The INHUMANE art of hooking
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- Опубліковано 4 вер 2024
- This video discusses the various origins of no gi grappling and its relationship with the Gi.
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Catch Wrestling lives up to its name The Violent art.
the most silly name for a martial art but it is the most brutal art.
Life isn't a sport, not every technique is meant for sport, nor can every situation can end in concession. I was taught neck locks were preferable to strangleholds, because they took less time, so in Wrestling stranglehold holds were banned before neckcranks. The basic strategy is slam them on their head then break their neck when using Wrestling as a war fighting skill.
To be fair, not everything needs to be life or dead either.
I never used a neck lock, but if a Judoka is proficient in shimi-waza you might find yourself unconscious before you know!
@@prvtthd401when it does, you'd better know how.
LMAO. "Break the neck, walk away" and then let me guess....stomp the groin? 😂😂😂
@@glowindark64 Don't forget to re-stomp.
A weird thing in martial arts is we say "self defense" a lot when a lot of these arts had nothing to do with defending yourself. A lot of them were made for jacking people up, or just straight up killing them. Some arts were made for warriors to be better at killing the enemies of the king, and survival was secondary. Others were primarily forms of physical fitness. Others made for performance in either stage or gladiatorial contexts, and others were actually self defense in the idea that the practitioner had a day job and just needed to be a shepherd or something and not be attacked by bandits.
there is no art of self defense, it is just violence used for ones protection. anything no matter how brutal may be self defense if used that way
Yes, the idea of "The Martial Arts" is totally false. There are many different schools that have developed for very different purposes. Most of the southern Chinese boxing schools were originally developed for matches on an elevated platform of a certain size (although a few were altered to train rebels during the Boxer Rebellion) while others were actually choreographed fight scenes used in "boat opera" plays. Japanese Karate-Do has been drastically changed from its original forms to be sport or meditation, just as Tai Chi is, in most places, no longer a throwing art but a kind of yoga. Even modern Muay Thai is quite different from its original form. And so on.
@@GeneralKitten There can be art in any skilled application of technique.
@@vids595 my point isnt that its not an art, its just the art of violence. Self defense is an application of the art of violence. Hope that clears it up
Its nice to see someone give respect to CACC. I practice catch and my coach is probably one the few that can still do it. A lot of the techniques in catch come in levels of severity (1-3) 1 being the least harmful 3 being complete destruction. A lot of the moves that are quick cannot be done slowly and controlled due to the nature of the move.
3:41 "Grip and Rip...Snap No Tap" is my new mantra 😑⛩
Oooh! Everybody better run from this tough guy!
Love your work chadi as a catch wrestler thanks for doing your part to keep real wrestling 🤼♂️ alive
🙇🏻♂️
I can't understand why catch is less popular than bjj... who wouldn't want to spar with those moves???
I think there aren't as many schools across the country. I habeb lived in a few states and never come across it. It is great stuff for sure.
I love how the IJF bans shoulder locks… but makes an exception for the Ude Garami (both Kimura and Americana) by insisting that it targets the ELBOW.
LOL
Thank you for this video, Chadi !
It’s always very interesting to see differences between different forms of wrestling : Catch wrestling, Classical french wrestling, Judo, etc…
Merci bien 🙇🏻♂️
Tony is into the self defense aspect of catch wrestling that's why he demonstrates like that. It's for anyone that wants to learn that aspect of submission grappling.
The Uda Garami from Judo is called an Americana in BJJ. Kimora is the opposite position with the opponents palm on the mat hand towards the hips. Absolutely great video. I’m a purple belt and n BJJ and about 2 yrs of judo. Man these submissions are brutal. I’m all about protecting my training partners. I all about slow, methodical, technical, and controlled. These spazzy type movements make me nervous.
Shuttup
Intended for Self defense in a deadly threat situation, not Judo competition at least that's my take on this.
This is perfect for the evil heel American wrestler in Anime
Ude Garami does get spammed a lot but it's also how I beat my first black belt 🤷♂️ gotta love it
Nice!
The simpler and more reliable the better.
That switch on the americana is beautiful. It’s almost the same concept of the mir lock but on the far side.
I've watched a couple of those videos and the guy who taught him was an old carnival wrestler. Hooking is very much a carni style where they would have challenge matches in the different towns they would visit. Hooking was reserved for the guys who fought dirty or guys with high skills. That's the legend anyway.
