Historicnerd: Sega's SVP Chip, The Story of the Sega Virtua Processor
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- Join me as we dive into Sega's response to Nintendo's FX Chip
Its Bits not Bytes, I miss spoke.
My Theory at the end of the video isn't 100% accurate the Patent that code masters filed was for their Aladdin expansion deck. It didn't really allow for 3D graphics on a 16 bit it was focused on the 8 bit NES. The design spec for the patent does calm a modular unit with a stand alone GPU "Graphics Co Processor" in the receiver which still might have impacted Sega's ability to move forward with a patent for the modular SVP unit.
One segment has a borrowed video asset from (UA-camr Pishange Ujeniya)
Its Bits not Bytes, I miss spoke.
And at 7:15, it's coin-op, not coin-up.
joekenorer That is actually how it was written on Sega-16.net, I left it that way because I couldn't verify if Miller actually said it that way or not. But most likely a typo on the site.
16 colours per second? You probably meant in a frame, because there's nothing in particular happening in the console at second granularity, nor are VPU writes that much of a performance constraint; however that turns out not even to be strictly true - at half the horizontal resolution, full 512 colour output is possible, however CPU is halted during the active frame area, which normally limits the usefulness of this trick in a game; however, a cartridge co-processor wouldn't be halted, making this perfect for cartridge expansions.
This is a synchronisation trick that carefully times an extra long DMA burst into background colour register of palette memory - as difficult as it was in software, again dedicated hardware in the cartridge could have helped. I don't know whether it was widely known or considered at the time - Jon Burton (Traveller's Tales) recently revealed that he was working on something like that back then, but never quite got it working in software - he did get the image output, but the routine needed to be hand tuned for every console and wasn't entirely reliable. Sigflup and Titan however did accomplish a robust implementation that works every single time a few years ago.
Ahh, interesting factoid then. Leave it.
There are 4 bits in a byte.
Sega should have just made Virtua Racing itself a Lock-On unit, so that you could plug other games into Virtua Racing.
Hindsight is 20/20..smh.
Sega wasn't known to do sensible things back then. Would have been a game changer
There was discussion of a stand alone cart at one point.
I think it came down to it would cannibalize their 32x sales if they had two different upgrades that went in the cartridge slot.
Edit: he covered that in the vid. lol
@@glenwaldrop8166 I thought the stand-alone cart was canceled because of patent disputes.
@@AmaroqStarwind This vid is the first I've heard of that.
I was teenager back then, followed it closely. The rumor going around at the time was Sega didn't want to canibalize sales. The patent dispute would have been the nail in the coffin for sure.
At the time they had the Genesis, the Sega CD, the all in one CD console that never saw the states, the 32x and Saturn on the way, the Game Gear...
Frankly the 32x could have been affected by that patent, so not sure if it really mattered or not.
Frankly, the SVP cart would have been a better idea than the 32X business-wise. 40 bucks for a special cartridge that keeps the Genesis relevant for a little longer until the Saturn's actually ready would have been less of a debacle than a rushed $180 add-on that only released months apart from the base hardware's real successor and did nothing but sour consumer trust. But the root of all of SEGA's problems still stemmed back to Hayao Nakayama and the Japanese home office cutting Sega of America off at the knees and ruining all the work Tom Kalinske had done in making SEGA relevant over here. They were never the same and the effects can still be felt today.
Tom worked hard to get Sega into stores like Walmart and KB Toys. Then the rushed launch of the Saturn made stores angry at Sega and they refused to sell their products. Tom gave up and left.
@@SgtSega sega of Japan is so braindead, why?
@@doom5895 Miscommunication, weird business culture and lack of hindsight. From Sega, Capcom, Square, at some point they made a similar mistake over the years that really didn't benefit them in the end.
$50 + $50 16bit game is, 100. $150+ $50 32bit game,is 200. I think most would choose 32 bit. More colors, 16 more bits.
$49.95. SEGA had developed Daytona USA, Star Wars Arcade, Daytona USA, Virtua Racing, and Virtua Fighter. More important, it was already ready for Spring of 1994.
There needs to be an SVP homebrew community.
Golden Grenadier I'd totally buy one of those games.
HistoricNerd If there were some method of reproducing the SVP chip then repros could be made with it. Unfortunately to make an SVP homebrew game play on real hardware a virtua racing cart would have to be destroyed and its ROM chip replaced with an EPROM programmed with said homebrew code.
Then we're gonna need some reverse engineering!
@@GoldenGrenadier No need for destroying original Virtua Racing cartridges, it's possible to recreate the SVP chip on an FPGA.
@@GoldenGrenadier If you're still around, the MiSTER Genesis FPGA core now has support for the SVP. I'd love to see a standalone SVP core that could potentially work on a $20 FPGA or even cheaper.
I don't think the patent would have been too much of an issue, Codemasters were good friends with Sega, to the point (aside from EA), they were the only third party developer allowed to make their own official cartridges for the system.
I'm quite perplexed why Virtua Fighter 2 exists on the Mega Drive/Genesis though.
Thanks for dropping by to comment! You're most likely right about the patent. I just thought it was a fun theory to share at the end. I found the filing date of the patent suspect, because of its proximity to Sega's SVP modular cartridge discussion with a number of game magazines. I developed this theory because Sega tried to sue a few others companies based of of their patent of "changing camera location" in the Virtua Racing Arcade cabinet. I had wondered what would have caused Sega to pull out of the SVP project even after announcing it, so it was just a fun item to explore.
Larry Bundy Jr
larry, i love ya, but you don't understand the corrupt us courts
I suspect that the reason they pulled out of the project was because the 32x achieved more than what the SVP delivered. realistically we have on the one hand a stand alone plug in adaptor that bypasses some of the Genesis/MD's hardware to provide even better gfx with stand alone titles that would be plugged into said adaptor, while on the other hand we have a stand alone plug in adaptor that bypasses some of the G/MD's hardware to provide better gfx with stand alone titles that would be plugged into said adaptor or via the CD attachment...
