WinWing Orion 2 Modular Joystick Base and Kit Review
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- Looking at the Modular Orion 2 and it's Spring / Cam / Damping kit expansion. Perfect for Helicopters, jets and highly customisable to your liking!
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First impressions / comparison : • WinWing Orion 2 Modula...
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Appreciate the level of detail and candour in your reviews Mr Kite. Thank you.
Thanks, Phantom453
Great review! After seeing your initial impression video, I pulled the trigger. I’m into week 3 of having the Orion 2 and F-16EX grip and I’m loving it so far.
I haven’t swapped out any of the cans or springs as Im finding the stock set up works wonders for me for now.
Thanks Red Kite!
My stock stick seems really loose. Like it takes no force at all to move the stick. And it makes it harder for me to control the F-16. I wonder if my stick wasn't setup right?
On the Winwing site, they mention getting two cam/spring kits to have doubling the force. This is in the description for the kit: "You need to purchase this package twice for doubling the force on each axis".
Thx! I got mine just the other day. First flights already show its an improvement over my beloved thrustmaster HOTAS in many aspects.
One of these day's I'll be able to afford a stick like this. It's crazy the amount of customization and modifications available today as opposed to 10 years ago.
So many choices on hardware provider too!
Same here. I've been eye balling The F-16 stick since it came out, but i can never save enough to get one XD. They are priced very competitively as well. The base model isn't much more expensive than VKB's entry level NXT.
I just got mine today and HOLY CRAP, played warthunder, star citizen, DCS, ALL OF THEM were SO MUCH better to play and do precise manoeuvres than with my X52 stick… cams are just such a big upgrade over the old ball and spring systems and make the older systems feel more like a switch than a joystick!! CANNOT reccomend it enough!
Yall would be better off with a virpil or a vkb at this point, the winwing is terrible and the deadzone is insane, i wasted my money im selling it now with the extension, the cams and dampers also
@@nick-dm3if I think you’ve just had a bad one off experience? I don’t mean to nullify your opinion because everything is subjective person to person but honestly I’ve had zero issue with the WinWing joystick and it’s dead zone was nonexistent to me? I could tune it enough that it wasn’t sensitive to every knock but sesitive enough to fly with micro precision in formation.
It may not be to the exact same quality of the VKB and Virgil sticks but at the same time… it does cost half the price so I feel for those like me who are looking to step up from ball and spring systems but don’t have £400 for just a joystick, it’s a good and affordable upgrade.
And to those that say just save up… sometimes there are other scenarios meaning that you prolly won’t be able to get that extra money for quite some time… IE being a student about to go into uni and having fuck all money
Excellent review
Look solid, metal everywhere, really look nice
I just picked up this. Using the stick extension, I have the SC-1S and weakest springs, seems good to me.
Greatly appreciate your reviews, between your vids and the Grim Reapers vids, I decided to purchase the Winwing Orion 2 HOTAS Max. Couldn't be happier...the wife isn't very happy though :(
Great follow up. I am concerned about the damper life after constant wear during helo use. I confirmed with WW they do not sell the dampers or other parts separately. Virpil is coming out with a new upgraded T-50CMx base with the dry clutch dampers and spring adjustment all external without having to open the unit. And Virpil is known to sell parts separately so that is another option coming in this wonderfully growing & competitive market. We are getting spoiled! Kudos to WW for their modular design! 👍
I'm really interested to see how Virpil get on with their new design!
They do sell a dampening kit separately with 52 different combinations.
Most gamers don't understand concept of Force Trim Release, that most sophisticated helos use, for example H145 in mfs. Trim Release is pushed for pick-up, then it is held and released later for hands off and new reference numbers are acquired and cyclic head stays in postion where you "button realease" TR. All hands on flying is done with TR button pressed. I think Winwing is def on right track with hybrid. The outer extents of cyclic box/throw look spungy and there seems to be a little stiction around center. If they can overcome this they definitely have a winner, for fixed wing and helos.
