My family emmigrated from SA in 1986 to New Zealand and then later Australia... you asked about the costs of emmigration. Well, we no longer regret this as my family now enjoys comfort and safety... BUT it took me about 20 years to really settle and adopt this country as home. Emmigration was HARD on us all. I was only 12 years old and had to later work through trauma of leaving my homeland. There most certainly are costs, especially psychological, because you lose one of the deepest parts fo your identity and sense of belonging. I wish all South Africans so much love and blessings...
Similar for me. As I now live in the UK after leaving SA and going to NZ in 1984. I still miss my beloved SA and think about it every day. I thought I was on my own about this but loved your noted feelings. Go well Meisie.
Thanks to Dylan for hosting this. Putting these conversations out there are great. I'd like to emphasize identity, it's critical. "Hierarchy of identity" is new to me, beautiful way of stating it, I understand. What you identify as 1st, should be the highest and your foundation.
Really enjoyed this thought provoking discussion between two great young thinking minds. People need to figure out who and what they are otherwise somebody else will do that for you.
Fascinating watch, thank you gentlemen. You touched on a fair few points that I have been giving long thought to. Especially as a recent immigrant from RSA to the UK. You have a new viewer of your content and information, I will be digging into your body of work. Thank you
In the Americas, the colonizers kept their own languages. The fact that the Afrikaner/Boer, made a new language, is proof that they are an African tribe, not a European nation grafted onto another continent. Their roots are in Africa.
My grandfather set up a business in East Africa in 1923 and grew it to a large enterprise employing 50,000+ local indigenous people. He used to say that without the settlers bringing civilization to Africa, it would still be a Third World country. Sadly nobody talks about this as it's not politically correct, but in reality, it's the main cause of all of the problems in South Africa and other African countries.
I am a Boer. An Afrikaner is a European living in the Cape colony! My ancestors were citizens of Boer republics- not Afrikaner republics. They fought the British in two Boer wars, not Afrikaner wars. Since unification, Boere and Afrikaners have mixed to the extent that they are now one. But I am still a Boer in my heart. Not a Afrikaner from the pragmatic side of our people.
Your discussion reminded me of Siener Van Rensburg. After one of his visions which upset him deeply, he opened his Bible and his eye caught Exodus 14:14: The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace.
Good discussion! But I think the talk trivialised the English speaking SA position! In fact, English speaking South Africans and Afrikaaners have inter married for the past 2 centuries hence English speaking South Africans with Afrikaans names and vice versa so I don't think "emigration to the Anglo world is that simple for English speaking SAns we struggle in Anglo countries in as much as Afrikaaners who have emigrated " but everything else I agree with, the Afrikaaners are a unique cultural racial group in Africa! Great talk!
I think it's still true of purer English people in places like Durban, but realistically in the Cape, English people are basically like half-Afrikaners in all but name lol.
It is very interesting. Thanks for the information. I just want to mention something I am hearing so much lately. The word “boer” that is pronounced in a very wrong way. “boer” pronounced as “boor” has a very different meaning as “farmer”. boor definition: 1. a person who is rude and does not consider other people's feelings 2. a person who is rude. It gets confused with “boer” - farmer. Pronunciation: [ou] as in “you”. There is only the Afrikaans pronunciation that is correct. It gives people the wrong idea that the white SA-cans are boorish, stupid, and backwards!!! How very different from the truth! A true farmer is actually very intelligent, hardworking, and up to date with new inventions and ideas.
The English have a very strange " despising hatred" for the Afrikaner Boer People Maybe it's because they were unwelcome Intruders and the actual mass murderers of the Afrikaners, they resent them but are also Jealous of their strong cultural identity.. There is also a lot of Bad Blood between them with the English constantly undermining the Afrikaners position on their own country And so the English created... Boerbashing a private joke amongst English speaking Families that Mock and Humiliate Afrikaners behind their backs .... but they still continue to cluster towards Afrikaans gatherings even though they REFUSE to speak the Afrikaans Language.... Weird psychology .. siestog
We are neither Boorish nor Backward...!! but to elevate themselves in their own Class System of Cultural Apartheid the English find it imperative to push the Afrikaner down ..😂😂 ons lag net vir hulle
I spent my teens in Zambia and my teens in Cape Town. But since then in the UK and now in my 60s. Quite a big part of me will always be Capetonian - not so much South African, but definitely I connected deeply with The Cape and that persists. It's painful to see the steady degeneration into failed state and degeneration.