It's called catch wrestling
@wingoreviewsboxingandmma3667 I'm aware, but for simplicity, I was just referring to the "style" of catch that flourished in and around carnival circuits. Just as folk style is a form of catch without submissions, hooking was a method of catch with the intent of pain or maiming the opponent.
If I remember correctly, in the old carnival days they had Workers, Shooters and Hookers. Workers were basically what evolved into pro wrestling. The main thing that the public paid for and they put on a good show. A shoot was an actual match, and where terms like "shootfighting" came from. The Hooks were for when trouble maker from the audience showed up and was there to make trouble, challenging the wrestlers etc. Then a Hooker would be used to break the person in really awful ways, suddenly and decisively, and no one would dare call the show "fake" for the rest of the stay in town.
@@7woundsfist I'm not sure whether Tony cecchine was actually taught by Stanley radwan as there's no evidence. He seems like he learned most of his techniques from videos, magazines and attending seminars
@@JustSomeGuy69420like you would ignore Roy Wood of Snake Pit Wigan who learned from Billy Riley or even John Strickland who learned from two carny guys likes Billy Wicks (Farmer Burns lineage) and Dick Cardinal?
This was a good breakdown in why newaza is just as dangerous as tachi waza or any technique involved in judo or jujutsu or in wrestling. My old jujutsu instructor if he was in fights he would smash what ever limb he got a hold off as that is the orignal purpose of joint locks, they were for combat orignally before they were made safer for sport. Oh and the gobshite fraternitas 5117 commented even saying traditional jujutsu is sad when it's saved my ass countless times over the years he's a keyboard warrior who's never faced real combat that's not in the cage or ring. The streets are the total opposite and you can get killed if your not careful
that is the completely incorrect interpretation. well done!
@@fraternitas5117 did I ask your opinion i gave my interpretation and its not wrong by.a longshot been studying japanese jujutsu for 23 years not bjj. , gyaku are not sport orientated it's to destroy the limbs that's it, George kirby explains hooking and why its a better grip for applying joint locks. It's not a technique it's just a trick to apply better leverage so you can force a joint beyond it's range of motion to snap the limb, eg the kimura a very good example and the guy hooks his forearm to apply a better. The lock down in 10th planet jiujitsu is another example it's the same pretty much wrecks the tedonds on the foot and can damage the knee joint, hooking has been around for for centuries it's not modern at all. It's joint dampening and as I stated gyaku are to beak a limb that's it
@@niledunn4641 Sad! Tony teaches a superior kimura too.
It is one of the things that turns me off with BJJ. I mean it's a great system and all but any immature guy who looses his cool can easily hurt you. I love to train, but I love to be safe equally so I can keep training 🔥🔥
Wonderful video as always! Thank you Sensei
From a self defense , life or death situation I can understand the mechanics of using these techniques for total incapacitation… I believe these still need to be “ safely “
Practiced …
And in a life and death situation crippeling someone is still more humane than killing a person.
@@amuthi1is it though?
That's like arguing that batman's rule to not kill is better than the amount of brain damage, and life altering injuries that batman give the criminals he fights.
If you saw an animal at the vet, and it looked like it was in so much pain, and you asked the vet and the vet said: "Yeah, the animal was heavily abused, due to the amount of physical abuse it received it's nerves constantly send the message that it's in severe pain, even when nothing it touching it."
Would you not argue that it's better to use euthanasia and spare the animal an incredibly painful existence than to let it continue to suffer?
Or do you find leaving that poor animal to suffer for the rest of its days humane and rightous?
Keeping your attacker alive is not a matter of whether or not it's "humane", it is both a matter of the criminal facing justice in a court of law, and the use of proportional force to end the threat.
@@amuthi1I can see where that could possibly go wrong in the courts. Most people have some sense of what a punch or kick could do to someone. But ask someone how they would go about crippling someone and they’d look at you like a madman. They may think you took your time to inflict so much damage and view you as the aggressor.
@@amuthi1But I’d still prefer to have the skills to choose.
@@DeathxThexKid100depends on the level of crippling. Paralyzation you have a plausible argument but a weak arm that healed wrong may be more humane. It’s a bit of a spectrum
I've done catch wrestling, learned the art of hooking and its a style of grappling that is reserved for the very few. And what I mean by that is not so much that you have to be an elite grappler but much more so that you have to be a HIGHLY trusting participant of this sport. If you're someone who doesn't know how to control their strength, power, emotions, doesn't know their own strength, has an inflated ego, STAY away from this. Because the holds you learn can seriously injure people in training and if you use it in self defense, you can seriously cause some damage.
