Gortash is living one of the best revenge fantasies a child of neglectful/abusive parents can have. Good for him. He is just such a filthy disgusting racoon man and for that I love him. I just wished he was an artificer, there are not enough evil artificers in Faerun.
@@Snoop_was_here I don't know if there's reliable way to see that, NPCs don't have their classes in the info that you can see directly in game. So it's up to speculation for now, I guess.
i always assumed him being described as a needy child meant he actually wasnt actually needy, just a child with normal needs and his parents werent prepared for how much a child needs
The most tragic thing about Gortash imo is how he ended. No matter what you as the player do, Gortash will die in the end (either because of you or the Netherbrain). And the moment he dies, Bane takes his soul and tortures him for what will likely be an eternity. So basically, he spent much of his adult life trying to build up power so he could never be harmed again, only to end up being Bane's torture victim in his afterlife.
You reap what you sow, If he was willing to go through with orchestrating the Absolute plot with the intent on subjugating all of the World than he got what was coming to him, What’s tragic is that he was doomed to become what he was through circumstance in Life; I would feel bad but he just repeats the cycle of abuse that he fell into so whole heartily his Fate was of his own miscalculations.
Me and my friends headcanon his cartoonishly evil amount of gnome hatred is placed squarely on the shoulders of nubaldin, and being a cobblers son. The jokes write themselves.
9:42 I think Gortash sold Karlach for Infernal Iron to make Steel Watchers. There's an interaction between Karlach and a Steel Watcher in the Lower City, where the Watcher calls her an "Outdated model", recognising her Engine. The Watcher is in the same general location where you find Lora, the one whose child was kidnapped by Ethel. And genuinely, where would he get that much Infernal Iron anyway, if not by getting something from a deal with Zariel. Karlach's engine was probably a "prototype", and after it showed it's power in The Blood War, Zariel gave Gortash the Iron (and whatever else there might have been in the deal).
Also, if I recall correctly, some of Gortash's writings show that he believes (on some twisted level) that his plot to dominate everyone would create some kind of utopia where everyone does as they're told and there is no more conflict. Which also probably stemmed from how horribly he was treated as he grew up.
A few things about Gortash to provide some context. 1. The Gondians evented the Steel Watch, they were originally supposed to be suits to make their jobs more efficient. Gortash and Balthazar altered them into what we see in the game. 2. When you talk to Karlach's friend Fitz she said, "After you left things got dark fast...I think you were the only thing that kept him honest." He respected Karlach and even cared for her in his own way, but his ambitions were bigger. He also tells Fitz she went to Neverwinter which implies to me that he was conflicted. 3. I find it Ironic that it was Gortash who discovered how to alter the tadpoles unknowingly using Durge's ruined brain from Balthazar's notes. In a journal Balthazar remarks on his intelligence and his respect for him.
@@sweetyft Fitz is the blacksmith in the middle city who Karlach calls out to. there's a fun dialogue between them where Fitz asks if the PC is Karlach's significant other, and the results vary based on whether or not you are romancing her.
Always fun to hear your takes. Gortash should have been a much bigger presence in the game considering his links to Karlach & Durge. But, we have to work with what made it into the game. I like the idea of his adult devotion to being the tyrant as an outgrowth of his childhood trauma, and it’s a great call that his parents punishment is to publicly behave like the people he’d always wished they’d been. I can imagine Gortash trauma bonding with Durge. Both of them victims in different ways of powerful abusers (Raphael & Bhaal), both of them devoted on the surface at least to appeasing their current abusers (Bane & Bhaal) as a path to an illusion of freedom that would never become real. And then the Bhaalspawn died and was reborn, with a chance at redemption, while Gortash remained trapped in his cycle of abuse.
I really like Gortash for the reasons others dislike him - his understated, sort of background role really hides how much work and effort he put into the plot compared to the other chosen. I also like that he’s more mysterious and you need to infer a lot of things about his character and past. It makes him a little more enigmatic. Also, if we use all of the Chosen of the Dead Three and look at their alignments (neutral, chaotic, lawful) I always think lawful characters sort of have this interesting spin to them. I wish we had more Durgetash information to explore in evil routes!