"Our land(Apartheid South Africa) you see was a laboratory for all kinds of perverse laws and human relations - but with one theme in common - that they were based on fear and hatred and ignorance and greed.' Afrikaner poet and anti-apartheid activist Breyten Breytenbach
Yes the Boer war was a terrible tragedy. But the Afrikaners were the victors, SA was effectively granted independence in 1931 and being the majority the Afrikaners were to take control over not just OFS and Tvl but the entire country. Another thing worth noting is that every developed country was very critical of what Britain was doing. One half Afrikaner half English speaker (not “English”) here.
I am shocked to hear that there were more deaths in the concentration camps of the Tweede Vryheidsoorlog, than on either side of the battle. That's enough to rip a nation apart. Also, the British had a professional army of trained soldiers. The Boer side consisted of career farmers, without a military budget.
Een van die grootste irritasies vir my ook - as Afrikaanse akteur en skrywer: Iemand wat my in 'n blik wil druk met 'n etiket op. My voorvader aan vaderskant Harmen Jansz Potgieter het in 1795 uit Wesfale Duitsland hier gearriveer.
a government-backed group that settles in a new country or region. The land that's claimed by a colonist is usually already occupied by another group of people. A colonist can also be called a settler, someone who helps start a settlement in a new land.
As an Afrikaans actor I feel I have to face reality in a metropolis like Johannesburg to be able to interpret the characters I portray against the realpolitik of the day.
Do westerners think ? Do they think of Afrikaners ? Why should they think about Afrikaners ? Is there anything for them to exploit ? I emigrated to the UK 30+ years ago : in that time I have been fortunate to have lived and worked in Asia for 20+ years.... Say no more ....
I can see the reason for wanting to do your own thing. I used to have parties in high school that I wanted to be calm and normal affairs. There were kids who were obnoxious, and I couldn't tell them not to come without offending them and maybe starting a fight. How do you say "it's okay to come if you don't bring your characteristic bullshit" in a polite way to people who are immature to the point that anything that references one of their flaws is liable to make them violent? Of course, they're entitled to come if they would feel offended for not being allowed to. [rolls eyes] Of course you guys are in a more dire situation, which still mirrors the situation, only instead of guests that might knock things off the fridge by shoving each other, you're guests would be prone to murdering you for your ethnic background. This notion that being exclusionary makes you a bad person is WRONG! You have the right to set up your own thing and live in your own way.
If South Africa isn't a colony than the land should be equally owned right? Black land ownership is the same as white land ownership there? There's no discrepancy?
@@maiaallman4635 your right. it's all so simple. It's not racism, or generational colonialism that keeps certain groups in endless poverty. They're just lazy. Ignorance is bliss I guess
@@lindamatolengwe1637 Oh dear, the ignorance is strong in this one. They likened themselves to Israel of the OT, they NEVER said they are them. And if you ACTUALLY read the Bible, God said to go out in the whole earth and spread the Word, so yes, chosen to spread the Word.
What do Afrikanners think about what is going on in other African countries that are kicking out the westerners and inviting the Russians in? Many of these countries have suffered under colonialism and terrorism. It seems like the Russians are actually helping them stop terrorism at least.