Again, when it comes to training I feel its REQUIRED that you are someone that is safe to train with.
As always Chadi san, great content. I find it amusing that people have to consider legal ramifications in a self defense situation. So some idiot decides to threaten violence on me or my family, and now I’m suppose to worry about his well being? And as far as the “hooking” in Catch Wrestling, the offender should be grateful that all he received was a dislocation or broken bone. However I do agree with you that those techniques can’t be put in sport or dojo training but for anybody studying Judo, Catch, Karate, Sivate, etc, they should know how to apply them. Just an opinion. In all the violence I’ve seen in over 50 years in NYC I’ve never seen the violent offender worried about the welfare of the victims.🤔🇺🇸
I can answer in legal terms but based on brazilian laws and decisions, not USA (I'm a brazilian lawyer), what matters is you act with the purpose of self (or others) defense and proportionally. It's not how much you damage (or if you kill with weapons), but how proportional it was to your perceived risk.
That makes the whole situation VERY subjective. I.E. a small elderly person or kid could use a LOT more lethality than a stronger men who had control over the criminal and decided to keep breaking joints, and it might be ok to shoot someone on the back of the head if that person has someone at gunpoint, etc.
That said, I know a few judges, and not a single one would consider a single break or joint damage excess force from a violent crime victim to protect himself unless there is irrefutable proof it was caused after the situation was secure and in bad faith. Even allowing your assailant to get up and run can be exceedingly dangerous to expect from the victim in a real crime scene, you don't know if he has a hidden gun, a guy waiting nearby to gang up on you, etc.
Me, I'd take the risk. At very least guarantee I can run faster and cannot be punched or grabbed anymore before let go.
NYC enables criminals and punishes individuals and businesses owners for protecting themselves. I'm in Brooklyn and this city has gotten increasingly worse, cops and the law be damned. Self defense in its honest form is the protection of self by any means necessary. The law can get you prosecuted or let go by using the same arm lock on an individual but difference being skin color. IE: if your whyte and defend yourself you get prosecuted for a hate crime. If your a privileged minority your out without bail the same or next day.
Thanks for highlighting and comparing Tony's techniques. We should get you on his podcast!
I know it might seem harsh to break a bone or dislocate a joint in a self-defense situation, but in some ways it's safer than knocking someone out or choking them to the point of unconsciousness. I've never heard of someone dying from an armlock or leglock no matter how painful or damaging.
Interesting point. Never thought of it that way.
Tuesday September 12,2023 1841hrs
I have that DVD series of Tony Cecchine called THE LOST ART OF HOOKING.
I bought it 20 years ago, and it's a 10 Volume set.
It's a question of emphasis for me, up to a point. In Judo we don't even have as much time to work on the ground as we used to, which means our competition submissions tend to be more straightforward/ less elaborate than BJJ's, and are obviously limited by the ruleset - plus Kano was explicit about "sportsmanship" and the pedagogy that comes with it, rather than the old ju jutsu tendency to smash anything you can get hold of. There's plenty of Judo newaza-applicable stuff in CACC/ freestyle and BJJ as you'd expect, just depends how you use & integrate it (see amongst others M Kimura, Travis Stevens, Satoshi Ishii, Gene LeBell and any number of contemporary judoka).
I've never seen the Americana twist grip at the wrist as shown at 3:20, I will definitely be trying this.
The counter is to make a fist. Once your partner learns this, it’s very difficult to land a twist.
Bro be careful not to destroy your training partners this is a brutal catch technique
Always so informative!!
Also, I agree that hurting another competitor unneccessarily is bad form.
100%
Especially from his point of view.
NOT ON THE STREETS MAN! NOT ON THE STREETS!!! STREETS ARE DIFFERENT MAN! Sorry, just had to imitate some of the other tough guy commentators who apparently have life and death fights on "the streets" every other day.
The big thing about hooking is you don't give the person a chance to escape before the "submission" destroys things.
It has it's place like for some of the no tap type of people at NAGA, If you're caught just tap be honest. But noooooooo they are counting on you NOT being willing to tear their stuff up, so make them pay.
It's important to keep in mind that catch wrestlers were traveling entertainers with the carnivals and later thr territories long ago. People believed they were seeing real contests, and many a drunk local toughs would try the wrestler outside of the show. The worst thing possible was to get your ass kicked by a mark. So techniques had to absolutely maim these challengers as fast as possible. One, so you didn't lose your means to make an income because now everyobe thinks you're a fake (and get hurt). Two, the locals will hear about how their town tough guy was wrecked by these traveling wrestlers so everyone is going to want to see.