Gortash is imo the best of the Chosen, he just does not have enough time to shine but if he were given as much screen time as Ketheric, I think more people would recognize how much of a banger he actually is as a villain. He's one of the greatest casualties of the aimlessness of Act 3
Plenty of the BG3 companions have tortured backstories, and depending on choices they can embrace selfish, evil solutions to their trauma (ex. ascended Astarion, DJ Shart), or they can choose other options, not be evil, and have things turn out the best that they can. IMO, Gortash's big, character defining decision that sets him down an irredeemable path is selling Karlach. It's clear Karlach trusted him and thought of him as a friend, but he sold her to be a science experiment in hell anyway. We may not know exactly what he got (my guess is tech for the infernal engine/infernal iron/or possibly just a pile of soul coins), but he seems to have really popped off in the 10 years following that. I think from a psychological standpoint, Gortash wants security more than anything (sometimes literally). Being in control of everything and everyone means he has no one to scheme against him. The power he's seeking is a means to that end, but there's a lot of other ways he could've tried to acquire that security that didn't involve behaving like the people who wronged him (parents, Raphael). By perpetuating that cycle of abuse, he feels some incredible power and finds some security in that, but he dooms himself to his own bad ending.
I feel like Gortash's parents didn't necessarily want to have kids but Gortash was either an accident or they had him out of a sense of obligation. They weren't particularly prepared or interested with caring for what a kid actually needs so him being a normal kid was "needy". Maybe he was kinda annoying as a kid but not unusually so
Gortash often justifies his actions as something in service of what he believes to be the greater good, but I think that pain he suffered is what caused him to be that way in the first place. A pretty common coping mechanism for people who go through traumatic experiences is to believe that those painful events happened for a reason, and I think that is the case for Gortash; He was trying to use everything he learned to gain power in order to give meaning to the pain he went through. If this is the reason Gortash is the way he is, it explains why he feels no remorse in selling Karlach, since that also made her stronger; though of course, he would still be a hypocrite for believing that and still hating his parents for doing the same thing he did.
So on the "needy child" bit. I feel like this description has absolutely nothing to do with Gortash himself and is more a reflection of his parents (specifically, his mother). His mother sounds like an old school neglectful mother who didnt think through what raising a small child actually entails. Could baby Enver have been neurodivergent or disabled? Sure. But the word "needy" reminds me of some moms ive heard growing up who call their child that when their children ask them to play with them, want to do anything but go down for a nap, or get hungry: all basic kid things. And basic parental responsibilities, on top of that. I think his parents were just negligent. The fact that his parents sold him kinda cements that for me. What kind of parent sells their kid for their own adult fuck ups? People who never cared about their kid to begin with.
Gortash clearly should have been the main protagonist's most important adversary, whether as Dark Urge or Tav. Even though, in terms of arc closing, Orin works better as the final boss for Durge, the connection that they and Gortash had (and still have in a way of speaking) is crucial for the Durge to choose who they ultimately wants to be. It's very sad that the final confrontation against Gortash is much less satisfying, tho. I don't know, maybe Larian really ran out of time to handle things more appropriately? Bg3 is a huge game for sure and if it weren't for the need to meet deadlines, it would have been even bigger and better than it already is.
I suspect the final confrontation with him was originally planned to be much grander. It's likely we were originally supposed to fight him somewhere in the Upper City, but this changed when the Upper City was mostly cut due to time constraints.
@@fortheloveofexy I would give anything to have seen the stories that Larian wove for the High City. We lost a lot, a lot indeed in these cuts that the game suffered.
Wait. Gortash uses finger splints? ONE OF US ONE OF US, EDS ZEBRAS WERE YOU AT! This really shouldn't have made me as happy as it did, but hey it may be the only representation we ever get :¨)
only a little into the video but "our favorite devil that we know" was so funny to me for some reason like yep that's his biggest accomplishment, we know him.
I remember reading someone headcannoning that the whole plot was also a way to get back at Raphael. His aesthetics, becoming the ‘ArchDuke’, and changing everyone into a /soulless/ being was very intriguing. I will need to find it again.
EDS is a brutal disease. As someone who suffers from it's cousin, Marfan Syndrome, I could sympathize. Doesn't make him any less of a creepy douche though. To paraphrase Chris Rock I'm not saying he should've done it... but I understand.