The 32x really made this redundant.
Steven Benson price point of 50 bucks and shorter time to market would be a big advantage. And 32x was a really half-assed design, with worse cost/performance ratio.
Larry Bundy Jr Guru Larry! I agree with you as well! The way SoA president Tom Kalinske so their partners, I think they would have jumped on board with Codemasters. They way he spoke about teaming up with Sony for the Saturn development, how it would allow splitting costs and risk, by working together on the hardware, and also how he so strongly felt that it was far too early to drop Genesis support, this would have fit in perfectly. Without the need for the 32X to boot. Those games could have been downscaled to SVP or upscaled to Saturn standards instead. SoJ was always the issue in the 4th to 5th gen transition.
I always fantasize about what kind of games and hardware you could find in alternate realities where things might have just gone that little bit different
Right there with you.
One reality I've always though about is one where the production of new consoles had become illigal due to not flooding the market or something like that, so companies would have to make their 8 or 16 bit console evolve in another way like they did with these co-prossesor chips, but imagine were they would be if they had kept on working with that. Eventually the console itself would most likely be little more than a shell for the games that would carry it's own more powerful console inside.
I think that's what the guy who made the Wolfenstein 3DS GBC cartridge did too.
I had wondered why since in Brazil the master system and genesis lasted so long why they hadn't taken the hardware to a new level. But that's where my thought process goes.
Yeah. I've been thinking the same, but I suppose it has more to do with the Genesis and it's games just filling a gap a placeholder instead of a leading fronteer
The MSU1 chip for example is one really impressive little people of technology that blows the Sega CD out of the water when it comes to FMV. Of course the technology wouldn't have been afforable in any way shape or fashion back then but it is an interesting look into what the SNES can achieve and it had it been feasable during it's hay day, I would have loved to see what developers could have done with it.
If Sega had made a 3D game for the Saturn that used the 4mb ram expansion it would have looked amazing, probably better than an N64 title and at higher resolution.
I imported Virtua Racing SVP for the Totally Video Game stores our parent company owned and I managed. It was a hit and we ordered 10 more, we couldn’t keep them in the store, they were constantly rented and the amount of money we made back on those rentals was obscene. I still have one of those copies along with a large inventory of Genesis boxed games I got to keep when the operation folded just before the tech bubble burst in 2000. I miss those days dearly, writing for VGA/Cyberactive and helping run the three Totally Video Game rental/retail stores. It was just an amazing time and gamers weren’t so jaded. *shakes fist at cloud at current video game landscape of loot boxes, micro-transactions, and kids paying $100 for a fucking digital hat.
Wow man I am consistently floored by the quality of your research and editing. This was a fascinating piece on a little known sega hardware topic that doesn't get much coverage. Loved this video bro.
Oh So Jiggly Thanks man. I hope to do more like this.
Absolutely killed it with this video man. great information and lots of cool little details in the editing. Is it just me or were those polygons in the font you used for some of the titles?
haha yeah. Its a polygon font, because.....video needs more POLYGONS!
HistoricNerd lol
Incredible work. You're knocking it out of the park with the quality of content and production value.
+Junkball Media Thank you! coming from you that means a lot to me. The great stuff you put out has influenced my want for better quality.
Kind of wonder what would have happened if Sega just released a $50 SVP chip cart rather than making a ton of expensive under supported Genesis accessories and spreading themselves too thin.
All this time, I always thought that Sonic & Knuckles "LOCK ON TECHNOLOGY" was intended for more than just a sonic game. The SVP cart, has lock on technology. I'm quite excited to see that they did indeed have more ideas.
Alternate Timeline:
1993: Sega releases the SVP stand-alone unit as the ONLY add-on for the Genesis (the 32x and the Sega CD are never released).
1994: Sega of America somehow convinces Sega of Japan to approve the Sega/Sony collaboration console (instead of developing the Saturn).
1996: The Sega/Sony Mega-Station is released, destroys all the competition and is launched with a 3D Sonic game (that plays like a faster Crash Bandicoot).
Fast Forward to 2017: Sega is the number one video game/console maker on the planet, open-world versions of Ristar and Panzer Dragoon exist, the Xbox never exists, Nintendo is producing purely super-advanced Game Boys and my faith in humanity is restored.
Tony Ortiz
The Nintendo part came true! 😉
OR:
1988: Knowing that the PC Engine was designed with expandability in mind, Sato-san connects all the pins on the 68K and the VDP to the expansion bus, allowing for palette expansion and more colors in the future, and eliminating the need for a second 68K CPU to control a CD drive.
1991: the Sega CD launches $100 cheaper because it doesn't need the second CPU anymore or the convoluted bridge RAM, and it increases the palette to 32,768 colors with 128 colors onscreen - allowing cross-platform devs to use the same exact color palette between Sega and Nintendo games. This cleaner, simpler architecture also makes it a breeze to release enhanced ports with CD soundtracks, so it takes little effort for just about every Genesis game to have a CD counterpart.
1993: Sega continues to support the Sega CD with Knuckles Chaotix, enhanced Genesis ports, Phantasy Star IV, etc. The success and simplicity of the Sega CD allows them to continue cutting the price of the unit periodically as a higher volume of systems are sold, until the unit is roughly the cost of a CD player. Of course, Sega takes a loss on the unit and makes their money back in licensing. Sega also releases the SVP standalone cart as well, launching with Virtua Racing, Virtua Fighter, Wing War, and Star Wars Arcade.
1994: Namco supports the SVP with ports of Polygonizer games like Cyber Sled. Sega releases Daytona USA for the combined Sega CD/SVP, using the Sega CD for textured and scaled backgrounds and the SVP for detailed polygonal cars. Atari and Microprose also support the new SVP cart with games like BMX Heat, Battle of the Solar System, Strike Eagle, and Super Tank Attack. Sega releases a combined Genesis/CD/SVP console for $300. Virtually all the sales that would have gone to the Atari Jaguar and 3DO have gone to the new unit, and then some.
