Just to clarify, I still do enjoy WoW and this video does not apply to all WoW players and doesn't reflect my views. It's obvious that so many people still really love WoW! This video is designed to be thought-provoking and attempt to explore why some people may not enjoy it anymore. It may not apply to you. This isn't a 'one size fits all' video and I encourage you to give the video a chance before commenting. With all my videos I try to stay mostly objective and echo the consensus to discuss about, rather than make a pure opinion piece where there's no room for anything else. It's all in the balance. These videos are all for discussion, entertainment and opinion, so whether you have quit WoW or are still loving it, please leave a comment explaining why!
@@acrosswater9041 Haha, you have no idea the amount of times people have pulled me up on that and have said I'm asking for a miracle when asking WoW players to think critically. It's a really tricky one because I want to have these conversations regarding identification, why people feel the way they do and so on, but some people can't remove emotion or are blinded by specific agendas. It makes it really challenging to have these discussions. Some people will hate for the sake of hating and it is the internet after all, so it's kinda a 'come what may' situation. It's really great when people do take a step back though and really think about how we perceive things to be or how we engage with the game. I find it fascinating.
@@edd_TV I'm gonna be honnest, I didn't watch the video when I commented and I apologize for that, I'm just used to the overall negativity surrounding the game because ragebait is the trend for a large amount of youtubers. But I disagree that WoW players aren't able to think critically, I'd say they think MUCH too critically. Taking into account that people rarely just go somewhere to say "I'm happy with how things are". I truly believe that like in most game, the negativity is more often than not a loud minority. Not to say that criticism isn't warranted but I'm so tired of, for example, farming a rare for a mount, go to Wowhead and see people bitching about the spawn being 1-6 hours, saying that it's a shame for Blizzard to make people wait for such things even though those same people would cry if that reward was given easily. People cry about free things, hard things, time gated things, too much content, not enough content, repetitiveness, innovation.. They want the illusion of choice but end up choosing what's best for their character. As another exemple, today I spammed for 2 hours a message to have 3 people help me summon some rares to get an item to summon a big baddy for a mount. I ended up having to pay people to help me because no one was willing to help me. Fast forward a couple of hours, I saw someone in the group finder trying to get people to summon those same rares. I ended up joining despite the fact that I already had my loot just to be nice ! We didn't manage to find people but I told him that tomorrow I'd be able to summon the big baddy for him if he wants, we talked a bit, joked, he thanked me and sent me a friend request. To me that's the most WoW thing that happened this I joined back and it has nothing to do with the content itself, it's just And I thought that this video was just going to be about how WoW failed those people, I'm glad I was wrong. WoW has failed, sometimes but I can hardly blame "them", it's a 20 years old game that had to evolve like everyone else. The fact that the game is still alive today and I can see new player is to me a sign that the game can still be fun, it's just up to the individual. @edd_TV I'm gonna be honnest, I didn't watch the video when I commented and I apologize for that, I'm just used to the overall negativity surrounding the game because ragebait is the trend for a large amount of youtubers. But I disagree that WoW players aren't able to think critically, I'd say they think MUCH too critically. Taking into account that people rarely just go somewhere to say "I'm happy with how things are". I truly believe that like in most game, the negativity is more often than not a loud minority. Not to say that criticism isn't warranted but I'm so tired of, for example, farming a rare for a mount, go to Wowhead and see people bitching about the spawn being 1-6 hours, saying that it's a shame for Blizzard to make people wait for such things even though those same people would cry if that reward was given easily. People cry about free things, hard things, time gated things, too much content, not enough content, repetitiveness, innovation.. They want the illusion of choice but end up choosing what's best for their character. As another exemple, today I spammed for 2 hours a message to have 3 people help me summon some rares to get an item to summon a big baddy for a mount. I ended up having to pay people to help me because no one was willing to help me. Fast forward a couple of hours, I saw someone in the group finder trying to get people to summon those same rares. I ended up joining despite the fact that I already had my loot just to be nice ! We didn't manage to find people but I told him that tomorrow I'd be able to summon the big baddy for him if he wants, we talked a bit, joked, he thanked me and sent me a friend request. To me that's the most WoW thing that happened this I joined back and it has nothing to do with the content itself. Take my like :)
@@acrosswater9041 Haha, that's absolutely fine. I appreciate your honesty and taking the time to type this up! I see where you're coming from there and I very much agree with you in that sense. I suppose maybe I'm talking on more of a deeper level, like looking inside themselves and asking what makes them feel happy or fulfilled or why they do the things they do. I think players generally speaking are very critical and in turn that has made WoW not a nice place to be at times with the toxicity and gatekeeping that exists within the game. It isn't everywhere, but it does exist. I think you have summed it up perfectly in a sense. Blizzard won't ever get to win because whatever happens players are going to moan regardless. There isn't one giant tick box that satisfies everybody and players looooove to complain. That makes me sad that you had to pay people to help you. That's really commendable of you to help somebody else and the game needs more players like you. Manners and kindness cost absolutely nothing. That story was really heart-warming and definitely gives me the feels of days gone by. Thanks again for taking the time to type this up, it was a great read. And thank you for engaging with the video and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate that.
@@edd_TV so the game isnt demanding... you must tyranize yourself instead while every tom dick and harry takes the easy way around. Just because people gravitate towards the path of least resistance doesnt mean that its more fun than whe there was more resistance. and by offering someone an easy route or a fun route, you essentially poison the fun route because you are asking someone to handicap themselves to have fun and the very act of having to do that makes the challenge unfun because you arent competing with all players in said challenge but you are the one whos actually expected to punish himself just to feel something again... Modern wow is DEGENERATE and you have to be blind not to recognize that.
I was a mythic raider and high keys on m+been playing since 2008 but then one day I got burnt out and I wasn’t having fun and realized I haven’t been for a while now. So I concentrated on getting away from the meta and became a collector. Now I have 40k+ achievement,1002 mounts, 887 toys and every pet in the game minus a couple of blizzcon murlocs. And best part is I’m happy. Play the game how you want to don’t listen to anyone but yourself and you can spend the time doing something you love or like instead of something you feel forced to do.
I felt the same during Shadowlands. There were obviously so many dark points about Shadowlands, but I was progging Castle Nathria and we were about 8/10M and I just thought to myself 'What's the point? I'm not enjoying this.' I just felt compelled to play, it was so routine to me and I really had to break that cycle. I'm so jealous of your collections! I'm sitting around 34k-ish achievement points and just got the 500 mounts achievement courtesy of WoW Remix! It's great you had the awareness to make the changes needed to find happiness within the game still. Identifying the problem can sometimes be the hardest part. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings!
There's an angle that also needs to be considered: the story. I was a roleplayer first, everything else second. Yes, I quested and did dungeons, but I did it primarily to immerse in the story. I first left because I hit a tough financial spot. I had planned to return, but then my friends also left. By the time I had gotten to a better place, BfA happened and it left a strange taste. I could still be a fan but I stopped really wanting to explore it. Then Shadowlands happened and... yeah. Dragonflight wasn't bad but it also solidified what I had come to accept: it wasn't for me anymore. More power to those who enjoy it, but I am so sick of shallow, sizzle-reel MCU moments and heartfelt family therapy sessions. I fell in love with it when it was about being badass, heroic, monstrous, tragic, and larger than life. At least Iridikron is a cool villain, but all the rest just leave me feeling hollow. I definitely changed, too. I won't cop out of that. After I left, I started to really appreciate stories that had a beginning, a middle, and most importantly, an *end*. Our media has become so consumed by the need to prop up shows for as many seasons and sequels and prequels and spinoffs and on and on and on that it has left me mentally exhausted. WoW feels tired, and the fact that the design philosophy going forward *was* stated to take its queue from the MCU was heartbreaking.
Shadowlands was extremely jarring. I can understand where you're coming from there and I empathise. I played WoW primarily for the story. I wasn't a roleplayer but I loved the story and it was hugely important to me. I can relate to what you're saying with Dragonflight too. I tried to invest myself in it but something felt off, and I can't quite figure out what. I don't want to put it down to being a 'story for children' or 'disney' or something like that. I just didn't feel the story was remotely gripping. Maybe it was the Dragon Aspects. It's really hard to say. I think you are bang on the money with the MCU correlations. A lot of people preferred it when it was heavy metal. If you read this reply, I recommend you check out my video 'The Mourned Identity'. I think you will relate a lot! Thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and experiences!
I have had such a great time playing the game in the 12ish years I've been a part of it using an extremely simple method: I don't play if I'm not having fun. Even in the worst times there is almost always something to do, and when there isn't I'm fine with taking a break for a few months.
That's a very healthy and sensible way of looking at it. I can't really sum it up better. I think fomo is a big part of it all too. If something stops being fun then you absolutely should take a break, but some people feel as though they have to continue otherwise they may miss out on certain rewards etc.
I have been this game since vanilla, still hyping with it… hell i bought the pre-purchase war within. My family and friends has been asking me why are you still playing a game for more than 15+ years? You video was a simple explanation, i grow up with this game, im now a father to 2 girls, i play wow because i having my own fun in it, i actually also release all my life stress because its a video game that i can have my freedom. Saying that, my family and my friends got hooked to the game now, and it the most fun i had since i started wow, i mean my wife and my work colleagues are with me online , bunch of grown adults enjoying the laughs and adventures So i keep telling people, its a game and the purpose of it is to have fun, no one is forcing you to play it, you dont like it leave it
It's really amazing, isn't it? I've had the same questions. I've even had conversations with my mother who remembers buying World of Warcraft Game Cards for me when I was a teenager. It's honestly incredible the game is still going and thriving more than ever with various versions these days! It's a massive part of our lives. I think that's really great that your family have grown to love the game too. You'll create some great memories together! You're absolutely right. It's all about having fun and if you don't like it, you can take a break or play something else! I think sometimes people struggle with identification and why they aren't enjoying things like they used to. Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts, feelings and experiences. It was a very heart-warming read!
100% Agree. There are multiple factors & for me personally myself changing over time is a main one. That's why I've blocked out any & all spoilers, I don't want to know what's going to happen, I want to find out & try get back that feeling, not just switching off as soon as I start playing.
I think that's very important. It's so tricky these days because there is so much stuff that exists and we consume so much via social media for example. It's really difficult to stay spoiler free in anything. It really ruins a lot of the mystique and this is something players are so critical of. They want the mystery and the adventure, but everything is already out there ready to be consumed or read up on. I think that's a really commendable way to play. Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts and feelings!
One thing that helped WoW in the 2000s a lot was the social aspect. But that’s gone now. Some can blame new systems like LFD and LFR, and while I somewhat agree that those additions have been detrimental in a way, I believe the main cause is the rise of social media. If you wanted to hang out online you could do it completely in game, it was a perfect stage for something like a Halo 2/3 Xbox lobby. But smartphones and social media started taking all those conversations and interactions outside the game delivered in a far more instant gratification manner. And now at this point in the games life almost a full 20 years from launch the player base has become insanely talented at perfecting the gameplay. The top end world first guys are beyond gigabrain and that would be ok if that mindset stayed at the top end but it doesn’t. Very average players will see what the top guys are playing and then demand that their own groups do the exact same thing even though the disparity in play quality is wider than the Grand Canyon. The group finder will demand MDI comps and strats without anywhere close to the level of skill of the people who created it all. Back in the day it was totally fine that a raid like vanilla Naxx came out and only 1% saw it but now there’s so much entitlement that’s been built up in our modern culture that Blizz could never even think about doing something exclusive like that. WoW changed because the mindset of the people playing it changed because the culture and society outside the game changed. We can never go back to the way it was but in recent years Blizzard has seemed to learn how to best please as many people as they can by introducing so many different game modes between retail, classic, classic hc, classic sod, and now seasonal fun events like plunder storm and mop remix that all fall under the umbrella of the same $15 a month sub. WoW had to evolve with the gaming times and while some evolutions were very painful others were definitely more positive. Lots of old players have left but the game still draws in an insane amount of newcomers trying it out. WoW isn’t dying anytime soon for sure even if it understandably became unrecognizable to some of the long term old school guys who grew up and grew out of it.
*"WoW changed because the mindset of the people playing it changed because the culture and society outside the game changed"* That's the key sentence in your overall great comment. This sentiment carries over to the remake debate. I think that's the main reason why a lot of OG players can't really enjoy the remakes as much as they want to. Like the Greek philosopher Heraklit said "You can't bathe in the same waters twice." That's why managing your expectations is so important. When you're a fan of the OG and you want to play the remake, going into the game with the right mindset i.e. managing your expectations and appreciate the remake for what it is, you won't probably be as disappointed as with the mindset that the remake must evoke the exact same feeling you had playing the OG game back in the day. That's a recipe for disappointment.
Many years have passed now since I got burned out on WoW and MMO's in general, I used to search for games that would give me that old feeling of "the good old days", but I have accepted that I wont find it again sadly :) I have a family and house and other responsibilities now, what little free time I have now mostly go to single player games. I very fondly remember the good old days in the Everlasted guild, they were some of the best moments in my gaming life. Now I just hope I will find some game/games to play with my son some day when he's older :)
Phenomenal video! I have been playing wow hardcore since WoD, raiding and doing raids for gold. But I've burned out during BfA. Year ago I somehow decided to return but only with one rule in mind - no hardcore. So, I started to play casually and... oh boy, what a joy it is! Understanding that everything will eventually end, and you don't need to be "the first" to play is amazing. I slowly reading quests, talk to people, do LfR and M+ and feeling that I am doing all right, no pressure. I have good gear, I see the story and all the content at my own pace. Simply great . Same problem was with Plunderstorm. People were forcing themselves to play it for "rewards", they don't understand that playing it itself was a reward. Uhh
@@edd_TV it's the only game I've played as much as WoW lol Wish it had gained more attention in North America. Such a pleasant surprise to hear it in your video. I was brought here by Pyromancer, he just covered it on stream btw
@@hyperstimmed I have so much love for RO! I was a Blacksmith! I used to love setting up my shop in Prontera and just chatting and meeting new people. Such timeless memories. Oh that's really kind of him! I hope it was enjoyed. Thank you for engaging with the video, I appreciate that!
I've noticed this. I am older, I have a better idea of how I want to spend my free time. WoW is still enjoyable to me, but my focus has shifted. I'm no longer bothered about chasing for gear and doing tough as nails raiding. Now I just want to enjoy the story, slow my pace, take in the environment. And I'm not afraid to take breaks to go play something else for a while.
I think that's the best mentality to have, Luke. I think we have all been guilty of going really hard at WoW at one point in our lives, and I don't think we regret it either! But it obviously wasn't sustainable as we grew older. I feel the same as you do. Whilst I still enjoy pushing keys in retail and so on, I very much do just want to do what I want to do; farm achievements, collect things etc. I think your final sentence as well is extremely important and I think it's something a lot of WoW players struggle with. They feel compelled to play the game regardless of what state or shape its in and won't play anything else. It's something I think FFXIV does really well. FFXIV and Square Enix will encourage you to take breaks and play other games, whereas the philosophy of WoW appears to be more fomo so you feel stuck. There are so many great games out there right now, I shamefully still need to start FF7 Rebirth. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings, as always!
@@edd_TV Funny you should mention it, I think it was playing through FFXIV that taught me to savour the experience of simply just playing. It sounds daft to say it out loud, but it is something we need to remind ourselves about, that games are supposed to be fun and that our idea of fun changes over the years. I've only just gotten around to playing the first FF7R game, thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm stubbornly waiting for the Steam release for Rebirth!
@@LukeStrife I definitely have plans to release a video about that in the future about how FFXIV changed my perspective of how I play/played WoW. I think XIV changes a lot of people's perspectives on other games! Glad to hear you're having a blast with FF7R!
Loved the video man, I agree with majority of everything you said. WoW as well as anything someone chooses to do for fun is going to be more enjoyable when you choose to engage with it the way that appeals to you most/actually go into it with the intention of having fun and looking for things you enjoy in it. I do a bit of everything personally. PvE, PvP, Mog/Mount Collecting, socializing, enjoying the stories/zones, a bit of mild RP, etc. And i still get pretty strong endgame with my toons, as early Mythic+ keys, lfr/normal difficulty raids, pvp, and other ways you can get gear thats pretty good even if not the absolute top gear you can have. And personally I find that fun enough. And i do it without following metas, such as specific talent builds, using addons like WA/DBM, or taking the game too seriously. I don't think it's wrong if some people want to follow the meta, or do that highest tier end game content. But it would be nice if some people understood vice versa, not everyone wants/needs to do that to enjoy the game. Personally I think people should just enjoy it however they may and let others enjoy it how they choose. Different strokes for different folks. Cause as you said and we all know, fun is subjective. I have played WoW since I was a kid, almost for 20 yrs now off and on. There's been things I disliked that they've done as well as stuff I've thoroughly enjoyed. Playing WoW in so many different states it's been in, and retail doesn't have some of the things that older iterations may have... But tbh, being an adult working to provide for my family, retail has so much I can do with very little time invested. Call it easier, more convenient or whatever. But when trying to play anything before maybe Cata, is so slow and I feel I never progress anything in the amount of time I have to offer to the game. And being so much more alt friendly like WoW is now as an altaholic with little time to play the game, who also enjoys so many different activities in the game... Retail is just what I enjoy and am happy playing the most. And I wish that older/ex players of WoW would just give retail/its players a break and stop hounding anyone just cause they enjoy retail. I respect if someone doesn't enjoy it and it'd be nice to get the same courtesy from people who prefer it in it's classic form or aren't fans of the current game. Rant over. Love the video again. Keep it up. 🙏🔥
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and your experiences! I think you said it best with 'Different strokes for different folks.' There really isn't a 'one size fits all' for something like this, and we're all so very different and have fun in different ways. I really appreciate your engagement and support with the video. Your passion is admirable and I love the way you speak of the game. Thanks again! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Been playing since January 2006 (Mid Vanilla). I was 16 back then. The game was much more than a game for me until MoP. I used to raid with top 200-250 ww guilds (Genesis - Silvermoon, Brethren - Lightning's blade). During MoP, It was the first time that I thought about quitting, because: 1) I felt that the game had changed dramatically, 2) most of my friends left the game back then and 3) I was about to finish my bachelor's degree and start my Master's, so I couldn't be online for 5-7 hours every day. But the whole world changed and that is the main problem, I think. People nowadays, instead of working less with the rapid development of technology, have to work more in order to cover their needs.... The system grinds and crushes us for more profit and a game like WoW, which used to need time devotion and energy, is oudated..
I very much agree with you. I encountered the exact same problems/challenges, it's hard to find the correct word. It is just life I think. The world absolutely did change though and it's important we acknowledge that. It's not possible to point the blame at one individual thing I think, it's a combination of a lot of different things that ultimately changed everything forever. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and your memories with the game!
1. I do have fun: - Good storylines (when they are good) - Incredible music and art - Challenges such as myth raiding - I just like pressing buttons 2. I don't have fun when the game design is bad. Good thing now it's improving.
Glad to hear it! This video isn't calling everybody out, it's more a video essay for people who feel they can't find enjoyment in the game anymore and attempts to explore why that may be. I do agree with you though! Whilst the story has been disappointing in recent years, it has always been the biggest draw for me. And the art team and music has just been phenomenal throughout, even in the darkest times they have been superb. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
@@edd_TV Sadly they leaned too much in a soap opera direction, wow lost a lot of musculinity. Even the new Khadgar's face proves that 🤌😂 I recently thought why I like Khadgar so much. And the answer is pretty much the same for Gendalf. Musculonity. Standing for something. Stoiciam, being competent, serving not only themselves.
