This was such an interesting analysis, thank you! I'm glad Rebeca did not compete this vault in Paris, I'm not worried about her knees--she is clearly doing it safely, but I don't think she quite has it in the bag in terms of getting it credited as a triple. She's so close though, and I have every faith she'll get it perfected in time to perform it at a worlds in the next few years! It's a bummer that there aren't any videos of her Amanar from Paris available online right now, it was much better than her Amanar from Tokyo, which is shown here.
@@erinm9445 yes, I felt the same way about your triple. It’s definitely improving quickly, but why risk it at the Olympics. I think we will see it eventually and it will be named after her. I think she approaches her gymnastics and a smart way and tries to preserve her body. I hope she can compete for a long time to come. My best.
Her Amanar video is available to me here in Brazil, I've just watched it lol But it seems that the videos from Paris Olympics are geoblocked, I had to activate VPN to unlock some of them!
Yes, Rebeca really does a good job of keeping really nice form in the air. On the Mens side, Carlos Yulo is very clean in the air in his skills also. Everyone is a bit different and also everyone has good and bad days but Rebeca is very consistent with very nice execution and form.
The Yurchenko Double Pike and the Yurchenko Triple Twist have the same difficulty for men? Can anyone explain why the proposed difficulty for the Yurchenko triple twist is a 6.0 while the Biles II is a 6.6?
That is really surprising to me and I dont understand why they are so far apart on difficulty for the women. If anybody else has any insight, I would love to hear. Thanks for your message.
It's because MAG and WAG have completely different systems of logic for evaluating vaults. In MAG double salto vaults are common and are not considered generally more difficult than twisting vaults. Part of that is the MAG vaulting table being 10cm higher, which helps with double salto vaults. Whereas in WAG double salto vaults are exceedingly rare: the Biles 2 and the Produnova are the only double salto vaults ever performed. For women, double salto vaults are considered generally more difficult, including due to the vaulting table being 10cm lower, so they generally have higher DV than twisting vaults. That said, there is a lot of internal inconsistency in the WAG COP re vaults, including with the Biles 2 being 0.4 higher in DV than the Produnova, which makes no sense. Even the execution deductions work differently for men and women. So overall, it's not possible to predict WAG vault values based on equivalent values in MAG
BTW the Biles 2 is 6.4, not 6.6. And to give you a sense of how different MAG is, the highest DV vaults in MAG are currently 6.0 which is shared by: 1) Yang Hak Seon (front handspring 3/1) 2) Yonekura (Tsuk 3.5) 3) Ri Se Gwang 2 ( front handspring double pike 1/2) 4) Ri Se Gwang 1 (Tsuk double tuck 1/1) 5) Shirai 2 (Yurchenko 3.5) You'll see that Yurchenko and Tsuk vaults have the same DV in MAG, whereas in WAG Tsuk vaults are always higher in DV than Yurchenko ones with the same flight phase. Another example of the difference is that in WAG the Produnova is 6.0 while the Amanar is 5.4; whereas in MAG those same vaults (called the Roche and Shewfelt) are both 5.2. So you can see that WAG considers double salto vaults to be more difficult.
Unless I have something mixed up, I believe the Biles II is rated 6.4, not 6.6. I always recall commentators pointing out that Simone has an .8 advantage, because the Cheng is rated at 5.6, & so an .8 advantage would equate to a 6.4, which I believe is the Biles II is rated. Regardless- WOW- for both Simone & Rebeca, both world-class vaulters. (Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with the rating!)
@@poshbo thank you for the informative information. I am very familiar with the men’s vault values, but not as familiar with the women’s vaults values. This actually makes a little bit of sense and helps me understand - single flip versus multiple flip for women. Rock on and thanks.
@@SamBryans128 that’s interesting. I was not sure what Simone was planning to do after this Olympics. For gymnastics, she is older. Ironically, she seems to do it pretty comfortably these days, but maybe she does not want to take the risks if she chooses to continue competing. Her other vaults, which I think are very comfortable for her, will keep her close to the top also but like with Simone 2.
@@OLYMPIANTEACHES-bh6gp She said she's not going to say never, I think the idea of the Olympics on home soil is intriguing to a lot of athletes who might have otherwise retired. But she has expressed that her and Jonathan would like to become parents someday as well. So it's all kind of dependent on how her health and priorities might change.
I really wished to see Rebeca competing this vault in Paris - at least in the event final. She seems pretty solid. But I guess she chose safety; as she knows her body better than anyone else, it was probably a good choice. I also wished to see Biles competing the double front tuck (Produnova vault) - but it's too late now, right? She'll probably retire before L.A. 2028.
