Unpacking Durge…. Hey, instead of playing as (possibly) normal character, you instead get to play as a super edgy bhaalspawn who is deep down a murderhobo that for some reason your companions had you become their leader…even though you randomly killed a poor innocent tiefling for no reason. The end.
@@CeaselessEnemy maybe, but I just don’t get why everyone treats Durge like the greatest thing of all time. Maybe the upcoming video will help shed some light on it. 🤷🏻♂️ And yes, I did do an evil Durge playthrough. It just left a sour taste in my mouth. Especially how tepidly companions react to extreme acts of psychopathy, unrealistic to their characters, imo.
@@betweenthelakescinema7027 I'm not trying to be rude, but I didn't really ask what kind of playthrough you did. That said, I can kinda understand. Evil Durge isn't exactly for me either- you miss out on so much story, being the BG3 equivalent of a murder-hobo. I find resist-durge a lot more compelling, personally. My overall point was that your assessment of Durge as a whole concept just kinda oversimplifies the story. Is it violent and edgy? Yeah, but that doesn't make it poorly done. I think the character being edgy and violent is the point. Bhaal is inherently pathetic, as are his offspring- the only goal being omnicide, with the self-justification that life is pain. I view Bhaal as like a nihilistic influender, who views death as everyone's only purpose. That's also what makes Durge interesting to most people, specifically in the resist path- this character constantly struggles to control themselves and an urge that has been forced upon them by a God with a 3rd grade understanding of nihilism. If they don't do as Bhaal wants, they have a harder time with this self-control, because the fact they want to live and let live is the complete antithesis to the reason they exist. There are implications that have given into this urge quite often, but there are also small dialogue moments that imply there were bare hints of someone who wanted more. It kinda parallels Astarion in a way- This Dark Urge character is rewarded for cruelty, and has a harder time doing the right thing- which makes it very important when they DO the right thing, regardless of their purpose.
An important part of Cazador is also his appearance. Astarion hypes him up to be this scary bogeyman the entire game, and then you meet the guy and he is just this depressed loser. I keep seeing people complain about his appearance, that he should look more intimidating, but I love his portrayal because it is so realistic. Those like Cazador are just normal people with jobs and families. Only certain unlucky ones will ever see the monster that lurks inside. And Astarion did and now its all he can see. Only at the very end when he stabs him to death, he can finally see Cazador for what he really was. I do believe that Cazador thinks he is a merciful master, because Velioth has done worse to him. Velioth impaled him for 11 years, so he was being nice by entombing Astarion for "just" 1 year. But I don't actually think he is being better than Velioth, his abuse is just different. It does the same damage, no matter if the scars are physical or mental. The inclusion of Amanita Szarr in my interpretation serves to show that not all vampires are inherently evil (unlike most DnD lore). Because this is first and foremost a story about the cycle of abuse and 'vampire, therefore evil' goes against that theme. If turning into a vampire (perhaps even) against your will, leaves you with no other option than become an abuser, there is nothing to take away from the story.
I think that's probably one of the hardest things to admit to oneself as a victim of abuse (depending on the person's experience, at least). That your abuser wasn't just a scary evil and special monster - that they were also just some person. I guess that also echoes how abuse is easily overlooked because anyone can be abused, anyone can be an abuser, and often times abusers have been victims of abuse themselves at one point.
I was not prepared for Cazador to be such a weenie. He's at least one of the harder boss fights and managed to cause a wipe and a reload on tactician so he at least has that going for him.
I feel like Amanita’s inclusion fits a similar role as Omelum’s in the story, showing the player that there are people who were transformed into these horrible monsters and yet retained their nature, refused to become evil, and decided to help those in similar situations (curiously both by spreading knowledge). Granted, Amanita’s role is a lot smaller but I feel like it should, as Cazador’s role is also a lot smaller and more focused than the Absolute’s and the Dead Three. (Also, in D&D they are moving away from that “certain races are certain alinements”, orcs and other monstrous player races were changed from exclusively evil canonically, so ignoring that vampire rule has precedent in the books)
Also his voice. I've seen complaints about his "old man" voice, but Ketheric also has an "old man" voice and no one is mad about that. But you meet Cazador, and he sounds *feeble*. He sounds harmless. If you'd met him first, are you SURE you'd believe Astarion?
my head cannon is that godey is the friend cazador reached out to, and when cazador free'd himself, he went back and raised that friend's bones to have him again
What I find fascinating is the worldview instilled by this line of vampirism. You can see it with Velioth, Cazador, and Astarion before he even makes the decision to ascend or not, saying that the only thing Cazador did wrong was that he did it to him. In their worldview, there is no good or bad, only victims and those in power. It's such an alien way for most people to view the world, but each spawn spends decades or even centuries having this idea impressed upon them. When you think about the outrageous lengths that need to be taken for someone to view the world in such a twisted way, the more understanding it is that so few people break free of that cycle. Astarion is the only companion who requires you to pass a persuasion check to get his good ending. It just goes to show that by becoming a good person, Astarion isn't just defying fate, he is shattering it.
