shiny things. and if you cant fcking find them, you are screwed cause they are a must.
just fcking balance the game instead of this crap
The world is too big and too empty to encourage exploration for most players. It's like looking for needles in a haystack. Which in turn leads to people not having enough blessings and making the game too hard. They have to cut the unnecessary size of most areas down if they want to make the blessings system work.
That happened to me! When I was adopted into the States I had abysmal vision, but over time, it actually corrected itself! To this day, I still have no idea why.
My stone club will slay the gods
Words carved in the obelisk
Did Lucy just tell us its a "grindset"? Lmfao 🤣
I'm not a huge fan of the skibidi branches, but what a damn good DLC. I wouldn't call the shadow tree fragments an elegant solution btw, its an extremely simple solution, maybe a clean solution, but not elegant.
It definitely works and is a great way to encourage further exploration and not just grind.
Good news for Lucy, first Vaati video on the dlc is out! And it’s so good. Filled in some of the blanks for me.
Lucy's fallow school story was absolutely fascinating
My problem with scadutree fragments is they dont feel like a power investment like leveling up, they just feel like a slider that they only give you one notch (or one half-notch) of at a time.
I tried not to use the scadutree fragments at first, because I was a plus 160 level character going in. I found that I was able to do enough damage against most enemies to take them out just as quick as the main game, but I was taking way too much damage myself. My damage resist was just ridiculously low without the fragments in the shadow realms, so in the end I was forced to use them.
Mitchell! Miss watching you at gamefront but I’m so glad you’ve had so much success! Great to see you again here for the greatest crossover for me so far!
I am having quite a bit of difficulty on the consort of Radahn. His Gay superpowers keep overwhelming me.
Turtle build my man - heavy armor, blood and rot rapier with an greatshield with high holy damage resistance. Just hold L1 and R1 the entire fight - easy mode
@@oggelicious2716 oh man. I just can’t. I’m dodge and slash throughout. I cannot abandon now!
I've got mixed feelings on the difficulty/balancing stuff and am willing to admit that, on my end, its a skill issue for the most part.
The only thing I can say in confidence is that I don't think the dancing lion is mechanically well designed. The way its cloaked and its size make it extremely hard to read. Bosses with misleading tells and delayed attacks is one thing, and it can be fun, but when the thing is flipping towards me and taking up all my screen so I can no longer see my character and by extension when I need to be dodging its delayed attacks it feels frustrating and cheap.
Environmentally though the DLC is gorgeous and had my jaw drop several times. Walking out onto the gravesite plain and seeing one of those massive fire monsters walking around in the distance was awesome. Easy 10/10 in the visual department.
nothing about is skill bases. well yes, but the main problem is that all bosses are just overtuned
Yea the lion was fucking annoying. But of the four remembrance bosses I’ve fought so far he was the only one which pissed me off. Mesmer in particular was amazing, and felt really fair. Rellana was a little much but I’m really impressed overall
Right on the money about the difficulty, don't be afraid to change up your build and try different approaches people! Use everything at your disposal, think about boss weaknesses and try out different movesets and ashes of war. It can make all the difference in the world.
Now that you said it, it makes total sense to be pronouced Shadowtree. Just like Gandalf's horse Shadowfax, which here in Brazil is called Scadufax, like Scadutree.
As someone who can't reliably dodge or parry during the Witcher 3's tutorial, I've always known that Souls-likes are not for me. The only reason I'd ever play a game like Elden Ring would be for lore or character reasons, and I'd pretty much require explicit "easy" difficulty settings.
The best video I have seen on the difficulty is from Mugthief, his video I think really breaks down a lot on the concerns and points on it.
I'm glad Jirard was nowhere near the fundraiser.
low hanging fruit
surprised hades wasnt mentioned as a game that handles optional difficulty really well
I saw my Optometrist this past week actually, on the prescription they gave me it said I have 20/20 but there was other stuff related to distance and astigmatism. He said I could probably get away without glasses but said it's worth trying to see if its useful for focusing on far things. Honestly the whole trip was extremely confusing LOL
In regards to games with emotional impacts, Ms. Pearce is correct: it's Gears 2. Shoutout to Tai.
Erdtree has been an amazing challenge. I am having a blast! Also, I don’t know if she changed her lighting or something, but Lucy’s dimples are POPPING! 😍
58:42
I had the same experience with the Shadow Keep Church District, where they tease you with the creepy movements of giant creatures in the deep waters beneath you. I was like "OOOOOOOH spooky, I wonder what's going to jump out and mess me up!"
Then (SPOILER) you lower the water and find a couple of completely recycled tree worms with 0 new mechanics. K... lame. Of all the creatures to pick from they could've really chosen better than the most re-used boss from any FromSoftware title. I was tired of those before finishing the base game, and I'd already fought TWO tree worms before reaching the keep.