Yeah, I would say Gortash’s parents were definitely assholes, I just ran into them in the game and in the same part that they say he’s needy they also say that he’s always been a monster which is definitely the biggest red flag for me since it doesn’t sound like they really cared about him or loved him at all as a child
Seconded! The more I'm learning about Drow culture the more their bond and where they are is amazing. A brother-sister pair that close is so rare with how males are treated, and they seem fairly happy and secure where they are, at least for Drow, and I wish the game let us do more for them just to be nice.
Ever since I found out about Gortash and the Dark Urge I wanna go back and redo my DU run since I want to learn more into that and also cuz I kinda speed through lots of the game
Came here after beating Gortash in my HM run, reading the lore notes in his area and realizing I never really paid much attention to the details--great video. Couple things come to mind: 1. The terrorism subplot with the exploding toys ultimately leads back to Bane and is exactly the kind of "cartoonishly evil" thing a power hungry cult in a video game would do--spread chaos to try and get their man (Gortash) put in power. I'm not sure why target the refugees--maybe because security in Rivington is nowhere near as good as it is inside the city itself, and there's less chance of someone uncovering the plot and more plausible deniability. 2. "I'm going to become so powerful nobody will be able to hurt me again" might be a sympathetic reading of Gortash's storyline. Obviously when you throw Bane and all the rest in there it's not enough to get him out of villain status. But it's something a lot of people can relate to, even those who haven't experienced abuse or neglect as kids. If you've ever wanted "fuck you money" because of a terrible job situation you've felt a tiny bit of it. Before I watched this I sorta thought of him as your typical mustache twirling villain and was bewildered by some of the clues pointing in another direction like "detect thoughts" showing his power sharing proposal was an honest one. It doesn't help that he looks the part and Jason Isaacs's past villain roles often haven't exactly been subtle ones (Col Tavington, Malfoy, Dracula). Knowing more I see there's an element of self preservation or having the freedom to define where your boundaries are, or as you say never be a victim again. Obviously he's taken those reasonable motivations and turned it to unreasonable ends but the character is more complex than he first appears for sure.
The exploding toys is another thing done in the name of the Absolute as a way to scare people into giving him power, just like all of the bhaalist murders.
Thanks for the analysis ❤ by the way the reward Gortash got in exchange for Karlach might be infernal iron which Gortash used to create his steel watcher. It’s just a theory but a hint that might indicate this is at the end of wrym’s crossing, there is some steel watchers and if Karlach is in your party, they will recognize her as one of their own but as an “outdated model” and we know that Karlach’ s heart requires infernal iron to work. (Sorry if my way to explain myself is not great english is not my first language 😅)
Gortash is my favourite villain in the game, he makes such a good first impression, when I got to the end of act 2 I felt "finally some compelling and excitingly hateable villains!" (Ketheric also has a good introduction but he does not have the same stage prescence gortash has when he isn't pulling an axe out of his neck) and every scene with him until the confrontation feels like whilst he may not have as much physical power, he ahs so much control over the city and everything everywhere he goes that it feels as if he has al the cards in hand, the city feels hostile to be near every time you see a steel watcher. As opposed to orin who while having tragic layers buried deep, her initial impression is a very tropey type of character that I'm kinda tired of so i just never have the same interest in her.
Man, it took me 200 hours to finish the game. I thought I had found everything there was to find, and now it turns out I missed sooo much Gortash lore. I didn't even know you could talk to his parents. I thought Gortash was just a surprisingly easy to beat villain who I found confusingly and shamefully attractive.
Really love your vid essays on BG3! Could you do one about tadpoles too? There hasn't been any discussion on how these things in everyone's head creates a form of intimacy because every character can let you in or vice versa. It makes one wonder if the characters would miss that connection after the adventure is over.
Gortash is my least favorite Big Bad out of the Chosen of the Dead Three. I know it's because I love Karlach and hate what he did to her and I'm projecting some past trauma onto him. That said, he is also a fascist and I do NOT use that term lightly!
From what I've read, heard, and seen of the guy I think he just ultimately wanted security. He had enough of being used and wanted power so that he couldn't be hurt again. It's implied in dialogue with Karlach's old friend Fitz that she "kept him honest", because as she put it "after you left, it got real dark." There was mutual respect there, but my best guess is that Gortash's goals and ambitions superceded any friendship or respect he had for Karlach. Zariel probably gave him what he needed for his mechanical army. He also seemed to genuinely believe that if he was able to control the Absolute, then it would lead to a peaceful society where conflict was nonexistent and crime would be a nonissue. A little more than a bit tyrannical, but at least his intentions are more noble than Orin or Ketheric's. His methods and end goal are just as bad though.
