Even if free will exists it is no argument for god. The fact is that there are people who claim to be that there is free will and ascribe this to a god. That is a fundamental difference.
These questions that nobody has has an answer to are not a good reason for me to believe in something I cannot be shown to be true.. Of course humans ability is limited to "know" or even begin to comprehend the reasons of our universe, but I have no trouble to reserve my belief in why it is. Given the best arguments of "something from nothing, why we have morality, the appearance of a finely tuned universe, DNA complexity" I still have only been given "How else could it be this without an intelligent designer" or "I don't know" the latter seems to be the reasonable response in my opinion because asserting an answer into how everything came to be based on the human experience where everything we comprehend in the observable universe doesn't come from nothing, but I don't think that gives me the right to think I understand things that are beyond what I or anyone else can be shown to be real or not with our capabilities.. But why would I begin to think that because our ability to understand that things must have (what we consider) meaning are anything but a human trait? and why do we need to "believe" that this is relevant at all to the function the universe? I am certainly not sure of any of this and have been shown nothing to convince me to put aside my reservations and believe in anything without good evidence. I hope there is a god and everything has a (what some consider) a meaning. I hope to find out the universe is governed by moral laws imparted by a creator, but for now I feel it would be a disservice to my ability to think properly if I were to just say 'GOD DID IT" also I am curious as to why Ben has jumped into bed with his particular religion when he has seemingly appeared to only resolve that the universe has been created and governed by a supernatural entity? pretty sure the 1000's of gods and religions that have been floating about will provide that. (I may be a little ignorant on his justification of his religious veiws) I just am confused by his rationality towards Judaism and thus must not believe in other dogmas with as much evidence as all the others. saying all this.. I'm not too clever and look forward to being slayed by you all
Why can't the universe be purely actual and the uncaused cause. Quantum physics show that there is the potential that the universe is in a perpetual loop going from a universe of matter to antimatter then back again over and over forever.
Peter England you'll have to ask Ben Shapiro, he is the one who says there as to be an uncaused cause. I'm saying if this is true why can't the universe be the uncaused cause.
The uncaused cause can't be the same type of physicality as what is caused. That's like saying a random computer code created the computer chips. God's spiritual "code" can create physical "reality" (I like the theory of Philotics), but trying to understand origins only materially is like studying hurricanes without knowing about butterflies around the world. (chaos theory) Even things that appear to pop in and out at random have/had a cause.
Peter England you said _"The uncaused cause can't be the same type of physicality as what is caused. "_ Why? The particles that make up the universe could be in a constant state of moving from one form to another but never change themselves. Just like water can change from gas to solid to liquid but the molecule that makes it (H20) doesn't change. You said _"but trying to understand origins only materially"_ I am not doing that I am looking at both the materialistic and supernatural possibilities. I just have not been given a convincing reason why materialistic explainiton have been written off by you. Based on our current knowledge it seems as good an answer as anything else.
H2O molecules are physically acted upon to physically change. A computer simulation is the best analogy I can think of that describes one existence (digital) relying on a completely different existence (circuits) that it itself cannot examine. If simulated people were programmed to see themselves with full biological forms, including DNA, they'd never know the code that truly originated them. Just because we can see molecules doesn't mean we weren't spiritually originated. You said "Based on our current knowledge it seems as good an answer as anything else." Dark matter popping in and out at random? That's why Ben said "if you believe in a predictable universe with laws that govern it... if you do not believe we live in a chaotic universe without meaning." Sure "dark matter" pops in and out, but originally, it must have been caused, and directed, to form progenitors.
Even if free will exists it is no argument for god. The fact is that there are people who claim to be that there is free will and ascribe this to a god. That is a fundamental difference.
These questions that nobody has has an answer to are not a good reason for me to believe in something I cannot be shown to be true..
Of course humans ability is limited to "know" or even begin to comprehend the reasons of our universe, but I have no trouble to reserve my belief in why it is. Given the best arguments of "something from nothing, why we have morality, the appearance of a finely tuned universe, DNA complexity" I still have only been given "How else could it be this without an intelligent designer" or "I don't know" the latter seems to be the reasonable response in my opinion because asserting an answer into how everything came to be based on the human experience where everything we comprehend in the observable universe doesn't come from nothing, but I don't think that gives me the right to think I understand things that are beyond what I or anyone else can be shown to be real or not with our capabilities..
But why would I begin to think that because our ability to understand that things must have (what we consider) meaning are anything but a human trait? and why do we need to "believe" that this is relevant at all to the function the universe?
I am certainly not sure of any of this and have been shown nothing to convince me to put aside my reservations and believe in anything without good evidence.
I hope there is a god and everything has a (what some consider) a meaning. I hope to find out the universe is governed by moral laws imparted by a creator, but for now I feel it would be a disservice to my ability to think properly if I were to just say 'GOD DID IT"
also I am curious as to why Ben has jumped into bed with his particular religion when he has seemingly appeared to only resolve that the universe has been created and governed by a supernatural entity? pretty sure the 1000's of gods and religions that have been floating about will provide that. (I may be a little ignorant on his justification of his religious veiws)
I just am confused by his rationality towards Judaism and thus must not believe in other dogmas with as much evidence as all the others.
saying all this.. I'm not too clever and look forward to being slayed by you all
Why can't the universe be purely actual and the uncaused cause. Quantum physics show that there is the potential that the universe is in a perpetual loop going from a universe of matter to antimatter then back again over and over forever.
How did it begin 300+ trillion cycles ago?
Peter England you'll have to ask Ben Shapiro, he is the one who says there as to be an uncaused cause. I'm saying if this is true why can't the universe be the uncaused cause.
The uncaused cause can't be the same type of physicality as what is caused. That's like saying a random computer code created the computer chips. God's spiritual "code" can create physical "reality" (I like the theory of Philotics), but trying to understand origins only materially is like studying hurricanes without knowing about butterflies around the world. (chaos theory) Even things that appear to pop in and out at random have/had a cause.
Peter England you said _"The uncaused cause can't be the same type of physicality as what is caused. "_
Why? The particles that make up the universe could be in a constant state of moving from one form to another but never change themselves. Just like water can change from gas to solid to liquid but the molecule that makes it (H20) doesn't change.
You said _"but trying to understand origins only materially"_ I am not doing that I am looking at both the materialistic and supernatural possibilities. I just have not been given a convincing reason why materialistic explainiton have been written off by you. Based on our current knowledge it seems as good an answer as anything else.
H2O molecules are physically acted upon to physically change.
A computer simulation is the best analogy I can think of that describes one existence (digital) relying on a completely different existence (circuits) that it itself cannot examine. If simulated people were programmed to see themselves with full biological forms, including DNA, they'd never know the code that truly originated them. Just because we can see molecules doesn't mean we weren't spiritually originated.
You said "Based on our current knowledge it seems as good an answer as anything else." Dark matter popping in and out at random? That's why Ben said "if you believe in a predictable universe with laws that govern it... if you do not believe we live in a chaotic universe without meaning."
Sure "dark matter" pops in and out, but originally, it must have been caused, and directed, to form progenitors.