How to Test if your Breville Dual Boiler or Oracle Coffee Machine Will Likely Survive a Descale.
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- Here is a method you can use to test how safe it is to descale your Breville dual boiler series machine! Hopefully, this will help you make up your own mind before you take what has traditionally been a risky path for a lot of these models of machine.
Enjoy!
Some other tidbits of info that I forgot to include:
Removing the internal o-rings did not affect readings much
I smashed a probe open and found a low resistance across the inside of the ceramic - indicating that salts from water or previous descales could be permeating into the ceramic material.
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I am very happy you did this video because I would like to add some insight that I got from talking on the phone with a Breville Supervisor Technician.
I purchased a dual boiler 2 years ago and it needed major repairs due to descaling. First year I descaled 1 time and second year 2 times
From the conversation I had with the technician, These are the points he made.
Water needs to have minerals, If using RO water you need to add some spring or mineral water otherwise corrosion will happen within certain parts.
There are people who claim that you can take Distilled or RO water and add Potassium Bicarbonate with the expectations of never having to descale the machine.
He said that regardless of the water scaling happens even in humid environments when left in storage and without use.
If one lives in a humid area, Calcium is in the air and will get to the machine. He even suggested as soon as I get the machine back from the post office to descale it as there will be scaling already forming due to storage because where I live it is very humid in the summer.
Another reason that scale is inevitable in a dual boiler is The boilers don't fill all the way which doesn't help fir scale build up.
When water is heated it will scale at those temperatures regardless.
Since my machine was just repaired one month ago there is still 5 months warranty left from the repair.
He said you can never destroy your machine from over descaling, water and calcium do and because there are so many fine parts inside the machine some small tubes can easily be clogged due to small particles scale that didn't completely dissolve.
When not sure he advised to double up on the descale solution and leave it in there for 40 minutes or longer instead of 20 as the default programing of the dual boiler.
There are many people who will not descale their machines and if they never do, it will only cause major breakdown a few years down the road and major parts will need to be replaced, making it very costly.
I just did a Descale yesterday after one month, making 2 to 3 espressos a day using 80% RO water and 20% Spring mountain water.
I had no issues, machine filled up and all parts worked properly.
I will be descaling on a monthly basis, but I will also inspect the machine every 6 months for O-rings and I will also check the probes for the 100 Mega olms as per your recommendations by checking the before descaling.
If you like I can report my findings after my 6 months are up. I want to see if this machine will have the same issues if I descale monthly. According to Breville I should not have those problems.
He also said if the scale doesn't completely leave from the probes that could be a major reason why the boiler won't refill. So as you recommended in other videos it is a good idea to clean the probe well if there is a malfunction. I like your idea better. if the readings are low, replace the probe and then descale.
It seems one has to really pamper these machines.
I also suggest anyone who has a Dual Boiler and has never descaled it to do so before their warranty expires, this way Breville pays the shipping both ways and they restore the machine to factory conditions.
Thank you so much for this amazing detailed video :)
Thanks! I'm not sure - in my opinion, what extra benefit descaling that often would bring. Afterall, the descale process on these only really covers the boilers. It doesn't take you through running the group or steam wand for example, like their other models do. This probe issue is not related to scale buildup, in fact, scale would actually increase the resistance and therefore would lessen the likelihood of this issue happening. I think its salts from previous descales that build up and permeate inside the probes that is the root of the issue. Either that or some other mineral building up on them from the steam.
@@BrevTech In your opinion, one should never descale their Dual Boiler?
If we don't descale then the calcium and lime buildup will eventually cause a breakdown in the boilers?
One can descale the group head and the steaming milk wand by using the cleaning cycle where it cleans the group head and the steaming wand as you can enable the wand while the process is taking place. That is the clean me function where you get it from the menu and it says push.
If descaling was so bad then why is it that Breville urges to descale the machine more then 4 times a year. Wouldn't it be to their benefit to say never descale the machine and you will never have a problem? I was told to do it as often as needed.
From what I see, these machines are flaky, many people who bought these machines complains that after the warranty they break down.