They could lighten the head weight for example. Static center springs on regular joysticks make for an awkward experience in helos. Work great in fixed wing tho. Modular head system awesome. Bout time someone made a hybrid joystick.
I use the Virpil wr brd base and thrust master warthog stick and throttle and thrust master hornet stick and they are definitely worth the money the precision of flying and air to air refueling is outstanding
High end sticks are such a boon for precise flying, well worth the investment for regular simmers, whichever the brand
there is still one issue with the orion2 stick that they didn't fix but seems to be a major issue with a lot of the orion sticks out there and started with the original orion stick. there is a grey metal collet on the base, underneath the rubber ( or in the case of the original fake leather) cover that connects the stick retaining assemble to the cam and pitch assembly, with an internal windage. If you have a heavy grip like I do (especially in a gun fight). The collet will twist loose and you have to take the entire thing apart to tighten it back down. There are many answers to this issue, one being that you can put some blue lock-tight on it, to keep it from coming loose. In my opinion they should put an allen screw on it so it won't budge. Again this issue originated with the original orion stick and has carried over to the orion 2. I will say that if this keeps happening with my current orion 2, it will go on sale and I will be getting a Virpil
I have the orion1 and the spring that controls roll has broken on mine 2 times in the last 4 or 5 months. I'm on my 3rd spring and winwing is kind enough to send me more but I feel like breaking the spring every 2 months is not sustainable. Wondering if I should upgrade to the orion2 and see if the spring breaks will slow down.
Based on your two reviews of the Orion 2 base, I bought one about a month ago along with their phenomenal A320 flight stick (capt side only), and am very impressed.
The only fault is that the reverse collar does not turn far enough - it's close but not enough - for me to tighten the Allen screw into that "flat spot'.
I had an issue with my collar as well not lining up with the back, for some reason my collar lines up with the front, not a big deal as there is a flat part in the front as well but I don't think it was meant to be that way.
@@reload54 Same here, confused me at first.
I’m still assessing mine. Thrilled with the grip but I think after a long session there seems to be a point when the springs get tired and suddenly there is no resistance for almost half of the 17 degrees in a particular direction. Then you return the next day and it’s just like when I first started using it - only to return to that strangeness again after a couple hours. Nothing serious but it’s unusual.
Hmm I didn't encounter this issue! Does your unit have any grease inside it on the cams?
Thank you very much for this. I have a quesation, where did you get the control box right in front of the stick, between the edge supports of the mounts? Is this something you made yourself or a discontinued product, perhaps? It's really nice and practical. in my view. Thanks again! :)
alweys secur your screws :) it was bit luuse 7:40 but the thing really makes you want to control it, the aluminum metal linkage and the mechanism is cht succeeded!plus the possibilities with the shock are simply gnau what many are certainly looking for.
Hi bud, real time heli pilot here :) You see that Chinese hat on your grip? That's the trim and that's what we also use to hover to avoid over controlling with the cyclic. Try it, it will make your life a lot easier. Cheers ;)
Unfortunately our home sticks don't work the same way! There is no magnetic trim system on them. Force feedback joysticks attempt to emulate the system, and there it's indeed very useful.
I did a video on the topic of how trim works in simulators vs reality to demonstrate some of the problems people have with trim abstraction. You can take a look here:
ua-cam.com/video/q7VoI_sMmyQ/v-deo.html
Does the base unit come with those cams/springs/dampeners shown at 2.07? Is it worth buying the separate kit? The stock Orion 1 base did wonders but i did find it a little stiff towards the end of the throw for a desktop mount. Thanks!
thank you for this review. Very helpful. Can you tell me, you obviiously had the z-axis mod.... Do you still have it and are you willing to part with it?
Okay so now that youve had time to get used to them. would you say that you perfer VKB GF mk3, Virpil CM3 w/ Mongoos or the WinWing? they all seem like good options.