The story of Amanita Szarr is so tragic. Cazador turned her, and gave her the option to either drink humanoid blood or starve. First it was blood that had already been drained. And then he locked her in the attic with a bound captive. He didn't directly command her to kill the captive, but he forbade her from any other options. The guilt she must have felt after caving to her hunger is just heartbreaking. Knowing she was resisting for gods know how long, and then finally relented after her hunger took over. What was going through the captive's mind, I wonder? Did they feel for her? Or did their fear and desperation and anger leave no room for any compassion at all? Did they forgive her? Or did they curse her name? The world may never know.
I might make a short fanfiction about this now that I think about it. There's a D&D character that I made a few years ago that would be absolutely perfect.
I always thought that Cazador favored torturing Astarian because he reminds Cazador the most of himself and we always hate what we see of ourselves in others.
That's a good point!! I've seen some speculate that Vellioth may have looked like Astarion, but I like the idea of seeing himself in Astarion, and that kind of supports the theme of Astarion having the choice of kind of turning into Cazador or doing better.
I remember thinking he was gonna be a huge menace from what Astarion told me and then I burst out laughing when we meet, seeing him look and sound like a wood elf from oblivion
I have this theory that Cazador didn't really know Astarion at all and that his large staff was definitely compensating for something. I seriously think that Cazador hired the Gur to kill Astarion back before our favorite pale elf was turned due to some political stuff. I think that the spawn were definitely used sexually and that Astarion was also used for killing Cazador's political opponents and other enemies. It's why I made Astarion an assassin.
I appreciate the move away from "entire species are inherently evil," but there's so much to be explored with monsters who *become*. Because the only real way to magically turn evil is to lose free will, and if the monster has no free will, how much responsibility do they really bear for their evil actions? You can work to stop them, prevent them from continuing to harm people, you can hate them if they hurt you personally, but can you actually blame them? And what is "morality," anyway? What if the monster magically loses all interest in doing the right thing but also has no motivation to harm others? Did Amanita choose to work against Cazador because she somehow managed to remain "good," or to spite him for what he did to her? And what does that change really look like? For narrative expediency, it's usually shown as a flipped switch, turning into a moustache-twirling villain overnight, but in reality, so much of our behavior is based in habit. If you're used to acting in a certain way, chances are good you'd continue to do so for a while simply because that's just... you. It would take a while for gradual changes to accumulate enough that you're completely, unambiguously evil. I wonder how long Cazador had been a vampire by the time he turned Astarion. Astarion was turned in 1268, so Cazador must already have been a full vampire at that time, even though he didn't succeed Vellioth as Vampire Lord until 1276. Perhaps he did start out kinder, back when he was already a full vampire but still under someone else's thumb, though it had clearly all been ground away by 1268. There's still a lot of nuance to be had within a black-and-white framework of "vampires bad." Yeah, I hate Cazador. In a good playthrough, there's really no choice but to take him out, and it's really satisfying. But damn, I feel sorry for the guy.
I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but in the 5e Monster Manual there’s a section of the description of (full) vampires (not spawn, importantly) called Dark Desires that states: “Whether or not a vampire retains any memories from its former life, its emotional attachments wither as once-pure feelings become twisted by undeath. Love turns into hungry obsession, while friendship becomes bitter jealousy. In place of emotion, vampires pursue physical symbols of what they crave, so that a vampire seeking love might fixate on a young beauty. A child might become an object of fascination for a vampire obsessed with youth and potential. Others surround themselves with art, books, or sinister items such as torture devices or trophies from creatures they have killed.” As such, the idea that so many of his evil actions were spurred on by the desire to have a family or “equals” itself holds a lot of weight. He definitely had a close enough connection to others so as to reach out to his friend, and that desire for connection was twisted when he became a vampire into the construction of a warped, fucked up family unit. This also feels like it plays into the idea that an ascended Astarion could be “better” than Cazador. Inevitably, he can’t, Cazador tried to be better and vampirism shaped that desire into something cruel and obsessive. It’s why astarion becomes an asshole if you allow him to ascend, and when, if you romance him, he claims ownership of you: love twisted to control and obsession. All because Astarion decided to follow in his abuser’s footsteps and complete the ritual. It’s pretty neat to see how well they seem to stick to this pretty specific bit of vampire lore and used it to tell this story. It’s also very fun to play with as a DM when constructing vampire villains imo.
Wonderfully insightful analysis. It really hammers home how amazingly well written this game is, especially Astarion's questline. I know the AA fangirlies soured your love of Astarion for a while, so I appreciate you dealing with that to make this excellent video.
Honestly, I wish more people dug deeper into Cazador. It makes Astarion's storyline so much better because it's basically a cycle of abuse. Cazador was once abused and became the abuser. Astarion, depending on your choices, either ends the cycle or continues it. It's brilliant!
I have a headcanon that Cazador suffered from sexual/intimacy issues and did not have sex at all. Forcing the spawn to use their bodies and have sex with their victims was not intended as a humiliation ritual, but it was his way of vicariously experiencing sexual passion. Perhaps he even craved love and so he fixated on the ACT of love, since vampires obsess over material symbols for the things they want. He may have even thought the spawn were blessed that they got to spend their lifespans bedding young beauties, and thought they were ingrates for disliking it.
I’m reading a fanfic right now called Perfect Slaughter that just concluded recently. It explores a lot of the stuff you touched on in the video, and fleshes out the mechanics of both the Rite of Profane Ascension and the Rite of Perfect Slaughter. I highly recommend it, but be warned it’s not a cheery read.