I've played wow since launch and I mostly only play classic and sometimes retail. I love the early to mid level progression. Just leveling does it for me so I make tons of alts. My current goal is to make enough alts with all thr professions and basically make all my gear solo. I love soloing classic at a slow pace.
I think levelling in classic is one of the most satisfying things the game has to offer. It's definitely my favourite part of classic. That's a big goal you have planned!
I played from Vanilla to WoD before quitting. I now set up a private vanilla server to play with my wife and kids. It is still as much fun as I remember. Much more than I enjoyed everything after Wrath.
Also our possibilities and freedom have changed, when you are an adult you can do much more stuff. Because you have money and freedom. Friday night as a kid, you can only play, you can't go out drinking. Or do bungee jumping on the weekend.
That's actually a very good point! I think with both growing up and having a job too only fueled Blizzard's idea of introducing the WoW token. They know their audience well and the age demographic; players are older now, they have less time...but more money. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
@@edd_TV I love the token, no more using gold sellers.You can't make me grind gold, I would quit the game. Meanwhile my cousin loves farming gold and the token gives her a purpose.
@@nikroth I was initially very much against the idea of the WoW token. I was always of the belief that things should be 'earned', but as time has gone on it does make much more sense. It's also very much just a 'If you can't beat them, join them' philosophy. You can't ever really stop gold sellers. I've never bought WoW tokens personally, but during lockdown I did actually farm several of them so I could buy the Shadowlands epic edition for free, haha. I think that's a good comparison with your cousin too. The WoW token may be for you and it's easy and accessible, and then here are other people such as your cousin who prefer to farm it and earn it. I suppose again it comes down to mindset, right? How do you want to get things done? etc. It all makes you think!
@@edd_TV Absolutely. There are always services that people buy, in some games it's gold. In others, boosting. People are buying services to get you out of ELO hell in LOL for example. And if there is a weekly gold cap, like in Lost Ark, people make many accounts to sell it... The only working solution is real ID accounts, 1 account per person, and if you get banned, it's over.
I am an Old. As a lass in her 40s I was NOT a kid when WoW came out. I was in college and working a part time job. I had less free time then than I do now. But I still loved WoW because it felt like a huge virtual world I could get lost in and explore. Every achievement felt meaningful, even just leveling up, because questing and the world were dangerous. Leveling was part of the journey, not the lobby you waited in until endgame. When Classic came out I enjoyed that very much, just like I did when I was young. I appreciated it even more as an older gamer. But since the game is so well known now it really got min/maxxed to death. People can get booted from content for NOT being engineers and this was content we were all able to clear back in the day as much more clueless gamers with worse internet connections and dumber addons. I dunno, it's sad.
That's such a brutal truth, describing it as a 'lobby you waited in until endgame'. That's really well said. You make a good point about Engineering too in Classic. It's very sad. Thank you for sharing your story, thoughts and your feelings!
Absolutely spot on! I still really enjoy my time in the game because of the particular community I'm in. When I too tried classic, all was well while my circle of friends remained (Playing 'retail' and classic). When BC classic launched it highlighted the issues and we went back to retail permanently. We have to admit, that players have changed and that Blizzard have been trying to cater to the mixed messages received. Dragonflight, for me personally, gives me great optimism for the future. The general populace does not.
That's great to hear. I think community is everything! What do you think changed with the jump from TBC as opposed to Classic for you? I'm totally with you there, I think Dragonflight provides huge reasons to be optimistic and I'm really excited to see what's going to happen with The Worldsoul Saga! The elitism will always exist but you hit the nail on the head, it's all about communities and finding what is right for you.
@@edd_TV At the start of classic I didn't really notice the level of 'tryhard' going on as I was in there with a mass of mates...however when BC came out, there were far fewer friends there. The chats in the general channel spamming hellfire dungeons (LFG) reminded me what I detest; Min-maxing the fun out of the game. Bit like ultra processed food really, it soon becomes crap.
I definitely still think retail is fun, but I’ll admit that I don’t enjoy playing classic because how I approach the game is not the same as it was when those expansions were first released. Retail WoW is great, but it’s not the same game it was because games evolve, and some people want that and others want the thing they love to always stay the same. Can’t please everyone
I completely agree about people taking the game much too seriously and feeling like they MUST play the game in this gotta-go-fast efficiency-minded way, and that Mythic+ and high end raiding is all the game has to offer. I've thought about doing a video on this myself to remind people that you can play the game however you want and it has much more to offer than those things. I will say though that the game is far from perfect and Blizzard does encourage these behaviors themselves (for example, why does Chromie Time become unavailable the moment you hit 60? Let people play in whatever expansion they want!), and I hope it's something Blizzard addresses in the future, as the director has recently said that they hope to reach more casual and midcore players in the future.
Very interesting and true video on the situation and the ageing of the first players. I gave myself a bit too much to the end game when I was younger, in terms of raids and guild management. And my time has become more and more precious with working life and its responsibilities. So I couldn't agree more on this state of affairs, which some naysayers seem to overlook or don't want to admit. In my case, I continue to play WoW solely for the immersion of the universe and its narrative content, capturing in images my journey, the quests, the landscape... that's what motivates me most to continue this adventure with Blizzard entertainment. As for the end game, I now prefer to focus on PvP as an element of challenge, which I find less stressful than raiding or mythic+.
I think I was the opposite. I was quite lost in vanilla and just happy to be taking in the world and such, TBC was probably my true first taste of raiding and by the time of Wrath and Cata I was fully established and committed. Legion was the pinnacle for me I think; Legion was when I tried my hardest, and surprisingly probably had the most fun! I'm glad to hear the video resonated well with you, and thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings!
I quit Shadowlands during 9.1 but I came back during the end for the Fated stuff and definitely enjoyed it more. Especially because they began the new formula with bringing other Mythic+ dungeons into play, that was a really smart move! Dragonflight provides huge optimism for the future I think. Thanks for sharing your experience!
The game has changed more. I did wonder at times if my memory of Vanilla was nostalgia but recently I gave Season of Discovery a go and right from the start the Vanilla game play model worked until some of the retail additions popped up and it was clear as day how the retail model ruined the game. All the problems you raise come down to poor game design and could be fixed if Blizzard wanted to, but the current model is about making money not a good game.
It's definitely a bit of both for me. I had fun with my brief stint in SoD. I did Phase 1 and 2 and decided to call it a day. You are right. It's definitely more about this sort of battle-pass/seasonal/fomo approach to make money. I don't think people want the design of Classic WoW to change too much though as they feel that would ruin the spirit of the game.
I'm likely an outlier player. I picked it up when I was 16, played day/night ever since on my own schedule. School didn't get in the way, nor did work (worked from home). The game changed, not me. I used to read quests, collect transmog, then SL came out and they just added what felt like 100s of recolours which were all too tedious to grind for. Compared to hitting exalted and buying 4- 5 recoloured mounts for 2K each. You'd grind once a week RNG WQs or NPC spawns... just stupid. Just to keep you subscribed. It moved away from being able to grind and achieve your goal for the effort you put in, to the game gatekeeping objectives from you.
That's commendable of you, I respect that. I think it's so important to take in all aspects of the game and not just the typical endgame approach. I do agree with you in regards to Shadowlands. Everything felt tedious about Shadowlands in truth. Reputations have felt poor since BFA I think, possibly even more. I can just remember the reputations being important in BFA for the Allied Races. You are right though. The game is quite predatory in that sense and fomo is hugely prevalent. You can still see it now with the likes of Plunderstorm and WoW Remix. I think both of these ideas are really cool, but it's a shame they are limited time events which kind of force players hands. Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts and feelings!
With the Cata Classic pre-patch the other day, I felt the specter of falling out of love again with WoW, and it did make me think back. I stopped playing, other than to hit level cap before the next expansion came out, in mid-Legion until Classic came out. TLDR: It's my fault and it's WoW's fault. Drama, less free time, two significant game design changes. A lot of the faults of my losing the thrill of retail are personal: a guildie passing away; guild drama with deciding to just take December off because we already knew two or more people would be missing each week; other parts of my life limiting the number of hours I could play (if I can't put in 2-3 hours at a time, minimum, it isn't worth spending any time). But there are parts that are WoW's fault, and it took the pre-patch to show me. There was a reason I never liked playing a warrior, rouge, or to a lesser degree a warlock back in the day: the builder/spender mechanic. Once I saw that Holy Power resource show up on my classic paladin I jumped to a shaman. And that made me realize just how much I hate that style of gameplay; it was almost instant PTSD. In retail Cata I stuck it out with the paladin, but was playing a shaman on the side, then in MoP I went full shaman and just kept the paladin leveled out of a sense of devotion (ironic). Then Legion gave the shaman Maelstorm, another builder/spender. The other part of WoW's game design that I never liked was Challenge Mode, which evolved into Mythic+. Time-attack modes in games were always my least favorite part of any game. I'd rather gather 10,000 resources than do 5 speedruns a night. So, I changed, and WoW changed. Sometimes relationships just aren't meant to last. Any yet, I still try to keep up on all the lore, thanks UA-camrs.
Did you try Dragonflight? I think you are right. I think we could play the blame game with who or what changed, but ultimately a lot has changed - both the game and us. A lot of it simply comes down to identification. I'm so sorry to hear about your guild member passing away. I really appreciate you taking the time to watch the video and being so candid about your experiences with the game. Your engagement with the video means a lot to me, so I appreciate that and thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings.
@@edd_TV I was excited for Dragonflight... and haven't played a second of it. That is mainly because of real life, my daughter was born a few months before launch. Though I did level up to 60 during the pre-patch event, but still didn't like how my characters played. It's like meeting up with an ex after a few years just to confirm that while it can be nice to catch up, it was the right call to break up. WoW is still a part of my life, obviously, and I try to keep up with lore, but now it's WoW Classic for 2-4 hours on a Saturday night with my wife and friends just running dungeons and goofing off.
@@WillDawg01 Congratulations on your daughter! That's a great analogy you used there too. It's nice that you're still able to get your WoW fix with Classic, however brief it may be. Thank you for being so open and sharing your experiences and feelings!
There is only one raid I actually cleared on mythic while it was relevant and that was siege of orgrimmar after the prepatch of wod. Before that I had a lot of fun of doing 10 man hero during cata and mop and I hate that ithey changed that system with wod.
Great vid, i caught it over on Pyro's channel. You just got a new sub. I agree with you, some folks just keep playing, others get busy with other things, grow past it, or life changes and they move on. Nothing wrong with that. Hanging out in forums blasting how bad the game is, how evil, horrible, not-worth-a-damn Blizzard and WoW are, and you're a horrible person for liking it when they hate it is a problem. Seems some folks don't like it and want everyone else to not like it too. I've learned, finally, to ignore the trolls (took me awhile, a am a slow learner like that). I play because it's fun. Because once my adult children bought me the game in 08, I fell head over heels in love with it. I have played at least weekly, if not daily, since. Now I'm playing longer and daily because I'm older (67) and disabled so WoW is my fun thing to do. I do miss a good guild, I just found a new one and have had fun raiding but I tend to forget it's raid night because I haven't in a very long time so it's not top of the schedule in my head yet. But I play by myself, doing old content dungeons and raids solo for gear and to explore places I' have not been in awhile, or working for new gear and achieves. I set goals for myself, right now it's Remix and I've made 9 new characters with the objective of getting all the transmogs and mounts, any achievements that don't include making my way into dungeons where it's "run, run, run" (burned on that the first time I went in when me and two others got locked out of the second boss and the rest of the dungeon). I may try again, I may not, it's not that important to put myself through that stress. But I'm having fun learning new classes, new specs, and seeing how much I can push. I have fun flying around looking for orbs, it's almost to the point of "gotta get them all, see it, do it." I know everyone plays differently. No one is going to want to slow their roll down for Granny Rubyrose to catch up or remember to move left when the time calls for it. I don't want to make their game any less fun. And that's totally okay. I can do me, they can do them, and we can both love the game from different directions. I've thought about making a guild for those of us who want to take our time, do our thing, and get together to do the dungeons and raids slowly with time to look at everything and experience rather than cut to the chase, kill the bosses, and see how fast we go. I just don't know if I feel up to leadership again (led a 1000 organization for about 10 years--burn out is real). But we'll see. As I said, great vid and I look forward to more. Thanks!
I think that's really great that you play the game with your children! I think your analysis and mindset is spot on. I think you should make that guild too, you would absolutely meet some like-minded individuals. That could be something to look into with Delves coming up in the future! Thank you for your support and your kind words, and thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and experiences!
They can still bounce back with Classic. While SOD seems to be going downhill? Private servers like Turtle WOW have proven that it can be done. Blizzard is missing out. Remix has been fun, But for some reason, Blizzard has no interest in it at all with a Vanilla Plus.
I think in time Classic+ could come. Turtle WoW seems to be making serious moves with it in that respect. I think maybe SoD is just getting an idea what the players like/dislike. I think we could see further seasons maybe as they continue to experiment. It’s hard to say. I'm going to try Remix soon! I'm looking forward to it.
I feel like the general mindset part extends beyond the MMO genre too. There is simply too much information out there and it is too normalized to look up every bit of information before enjoying the content, taking away the exploration part of new systems or environments. Nowadays when people want to play a class, the first thing many do is look up builds for said class. It makes sense because those builds are better, but back when we didn't have that information we had many people running around with many different (albeit mostly terrible) builds of said class, making everything less uniform. New content is known before it is released, opinions are formed about said content based on watching a stream or video about the content without even trying it. I can see this happening even with the upcoming Elden Ring DLC, where many people are going to instantly look up a build to clear the content with and not even consider other stuff. Taking away from the exploration and excitement of finding a new weapon because its not part of the build you picked.
Very true! You can absolutely apply it to any game. I don't think it's something players should be marked down or penalised for either. We're all different. I just think the prevalence of it all is so grand, and a lot of people are so easy to say the magic and mystique is dead, but don't have the awareness to see that it's their mindset that may be contributing to this a little. This was a really good comment. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and thank you for watching!
simply, younger, innocent, clueless 1- for younger ppl, every experience have more emotions and surprise envoling on this, because its the first time (You can't step into the same river twice) 2- Clueless ppl can enjoy things without needing to think things outside the game (your mind is focusing in enjoying, not worrying) 3- social aspect back in the day is important cause we dont have social media like those days ( game works as a GTA rp but with magic and orc in the past, also, works like a facebook but instead of a feed, its a world)
@@edd_TV yeah but its the same game in essence, what change is the goal we put in there, if today wow launch in the past, will be the same feeling as today, "the old good days", the days today is the good days tomorrow
@@flix1179 I agree. The game (and the day) is certainly what you make of it, and I think players can often be their own worst enemies without even realising it. I appreciate your engagement with the video and your stance on all of this. Knowledge is power!
I agree. The WoW token really spoiled a lot for me. I can understand its design to counter bots, but I just think being able to buy gold really ruins the integrity of the game. The economy got so crazy during WoD and was simply never addressed leaving the WoW token to be the ultimate 'solution', and it's a shame. I haven't had bad experiences with botting personally, but I know how profound it is and I can remember how crazy things were in BFA. It's just not something that is cracked down upon enough sadly.
I think why I'm not having fun like I once was is simple, you need an add-on for EVERYTHING, in retail! Its over complex for one reason, speed. Like you said, we are forced to consume the content as fast as possible, which just leaves endgame. So how do you create longevity in this game? Making endgame take longer with grinds! Mythics, Mythic+, professions now needing a youtube video thats almost thirty minutes long to tell you how to level your profession optimally!
I do agree with you that the amount of addons you need in WoW is insane at this point. I think they have done well in improving the game and adding more quality of life but you still have to rely on so much; weak auras, deadly boss mods etc. You have hit the nail on the head in terms of longevity and replayability. I didn't play a great deal of Dragonflight but I wasn't impressed with the new profession system at all. Maybe most love it and I'm the minority, but I just found it confusing.
@edd_TV you're not the minority, the copium from people who are still trying to convince themselves that retail is fun is crazy. I've had someone tell me it wasn't overly complex by telling me that it was actually overly complex.
the players optimised a lot of fun things out of the game, but blizzard doubled down on that mentalilty and cater to it. As you said, mythic raids being heavily overtuned for the race to world first its just pointless to 99.9% of the player base. WoW should never be an esport, if the game is good then people will watch it regardless but forcing it to fit an esports mould just turns into an evironment where something like Archon can even be considered worth making.
I don't understand that mentality. There's 3 other tiers of raiding. I don't feel like my platinum game in league is worthless because I'm not in challenger. If you don't want to do the hardest content don't do it but what harm does it existing for others do?
@@2o3ief I think people WANT to do the hardest, but the barrier to entry is challenging and unless you're in a well run guild with good admin, it can be quite difficult with 20 people. I think some people are just a bit tired of heroic because it's easy for them, but that bridge to mythic is just a bridge too far. That's just my take on it anyway. I absolutely believe there is prestige there.
@@edd_TV interesting, I just do PvP so cant speak to how stark a gap there is there but that makes sense to me. I always figured it was because people still wanted the best gear in it of itself even if they're not interested in hard content because unlike league this is an RPG.
@@2o3ief I think PvP is different because it has to be competition right? I think I would argue that PvP should be the ONLY competitive element in WoW, but again that's just me. I understanding parsing and dps meters, and it's always fun to have a race with your friends etc, but it does feel like it's getting a bit too egotistical. As far as PvP is concerned, I think it's absolutely fine to go as hard as possible and be as competitive as you can, the goal is to win!
My personal problem with WoW is how 99% of the content is irrelevant to the current 'patch'. I for one couldn't care less about 'balanced' classes in a pve focused game, yet for some reason 90% of the focus for the next expansion is changing the classes yet again. As someone who hasn't played WoW until Legion, I was looking forward to explroring old zones. I originally thought it would be akin to GW2, where everything you do contributes to your overall progression. You can imagine my disappointmment when I realized there's 0 reason to visit any of the old zones unless you're going after achievements. I would love to see a version of modern WoW where old content is somehow relevant in terms of progression. It would be an insanely difficult feat, but not impossible. Fated raids, Timewalking dungeons and the recent M+ addition of older dungeons are a great start, even though the devs are still so hesitant to change their 'seasonal content treadmill' philisophy. I would love to actually 'explore' WoW, but as it stands, the game doesn't provide any relevant reason to do so. But then again I might be in the minority...as players reportedly hate the concept of revisiting older content and are only keen on speedrunning the latest patch.
I recommend you check out out my 'Island of Irrelevancy' video if you haven't seen it! I'm totally with you on this. It's such a damn shame that so much of the world gets left behind or becomes irrelevant because the game 'needs to focus on upcoming stuff.' It's something FFXIV has done so well, and I'm hopeful Blizzard can learn of it going forward with the likes of Delves and such. I can't imagine how it must feel for you if you started in Legion, and I really do empathise with you. I really love your thoughts and ideas. There is SO much more they could do with both Chromie Time and Timewalking; Timewalking really could do with a fresh coat of paint I think because there are some great possibilities there! I sadly do think we are the minority in this sense, but I'm totally with you and I know many more are too! Thank you for taking the time to watch this and sharing your thoughts and feelings. I resonated with your thoughts a lot.