1995: Sega cuts the Genesis/CD/SVP all-in-one to $200 and launches the Saturn worldwide, with a single 66 MHz PowerPC 602 CPU OR a custom 68040/060 and a custom DSP-based geometry transform engine for polygon calculations and a texture mapping chip designed by Yu Suzuki (who designed the texture chip on the Model 2). The simplicity of this design allows them to charge $300 for the console, matching the PlayStation while the Genesis/CD/SVP undercuts the PlayStation with pseudo-3D games and CD audio on a lower budget. However, the new Saturn uses software 68K emulation (like Mac OS and Amiga OS do) for backward compatibility of Genesis and Master System games, and its DSP-based geometry transformation engine emulates the SVP, offering a clear upgrade path to American, European, and Brazilian gamers. If Sega opts with a custom '040/060 from Motorola, its similarity to the Genesis allows the easy conversion of many late Genesis games to the new Saturn, such as Comix Zone, Ristar, etc.
1996: Not only does the Sega Saturn get a true 3D Sonic platformer, but so does the Genesis/CD/SVP, using the same programming tricks they used with Daytona USA to place fully polygonal characters, badniks, and obstacles over the Sega CD's scaled and rotated sprites and backgrounds. Likewise, games like Panzer Dragoon and Nights into Dreams are also ported to the Genesis/CD/SVP. These parallel games allow consumers to compare Sega IPs across 2 generations, much like Master System and Genesis games before them. Consumers can clearly see how superior the Saturn is to the Genesis/CD/VDP, so many will opt to pay the extra $100 for the Saturn. However, budget-conscious consumers still have an option in the Genesis/CD/SVP, so many will opt for that. Either way, Sega is gaining customers.
1997: Sega is competitive with Sony, leaving Nintendo a distant third. The Sega-Bandai merger goes through, making Sega-Bandai an industry giant of toys and electronics. Bandai franchises are now Sega-exclusive, and Sega uses their success worldwide to bring Bandai IPs to new heights.
1998: Because of the global success of the Saturn, Sega-Bandai is in no rush to release a successor. Instead, they release the WonderSwan (Color) designed by Gunpei Yokoi. Backward compatible with the Game Gear, and supported worldwide by Sega, it's a modest success despite the popularity of Pokemon, further cementing Sega's place in the handheld market.
2000: The Sega Saturn 2 goes head-to-head with the PlayStation 2. While the PS2 looks more impressive on paper, the Saturn 2 is no slouch with a 350 MHz PowerPC 603q CPU and a 175 MHz PowerVR GPU. With 32 MB RAM and 16 MB VRAM, its textures are 4X better than the PS2 despite the lower bandwidth. The proof is in the games, and the Saturn 2's new 3D Sonic launch title, enhanced port of Soul Calibur, and Phantasy Star Online absolutely smoke anything on the PlayStation 2. Sega and Sony are so competitive that Microsoft decides not to create the Xbox, instead partnering with Sega to include Windows CE and DirectX support with the Saturn 2.
2001: While Sony stakes its future on DVD technology, SEGA and PACE partner in the UK to create DVRs with built-in Saturn 2s.
2002: The Saturn 2 becomes a global game standard, as more DVRs across the globe integrate Sega Saturn 2s inside them. Sega releases a new, powerful, 3D handheld based on the StrongARM processor and a PowerVR GPU. It is roughly as powerful as the Dreamcast in our timeline. The handheld leapfrogs the Gameboy Advance and has a head-start on the PSP and Nintendo DS. Unlike Sony's PSP, this handheld Dreamcast uses industry standard SD cards to store game saves, and industry standard, 8 cm DVD-ROMs as its game medium.
2005: Sega releases the Saturn 3, powered by two dual-core PowerPC 970 derivatives and the same ATI GPU found in the Xbox 360. Sega doesn't pick sides between HD-DVD and Blu Ray, but they do use Quad-Layer DVD technology to support game discs up to 20 GB. Sony make the same mis-steps with the PlayStation 3 as they did in our timeline, just to shoe-horn blu ray and cell into the console. This is the generation that Sega beats Sony decisively.
New Sega consoles launch in 2010, 2015, and 2020 - every 5 years, on schedule. New handhelds also launch on a five-year cycle in 2007, 2012, and 2017. The 2007 handheld uses 8 cm Quad-Layer DVDs, but beginning with the 2012 handheld, games are stored on very high-capacity ROM cards.
Of course, this would all depend on Nakayama not being hell-bent on beating every other company (NEC, Atari, 3DO, Sony) to market or having an answer for every piece of hardware another company releases (ex: PC Engine CD-ROM vs Sega CD, Jaguar vs 32X, 3DO/PlayStation vs the rushed and overcomplicated Saturn). He also would have to listen to SOA when they asked for the new console to have a familiar architecture, instead of making a hasty deal with his golf buddies at Hitachi. Likewise, it would depend on Sega of Japan's middle management not being so solipsistic and self-sabotaging. In other words, SOJ would have to be happy for their success in America and Europe like Sony and Nintendo of Japan were, instead of resenting their own success.
the xbox was not mend as a gaming system, but as microsofts multimedia center in the living room.
Microsoft does not want to make a gaming system, they want to take over the living room.
So the xbox had and has strategy value beyond and above - but that design by commite attitude also destroys the focus.
Sony as a multimedia cooperation build a gaming system - that also happended to be able to play music CDs (PS1), then DVD (PS2), then blurays. It also happens to play streaming.
@@madhatter8508 1997:Sega launches Final Fantasy VII before the holidays.
2001: Halo releases on the Sega Dreamcast
Man, that is some good production and research. You think the SVP could of bridge the gap between Genesis and the Saturn? The 32-X didn't seem to do so well from my memory.
+firehazard51 Yeah the main draw back of the 32x was cost and really poor release timing. I honestly think the SVP could have been a low cost option that kept the genesis viable for longer instead of the costly sink hole the 32x was. There was a ton of possibilities with the Svp but Sega had way different ideas.