Spoilers: I don't see cartoonish evil from Gortash. I see the methodical, sometimes maniacal plans within plans that some sociopaths display. Sure they can be sincere - in the moment. They'll partner with you over something as long as you are useful to their ultimate goals but the moment you can't be used you will be discarded. People are either tools or hurdles or to them. See all the in-game notes to self and others Gortash has of his plans to have so and so kidnapped, tortured, blackmailed, straight up murdered, or intimidated to further his aims. I'm not just speaking of the gnomes, though that is bad enough, but many of his notes also speak of his methods to manipulate or coerce support from the dukes. He has the nobles murdered after his coronation because he no longer needs them. He creates the Steelwatch because tadpolling (sp?) innocent people and using their brains to puppet golems make better, easier to control tools than the mechanized suits the Gondians originally created. This isn't cartoonish, this is the sort of extreme evil you get from a power hungry person that has no concept of empathy or that other people have any self whatsoever. The whole refugee aspect smacks of current politics and rising fascism where you give people an "other" to fear, and then make them afraid the "other" is going to take limited resources away from their own self interests and then convince them to give up autonomy for "security." But what they really need is security from him and his plans.
He seems rather pitiful. On a completely unrelated note, I just found out my favorite Disney Movie 'Black Hole' is in public domain. Do with that what you will.
I really want to make a Durge video! I've just been waiting on patch 7 to drop, so I can incorporate the new endings, and any other changes that may be made to the Dark Urge route.
To me hes just pushover who tried to survive and succeeded for most part. Untill the bg3 took place.... Allthough i think he overestimates himself a lot and he was destined for downfall no matter what
Blaming his (clearly unpleasant) parents, is no excuse for Gortash. Many of us have unpleasant family backgrounds, but don't turn out to be monsters. Gortash is just a nasty, devious, selfish, manipulator. Very, very little to redeem him.
@@PocketLeaves That and none of us were sold to a literal devil in Hell. Not everyone is a Karlach, and Karlach at least had loving parents to provide a better moral foundation before she was taken to Hell.
I am curious how many aspects of someone's life can be manufactured before they truly lose any sense of agency. Raised by a Literal Devil to worship The God Of Tyrants seems like a pretty quick way to grow up into a cruel, scheming, charismatic bastard. Could Karlach Alone turn a soul like that towards redemption?
Gortash is living one of the best revenge fantasies a child of neglectful/abusive parents can have. Good for him.
He is just such a filthy disgusting racoon man and for that I love him. I just wished he was an artificer, there are not enough evil artificers in Faerun.
They really should have added that class
he kinda is though! there's just no playable artificer class in bg3, but I do believe that he at least is supposed to be one in terms of concept.
@@rvsbhrtwhat is Gortash listed as class wise?
@@Snoop_was_here I don't know if there's reliable way to see that, NPCs don't have their classes in the info that you can see directly in game. So it's up to speculation for now, I guess.
i always assumed him being described as a needy child meant he actually wasnt actually needy, just a child with normal needs and his parents werent prepared for how much a child needs
Yea I agree that he probably was just a normal kid. Calling a child needy for having the most basic needs is something abusive parents do.
I remember hearing that line I shouted he was a child
The most tragic thing about Gortash imo is how he ended. No matter what you as the player do, Gortash will die in the end (either because of you or the Netherbrain). And the moment he dies, Bane takes his soul and tortures him for what will likely be an eternity. So basically, he spent much of his adult life trying to build up power so he could never be harmed again, only to end up being Bane's torture victim in his afterlife.
You reap what you sow, If he was willing to go through with orchestrating the Absolute plot with the intent on subjugating all of the World than he got what was coming to him, What’s tragic is that he was doomed to become what he was through circumstance in Life; I would feel bad but he just repeats the cycle of abuse that he fell into so whole heartily his Fate was of his own miscalculations.
Me and my friends headcanon his cartoonishly evil amount of gnome hatred is placed squarely on the shoulders of nubaldin, and being a cobblers son. The jokes write themselves.
