Why Didn't THRANDUIL, GLORFINDEL, ELROND or GALADRIEL Join the Fellowship? | Middle Earth Lore
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2021
- Thranduil, Glorfindel, Elrond and Galadriel were arguably the most powerful elves alive during the War of the ring, so why didn't they join the Fellowship in their quest to destroy the one Ring? Lets discuss!
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#LordoftheRingsLore #Thranduil #Glorfindel - Розваги
So glorfindel wasn't in the fellowship the same reason gandalf is always being sidelined, because he'd just solve all the groups problems.
Pretty much lmao.
Kind of the opposite. Sauron would see Glorfindel coming miles away. He is not powerful enough to withstand the entire might of Mordor. That and imagine the risks of Glorfindel becoming corrupted by the ring
@@MrKingYuji same argument can be made about Gandaulf
@@retrogradebolide2198 Gandalf is an old man that ages slowly. He is not a super powerful high elf that radiates life. Gandalf’s spiritual past is irrelevant to the story; he is an incarnation so regardless of where he comes from he is an old man
@@MrKingYuji gandalf is a maiar. He is equal in status to sauron. Gandalf if corrupted by the ring would become an equally threatening presence. He only appears less possible because when given his mission the wizards were specifically told that they could not use raw power to defeat sauron but were meant to try and rally the people of middle earth to defend themselves
Galadriel, Elrond, and Thranduil were busy protecting their own lands. It is likely that in their absence Lothlorien, Rivendell, and the Elven realm in Mirkwood would have fallen. And while these strongholds held, Sauron's attention and forces were in part diverted from both his own lands and from the war to the south
So true. Too many forget there was a war going on against both Lothlorian and mirkwood at the same time once battles began.
I agree with this statement. I also believe it was primarily the task of men to defeat Sauron in order to take their place as the leaders of the free peoples. The Elves were fading at this point, and the destruction of the one ring would remove the power of the Elven rings, thereby removing their protection.
Galadriel and Elrond were protecting their elf kingdoms with the elven rings. Thranduil was protecting Mirkwood and keeping an eye on Gundabad. If Glorfindel went with the company it would have alerted Sauron that something major was happening.
Glorfindel is many things, but subtle isn't one of them. He's roughly as strong as pre rebirth Gandalf, but can't hide his power as well. He attracts too much attention.
@@12jswilson Could use him as a decoy though. Away from the rest to draw the enemy away from them.
surely elrond could’ve slipped him into the siege of helms deep and just let him solo hold the bridge leading to the keep
Glorfindel is my favorite character from the books, video about him would be amazing!
I second this!
Hopefully Amazon does a good job with him
@@Jurtian Honestly, I'm afraid of Amazon ruining the story... I hope I'm wrong. And it would be great to see him on the screen
@@glorfindel0305 that's true, but I am hoping it's good
Mine too! 😉
In fact, Elrond was thinking about including Glorfindel into the fellowship and decided against it. There is a paragraph about this particulair topic in the book.
The funny thing about Glorfindel is that he was given his (imo extremely fascinating) backstory because Tolkien realised he had two charachters with the same name and similar traits. One killed a Balrog, one saved Frodo at the Ford's of Bruinen (sp?). So with a quick bit of retconning, Tolkien turned two badass characters into arguably the coolest of his creations...
I doubt it was tetconning. My interpretation is he always wanted the elves to reincarnate.
@@simonmorris4226 Well, Tolkien said it was, so how do you interpret it differently?
@@simonmorris4226 True but Glorfindel was specifically chosen by Manwë to be resurrected and sent back to Middle-Earth.
@@simonmorris4226 It's not 'retconning' in the modern sense when productions try to fit a square peg into a round plot hole in an endeavor to make awkward story lines or character backstories fit a new very different script, often failing in the process when much of the qualities that made the original story a success is lost in the process. However, it is _retroactive continuity_ by definition in that Tolkien modified a character's backstory to fuse with another by incorporating the other's originally earlier history. So, in a loose sense it is but I guess that's debatable.
nah..Fingolfin still more badass than Glorfindel.
they didn’t use force through numbers bc they lost that chance to do so bc of saruman (who was already looking for the one ring). they could’ve done that but not at the time of the LOTR bc sauron was already too strong. it is stated clearly (don’t remember where) that the 5 wizards + elven lords could’ve dealt with sauron directly at a certain time. but saruman advised them not to do that. gandalf opposed saruman on this occasion.
Yes, it was in regards of the White Council. A quick google makes clear of what transpired.