@@edd_TV Thank you for your content! Just checked out the video you recommended because it sounded familiar and as it turns out, I have actually seen it when you first uploaded it. Spot on assessment!
@@AlexandarJankovic Thank you! I really appreciate your engagement and it's so nice to hear players share similar views and opinions. Like you say, we may be the minority but we do exist!
WoW is consuming a lot of time for too little reward. I work from 8:00 a.m to 4:00 p.m and i come to home at 6 p.m . I have 6-7 hours to spend in home and i can't waste it to farm one item in m+. Finding group takes around 25-30 mins as dps and 25 more minutes to complete the dungeon. I have to waste my 1 hour to get a item(prob i won't get the item i want and dungeon reward will be just 50 gold).It was okay for me when i was university student but now hell no. I can't spare my all night for 3-4 dungeons. This is why i quit playing wow.Now i am enjoying more casual games like helldivers 2.
I do think life has gotten in the way for a lot of players, but also like you say, it just may not be worth it to some players now anymore. I think you have made the right decision for yourself, and there are plenty of other games out there that you can enjoy if WoW doesn't tick that box anymore. I've heard good things about Helldivers 2! Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences!
For me, it was definately friends dropping off that killed my interest. At the height of my time on wow, i would always see like 10-15 people ready to do stuff. By shadowlands, i couldnt even scrape people together to do dingeons. Wow was a social game for me, and as soon as it was no longer social, that was it.
I relate a lot. Some people have just moved on or fallen out of love with it. I enjoyed Dragonflight, but it was a real struggle for me playing it alone. The majority of the people I played with checked out around BFA and Shadowlands was the last thing that could have brought anybody back from the brink.
I'd say it's maybe 30% the game, and 75% the players. Like you said, we're all older now, and free time is much more valuable. Way I figure it, the minimum amount of time you want to have for one character in the game is about 10 hours a week. This is assuming you're playing the "right" way and not buying gold. 10 hours a week for one game to a guy with a job, wife, kids, etc., is a lot of time. Especially since a good chunk of that time, the raiding time, is ideally uninterrupted. In addition to the time requirement, the grind just gets old after a while. After playing WoW for about 12 of the last 17 years, I'm just tired of it. Single player games I can play at my own pace are the future for me.
Very valid and fair assessment. I agree with you. I need to rekindle my love with single player games as similarly to you, I think I've been in the grind and rat-race for too long. I still love WoW and I'm very excited for the Worldsoul Saga, but there is so many games I still need to catch up on, like Final Fantasy 7 Remake for instance! Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings.
What WoW lacks for me is quite simple: - Evergreen content, which is why borrowed power is the worst idea ever; all effort put into it will be entirely moot once it becomes obsolete. The silver lining for Legion artifacts is their tmog value - An enthusiastic community. I struggle to see ANYTHING even remotely resembling a community in the game these days - Clear combat language. If boss fights are designed around add-ons, and players demand add-ons just to participate, then what's the point? I struggle to get back into content because I've _forgotten_ more than most modern day players will ever know about the game - Exciting and meaningful progression. The last time I remember an item's name was... Wrath of the Lich King? Furthermore, modern day 'progression' is more about regaining lost power than it is actually gaining it. The strongest a player will ever be is level 1... I want to give War Within a shot, but I've yet to see a video actually selling it.
I really liked borrowed power initially, but I think that is mainly because WoD was just so empty. It was a real breath of fresh air for me and I loved dedicating the time to upgrade all of my traits and so on. It reminded me of old skool talents back in Vanilla. Everything we got felt so important and I really felt my character getting stronger. But once it was taken away, it felt so horrible. You make a good point about some of it remaining in transmog form though, that was a saving grace. However, this line of gameplay for several years afterwards felt so horrendous. If it was a one and done with Legion, I think Legion would be held in an even higher regard. Sadly people (rightly so) point the finger at Legion for it paving the cruel road WoW inevitably ended up walking, and it's true. I think enthusiastic communities DO exist but I think they are exceptionally rare. I moved over an RP server after playing so much FFXIV so I'm hopeful when I get back into WoW I will feel SOME semblance of what I feel in XIV. You make some really good points and honestly, I'm in the same boat as you. I haven't purchased TWW yet because I don't feel I need to. I don't think I'm 'over' WoW by any means but I'm just doing other things. I'm currently raiding Savage in XIV, I'm making videos here etc, I'm just content with what I'm doing and very much like you, I haven't seen anything that has made me think 'WOW, I need to play this!'. I thought maybe Delves would be that, but it hasn't blown me away or anything. I'm definitely going to buy it at some point and I think I'll make a video on my levelling experience and what I think of the narrative. I love and agree with all of your points. Thank you for watching and sharing them!
Excluding Classic launch. Torghast is the most fun i had in wow in recent times it's just a shame it got such a sour reputation. It's the Best idea Blizzard ever had with the worst execution.
@@edd_TV I was hoping that would have been the outcome of torghast with new environments and New enemies on top of that some kind of completely random endless mode.
@@oskardanigsecher9906 I LOVED the idea of Torghast, and when I was watching people covering it during the beta and whatnot it looked really great. I think they have no doubt learned some harsh lessons and hopefully if they attempt it again, they will realise that it doesn't need to be gated by power or incentivisation. It just needs to be a fun experience and if people are interested in rogue-likes, they'll play it! It's an ace in the hole. It's such a popular type of game and I think it's something they can tap into better with more thought and better execution.
The game became a job instead of fun, as the system of gear became grind= reward with time. Now the time factor has been pushed so far right that the grind became work. Wow was the escape from work. So once one became the other well... I get paid from one and pay the other for actually nothing but pixels.
This comment cuts deep. You speak a lot of truth. It's a bit of a blame game I think with the optimisation. The players started it and Blizzard drew on that. I think the job side of thing is tough. People obviously want to be the best they can be, but the price players had to pay to achieve this (From Legion to Shadowlands) was really gruelling.
I started this game when it came out (still have my 10 year anniversary orc statue) and all I can say is it's too difficult now. It was easy and tedious back then, making it a simple time commitment and not a feat of ability. Now it's too fast-paced, too overcomplicated and not fun. No matter what I do on my ret paladin, I cannot reach the same numbers others do, even with better gear. It's just not fun for me to do any group content, since I'm always at the bottom of the meters. Raided in AQ and Naxx, but now I barely touch LFR. Hopefully delves help with this, as it seems like that kind of content is geared to me. I hate tryhards, kind of always have, and they've made the game for those people now. Hopefully it dials back somewhat. I don't want to play remade classic, have almost 20 years put into my retail characters, and I want to play them.
Very cool that you have that orc statue! I do agree with you. The game suffers dramatically from bloat and a desire to get things done as fast as possible. It's an ethos and philosophy that has seeped deeply into the community. It feels like Overwatch levels of speed in an MMORPG, and I just don't think an MMO should ever be that fast or be that competitive. MMO's are supposed to be comfy. I'm really hopeful for delves too; they look like a combination of Mythic+ and Torghast, I'm pretty hopeful they will be a lot of fun. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences!
Your analysis has the right points, but u arrived from the wrong side at them: Blizzard DIDNT DESIGN ANYTHING in regards to what we have now, they just OBEYED to what the loudest voices in the comunity wanted to have, .. PLAYERS wanted more QoL, less forced to social, faster leveling i.e. overoptimization of the game to "skip" the "unnecessary" art cuz onkly endgame is game, etc etc. all the shit i hate is stuff people cried about they want the game to be changed to be like it is now -- i was there since BC, even end of vanilla .. i heard all discussions, saw the forum posts, and when social media went up all the stuff there too -- in a time where the game didnt have all these things i hate, people complained they dont like it -- and blizzard just did one thing: they listened, and made the game accordingly . . . . that's why i was so happy (in theory) that they did NOT listen anymore in BfA/shadowlands and said "nope, we have our vision, THIS time we will not tear down how we want to make the game" --- just sad that they were over it exactly when they for the first time really had..uncooked..ideas . . .
I think a bit of both. I think the QoL has only been good for the game. If you look at people who play classic they use addons to make the game more like retail in that sense, because all the QoL exists in the modern game and they 'need' it. I definitely agree with you in regards to how detrimental things like the dungeon finder have been, as they have destroyed all social aspects and opportunities to meet new players. We have seen this in Classic how people wished to be able to use General Chat or Trade Chat to advertise for groups again, but then people just used addons to form groups anyway. I think a harsh truth is, most people have their groups/friends to play with so this kind of behaviour or philosophy of using methods to 'recruit' don't need to exist anymore, and some people do just lack patience and want to get going as quickly as they can. I think we can blame both the community and as you say, Blizzard for bending the knee in that sense. And I do think they need to be able to do both; sticking to their guns and believing in their philosophy but sometimes also taking a step back and thinking 'Yeah, the players are right on this one'. I think it goes both ways. You are very right though! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings, and thank you for watching!
not so much for older expansions, but Dragonflight Absolutely has no regard for your time, there are wait times all over for mini events that happen every hour or so, the soup pot, the hunts, the primal storms, time rifts, emerald dream flares, the big dig and all those other ones in the cavern and Emerald Dream. unless you're constantly monitoring your map to know whats going on and where, you are absolutely screwed if you can only play for a short period of time because chances are you'll spend all your time waiting for an event to pop up or be too busy doing anything else to manage to catch one. my major gripe is rather than Punish the elitist gatekeepers that really took root in WoD, they inadvertently rewarded them by having Item level show up in Group Finder, so they can more easily keep people out of raids for being "too low". there is nothing more disheartening than trying to get into a raid above LFR and seeing "timed out" or "declined" 20 times in a row. Im currently working on A World Awoken because I apparently hate myself and its basically Busywork the achievement and Im working to knock each achive out at a time and maybe half or so was done by the time I was like "how do get big f*ck off dog mount?" followed by an "oh....JFC" I am _DREADING_ doing the mythic one because I Know I'm in for a slog trying to get those mythic dungeons done. you'd think killing 200 of every storm empowered enemy of every type of storm in every zone would be the worst one since you have to wait 3 hours for random storms, but no its the one where I just have to run 8 mythic dungeons. someone else said it best but the TLDR of How WoW's playerbase functions is that if you are seen as an obstacle, you will be treated as an obstacle.
You make a great point regarding the activities of Dragonflight. It is a bit frustrating how you can only really realistically choose to do one out several, and you have to make the decision what matters more to you. I installed TomCat Tours when I returned to Dragonflight and I had SO many timers and events just popping off. It was overwhelming as hell. The gatekeeping is super exhausting and I don't really know how you stop something like that. I can relate to the declining of groups as a holy paladin at one stage, and I genuinely think that's why they gave holy paladins combat res, just to try and make them more viable. Good luck with that achievement! I find stuff like that very commendable and it does feel very satisfying when you complete it. This is a really well written comment and your final word is so very true. I think the same can be said for optimisation, if players CAN do it, they WILL do it. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts and feelings!
I think all games can become a chore if you play to much to be honest. Got that way with CS mixing; but shouldn't take away from all the fun times we had and stuff like that. Every memory is unique; that clutch, that wan deag, that dodgy fountain plant. The community of friends you build around it. When something becomes routine it starts to lose its appeal and people drift off in search of something that's fun again. For WoW in particular I think the increased focus on dailies probably made the game feel like that - Mists in particular for me - just felt that it was more about keeping me in the game than me achieving a goal and then the cynicism crept in. After that - especially around WoD the game felt like it was definitely being tailored for people who had a higher toleration of that kind of thing and probably far more dedicated to endgame content. Think it's probably a difficult position for Blizzard because raiders are consistent subscribers whereas casuals are not. Focusing on content more geared towards hardcore raiders also means that the game is less accessible to newer and returning players. One of the problems with the subscription model I think. Which is another topic entirely.
Such great memories. It's interesting that you felt this change in MoP. I do recall that was when the increase of dailies came in, but I can't remember feeling like I was going above and beyond with it in Mists, besides The Tillers farm, I was mad for that! I felt like Legion was really asking for a lot, but because WoD was so lifeless I absolutely loved it. You are right though, it's clear to see the design to keep players active. You make a good point too with who Blizzard choose to cater to/prioritise. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings!
i get what you're saying, and to some degree yes we are all older and its harder to find that sense of exploration and mystique. but i still believe blizzard has just been pushing out terrible products. ow2, wc3 reforged, d4, shadowlands, forgettable dragonflight. som. they just suck at their jobs honestly, and we keep giving wow a chance because every mmorpg has been a fail in the past 10 years.
Oh no doubt about it. I think the products have been below par too in recent years. I can't speak for Overwatch personally, but Warcraft III reforged was a slap in the face. I was really disappointed with it. I trudged through BFA, but Shadowlands is ultimately what pushed me away from WoW for the longest time. I have no issues with Dragonflight personally aside from the story being a bit forgettable like you say, and just not very engaging. I think we keep giving WoW a chance because it's so important to us. We love it and we can be critical of it, not because we hate it, but because of how MUCH we love it and we want it to be great again. It's just important to understand that for some people they feel like they are in those glory days now, whereas some players feel they are truly over with. I would like to be hopeful with the Worldsoul Saga, but we'll honestly have to wait and see. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings!
So do I. This video is in relation to those who don't have fun anymore and attempting to explore why that may be. I do state that many people still enjoy WoW more than ever right now. I recommend watching the video first, lol. Glad to hear you're enjoying it!
I have to say something, about my experience with World of Warcraft. I was 100% against playing WoW, it looked different and unknown. It took Wrath of the Lich King to even have an ounce of a care for the game. Since I liked Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne. After Legion, I stopped playing altogether, but on Feb 8, 2018, I joined FFXIV. And I haven't looked back to play World of Warcraft anymore because of the mandatory requirement of having all the Addons. Addons really killed the game, no offense.
I don't think you're alone with those feelings about addons. A lot of people are campaigning for addons to be removed from the game. I sadly don't think it will ever happen though. Blizzard even design encounters around addons in mind these days.
@@edd_TV Actually, Blizzard can't handle the Arms Race with Addons and they've mentioned they *could* ban Addons permanently. They stopped making content around addons. And it happened like Dragonflight / The War Within. When they mentioned they could do Ban Addons permanently. By changing one thing, I think it's the API or something to that effect. I remember this because of Preach's Interview with Ion Hazzitosiz (sp?).
@@ArmageddonEvil That's very interesting! I'll have to check that out. I do think we have become so reliant on the likes of DBM and weakauras, it really spoils so many encounters. Thanks for sharing!
@@edd_TV No problem, I have a lot of insight from watching videos. Playing my favorite MMORPG, FFXIV. It'll take a while for WoW to regain what it had in the past. That growth to 12 million Subscribers was insane. It'll take a long time before they can get back to that number. Since they have probably much less subscribers than they are showing to everyone. Battle for Azeroth was one of the worst expansions because they had the mentality of the players are the enemy. Shadowlands after that was pretty bad too. It's quite ironic that the Development Team tries to counter players by destroying fun. A Speed Build getting gutted because it was FUN. The Fun Police is Blizzard Development Team for WoW.
@@ArmageddonEvil I don't think it's possible for WoW to ever get back to those heights. It was just a phenomenon at the time. I think the best card they could have played and DID play was Classic. I think Classic is a money-maker forever. They can release Classic fresh and people will constantly return and play it again. It's a deep rooted obsession at this point. I think the Worldsoul Saga CAN get players back and subscriber numbers up, but no way will they ever get close to those Wrath numbers again!
People who say that modern WoW is too easy or easier than it used to be straight up don't know what they're talking about and have never played any actual end game progression content.
I agree. Mythic is harder than anything we have ever seen before. I wonder if perhaps they mean the way questing and the open world is now; you can do most stuff alone etc. You don't have the 'elite' quests anymore and so on.
I don't think that makes you terrible! Don't sell yourself short. I think it means you have a desire to explore and learn for yourself. I think back to the days of when I was a kid and one of my friends had a walkthrough magazine for The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, and even as a child,I was so disappointed in him that he wanted to just follow a guide and not figure things out for himself and learn. It's one of the most satisfying things about a game I think.
@@Boredonthejob So true. It was iconic for so many of us and a real foray into the gaming world. Majora's Mask is my personal favourite, but the Zelda games are fantastic. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts and feelings!
So am I. This video isn't targeted for every player. Many people enjoy it, as I state in the video! This video is designed to be thought-provoking and attempt to explain why some people may not enjoy it anymore. Glad to hear you're enjoying it!
Disagree if you change the developers you will change the game. It would be like seeing a tribute band to Led Zeppelin and then telling everyone you've seen the real Led Zeppelin. All of the of the game devs left around 2014 to 2015
That is very true, and that shows with both character development and the storytelling. It's definitely a factor for some players. It feels at times the developers don't understand the characters and there is a rapid change in tone. I still think it's important to acknowledge that growing up was a big part of the enjoyment experience though.
I am 38 like most of wow core base, with a kid and a job. I have nothing but time...its 8 in the morning , i can get up, play wow for 4 hours, make some food for an hour and tidy up the place and then play wow untill night. Most days i choose to play games or watch twitch/yt for half of that time which is still 6-8 hours a day.
Eh, can't relate. I play the game like 3 months each year and have a lot of fun. Its delusional to pay 12 months and hope every month is gonna give you satisfcation.
I agree. I think it depends on what interests you too and what you deem satisfying. We all get that dopamine hit in different ways. There is definitely plenty of fun to be had, but for 12 months consecutively? That might be a tall order for some, and there are so many other games out there too. Breaks are important.
It’s all still fun I think, it’s just all about your preferences and your goals. We all enjoy different things and I think it's really great that there are multiple versions of WoW now so people can just play their favourite.
The problem with wow is its been going on for so long that nothings new. In vanilla it was old god wotlk old gods mop cata bfa sl df and now the new expansion old gods zzzz.
I do think they need to get the Old Gods right after how poor BFA was, but I agree to some extent. It’s very stale/samey, but I think the worldsoul saga intends to wrap up almost everything a best it can, and then we'll see that new era of WoW ushered in, hopefully!
I think it's in for life at this point, which I suppose I don't mind but at the same time I think it needs reinventing or needs to evolve. It's too focused around gear, and I'm not sure if that's just a me problem. I would like to want to do mythic+ but for other things: transmog, achievements, mounts etc. It would be nice if they could provide challenges on certain weeks for instance. It's such a core part of the replayability now, it's hard to imagine it gone.
@@edd_TV Oh for sure, I'm on copium here, I'm a minority that doesn't actually like how we are forced to farm mythic+ just so we can raid. funnily enough I was a big fan of challenge mode however, probably cuz of the reasons you listed, mount/mog/title and once you had done it, you were done.
@@Hedidit It's strange because you don't even need to raid anymore with something like the creation catalyst now. You can just acquire gear from Mythic+ and convert that into tier pieces with the catalyst, which I feel really conflicted about. I think it's good for casuals to still be able to acquire 2/4set because it's so powerful for Mythic+ and such, but it seems quite damaging to raiding. Outside of the story, raiding to me was always about acquiring the tier set (and of course the community aspect of it all). Now it feels like the only real reason to do the raids is to get the really powerful trinkets you otherwise wouldn't be able to get. Maybe that's just the cynic in me. I agree with you on the challenge modes. They were a nice reward to shoot for but like most things, there was no desire/need to return to them after you had achieved what you wanted.