What Mr Van Zyl and his sort dont understand about us natives is our people-centric civilisation & his ancestors failure to usurp it. He arrogantly mispronounces Setswana le Batswana and then puts words into our Oral history. "I've got a tswana friend............"Ba neye lefatshe"(give them some land to work on ) is what he meant to say. Ja but my Chinese neighbour who came five years ago can even call our Setswana poems & totems for clan names. Now he goes through wave after wave of virtue-signalling about history whilst practising some plausible-deniability in this interview. Afrikaans was spoken by mostly-black people at the Cape as Kombuis-taal. These people called themselves Afrikanders. It Mr Van zyl must also note these are the same people who guided their ancestors into the hinterland. The betrayal obviously came swiftly as predicted by the ancient Khoi-khoi & Khe ancestors who they now arrogantly lump into 'khoisan". Afrikaans was a language of trade for the common man at the cape. Some were already fluent in dutch before 1652. Die gennotskaap van regte Afrikaaners made it a white language in 1875 after the genocide of our Khoi-khoi & khe ancestors. Remnants of that group trekked to the land of rivers (middeveld a,ka. central South Africa to avoid the scourge of whitemen.. That is how the language moved into the interior. The great trek came after the Smallpox & polio epidemichad decimated us in Camissa. STOP white washing history... Accept and move on.
You have totally missed the point of this interview sir, in stead you reveal your poor understanding of historical facts and revert to provocative statements that are far removed from facts.
& How have i done that herr Vogel ? Is it wrong to defend how our language is represented. The guy cannot speak setswana fluently and was merely virtue signaslling by throwing in the my tswana friend statement @@andrevogel1974 Ask any Setswana speaking person if the first part of what he said makes sense... Its belittling my language....ua-cam.com/video/7EMqt7d-gtQ/v-deo.html
The fact that Afrikaans is also a language for black and colored people doesn't mean it isn't also ours and a quintessential part of our identity. We also aren't morally responsible for diseases like smallpox which spreads of its own accord. You will also never be the same thing as a Khoi-Khoi or San and you only pretend that "we wuz all Afrikangs" so that you can claim all of South Africa belongs to you. The "white-washed" version of history is the real one. We have the records to prove it and all you have are stories, which don't count at all as evidence; and wishful thinking.
Afrikaners did not call themselves Afrikaners because of a language. And it was BROWN not BLACK people that spoke it in the Cape. There were nearly NO BLACK PEOPLE in the Cape at the time. Baie, Piesang, Piering are just some examples of MALAYSIAN words in Afrikaans.
Honestly ernsts" tswana friend " story sounds like BS . concidering that tswana donts live near any coast.so how could they see any ships. And how could can this " tswana friends" speak for the whole tswana ethnic group. This whole story just sounds like BS.how could native Africans differentiate between white groups who did the same thing.
Ernst makes me more hopeful than anyone else on UA-cam!
That's fantastic to hear.
Yes but the world is a woke mess
This is very interesting. Thank y'all.
My family emmigrated from SA in 1986 to New Zealand and then later Australia... you asked about the costs of emmigration. Well, we no longer regret this as my family now enjoys comfort and safety... BUT it took me about 20 years to really settle and adopt this country as home. Emmigration was HARD on us all. I was only 12 years old and had to later work through trauma of leaving my homeland. There most certainly are costs, especially psychological, because you lose one of the deepest parts fo your identity and sense of belonging. I wish all South Africans so much love and blessings...
Similar for me. As I now live in the UK after leaving SA and going to NZ in 1984.
I still miss my beloved SA and think about it every day. I thought I was on my own about this but loved your noted feelings.
Go well Meisie.
Baia dankie!! Blessings to you too! @@SAS477
“You can take the boy out of Africa but you can’t take Africa out of the boy.”
South africa is still beter to live in than Australia
You can describe Afrikaners as like Amish in America, but who embrace modern technology, science, clothing and any other modern benefit.
As I am getting older there is a hunger of wanting to go back to my Afrikaans roots. Great interview, thanks.
Thanks to Dylan for hosting this. Putting these conversations out there are great.
I'd like to emphasize identity, it's critical. "Hierarchy of identity" is new to me, beautiful way of stating it, I understand. What you identify as 1st, should be the highest and your foundation.
Thank you for inviting me on your show for this great conversation, Dylan.
Thank you for coming on, Ernst. Always a pleasure.