From what I’ve been reading, since it’s been 24 year since the amanar was born and basically only one gymnast tried the triple twist at rio 2016, they decided to give 0.2 more tenths based on the thinking that is really hard to get that extra half twist.
@@martron987 Exactly. They should also raise the DV of the Amanar, givien that almost no one can do them now, and there are probably only two gymnasts in the world (Simone and Rebeca) who can do an Amanar well enough to outscore a really nice DTY. (Jade used to be able to do an Amanar this well, but it doesn't seem like she quite can anymore; and none of the new Amanars are close, even the ones that are solid and quite safe like GB's Ruby.)
@@OLYMPIANTEACHES-bh6gp não existe manobra nenhuma, a questão é que o risco e a dificuldade desse salto elevam a nota, não é só 0,4 por volta é 0,4 mas tem o risco de lesão que é 3x maior nesse salto. É bem simples fazer as contas... Um grande abraço.
@@LeonadorLima your question is fine. If I understand correctly, she would have to work and improve a lot to add another half twist to her triple four. I think her knees are pretty good now, but they are always vulnerable to injury since her surgeries. I don’t believe she would try to learn a 3 1/2 twist. I think a triple twistwould be incredible at this point in her career.
@@OLYMPIANTEACHES-bh6gp So let's suppose that she prefers to improve the 3 pirouette yunchenko and leave it to learn the 3.5 yunchenko with great effort in 2026 since it would be "enough" for her legs to improve with the care of the medical team
@@OLYMPIANTEACHES-bh6gp It would be my dream for her to do a yunchenko with 3.5 pirouettes, believe it or not I've been saying this since last year. Imagine in the two-jump competitions her doing both or doing this yunchenko and cheng
3 ACL surgeries. I really really hope she stays healthy in this quad.
I'm pretty sure Rebeca will be nailing it by the time of the next big competition!
This was such an interesting analysis, thank you! I'm glad Rebeca did not compete this vault in Paris, I'm not worried about her knees--she is clearly doing it safely, but I don't think she quite has it in the bag in terms of getting it credited as a triple. She's so close though, and I have every faith she'll get it perfected in time to perform it at a worlds in the next few years!
It's a bummer that there aren't any videos of her Amanar from Paris available online right now, it was much better than her Amanar from Tokyo, which is shown here.
@@erinm9445 yes, I felt the same way about your triple. It’s definitely improving quickly, but why risk it at the Olympics. I think we will see it eventually and it will be named after her. I think she approaches her gymnastics and a smart way and tries to preserve her body. I hope she can compete for a long time to come. My best.
Her Amanar video is available to me here in Brazil, I've just watched it lol But it seems that the videos from Paris Olympics are geoblocked, I had to activate VPN to unlock some of them!
@@YurymBR Oh right, I forgot they were all up on the Olympics website!
Amazing how tight her legs are, not crossing them at all unlike the male gymnast
Yes, Rebeca really does a good job of keeping really nice form in the air. On the Mens side, Carlos Yulo is very clean in the air in his skills also. Everyone is a bit different and also everyone has good and bad days but Rebeca is very consistent with very nice execution and form.
The Yurchenko Double Pike and the Yurchenko Triple Twist have the same difficulty for men? Can anyone explain why the proposed difficulty for the Yurchenko triple twist is a 6.0 while the Biles II is a 6.6?
That is really surprising to me and I dont understand why they are so far apart on difficulty for the women. If anybody else has any insight, I would love to hear. Thanks for your message.
It's because MAG and WAG have completely different systems of logic for evaluating vaults. In MAG double salto vaults are common and are not considered generally more difficult than twisting vaults. Part of that is the MAG vaulting table being 10cm higher, which helps with double salto vaults.
Whereas in WAG double salto vaults are exceedingly rare: the Biles 2 and the Produnova are the only double salto vaults ever performed. For women, double salto vaults are considered generally more difficult, including due to the vaulting table being 10cm lower, so they generally have higher DV than twisting vaults. That said, there is a lot of internal inconsistency in the WAG COP re vaults, including with the Biles 2 being 0.4 higher in DV than the Produnova, which makes no sense.
Even the execution deductions work differently for men and women. So overall, it's not possible to predict WAG vault values based on equivalent values in MAG
BTW the Biles 2 is 6.4, not 6.6. And to give you a sense of how different MAG is, the highest DV vaults in MAG are currently 6.0 which is shared by:
1) Yang Hak Seon (front handspring 3/1)
2) Yonekura (Tsuk 3.5)
3) Ri Se Gwang 2 ( front handspring double pike 1/2)
4) Ri Se Gwang 1 (Tsuk double tuck 1/1)
5) Shirai 2 (Yurchenko 3.5)
You'll see that Yurchenko and Tsuk vaults have the same DV in MAG, whereas in WAG Tsuk vaults are always higher in DV than Yurchenko ones with the same flight phase.