95% of the game feels dead. There's no reason to do older content beyond getting a mount or some transmog... You buy the game? You get a free max lvl token. Quite the contrast compared to FF14 where old zones still have players gathering there even for endgame recipes, roulettes rewarding veterans for doing old dungeons, and so on.
It's sad but true. I think a roulette system in WoW would be brilliant. I do love how FFXIV keeps the old zones relevant too. I think this is somewhat WoW is trying to do for story purposes but it's very brief by comparison. You are very right. I think both games have a different ethos/philosophy. FFXIV is a story driven journey and WoW just wants you at max level immediately to focus on the 'new' stuff because as you said, the old stuff is dead now and was never built to last. It's a real shame.
Then this video won't apply to you in that sense! It's not a 'one size fits all' video. It's designed to explore reasons as to why some people don't enjoy it anymore. I recommend reading the description and watching it first, as I state that there are many many people still having fun, including me! Glad to hear that you're enjoying it.
I think having challenges is great, but my mind always jumps to how it's going to come across for new players or players who don't have much experience with WoW. It's difficult too because as the expansions go on, Blizzard have to find new places for them to start; beginning on Exile's Reach and then going into BFA etc. Now it's Exile's Reach into Dragonflight, and I think that might be quite advanced for new players who want to check it out.
Haha! He oddly reminds me of Thor with his new look! Whilst a lot of people really do hate the whole 'cry baby Anduin', I'm really excited to see how he develops in The War Within. I hope it won't be too samey and if anything can be a bit more darker and serious.
The game used to be made for the players. Then a bunch of people got hired because they checked boxes and expressed very important opinions. Then Blizzard got outed for being degens, which opened the door for the activists who had been hired to take control. Now the game is being designed to please the activists who make and adversary so AGAINST the players. Just look at how many gratuitous and hamfisted gay side quests were added in Dragonflight. Romance was usually not highly focused upon prior to this, but in Shadowlands and Dragonflight a giant spotlight has been shown on it and almost all of it is gay. Because the game is designed to please the activist creators and frustrate the chud player base
Very brutal assessment but there is some truth there. It's a real shame that none of the original team members are around anymore, because I feel that character development has suffered dramatically. Some obviously had to go though, Afrasiabi etc. I feel that the current team just simply don't understand the characters at times, and a lot of people question if they even play the game, because some decisions can be so random and feel very left-field. I'm absolutely fine with the romance/emotive stuff personally. I feel if we can see that in TV shows and other video games, it definitely can have a place in WoW too. But you are right in the sense that we didn't see this kind of stuff 5-10 years ago. It was more of a heavy metal vibe. I recommend checking out my 'Mourned Identity' video if you haven't seen it. I think you will relate a lot to that. It's really tricky when the conversation becomes about agenda and tick boxes, but it's something that players feel is quite prevalent in recent years. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts and feelings.
This seems like cope. I still enjoy Classic Era and Classic on private servers such as Turtle wow. The game and audience changed with it, it's no longer an RPG. Season of Discovery also proves the retail mentality in the game. I think it needs a total reset ala World of Warcraft 2, a game where addons are bannable and keeping the woke stuff/awful lore away from the game (The last point is virtually impossible with Nu-Blizzard).
I'm not sure if cope is the right word. A lot of people still enjoy various versions of WoW. The video is designed to just explore why certain players don't enjoy it anymore. It doesn't reflect my views on the game. I still enjoy retail (although I did have issues with Dragonflight's story) and I've played Classic/SoD too and had fun with those. The game has absolutely changed and I agree that the RPG elements have been swept aside. I agree with your thoughts on SoD and a WoW 2 seems inevitable. I think it will hinge on how well the Worldsoul Saga performs. I definitely stand with you in the camp of banning addons at this point. The 'woke' stuff is a difficult conversation because of the world we live in today. I talk about this in another video of mine 'The Mourned Identity' if you're interested in checking that out. WoW used to be this sort of 'heavy metal' MMO and it feels like its lost that. I have no issues with emotion in WoW or being made to feel something, but I do understand where you're coming from and I know you're not alone with these thoughts. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings!
@@edd_TV Thanks for the kind response! :) In terms of what I mean by woke I do not mean that I can't feel emotion or that quests should be emotionless. What I mean is that World of Warcraft (like many other games) used to be an escape from the real world, now you are reminded by it. And modern sensibilities change all the time. One particular thing is that classic at times is more woke than modern retail. While a trans character in Shadowlands shows that the creators "think correctly" but it does not say anything truly political. It is lip-service. In Classic the Defias storyline is quite captivating. A union striking that threatens the status quoe in the city. I think that World of Warcraft, retail atleast. Is no longer made for me. A shame really since I played up until WoD basically.
@@andrewjackson7511 You're welcome. I appreciate your engagement! You make some very good points with both realism and storylines such as the Defias. I think the Defias storyline is really memorable and slept on! It's very difficult to know who WoW is for these days. A lot of people suggest they are just checking boxes for their agendas and it's more of a machine these days than something authentic. I think The War Within will hopefully provide a lot of answers on this but lip-service is a very strong and valid phrase! I think WoD is a good example to look back on, when you compare what the basis of WoD was and where we're at today, and just how much the tone and narrative has changed. It speaks volumes.
It's not necessarily that WoW or gaming in general were better back then (they were), the issue is a product of the fact that gaming has become so mainstream and sweaty for lack of a better term. Looking up every detail about a game and having spreadsheets typed up before the game was even out used to be something only basement dwelling neckbeards did; everyone else just jumped into a new game and learned as they played.
Yeah, I agree. It's just the common rule of 'If players can do it, they will do it'. And there's nothing wrong with that, but it does feel quite tiresome.
Wow, what a video! You made so many wonderful points! Some that I am in 100% agreement, and some that I would accept with a condition or a caveat. I will have to rewatch it to make a coherent response. Thank you for the recommendation to watch this!
Thank you for watching! I would be very interested to hear your deeper thoughts, as I know what I say isn't gospel and we all interpret and play the game differently! There isn't a 'one size fits all' and I think it's important that we all acknowledge that. Thanks again for watching and your support!
Deck: 1. Social aspect (old school vs retail). 2. Game changing 3. us changing 4. meta knowledge (wowhead, datamining) 5. running a dungeon for loot vs exploration 6. forced engagement with content 7. streamlining of content 8. classic being time portal 9. ilvl score and death of fun 10. excessive grind 11. optimized gaming Points I would like to add I. content bloat II. visually busy III. community / friends post scriptum: personal story about time, friendship and work.
1. Social aspect (old school vs retail). Social aspect has been without a doubt optimized out of the game. Unless you are raiding mythic 25 or some form of tight PvP premade, you have no to very little need for social interactions. Almost all quests can be done solo, and quests overall have lesser impact on your leveling experience. I'd argue that the game reflects the post-social media world, where gratification is instant and you are the sole hero of your own story. Wow forgot it's roots as a DnD in Azeroth or a hero fantasy from Warcraft 3. There are many reasons for this, but most apparent to name are: level boosts, LFR, no fun allowed class/gear/gameplay optimization, irrelevance of crafting and the endless grind that can be done solo.
3. us changing. yes, but! While it is true that us (the wow "boomers") that remember the launch in 2004 have moved on, there are a lot of people in WoW that aren't that old or have the kind of responsibilities you describe. Yet those people have similar gripes about the game irregardless of the rose tinted glasses that some newer players might accuse us to be wearing when talking about Vanilla or TBC. I worked since I was 16, meaning 7 hours of school and 4-8 hours of work, I didn't have the 12 hours to spare to farm something crazy in Vanilla, but while we changed, the pace of change in the game is even more visible. What I would point out is, that while in Vanilla, TBC or Wotlk you had to grind to get the best gear, the time required was nowhere near the time requirement that you have in the game nowadays to get full BIS. This endless threadmill of content is what some people are so put off by, and espouse the virtues of old WoW in lieu of Retail. If you are interested I can offer examples for comparison. What I agree with is that the game was more fun back then because of friends that played, but I will expand on the topic in a later point.
It's a very tricky subject, but there is definitely a careful discussion to be had about it. I know the story of Dragonflight and the way WoW is perceived generally in recent times has upset a lot of players. I talk about it a lot in my 'Mourned Identity' video if you're interested in checking that out; how Warcraft has gone from being the 'heavy metal' of MMO's to what it is now.
@@DryzualThese are the times we're living in, yeah. I often draw from Disney and Star Wars when it comes to agendas; as a die hard Star Wars fan I was furious with what they did with the sequels. I had no problem with Rey as a female lead, but it was the character development (or lack of it) that really did it in for me. I think it's all about execution. There is nothing wrong with gay questlines/characters in WoW or whatever but a lot of people think it's excessive. I think for me the question is: why are we seeing all of this now? Whether that be gay characters or romance in the cutscenes etc. There's nothing wrong with any of it, but it's suddenly appeared in abundance which leads believe to believe they are just box ticking at this point, and that steers them away from the game.
I'm going to be real. I'm a story person. I think the game isn't fun to people because the combat is dated and sucks now, and I think most wow killers died. Because they copy Wows dated combat. Just to give example. Look at destiny, for a third person game. Their are tons of good 3d person rpgs. In dragon flight. People where flipping out over holding a button for a spell. Bitch! That's in Minecraft! Your telling Wow just got that! Also I think new content is added in a bad way. Like playing as a goblin shouldn't be made to be linked to Classic. Also you have the dated story telling, and Reforged being bad fucked them. Btw Asmon says that raids are to punishing and they need more players. I assume you agree with that. Btw I think you should have Single play, Normal, and Hard.
I still think WoW's combat is probably better than any other MMORPG, it's a real selling point I think. Blizzard have always been known for 'copying' other MMO's too and essentially making better products. Everybody talks about how they 'stole' Dragonriding from Guild Wars 2 etc. I do agree with pretty much everything you say here, and yeah I think Mythic is too much in regards to how hard it is and needing static 20 players. I would never raid Mythic again personally, not unless they introduced a 10 man version of it.
@@edd_TV i tried the free tial during bfa. I started as a dwarf ranger and then a undead warlock. I started with a dwarf and was just standing bored. Then I switched to undead. Still bored. A goblin on a motorcycle passed me by, and it gave me an existential crisis, and I closed the game. The thing is wow isn’t competing with mmos anymore. They’re competing to Fortnight.
@@Hot_SpicyGrill The tone definitely has shifted quite a lot in recent times. I'm not sure who WoW are competing with or if that's something they even think about anymore. Most people would just compare them to Disney at this stage I think.
@@edd_TV Oh I forgot to connect those ideas. Sorry. Multiplayer games and there technolgy have gotten so much better. That the line between a MMO and Multiplayer game is extremally thin and no longer maters to most players. Now Plunder storm looked pretty dope. So we could see combat over haul. I mean why play Wow when you could play on a Minecraft sever.
"The elitism that spawned from retail" buddy are you high? Have you ever PLAYED on a private server? And by the by, classic really doesn't appeal to retail players, there's not alot of player bleed between them.
I don't play private servers, no, but they are to blame too of course. I would probably say I've misspoken there by blaming retail outright. It's no secret that retail has become a nicer place since Classic started, but it would be ignorant to suggest retail has/had zero toxicity or elitism. It's something that exists in every corner of WoW. It almost feels like a 'chicken and the egg' situation at this point and it was wrong of me to solely blame retail. I of course acknowledge that it exists everywhere. The gatekeeping is so profound in every version of WoW now, and that's so sad. Your latter comment is something I've seen a lot with my friends. Since Classic has come out, they will likely never return to retail again now. And that makes me sad, but I understand it. I think it's good that there are so many different versions of the game and people can just play their favourites.
Blizzard didn't optimize the fun out of the game players did. Nostalgia and being children definitely affected why people used to have fun and now don't. But you also have to consider the competition. The new generation of gamers isn't getting raised on these slow grindy games like MMOs they're playing mainly survival games orr extraction shooters games or battle royale games. The type of slow exploration gameplay style has fallen heavily out favor. You mentioned veterans knowing what we can expect for The War Within. Of course we do. The games been out 20 years. They've changed classes multiple times, they just revamped professions, they even revamped the leveling and flight systems recently. All that said, the actual core gameplay can't be expected to be changed. People play wow for wow, whether that's raiding with their friends or doing world quests in a cutesy cartoon game and collecting mountains of cosmetics. If blizzard just decided to upend their formula for success they'd fail. And that's what all modern games are, formulaic. You might not understand the formula or algorithm but they all have one if you want to optimize the fun out. This commentary piece could have been about 4 mins shorter without losing relevant points, you said kids played for 10-12 hours a day like that was a regular occurrence after school, all of your points circle around the three points commonly beat to death ( nostalgia for classic, gamers too focused on going fast for endgame, game is predictable based on expacs adding zones dungeons raids). I'd give your piece here a 3/10.
I wasn’t expecting a grade lol, but thanks for watching all the same. I’m not expecting nor asking for the core gameplay to change. I have no problems with the way World of Warcraft is. The video is designed to explain why some people may have fallen out of love with it and attempts to explore why that may be. It doesn't apply to everybody and by no means is the silver bullet or means I'm right. This video doesn’t necessarily reflect my views either, which is pretty obvious I would say.
That is very true with their philosophy of borrowed power and the era of Legion-Shadowlands. It was designed to keep players engaged and subscribed, and it ultimately drove a lot of players away. It's never fun when the game feels like a job.
I know all the reasons why i quit. Lfr, lfg, the casualisation of content, accesibility qol and streamlining aka " its too hard mommy make it easy for me mommy" alt friendlyness, heirlooms, catch up gear, shared reputations, crossfaction play, cash shop, token, bots and addons solving the game for you. Need i go on?
I lived for two months a year alone and during my univeristy ears outside of two months yearly testing period i didnt even attend half of the hours i had classes scheduled for. Half was enough to learn to pass the tests and in the last year i had even more time since masters thesis writers had half a year basically only to write and reasearch for their masters thesis... No classes... Only montyly checkups with the promotor. Anyway. After finishing uni i went to work on my own business which meant i assigned my own hours. The only reason why wow is disliked is how much it was twisted into a mobile like brainless lobby game with the illusion of mmorpg around it. You dont have to explore and level and those who did are suckers because now its skipped through in two days to a week. Im sorry but if you make mmo and you want to appeal to the pencildicks who think mmorpgs start at endgame then you are not making an mmorpg no more. Its not an mmorpg because the rpg part is the slowly leveling part, exploring, adventuring and slowly growing in power.
@@86CorvusThank you for sharing! Some good points. It’s obviously not something that applies to everybody, but more reasons as to why certain players may have fallen out of love with the game. Not everybody is going to feel this way because we all enjoy different things. Some think WoW is great still and some don’t and that’s why they prefer classic. It’s just the nature of the beast.
We really are. It's a big part of it, for sure! I'd never sit here and deny that WoW hasn't changed because it clearly has, but our growth, mindset and goals are also responsible for the way we view the game now too.
That dungeon pull is a great example of why the game sucks. developers trying to make things easier for the casuals because casuals dont learn or get better so the bar is being lowered. Casuals kept dying from small pulls so blizz made it easier to tank. So players who are good started to pull more packs at once because they can. This made casuals look bad again because they did not improve and so they can only handle one pack now and badly. So blizzard makes it easier to tank... So good players pull all the mobs at once and keep moving forward to pull more. Meanwhile the casual can now deal with that one pack easily because now mobs are so weak it doesnt even matter if the tank or healer are in the group at all! And so no matter what you do to keep the casual invited into groups he never will be seen as an asset and you only degenerate the game experience into speedrunning a boring dungeon pulling everything i sight because it poses no threat including the bosses! You ruined the game, people leave i droves, and you still dont understand why is noone having fun.
Im sorry, how dare you tell me what i love most about the game still exists? IS LEVELING TAKING A YEAR? NO? Then im sorry but being max level takes a week and is literally meaningless.
I think that's an unrealistic expectation given the direction and format of the game. Levelling will never be a long process again because of an expansion's features and Blizzard wanting people to participate in it, but you can still enjoy questing and levelling in any of the zones regardless of experience gains/increases. It all still exists. It's how you choose to perceive it and what you are expecting in return from it. If all you care is is experience gains then that's all questing is going to be for you.
@@edd_TV Delusional. Blizzard employees think the exact way you do, reduced the leveling to a joke and it costs them dearly. If they were right the game would have more players now than when the leveling was long, not less. Classis prooves it.
Yea they added crap to it. Some of it could be permanent most of it broke the game, but hey, its sasonal so its ok right?! Wrong. If im gonna loose all this progress im making and/or im asked to start over because they added a thingamabob here and there im sorry but im not doing it. I already made a character, he is important to me im not gonna treat it aa disposable. I dont treat myself and my time as disposable!
Just to clarify, I still do enjoy WoW and this video does not apply to all WoW players and doesn't reflect my views. It's obvious that so many people still really love WoW! This video is designed to be thought-provoking and attempt to explore why some people may not enjoy it anymore. It may not apply to you. This isn't a 'one size fits all' video and I encourage you to give the video a chance before commenting. With all my videos I try to stay mostly objective and echo the consensus to discuss about, rather than make a pure opinion piece where there's no room for anything else. It's all in the balance. These videos are all for discussion, entertainment and opinion, so whether you have quit WoW or are still loving it, please leave a comment explaining why!
"designed to be thought-provoking"
How courageous..
@@acrosswater9041 Haha, you have no idea the amount of times people have pulled me up on that and have said I'm asking for a miracle when asking WoW players to think critically. It's a really tricky one because I want to have these conversations regarding identification, why people feel the way they do and so on, but some people can't remove emotion or are blinded by specific agendas. It makes it really challenging to have these discussions. Some people will hate for the sake of hating and it is the internet after all, so it's kinda a 'come what may' situation. It's really great when people do take a step back though and really think about how we perceive things to be or how we engage with the game. I find it fascinating.
@@edd_TV I'm gonna be honnest, I didn't watch the video when I commented and I apologize for that, I'm just used to the overall negativity surrounding the game because ragebait is the trend for a large amount of youtubers.
But I disagree that WoW players aren't able to think critically, I'd say they think MUCH too critically. Taking into account that people rarely just go somewhere to say "I'm happy with how things are". I truly believe that like in most game, the negativity is more often than not a loud minority. Not to say that criticism isn't warranted but I'm so tired of, for example, farming a rare for a mount, go to Wowhead and see people bitching about the spawn being 1-6 hours, saying that it's a shame for Blizzard to make people wait for such things even though those same people would cry if that reward was given easily.
People cry about free things, hard things, time gated things, too much content, not enough content, repetitiveness, innovation.. They want the illusion of choice but end up choosing what's best for their character.
As another exemple, today I spammed for 2 hours a message to have 3 people help me summon some rares to get an item to summon a big baddy for a mount. I ended up having to pay people to help me because no one was willing to help me.