Larian writers and animators were so nuanced in their character developments that I’m inclined to believe you guys got it right on that one.
as a gnome tav who was romancing Karlach I feel all sorts of ways
9:42 I think Gortash sold Karlach for Infernal Iron to make Steel Watchers. There's an interaction between Karlach and a Steel Watcher in the Lower City, where the Watcher calls her an "Outdated model", recognising her Engine. The Watcher is in the same general location where you find Lora, the one whose child was kidnapped by Ethel.
And genuinely, where would he get that much Infernal Iron anyway, if not by getting something from a deal with Zariel. Karlach's engine was probably a "prototype", and after it showed it's power in The Blood War, Zariel gave Gortash the Iron (and whatever else there might have been in the deal).
Ooh, I totally missed that! That makes sense
Great explanation. Totally probable
Also, if I recall correctly, some of Gortash's writings show that he believes (on some twisted level) that his plot to dominate everyone would create some kind of utopia where everyone does as they're told and there is no more conflict. Which also probably stemmed from how horribly he was treated as he grew up.
If it wasn’t for karlach I’d be his biggest fan
A few things about Gortash to provide some context.
1. The Gondians evented the Steel Watch, they were originally supposed to be suits to make their jobs more efficient. Gortash and Balthazar altered them into what we see in the game.
2. When you talk to Karlach's friend Fitz she said, "After you left things got dark fast...I think you were the only thing that kept him honest." He respected Karlach and even cared for her in his own way, but his ambitions were bigger. He also tells Fitz she went to Neverwinter which implies to me that he was conflicted.
3. I find it Ironic that it was Gortash who discovered how to alter the tadpoles unknowingly using Durge's ruined brain from Balthazar's notes. In a journal Balthazar remarks on his intelligence and his respect for him.
Thank you for the fantastic insight. I feel dumb to ask but who is Fitz (where do we meet that NPC)?
@@sweetyft Fitz is the blacksmith in the middle city who Karlach calls out to.
there's a fun dialogue between them where Fitz asks if the PC is Karlach's significant other, and the results vary based on whether or not you are romancing her.
Always fun to hear your takes. Gortash should have been a much bigger presence in the game considering his links to Karlach & Durge. But, we have to work with what made it into the game. I like the idea of his adult devotion to being the tyrant as an outgrowth of his childhood trauma, and it’s a great call that his parents punishment is to publicly behave like the people he’d always wished they’d been. I can imagine Gortash trauma bonding with Durge. Both of them victims in different ways of powerful abusers (Raphael & Bhaal), both of them devoted on the surface at least to appeasing their current abusers (Bane & Bhaal) as a path to an illusion of freedom that would never become real.
And then the Bhaalspawn died and was reborn, with a chance at redemption, while Gortash remained trapped in his cycle of abuse.
I really like Gortash for the reasons others dislike him - his understated, sort of background role really hides how much work and effort he put into the plot compared to the other chosen. I also like that he’s more mysterious and you need to infer a lot of things about his character and past. It makes him a little more enigmatic. Also, if we use all of the Chosen of the Dead Three and look at their alignments (neutral, chaotic, lawful) I always think lawful characters sort of have this interesting spin to them. I wish we had more Durgetash information to explore in evil routes!
Gortash is imo the best of the Chosen, he just does not have enough time to shine but if he were given as much screen time as Ketheric, I think more people would recognize how much of a banger he actually is as a villain. He's one of the greatest casualties of the aimlessness of Act 3
Plenty of the BG3 companions have tortured backstories, and depending on choices they can embrace selfish, evil solutions to their trauma (ex. ascended Astarion, DJ Shart), or they can choose other options, not be evil, and have things turn out the best that they can.
IMO, Gortash's big, character defining decision that sets him down an irredeemable path is selling Karlach. It's clear Karlach trusted him and thought of him as a friend, but he sold her to be a science experiment in hell anyway. We may not know exactly what he got (my guess is tech for the infernal engine/infernal iron/or possibly just a pile of soul coins), but he seems to have really popped off in the 10 years following that.
I think from a psychological standpoint, Gortash wants security more than anything (sometimes literally). Being in control of everything and everyone means he has no one to scheme against him. The power he's seeking is a means to that end, but there's a lot of other ways he could've tried to acquire that security that didn't involve behaving like the people who wronged him (parents, Raphael). By perpetuating that cycle of abuse, he feels some incredible power and finds some security in that, but he dooms himself to his own bad ending.