Did anyone else question if the murder attempt before Cazador turned Astarion was what Astarion thinks. I know I felt it was more likely to me the entire thing was planned. Sort of an I want that one I'll try to rile up some people with a grudge and see what happens, or I want that one I'll pay those people with a grudge to try and kill him so I have leverage.
It's heavily speculated that the group of gur who attacked him was hired by Cazador. I do think of it as a Astarion had it coming moment, with his shitty actions as a magistrate catch up with him like he says, something that would have happened anyway.. But both can be true! I wish we knew more of how and why Cazador picked Astarion to be his spawn.
Love your analysis of Cazador, and honestly I always wondered if pre-turned Cazador was even remotely a good person. Hard to tell because they game doesn't give us an idea and being turned does change you both physically and mentally. I do like the idea that Cazador pre-vampire is very different from his current self, and it is why he treated his niece so cruelly. Here, his niece is holding onto her morals and rejecting the idea of drinking blood as much as she can, while he is an empty person who has completely lost any form of his identity from his past life. Oh the rage he must felt. Also FYI, the reason Jaheira is old for 150 years is because she is a half-elf, not full elf! The average lifespan of half elves are around 180 years, and since she refused to take the timeless body druid ritual to stop physical aging, she's around her late 60s in human years.
What about unpacking Gortash? He is my favorite character and there is so much to his character, especially when it interweaves so much with others! DUrge, Raphael, Karlach, and just the speculations on his motives! This is not even mentioning his parents.
This was a lovely video!!! I really hope you continue unpacking these characters, it brings a much clearer understanding of the depth of each one. (i’m Really hoping for an Unpacking Gortash and Maybe The Dark Urge!!)
Imo the fact that Cazador calls his spawn "family" and instructs them to refer to each other as siblings seems to be his own unique spin on abuse, as he was seemingly Vellioth's only spawn and thus spent all of his enslavement completely alone; that is, that particular shtick of his is his own creation and way of normalizing abuse. I think the family metaphor is especially apt because, as far as cycles of abuse go, generational relationships are one of the biggest ways trauma and abuse are perpetrated. Think of that one Tweet or whatever that's like "You were beaten as a child and turned out just fine? Clearly not, you think it's okay to beat children." If the spawn are 'siblings' then Cazador is positioning himself, probably deliberately, as a father. The in universe reason for this is unclear; does he see himself as more benevolent and lenient than Vellioth, therefore loving/fatherly to his spawn in comparison? Is it because he was an "only child" of a spawn, so having multiple spawn and calling them a family is a way for him to try and alleviate his solitude and the way he was his master's sole abuse target in some perverse way? It's not like this allegory for family is a reach considering that one line Cazador says about "what is family if not the monsters we are obliged to love?" and how he even refers to Astarion as a prodigal son. Was Cazador alluding (even subconsciously) to the fact that vampirism ran in his own family, meaning that (his) family is LITERALLY the monsters he was obliged to love? Regardless, I do think Cazador's positioning as a father figure in this story about abuse was a very targeted choice. It ties in generational trauma into the theme of cycles of violence, this sort of normalization of violence where our own abusive parents are so steeped in a culture of violence and abuse that they literally do not comprehend their own behavior as being abusive. At least in this case Cazador does see himself as a monster to some extent, but as far as his behavior and words are concerned, it seems the way he copes with it is to simply double down and insist that this abuse of his spawn is simply part of "achieving perfection" or that he is "forgiving" compared to Vellioth. In much the same way that abusive parents justify their actions as just how parents are supposed to raise children or how all of their punishments were justified by some misbehavior of their children. Sorry for the essay I just recently started obsessing with Cazador as a hyperfixation/comfort character (wild I know) and I really appreciate this video existing as proof that ppl are willing to discuss how even horrible monsters like Cazador have depth Edit: I wrote this about halfway through the video and you mentioned a lot of the same stuff lol
5:20 Jaheira is only a half elf, and while that doesn't make mom any less awesome, it does mean she is pretty old at being over 150 years old. Just a little note to explain that "oddity" ^^
5:20 just to precise Jaheira is not an elf she’s a half-elf that’s why she is just 150 years old (half-elves live approximatetly 180 years old) Very good video by the way love you ❤
A universe I think you would enjoy deep diving into would be the fallout universe. For a specific character, one of the best is Joshua Graham. With your love of good character writing you're bound to come across him at some point, but we can't expect god to do all the work...
I think whether Cazador experienced SA or not, dude knows sex sells. Sending out a bunch of young, well versed and charming spawn was easy souls. I was a teen in the twilight hype and you cant convince me he wouldnt have THRIVED getting victims in 2010 lol.
It's the nendoroid! I preordered him when he came out a few years ago, but you may still be able to find him on good smile company's website, or second hand? (fyi for second hand, shipping and all he cost about $60 new, but would be a bit cheaper if ordered directly from good smile's japanese website. Sometimes second hand figure prices are WILDLY expensive)
Hi. I snatched a dead illithid larva from a cat near the moon tower, but I can't find any information about it anywhere. Do you know anything about it?