Fast forward a couple of hours, I saw someone in the group finder trying to get people to summon those same rares. I ended up joining despite the fact that I already had my loot just to be nice ! We didn't manage to find people but I told him that tomorrow I'd be able to summon the big baddy for him if he wants, we talked a bit, joked, he thanked me and sent me a friend request. To me that's the most WoW thing that happened this I joined back and it has nothing to do with the content itself, it's just
And I thought that this video was just going to be about how WoW failed those people, I'm glad I was wrong. WoW has failed, sometimes but I can hardly blame "them", it's a 20 years old game that had to evolve like everyone else. The fact that the game is still alive today and I can see new player is to me a sign that the game can still be fun, it's just up to the individual. @edd_TV I'm gonna be honnest, I didn't watch the video when I commented and I apologize for that, I'm just used to the overall negativity surrounding the game because ragebait is the trend for a large amount of youtubers.
But I disagree that WoW players aren't able to think critically, I'd say they think MUCH too critically. Taking into account that people rarely just go somewhere to say "I'm happy with how things are". I truly believe that like in most game, the negativity is more often than not a loud minority. Not to say that criticism isn't warranted but I'm so tired of, for example, farming a rare for a mount, go to Wowhead and see people bitching about the spawn being 1-6 hours, saying that it's a shame for Blizzard to make people wait for such things even though those same people would cry if that reward was given easily.
People cry about free things, hard things, time gated things, too much content, not enough content, repetitiveness, innovation.. They want the illusion of choice but end up choosing what's best for their character.
As another exemple, today I spammed for 2 hours a message to have 3 people help me summon some rares to get an item to summon a big baddy for a mount. I ended up having to pay people to help me because no one was willing to help me.
Fast forward a couple of hours, I saw someone in the group finder trying to get people to summon those same rares. I ended up joining despite the fact that I already had my loot just to be nice ! We didn't manage to find people but I told him that tomorrow I'd be able to summon the big baddy for him if he wants, we talked a bit, joked, he thanked me and sent me a friend request. To me that's the most WoW thing that happened this I joined back and it has nothing to do with the content itself.
Take my like :)
@@acrosswater9041 Haha, that's absolutely fine. I appreciate your honesty and taking the time to type this up!
I see where you're coming from there and I very much agree with you in that sense. I suppose maybe I'm talking on more of a deeper level, like looking inside themselves and asking what makes them feel happy or fulfilled or why they do the things they do. I think players generally speaking are very critical and in turn that has made WoW not a nice place to be at times with the toxicity and gatekeeping that exists within the game. It isn't everywhere, but it does exist. I think you have summed it up perfectly in a sense. Blizzard won't ever get to win because whatever happens players are going to moan regardless. There isn't one giant tick box that satisfies everybody and players looooove to complain.
That makes me sad that you had to pay people to help you. That's really commendable of you to help somebody else and the game needs more players like you. Manners and kindness cost absolutely nothing. That story was really heart-warming and definitely gives me the feels of days gone by. Thanks again for taking the time to type this up, it was a great read. And thank you for engaging with the video and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate that.
I can relate to optimizing the fun out of a game. Once that happens, the game is virtually a job at that point.
It's all about identification. The game is for sure demanding but some of it is just self-inflicted these days.
@@edd_TV so the game isnt demanding... you must tyranize yourself instead while every tom dick and harry takes the easy way around. Just because people gravitate towards the path of least resistance doesnt mean that its more fun than whe there was more resistance. and by offering someone an easy route or a fun route, you essentially poison the fun route because you are asking someone to handicap themselves to have fun and the very act of having to do that makes the challenge unfun because you arent competing with all players in said challenge but you are the one whos actually expected to punish himself just to feel something again...
Modern wow is DEGENERATE and you have to be blind not to recognize that.
I was a mythic raider and high keys on m+been playing since 2008 but then one day I got burnt out and I wasn’t having fun and realized I haven’t been for a while now. So I concentrated on getting away from the meta and became a collector. Now I have 40k+ achievement,1002 mounts, 887 toys and every pet in the game minus a couple of blizzcon murlocs. And best part is I’m happy. Play the game how you want to don’t listen to anyone but yourself and you can spend the time doing something you love or like instead of something you feel forced to do.
I felt the same during Shadowlands. There were obviously so many dark points about Shadowlands, but I was progging Castle Nathria and we were about 8/10M and I just thought to myself 'What's the point? I'm not enjoying this.' I just felt compelled to play, it was so routine to me and I really had to break that cycle. I'm so jealous of your collections! I'm sitting around 34k-ish achievement points and just got the 500 mounts achievement courtesy of WoW Remix! It's great you had the awareness to make the changes needed to find happiness within the game still. Identifying the problem can sometimes be the hardest part. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings!
There's an angle that also needs to be considered: the story. I was a roleplayer first, everything else second. Yes, I quested and did dungeons, but I did it primarily to immerse in the story. I first left because I hit a tough financial spot. I had planned to return, but then my friends also left. By the time I had gotten to a better place, BfA happened and it left a strange taste. I could still be a fan but I stopped really wanting to explore it.
Then Shadowlands happened and... yeah.
Dragonflight wasn't bad but it also solidified what I had come to accept: it wasn't for me anymore. More power to those who enjoy it, but I am so sick of shallow, sizzle-reel MCU moments and heartfelt family therapy sessions. I fell in love with it when it was about being badass, heroic, monstrous, tragic, and larger than life.
At least Iridikron is a cool villain, but all the rest just leave me feeling hollow.
I definitely changed, too. I won't cop out of that. After I left, I started to really appreciate stories that had a beginning, a middle, and most importantly, an *end*. Our media has become so consumed by the need to prop up shows for as many seasons and sequels and prequels and spinoffs and on and on and on that it has left me mentally exhausted. WoW feels tired, and the fact that the design philosophy going forward *was* stated to take its queue from the MCU was heartbreaking.
Shadowlands was extremely jarring. I can understand where you're coming from there and I empathise. I played WoW primarily for the story. I wasn't a roleplayer but I loved the story and it was hugely important to me. I can relate to what you're saying with Dragonflight too. I tried to invest myself in it but something felt off, and I can't quite figure out what. I don't want to put it down to being a 'story for children' or 'disney' or something like that. I just didn't feel the story was remotely gripping. Maybe it was the Dragon Aspects. It's really hard to say. I think you are bang on the money with the MCU correlations. A lot of people preferred it when it was heavy metal. If you read this reply, I recommend you check out my video 'The Mourned Identity'. I think you will relate a lot! Thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and experiences!
I have had such a great time playing the game in the 12ish years I've been a part of it using an extremely simple method: I don't play if I'm not having fun. Even in the worst times there is almost always something to do, and when there isn't I'm fine with taking a break for a few months.
That's a very healthy and sensible way of looking at it. I can't really sum it up better. I think fomo is a big part of it all too. If something stops being fun then you absolutely should take a break, but some people feel as though they have to continue otherwise they may miss out on certain rewards etc.
hey, guess what, most people who quit do exactly that, they dont play because theyre not having fun.
I have been this game since vanilla, still hyping with it… hell i bought the pre-purchase war within.
My family and friends has been asking me why are you still playing a game for more than 15+ years?
You video was a simple explanation, i grow up with this game, im now a father to 2 girls, i play wow because i having my own fun in it, i actually also release all my life stress because its a video game that i can have my freedom.
Saying that, my family and my friends got hooked to the game now, and it the most fun i had since i started wow, i mean my wife and my work colleagues are with me online , bunch of grown adults enjoying the laughs and adventures
So i keep telling people, its a game and the purpose of it is to have fun, no one is forcing you to play it, you dont like it leave it
It's really amazing, isn't it? I've had the same questions. I've even had conversations with my mother who remembers buying World of Warcraft Game Cards for me when I was a teenager. It's honestly incredible the game is still going and thriving more than ever with various versions these days! It's a massive part of our lives. I think that's really great that your family have grown to love the game too. You'll create some great memories together!
You're absolutely right. It's all about having fun and if you don't like it, you can take a break or play something else! I think sometimes people struggle with identification and why they aren't enjoying things like they used to. Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts, feelings and experiences. It was a very heart-warming read!
100% Agree. There are multiple factors & for me personally myself changing over time is a main one.
That's why I've blocked out any & all spoilers, I don't want to know what's going to happen, I want to find out & try get back that feeling, not just switching off as soon as I start playing.
I think that's very important. It's so tricky these days because there is so much stuff that exists and we consume so much via social media for example. It's really difficult to stay spoiler free in anything. It really ruins a lot of the mystique and this is something players are so critical of. They want the mystery and the adventure, but everything is already out there ready to be consumed or read up on. I think that's a really commendable way to play. Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts and feelings!
One thing that helped WoW in the 2000s a lot was the social aspect. But that’s gone now. Some can blame new systems like LFD and LFR, and while I somewhat agree that those additions have been detrimental in a way, I believe the main cause is the rise of social media. If you wanted to hang out online you could do it completely in game, it was a perfect stage for something like a Halo 2/3 Xbox lobby. But smartphones and social media started taking all those conversations and interactions outside the game delivered in a far more instant gratification manner. And now at this point in the games life almost a full 20 years from launch the player base has become insanely talented at perfecting the gameplay. The top end world first guys are beyond gigabrain and that would be ok if that mindset stayed at the top end but it doesn’t. Very average players will see what the top guys are playing and then demand that their own groups do the exact same thing even though the disparity in play quality is wider than the Grand Canyon. The group finder will demand MDI comps and strats without anywhere close to the level of skill of the people who created it all. Back in the day it was totally fine that a raid like vanilla Naxx came out and only 1% saw it but now there’s so much entitlement that’s been built up in our modern culture that Blizz could never even think about doing something exclusive like that. WoW changed because the mindset of the people playing it changed because the culture and society outside the game changed. We can never go back to the way it was but in recent years Blizzard has seemed to learn how to best please as many people as they can by introducing so many different game modes between retail, classic, classic hc, classic sod, and now seasonal fun events like plunder storm and mop remix that all fall under the umbrella of the same $15 a month sub. WoW had to evolve with the gaming times and while some evolutions were very painful others were definitely more positive. Lots of old players have left but the game still draws in an insane amount of newcomers trying it out. WoW isn’t dying anytime soon for sure even if it understandably became unrecognizable to some of the long term old school guys who grew up and grew out of it.
Really, really great comment. You have summed up everything really well here. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and feelings.
*"WoW changed because the mindset of the people playing it changed because the culture and society outside the game changed"*
That's the key sentence in your overall great comment. This sentiment carries over to the remake debate. I think that's the main reason why a lot of OG players can't really enjoy the remakes as much as they want to. Like the Greek philosopher Heraklit said "You can't bathe in the same waters twice." That's why managing your expectations is so important. When you're a fan of the OG and you want to play the remake, going into the game with the right mindset i.e. managing your expectations and appreciate the remake for what it is, you won't probably be as disappointed as with the mindset that the remake must evoke the exact same feeling you had playing the OG game back in the day. That's a recipe for disappointment.
Many years have passed now since I got burned out on WoW and MMO's in general, I used to search for games that would give me that old feeling of "the good old days", but I have accepted that I wont find it again sadly :) I have a family and house and other responsibilities now, what little free time I have now mostly go to single player games.
I very fondly remember the good old days in the Everlasted guild, they were some of the best moments in my gaming life. Now I just hope I will find some game/games to play with my son some day when he's older :)
Big up Everlasted! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and memories Tev!
Phenomenal video! I have been playing wow hardcore since WoD, raiding and doing raids for gold. But I've burned out during BfA.
Year ago I somehow decided to return but only with one rule in mind - no hardcore. So, I started to play casually and... oh boy, what a joy it is! Understanding that everything will eventually end, and you don't need to be "the first" to play is amazing. I slowly reading quests, talk to people, do LfR and M+ and feeling that I am doing all right, no pressure. I have good gear, I see the story and all the content at my own pace. Simply great .
Same problem was with Plunderstorm. People were forcing themselves to play it for "rewards", they don't understand that playing it itself was a reward. Uhh
Glad it resonated with you so well! Thanks for watching!
RAGNAROK ONLINE MUSIC!!!!!!! This man is a true MMO player
I'm glad you recognised it! Thanks for watching!
@@edd_TV it's the only game I've played as much as WoW lol
Wish it had gained more attention in North America. Such a pleasant surprise to hear it in your video.
I was brought here by Pyromancer, he just covered it on stream btw
@@hyperstimmed I have so much love for RO! I was a Blacksmith! I used to love setting up my shop in Prontera and just chatting and meeting new people. Such timeless memories. Oh that's really kind of him! I hope it was enjoyed. Thank you for engaging with the video, I appreciate that!
I've noticed this. I am older, I have a better idea of how I want to spend my free time. WoW is still enjoyable to me, but my focus has shifted. I'm no longer bothered about chasing for gear and doing tough as nails raiding. Now I just want to enjoy the story, slow my pace, take in the environment. And I'm not afraid to take breaks to go play something else for a while.
I think that's the best mentality to have, Luke. I think we have all been guilty of going really hard at WoW at one point in our lives, and I don't think we regret it either! But it obviously wasn't sustainable as we grew older. I feel the same as you do. Whilst I still enjoy pushing keys in retail and so on, I very much do just want to do what I want to do; farm achievements, collect things etc. I think your final sentence as well is extremely important and I think it's something a lot of WoW players struggle with. They feel compelled to play the game regardless of what state or shape its in and won't play anything else. It's something I think FFXIV does really well. FFXIV and Square Enix will encourage you to take breaks and play other games, whereas the philosophy of WoW appears to be more fomo so you feel stuck. There are so many great games out there right now, I shamefully still need to start FF7 Rebirth. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings, as always!
@@edd_TV Funny you should mention it, I think it was playing through FFXIV that taught me to savour the experience of simply just playing. It sounds daft to say it out loud, but it is something we need to remind ourselves about, that games are supposed to be fun and that our idea of fun changes over the years.
I've only just gotten around to playing the first FF7R game, thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm stubbornly waiting for the Steam release for Rebirth!
@@LukeStrife I definitely have plans to release a video about that in the future about how FFXIV changed my perspective of how I play/played WoW. I think XIV changes a lot of people's perspectives on other games! Glad to hear you're having a blast with FF7R!
You just put into words everything I've been thinking about WoW for years now.
Glad to hear it resonated well with you. Thanks for watching!
Loved the video man, I agree with majority of everything you said. WoW as well as anything someone chooses to do for fun is going to be more enjoyable when you choose to engage with it the way that appeals to you most/actually go into it with the intention of having fun and looking for things you enjoy in it.
I do a bit of everything personally. PvE, PvP, Mog/Mount Collecting, socializing, enjoying the stories/zones, a bit of mild RP, etc. And i still get pretty strong endgame with my toons, as early Mythic+ keys, lfr/normal difficulty raids, pvp, and other ways you can get gear thats pretty good even if not the absolute top gear you can have. And personally I find that fun enough. And i do it without following metas, such as specific talent builds, using addons like WA/DBM, or taking the game too seriously.
I don't think it's wrong if some people want to follow the meta, or do that highest tier end game content. But it would be nice if some people understood vice versa, not everyone wants/needs to do that to enjoy the game.
Personally I think people should just enjoy it however they may and let others enjoy it how they choose. Different strokes for different folks. Cause as you said and we all know, fun is subjective.
I have played WoW since I was a kid, almost for 20 yrs now off and on. There's been things I disliked that they've done as well as stuff I've thoroughly enjoyed. Playing WoW in so many different states it's been in, and retail doesn't have some of the things that older iterations may have... But tbh, being an adult working to provide for my family, retail has so much I can do with very little time invested. Call it easier, more convenient or whatever. But when trying to play anything before maybe Cata, is so slow and I feel I never progress anything in the amount of time I have to offer to the game. And being so much more alt friendly like WoW is now as an altaholic with little time to play the game, who also enjoys so many different activities in the game... Retail is just what I enjoy and am happy playing the most. And I wish that older/ex players of WoW would just give retail/its players a break and stop hounding anyone just cause they enjoy retail. I respect if someone doesn't enjoy it and it'd be nice to get the same courtesy from people who prefer it in it's classic form or aren't fans of the current game.
Rant over. Love the video again. Keep it up. 🙏🔥
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and your experiences! I think you said it best with 'Different strokes for different folks.' There really isn't a 'one size fits all' for something like this, and we're all so very different and have fun in different ways. I really appreciate your engagement and support with the video. Your passion is admirable and I love the way you speak of the game. Thanks again! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Been playing since January 2006 (Mid Vanilla). I was 16 back then. The game was much more than a game for me until MoP. I used to raid with top 200-250 ww guilds (Genesis - Silvermoon, Brethren - Lightning's blade). During MoP, It was the first time that I thought about quitting, because: 1) I felt that the game had changed dramatically, 2) most of my friends left the game back then and 3) I was about to finish my bachelor's degree and start my Master's, so I couldn't be online for 5-7 hours every day. But the whole world changed and that is the main problem, I think. People nowadays, instead of working less with the rapid development of technology, have to work more in order to cover their needs.... The system grinds and crushes us for more profit and a game like WoW, which used to need time devotion and energy, is oudated..
I very much agree with you. I encountered the exact same problems/challenges, it's hard to find the correct word. It is just life I think. The world absolutely did change though and it's important we acknowledge that. It's not possible to point the blame at one individual thing I think, it's a combination of a lot of different things that ultimately changed everything forever. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and your memories with the game!
Agree with so many points. I think for most online games playing with friends make it much more enjoyable and keeps you active.
I think so too. I think you can make anything fun with the right people!
1. I do have fun:
- Good storylines (when they are good)
- Incredible music and art
- Challenges such as myth raiding
- I just like pressing buttons
2. I don't have fun when the game design is bad. Good thing now it's improving.
Glad to hear it! This video isn't calling everybody out, it's more a video essay for people who feel they can't find enjoyment in the game anymore and attempts to explore why that may be. I do agree with you though! Whilst the story has been disappointing in recent years, it has always been the biggest draw for me. And the art team and music has just been phenomenal throughout, even in the darkest times they have been superb. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
@@edd_TV 🎉😊
@@edd_TV Sadly they leaned too much in a soap opera direction, wow lost a lot of musculinity. Even the new Khadgar's face proves that 🤌😂 I recently thought why I like Khadgar so much.
And the answer is pretty much the same for Gendalf. Musculonity. Standing for something. Stoiciam, being competent, serving not only themselves.
The music and art have usually been a fixed point of wonderful quality in WoW.
I'm late to the party, but I'm glad to see you're still making videos! Keep it up Edd!!!
Thank you for the support!
I've played wow since launch and I mostly only play classic and sometimes retail. I love the early to mid level progression. Just leveling does it for me so I make tons of alts.
My current goal is to make enough alts with all thr professions and basically make all my gear solo. I love soloing classic at a slow pace.
I think levelling in classic is one of the most satisfying things the game has to offer. It's definitely my favourite part of classic. That's a big goal you have planned!
I played from Vanilla to WoD before quitting. I now set up a private vanilla server to play with my wife and kids. It is still as much fun as I remember. Much more than I enjoyed everything after Wrath.
That's really great. You can relive your old memories and create new ones with your family! Thanks for sharing!
I also several years ago started with WOTLK era and cata those were golden times
Also our possibilities and freedom have changed, when you are an adult you can do much more stuff. Because you have money and freedom. Friday night as a kid, you can only play, you can't go out drinking. Or do bungee jumping on the weekend.
That's actually a very good point! I think with both growing up and having a job too only fueled Blizzard's idea of introducing the WoW token. They know their audience well and the age demographic; players are older now, they have less time...but more money. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
@@edd_TV I love the token, no more using gold sellers.You can't make me grind gold, I would quit the game. Meanwhile my cousin loves farming gold and the token gives her a purpose.