In Third Age 2851, Gandalf discovered that the Necromancer of Dol Guldur was Sauron. Back then, the combined force of the powers you mentioned could have dealt with Sauron.
Saruman said, meh, not worth it and delayed action until TA 2941, giving Sauron 90 years worth of preparations, the sucker. The rest is history.
It's also that battles between supremely powerful beings such as maia tand to cause cataclysmic destruction, and the council didn't want that if it could be avoided.
All of those near Maia-tier beings together, within reaching distance of the ring? They wouldn't have made it through the front door of Rivendel.
The ring has a greater effect the more powerful you are, and would have played havoc with feelings of doubt, paranoia and rivalry.
I don't think it would be straight away but it wouldn't take long. Thranduil will probably be the first to fall Elrond and the others have a stronger will I believe but although thranduil is strong id give him a month or so before the ring works on his mind
@@ImMarley Maybe, Thranduil seems the weaker, but that may give him some tiny measure of protection as the ring will turn their strength against them. He may also not see himself as the inevitable choice to take the ring in that company and that's one weakness less for the ring to exploit.
I posit that Galadriel may be the first. She's learned to face her pride and get a handle on it, but I have the feeling that it's a conscious thing. And that be be stripped away in the vicious cycle of hubris and paranoia that the ring, in that company, will unleash.
I think Glorfindel will be the last, he was tested the deepest already, normally I'd say this may cause complacency, but he was tested, and then judged and sent back.
@@exharkhun5605 I also would put a coin on Galadriel to fell first to ring. According to Sillmarillion she was not only following the Feanor uprising, but also she has been actively leading it (in other sources she refuses to take part in the Feanor's oath). But for only that part - she is also a potent victim to curse of the ring. She has been alredy marked by Manve curse of kinslayers, as other Noldors, who followed the Feanors sons... But for unknown reasons the curse in her lay dormant.
I think this is why she is the most weak part of that four, and the ring should easly exploit the dormant Manve curse in her...
You could see how the Ring was affecting those at the Council of Elrond , and these weren’t the strongest or most powerful people around … if all those hero like elves were around the Ring at one time , I believe your right , an elven death match of epic proportions would have happened right then and there , thus any hope of destroying the Ring would be lost forever
The reason why a powerful Elf lord would be easily spotted while f.i. Gandalf wouldn't is because that's exactly how the Istari was "built" by the Valar and why they were made to take shape as men. Unless they actually USE their power , they really are just men (If immortal and with an ainur soul). that's why Gandalf says he has been revealed for all who have eyes to see such when he used fire against the Wargs during the attack on the camp in Fellowship.
That's also why he then, when he returned as the white was MUCH more willing to use spectacular amounts or super-human ability. Not just because the need was greater, but because it helped draw Sauron's eye to him, as Aragorn did with the Palantir, and allow Frodo better chance to sneak into Mordor.
Would also be why Gandalf could REPEATEDLY sneak into Dol Guldur. Sauron couldn't really detect him anymore than he could have detected Bob the baker unless he deliberately tried and had reason to try.
Gandalf was basically just a human unless he deliberately wasn't. On the other hand Glorfindel (Not just an elf lord. Not just a POWERFUL elf lord, but an elf lord who probably saw the trees and was filled with the light of Aman as well as extra imbued with strength by Manwë himself, and "Who walked in both worlds at the same time and great power over both." would find it much more difficult to hide that, shall we call it "Aura of power and existence" from Sauron and his most powerful servants. It could be done partially. We saw that with Finrod in the dungeons of Tol-in-Gaurhoth, but in the quest all it would have taken was one glimpse to many and Sauron could have sent all nine with a HORDE of orcs to do nothing but hunt the fellowship. How long would they have lasted then and Glorfindel would have been easier to metaphorically and metaphysically spot than anyone else. Hence why Elrond first wondered maybe he should send Erestor or some other elf, not quite as powerful. Its the very usefulness of Glorfindel that would render him a liability ironic enough.
Elrond was right after all. The greatest chance lay in stealth and secrecy and Saurons own lack of comprehension of what they were doing.
This is leaving out all that you also mention that what if Glorfindel had fallen to temptation and taken the ring? It would have been as bad as Gandalf, Elrond and Galadriel.
I'd still have sent him to Gondor maybe to fight the war, but that was apparently decided against. Why we cant tell even if I can speculate, but this is WAY to long already:-)
Of course this is all in universe reasons.
Great video though. Lets get that full Glorfindel biography absolutely.
And Aragorn choosing to go to Minas Tirith!