I like to think Ascended Astarion is drunk on power right after it happens but once he gets a grip he will level out and continue healing and your Tav/Durge as his spawn now has eternity to help him. But I also see how “hurt people hurt people” especially when you hear Astarion change you from “My Love” to “My Pet” it feels very much like he stopped loving us and is right back to manipulating up into falling for his new self. Cazador clearly put value into his actual blood family seeing as we see people with Szar last names mentioned in documents and books but the spawn who aren’t actually family are viewed like mouse traps
@@Louves192 it doesn’t not necessarily but it feels too sudden of a flip for it to be more than a power trip. Also he levels out a small amount during the final party glad to see everyone only mad he wasn’t allowed to host the get together. It feels very like a addict on the road to recovery but still relapsing every so often when shit gets too hard
@@skyesmith5683 Well I guess that's one way to interpret things and I can see that it might look like that if you select very specific dialogue options. Because (according to the script and the dev notes) most of the dialogues are pretty patronizing and he is jealous of the companions who are doing better than him. He is also planning to create more spawn and take over Baldur's Gate. Repressing trauma and your own feelings is not the same as healing.
I disagree with a lot of your take, but I'm so glad you mentioned the drunk/addict comparison bc when I first experienced A-Astarion I personally thought he came off as someone suffering from mania. I mean, he's a super powerful vampire so the "symptoms" are just me imposing mental health rules on a supernatural creature, but the way AA suddenly speaks with such superiority, the way he has massive delusions of grandeur, he even seems to be incredibly high energy as he describes how every passing second feels like hours to him. Idk there's just something special to me about A-Astarion comparisons that compare his situation to that of an addict or untreated mental illness. Idk what it's like to be a vampire ascendant but I can comprehend/empathize with more mundane things like mental health/illness. Really the way Astarion's mannerisms and voice change so noticeably is fascinating to me in general
Not sure why were debating Cazador being a merciful master, the dude was literally willing to sacrifice thousands of lives which he orchestrated for hundreds of years in order to become more powerful. Maybe he views himself as such, but he's nuts if he actually believes that about himself
I mean, no one is saying he actually is merciful. That's just his perception. The only thing is he's more merciful than Vellioth, that's not to say he is ACTUALLY merciful.
I feel like that's the point. Abusers aren't often that scary for the people outside the abusers reach and control. They even knew you would think that so there was a dialogue option in the game to question Astarions fear of Cazador
I. hate. this. Character. I end him EVERY playthrough, whether I romance Astarion or not. The thing about him that sets me off the most is .... he doesn't look like an all powerful Vampire lord. He looks like evil Steve from accounting. ASTARION is way more terrifying once ascended than Cazador is UNascended. So...why didn't they make him LOOK actually terrifying? Minthara is terrifying in appearance despite being pretty. We ALL know it was possible. ALSO, his voice makes him sound like a used car salesman named Ernie.
I think they made him just some guy to mirror how irl most abusers are just some guy. Although I do wish they would have gone with is earlier design, because it looks really cool. I think the voice fits, but to me it just sounds kind of ancient (I know Cazador isn't THAT old in the grand scheme of things but it makes him feel old in a way that I think works for him)
@@PocketLeaves Oh the VA delivers the lines well. I just hate the voice. He sounds like a little old lady whose voice was slowed down to 33 RPMS on those old 1970s record players. I'm just not a fan. BTW excellent analysis, as always!
You can’t escape Unpacking the Dark Urge forever!
I know! I'm waiting for the patch 7 updates so we can include the new evil endings
Unpacking Durge….
Hey, instead of playing as (possibly) normal character, you instead get to play as a super edgy bhaalspawn who is deep down a murderhobo that for some reason your companions had you become their leader…even though you randomly killed a poor innocent tiefling for no reason.
The end.
@@betweenthelakescinema7027That's a little reductive.
@@CeaselessEnemy maybe, but I just don’t get why everyone treats Durge like the greatest thing of all time. Maybe the upcoming video will help shed some light on it. 🤷🏻♂️ And yes, I did do an evil Durge playthrough. It just left a sour taste in my mouth. Especially how tepidly companions react to extreme acts of psychopathy, unrealistic to their characters, imo.
@@betweenthelakescinema7027 I'm not trying to be rude, but I didn't really ask what kind of playthrough you did. That said, I can kinda understand. Evil Durge isn't exactly for me either- you miss out on so much story, being the BG3 equivalent of a murder-hobo. I find resist-durge a lot more compelling, personally. My overall point was that your assessment of Durge as a whole concept just kinda oversimplifies the story. Is it violent and edgy? Yeah, but that doesn't make it poorly done. I think the character being edgy and violent is the point. Bhaal is inherently pathetic, as are his offspring- the only goal being omnicide, with the self-justification that life is pain. I view Bhaal as like a nihilistic influender, who views death as everyone's only purpose. That's also what makes Durge interesting to most people, specifically in the resist path- this character constantly struggles to control themselves and an urge that has been forced upon them by a God with a 3rd grade understanding of nihilism. If they don't do as Bhaal wants, they have a harder time with this self-control, because the fact they want to live and let live is the complete antithesis to the reason they exist. There are implications that have given into this urge quite often, but there are also small dialogue moments that imply there were bare hints of someone who wanted more. It kinda parallels Astarion in a way- This Dark Urge character is rewarded for cruelty, and has a harder time doing the right thing- which makes it very important when they DO the right thing, regardless of their purpose.