@@nikroth I was initially very much against the idea of the WoW token. I was always of the belief that things should be 'earned', but as time has gone on it does make much more sense. It's also very much just a 'If you can't beat them, join them' philosophy. You can't ever really stop gold sellers. I've never bought WoW tokens personally, but during lockdown I did actually farm several of them so I could buy the Shadowlands epic edition for free, haha.
I think that's a good comparison with your cousin too. The WoW token may be for you and it's easy and accessible, and then here are other people such as your cousin who prefer to farm it and earn it. I suppose again it comes down to mindset, right? How do you want to get things done? etc. It all makes you think!
@@edd_TV Absolutely. There are always services that people buy, in some games it's gold. In others, boosting. People are buying services to get you out of ELO hell in LOL for example.
And if there is a weekly gold cap, like in Lost Ark, people make many accounts to sell it...
The only working solution is real ID accounts, 1 account per person, and if you get banned, it's over.
I am an Old. As a lass in her 40s I was NOT a kid when WoW came out. I was in college and working a part time job. I had less free time then than I do now. But I still loved WoW because it felt like a huge virtual world I could get lost in and explore. Every achievement felt meaningful, even just leveling up, because questing and the world were dangerous. Leveling was part of the journey, not the lobby you waited in until endgame.
When Classic came out I enjoyed that very much, just like I did when I was young. I appreciated it even more as an older gamer. But since the game is so well known now it really got min/maxxed to death. People can get booted from content for NOT being engineers and this was content we were all able to clear back in the day as much more clueless gamers with worse internet connections and dumber addons. I dunno, it's sad.
That's such a brutal truth, describing it as a 'lobby you waited in until endgame'. That's really well said. You make a good point about Engineering too in Classic. It's very sad. Thank you for sharing your story, thoughts and your feelings!
This video also applies to myself and FFXIV. The main talking points are borderline spot on!
FFXIV still feels quite new to me right now as I stared late Stormblood, but absolutely you can apply it to anything!
Absolutely spot on! I still really enjoy my time in the game because of the particular community I'm in. When I too tried classic, all was well while my circle of friends remained (Playing 'retail' and classic). When BC classic launched it highlighted the issues and we went back to retail permanently. We have to admit, that players have changed and that Blizzard have been trying to cater to the mixed messages received. Dragonflight, for me personally, gives me great optimism for the future. The general populace does not.
That's great to hear. I think community is everything! What do you think changed with the jump from TBC as opposed to Classic for you? I'm totally with you there, I think Dragonflight provides huge reasons to be optimistic and I'm really excited to see what's going to happen with The Worldsoul Saga! The elitism will always exist but you hit the nail on the head, it's all about communities and finding what is right for you.
@@edd_TV At the start of classic I didn't really notice the level of 'tryhard' going on as I was in there with a mass of mates...however when BC came out, there were far fewer friends there. The chats in the general channel spamming hellfire dungeons (LFG) reminded me what I detest; Min-maxing the fun out of the game. Bit like ultra processed food really, it soon becomes crap.
I definitely still think retail is fun, but I’ll admit that I don’t enjoy playing classic because how I approach the game is not the same as it was when those expansions were first released. Retail WoW is great, but it’s not the same game it was because games evolve, and some people want that and others want the thing they love to always stay the same. Can’t please everyone
Very well said! I think there is still bags of fun to be had in retail, but it depends on what fun is to you.
Those times with everythjing before WOD was golden era times imo while others are saying WOTLK and Cata era those were too golden times
I’m currently on such a nostalgia trip with MoP Remix right now!
I completely agree about people taking the game much too seriously and feeling like they MUST play the game in this gotta-go-fast efficiency-minded way, and that Mythic+ and high end raiding is all the game has to offer. I've thought about doing a video on this myself to remind people that you can play the game however you want and it has much more to offer than those things. I will say though that the game is far from perfect and Blizzard does encourage these behaviors themselves (for example, why does Chromie Time become unavailable the moment you hit 60? Let people play in whatever expansion they want!), and I hope it's something Blizzard addresses in the future, as the director has recently said that they hope to reach more casual and midcore players in the future.
Very much agree with everything you have said. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Very interesting and true video on the situation and the ageing of the first players. I gave myself a bit too much to the end game when I was younger, in terms of raids and guild management. And my time has become more and more precious with working life and its responsibilities.
So I couldn't agree more on this state of affairs, which some naysayers seem to overlook or don't want to admit.
In my case, I continue to play WoW solely for the immersion of the universe and its narrative content, capturing in images my journey, the quests, the landscape... that's what motivates me most to continue this adventure with Blizzard entertainment. As for the end game, I now prefer to focus on PvP as an element of challenge, which I find less stressful than raiding or mythic+.
I think I was the opposite. I was quite lost in vanilla and just happy to be taking in the world and such, TBC was probably my true first taste of raiding and by the time of Wrath and Cata I was fully established and committed. Legion was the pinnacle for me I think; Legion was when I tried my hardest, and surprisingly probably had the most fun! I'm glad to hear the video resonated well with you, and thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings!
I’m having fun and enjoyed all of dragonflight. Enjoyed SL but not torghast. The end of SL and bfa were great. Dragonflight has been sick.
I quit Shadowlands during 9.1 but I came back during the end for the Fated stuff and definitely enjoyed it more. Especially because they began the new formula with bringing other Mythic+ dungeons into play, that was a really smart move! Dragonflight provides huge optimism for the future I think. Thanks for sharing your experience!
The game has changed more. I did wonder at times if my memory of Vanilla was nostalgia but recently I gave Season of Discovery a go and right from the start the Vanilla game play model worked until some of the retail additions popped up and it was clear as day how the retail model ruined the game.
All the problems you raise come down to poor game design and could be fixed if Blizzard wanted to, but the current model is about making money not a good game.
It's definitely a bit of both for me. I had fun with my brief stint in SoD. I did Phase 1 and 2 and decided to call it a day. You are right. It's definitely more about this sort of battle-pass/seasonal/fomo approach to make money. I don't think people want the design of Classic WoW to change too much though as they feel that would ruin the spirit of the game.
I'm likely an outlier player. I picked it up when I was 16, played day/night ever since on my own schedule. School didn't get in the way, nor did work (worked from home). The game changed, not me.
I used to read quests, collect transmog, then SL came out and they just added what felt like 100s of recolours which were all too tedious to grind for. Compared to hitting exalted and buying 4- 5 recoloured mounts for 2K each. You'd grind once a week RNG WQs or NPC spawns... just stupid. Just to keep you subscribed.
It moved away from being able to grind and achieve your goal for the effort you put in, to the game gatekeeping objectives from you.
That's commendable of you, I respect that. I think it's so important to take in all aspects of the game and not just the typical endgame approach. I do agree with you in regards to Shadowlands. Everything felt tedious about Shadowlands in truth. Reputations have felt poor since BFA I think, possibly even more. I can just remember the reputations being important in BFA for the Allied Races. You are right though. The game is quite predatory in that sense and fomo is hugely prevalent. You can still see it now with the likes of Plunderstorm and WoW Remix. I think both of these ideas are really cool, but it's a shame they are limited time events which kind of force players hands. Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts and feelings!
With the Cata Classic pre-patch the other day, I felt the specter of falling out of love again with WoW, and it did make me think back. I stopped playing, other than to hit level cap before the next expansion came out, in mid-Legion until Classic came out.
TLDR: It's my fault and it's WoW's fault. Drama, less free time, two significant game design changes.
A lot of the faults of my losing the thrill of retail are personal: a guildie passing away; guild drama with deciding to just take December off because we already knew two or more people would be missing each week; other parts of my life limiting the number of hours I could play (if I can't put in 2-3 hours at a time, minimum, it isn't worth spending any time).
But there are parts that are WoW's fault, and it took the pre-patch to show me. There was a reason I never liked playing a warrior, rouge, or to a lesser degree a warlock back in the day: the builder/spender mechanic. Once I saw that Holy Power resource show up on my classic paladin I jumped to a shaman. And that made me realize just how much I hate that style of gameplay; it was almost instant PTSD. In retail Cata I stuck it out with the paladin, but was playing a shaman on the side, then in MoP I went full shaman and just kept the paladin leveled out of a sense of devotion (ironic). Then Legion gave the shaman Maelstorm, another builder/spender.
The other part of WoW's game design that I never liked was Challenge Mode, which evolved into Mythic+. Time-attack modes in games were always my least favorite part of any game. I'd rather gather 10,000 resources than do 5 speedruns a night.
So, I changed, and WoW changed. Sometimes relationships just aren't meant to last. Any yet, I still try to keep up on all the lore, thanks UA-camrs.
Did you try Dragonflight? I think you are right. I think we could play the blame game with who or what changed, but ultimately a lot has changed - both the game and us. A lot of it simply comes down to identification. I'm so sorry to hear about your guild member passing away. I really appreciate you taking the time to watch the video and being so candid about your experiences with the game. Your engagement with the video means a lot to me, so I appreciate that and thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings.
@@edd_TV I was excited for Dragonflight... and haven't played a second of it. That is mainly because of real life, my daughter was born a few months before launch. Though I did level up to 60 during the pre-patch event, but still didn't like how my characters played. It's like meeting up with an ex after a few years just to confirm that while it can be nice to catch up, it was the right call to break up.
WoW is still a part of my life, obviously, and I try to keep up with lore, but now it's WoW Classic for 2-4 hours on a Saturday night with my wife and friends just running dungeons and goofing off.
@@WillDawg01 Congratulations on your daughter! That's a great analogy you used there too. It's nice that you're still able to get your WoW fix with Classic, however brief it may be. Thank you for being so open and sharing your experiences and feelings!
There is only one raid I actually cleared on mythic while it was relevant and that was siege of orgrimmar after the prepatch of wod.
Before that I had a lot of fun of doing 10 man hero during cata and mop and I hate that ithey changed that system with wod.
I played Mythic the most in Legipn. I would love 10 man back as the hardest difficulty too!
I only play the game to be competitive and I love it.
That's fair enough! Whatever is fun to you! Competition breeds excellence.
Great vid, i caught it over on Pyro's channel. You just got a new sub. I agree with you, some folks just keep playing, others get busy with other things, grow past it, or life changes and they move on. Nothing wrong with that. Hanging out in forums blasting how bad the game is, how evil, horrible, not-worth-a-damn Blizzard and WoW are, and you're a horrible person for liking it when they hate it is a problem. Seems some folks don't like it and want everyone else to not like it too. I've learned, finally, to ignore the trolls (took me awhile, a am a slow learner like that).
I play because it's fun. Because once my adult children bought me the game in 08, I fell head over heels in love with it. I have played at least weekly, if not daily, since. Now I'm playing longer and daily because I'm older (67) and disabled so WoW is my fun thing to do. I do miss a good guild, I just found a new one and have had fun raiding but I tend to forget it's raid night because I haven't in a very long time so it's not top of the schedule in my head yet. But I play by myself, doing old content dungeons and raids solo for gear and to explore places I' have not been in awhile, or working for new gear and achieves. I set goals for myself, right now it's Remix and I've made 9 new characters with the objective of getting all the transmogs and mounts, any achievements that don't include making my way into dungeons where it's "run, run, run" (burned on that the first time I went in when me and two others got locked out of the second boss and the rest of the dungeon). I may try again, I may not, it's not that important to put myself through that stress. But I'm having fun learning new classes, new specs, and seeing how much I can push. I have fun flying around looking for orbs, it's almost to the point of "gotta get them all, see it, do it."
I know everyone plays differently. No one is going to want to slow their roll down for Granny Rubyrose to catch up or remember to move left when the time calls for it. I don't want to make their game any less fun. And that's totally okay. I can do me, they can do them, and we can both love the game from different directions. I've thought about making a guild for those of us who want to take our time, do our thing, and get together to do the dungeons and raids slowly with time to look at everything and experience rather than cut to the chase, kill the bosses, and see how fast we go. I just don't know if I feel up to leadership again (led a 1000 organization for about 10 years--burn out is real). But we'll see.
As I said, great vid and I look forward to more. Thanks!
I think that's really great that you play the game with your children! I think your analysis and mindset is spot on. I think you should make that guild too, you would absolutely meet some like-minded individuals. That could be something to look into with Delves coming up in the future! Thank you for your support and your kind words, and thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and experiences!
They can still bounce back with Classic. While SOD seems to be going downhill? Private servers like Turtle WOW have proven that it can be done. Blizzard is missing out. Remix has been fun, But for some reason, Blizzard has no interest in it at all with a Vanilla Plus.
I think in time Classic+ could come. Turtle WoW seems to be making serious moves with it in that respect. I think maybe SoD is just getting an idea what the players like/dislike. I think we could see further seasons maybe as they continue to experiment. It’s hard to say. I'm going to try Remix soon! I'm looking forward to it.
I feel like the general mindset part extends beyond the MMO genre too. There is simply too much information out there and it is too normalized to look up every bit of information before enjoying the content, taking away the exploration part of new systems or environments. Nowadays when people want to play a class, the first thing many do is look up builds for said class. It makes sense because those builds are better, but back when we didn't have that information we had many people running around with many different (albeit mostly terrible) builds of said class, making everything less uniform. New content is known before it is released, opinions are formed about said content based on watching a stream or video about the content without even trying it.
I can see this happening even with the upcoming Elden Ring DLC, where many people are going to instantly look up a build to clear the content with and not even consider other stuff. Taking away from the exploration and excitement of finding a new weapon because its not part of the build you picked.
Very true! You can absolutely apply it to any game. I don't think it's something players should be marked down or penalised for either. We're all different. I just think the prevalence of it all is so grand, and a lot of people are so easy to say the magic and mystique is dead, but don't have the awareness to see that it's their mindset that may be contributing to this a little. This was a really good comment. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and thank you for watching!
simply, younger, innocent, clueless
1- for younger ppl, every experience have more emotions and surprise envoling on this, because its the first time
(You can't step into the same river twice)
2- Clueless ppl can enjoy things without needing to think things outside the game
(your mind is focusing in enjoying, not worrying)
3- social aspect back in the day is important cause we dont have social media like those days
( game works as a GTA rp but with magic and orc in the past, also, works like a facebook but instead of a feed, its a world)
This comment is perfect. Really well said!
@@edd_TV we change, not the game
@@flix1179 I think a bit of both, but we have definitely changed more!
@@edd_TV yeah but its the same game in essence, what change is the goal we put in there, if today wow launch in the past, will be the same feeling as today, "the old good days", the days today is the good days tomorrow
@@flix1179 I agree. The game (and the day) is certainly what you make of it, and I think players can often be their own worst enemies without even realising it. I appreciate your engagement with the video and your stance on all of this. Knowledge is power!
I'm not having fun cause everyone is buying gold and bots are taking care about everything, there's just no point going and do stuff out there
I agree. The WoW token really spoiled a lot for me. I can understand its design to counter bots, but I just think being able to buy gold really ruins the integrity of the game. The economy got so crazy during WoD and was simply never addressed leaving the WoW token to be the ultimate 'solution', and it's a shame. I haven't had bad experiences with botting personally, but I know how profound it is and I can remember how crazy things were in BFA. It's just not something that is cracked down upon enough sadly.
I think why I'm not having fun like I once was is simple, you need an add-on for EVERYTHING, in retail! Its over complex for one reason, speed. Like you said, we are forced to consume the content as fast as possible, which just leaves endgame. So how do you create longevity in this game? Making endgame take longer with grinds! Mythics, Mythic+, professions now needing a youtube video thats almost thirty minutes long to tell you how to level your profession optimally!
I do agree with you that the amount of addons you need in WoW is insane at this point. I think they have done well in improving the game and adding more quality of life but you still have to rely on so much; weak auras, deadly boss mods etc. You have hit the nail on the head in terms of longevity and replayability. I didn't play a great deal of Dragonflight but I wasn't impressed with the new profession system at all. Maybe most love it and I'm the minority, but I just found it confusing.
@edd_TV you're not the minority, the copium from people who are still trying to convince themselves that retail is fun is crazy. I've had someone tell me it wasn't overly complex by telling me that it was actually overly complex.
@@notalive_zombie It's difficult for both new and returning players I think. Just a nightmare at this point.
@@edd_TV it's got too much endgame bloat
the players optimised a lot of fun things out of the game, but blizzard doubled down on that mentalilty and cater to it. As you said, mythic raids being heavily overtuned for the race to world first its just pointless to 99.9% of the player base.
WoW should never be an esport, if the game is good then people will watch it regardless but forcing it to fit an esports mould just turns into an evironment where something like Archon can even be considered worth making.
100% agree!
I don't understand that mentality. There's 3 other tiers of raiding. I don't feel like my platinum game in league is worthless because I'm not in challenger. If you don't want to do the hardest content don't do it but what harm does it existing for others do?
@@2o3ief I think people WANT to do the hardest, but the barrier to entry is challenging and unless you're in a well run guild with good admin, it can be quite difficult with 20 people. I think some people are just a bit tired of heroic because it's easy for them, but that bridge to mythic is just a bridge too far. That's just my take on it anyway. I absolutely believe there is prestige there.
@@edd_TV interesting, I just do PvP so cant speak to how stark a gap there is there but that makes sense to me.
I always figured it was because people still wanted the best gear in it of itself even if they're not interested in hard content because unlike league this is an RPG.
@@2o3ief I think PvP is different because it has to be competition right? I think I would argue that PvP should be the ONLY competitive element in WoW, but again that's just me. I understanding parsing and dps meters, and it's always fun to have a race with your friends etc, but it does feel like it's getting a bit too egotistical. As far as PvP is concerned, I think it's absolutely fine to go as hard as possible and be as competitive as you can, the goal is to win!
My personal problem with WoW is how 99% of the content is irrelevant to the current 'patch'. I for one couldn't care less about 'balanced' classes in a pve focused game, yet for some reason 90% of the focus for the next expansion is changing the classes yet again. As someone who hasn't played WoW until Legion, I was looking forward to explroring old zones. I originally thought it would be akin to GW2, where everything you do contributes to your overall progression. You can imagine my disappointmment when I realized there's 0 reason to visit any of the old zones unless you're going after achievements.
I would love to see a version of modern WoW where old content is somehow relevant in terms of progression. It would be an insanely difficult feat, but not impossible. Fated raids, Timewalking dungeons and the recent M+ addition of older dungeons are a great start, even though the devs are still so hesitant to change their 'seasonal content treadmill' philisophy. I would love to actually 'explore' WoW, but as it stands, the game doesn't provide any relevant reason to do so.
But then again I might be in the minority...as players reportedly hate the concept of revisiting older content and are only keen on speedrunning the latest patch.
I recommend you check out out my 'Island of Irrelevancy' video if you haven't seen it! I'm totally with you on this. It's such a damn shame that so much of the world gets left behind or becomes irrelevant because the game 'needs to focus on upcoming stuff.' It's something FFXIV has done so well, and I'm hopeful Blizzard can learn of it going forward with the likes of Delves and such. I can't imagine how it must feel for you if you started in Legion, and I really do empathise with you. I really love your thoughts and ideas. There is SO much more they could do with both Chromie Time and Timewalking; Timewalking really could do with a fresh coat of paint I think because there are some great possibilities there!