More of your great perspectives shared Ernst. 👊
Cool coffee mug. Wonder how many people get the reference to Gen CR de Wet. Nice 😊
You're not alone, lots of us are doing our part to build. South Africa does have a future, because we are here.
Thank you.
Good luck. I'm not optimistic: the population equation is constantly against you.
Really enjoyed this thought provoking discussion between two great young thinking minds. People need to figure out who and what they are otherwise somebody else will do that for you.
Fascinating watch, thank you gentlemen. You touched on a fair few points that I have been giving long thought to. Especially as a recent immigrant from RSA to the UK.
You have a new viewer of your content and information, I will be digging into your body of work. Thank you
Two of my favourite South African content creators. Thanks for an interesting discussion
In the Americas, the colonizers kept their own languages.
The fact that the Afrikaner/Boer, made a new language, is proof that they are an African tribe, not a European nation grafted onto another continent.
Their roots are in Africa.
Delusional 😂
@@african1
I agree I will never consider any Boer an African no way not with their trangressions.
They're also unrepentant about their trangressions.
@@maureenjackson2041 exactly
My grandfather set up a business in East Africa in 1923 and grew it to a large enterprise employing 50,000+ local indigenous people. He used to say that without the settlers bringing civilization to Africa, it would still be a Third World country. Sadly nobody talks about this as it's not politically correct, but in reality, it's the main cause of all of the problems in South Africa and other African countries.
Yes Ernst, the English do not run with the Afrikaners perspective of it all. Good explanation
Great interview thank you
I am a Boer. An Afrikaner is a European living in the Cape colony! My ancestors were citizens of Boer republics- not Afrikaner republics. They fought the British in two Boer wars, not Afrikaner wars. Since unification, Boere and Afrikaners have mixed to the extent that they are now one. But I am still a Boer in my heart. Not a Afrikaner from the pragmatic side of our people.
Loved this interview. Thank you 😊
Your discussion reminded me of Siener Van Rensburg. After one of his visions which upset him deeply, he opened his Bible and his eye caught Exodus 14:14: The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace.
Good discussion! But I think the talk trivialised the English speaking SA position! In fact, English speaking South Africans and Afrikaaners have inter married for the past 2 centuries hence English speaking South Africans with Afrikaans names and vice versa so I don't think "emigration to the Anglo world is that simple for English speaking SAns we struggle in Anglo countries in as much as Afrikaaners who have emigrated " but everything else I agree with, the Afrikaaners are a unique cultural racial group in Africa! Great talk!
I completely agree I am an English speaking Venter . I tried living in an "anglo" country it was impossible there is no commonality .
I think it's still true of purer English people in places like Durban, but realistically in the Cape, English people are basically like half-Afrikaners in all but name lol.
@@Oatmeal_Mann Die Kaap is Hollands😅
It is very interesting. Thanks for the information.
I just want to mention something I am hearing so much lately.
The word “boer” that is pronounced in a very wrong way.
“boer” pronounced as “boor” has a very different meaning as “farmer”.
boor definition: 1. a person who is rude and does not consider other people's feelings 2. a person who is rude.
It gets confused with “boer” - farmer. Pronunciation: [ou] as in “you”.
There is only the Afrikaans pronunciation that is correct.
It gives people the wrong idea that the white SA-cans are boorish, stupid, and backwards!!! How very different from the truth! A true farmer is actually very intelligent, hardworking, and up to date with new inventions and ideas.
The English have a very strange " despising hatred" for the Afrikaner Boer People Maybe it's because they were unwelcome Intruders and the actual mass murderers of the Afrikaners, they resent them but are also Jealous of their strong cultural identity..
There is also a lot of Bad Blood between them with the English constantly undermining the Afrikaners position on their own country
And so the English created... Boerbashing a private joke amongst English speaking Families that Mock and Humiliate Afrikaners behind their backs .... but they still continue to cluster towards Afrikaans gatherings even though they REFUSE to speak the Afrikaans Language....