Yo DJ Shart is crazy work. I'm using that later for something
@@zacharybosley1935 "ignis" from Firebolt would go hard as a base drop. She doesn't even need a fog machine
I feel like Gortash's parents didn't necessarily want to have kids but Gortash was either an accident or they had him out of a sense of obligation. They weren't particularly prepared or interested with caring for what a kid actually needs so him being a normal kid was "needy". Maybe he was kinda annoying as a kid but not unusually so
Gortash often justifies his actions as something in service of what he believes to be the greater good, but I think that pain he suffered is what caused him to be that way in the first place.
A pretty common coping mechanism for people who go through traumatic experiences is to believe that those painful events happened for a reason, and I think that is the case for Gortash; He was trying to use everything he learned to gain power in order to give meaning to the pain he went through.
If this is the reason Gortash is the way he is, it explains why he feels no remorse in selling Karlach, since that also made her stronger; though of course, he would still be a hypocrite for believing that and still hating his parents for doing the same thing he did.
So on the "needy child" bit. I feel like this description has absolutely nothing to do with Gortash himself and is more a reflection of his parents (specifically, his mother).
His mother sounds like an old school neglectful mother who didnt think through what raising a small child actually entails.
Could baby Enver have been neurodivergent or disabled? Sure. But the word "needy" reminds me of some moms ive heard growing up who call their child that when their children ask them to play with them, want to do anything but go down for a nap, or get hungry: all basic kid things. And basic parental responsibilities, on top of that.
I think his parents were just negligent. The fact that his parents sold him kinda cements that for me. What kind of parent sells their kid for their own adult fuck ups? People who never cared about their kid to begin with.
BABE WAKE UP POCKET LEAVES UPLOADED ANOTHER BG3 CHARACTER ANALYSIS VIDEO!!
As someone who lives with hEDS, the chronic pain is just so relatable, Durge is my favorite way to play BG3. I love my trash man so much.
Watching this during my open heart surgery
Welcome to the Zipper club, friend!
I love Enver Gortash he is so babygurl(canon)
It is canon
Gortash clearly should have been the main protagonist's most important adversary, whether as Dark Urge or Tav. Even though, in terms of arc closing, Orin works better as the final boss for Durge, the connection that they and Gortash had (and still have in a way of speaking) is crucial for the Durge to choose who they ultimately wants to be. It's very sad that the final confrontation against Gortash is much less satisfying, tho. I don't know, maybe Larian really ran out of time to handle things more appropriately? Bg3 is a huge game for sure and if it weren't for the need to meet deadlines, it would have been even bigger and better than it already is.
I suspect the final confrontation with him was originally planned to be much grander. It's likely we were originally supposed to fight him somewhere in the Upper City, but this changed when the Upper City was mostly cut due to time constraints.
@@fortheloveofexy I would give anything to have seen the stories that Larian wove for the High City. We lost a lot, a lot indeed in these cuts that the game suffered.
Wait. Gortash uses finger splints? ONE OF US ONE OF US, EDS ZEBRAS WERE YOU AT!
This really shouldn't have made me as happy as it did, but hey it may be the only representation we ever get :¨)
Nah I was the same, from my first playthrough I was like "finger splints, cane...the way he walks...bro has hEDS..."
only a little into the video but "our favorite devil that we know" was so funny to me for some reason like yep that's his biggest accomplishment, we know him.
why is Raphael going around buying children. what is this, one direction?
Waiting for the Unpacking Raphael video
Yes
Harleep already did that...this pretty girl only need to upload it as shorts
I remember reading someone headcannoning that the whole plot was also a way to get back at Raphael.
His aesthetics, becoming the ‘ArchDuke’, and changing everyone into a /soulless/ being was very intriguing. I will need to find it again.
EDS is a brutal disease. As someone who suffers from it's cousin, Marfan Syndrome, I could sympathize. Doesn't make him any less of a creepy douche though. To paraphrase Chris Rock I'm not saying he should've done it... but I understand.
Gortash reminds me of Dick Dastardly. Another mustache twirling villain.