I was so disappointed that it's only after I finished the ENTIRE Shadow Keep (all levels, bosses and floors included) that I stopped waiting for those big water creatures to show up and accepted that the shitty tree worms WERE those water creatures...
I disagree with SkillUp about the options afforded to players and their expectations regarding making any build work. I think using examples like bloodbourne and Sekiro as games where players can expect to only have one play style is missing the point. The reason players are complaining is because it doesn't just feel like we have to adapt our strategy, it's because we have to use a larval tear and create a new build from the ground up. Sekiro and BB are the games meant for limited play styles, whereas Elden Ring not only was a notoriously approachable game, with some exceptions to a few notable bosses, it was also a game that supported a lot of diversity in builds (shields, magic, dex, daggers, even ranged, etc.). In fact, in both categories it was arguably the best From Software has released, that is to say it had the most build diversity and the most accessibility.
To my point, me and about a half dozen friends all beat the final boss within 2-3 days of starting the DLC. We all started with different builds at the start of the DLC. By the end of the final boss, without any collaboration or communication amongst ourselves, we all naturally ended up with the same tanky armor, the same shields, the same talismans, Mimic tear, and nearly the same strat for killing them. That is just the way for your average/above-average gamers to beat the boss. That's not what we all loved Elden Ring for. Sure, Malenia culled a lot of builds (especially shields), but when we each finished her, we had several different builds. If FromSoft wants to make a game around that, then go ahead, but don't attach it to Elden Ring and expect me to like it. You mention yourself how much variety there is in great runes and spells and everything, but that doesn't matter as much if you are having to spend what feels like 10-30s just to get in two swings of a katana. ESPECIALLY now that it seems bosses are tuned to aggro players over summons (particularly mimic tear) way more than in base game, often retargeting to the player mid combo.
If I look at Lies of P, or even adjacent genres such as Monster Hunter, I see ways that games can preserve build diversity, and still be challenging without egregious levels of boss attack spam, combined with AOE spam, and magic spam. Yes none of those individual components are new to From Software, but never has it been so prevalent for nearly EVERY boss in a group of content. Personally, my take away from the DLC is that I judged Lies of P too harshly for some of it's more offensive bosses, and that I should go replay Sekiro and see if a game that actually allows you to counter boss aggression is actually something I like.
I think people, because game devs have all tried to copy or merge dark souls concepts into their own games, have possibly burnt people out, so when this comes out and is punishing, the average player that enjoys this stuff felt like it was suddenly unenjoyable.
The reason DLC shouldnt be Goty is simple. It's giving a game that already had its chance on release, a second chance, while against contenders on their first chance. Its not fair, period. If you allow this, then you should also allow live service to be Goty for having a really good season.....but that would obviously be dumb.
I get what you're saying, but nothing I've played compares to Shadow of the Erdtree this year. It feels like a sequel. I think it does enough to be considered separate from the base game. Its just so damn good.
@Zoombeanie132 then they should have released it as a standalone entry. Just because it's really good doesn't mean it should be considered as a GOTY while being DLC. Just because a short film is good doesn't mean it can win an Oscar for best feature film.
Ralph had me shook when he admitted to not watching The Thing.😂
Dark Souls 3 Cinders mod had the best difficulty options, loved choosing to add more enemy spawns. Also had amazing late game progression and optional enemies/ bosses.
I REFUSE to believe that Lucy beat Rellana in two tries UNTIL I SEE VIDEO PROOF
Shoutout to Quelaag!
What SkillUp said with the damage output of bosses even with a decent Scadutree level, is my problem exactly. It's not the aggression of these bossses alone, it's their aggression and damage COMBINED, that I have an issue with.
I've already beaten the DLC, before the buff to the early Scadutree levels as well, but sometimes it just wasn't as fun to get three shot, when I was still learning the boss' moveset. And when they have such long combos and are this aggressive, it makes learning them much harder and more frustrating than it needs to be, because I don't even get an opportunity to SEE the entire combo and moveset before dying. So I retry half of the combo, only to die to the latter half I don't know yet, because I'm getting like 3 shot.
It's not the worst thing in the world, but I've found it way more tedious than the base game. I can't agree that base Elden Ring was very close in terms of damage and boss aggression - it wasn't. It was much more manageable, the balance of hard hitting and slower bosses against faster but less powerful was much better imo. Even Maliketh, which is one of the most agile, mobile and hard-hitting bosses, has actually very generous openings.
What likely happened was you explored a lot more in the base game. If you tackle the base game bosses while being undergeared you will also be taking WAY more damage. I've been exploring every inch of the DLC, and the only boss I had even a bit of difficulty with is the Dancing Lion. In fact I remember very similar complaints from some people for the base game when it released, due to them rushing through things. Pretty much every single boss in the entire game will one shot you if you are not geared to take them on.