An important part of Cazador is also his appearance. Astarion hypes him up to be this scary bogeyman the entire game, and then you meet the guy and he is just this depressed loser. I keep seeing people complain about his appearance, that he should look more intimidating, but I love his portrayal because it is so realistic. Those like Cazador are just normal people with jobs and families. Only certain unlucky ones will ever see the monster that lurks inside. And Astarion did and now its all he can see. Only at the very end when he stabs him to death, he can finally see Cazador for what he really was.
I do believe that Cazador thinks he is a merciful master, because Velioth has done worse to him. Velioth impaled him for 11 years, so he was being nice by entombing Astarion for "just" 1 year. But I don't actually think he is being better than Velioth, his abuse is just different. It does the same damage, no matter if the scars are physical or mental.
The inclusion of Amanita Szarr in my interpretation serves to show that not all vampires are inherently evil (unlike most DnD lore). Because this is first and foremost a story about the cycle of abuse and 'vampire, therefore evil' goes against that theme. If turning into a vampire (perhaps even) against your will, leaves you with no other option than become an abuser, there is nothing to take away from the story.
I think that's probably one of the hardest things to admit to oneself as a victim of abuse (depending on the person's experience, at least). That your abuser wasn't just a scary evil and special monster - that they were also just some person.
I guess that also echoes how abuse is easily overlooked because anyone can be abused, anyone can be an abuser, and often times abusers have been victims of abuse themselves at one point.
I was not prepared for Cazador to be such a weenie.
He's at least one of the harder boss fights and managed to cause a wipe and a reload on tactician so he at least has that going for him.
I feel like Amanita’s inclusion fits a similar role as Omelum’s in the story, showing the player that there are people who were transformed into these horrible monsters and yet retained their nature, refused to become evil, and decided to help those in similar situations (curiously both by spreading knowledge). Granted, Amanita’s role is a lot smaller but I feel like it should, as Cazador’s role is also a lot smaller and more focused than the Absolute’s and the Dead Three.
(Also, in D&D they are moving away from that “certain races are certain alinements”, orcs and other monstrous player races were changed from exclusively evil canonically, so ignoring that vampire rule has precedent in the books)
Also his voice. I've seen complaints about his "old man" voice, but Ketheric also has an "old man" voice and no one is mad about that.
But you meet Cazador, and he sounds *feeble*. He sounds harmless. If you'd met him first, are you SURE you'd believe Astarion?
Not depressed. Narcissistic. Loser however is apt.
my head cannon is that godey is the friend cazador reached out to, and when cazador free'd himself, he went back and raised that friend's bones to have him again
Ooooh!! I like that head cannon!
What I find fascinating is the worldview instilled by this line of vampirism. You can see it with Velioth, Cazador, and Astarion before he even makes the decision to ascend or not, saying that the only thing Cazador did wrong was that he did it to him. In their worldview, there is no good or bad, only victims and those in power. It's such an alien way for most people to view the world, but each spawn spends decades or even centuries having this idea impressed upon them.
When you think about the outrageous lengths that need to be taken for someone to view the world in such a twisted way, the more understanding it is that so few people break free of that cycle. Astarion is the only companion who requires you to pass a persuasion check to get his good ending. It just goes to show that by becoming a good person, Astarion isn't just defying fate, he is shattering it.
Does that worldview really exist super far from people in reality?
The story of Amanita Szarr is so tragic. Cazador turned her, and gave her the option to either drink humanoid blood or starve. First it was blood that had already been drained. And then he locked her in the attic with a bound captive. He didn't directly command her to kill the captive, but he forbade her from any other options. The guilt she must have felt after caving to her hunger is just heartbreaking. Knowing she was resisting for gods know how long, and then finally relented after her hunger took over.
What was going through the captive's mind, I wonder? Did they feel for her? Or did their fear and desperation and anger leave no room for any compassion at all? Did they forgive her? Or did they curse her name? The world may never know.
I might make a short fanfiction about this now that I think about it. There's a D&D character that I made a few years ago that would be absolutely perfect.
@@emmasilver2332 Hope you share if you do
@@CakeandCosplay I'm writing it right now and I'm so excited
I like the idea of a villain that endeavors to be a less evil version of their master. Also I like vampires too, they're fun.
Vampires are really fun!!
I always thought that Cazador favored torturing Astarian because he reminds Cazador the most of himself and we always hate what we see of ourselves in others.
That's a good point!! I've seen some speculate that Vellioth may have looked like Astarion, but I like the idea of seeing himself in Astarion, and that kind of supports the theme of Astarion having the choice of kind of turning into Cazador or doing better.
I remember thinking he was gonna be a huge menace from what Astarion told me and then I burst out laughing when we meet, seeing him look and sound like a wood elf from oblivion
bros got eso mannimarco energy
A Mizora video would be super interesting to see!
I have this theory that Cazador didn't really know Astarion at all and that his large staff was definitely compensating for something. I seriously think that Cazador hired the Gur to kill Astarion back before our favorite pale elf was turned due to some political stuff. I think that the spawn were definitely used sexually and that Astarion was also used for killing Cazador's political opponents and other enemies. It's why I made Astarion an assassin.