Your videos are great because by replacing the O rings and checking the probes one can descale their machine and hopefully maintain it for years to come.
Professional machines are descaled very often, why should we neglect to do this procedure to save our investments for the future as these machines are not given.
i said "that often" as you said you descale every month. I show why I think descaling is important in the video. I just doubt they need doing that much - especially given the water you use
@@BrevTech Got it. The only reason I am doing it once a month is because of the warranty. I want to see if descaling will make it break down again, and to see if the probes will fail. They sent me free Descale so why not, if the tech said it won't hurt the machine, why not take him on his word.
Under normal circumstances i would descale 4 times a year, but I just got super spooked that my machine broke twice with major repairs due to not descaling enough regardless of the water I use.
thank you so much for your great help!
Yall are probably going to laugh at me for this solution but - it worked.
I had my steam entirely fail out after a descale. I’ve encountered valv many times and simply needed to kick out of descale mode, let it heat a bit with the screw open, and blow whatever scale is in the way out the bottom. Pump always seemed to come on at this point.
This last time though…. No pump? I even had some liquid slowly flowing out into the drip tray. I figured the descale solution was coating the probes or not allowing it to heat. I unscrewed the steam tip, attached a silicone tube to it, opened the steam valve, and blew into it. Much to my surprise, there was an open pathway through the drain! Closed the drain, placed a big bowl of water on top of the machine, and started a siphon into the steamer. Let it flow for a while and kicked the machine on. Seems like it fixed the problem and I won’t have to send it in! BDB lives 2015-????!!!
Well put together video thank you. It gave me the courage to descale my 2015 dual boiler for the first time. My probe measured around 100 MΩ and I went for it. While I had the top open I removed each of the probes and cleaned them with a fine scotch-brite pad. They all had a good deal of buildup on them. Not sure if this is beneficial at all. My machine did have the three beeps after descaling and trying to use the steam wand, but it functioned OK, and eventually the three beeps stopped.
The buildup shouldn’t affect anything too much - other than the boiler would fill a little more to get over the scaled part.
Thank you for that insightful video. Two questions, if I might.
1. Do you know how I find out which Gen my dual boiler is? Or do I just pull out the probes and inspect the material?
2. In your opinion, are Brevilles just less well made and throw up more issues than more reputable makes? They seem to pack a lot of features for the money but at the cost of poorer build quality.
Thanks. 1. Look at the date inside where the water tank goes. Gen 3 came out about august 2022 i think. 2. All machines have their design faults, but the seals on these have certainly caused more problems than most over the years. These were vastly improved in the gen3 versions tho. More features usually means more things to go wrong, but I think if you have a gen 3 then you don't have too much to worry about (as far as i know) But if you have an older version then I suggest you get it serviced every 18-24 months.
Thank you so much for that information. Alas, I need to service regularly
Bought a dual boiler at half price. Ran great for four years before the descale notice appeared. .Ran descale using Breville descalar and paid the other half in repair costs,
Really hope Breville see this and finally cotton on. Brilliant insight. 👍
Descale killed my last Breville. Unlikely to ever do it on my current one
I wonder if the reason those probes malfunction, is they just degraded themselves over the years? Or water damage by o-ring leak. Thank you for your video, I thought I knew enough about my BDB. But still have something to learn, I think I got a BMW espresso machine.
ha ha yes, a good analogy. I think age certainly plays a part, but the machine in the video was only 3 years old,. I believe It's a combination of some kind of mineral buildup (inside and outside of the probes) and leaking probes imo.
Story time:
After owning Brevile Oracle Dual Boiler for 6months, it requested Descale which I did. Guess what? The Selenoid died after finishing Descale.
Good thing It was under warranty, it got replaced.
few weeks later, passing by Goodguys, I saw Marketing rep getting the new Oracle Jet ready in the showroom.
I went to ask her few questions, once of the questions I asked why my selonide died she said that you did descale right? I was like yeah.. and that was the reason.
She said descaling is not that good for the machine; I was like, Okay. Then she said, make sure you clean your machine every week and flush it and set your water settings to 1 as you live in Australia and water is clean in general, and use filter water not Tap water.