I was being 2 shoted as well, but that was for me at least, due to to not engaging with any mechanic with the game. For example, I never used a defensive talisman in my life, or used the mixed drink (I forgot the name) other than to heal half my health, and to get that bubble that protects one attack, so yeah my fault entirely, after using the talisman, the drink, and using the crab thing that dimishes the physical damage, I was getting resonal damage, and made my playtroigh wayyy better, except for the final boss, that one is bullshit.
You aren't equipping the right damage negation talismans, physik tears or armour to match the boss you are fighting then
As someone who is playing the base game at the same time as the dlc, the base game is super easy. Whenever I warp to it I feel I am resting.
Also dlc rewards min maxing in regards to defense. Do it.
@@truedps8fuck off man. The dlc doesn't give you gear to balance things, it gives you scadutree blessings which just make the game blatantly easier. Saying you need to explore every inch of the dlc for the bosses to not be a complete pain in the ass is the problem. Rellana is a nonsense simulator and makes melania seem sane. Even let me solo her used summons and magic against her bc she was so bullshit.
I think my video game bestie would be Guybrush Threepwood. Funny, adventurous, not above the occasional mug o' grog. He's a highly under rated character, no one ever campaigns for him to be in Smash or anything.
And, man, 2019 was a great year for emotionally impactful games. Outer Wilds and Disco Elysium are both masterpieces.
I am only about 10 hours into the ER DLC and thought it was hard but not crazy before the nerf, but had only beaten the lion so far
They haven't nerfed anything. They just buffed the blessings.
Great one guys as always.
Never, would I have guessed how this podcast started out lmfao, only ten minutes in. 😂
I wore glasses for years because I was told I needed them as a teenager and in my later 20s I went for a checkup and they said my eyesight was literally perfect and it would be unethical of them to push a new prescription on me
IMO the level design and exploration of Shadow of the Erdtree is a big progress in relation to the base game! The verticality reminds me alot of the original Dark Souls. They nailed it!
Lucy you can just get frames with clear lenses if you like!
45:46 When you're discussing something and the other person says something you strongly disagree with, but you gotta keep the manners
There are a lot of things to love about Soulsborne games, from their gorgeously rendered worlds to thrilling combat. Difficulty is just one part of them, and honestly, it's my least favorite part.
When Ralph one time said Covid instead of "the rona" I was a bit disappointed.
Out of curiosity, am I the only one that considers the boss fights to be the least enjoyable part of Fromsoft games? I love immersing myself in their fascinating worlds and exploring and finding every secret. I love learning the levels (less applicable with Elden Ring, sadly) and figuring out how best to navigate the threats present. The boss fights always feel like frustrating roadblocks pausing me from doing what I actual enjoy in these games. That's not to say that I don't want boss battles, but super difficult boss fights are not what I enjoy about these games.
Regarding the deflecting hardtear, I really think this should've been a core mechanic built into the game from the start. It allows you to engage with bosses more during their combos and feels so satisfying and fluid. And since you don't need a shield to do it, most builds would be able to engage with it.
Yeah it should've been an expansion on the guard counter mechanic
I mean, sure there are options to break the game, but I also feel like most weapons should be able to stand on their own without summons. If half of the bosses are reducing a weapon's moveset to a single light attack/ jump attack, I don't think it's really accommodating that weapon. There's a pretty big difference between hammering a boss with a meaty charged heavy attack, and spamming jump attacks like a grasshopper. It's just pretty saddening not being able to see all the cool movesets, and dampens the fantasy of that weapon.
I get that there will always be some weapons left in the dust, like the whip in dark souls 1. It just feels like a lot of weapons were left behind this time.
i dont think my backlog will ever allow me to play Erdtree until at least 2030
Damn I thought I recognized Mitchell’s voice! He did a walkthrough many years ago of the original dark souls for gamefront and I remember watching it when I couldn’t find my way out of firelink shrine. What a throwback! I just did a google deep dive to find those old videos!
It's when frustration factor takes over the fun factor for me.
I think final fantasy 16 did the best job with the difficulty modes by using certain rings you can wear with certain buffs
Dang, still none of them played Nine Sols
Even before the cast of this new superman, I thought several times, skill up would be an amazing superman. Don't know why.
Only problem with the dlc is not being able to use the internet without major surprises spoiled
I feel like all this difficulty talk is missing the real issue with the DLC. It’s a big, expansive, beautiful space to explore, with frick all to find. So many times I found myself saying “why is this here, there’s nothing to find”. When you do, it’s never worth it usually, just some common crafting materials.
That was my only major non-technical gripe with the dlc as well. Everything else I enjoyed for the most part, but the areas outside of the 2nd major legacy dungeon (which did feel very well planned out and designed, one of my favorite "levels" in a souls game ever now) felt underbaked, like the dev time to make the areas "open world" was more than they expected and as such had less time to actually fill in the areas with stuff.