Would it have been enough to save the Saturn though, doubtful. I've heard people like Sam Pettus say that one of the major reasons the Saturn failed was Sega's inability to create a good parallel programming environment prior to bringing the Saturn to market. Do you have any videos on the Saturn @HistoricNerd?
ActionX not yet but I have projects in the pipe line for it. I tend to support Sam's theory on that.
@@pupthelovemonkey "Would it have been enough to save the Saturn though, doubtful." Why would the Genesis SVP have been expected to save the Saturn?
It would not have saved the Saturn. What killed the Saturn was the lack of games carrying over from popular Genesis/Master System IPs, not the hardware. It had no 3D mainline Sonic game, no Mickey Mouse or other Disney games when the blueprint was there with Clockwork Knight, no new Phantasy Star when RPGs exploded in popularity, no follow-up to Eternal Champions because Sega didn't want two fighting game IPs in the early-mid 90s, no Comix Zone for Saturn, no Ristar, no Toejam & Earl, etc. Imagine if Nintendo released the N64 without Mario 64, and never made a Wave Race, Star Fox, Zelda, etc. game during the entire life of the system, instead creating all new IPs that were unfamiliar to the gaming public. That's what Sega did with the Saturn.
it's amazing how SEGA cared about 3D arcade ports so early, and then went on making the Saturn a 2D-oriented machine :p
Sega was anything, but predictable.
@@HistoricNerd They were stupid
Personally, I wish they had decided to go with the stand alone SVP lockon cart over the 32X. Sure, it's less powerful, but it's also much easier to plug and play, and I think there was still life in the old Genesis at the time. Also I would have included Virtual Racing on the cart, so if you don't have another cart plugged in it will play that instead.
That’s woud have saved sega .
No extra wires , no extra big old plastic , no big extra price
But no for vr being in the cart !Virtua racing needed to be stand alone . Just for the price point alone .
$100 game was a no no, people was saving for cd based systems , $100 was a lot back then.
If they had stuck to the original plan . It would been wonderful .
Imagine svp carts of doom, umk3, virtua fighter, super street fighter 2 turbo, alien vs predator , street fighter alpha .
Imagine vr not stand alone come with the svp adaptor for 100$ in the same box, boum!
Thanks for talking in depth about the SVP chip. I was aware of the stand alone device because I also read that EGM article. I do believe now , because of your own theory, that code masters had something to do with their own patent. Thanks for your input! What a great job!
SEGA loves attachments
LIL D 916 I guess you could say they are very attached to them. Badum cheesh.
coming out with dreamcast attachment called nightmare
and they say apple is in the forefront
I wish they had stuck with the cartridge instead of the 32x.
The shouldn't had done either. Sega killed itself with add-ons.
Each one had it's own ac adapter as well so a Sega 32x cd console would have 3 heavy, awkward, plugs. Basically needing it's own strip. Then look at the games. Besides NBA Jam, NHL 94, and Lufia, they were all terrible.
Yup, I had the 32X and CD, so many heavy awkward plugs. I didn't ever own any games which required both the 32X and CD to run though. There weren't many of those.
If Sega of Japan and Sega of America worked together instead of fighting each other and wasting money on launching interal competing platforms, we would probably be playing a sega console today.
If they had just connected the pixel output buss on the VDP to the cartridge port that cable would not have been necessary. The Megadrive/Genesis VDP has address lines for an extra 64K of VRAM and a pixel buss that were unconnected on the board apparently because Sega at the time didn't see a use for them and it saved them a few pennies to just leave them unconnected. Had they been all of the bottleneck problems with the Sega CD scaling hardware and the SVP chip would not have existed. The Sega CD could also have added external CRAM for an additional 4 color pallets and a larger overall selection of colors. The VDP supports up to 32,000 colors and eight 16 color pallets with external CRAM but it couldn't be used because Sega didn't connect the pins to anything.
The problem with Sega at that time was that the company lacks focus and specific goal.
It was internal fighting that ruined them too. SOA vs SOJ, and STI was having infighting on top of that!
I feel your channel will be hitting tens of thousands subscribers in no time :)
Amazing vídeo, pretty well done. Well edited, well narrated
Eric P. Alvaro Thank you for that. I hope to keep improving my content.
I have no idea why i havent seen your videos sooner but as soon as this one was recommened and i watched it, call me subscribed!
Amazing level of research here - loved that Codemasters patent that you uncovered at the end!
Thanks, I appreciate that. It may not be the reason they didnt move forward with it but thought it was something really interesting to share.
Even thought code masters had a similar patent.... i feel that the main reason was still cost/the 32x concept. Personally I wish Sega just stuck with the SegaCD/MegaCD to reduce all this confusion.
neoknux009 You are probably right. I just thought the timing of the patent was a bit suspect. Sega was already supporting a bunch of platforms and I'm not surprised the SVP didn't make the cut. I found that patent and I feel it adds a little more to understanding Segas thought process at the time.
neoknux009 Sega had a great opportunity to solve the color issue with the Sega CD in a 32x manner with its own video output and scrapping the idea of adding the scaling+rotation and the Motorolla 68k cpu, which reduces the launch price of the Add-on. Thus, utilizing enhancement chips in place of the Genesis, CD for scaling and rotation and other purposes especially for data storage and compression to use for the cartridge or expansion slot included in the Sega CD. All or some of the enhancements can be integrated into later models of the Sega CD and cheaper Duo console in 93 or the mid-90s. Also, utilizing CD expansion cart games for the Genesis users and vice versa for the CD with Ram Carts. Or they can wait another year have the scaling and rotation chip clocking as fast as the new cpu such as the Motorolla 68ECk. Or better yet, use the Motorolla 68EC020 or SH1 from Hitachi with a 32x like framebuffer into the transition to 32-bit era as a alternative to the 32x.
neoknux009 ...Or just an SVP in the cartridge slot and the 3D games coming on CD, if that was technically possible?
Maroon23 And some RAM, good idea indeed... Maybe allowing more colors on screen!