Long story short, don't descale flush your machine weekly and you will never have to descale it.
I've just got a used v3 machine to repair for personal use. This has answered a lot of my questions about the descale issue. Are the probes solid metal as far as you can tell? I'm wondering if the surface of the "insulator" is the only part able to absorb/adsorb salts from the descaling solution, or if the metal could somehow be porous or have a coating that erodes and changes the conductivity of the system.
Thanks so much for this great analysis
no, the rods are just solid metal. I think its because they are a little permeable. You can rinse the outside, but it also gets inside them. I forgot to show it on the video, but i smashed one apart and found you could measure resistance across the internal side of the ceramic, so it must be the salts from previous descales or water overtime getting in there.
I was just thinking power companies use demineralised water to clean salts from their high voltage insulators. I wonder if soaking in that would have a bigger effect on the probes insulation properties.
good idea. I'm actually trying 3 different chemicals right now in an overnight soak. Vinegar, citric acid and bicarb. I will post back the results. Even if they work, i guess it still remains to be seen how long they will last - if indeed they are permeable. maybe i need to go buy a decent microscope!
Hi there, great video as always….very specific question to ask. I bought a second hand 920 6 months ago…and have only used filtered water from a peak water kettle. I was told the machine was descaled before I bought it. (I bought it from a lady who repairs and resells sage/brevilles).
The water in my area isn’t very hard…my regular kettle has no sign of lime scale after 6 years of use. Should I be worried and possibly look at descaling…or should I just incorporate some mineral water and see how I get on?
I can't tell you for sure i'm afraid. Water at mine is 60ppm and I see very few machines with any scale. I would just do it whenever you service it (like every 18 months or so). Buy new probes, replace the o-rings on the steam boiler then it should be all set for a descale.
I have a broken bes980 and having trouble trouble shooting if a descale blew the thermo stat and thermal fuse of the steam boiler and potentially the element or there is also evidence of a leak and corrosion on the boiler and unsure if that then damaged the triac board ( no obvious damage I can see visually )
Symptoms are the Machine makes no attempt for the machine to heat the steam boiler or grouphead boiler (completely room temp)
Tried emptying tanks and manually
Filling and cleaning probes but no luck
yes triac board for both those, then you likely have a thermal fuse/stat to replace on the steam boiler. Ideally you need a megger to check the boiler to see if its even worth repairing. i have another video about this.
Thanks appreciate the response
I have a 2022 Oracle Touch firmware a1.5. When I did the live debug I got these results. Cold machine: high probe: 1072, low: 36. After heating up: high probe: 198, low: 16. Does this mean my probes are shot or could this be the newer machine with lower default settings?
Maybe. Did the steam pump come on when you switched it on? if so then that's interesting as they may have reduced it. I've not had the latest version in to test. Does your have the gen 3 probes (plastic ones)? These were released post mid 2022
@@BrevTech I’ve not opened it up yet.
After pulling a shot on the oracle touch I am getting 10 15ml of water drips from grouphead over the proceeding 30 seconds. Wondering if it’s a solenoid problem. Nothing wrong with screen.
are you getting wet pucks too? any buzzing? it does sound like a solenoid problem.
I’ll have to check for buzzing. Wet puck on top yes. I see you have a repair kit . I’ll listen for the buzzing. Thank you for the response. Your videos are great.
I bought my BES980XL back in 2014 and have only had the thermistor fail on the steamer side... My be just lucky?
10yrs? Surely you’ve changed orings and air pump by now?
@@BrevTech , Just the O-rings in 2021 when I pulled the steam boiler out to access the thermistor on the bottom of it. What a pickle that was! Thanks to lots of photos pulling it apart, I was able to put it back together with no spare parts. Lol
Did you ever descale the machine in the 10 years you have it?
@@richardharris5819 it’s likely ready for new orings again. Did you test your probes yet? I’d be interested to know the AD reading in those
@BrevTech Not yet... currently out of town on business. Probably wouldn't hurt to order new probably as backupalong with a new airpump... I'm having flashbacks of last time when it went out, and the Mrs. was quite upset.😅😅😅 is that something you sell them on ebay or?