Finally, a dev gets it. I am rw pilot trying to promote hybrid joysticks for years. I think the friction helo system, where cyclic stays where you put it might need some work. Appears spongy at extemeties (probably boot) and stiction around center.
Modular head system awesome. Price range is decent. Loosing the spongy boot might help fo helos, beefing up friction without adding stiction, and lightening head weight could be answer in orion3. I use expensive pro flight trainer helo controls now, but looking for cheap hybrid alternative for students.
WinWing actually do professional simulation hardware /cockpits for civil sims, which is how they got started, before side branching to home combat sims.
@@RedKiteRender Winwing is Communist! Buy better!
Where did you get the z-axis twist module, it's constantly sold out for me.
(and good to know that it works on the orion 2, all official statements I found were that the z-axis module only works for the super libra)
Can make give a pros/ cons compared to the VKB Gunfighter Mk3? Thank you!
Hello! What’s the base mounting screw length for the M4 screws, if using with table mounts?
I have this stick and have ordered the spring kit-so I have been using a Thrustmaster for -a long time- this stick feels so loose to me- should I use hard springs with no center to get close to that -Thrustmaster feel? Thanks, Red!
Looks great , im new at this world of sim, it works on x-plane?
Thank you for the review, After a year of using the FA-18 base and grip what are your thoughts? have been looking at the setup for a long time but I have the Virpil CM2 .
I’d recommend going for thrustmaster’s f/a-18c grip and pairing it with your CM2 joystick base instead if you’re looking for a hornet setup (they’re compatible). The CM2 is a better base, and it’s easier to swap a handle than a whole joystick / base if it’s already mounted.
The WW Orion 2 / hornet is a good combo, but it’s not as nice as virpil’s bases, hard to beat virpil for quality.
@@RedKiteRender Thank you for getting back to me with that, I am going to stay with virpil as you said. Keep up the great content, always enjoy watching your videos.
You've put the drums on backwards. They have two small teeth that engage with the sticks axles.
Hi,
Thanks for the review. I have received the MFSSB version that you mentioned was coming back when you made this video. Sadly, I don't like it. From your experience with the dampers etc, do you think I could turn it back into a "normal" joystick if I bought that kit with all the springs etc?
Jon
The MFSSB kit can be removed, and then you can attach normal cams and springs from the kit if you wish.
This video shows the process for installing the MFSSB
ua-cam.com/video/uRz1z1O_Edk/v-deo.html
To give you an idea of the process, just do it in reverse.
please help (winwing Orion 2 joystick base) I just got done putting the dampers in, and the roll is a lot loose then the pitch, I have tried everything I could think of, I do not have the stick extension so I don't have as much weight, but that should not matter that much
you mentioned stickiness, where do you then suggest to apply grease? is it on the black part on the damper it self where it sits on the metal part?
For the damper itself i'd be very careful with applying grease, a teflon insert would be better between the drum and the inside of the grip.
The cams dont need the grease/lube per say, but it'll make em just that lil bit nicer, you'd apply a small amount to the top of the cam, where the pin rolls over it.
Whatever you do, make sure it's non conductive, don't want to short the circuit boards nearby!
thank you for that comment/comparison of the new Orion2 dampers with the existing Super Libra clutch dampers. Could you be specific in what way does the SL feel better? I have my SL setup with Nyogel 767A on the clutches and that feels nice, even better than the VKB Gunfighter IMHO, but I wonder about Orion2 because of more no-center cam options.
The SL feels better when it comes to restitution. doesn't feel as rough to overcome the initial force. The Orion 2 method is a cheaper solution.
Those split cams on the libra really let it down my opinion!
@@RedKiteRender I see thank you! Agreed on the split cams on the Libra, I have managed to Franken-base mine with Virpil stuff so that I can use their Cosmosim cams, not sure how long that will last. Orion2 seems to have done the same innovation with their no center dual cams, so my effort in modding is a bit wasted now. Except for the SL dampening system.