Are you talking about svp chip inside a cart or inside the Genesis Hardware? That will great to see the Sega CD Ram carts utilizing the SVP lock on carts with a stereo version of the PWM chip or stereo PCM chip from Sega CD with a ADPCM channel as well iif feasible. Also, add some more video ram at least 512 kb for the revision models for the Sega CD and Duo models. Meaning the already 256kb Video and the dual 256 Video Ram framebuffer of the 32x with a 32x VDP like bitmap display inside a Video Display Controller or Video Coprocessor with a video connector so the Genesis can utilize it like the 32x. Probably beef up the audio ram to 128 kb or 192 kb if possible. Also, they should have released a cheaper stock Duo system in 93 and hopefully a trio-system of the SVP and other minor enhanced chips to add with it if possible.
Yes I meant inside a cartridge like the Saturn had for RAM extensions. I'm no expert, but since there were CD 32X games, I don't see why that wouldn't have been possible. That would have been cheaper and simpler than adding a 32X in the cartridge slot.
All I can think of is when AVGN commented on the Genesis like it was on life support with all the add ons for that system.
The lock-on technology was also used for Sonic & Knuckles.
I forgot to mention that in the video! I actually had notes about that but didnt include it >.
I heard sega wanted to rush sonic 3 out to market for somev reason (xmas?), so they split the game in two and later released the modular sonic & knuckles cartridge that contained the other half of the sonic 3 's development content.
They knew even Sonic 3 alone would miss the christmas deadline. Thats why Sega decided to make Sonic spinball.
This whole video is a perfect microcosm of the biggest problem Sega ever and will ever have faced: tone-deaf executives shouting "WHAT IN THE FUCK IS A SONIC?" whilst snorting small mountains of cocaine. Genesis model 1, 2, 3, 32X, Sega CD, Sega CD/32X games, Gamegear, Sega Channel, Nomad, SVP chip, millions of officially licensed and officially retarded peripherals, towers of consoles that could be 7-layers high and require over a dozen cords, and countless other stupid bullshit hardware gimmicks that caused their game designers to never truly have a clue what in the fuck the hardware limitations were for any given game at any point in time. I cannot imagine being forced to work customer service for those coked up assholes and dealing with the biggest mess ever in the video game industry. By the time they finally learned their lesson and focused exclusively on making Dreamcast a good system it was far too late. Every intelligent person on planet Earth who also wasn't blinded by nostalgia said a giant collective FUCK YOU to Sega forever. I've heard legends saying to this very day some people are still so delusional that they think Sega could still possibly make a return to the console market with Dreamcast 2. The only sadder souls than theirs are living down in hell...
+djhenyo You mock the idea of Sega making a return to the console market yet Atari of all the fucking companies on Earth literally just did that.
Friendly reminder this is the same company that's been off the radar for like 30+ years and were so desperate for money they gave an Atari branding license to some crappy kickstarter watch that has absolutely nothing to do with Atari or gaming. Literally *anything* is possible at this point.
I'd love to see what a SVP or 32X version of Daytona would have looked like. Virtua Racing is a great card, sure the 32X one is the better version, but I still like to play both.
Looking at the aforementioned patent by Codemasters I was immediately reminded of the Aladdin Deck Enhancer.This patent was probably planned to make a 16-bit version of it, possibly to bring their own games on the console using their own carts. Would've been interesting to see, but probably just as expensive.
I didn't even know Sega had a chip like the FX.lol. Awesome video, man! I had to go back and look at the comments to make sure I hadn't already watched it while very very intoxicated.. I'm still not sure.. But I enjoyed it like it was the first time. Which it was.. probably.
P2000Camaro Haha. I picked the music while buzzed on beer so I hope that kept your buz in a good place.
Great video, nice work. I wish Sega never bothered with the 32X and just focused and ending the generation with a bang with highlight titles that got the most out of the vanilla hardware.
The SVP was a better alternative though rather than another really expensive, superfluous add-on. But really, they should have just made like 1-3 must have games using the SVP like what Nintendo did with Starfox and Yoshi's Island. What I don't understand is, why did they design the SVP to be so powerful if it would be way too expensive to produce? Made no sense.
It's due to the ROM size in the cart. I wish they add data and storage decompression like SA1 in the SVP chip to reduce the size).
Rom size of the cart? But I have Virtua racing in box and on the back it says 16megs+SVP chip on the back.16 megabits is only 2 megabytes, which the same amount of rom data that Streets of Rage 2 used back in 92.
Idk, I think it's because of how powerful the hardware inside the chip was.
You are right, just checked as well.
Retro Soul another things that made it expensive is the ram, also the pin count inside the SVP and from licensing fee from samsumg since Sega bought the chip from them.
In the video he said that they had certain games that were hits that had to work. They could not make it weaker.
Got a new subscriber here. Love learning about gaming history. Great video.
I remember reading about this lock on cart and being excited by the idea as VR cost a lot with its inclusion. I remember there was a segment in Sega Magazine here in the U.K. detailing the specs of the chip that made it sound amazing - and I believe it was written by Rich Leadbetter who founded Digital Foundry. Even back then he was into his tech-specs! I should see if I still have that mag!
Good vid BTW!
Thank you! let me know what you find out in that magazine id love to know.
They should have included the top slot in virtua racing and released it as an expansion card with a built in game - much more people would be interested in paying $100 for that. The 32x was worse in terms of costs for Sega, the Japanese branch should have stuck to their guns and pushed the company's president to dump the US-developed add-on in favour of the simpler and more cost effective project that the SVP was. The chip was more expensive than Nintendo's FX, but they'd negate this advantage by not selling additional silicon with each and every game like Nintendo did. This would give them a better profit margin (which I bet Nintendo had to lower in order to sell all those custom carts at reasonable prices anyway) and make their tech look better than Nintendo's.
Michał Pawlak that would have been nuts if virtua racing was expandable. I think my younger self's brain would have melted if I had seen that.