**Unpacks Cazador**
**Looks inside**
"It's... there's nothing there! He's completely empty! Can you believe this shit, Astarion?"
Jaheira is old because she's only a half elf!
A Cazaddy video is crazy
Cazaddy it’s crazy.
HANNAH NOT YOU TOO
aw BROTHER this guy STINKSSSS
I appreciate the move away from "entire species are inherently evil," but there's so much to be explored with monsters who *become*. Because the only real way to magically turn evil is to lose free will, and if the monster has no free will, how much responsibility do they really bear for their evil actions? You can work to stop them, prevent them from continuing to harm people, you can hate them if they hurt you personally, but can you actually blame them?
And what is "morality," anyway? What if the monster magically loses all interest in doing the right thing but also has no motivation to harm others? Did Amanita choose to work against Cazador because she somehow managed to remain "good," or to spite him for what he did to her?
And what does that change really look like? For narrative expediency, it's usually shown as a flipped switch, turning into a moustache-twirling villain overnight, but in reality, so much of our behavior is based in habit. If you're used to acting in a certain way, chances are good you'd continue to do so for a while simply because that's just... you. It would take a while for gradual changes to accumulate enough that you're completely, unambiguously evil. I wonder how long Cazador had been a vampire by the time he turned Astarion. Astarion was turned in 1268, so Cazador must already have been a full vampire at that time, even though he didn't succeed Vellioth as Vampire Lord until 1276. Perhaps he did start out kinder, back when he was already a full vampire but still under someone else's thumb, though it had clearly all been ground away by 1268.
There's still a lot of nuance to be had within a black-and-white framework of "vampires bad." Yeah, I hate Cazador. In a good playthrough, there's really no choice but to take him out, and it's really satisfying. But damn, I feel sorry for the guy.
I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but in the 5e Monster Manual there’s a section of the description of (full) vampires (not spawn, importantly) called Dark Desires that states:
“Whether or not a vampire retains any memories from its former life, its emotional attachments wither as once-pure feelings become twisted by undeath. Love turns into hungry obsession, while friendship becomes bitter jealousy. In place of emotion, vampires pursue physical symbols of what they crave, so that a vampire seeking love might fixate on a young beauty. A child might become an object of fascination for a vampire obsessed with youth and potential. Others surround themselves with art, books, or sinister items such as torture devices or trophies from creatures they have killed.”
As such, the idea that so many of his evil actions were spurred on by the desire to have a family or “equals” itself holds a lot of weight. He definitely had a close enough connection to others so as to reach out to his friend, and that desire for connection was twisted when he became a vampire into the construction of a warped, fucked up family unit. This also feels like it plays into the idea that an ascended Astarion could be “better” than Cazador. Inevitably, he can’t, Cazador tried to be better and vampirism shaped that desire into something cruel and obsessive. It’s why astarion becomes an asshole if you allow him to ascend, and when, if you romance him, he claims ownership of you: love twisted to control and obsession. All because Astarion decided to follow in his abuser’s footsteps and complete the ritual. It’s pretty neat to see how well they seem to stick to this pretty specific bit of vampire lore and used it to tell this story. It’s also very fun to play with as a DM when constructing vampire villains imo.
Now let's see how long it takes for a certain somebody to comment "Cazadaddy," lmao.
10/10 analysis though, as always!
You’re pulling off that look so well! I’m excited for another installment of my favorite BG3 series
Wonderfully insightful analysis. It really hammers home how amazingly well written this game is, especially Astarion's questline. I know the AA fangirlies soured your love of Astarion for a while, so I appreciate you dealing with that to make this excellent video.
ITS HERE
Honestly, I wish more people dug deeper into Cazador. It makes Astarion's storyline so much better because it's basically a cycle of abuse. Cazador was once abused and became the abuser. Astarion, depending on your choices, either ends the cycle or continues it. It's brilliant!
I have a headcanon that Cazador suffered from sexual/intimacy issues and did not have sex at all. Forcing the spawn to use their bodies and have sex with their victims was not intended as a humiliation ritual, but it was his way of vicariously experiencing sexual passion. Perhaps he even craved love and so he fixated on the ACT of love, since vampires obsess over material symbols for the things they want. He may have even thought the spawn were blessed that they got to spend their lifespans bedding young beauties, and thought they were ingrates for disliking it.
I think the rhing of "he was impaled because he failed"- i always interpreted that as Cazador tried to kill Vellioth and failed.
I’m reading a fanfic right now called Perfect Slaughter that just concluded recently. It explores a lot of the stuff you touched on in the video, and fleshes out the mechanics of both the Rite of Profane Ascension and the Rite of Perfect Slaughter. I highly recommend it, but be warned it’s not a cheery read.
AO3?
@@grumpynoodlejen5616Yep! Super easy to find.
Did anyone else question if the murder attempt before Cazador turned Astarion was what Astarion thinks. I know I felt it was more likely to me the entire thing was planned. Sort of an I want that one I'll try to rile up some people with a grudge and see what happens, or I want that one I'll pay those people with a grudge to try and kill him so I have leverage.