I sadly do think we are the minority in this sense, but I'm totally with you and I know many more are too! Thank you for taking the time to watch this and sharing your thoughts and feelings. I resonated with your thoughts a lot.
@@edd_TV Thank you for your content! Just checked out the video you recommended because it sounded familiar and as it turns out, I have actually seen it when you first uploaded it. Spot on assessment!
@@AlexandarJankovic Thank you! I really appreciate your engagement and it's so nice to hear players share similar views and opinions. Like you say, we may be the minority but we do exist!
WoW is consuming a lot of time for too little reward. I work from 8:00 a.m to 4:00 p.m and i come to home at 6 p.m . I have 6-7 hours to spend in home and i can't waste it to farm one item in m+. Finding group takes around 25-30 mins as dps and 25 more minutes to complete the dungeon. I have to waste my 1 hour to get a item(prob i won't get the item i want and dungeon reward will be just 50 gold).It was okay for me when i was university student but now hell no. I can't spare my all night for 3-4 dungeons. This is why i quit playing wow.Now i am enjoying more casual games like helldivers 2.
I do think life has gotten in the way for a lot of players, but also like you say, it just may not be worth it to some players now anymore. I think you have made the right decision for yourself, and there are plenty of other games out there that you can enjoy if WoW doesn't tick that box anymore. I've heard good things about Helldivers 2! Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences!
For me, it was definately friends dropping off that killed my interest. At the height of my time on wow, i would always see like 10-15 people ready to do stuff. By shadowlands, i couldnt even scrape people together to do dingeons. Wow was a social game for me, and as soon as it was no longer social, that was it.
I relate a lot. Some people have just moved on or fallen out of love with it. I enjoyed Dragonflight, but it was a real struggle for me playing it alone. The majority of the people I played with checked out around BFA and Shadowlands was the last thing that could have brought anybody back from the brink.
I'd say it's maybe 30% the game, and 75% the players. Like you said, we're all older now, and free time is much more valuable. Way I figure it, the minimum amount of time you want to have for one character in the game is about 10 hours a week. This is assuming you're playing the "right" way and not buying gold. 10 hours a week for one game to a guy with a job, wife, kids, etc., is a lot of time. Especially since a good chunk of that time, the raiding time, is ideally uninterrupted. In addition to the time requirement, the grind just gets old after a while. After playing WoW for about 12 of the last 17 years, I'm just tired of it. Single player games I can play at my own pace are the future for me.
Very valid and fair assessment. I agree with you. I need to rekindle my love with single player games as similarly to you, I think I've been in the grind and rat-race for too long. I still love WoW and I'm very excited for the Worldsoul Saga, but there is so many games I still need to catch up on, like Final Fantasy 7 Remake for instance! Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings.
Great video man
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you!
What WoW lacks for me is quite simple:
- Evergreen content, which is why borrowed power is the worst idea ever; all effort put into it will be entirely moot once it becomes obsolete. The silver lining for Legion artifacts is their tmog value
- An enthusiastic community. I struggle to see ANYTHING even remotely resembling a community in the game these days
- Clear combat language. If boss fights are designed around add-ons, and players demand add-ons just to participate, then what's the point? I struggle to get back into content because I've _forgotten_ more than most modern day players will ever know about the game
- Exciting and meaningful progression. The last time I remember an item's name was... Wrath of the Lich King? Furthermore, modern day 'progression' is more about regaining lost power than it is actually gaining it. The strongest a player will ever be is level 1...
I want to give War Within a shot, but I've yet to see a video actually selling it.
I really liked borrowed power initially, but I think that is mainly because WoD was just so empty. It was a real breath of fresh air for me and I loved dedicating the time to upgrade all of my traits and so on. It reminded me of old skool talents back in Vanilla. Everything we got felt so important and I really felt my character getting stronger. But once it was taken away, it felt so horrible. You make a good point about some of it remaining in transmog form though, that was a saving grace. However, this line of gameplay for several years afterwards felt so horrendous. If it was a one and done with Legion, I think Legion would be held in an even higher regard. Sadly people (rightly so) point the finger at Legion for it paving the cruel road WoW inevitably ended up walking, and it's true.
I think enthusiastic communities DO exist but I think they are exceptionally rare. I moved over an RP server after playing so much FFXIV so I'm hopeful when I get back into WoW I will feel SOME semblance of what I feel in XIV.
You make some really good points and honestly, I'm in the same boat as you. I haven't purchased TWW yet because I don't feel I need to. I don't think I'm 'over' WoW by any means but I'm just doing other things. I'm currently raiding Savage in XIV, I'm making videos here etc, I'm just content with what I'm doing and very much like you, I haven't seen anything that has made me think 'WOW, I need to play this!'. I thought maybe Delves would be that, but it hasn't blown me away or anything. I'm definitely going to buy it at some point and I think I'll make a video on my levelling experience and what I think of the narrative.
I love and agree with all of your points. Thank you for watching and sharing them!
Excluding Classic launch. Torghast is the most fun i had in wow in recent times it's just a shame it got such a sour reputation. It's the Best idea Blizzard ever had with the worst execution.
So very true.The potential was crazy good. I hope they try again with it in time!
@@edd_TV I was hoping that would have been the outcome of torghast with new environments and New enemies on top of that some kind of completely random endless mode.
@@oskardanigsecher9906 I LOVED the idea of Torghast, and when I was watching people covering it during the beta and whatnot it looked really great. I think they have no doubt learned some harsh lessons and hopefully if they attempt it again, they will realise that it doesn't need to be gated by power or incentivisation. It just needs to be a fun experience and if people are interested in rogue-likes, they'll play it! It's an ace in the hole. It's such a popular type of game and I think it's something they can tap into better with more thought and better execution.
The game became a job instead of fun, as the system of gear became grind= reward with time. Now the time factor has been pushed so far right that the grind became work. Wow was the escape from work. So once one became the other well... I get paid from one and pay the other for actually nothing but pixels.
This comment cuts deep. You speak a lot of truth. It's a bit of a blame game I think with the optimisation. The players started it and Blizzard drew on that. I think the job side of thing is tough. People obviously want to be the best they can be, but the price players had to pay to achieve this (From Legion to Shadowlands) was really gruelling.
I started this game when it came out (still have my 10 year anniversary orc statue) and all I can say is it's too difficult now. It was easy and tedious back then, making it a simple time commitment and not a feat of ability. Now it's too fast-paced, too overcomplicated and not fun. No matter what I do on my ret paladin, I cannot reach the same numbers others do, even with better gear. It's just not fun for me to do any group content, since I'm always at the bottom of the meters. Raided in AQ and Naxx, but now I barely touch LFR. Hopefully delves help with this, as it seems like that kind of content is geared to me. I hate tryhards, kind of always have, and they've made the game for those people now. Hopefully it dials back somewhat. I don't want to play remade classic, have almost 20 years put into my retail characters, and I want to play them.
Very cool that you have that orc statue! I do agree with you. The game suffers dramatically from bloat and a desire to get things done as fast as possible. It's an ethos and philosophy that has seeped deeply into the community. It feels like Overwatch levels of speed in an MMORPG, and I just don't think an MMO should ever be that fast or be that competitive. MMO's are supposed to be comfy. I'm really hopeful for delves too; they look like a combination of Mythic+ and Torghast, I'm pretty hopeful they will be a lot of fun. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences!
Your analysis has the right points, but u arrived from the wrong side at them:
Blizzard DIDNT DESIGN ANYTHING in regards to what we have now, they just OBEYED to what the loudest voices in the comunity wanted to have, .. PLAYERS wanted more QoL, less forced to social, faster leveling i.e. overoptimization of the game to "skip" the "unnecessary" art cuz onkly endgame is game, etc etc. all the shit i hate is stuff people cried about they want the game to be changed to be like it is now -- i was there since BC, even end of vanilla .. i heard all discussions, saw the forum posts, and when social media went up all the stuff there too -- in a time where the game didnt have all these things i hate, people complained they dont like it -- and blizzard just did one thing: they listened, and made the game accordingly . . . . that's why i was so happy (in theory) that they did NOT listen anymore in BfA/shadowlands and said "nope, we have our vision, THIS time we will not tear down how we want to make the game" --- just sad that they were over it exactly when they for the first time really had..uncooked..ideas . . .
I think a bit of both. I think the QoL has only been good for the game. If you look at people who play classic they use addons to make the game more like retail in that sense, because all the QoL exists in the modern game and they 'need' it. I definitely agree with you in regards to how detrimental things like the dungeon finder have been, as they have destroyed all social aspects and opportunities to meet new players. We have seen this in Classic how people wished to be able to use General Chat or Trade Chat to advertise for groups again, but then people just used addons to form groups anyway. I think a harsh truth is, most people have their groups/friends to play with so this kind of behaviour or philosophy of using methods to 'recruit' don't need to exist anymore, and some people do just lack patience and want to get going as quickly as they can.
I think we can blame both the community and as you say, Blizzard for bending the knee in that sense. And I do think they need to be able to do both; sticking to their guns and believing in their philosophy but sometimes also taking a step back and thinking 'Yeah, the players are right on this one'. I think it goes both ways. You are very right though! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings, and thank you for watching!
not so much for older expansions, but Dragonflight Absolutely has no regard for your time, there are wait times all over for mini events that happen every hour or so, the soup pot, the hunts, the primal storms, time rifts, emerald dream flares, the big dig and all those other ones in the cavern and Emerald Dream. unless you're constantly monitoring your map to know whats going on and where, you are absolutely screwed if you can only play for a short period of time because chances are you'll spend all your time waiting for an event to pop up or be too busy doing anything else to manage to catch one.
my major gripe is rather than Punish the elitist gatekeepers that really took root in WoD, they inadvertently rewarded them by having Item level show up in Group Finder, so they can more easily keep people out of raids for being "too low". there is nothing more disheartening than trying to get into a raid above LFR and seeing "timed out" or "declined" 20 times in a row.
Im currently working on A World Awoken because I apparently hate myself and its basically Busywork the achievement and Im working to knock each achive out at a time and maybe half or so was done by the time I was like "how do get big f*ck off dog mount?" followed by an "oh....JFC"
I am _DREADING_ doing the mythic one because I Know I'm in for a slog trying to get those mythic dungeons done. you'd think killing 200 of every storm empowered enemy of every type of storm in every zone would be the worst one since you have to wait 3 hours for random storms, but no its the one where I just have to run 8 mythic dungeons.
someone else said it best but the TLDR of How WoW's playerbase functions is that if you are seen as an obstacle, you will be treated as an obstacle.
You make a great point regarding the activities of Dragonflight. It is a bit frustrating how you can only really realistically choose to do one out several, and you have to make the decision what matters more to you. I installed TomCat Tours when I returned to Dragonflight and I had SO many timers and events just popping off. It was overwhelming as hell.
The gatekeeping is super exhausting and I don't really know how you stop something like that. I can relate to the declining of groups as a holy paladin at one stage, and I genuinely think that's why they gave holy paladins combat res, just to try and make them more viable. Good luck with that achievement! I find stuff like that very commendable and it does feel very satisfying when you complete it.
This is a really well written comment and your final word is so very true. I think the same can be said for optimisation, if players CAN do it, they WILL do it. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts and feelings!
I think all games can become a chore if you play to much to be honest. Got that way with CS mixing; but shouldn't take away from all the fun times we had and stuff like that. Every memory is unique; that clutch, that wan deag, that dodgy fountain plant. The community of friends you build around it. When something becomes routine it starts to lose its appeal and people drift off in search of something that's fun again.
For WoW in particular I think the increased focus on dailies probably made the game feel like that - Mists in particular for me - just felt that it was more about keeping me in the game than me achieving a goal and then the cynicism crept in. After that - especially around WoD the game felt like it was definitely being tailored for people who had a higher toleration of that kind of thing and probably far more dedicated to endgame content. Think it's probably a difficult position for Blizzard because raiders are consistent subscribers whereas casuals are not. Focusing on content more geared towards hardcore raiders also means that the game is less accessible to newer and returning players. One of the problems with the subscription model I think. Which is another topic entirely.
Such great memories. It's interesting that you felt this change in MoP. I do recall that was when the increase of dailies came in, but I can't remember feeling like I was going above and beyond with it in Mists, besides The Tillers farm, I was mad for that! I felt like Legion was really asking for a lot, but because WoD was so lifeless I absolutely loved it. You are right though, it's clear to see the design to keep players active. You make a good point too with who Blizzard choose to cater to/prioritise. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings!
Great Video!
Thank you! Thanks for watching.
I have fun on private server. Retail is expensive and bloated af
It's not something I would partake in personally, but I have read about the likes of Turtle WoW and such.
i get what you're saying, and to some degree yes we are all older and its harder to find that sense of exploration and mystique. but i still believe blizzard has just been pushing out terrible products. ow2, wc3 reforged, d4, shadowlands, forgettable dragonflight. som. they just suck at their jobs honestly, and we keep giving wow a chance because every mmorpg has been a fail in the past 10 years.
Oh no doubt about it. I think the products have been below par too in recent years. I can't speak for Overwatch personally, but Warcraft III reforged was a slap in the face. I was really disappointed with it. I trudged through BFA, but Shadowlands is ultimately what pushed me away from WoW for the longest time. I have no issues with Dragonflight personally aside from the story being a bit forgettable like you say, and just not very engaging. I think we keep giving WoW a chance because it's so important to us. We love it and we can be critical of it, not because we hate it, but because of how MUCH we love it and we want it to be great again. It's just important to understand that for some people they feel like they are in those glory days now, whereas some players feel they are truly over with. I would like to be hopeful with the Worldsoul Saga, but we'll honestly have to wait and see. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings!
I have fun
So do I. This video is in relation to those who don't have fun anymore and attempting to explore why that may be. I do state that many people still enjoy WoW more than ever right now. I recommend watching the video first, lol. Glad to hear you're enjoying it!
I have to say something, about my experience with World of Warcraft. I was 100% against playing WoW, it looked different and unknown. It took Wrath of the Lich King to even have an ounce of a care for the game. Since I liked Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne.
After Legion, I stopped playing altogether, but on Feb 8, 2018, I joined FFXIV. And I haven't looked back to play World of Warcraft anymore because of the mandatory requirement of having all the Addons. Addons really killed the game, no offense.
I don't think you're alone with those feelings about addons. A lot of people are campaigning for addons to be removed from the game. I sadly don't think it will ever happen though. Blizzard even design encounters around addons in mind these days.
@@edd_TV Actually, Blizzard can't handle the Arms Race with Addons and they've mentioned they *could* ban Addons permanently. They stopped making content around addons. And it happened like Dragonflight / The War Within. When they mentioned they could do Ban Addons permanently. By changing one thing, I think it's the API or something to that effect.
I remember this because of Preach's Interview with Ion Hazzitosiz (sp?).
@@ArmageddonEvil That's very interesting! I'll have to check that out. I do think we have become so reliant on the likes of DBM and weakauras, it really spoils so many encounters. Thanks for sharing!
@@edd_TV No problem, I have a lot of insight from watching videos. Playing my favorite MMORPG, FFXIV. It'll take a while for WoW to regain what it had in the past. That growth to 12 million Subscribers was insane. It'll take a long time before they can get back to that number. Since they have probably much less subscribers than they are showing to everyone.
Battle for Azeroth was one of the worst expansions because they had the mentality of the players are the enemy. Shadowlands after that was pretty bad too. It's quite ironic that the Development Team tries to counter players by destroying fun. A Speed Build getting gutted because it was FUN. The Fun Police is Blizzard Development Team for WoW.
@@ArmageddonEvil I don't think it's possible for WoW to ever get back to those heights. It was just a phenomenon at the time. I think the best card they could have played and DID play was Classic. I think Classic is a money-maker forever. They can release Classic fresh and people will constantly return and play it again. It's a deep rooted obsession at this point.
I think the Worldsoul Saga CAN get players back and subscriber numbers up, but no way will they ever get close to those Wrath numbers again!
People who say that modern WoW is too easy or easier than it used to be straight up don't know what they're talking about and have never played any actual end game progression content.
I agree. Mythic is harder than anything we have ever seen before. I wonder if perhaps they mean the way questing and the open world is now; you can do most stuff alone etc. You don't have the 'elite' quests anymore and so on.
This is why I choose to be terrible, I didn't read Wowhead in 2004 and I don't read it in 2024. If I have to do homework for a video game, I'm out.
I don't think that makes you terrible! Don't sell yourself short. I think it means you have a desire to explore and learn for yourself. I think back to the days of when I was a kid and one of my friends had a walkthrough magazine for The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, and even as a child,I was so disappointed in him that he wanted to just follow a guide and not figure things out for himself and learn. It's one of the most satisfying things about a game I think.
@@edd_TV especially OOT. What an amazing game.
@@Boredonthejob So true. It was iconic for so many of us and a real foray into the gaming world. Majora's Mask is my personal favourite, but the Zelda games are fantastic. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts and feelings!
Pog
I'm having fun though
So am I. This video isn't targeted for every player. Many people enjoy it, as I state in the video! This video is designed to be thought-provoking and attempt to explain why some people may not enjoy it anymore. Glad to hear you're enjoying it!
Disagree if you change the developers you will change the game. It would be like seeing a tribute band to Led Zeppelin and then telling everyone you've seen the real Led Zeppelin. All of the of the game devs left around 2014 to 2015
That is very true, and that shows with both character development and the storytelling. It's definitely a factor for some players. It feels at times the developers don't understand the characters and there is a rapid change in tone. I still think it's important to acknowledge that growing up was a big part of the enjoyment experience though.
I am 38 like most of wow core base, with a kid and a job. I have nothing but time...its 8 in the morning , i can get up, play wow for 4 hours, make some food for an hour and tidy up the place and then play wow untill night. Most days i choose to play games or watch twitch/yt for half of that time which is still 6-8 hours a day.
8:27 I defiled mine
hated every moment of tbc classic.
I'm sorry to hear that. I was very tempted to play it but I knew it was going to be a struggle.
Eh, can't relate. I play the game like 3 months each year and have a lot of fun. Its delusional to pay 12 months and hope every month is gonna give you satisfcation.
I agree. I think it depends on what interests you too and what you deem satisfying. We all get that dopamine hit in different ways. There is definitely plenty of fun to be had, but for 12 months consecutively? That might be a tall order for some, and there are so many other games out there too. Breaks are important.
The game changed. Classic is still fun
It’s all still fun I think, it’s just all about your preferences and your goals. We all enjoy different things and I think it's really great that there are multiple versions of WoW now so people can just play their favourite.
The problem with wow is its been going on for so long that nothings new. In vanilla it was old god wotlk old gods mop cata bfa sl df and now the new expansion old gods zzzz.
I do think they need to get the Old Gods right after how poor BFA was, but I agree to some extent. It’s very stale/samey, but I think the worldsoul saga intends to wrap up almost everything a best it can, and then we'll see that new era of WoW ushered in, hopefully!
surely M+ will be removed after AWW, right guys ? ...riight?
I think it's in for life at this point, which I suppose I don't mind but at the same time I think it needs reinventing or needs to evolve. It's too focused around gear, and I'm not sure if that's just a me problem. I would like to want to do mythic+ but for other things: transmog, achievements, mounts etc. It would be nice if they could provide challenges on certain weeks for instance. It's such a core part of the replayability now, it's hard to imagine it gone.