HistoricNerd I bought VR for the Genesis dirt cheap a few years ago and the idea of turning it into an expansion cart was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw it. What blew my mind was that this was a true 3d accelerator that didn't require any additional hardware to function on a 16 bit console. SEGA had geniuses in their R&D, it's a real shame there were so much yes-men and numbskulls in management and marketing.
I've always thought Sega's issue was that they had very talented people and not a clear vision for what path to take to the next generation of systems so they ended up spreading themselves too thin. They had a lot of innovative ideas but lacked the ability to fully support any of them. I can only hope the emulator community for VR comes up with a way to repurpose a chip I would love to see that.
Yeah, the problem is that if they were going to make it expandable they should have done it from the beginning.
But they kind of kept making the same mistake over and over... Charging the consumer extra for a large add on and then not having it be compatible with future ones.
Either way you look at it you would have been out an extra $100 for just one game.
Michał Pawlak is similar to the the MPEG slot of the Saturn or Superboy cart?
I remember getting a copy of this game in 1996 at a store I worked at. I was marked down I think 6 or 7 times. The final price (after 10% employee discount) was I believe in the 14 dollar range.
TheBlindingwhite I got my copy back when Sega ran a buy 1 get 1 promotion through kaybee toys so it ended up being a good deal I can't remember the other game I picked out though.
TheBlindingwhite I bought an import copy on launch day from ncx in Manhattan. Total cost 130 bucks. Still have it. Things could have been so different for my beloved SEGA had they listened to Tom.
I still have mine too. Matter of fact I still have all my games and system back to my 2600. I don't have a super large collection by any means but it's a decent little one.
Nice video! Very informative and interesting; I was just young enough to catch the tail-end of this era, but not really fully live it. I know this type of video requires a lot of time and research, but I'd love to see more content like this on a regular basis!
I have more videos coming. :D They just take me longer to produce because I treat this more as a hobby but next video is about 40% done if that gives you some hope.
good research. very informative. pure and simple. subscribed. keep the good work.
Thx for this video. I hadn't even heard of the SVP chip. Fascinating stuff.
very nicely done video! love the animations
Man, I love your videos.
Thanks! I've been really enjoying your videos as well.
Always love watching these vids!
+Retroware :) glad to hear it!
Very nice and informative. Thanks! A pity what really happened with 32X or SVP... one cannot help but wonder how many things they could be release with a better timing...
Interesting video! I honestly did not know Sega was working on yet another genesis add on. Kinda makes ya wonder what would've happened if they just combined this, the 32x and the Sega CD into its own console instead.
That's a neat discovery! You managed to photo finish a race to the patent office, and good one on you. This also explains to me why other companies never thought to make modular add-ons to their platforms - clearly, they couldn't.
I actually hadn't considered the impact of the codemaster patent on the industry as a whole. Which it makes a lot of sense because those companies were suing the crap out of each other all the time. Sega's Patent for camera movement in Virtua racing lead them to try and sue other companies over it. I didn't include that but I thought it was a really neat thing.
Yeah... there's a rabbit hole down there. I wonder if just randomly lookup up console patents at the time would lead to distinct points of interest in gaming history?
There are a lot it took me several days to pin down the SVP patent.
When I heard that Queens intro I couldn't find the Subscribe button fast enough. The videos themselves are good, too! Thanks for the solid Sega research... it's the best kind of research.
That is so sad. Imagine how much better our child hoods would have been if this went through.
If sega would have released the 32X about around 1992 it would have did well.But this a what if scenario,around the time Nintendo released Starfox,I think some history would have been made.
I may be wrong, but it seems like Nintendo did pretty well with so much games using additional hardware build in the cartridges. Sega should have done the same. ...instead of Stuff like... 32 fuckin' X
The 32X itself should have been a cheaper add on, no hassle. Those dang plugs required a special adaptor for crying out loud. lol
Such a fun time. I can smell the arcade and mall food.
Those things exist rent free in my brain.
That chiptune version of No One Knows though.
SonofSethoitae totally :)
Yeah I liked that too.
@@HistoricNerd Where can I find the chiptune song you have used in the video?
Thanks in advance! :)
Fo sho
Great video! While researching it did you come across anything to do with overclocking the SVP chip? There's been a few people who have overclocked the Super FX chip to make StarFox look smoother (it actually just speeds the game up rather than increases the frame rate) and I've always wondered if the SVP could be similarly overclocked to smooth Virtua Racing out at bit. I've done a bit of googling for it and didn't find anything.
I'd love to know if AM2 ever finished Virtua Fighter for the SVP, that's a game I'd love to try! In fact I'd love to see all the Model 1 games on the SVP.
From what i found there is an emulation community that has a lot of documentation about it but as far as my research took me i don't think they've been successful in getting the chip to do any extra system pushing stuff.
HistoricNerd Thanks for the info! Maybe one day there will be a MegaDrive flash cart like the SD2SNES with an FPGA to emulate the SVP (not that the SD2SNES does SuperFX yet anyway!)
Thank you for the video. It answered a bunch of my questions and theories.
No problem! Appreciate the comment!
It really is a shame that there weren't more SVP titles came out. Star Wars Arcade would have totally found it's way into my Mega Drive collection. And who knows, maybe even Doom would have made an actual Mega Drive debut, like it did on the SNES with the Super FX2 chip.
Nice video, my man. Every time you said SVP, my brain instantly went straight to Scott Van Pelt. Silly brain.
duuuuude... congrats on getting this picked up and seen! That's so AWESOME!! :D
+CaffeinatedTigress Thanks :)
Good overview of the SVP chip. Learned a lot about this game. I was unaware of its existence back in the day. Knowing that Sega had many projects going on the at the same time (32x, Saturn, Neptune, Nomad....), its no wonder they scrapped further games with the chip. I'd like to see what the Virtua Fighter game looked like. Maybe someone, somewhere still has it, yet to be discovered again...
I'd love to see it myself. Im sure its out there some where.
Great video! It makes me want the stand-alone SVP to exist!
After I made the mock up....I really wanted it to be real.
well, you know what that means? you're going to have to make one! lol
Let me get back to you after 6 years of Electronic engineering school.
sounds... plausible?