It's heavily speculated that the group of gur who attacked him was hired by Cazador. I do think of it as a Astarion had it coming moment, with his shitty actions as a magistrate catch up with him like he says, something that would have happened anyway.. But both can be true! I wish we knew more of how and why Cazador picked Astarion to be his spawn.
These unpacking videos have been really great. Glad I found your channel!
Love your analysis of Cazador, and honestly I always wondered if pre-turned Cazador was even remotely a good person. Hard to tell because they game doesn't give us an idea and being turned does change you both physically and mentally.
I do like the idea that Cazador pre-vampire is very different from his current self, and it is why he treated his niece so cruelly. Here, his niece is holding onto her morals and rejecting the idea of drinking blood as much as she can, while he is an empty person who has completely lost any form of his identity from his past life. Oh the rage he must felt.
Also FYI, the reason Jaheira is old for 150 years is because she is a half-elf, not full elf! The average lifespan of half elves are around 180 years, and since she refused to take the timeless body druid ritual to stop physical aging, she's around her late 60s in human years.
OH! That makes so much sense for Jaheira! Idk how I missed that she was a half elf instead of a full elf.
What about unpacking Gortash? He is my favorite character and there is so much to his character, especially when it interweaves so much with others! DUrge, Raphael, Karlach, and just the speculations on his motives! This is not even mentioning his parents.
Great video! Really did make me think deeply on Cazador 😮
Babe wake up new pocket leaves unpacking BG3 video just dropped (I love ur content, I'm so excited for more of it, mizora unpacking when?)
This was a lovely video!!! I really hope you continue unpacking these characters, it brings a much clearer understanding of the depth of each one. (i’m Really hoping for an Unpacking Gortash and Maybe The Dark Urge!!)
Imo the fact that Cazador calls his spawn "family" and instructs them to refer to each other as siblings seems to be his own unique spin on abuse, as he was seemingly Vellioth's only spawn and thus spent all of his enslavement completely alone; that is, that particular shtick of his is his own creation and way of normalizing abuse.
I think the family metaphor is especially apt because, as far as cycles of abuse go, generational relationships are one of the biggest ways trauma and abuse are perpetrated. Think of that one Tweet or whatever that's like "You were beaten as a child and turned out just fine? Clearly not, you think it's okay to beat children." If the spawn are 'siblings' then Cazador is positioning himself, probably deliberately, as a father. The in universe reason for this is unclear; does he see himself as more benevolent and lenient than Vellioth, therefore loving/fatherly to his spawn in comparison? Is it because he was an "only child" of a spawn, so having multiple spawn and calling them a family is a way for him to try and alleviate his solitude and the way he was his master's sole abuse target in some perverse way? It's not like this allegory for family is a reach considering that one line Cazador says about "what is family if not the monsters we are obliged to love?" and how he even refers to Astarion as a prodigal son. Was Cazador alluding (even subconsciously) to the fact that vampirism ran in his own family, meaning that (his) family is LITERALLY the monsters he was obliged to love?
Regardless, I do think Cazador's positioning as a father figure in this story about abuse was a very targeted choice. It ties in generational trauma into the theme of cycles of violence, this sort of normalization of violence where our own abusive parents are so steeped in a culture of violence and abuse that they literally do not comprehend their own behavior as being abusive. At least in this case Cazador does see himself as a monster to some extent, but as far as his behavior and words are concerned, it seems the way he copes with it is to simply double down and insist that this abuse of his spawn is simply part of "achieving perfection" or that he is "forgiving" compared to Vellioth. In much the same way that abusive parents justify their actions as just how parents are supposed to raise children or how all of their punishments were justified by some misbehavior of their children.
Sorry for the essay I just recently started obsessing with Cazador as a hyperfixation/comfort character (wild I know) and I really appreciate this video existing as proof that ppl are willing to discuss how even horrible monsters like Cazador have depth
Edit: I wrote this about halfway through the video and you mentioned a lot of the same stuff lol
More villain unpackings! Love this series ❤
5:20 Jaheira is only a half elf, and while that doesn't make mom any less awesome, it does mean she is pretty old at being over 150 years old. Just a little note to explain that "oddity" ^^
Very good points here. I noticed them, too.
Amazing analysis!! 🙏
another great video, i'm obsessed with these
5:20 just to precise Jaheira is not an elf she’s a half-elf that’s why she is just 150 years old (half-elves live approximatetly 180 years old)
Very good video by the way love you ❤
Unpacking the Doughbag: Cazador
I cant help but stare at that little Abbacchino figure in the back. Best goth.
NEW POCKET LEAVES VIDEO. BEST. SUNDAY. EVER!!!! 😁
Ok I have no idea if it’s something you plan to do but could we get a video on Raphael? Possibly?
Who’s to say cazador and astarions reasoning for ascending arent the same? To not fear *anyone ever again*
OMG yeah I can see that, especially if you're looking at Cazador and Vellioth as a parallel to Astarion and Cazador.
The SIZE of the location is just absolutely insane I couldn't believe it just kept GOING
omg yeah, there's so much to explore in Cazador's manor.