Weird psychology .. siestog
We are neither Boorish nor Backward...!! but to elevate themselves in their own Class System of Cultural Apartheid the English find it imperative to push the Afrikaner down ..😂😂 ons lag net vir hulle
@@salomemalherbe677 Even easier, it's like"Boo" but with an added "R"
I spent my teens in Zambia and my teens in Cape Town. But since then in the UK and now in my 60s. Quite a big part of me will always be Capetonian - not so much South African, but definitely I connected deeply with The Cape and that persists. It's painful to see the steady degeneration into failed state and degeneration.
Many many jobs cannot be done from home
Tried it a lot.
I think the afrikaners are the greatest ever
They came and brought light to africa..when africa was covered in darkness
😂 delusional people everywhere
"Our land(Apartheid South Africa) you see was a laboratory for all kinds of perverse laws and human relations - but with one theme in common - that they were based on fear and hatred and ignorance and greed.' Afrikaner poet and anti-apartheid activist Breyten Breytenbach
Yes the Boer war was a terrible tragedy. But the Afrikaners were the victors, SA was effectively granted independence in 1931 and being the majority the Afrikaners were to take control over not just OFS and Tvl but the entire country. Another thing worth noting is that every developed country was very critical of what Britain was doing.
One half Afrikaner half English speaker (not “English”) here.
I am shocked to hear that there were more deaths in the concentration camps of the Tweede Vryheidsoorlog, than on either side of the battle. That's enough to rip a nation apart. Also, the British had a professional army of trained soldiers. The Boer side consisted of career farmers, without a military budget.
Looks like Ernst is long lost family hehe. Roux family tree here.
Een van die grootste irritasies vir my ook - as Afrikaanse akteur en skrywer: Iemand wat my in 'n blik wil druk met 'n etiket op. My voorvader aan vaderskant Harmen Jansz Potgieter het in 1795 uit Wesfale Duitsland hier gearriveer.
a government-backed group that settles in a new country or region. The land that's claimed by a colonist is usually already occupied by another group of people. A colonist can also be called a settler, someone who helps start a settlement in a new land.
Now that there is no longer any catholic protestant conflict in Europe, surely there can be an Afrikaner repatriation program.
As an Afrikaans actor I feel I have to face reality in a metropolis like Johannesburg to be able to interpret the characters I portray against the realpolitik of the day.
Ik ben een Afrikaander
You can not describe any one person or one people in a word or two..Life is far more complicated than that.
Yes, true. But sometimes it is necessary to speak in generals for the sake of conversation.
Do westerners think ? Do they think of Afrikaners ? Why should they think about Afrikaners ? Is there anything for them to exploit ? I emigrated to the UK 30+ years ago : in that time I have been fortunate to have lived and worked in Asia for 20+ years.... Say no more ....
high five bruv
The diamonds in the British crown was stolen from South Africa
No they were gifted. That's why we're keeping them lol.
@@CharlesRexElizabethRegina Actually and very technically, they are on long-term loan.
Actually the diamond was purchased from the Cullinan Diamond mining company for 240 000 Pounds at the time.
I can see the reason for wanting to do your own thing. I used to have parties in high school that I wanted to be calm and normal affairs. There were kids who were obnoxious, and I couldn't tell them not to come without offending them and maybe starting a fight. How do you say "it's okay to come if you don't bring your characteristic bullshit" in a polite way to people who are immature to the point that anything that references one of their flaws is liable to make them violent? Of course, they're entitled to come if they would feel offended for not being allowed to. [rolls eyes] Of course you guys are in a more dire situation, which still mirrors the situation, only instead of guests that might knock things off the fridge by shoving each other, you're guests would be prone to murdering you for your ethnic background.
This notion that being exclusionary makes you a bad person is WRONG! You have the right to set up your own thing and live in your own way.
If South Africa isn't a colony than the land should be equally owned right? Black land ownership is the same as white land ownership there? There's no discrepancy?
Get a job, take out a bank loan, buy a property. Same for everybody.
@@maiaallman4635 your right. it's all so simple. It's not racism, or generational colonialism that keeps certain groups in endless poverty.