Hmmm Kick Starter?
Criminally underrated channel!
Thank you!
Unreleased SVP games in the Sega Mega Drive mini 2? (Wishful thinking mode on).
What a shame Sega didn't go the SVP lock on route and instead choose to go with the 32X. I think it would have had a better chance of success, with the lower price point attracting consumers reluctant to buy an expensive add-on likely to be obsolete within a year.
And Sega eventually went under(in the console market) due to bad marketing decisions. Like rushing out all these addons and new consoles. The Saturn wasn't out long before they released the Dreamcast. Not that the Dreamcast was bad, its the fact they pissed off too many people. They had great systems and games, but they needed to slow down a little and stick to one thing at a time.
But Sega was also not doing as well as Nintendo and did make more marketing mistakes. That is also another big difference. Sega just couldn't keep up to other companies, and then Sony entered the console market and dominated it, so the weakest which was Sega died off due to not being able to compete anymore. Mind you another reason the dreamcast died was no anti piracy measures, so it hurt game sales on the Dreamcast and helped kill the system. Nintendo did make some mistakes, but none as damaging as what Sega did.
Console makers in general tend to support legacy systems for longer than you might think; the 14-year life of the PS2 is a pretty good example from recent years. The difference is that Sega was actively trying to extend the lifespan of the Genesis through a fuckton of add-ons, and failed with all of them, whereas companies like Sony and Nintendo simply supported their older systems for as long as they did because there was still a market for them, albeit a niche one; it's only when these markets become too small to be practical that the consoles are officially discontinued. This is why a system as successful as the Atari or the PS1 could be supported for what feels like a ridiculous amount of time, while a failure as big as the Wii U was thrown away less than two months before is successor released. The only outlier I can think of is the Neo-Geo, which was supported for just over 19 years despite not being too big of a success.
Fun fact: the video game system with the longest lifespan in terms of support from its company is the Famicom. Lasting from 1983 to 2003, it had a life of 20 years, two months, and ten days.
Hell the Nintendo Power tip line was still up even when Nintendo already had new consoles out. Even the FDS had rewrite Kiosks in Japan still going many years after the FDS was discontinued, just because. Its crazy how long the Famicom and NES was being supported for.
I think they continued doing without consideration what had worked for them in the past. They iterated quickly multiple designs in the 8-bit era, so the Master System, one of the most advanced consoles of its generation, and pretty popular in Europe and Japan, was their second or third 8-bit console, depending how you count. They beat Nintendo to market with a 16-bit console, and that's pretty much the reason they could compete at all, else they would have gone unnoticed in most of the world. Saturn and Dreamcast are similarly very early entries of their given generation.
Kevster012 I agree to a sort. If they could have just kept releasing quality titles people would still buy those systems. More marketing wouldnt have hurt either. They just pulled the plug on software for those systems too fast. Yeah they werent selling but there werent any key titles being released either.
Nice video, good to see something about the SVP. A couple of small remarks: 1) at some point in the video you say "internal data bus 16 BYTES", whereas clearly it should be BITS. 2) later in the video you mention the Genesis "only generating 16 colors per second", which doesn't actually mean anything. At any rate, good work!
I think a standalone SVP cartridge would have been a better stopgap than the 32X. Make it like the Aladdin Deck Enhancer and include Virtua Racing for $100. Then consumers could swap out the cart with other SVP enhanced games. The resources Sega wasted on the failure of the 32X could have made a difference.
Great stuff! Loved it buddy.
Mega Drive Profile Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
great work! I love learning about hardware. I am super subscribed!
Dillons Rolling Western Glad to hear it!
oh shit this channel is similar to the Gaming Historian Channel, good vid.
Fascinating video. Was this public information back then? I never even knew about it and I read a lot of game magazines at the time... I just don’t recall it. I’m interested to see what other videos you’ve done.
As far as I know the SVP add on was public knowledge in the gaming mags but I think it was over looked at the time however
@@HistoricNerd I don't know how I missed it, maybe I was just so focused on the Saturn, but I love that gaming history is so dense there's always something to learn.
@@DrGamelove I honestly missed it at the time myself as well and I was obsessed with Virtua Racing on the Genesis at that point. I didn't find it untill I started researching the project.
Sega just flooded the market with too many ideas. I loved the Sega CD but never thought, I need another add on when I was still enjoying it. By the time I might have upgraded, the 32X was already bargain bin material and seemed pointless. Being a fan of both Nintendo and Sega there was already plenty to play. I feel like the FX chip kind of stole Sega’s thunder. Maybe that’s why it didn’t get much coverage.
Are you taking about bytes or kilobytes regarding the data bus?
First time viewing your channel, but was that a chip tune version of QOTSA "No One Knows?" If so, that's an indicator of a quality channel.
jo hn It is indeed
Man I remember that. damn it's been so like thanks dude the information was impressive
Love these vids, keep them up. I ended up getting a Jaguar over a 32x....wish I’d waited for the PS
didn't know any of that. thanks for the information!!!
Erik Sojka No problem! I wish I had access to more info about it but I don't speak enough Japanese to access to their patent office to share more info about it.
good video. the svp was always a interesting what could of been topic for sega.
David Steck Absolutely. I had wondered why so little was written about it. so I had to do it myself and discovered some really cool things about it.
First off, good video, you're on the right track. Nevertheless, the intro chip-tune is probably infringing on QOTSA's work (name of song, "No One Knows") and more importantly, a DSP a graphics chip is not. In consoles of the time, and up to the Saturn, DSPs were used as array processors in order to handle 3D matrix calculations, yet they could be used for many other things as well, hence the OEM Samsung chip used in the SVP.
That is certainly something I have been considering. Thanks for the extra info about the chip. I was trying to keep the video really simple in the explanation because I'm sure there could be a whole video just explaining the hardware more in depth.
No worries, keep up the good work!
Everything with Sega was Virtua... Those were the days!
Good video, but wasn't it called the Super FX chip?