YES
EVERYONE WAKE UP LEAF POSTED ABOUT CAZADOR!
pls say hi to your abbacio nendoroid for me
Mol. Because she herself would say so =P
A universe I think you would enjoy deep diving into would be the fallout universe. For a specific character, one of the best is Joshua Graham. With your love of good character writing you're bound to come across him at some point, but we can't expect god to do all the work...
I think whether Cazador experienced SA or not, dude knows sex sells. Sending out a bunch of young, well versed and charming spawn was easy souls. I was a teen in the twilight hype and you cant convince me he wouldnt have THRIVED getting victims in 2010 lol.
We gonna unpack Veleoth too?
Have you read the description of Cazadors Dagger?
girllll where'd you get that abbacchio figurine?
It's the nendoroid! I preordered him when he came out a few years ago, but you may still be able to find him on good smile company's website, or second hand? (fyi for second hand, shipping and all he cost about $60 new, but would be a bit cheaper if ordered directly from good smile's japanese website. Sometimes second hand figure prices are WILDLY expensive)
Hi. I snatched a dead illithid larva from a cat near the moon tower, but I can't find any information about it anywhere. Do you know anything about it?
Is it the furless cat that says it’s hunting the larva?
It doesn't really do anything, just a clue to let you know you're on the right track looking for the source of the tadpoles.
Unfortunately it's just a dead tadpole and you can't actually consume it for power
Where did you get the Astarions fine wines poster from?
I got it from the artist A Sunny Disposish at a convention! asunnydisposish.carrd.co/
@@PocketLeaves thank you for the answer! 💖
Not Minsc... so maybe Jaheira instead?
jaheira looks old because she's only half elven!
Lol, immortality is "draining."
I like to think Ascended Astarion is drunk on power right after it happens but once he gets a grip he will level out and continue healing and your Tav/Durge as his spawn now has eternity to help him. But I also see how “hurt people hurt people” especially when you hear Astarion change you from “My Love” to “My Pet” it feels very much like he stopped loving us and is right back to manipulating up into falling for his new self.
Cazador clearly put value into his actual blood family seeing as we see people with Szar last names mentioned in documents and books but the spawn who aren’t actually family are viewed like mouse traps
I would like to know where in the ascended path it shows that he might be healing? What is the theme here if he heals in both paths?
@@Louves192 it doesn’t not necessarily but it feels too sudden of a flip for it to be more than a power trip. Also he levels out a small amount during the final party glad to see everyone only mad he wasn’t allowed to host the get together. It feels very like a addict on the road to recovery but still relapsing every so often when shit gets too hard
@@skyesmith5683 Well I guess that's one way to interpret things and I can see that it might look like that if you select very specific dialogue options. Because (according to the script and the dev notes) most of the dialogues are pretty patronizing and he is jealous of the companions who are doing better than him. He is also planning to create more spawn and take over Baldur's Gate. Repressing trauma and your own feelings is not the same as healing.
I disagree with a lot of your take, but I'm so glad you mentioned the drunk/addict comparison bc when I first experienced A-Astarion I personally thought he came off as someone suffering from mania. I mean, he's a super powerful vampire so the "symptoms" are just me imposing mental health rules on a supernatural creature, but the way AA suddenly speaks with such superiority, the way he has massive delusions of grandeur, he even seems to be incredibly high energy as he describes how every passing second feels like hours to him. Idk there's just something special to me about A-Astarion comparisons that compare his situation to that of an addict or untreated mental illness. Idk what it's like to be a vampire ascendant but I can comprehend/empathize with more mundane things like mental health/illness. Really the way Astarion's mannerisms and voice change so noticeably is fascinating to me in general
Mass effect Legendary Edition now discounted on Steam until July 11th
First! 😊
Not sure why were debating Cazador being a merciful master, the dude was literally willing to sacrifice thousands of lives which he orchestrated for hundreds of years in order to become more powerful. Maybe he views himself as such, but he's nuts if he actually believes that about himself
I mean, no one is saying he actually is merciful. That's just his perception. The only thing is he's more merciful than Vellioth, that's not to say he is ACTUALLY merciful.
Probably the most disappointing villain. Does anyone remember Elder Scrolls Oblivion? Cazador will sounds like a wood elf. That's not a compliment.
I feel like that's the point. Abusers aren't often that scary for the people outside the abusers reach and control. They even knew you would think that so there was a dialogue option in the game to question Astarions fear of Cazador
I. hate. this. Character. I end him EVERY playthrough, whether I romance Astarion or not. The thing about him that sets me off the most is .... he doesn't look like an all powerful Vampire lord. He looks like evil Steve from accounting. ASTARION is way more terrifying once ascended than Cazador is UNascended. So...why didn't they make him LOOK actually terrifying? Minthara is terrifying in appearance despite being pretty. We ALL know it was possible. ALSO, his voice makes him sound like a used car salesman named Ernie.
I think they made him just some guy to mirror how irl most abusers are just some guy. Although I do wish they would have gone with is earlier design, because it looks really cool. I think the voice fits, but to me it just sounds kind of ancient (I know Cazador isn't THAT old in the grand scheme of things but it makes him feel old in a way that I think works for him)
@@PocketLeaves Oh the VA delivers the lines well. I just hate the voice. He sounds like a little old lady whose voice was slowed down to 33 RPMS on those old 1970s record players. I'm just not a fan. BTW excellent analysis, as always!