I used that scarf hold leg americana in bjj.
It works pretty well.
double wrist lock
Great video.
Cha-Keen-ee ..we had a dude that trained with him for quiet a long while...Our guy was on a high Level as a fighter. Tony's way of teaching was crap! catch as catch can, shoot wrestling- some called it, until it was Bart Vale I believe, who copywrited that name, so Catch Wrestling, hook an shoot, Hook shooting etc...blah blah blah this guys attitude sucked....probably still does. Sorry Chadi the techniques... crappy shin locks that (don't get me wrong cause pain) most would tap to...but don't work against a seasoned fighter...for instance the "the toe grab/shin lock"...hurts like a B...due to it's between the calf muscle and shin bone, and could even break the ankle...but don't tap due to "pain panic" it's a Chess Match...keep your head, an slip(pull/push) the elbow off the shin, while controlling the neck, or the arm if you have it under hooked, and Eureka! You have the Rear Naked(Choke) due to it's a last ditch effort to keep from getting choked out. 😂...no, really it was a disservice to the sport of Grappling, as guys like him were using their students for financial gain, while still learning themselves, as grappling dummies, not just physically...I believe in ending the fight Quickly, and yes in so many ways, you train like you fight etc ..etc...but this guy had no class imo...we still got people today hobbling around on a cane because of bad instructors....needing knee, and shoulder surgeries because of this crap training,, and crap attitudes, that the Submission World itself went through for a season, before everything in the fight world blew up, and allot of folks were weeded out in it's early years...take care folks. Names aside...that shoulder crank at the end, some taught to totally Scissor, or pass the legs closely by the other, quickly switching the leg positioning while rotating the hips "Ripping the shoulder out entirely." to use the "ole lingo." Be safe an train hard, but don't pay good money to end up permanently injured, due to an idiot. God Bless.
Nice, I thought I was the only one who wasn't convinced by the stuff shown in the video
@@Mollumbus nice to know I wasn't by myself. Lol
When money is at stake, the product is refined. Nothing refined submission arts like the American Carny wrestlers (Tony's lineage). They had to remove the doubt. I'm working my way through his "lost art of hooking" series, and it's very eye opening. It makes modern bjj seem so soft by comparison.
Well done in every sense of the word well said
Educational baby!
excellent teaching.....thanks
Judo is so awesome
Shin locks are the worst. You can snap a leg in half with little effort and you can find it in a lot of position. Most people don’t even know it exists.
I know you probably know this but i think calf slicer is so dangerous because it can explode the knees
Turning the palm down makes Kimura completely and totally viable and nobody teaches it. I have never understood why.
A master can pin your palm to his own chest and make it so that you cannot withstand what they do, when pins are applied to fragile joints like hands and wrists, the desire to fight goes right out of the window, and things can cool off, or reset.
It's subjects like these that separate the sport pugilistics from the martial arts.
5:02 nice in BJJ they would probably consider it like knee barring though because of the knee pressure.
O that kind of 'Hooking' ... i thought you where going to talk about prostitutes ....
The most important thing in this video, is martial arts should be practiced with too hat🎩 and overcoat 💪🏾outstanding. I’m on board
Out of all the submissions that made me want to quit grappling it was most certainly neck cranks...
Hooking looks like a way to take Judo to a life and death situation. Definitely not a competition friendly method.
I prefer this style, a cobra kai type philosophy most martial artists have never been in a street fight where people will kill you, its alot different than fighting a drunk guy at the bar.
Chadi I respectfully disagree with you on this point. The art of Hooking has its roots in combat and has retain many of its martial techniques design to dislocate or cripple an opponent. As Judo once did; however, Judo or Jujutsu over many decades become more of martial sport in some respects. No pun intended Chadi. Hooking remains more less the same as it was once practice nearly hundred years ago.The approach and application is slightly different. We should have a bit of variety in our grappling arts. I still enjoyed your video lecture and I look forward to your next video presentation. God bless you and family!
Thank you for your comment, I appreciated the counter argument 🙇🏻♂️
@@Chadi you are welcome and I appreciate your scholarly approach, brilliant video lectures you produced, and the combat wisdom you dispense.
Kano explicitly made Judo into a "safe" system that could be practiced competitively without doing undue harm to the opponent.