They're just lazy.
Ignorance is bliss I guess
You paint westerners with a wide brush
Afrikaners are Westerners/Europeans
You guys only got caught. Others Europeans and America did the same
things.
Pl
A nice whitewashed story of the Afrikaners. I love it.
Cry harder. It's the truth and we have historical records to prove it, while all you have to counter it is stories, which are worthless in debates.
@@Oatmeal_Mann Like when you called yourselves the "chosen people" right. I bet that's also in the bible records. Lies can also be recorded my friend.
@@lindamatolengwe1637 Oh dear, the ignorance is strong in this one. They likened themselves to Israel of the OT, they NEVER said they are them.
And if you ACTUALLY read the Bible, God said to go out in the whole earth and spread the Word, so yes, chosen to spread the Word.
What do Afrikanners think about what is going on in other African countries that are kicking out the westerners and inviting the Russians in? Many of these countries have suffered under colonialism and terrorism. It seems like the Russians are actually helping them stop terrorism at least.
What Mr Van Zyl and his sort dont understand about us natives is our people-centric civilisation & his ancestors failure to usurp it. He arrogantly mispronounces Setswana le Batswana and then puts words into our Oral history. "I've got a tswana friend............"Ba neye lefatshe"(give them some land to work on ) is what he meant to say. Ja but my Chinese neighbour who came five years ago can even call our Setswana poems & totems for clan names. Now he goes through wave after wave of virtue-signalling about history whilst practising some plausible-deniability in this interview. Afrikaans was spoken by mostly-black people at the Cape as Kombuis-taal. These people called themselves Afrikanders. It Mr Van zyl must also note these are the same people who guided their ancestors into the hinterland. The betrayal obviously came swiftly as predicted by the ancient Khoi-khoi & Khe ancestors who they now arrogantly lump into 'khoisan". Afrikaans was a language of trade for the common man at the cape. Some were already fluent in dutch before 1652. Die gennotskaap van regte Afrikaaners made it a white language in 1875 after the genocide of our Khoi-khoi & khe ancestors. Remnants of that group trekked to the land of rivers (middeveld a,ka. central South Africa to avoid the scourge of whitemen.. That is how the language moved into the interior. The great trek came after the Smallpox & polio epidemichad decimated us in Camissa. STOP white washing history... Accept and move on.
Hostile bitterness will eat you up my friend....... Oh , and good luck with the little yellow colonialists 😂
You have totally missed the point of this interview sir, in stead you reveal your poor understanding of historical facts and revert to provocative statements that are far removed from facts.
& How have i done that herr Vogel ? Is it wrong to defend how our language is represented. The guy cannot speak setswana fluently and was merely virtue signaslling by throwing in the my tswana friend statement @@andrevogel1974 Ask any Setswana speaking person if the first part of what he said makes sense... Its belittling my language....ua-cam.com/video/7EMqt7d-gtQ/v-deo.html
The fact that Afrikaans is also a language for black and colored people doesn't mean it isn't also ours and a quintessential part of our identity. We also aren't morally responsible for diseases like smallpox which spreads of its own accord. You will also never be the same thing as a Khoi-Khoi or San and you only pretend that "we wuz all Afrikangs" so that you can claim all of South Africa belongs to you. The "white-washed" version of history is the real one. We have the records to prove it and all you have are stories, which don't count at all as evidence; and wishful thinking.
Afrikaners did not call themselves Afrikaners because of a language. And it was BROWN not BLACK people that spoke it in the Cape. There were nearly NO BLACK PEOPLE in the Cape at the time. Baie, Piesang, Piering are just some examples of MALAYSIAN words in Afrikaans.
Honestly ernsts" tswana friend " story sounds like BS . concidering that tswana donts live near any coast.so how could they see any ships.
And how could can this " tswana friends" speak for the whole tswana ethnic group.
This whole story just sounds like BS.how could native Africans differentiate between white groups who did the same thing.
He NEVER said that's when the Tswanas met them, when they just arrived😅. You are putting words in his mouth.