On your end, if I understand restitution correctly in this context, that can probably be entirely overcome with grease. Of course any grease on the dampener negatively impacts the 'helo' function of leaving the stick put in an arbitrary position, but I think we both refer to the "combo" option of having both a dampened feel and the spring-return cams.
@@Spelljammer1 I would totally expect grease to negatively effect the helo mode indeed, probably resulting in the rubber pushing it slowly to centre.
I've been considering installing some teflon strips in the damper to reduce it for that purpose.
Great Video! I know you had the product free but any idea how much it would cost for shipping and imports to the UK?
Should be 20% for VAT + any delivery 'admin fees' fedex decide to add which should be small.
A tough question for ya: Do you still prefer the Warbird or Orion 2 for fixed wing experience after having all the customization set up properly to your liking?
Difficult question indeed. I'm really torn, they're both so similar, that it might come down to what handle you want to put on it. The base's differences are so minor, (ignoring dampers) but i think the WarBRD wins out on feel, but the Orion 2 wins on spring rebound (with and without dampers)
whats the best setting for fly an airbus plane?
When I tried in "helicopter setup", I found if I turned my pc off and on the flightstick centred itself wherever I had left the stick...did you solve this?
I didn't encounter this, I'll forward it to a WinWing representative, to ask the software team about it.
@RedKite I've been looking for a stick with no cross axis resistance, and was hoping this would be it, but apparently it isn't :/ Got any advice on what stick to get if I want a high end stick with no such issues when you move it in circles?
The Virpil WarBRD 1 is just that, provided you use the smooth cams. I expect the WarBRD v2 that's for sale now is probably very similar.
@@RedKiteRender Many thanks Redkite, then I will be going for that one and install the smooth cams :)
Can you add springs on all sides? or no
what was that center console button/switch box? Looked rad and like something I've been wanting for awhile
I designed, 3d printed and assembled it myself to fit inside the virpil desk mount!
@@RedKiteRender Are you going to make any videos on the button box, would love to see how you designed/ built it !
@@rocotiger Hmm, i might! could be fun, i always get questions about it each time it's in a video.
I would really like to see that myself.
In my view the price of this stick is good and affordable being a high end stick (Isn't it?). The other brand prices are too way high and it's not clear to me what or where is the difference. With the extra money you save you can but the throttle.
I'm not quite sure of what I said before, because it turns out that the shipping cost is a bit high, so the price of this stick is higher than I was thinking earlier, making the difference with other brands slighter
Hi Redkite, is the clear plastic ring provided by Winwing? I can't find one on my base and I'm having trouble securing the joystick
I believe the ring may have come with the F-16 grip, but if you don't have one, any extra spacer would do the job, some small rubber bands would probably be good. Will help it lock in place a little easier. You can still connect it without the spacer, reason they added it was to stop vibration noise caused by the rumble motor in the F-16 handle.
@@RedKiteRender Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, there was nothing with my f-16 grip. I tried with a bike inner tube and it is a bit better but I have the MFSSB and with the extra force it will get loose from time to time.. I'll keep trying with different materials. Thanks for the great videos!
Why about offset for centre stick mounting?
You mean rotating the handle a couple degrees counter clockwise? Yes, you can do that.
I must have this.... Lol... $100 shipping to Canada has given me pause...
I will keep saying this. Winwing is China! China made crap! Overpriced, made with subpar electronics made to fail. Winwing is ultra aggressive trying to get people to buy their products through social media influencers. You people are being played by Communism. You going to figure this out? EVER?
interested in this, but does it come with a Z Axis? twist stick is a must for me.
Z axis is a separate add-on you can buy anytime..
@@ysiadpir1423 while they do have a z axis in the catalog, I havent seen it in stock, I inquired about it when I first heard of wingwing and they said they were looking for a new supplier and that was almost 2 years ago.