Yeah, I would say Gortash’s parents were definitely assholes, I just ran into them in the game and in the same part that they say he’s needy they also say that he’s always been a monster which is definitely the biggest red flag for me since it doesn’t sound like they really cared about him or loved him at all as a child
Now we need a video on the drow twins
Seconded! The more I'm learning about Drow culture the more their bond and where they are is amazing. A brother-sister pair that close is so rare with how males are treated, and they seem fairly happy and secure where they are, at least for Drow, and I wish the game let us do more for them just to be nice.
Sat for daddy tash
Ever since I found out about Gortash and the Dark Urge I wanna go back and redo my DU run since I want to learn more into that and also cuz I kinda speed through lots of the game
Came here after beating Gortash in my HM run, reading the lore notes in his area and realizing I never really paid much attention to the details--great video. Couple things come to mind:
1. The terrorism subplot with the exploding toys ultimately leads back to Bane and is exactly the kind of "cartoonishly evil" thing a power hungry cult in a video game would do--spread chaos to try and get their man (Gortash) put in power. I'm not sure why target the refugees--maybe because security in Rivington is nowhere near as good as it is inside the city itself, and there's less chance of someone uncovering the plot and more plausible deniability.
2. "I'm going to become so powerful nobody will be able to hurt me again" might be a sympathetic reading of Gortash's storyline. Obviously when you throw Bane and all the rest in there it's not enough to get him out of villain status. But it's something a lot of people can relate to, even those who haven't experienced abuse or neglect as kids. If you've ever wanted "fuck you money" because of a terrible job situation you've felt a tiny bit of it.
Before I watched this I sorta thought of him as your typical mustache twirling villain and was bewildered by some of the clues pointing in another direction like "detect thoughts" showing his power sharing proposal was an honest one. It doesn't help that he looks the part and Jason Isaacs's past villain roles often haven't exactly been subtle ones (Col Tavington, Malfoy, Dracula). Knowing more I see there's an element of self preservation or having the freedom to define where your boundaries are, or as you say never be a victim again. Obviously he's taken those reasonable motivations and turned it to unreasonable ends but the character is more complex than he first appears for sure.
The exploding toys is another thing done in the name of the Absolute as a way to scare people into giving him power, just like all of the bhaalist murders.
BEST SUNDAY EVER. NEW POCKET LEAVES VIDEO LET’S GOOOOOO!!!! 😁
LFG!!!!1
I’ve learned never to trust a guy named Enver. Enver Pasha, Enver Hoxha, Enver Gortash. All monsters.
Thanks for the analysis ❤ by the way the reward Gortash got in exchange for Karlach might be infernal iron which Gortash used to create his steel watcher. It’s just a theory but a hint that might indicate this is at the end of wrym’s crossing, there is some steel watchers and if Karlach is in your party, they will recognize her as one of their own but as an “outdated model” and we know that Karlach’ s heart requires infernal iron to work.
(Sorry if my way to explain myself is not great english is not my first language 😅)
Gortash is my favourite villain in the game, he makes such a good first impression, when I got to the end of act 2 I felt "finally some compelling and excitingly hateable villains!" (Ketheric also has a good introduction but he does not have the same stage prescence gortash has when he isn't pulling an axe out of his neck) and every scene with him until the confrontation feels like whilst he may not have as much physical power, he ahs so much control over the city and everything everywhere he goes that it feels as if he has al the cards in hand, the city feels hostile to be near every time you see a steel watcher. As opposed to orin who while having tragic layers buried deep, her initial impression is a very tropey type of character that I'm kinda tired of so i just never have the same interest in her.
You're so right about the city feeling hostile! The Steel Watch were SO SCARY on my first couple of runs.
the dynamic between gortash and raphael would be so tasty if only they gave us more of it 🥲
Man, it took me 200 hours to finish the game. I thought I had found everything there was to find, and now it turns out I missed sooo much Gortash lore. I didn't even know you could talk to his parents. I thought Gortash was just a surprisingly easy to beat villain who I found confusingly and shamefully attractive.
Really love your vid essays on BG3! Could you do one about tadpoles too? There hasn't been any discussion on how these things in everyone's head creates a form of intimacy because every character can let you in or vice versa. It makes one wonder if the characters would miss that connection after the adventure is over.
Gortash is my least favorite Big Bad out of the Chosen of the Dead Three. I know it's because I love Karlach and hate what he did to her and I'm projecting some past trauma onto him. That said, he is also a fascist and I do NOT use that term lightly!