The problem with Elden Ring is that there's no reward for exploration unlike Tears of the Kingdom where you'll use the items you pick up. Fromsoft really butchered the open world of this game sadly.
That's an issue with even the main game, exploring rarely ever feels worth it
@@ClipperFanW lmao no. TotK is the most empty, boring, lifeless open world in gaming where nothing you find matters at all.
@@ClipperFanWa shame people think this way feel sorry for y’all tbh
I got 100% in base game and beat all the bosses that you can't use a summon for, but a boss I'm able to summon for I'll use it as I find it fun to do that, back in older games you needed to summon an npc for some quest lines. I don't get the stubbornness of some people. If you want to play without using those things, great. But don't complain it's too hard when the game has those tools available.
Just that intro alone earned a like, that was funny as hell
My only difficulty gripe is Final Boss Person. I have beaten every FROM game multiple times, never had a complaint about the difficulty and boss design. Always felt completely fair and like if I made a mistake it was my fault. Nameless King, Kalameet, Alonne, Burnt Ivory King, Midir, etc. But with Malenia and Final Boss Person, I feel like there is just no way to stop from getting deleted that isn't just getting lucky. The bosses are very difficult to read, and have attacks that feel unfair even to me. I can't imagine how someone whose first souls game is Elden Ring fares. Malenia can use waterfowl dance 5 times a fight or 0, and she has attacks that come out in like 14 frames that instantly give her infinite stagger resist. Similar situation with Final Boss Person, there are certain attacks that are just too unforgiving to be fun. The biggest problem is the readability, I think. It feels inconsistent, and I always find myself thinking "What could I have possibly done to survive that situation?" And the answer I come up with is "Get better luck" because I can't think of what to do to improve.
Watch some RL1 videos if you're struggling to learn the movesets.
40:50 Problem is…There’s no middleground like in DS3 or Bloodborne, where some endgame bosses were really difficult but also fair - with ER it’s either ridiculous or ridiculously easy
I’m super conflicted about the difficulty scaling of this expansion. Overall I think Shadow of the Erdtree is very good, but I definitely have some criticisms.
In my mind, a big part of what makes open world game design interesting is that the cool stuff (gear, spells, general upgrades, quests etc) is entirely missable - it means that the world itself shapes the way you play. Shadow of the Erdtree (Elden Ring in general, honestly) definitely follows this philosophy, and so all players have played through the game very differently to each other. I think that’s awesome! But in my opinion, this system falls apart when the missable items are also REQUIRED to progress through the DLC, and unfortunately Scadutree fragments are entirely missable and absolutely essential items; the difference between fighting Relanna at +2 versus at even +6 is crazy.
Scadutree fragments as an upgrade system is very clearly influenced by the upgrade system in Sekiro, whereby prayerbeads and memories are exchanged for flat increases to vitality and attack power, respectively. This is a system that works in Sekiro because the game is linear by design, meaning you will always be at the appropriate level for a boss when you arrive there. The problem with transferring this system over to an open-world game like Elden Ring is that it means that, if a player didn’t crawl through every corner of the map available to them to get all the Scadutree fragments, they’re going to be far weaker than they should be. And this sucks, because again, what makes exploration cool in these games is that it’s optional! If you don’t want to go through a certain zone, you shouldn’t have to.
And honestly Scadutree fragments being mandatory, missable items would be totally fine if there was a surplus of them on the map (I.e. you didn’t need to find every single fragment available throughout the whole expansion to reach max level). In fact, in the base game they already had this figured out - there are more golden seeds and sacred tears available than you actually need to max out your flasks. That system worked great, because again, it didn’t punish you for not exploring (or punishing you for exploring the wrong way).
In a recent patch, they adjusted the scaling on the fragments, making all levels below +10 stronger, and levels above +10 a bit weaker. I think this is a good change, but it still doesn’t address the core issue imo. I know balancing this expansion must’ve been so difficult given the amount of variables a player can interface with in this game, but I wish the fragment system was handled a bit better.
My other complain (though a far more subjective one) is that the balancing for spirit ashes feels a bit off for the DLC bosses. The problem I’m encountering is that using spirit ashes trivialises these bosses too much, but not using them makes the bosses faaaar too punishing. The new combos that these DLC bosses put out are crazy difficult to deal with by yourself, and there’s almost no time for reprieve between them. So, obviously, the game is nudging you towards using spirit summons to distract the opponent. But if you do that, the boss becomes so easy to continuously stagger and run away from. For me personally, it means that bosses don’t alway feel very satisfying to beat. I remember in the base game when I finally beat Malenia it felt incredible. When I beat the final boss of this expansion I was just relieved to be done with it.