Does anyone know what adapter he's using to mount the Orion 2 Joystick to the Virpil Desk Mount?
Its the thrustmaster adaptor, the base is compatible with thrustmaster warthog mounts, as mentioned in the video.
@@RedKiteRender thanks man, appreciate it.
@@RedKiteRender Uh, I've looked at this stuff for hours on the internet and as far as I can tell, Virpil no longer sell that mounting plate for the Hog stick. Closest thing in their store is the Mongoose adaptor, but it doesn't have the actual plate part that goes under the stick base. Ostensibly, the WarBRD base has similar mounting holes to the Hog and Orion base, but the adaptor VPC sell now actually fixes to the top of the base, so it won't work with the Orion either.
Kind of a bummer, as VPCs mounts are the cheapest you can get that aren't dubious Amazon things.
@@Jerkzilla Monstertech or foxxmounts are worth a look then. I'm really surprised to see there's not a Warthog compatible one listed anymore!
The one i have was listed as compatible with both the WarBRD and Thrustmaster's base. It's got separate holes for both. I'd contact Virpil and ask if their WarBRD adaptor plate is still compatible with TM / Orion bases as it might just be an unlisted feature.
Any way to get a list of all desk mount parts you're using?
A Virpil desk mount (specific version discontinued) Within it is a custom personally designed/made 3d printed button box and an old pc case for the throttle. Rest is WW mounts that come with their panels.
Hey RedKite, do you have any idea if WinWing will make shipping to europe easier? Since I'd love to get the Orion 2 hotas, but around ~180 in VAT and shipping is a bit to much for me.
Oh and would it be possible for you to compare the Orion 2 set to the TM Warthog?
Thank you in advance!
The Orion 2 hotas beats the pants off of the old TM warthog hotas its a non contest. The Warthog stick has it's own qualities, but the bases from tm are just poor by today's standards, long overdue a product refresh!
@@RedKiteRender I see I see, that helps. I think Im gonna save for a pair of winwings instead of getting a "better" hotas I'm not content with (had to RMA my T16000m, so im looking for a new pair)
Hi there, I just got the base and the F16 ex grip, no throttle. I payed 315.90 Euros total shipped to Germany. I had an X-56 so you can imagine the evolution. Amazing piece. Took 9 days to get it. The shaking kit gives a feedback that amazed me. Depending from which base you are moving from is absolutely worth it.
@@garrafa517 € 315 Vat included?
@@racingtheweb Actually nope, 2 weeks later I got the Vat + fees bill from Fedex (they paid upfront to customs in Cologne and delivered) So what I said before was not corrrect. I do love the shake kit though.
WinWing is nice but I'll stick to my VKB GunFighter Mk2 MGP Pro Grip.
It has the most button and hat functionality (eg: 5-way hats) of any comparable stick I'm aware of.
It's cam and spring system is really thoughtful and is all inclusive with your purchase.
PS> I have nothing to do with the company other than own one of their products.
The VKB has very thoughtfully designed the whole stick, and going for the Su-35 style grip allows to get most features to all kind aircraft, without requiring to get different grips (unless just wanted for authenticity).
I have both sticks, and the particular area that you comment on is actually in favour of F16EX: it has the most buttons on the market.
@@Spelljammer1 Having enough buttons is enough, having more buttons than enough isn't favorable.
And what is enough buttons? It is not just that stick has proper amount of hats and buttons and possible axis, but that they are as well placed most suitable way that you can emulate another stick by having a needed function in the proper position.
@@katumus No disagreement from me on your approach to buttons, I share that.
I was stating the fact about the total number of buttons in response to the other commentator.
However when it comes to suitable way to articulate all the hats, for me personally the F16 type grip wins over the Su style grip. Unfortunately, because I like the MCG aesthetics the best. But I really do not like the thumb travel from the thumb hat switch ("CMS" most often) and the face buttons--over and around the bulbous analog thumbstick area. That I consider unnecessary strain over the long run.