Another example of the difference is that in WAG the Produnova is 6.0 while the Amanar is 5.4; whereas in MAG those same vaults (called the Roche and Shewfelt) are both 5.2. So you can see that WAG considers double salto vaults to be more difficult.
Unless I have something mixed up, I believe the Biles II is rated 6.4, not 6.6. I always recall commentators pointing out that Simone has an .8 advantage, because the Cheng is rated at 5.6, & so an .8 advantage would equate to a 6.4, which I believe is the Biles II is rated. Regardless- WOW- for both Simone & Rebeca, both world-class vaulters. (Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with the rating!)
@@poshbo thank you for the informative information. I am very familiar with the men’s vault values, but not as familiar with the women’s vaults values. This actually makes a little bit of sense and helps me understand - single flip versus multiple flip for women. Rock on and thanks.
Great video!
@@abbylockhart8554 thank you and glad you enjoyed it. My best.
Simone has said she doesn't plan on doing the Biles II anymore.
Why?
@@SamBryans128 that’s interesting. I was not sure what Simone was planning to do after this Olympics. For gymnastics, she is older. Ironically, she seems to do it pretty comfortably these days, but maybe she does not want to take the risks if she chooses to continue competing. Her other vaults, which I think are very comfortable for her, will keep her close to the top also but like with Simone 2.
@@Ballistic-vn6em She said she "has it down." She's also mentioned that it's terrifying. Not to mention all the pressure on her knees and ankles.
@@SamBryans128 thanks!!
@@OLYMPIANTEACHES-bh6gp She said she's not going to say never, I think the idea of the Olympics on home soil is intriguing to a lot of athletes who might have otherwise retired. But she has expressed that her and Jonathan would like to become parents someday as well. So it's all kind of dependent on how her health and priorities might change.
I really wished to see Rebeca competing this vault in Paris - at least in the event final. She seems pretty solid. But I guess she chose safety; as she knows her body better than anyone else, it was probably a good choice. I also wished to see Biles competing the double front tuck (Produnova vault) - but it's too late now, right? She'll probably retire before L.A. 2028.
Lance, please analyze Daiane dos Santos gymnastics! ;)
I am analyzing her floor right now and the video should be out in a couple of days. She was really springy. My best.
0.4 awarded for each 1/2 twist (typically) but at the end of the day they do whatever they want.
Hahah. Yes, there always seems to be some wiggle room in there. Thanks for the info
From what I’ve been reading, since it’s been 24 year since the amanar was born and basically only one gymnast tried the triple twist at rio 2016, they decided to give 0.2 more tenths based on the thinking that is really hard to get that extra half twist.
@@martron987 Exactly. They should also raise the DV of the Amanar, givien that almost no one can do them now, and there are probably only two gymnasts in the world (Simone and Rebeca) who can do an Amanar well enough to outscore a really nice DTY. (Jade used to be able to do an Amanar this well, but it doesn't seem like she quite can anymore; and none of the new Amanars are close, even the ones that are solid and quite safe like GB's Ruby.)
@@OLYMPIANTEACHES-bh6gp não existe manobra nenhuma, a questão é que o risco e a dificuldade desse salto elevam a nota, não é só 0,4 por volta é 0,4 mas tem o risco de lesão que é 3x maior nesse salto. É bem simples fazer as contas... Um grande abraço.
I hope I'm not stupid, but do you think she could do 3 and a half pirouettes without the injuries or with the injuries?
@@LeonadorLima your question is fine. If I understand correctly, she would have to work and improve a lot to add another half twist to her triple four. I think her knees are pretty good now, but they are always vulnerable to injury since her surgeries. I don’t believe she would try to learn a 3 1/2 twist. I think a triple twistwould be incredible at this point in her career.
@@OLYMPIANTEACHES-bh6gp So let's suppose that she prefers to improve the 3 pirouette yunchenko and leave it to learn the 3.5 yunchenko with great effort in 2026 since it would be "enough" for her legs to improve with the care of the medical team
@@OLYMPIANTEACHES-bh6gp It would be my dream for her to do a yunchenko with 3.5 pirouettes, believe it or not I've been saying this since last year. Imagine in the two-jump competitions her doing both or doing this yunchenko and cheng
Except, she doesn't complete the last twist, so.. doesn't count - yet