Fatality🤔
"Hooking" is exactly what you want to do for self defense. I mean are you not going to use any throw that would score ippon in self defense, because that's more dangerous than destroying a joint.
I’m not too knowledgeable about this stuff, but is hooking essentially catch wrestling?
It's too bad that so many techniques have been purposefully abandoned and discarded. What a shame.
what was that move at 0:47?
Bring back the extreme
I feel bad for my next grappling partner.
من فضلك، ضع مقاطع صوتية باللغة العربية. وشكراً لك ❤
Kimura Is a dislocating shoulder move
Not quite. It is an over rotation of the shoulder joint, extreme internal rotation with the arm in the abducted position specifically.
To dislocate the shoulder, additional action is required. Wedging your calf/shin in their armpit, and closing their arm over it etc, would be an excellent way to do just this. Sounds like a hooking move honestly
:35 second mark, that “armbar” wouldn’t work on anyone, terrible technique they obviously never tested it out in live sparing.
are these techniques explicitely forbidden in BJJ? Or is it just a silent consent not to use them?
I think it depends on the gym, also belt level. Usually more violent techniques are reserved for higher belt levels
The meta of BJJ may also make these techniques different in application than in wrestling, Sambo etc. Ruleset and sport really changes a lot
do you know any mma or BJJ fight on the larger stage where one of these was applied?@@Chiaroscuro98
What is this catch wrestling video you're showing?
This is ( The Lost Art Of Hooking) by Tony Cecchine..from TRS..it is several years old..good inst..in my opinion
Judo is a sport, you are comparing a combat sport to a martial art.
Judo is the sport ! so of course there is no hooking gouging biting scratching neck locks ect,..
If you want to learn judo go down the street.
If you're wanting to learn to fight go down the street.
If you're here to learn and understand the art of Jiu-Jitsu than this may be the school for you.
There is no such thing as Catch Wrestling with submissions it doesn't exist!
This modern ruleset is just a version of All in Wrestling which did have a win via pin, submission or knockout.
Here's a reference from the authority on the true history of Catch As Catch Can wrestling Ruslan Pashayev:
"What nowadays is known as "submissions" was something that was unknown in the Western world's wrestling culture. There was no such thing in Western European and North American tradition as winning a wrestling match on submission. The wrestling matches were either won on actual throws or falls of some kind, or on maintaining the on-top or mount position (pre-historical pinfall). The knowledge of what would qualify as submission holds was limited to the holds of Nelson family (holds which put pressure on the neck of defensive wrestler making him stop any resistance), and very basic chokes like "vice-hold", or "throttling" when attacker puts both his hands on his opponent's throat and strangles him thus making him quit. Those holds were an essential part of self-defense instruction all over Western Europe since Middle Ages. The headlocks weren't seen as any kind of submission holds, but were solely used for throwing opponent down most commonly by "giving him hip" or by "giving him back". Nelsons were widely utilized in both Greco-roman (French) wrestling and in Lancashire catch-as-catch-can wrestling for one single purpose that of turning opponent onto his both shoulders."
Link to the article I just quoted from:
www.wrestling-titles.com/europe/pashayev/pioneers-catch.html
Russians never lie, they're renown for their honesty. (I'm being sarcastic)
Farmer Burns was an 1800s American submission catch wrestling champion.
He banned choke holds from American wrestling after a man died from one.
@@SoldierDrew
Not Russian
Ous
Amazing
🤢
Still, great video!
Edit: 6:45 - If you break yourself trying to buggy choke someone, you're a clown and you deserved it. 😆
"its a little too much for me" its not a sport move its a self defense move as Tony explains in the series.
I'd argue if you know how to do a submission you can do a "hook." Since all it seems to be is just cranking a sub hard and fast with the intent to injure someone. It's not a unique move in itself
That forearm break is not a joint lock. There is no related submission. It's simply putting a fulcrum into the middle of the bone and working the lever until it snaps in half. It doesn't stress a joint beyond its range of motion y'know
@@SenraethX do you think that would actually work? Maybe on some people... Skinny guys
@@user-nb8dm1gz2tI feel it would work. It depends on the bone (ulna is smaller than the radius, so it's a better target in the forearm), the position of the fulcrum, and more strength helps of course. Leverage is still the most important thing, which can be difficult if you're the smaller person
Ahhhh “Hooking”… the oldest profession! 😂
I see what you did there.
too much too dangerous I agree
the first hold you showed is an americana not a kimura
ouch, just watching
Judo is pretty soft, tbh.
What is ur name it’s crazyyyy