If only you could use WinWing sticks on Virpil bases. WinWing's f-16 stick is far superior to anything Virpil makes, but their bases can't compete against Virpil's. If WinWing can make a base at the same quality they make their sticks(And introduce some custom cams/springs) then they would give both VKB and Virpil some real competition.
Hi. Thank your for the detailed review, but even though most is quite correct, I don't agree with many statements. The grip fixation is a pain in the a$$... sorry but it's very bad compared to an old warthog. 1 out 2 trials, the grip rotates and is not correctly fixed + you damage the thread with the small screw to adjust the offset. Hate it.The cam and spring changing process is painful. Period. But none managed to cerate a simple process for that feature Out of the box the feeling is very soft and unprecise so you must buy a kit with more cams and springs. I had no additional springs and cams in my package! When fixing the dampers (without cams), and put at max, the stick never stays in the position you leave it on! quite frustrating. With cams, you must really screw a lot to get damping. Finally you should never have to put either grease or teflon or whatever to a metal bearing type of mechanism. NEVER. Otherwise it is a poor designed product. The whole point of metal to metal is to be smooth and precise, so if you have to add grease on removable parts, then something is wrong. The Virpil Warbrd works just fine without anything. My fair opinion on a product i did not keep
Only complaint I have is stock of z axis module
Stock is a constant nightmare for getting anything that's not a mainstream hotas these days!
@@RedKiteRender I'm umming and raring over this and virpil mongoose and as mongoose has z-axis built in... At the moment it's winning but holding off just in case
@@richardparry1586 I'd actually hold off on anything Viripil for a little bit. They've just announced a new base that looks pretty interesting! Check their twitter/youtube to see the teaser.
@@RedKiteRender I did see that advert for DCS that they did 🙄🤔😂😂😂
Base looks interesting though, more dampening style base or what I would love is force feedback!
Oh yeah! though there's only a couple options and they're all super expensive intended for professional industry use.
I am truely disappointed in winwing! I ordered the F-16 EX stick and base. Got it today without any screws, tools and more importantly I asked it the 2 Hat extention was part of the package. It wasn't there either, I think there was supposed to be a screw to lock the stick to the base not there either. I went on their web sit, logged in but was unable to create a ticket so I can't tell anyone about this. Now I'm not even sure I can use the stick. What can I do? Should have stayed with Virpil. they have excellent customer support. Not sure what to do now.
I will keep saying this. Winwing is China! China made crap! Overpriced, made with subpar electronics made to fail. Winwing is ultra aggressive trying to get people to buy their products through social media influencers. You people are being played by Communism. You going to figure this out? EVER?
just use a drop of 767a and stiction will be much less likely.
Is a pity it doesn't come out the factory that way however.
@@RedKiteRender Well, that and as you mentioned, its never going to perform like a proper clutch, and honestly I am not sure why they didn't design it as such, they could've. Damping on spring/cam sticks is greatly underrated, thats one of the reasons the Gunfighter MK.III is such a great gimbal.
Why nobody has done a true FFB stick yet really baffles me
Complex and expensive to develop, and a whole host of legal issues have surrounded FFB for quite some time sadly :(
@@RedKiteRender aren't the patents LONG expired by this point tho?
@@josephrosenbaum3343 On their FB page they mentioned FFB is coming, but no idea if an option to this base or a new system or a timeline.
@Michael McDonald Whose facebook? You're not mistaking FSB and FBB are you? (force sensing base and Force feedback base) They're two very different technologies.
@joseph rosenbaum I don't think they've been expired that long, but I'll admit I'm not 100% up to date with it.
Joystick doesn't fly.
I can't buy it because the winwing wesite does not accept UK addresses rubbish
Has your opinion of this vs the warbrd changed since the introduction of the warbrd D base by virpil adding clutches?
Excellent review