@@edd_TV Oh for sure, I'm on copium here, I'm a minority that doesn't actually like how we are forced to farm mythic+ just so we can raid. funnily enough I was a big fan of challenge mode however, probably cuz of the reasons you listed, mount/mog/title and once you had done it, you were done.
@@Hedidit they've been forcing people to raid to get closure on story for 20 years. Turnabout is fair play
@@Hedidit It's strange because you don't even need to raid anymore with something like the creation catalyst now. You can just acquire gear from Mythic+ and convert that into tier pieces with the catalyst, which I feel really conflicted about. I think it's good for casuals to still be able to acquire 2/4set because it's so powerful for Mythic+ and such, but it seems quite damaging to raiding. Outside of the story, raiding to me was always about acquiring the tier set (and of course the community aspect of it all). Now it feels like the only real reason to do the raids is to get the really powerful trinkets you otherwise wouldn't be able to get. Maybe that's just the cynic in me. I agree with you on the challenge modes. They were a nice reward to shoot for but like most things, there was no desire/need to return to them after you had achieved what you wanted.
95% of the game feels dead. There's no reason to do older content beyond getting a mount or some transmog... You buy the game? You get a free max lvl token. Quite the contrast compared to FF14 where old zones still have players gathering there even for endgame recipes, roulettes rewarding veterans for doing old dungeons, and so on.
It's sad but true. I think a roulette system in WoW would be brilliant. I do love how FFXIV keeps the old zones relevant too. I think this is somewhat WoW is trying to do for story purposes but it's very brief by comparison. You are very right. I think both games have a different ethos/philosophy. FFXIV is a story driven journey and WoW just wants you at max level immediately to focus on the 'new' stuff because as you said, the old stuff is dead now and was never built to last. It's a real shame.
But...I am having fun?
Then this video won't apply to you in that sense! It's not a 'one size fits all' video. It's designed to explore reasons as to why some people don't enjoy it anymore. I recommend reading the description and watching it first, as I state that there are many many people still having fun, including me! Glad to hear that you're enjoying it.
That thumb nail is cheating 😂😂😂
Haha, I think it's the perfect illustration of how some players feel about the game. Not all though! Some players love it now more than ever.
lol are ya winning son?
Used to be fun now even the flying quest are so hard why bother.
I think having challenges is great, but my mind always jumps to how it's going to come across for new players or players who don't have much experience with WoW. It's difficult too because as the expansions go on, Blizzard have to find new places for them to start; beginning on Exile's Reach and then going into BFA etc. Now it's Exile's Reach into Dragonflight, and I think that might be quite advanced for new players who want to check it out.
From Conan to Crynan.
Haha! He oddly reminds me of Thor with his new look! Whilst a lot of people really do hate the whole 'cry baby Anduin', I'm really excited to see how he develops in The War Within. I hope it won't be too samey and if anything can be a bit more darker and serious.
The game used to be made for the players.
Then a bunch of people got hired because they checked boxes and expressed very important opinions.
Then Blizzard got outed for being degens, which opened the door for the activists who had been hired to take control.
Now the game is being designed to please the activists who make and adversary so AGAINST the players.
Just look at how many gratuitous and hamfisted gay side quests were added in Dragonflight. Romance was usually not highly focused upon prior to this, but in Shadowlands and Dragonflight a giant spotlight has been shown on it and almost all of it is gay. Because the game is designed to please the activist creators and frustrate the chud player base
Very brutal assessment but there is some truth there. It's a real shame that none of the original team members are around anymore, because I feel that character development has suffered dramatically. Some obviously had to go though, Afrasiabi etc. I feel that the current team just simply don't understand the characters at times, and a lot of people question if they even play the game, because some decisions can be so random and feel very left-field. I'm absolutely fine with the romance/emotive stuff personally. I feel if we can see that in TV shows and other video games, it definitely can have a place in WoW too. But you are right in the sense that we didn't see this kind of stuff 5-10 years ago. It was more of a heavy metal vibe. I recommend checking out my 'Mourned Identity' video if you haven't seen it. I think you will relate a lot to that. It's really tricky when the conversation becomes about agenda and tick boxes, but it's something that players feel is quite prevalent in recent years. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts and feelings.
I'm just here to be a rogue and stab people. As long as i can buy my pvp gear with points I get in pvp, i am happy.
Sometimes it's the little things! Glad to hear it.
This seems like cope. I still enjoy Classic Era and Classic on private servers such as Turtle wow. The game and audience changed with it, it's no longer an RPG.
Season of Discovery also proves the retail mentality in the game. I think it needs a total reset ala World of Warcraft 2, a game where addons are bannable and keeping the woke stuff/awful lore away from the game (The last point is virtually impossible with Nu-Blizzard).
I'm not sure if cope is the right word. A lot of people still enjoy various versions of WoW. The video is designed to just explore why certain players don't enjoy it anymore. It doesn't reflect my views on the game. I still enjoy retail (although I did have issues with Dragonflight's story) and I've played Classic/SoD too and had fun with those. The game has absolutely changed and I agree that the RPG elements have been swept aside.
I agree with your thoughts on SoD and a WoW 2 seems inevitable. I think it will hinge on how well the Worldsoul Saga performs. I definitely stand with you in the camp of banning addons at this point. The 'woke' stuff is a difficult conversation because of the world we live in today. I talk about this in another video of mine 'The Mourned Identity' if you're interested in checking that out. WoW used to be this sort of 'heavy metal' MMO and it feels like its lost that. I have no issues with emotion in WoW or being made to feel something, but I do understand where you're coming from and I know you're not alone with these thoughts.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings!
@@edd_TV Thanks for the kind response! :)
In terms of what I mean by woke I do not mean that I can't feel emotion or that quests should be emotionless. What I mean is that World of Warcraft (like many other games) used to be an escape from the real world, now you are reminded by it. And modern sensibilities change all the time.
One particular thing is that classic at times is more woke than modern retail. While a trans character in Shadowlands shows that the creators "think correctly" but it does not say anything truly political. It is lip-service. In Classic the Defias storyline is quite captivating. A union striking that threatens the status quoe in the city.
I think that World of Warcraft, retail atleast. Is no longer made for me. A shame really since I played up until WoD basically.
@@andrewjackson7511 You're welcome. I appreciate your engagement! You make some very good points with both realism and storylines such as the Defias. I think the Defias storyline is really memorable and slept on!
It's very difficult to know who WoW is for these days. A lot of people suggest they are just checking boxes for their agendas and it's more of a machine these days than something authentic. I think The War Within will hopefully provide a lot of answers on this but lip-service is a very strong and valid phrase! I think WoD is a good example to look back on, when you compare what the basis of WoD was and where we're at today, and just how much the tone and narrative has changed. It speaks volumes.
It's not necessarily that WoW or gaming in general were better back then (they were), the issue is a product of the fact that gaming has become so mainstream and sweaty for lack of a better term. Looking up every detail about a game and having spreadsheets typed up before the game was even out used to be something only basement dwelling neckbeards did; everyone else just jumped into a new game and learned as they played.
Yeah, I agree. It's just the common rule of 'If players can do it, they will do it'. And there's nothing wrong with that, but it does feel quite tiresome.
Bald man?
Maybe. We'll see.
Wow, what a video!
You made so many wonderful points!
Some that I am in 100% agreement, and some that I would accept with a condition or a caveat.
I will have to rewatch it to make a coherent response.
Thank you for the recommendation to watch this!
Thank you for watching! I would be very interested to hear your deeper thoughts, as I know what I say isn't gospel and we all interpret and play the game differently! There isn't a 'one size fits all' and I think it's important that we all acknowledge that. Thanks again for watching and your support!
Deck:
1. Social aspect (old school vs retail).
2. Game changing
3. us changing
4. meta knowledge (wowhead, datamining)
5. running a dungeon for loot vs exploration
6. forced engagement with content
7. streamlining of content
8. classic being time portal
9. ilvl score and death of fun
10. excessive grind
11. optimized gaming
Points I would like to add
I. content bloat
II. visually busy
III. community / friends
post scriptum: personal story about time, friendship and work.
1. Social aspect (old school vs retail).
Social aspect has been without a doubt optimized out of the game.
Unless you are raiding mythic 25 or some form of tight PvP premade, you have no to very little need for social interactions.
Almost all quests can be done solo, and quests overall have lesser impact on your leveling experience.
I'd argue that the game reflects the post-social media world, where gratification is instant and you are the sole hero of your own story.
Wow forgot it's roots as a DnD in Azeroth or a hero fantasy from Warcraft 3.
There are many reasons for this, but most apparent to name are:
level boosts, LFR, no fun allowed class/gear/gameplay optimization, irrelevance of crafting and the endless grind that can be done solo.
2. Game changing
100% nailed, nothing to add.
3. us changing.
yes, but!
While it is true that us (the wow "boomers") that remember the launch in 2004 have moved on, there are a lot of people in WoW that aren't that old or have the kind of responsibilities you describe.
Yet those people have similar gripes about the game irregardless of the rose tinted glasses that some newer players might accuse us to be wearing when talking about Vanilla or TBC.
I worked since I was 16, meaning 7 hours of school and 4-8 hours of work, I didn't have the 12 hours to spare to farm something crazy in Vanilla, but while we changed, the pace of change in the game is even more visible.
What I would point out is, that while in Vanilla, TBC or Wotlk you had to grind to get the best gear, the time required was nowhere near the time requirement that you have in the game nowadays to get full BIS. This endless threadmill of content is what some people are so put off by, and espouse the virtues of old WoW in lieu of Retail.
If you are interested I can offer examples for comparison.
What I agree with is that the game was more fun back then because of friends that played, but I will expand on the topic in a later point.
Story has become too agenda driven by modern "ideologies"
It's a very tricky subject, but there is definitely a careful discussion to be had about it. I know the story of Dragonflight and the way WoW is perceived generally in recent times has upset a lot of players. I talk about it a lot in my 'Mourned Identity' video if you're interested in checking that out; how Warcraft has gone from being the 'heavy metal' of MMO's to what it is now.
@@edd_TV Its amazing we have to tip toe around it carefully lest we be silenced and censored into oblivion.
@@DryzualThese are the times we're living in, yeah. I often draw from Disney and Star Wars when it comes to agendas; as a die hard Star Wars fan I was furious with what they did with the sequels. I had no problem with Rey as a female lead, but it was the character development (or lack of it) that really did it in for me. I think it's all about execution.
There is nothing wrong with gay questlines/characters in WoW or whatever but a lot of people think it's excessive. I think for me the question is: why are we seeing all of this now? Whether that be gay characters or romance in the cutscenes etc. There's nothing wrong with any of it, but it's suddenly appeared in abundance which leads believe to believe they are just box ticking at this point, and that steers them away from the game.
@@edd_TV The future ua-cam.com/video/KwwN5kwjAtQ/v-deo.html
@@Dryzual I forgot about this
I'm going to be real. I'm a story person. I think the game isn't fun to people because the combat is dated and sucks now, and I think most wow killers died. Because they copy Wows dated combat.
Just to give example. Look at destiny, for a third person game. Their are tons of good 3d person rpgs.
In dragon flight. People where flipping out over holding a button for a spell. Bitch! That's in Minecraft! Your telling Wow just got that!
Also I think new content is added in a bad way. Like playing as a goblin shouldn't be made to be linked to Classic.
Also you have the dated story telling, and Reforged being bad fucked them.
Btw Asmon says that raids are to punishing and they need more players. I assume you agree with that.
Btw I think you should have Single play, Normal, and Hard.
I still think WoW's combat is probably better than any other MMORPG, it's a real selling point I think. Blizzard have always been known for 'copying' other MMO's too and essentially making better products. Everybody talks about how they 'stole' Dragonriding from Guild Wars 2 etc. I do agree with pretty much everything you say here, and yeah I think Mythic is too much in regards to how hard it is and needing static 20 players. I would never raid Mythic again personally, not unless they introduced a 10 man version of it.
@@edd_TV i tried the free tial during bfa.
I started as a dwarf ranger and then a undead warlock.
I started with a dwarf and was just standing bored. Then I switched to undead. Still bored. A goblin on a motorcycle passed me by, and it gave me an existential crisis, and I closed the game.
The thing is wow isn’t competing with mmos anymore. They’re competing to Fortnight.
@@Hot_SpicyGrill The tone definitely has shifted quite a lot in recent times. I'm not sure who WoW are competing with or if that's something they even think about anymore. Most people would just compare them to Disney at this stage I think.
@@edd_TV Oh I forgot to connect those ideas. Sorry.
Multiplayer games and there technolgy have gotten so much better. That the line between a MMO and Multiplayer game is extremally thin and no longer maters to most players.
Now Plunder storm looked pretty dope. So we could see combat over haul.
I mean why play Wow when you could play on a Minecraft sever.
"The elitism that spawned from retail" buddy are you high? Have you ever PLAYED on a private server? And by the by, classic really doesn't appeal to retail players, there's not alot of player bleed between them.
I don't play private servers, no, but they are to blame too of course. I would probably say I've misspoken there by blaming retail outright. It's no secret that retail has become a nicer place since Classic started, but it would be ignorant to suggest retail has/had zero toxicity or elitism. It's something that exists in every corner of WoW. It almost feels like a 'chicken and the egg' situation at this point and it was wrong of me to solely blame retail. I of course acknowledge that it exists everywhere. The gatekeeping is so profound in every version of WoW now, and that's so sad. Your latter comment is something I've seen a lot with my friends. Since Classic has come out, they will likely never return to retail again now. And that makes me sad, but I understand it. I think it's good that there are so many different versions of the game and people can just play their favourites.
Blizzard didn't optimize the fun out of the game players did.
Nostalgia and being children definitely affected why people used to have fun and now don't. But you also have to consider the competition. The new generation of gamers isn't getting raised on these slow grindy games like MMOs they're playing mainly survival games orr extraction shooters games or battle royale games. The type of slow exploration gameplay style has fallen heavily out favor.
You mentioned veterans knowing what we can expect for The War Within. Of course we do. The games been out 20 years. They've changed classes multiple times, they just revamped professions, they even revamped the leveling and flight systems recently. All that said, the actual core gameplay can't be expected to be changed. People play wow for wow, whether that's raiding with their friends or doing world quests in a cutesy cartoon game and collecting mountains of cosmetics. If blizzard just decided to upend their formula for success they'd fail. And that's what all modern games are, formulaic. You might not understand the formula or algorithm but they all have one if you want to optimize the fun out.
This commentary piece could have been about 4 mins shorter without losing relevant points, you said kids played for 10-12 hours a day like that was a regular occurrence after school, all of your points circle around the three points commonly beat to death ( nostalgia for classic, gamers too focused on going fast for endgame, game is predictable based on expacs adding zones dungeons raids). I'd give your piece here a 3/10.
I wasn’t expecting a grade lol, but thanks for watching all the same. I’m not expecting nor asking for the core gameplay to change. I have no problems with the way World of Warcraft is. The video is designed to explain why some people may have fallen out of love with it and attempts to explore why that may be. It doesn't apply to everybody and by no means is the silver bullet or means I'm right. This video doesn’t necessarily reflect my views either, which is pretty obvious I would say.
the most common complaint is that wow doesnt respect the time commited to it and actively tries to make you leave the game.
That is very true with their philosophy of borrowed power and the era of Legion-Shadowlands. It was designed to keep players engaged and subscribed, and it ultimately drove a lot of players away. It's never fun when the game feels like a job.
I know all the reasons why i quit. Lfr, lfg, the casualisation of content, accesibility qol and streamlining aka " its too hard mommy make it easy for me mommy" alt friendlyness, heirlooms, catch up gear, shared reputations, crossfaction play, cash shop, token, bots and addons solving the game for you. Need i go on?
Thorgast was not the problem. The problem are casuals wanting to complete stuff just by looking at it.
Some players? Most players left the game because most players feel betrayed and hate the modern game.
What has changed more? The game.
Some? MOST!
I think there is definitely still fun to be had, but it can be quite challenging for a lot of players for various reasons.
I lived for two months a year alone and during my univeristy ears outside of two months yearly testing period i didnt even attend half of the hours i had classes scheduled for. Half was enough to learn to pass the tests and in the last year i had even more time since masters thesis writers had half a year basically only to write and reasearch for their masters thesis... No classes... Only montyly checkups with the promotor. Anyway. After finishing uni i went to work on my own business which meant i assigned my own hours. The only reason why wow is disliked is how much it was twisted into a mobile like brainless lobby game with the illusion of mmorpg around it. You dont have to explore and level and those who did are suckers because now its skipped through in two days to a week.
Im sorry but if you make mmo and you want to appeal to the pencildicks who think mmorpgs start at endgame then you are not making an mmorpg no more. Its not an mmorpg because the rpg part is the slowly leveling part, exploring, adventuring and slowly growing in power.
@@86CorvusThank you for sharing! Some good points. It’s obviously not something that applies to everybody, but more reasons as to why certain players may have fallen out of love with the game. Not everybody is going to feel this way because we all enjoy different things. Some think WoW is great still and some don’t and that’s why they prefer classic. It’s just the nature of the beast.
we are getting old bros, thats the main problem we are getting old.
We really are. It's a big part of it, for sure! I'd never sit here and deny that WoW hasn't changed because it clearly has, but our growth, mindset and goals are also responsible for the way we view the game now too.
My lifestyle didnt change. You are wrong.
That dungeon pull is a great example of why the game sucks. developers trying to make things easier for the casuals because casuals dont learn or get better so the bar is being lowered. Casuals kept dying from small pulls so blizz made it easier to tank. So players who are good started to pull more packs at once because they can. This made casuals look bad again because they did not improve and so they can only handle one pack now and badly. So blizzard makes it easier to tank... So good players pull all the mobs at once and keep moving forward to pull more. Meanwhile the casual can now deal with that one pack easily because now mobs are so weak it doesnt even matter if the tank or healer are in the group at all! And so no matter what you do to keep the casual invited into groups he never will be seen as an asset and you only degenerate the game experience into speedrunning a boring dungeon pulling everything i sight because it poses no threat including the bosses! You ruined the game, people leave i droves, and you still dont understand why is noone having fun.
Im sorry, how dare you tell me what i love most about the game still exists? IS LEVELING TAKING A YEAR? NO? Then im sorry but being max level takes a week and is literally meaningless.
I think that's an unrealistic expectation given the direction and format of the game. Levelling will never be a long process again because of an expansion's features and Blizzard wanting people to participate in it, but you can still enjoy questing and levelling in any of the zones regardless of experience gains/increases. It all still exists. It's how you choose to perceive it and what you are expecting in return from it. If all you care is is experience gains then that's all questing is going to be for you.
@@edd_TV Delusional. Blizzard employees think the exact way you do, reduced the leveling to a joke and it costs them dearly. If they were right the game would have more players now than when the leveling was long, not less. Classis prooves it.
Yea they added crap to it. Some of it could be permanent most of it broke the game, but hey, its sasonal so its ok right?! Wrong. If im gonna loose all this progress im making and/or im asked to start over because they added a thingamabob here and there im sorry but im not doing it. I already made a character, he is important to me im not gonna treat it aa disposable. I dont treat myself and my time as disposable!
The game is barely a game. Its a cash shop with game skin over it.
No, its just you
season of discovery is trash
Sod isnt fun, its gimicky trash. Mmorpgs are not seasonal games.