+dubiouscubanx Yes it was. Not sure why I dropped the super when I was recording audio. An error on my part.
It is sometimes called "The FX Chip" for short, or even "The Mario Chip".
great voice, great edits, subbed
Great info
Thanks!
This would have worked and bought some time for the Saturn. The Saturn needed a year to get some solid games before bringing it over and charging so much for it. Add that to the SVP cart being overall cheaper to manufacture and cheaper price for the consumer while also allowing them the option to play any game they want, and you could have kept Sega going without them having to cave during the Dreamcast era due to losing money. Instead they would have made hand over fist. We'd still have Sega consoles competing with Nintendo to this day.
I can't imagine how horrible a Daytona USA port for the Genesis would have been, but I would still have loved to see it.
If it was for the SVP and Sega CD, it could have looked good. Only the cars and crew would be polygonal; everything else would be scaled and rotated sprites and background textures.
This video makes me realize how stupid it was for Nintendo (and Sega for one game) to have their co-processor chips attached to the game cartridges themselves. Yes, it makes it simpler for the consumer as you just buy a game cartridge as normal and you don't need to wrap your mind around an accessory that needs to be purchased in order to play a game. But still, having the co-processor as a mini cart that you insert the actual game into would have kept the price of the games that used it down. Hell, they could have sold it for cheap to both encourage people to buy the games that used it, and shut up people who would complain about being "forced" to buy an accessory.
fireaza I think it honestly would have been a pretty innovative idea had Sega followed through.
They didn't seem to have a problem selling any Star Fox or Yoshi's Island carts.
The Nintendo FX carts weren't any more expensive than regular carts, but then the SVP was much more powerful than the FX chip. I do agree though, that a mini cart attachment would have made a lot more sense for Sega!
SEGA strength was always to be half japanese/ half american and to provide unique games with both influences.
It was also its major weakness when they started to compete against themselves.
Very informative and entertaining, this reminds me a lot of splash waves channel.
I wish i was as Talented as that channel, His stuff is on an entirely different level.
@@HistoricNerd. Well it's kind of like when Weird Al Yankovic parodies somebody's music, you know they Have made it big. Well when a UA-cam channels Production and entertainment value starts to remind you of another good channel, you know you are not too far behind them, Don't sell yourself short.
@@HistoricNerd. I mean look, you've even attracted Larry Bundy junior to your comment section, not too shabby.
@@aarongreenfield9038 Thank you for the compliment should have lead with that. :) Im a big fan of Splash wave, watching his videos has certainly given me more inspiration for motion graphics.
@@HistoricNerd. 👍
Just found and subscribed to your channel, congrats for the well researched info, nice video!
Thanks! There will be more to come ^.^
Nice to know, I'm teaching videogame history and these kind of videos are a really good source of information!
That's awesome! Just a heads up my theory at the end isn't 100% So make sure to prefix that part if you ever show it. ^.^
Nicely done! Thank you for the info.
I am a simple man. I love Josh Homme and I love retro gaming. You sir, made a chip tune out of QOTSA, I have no words...
Nice video.
It is a fascinating piece of tech all things considered. I think it could have been the price that could've been the issue as to why we never seen any more SVP games. I only was able to rent Virtua Racing back in the day and I know I wouldn't have been able to afford the game as I was a child of a middle class, blue collar family and I'm sure my folks would not have wanted to spend that much to buy it either, lol. But it was impressive at the time and could have been a competitor for the Super FX. It was interesting to hear that they planned to make a Sonic & Knuckle type cart for it though.
Funny enough, many, many years later I was able to buy a copy of VR, CiB, for much less than $100. Can't remember how much I paid but it was under $100. that was a few years back so I don't know how much the game goes for now, atm. I would guess that this is an uncommon game within the collecting community.
Hands down best intro ever!
Great video, never heard of SVP Chip... strange because I even owned a Virtua Racing cart like that for years.
I honestly hadn't even thought about the SVP chip when I was younger but it wasn't until recently when I started to see some videos about the Super FX chip and I was like "wait did sega ever respond to that" and that was the genesis of this video.
Would love to see footage of the other concept games.
good video. subscribed. good luck on the future of your channel.
Thank you, There will be more videos some like this one but others have a different format but I Hope you stick around to check those out.
What's the name of that 8-bit song at the beginning of the video?
The Original Gamer "no one knows" qotsa
Somebody has to know...
The song is literally called "No one knows" by queens of the stone age ^.^
Subbed when I heard Sonic's teleport sound in the beginning lol.
I liked the idea of the SVP, as unified carts like VR, over the 32X. It didn't need its own power supply and video outlet, and it wasn't a new platform where consumers would feel burned by the lack of support, you'd just buy a special premium game for your Genesis alongside regular (and regular priced) games. It was just more expensive, probably wouldn't have made a return on investment, and ultimately didn't solve the Genesis color palette problem like 32X tried to do with mixed results
Great video, this seems to me like it would have been a far better option than the 32x....
Awesome video, and sad we did not get the SVP add on, or the stand alone Neptune console from SEGA.
Commodorefan64 I've always wanted a Neptune to be honest.
Imagine SVP lock on cart but also an optional Sega CD disc for CD sound the way Pier Solar shipped. Still a bit of a "tower of power" situation but probably $100 cheaper than the 32X/Sega CD combo.
"Only" $40 more? That was almost the price of another game.
I think it would have been a nightmare for Sega if they released the SVP lock on cartridge on top of the already existing 32X and Sega CD add ons.
Overall, this was a very interesting video about a topic I never knew about.
OMG i love your videos!!! Please make more!
Thanks! I got another one coming out in about a month
Hey, What happened to the Sega32x/SegaCD Video ?????
nunofelicio still working on it. Was deployed for a while wasn't able to work on content.
Ahhh Ok :), please take your time, thanks for the videos!!! They are great!
nunofelicio Thank you, I appreciate the support :)
Dark grey smashed text on noisy mostly-black background... genius!
your video shed light on to my history and past your videos enlighten me your videos are intelligent piss on it you rock