Of course he's a fascist, he serves Bane.
oh yeah, The Tyrant lives up to his name
Whats wrong with being a fascist
He’s a fascist?! What did he do?
From what I've read, heard, and seen of the guy I think he just ultimately wanted security. He had enough of being used and wanted power so that he couldn't be hurt again. It's implied in dialogue with Karlach's old friend Fitz that she "kept him honest", because as she put it "after you left, it got real dark." There was mutual respect there, but my best guess is that Gortash's goals and ambitions superceded any friendship or respect he had for Karlach. Zariel probably gave him what he needed for his mechanical army. He also seemed to genuinely believe that if he was able to control the Absolute, then it would lead to a peaceful society where conflict was nonexistent and crime would be a nonissue. A little more than a bit tyrannical, but at least his intentions are more noble than Orin or Ketheric's. His methods and end goal are just as bad though.
Spoilers: I don't see cartoonish evil from Gortash. I see the methodical, sometimes maniacal plans within plans that some sociopaths display. Sure they can be sincere - in the moment. They'll partner with you over something as long as you are useful to their ultimate goals but the moment you can't be used you will be discarded. People are either tools or hurdles or to them. See all the in-game notes to self and others Gortash has of his plans to have so and so kidnapped, tortured, blackmailed, straight up murdered, or intimidated to further his aims. I'm not just speaking of the gnomes, though that is bad enough, but many of his notes also speak of his methods to manipulate or coerce support from the dukes. He has the nobles murdered after his coronation because he no longer needs them. He creates the Steelwatch because tadpolling (sp?) innocent people and using their brains to puppet golems make better, easier to control tools than the mechanized suits the Gondians originally created. This isn't cartoonish, this is the sort of extreme evil you get from a power hungry person that has no concept of empathy or that other people have any self whatsoever. The whole refugee aspect smacks of current politics and rising fascism where you give people an "other" to fear, and then make them afraid the "other" is going to take limited resources away from their own self interests and then convince them to give up autonomy for "security." But what they really need is security from him and his plans.
Thank you for the fun videos! I would absolutely love it if you made a unpacking Raphael video. Any plans to do so in the future?
Yesss thank u for this gift🙏
GUIN MENTIONED THAT’S MY OOMF
I love gortash what are you talking about?He’s hard to love bah i want to marry him
He seems rather pitiful. On a completely unrelated note, I just found out my favorite Disney Movie 'Black Hole' is in public domain. Do with that what you will.
Have you ever thought about doing any of these for other fantasy role playing games, like Dragon Age?
I'm not sure. I've honestly not even played Dragon Age yet.
@@PocketLeavesplease do Cullen Alistair Solas
@@PocketLeavesyou're missing out its alot of fun
I will say one thing the dark urge was not as good as everyone says
What do you mean by that? Not as good at their job as everyone says? Because I can see that being true!
He is just a silly guy 😊
Im still wondering what exactly the brain did to kill Gortash
My guess is that it told the tadpole within his brain to kill itself.
He didnt tank it
@@austinkersey2445 he doesn't have a tadpole
How about a Dark Urge deep dive? I know Durge is .... controversial.
I really want to make a Durge video! I've just been waiting on patch 7 to drop, so I can incorporate the new endings, and any other changes that may be made to the Dark Urge route.
To me hes just pushover who tried to survive and succeeded for most part.
Untill the bg3 took place....
Allthough i think he overestimates himself a lot and he was destined for downfall no matter what
Blaming his (clearly unpleasant) parents, is no excuse for Gortash. Many of us have unpleasant family backgrounds, but don't turn out to be monsters.
Gortash is just a nasty, devious, selfish, manipulator. Very, very little to redeem him.
No one said it was an excuse. Just an explanation. I'm not trying to redeem him
@@PocketLeaves That and none of us were sold to a literal devil in Hell. Not everyone is a Karlach, and Karlach at least had loving parents to provide a better moral foundation before she was taken to Hell.
I am curious how many aspects of someone's life can be manufactured before they truly lose any sense of agency.
Raised by a Literal Devil to worship The God Of Tyrants seems like a pretty quick way to grow up into a cruel, scheming, charismatic bastard. Could Karlach Alone turn a soul like that towards redemption?
He's sexy so its ok