"I'd still have sent him to Gondor maybe to fight the war, but that was apparently decided against. Why we cant tell even if I can speculate, but this is WAY to long already:-)"
Wouldn't this simply be because he was needed to help defend Rivendell?
Tolkien may not have shown it, but there was still fighting in the north.
@@Welverin that would be my best guess as to why yes.
Not to mention he might be needed to safeguard a last flight to the havens if things went REALLY pear shaped.
... Protecting refugees from destroyed elf realms was kind of his bread and butter after all😏
@@simonmorris4226 if I'm not mistaken somewhere, maybe in the unfinished tales, Gandalf explains that if everything went well his plan had been to split up and have either him or Aragorn going with the hobbits into Mordor and the other going to the war
@@SageKronsell That was my other thought as well.
He was just too damn important for defense to waste on a long shot hail mary.
Lord Elrond was quite clear on this.
It was time for man to redeem themselves and earn the right to I be the caretakers of Middle Earth and it's inhabitants.
For far too long the had Elves stood by man in this regard. witnessing man's corruption and decent into darkness.
The time of the Elves has past, any hope for Middle Earth lies in the will of Man.
It is ironic coz most of the issues in middle Earth came from Elves and their conflicts among themselves and with Dwarfs.
@@sheezy2526 "Feanor leaves the conversation"
Funny, because Elrond makes no mention about it in the books, and he would look like a massive hypocrite if he did say that to Aragorn. Hell, the trauma of elvish (Noldor) fuckery was so guilt-inducing that it was an integral part of Sauron's rap battle against Finrod.
@Gill Bates I dunno what you're on about, mate. The Elves have suffered catastrophic losses and have literally been fighting ever since Morgoth decided to fuck over Feanor. Sauron made subverting, and later wiping out, elves his top priority during the second age. I also have no idea why you think elves created this mess, when the Numenoreans happily threw themselves into Sauron's hands. Hell, there isn't a single elf who condemns men in the books; Elrond raised Aragorn after all.
@Gill Bates The War of the Elves and Sauron had Sauron winning. The Last Alliance saw the destruction of two thirds of the Silvan forces and the death of Gil-galad. In the Third Age, the elves were locked down by Sauron's other armies in Dol Guldur. Hell, Thranduil and Galadriel had him as a neighbor.
The reason no mighty Elves were part of the Nine Walkers was 1. Elrond himself said at the Council of Elrond that even if he had a host of Elves from the First Age, it wouldn't help the ringbearer enter Mordor. 2. The Fourth Age was coming and it would be the Age of the Dominion of Men. It was up to those who would continue to lead into the Fourth Age to defeat the last Dark Lord left over from the previous Ages.
I would love to see a video on Glorfindel, including any information on what he did do (besides rescue Frodo) in the War of the Ring and the other major events that happened after he returned to Middle-Earth.
As far as why these powerful elves were not included in the fellowship, here are my thoughts.
1. Yes, Galadriel passed the test but barely. The original purpose of creating the Rings of Power was to ensnare the Elves, which is another reason why all of them might be bad choices.
2. Elrond, Galadriel, and Thranduil were all leaders of their respective peoples. They needed to stay home to lead their armies against the expected attacks from Sauron's northern armies.
3. Sauron was undoubtedly keeping tabs on the movements of the 4 elves. If one or more vanished from their homelands, that would have attracted his notice. Gandalf on the other hand deliberately never stayed in one place for long so not only would his moving around be normal behavior but it probably made him harder for Sauron's spies to keep track of him. Much the same can be said for Aragorn. Yes, he was chief of the Dúnedain but the northern kingdom(s) were long gone and he traveled a lot as well.
4. It was a mission of stealth but of course there needed to be some power with the fellowship as well. I think including Gandalf and Aragorn in the fellowship created the best balance of stealth and power.
Who wouldn’t want to see a detailed video about Glorfindel? The guy is a legend even among the characters in the tolkienverse
Elrond was keeping Glorfindel as an ace up his sleeve should the war in the South go wrong. You should do a what if the Rohirrim never rode, or the Army of the Dead were never summoned
less an ace up his sleeve and more a last hope of victory. If the Fellowship failed, the only option would be for Elrond, Galadriel, Glórfindel and Gandalf to combine their power and hope that it was enough to defeat and bind Sauron. But the reason they don’t want to do that is because throwing around that kind of power can cause massive devastation. The last time there was a duel of Ainur, an entire continent sank beneath the sea. They want to save Middle Earth for the vulnerable hobbits and humans, not just for those who have the strength to withstand their power.
@@sophiejones3554 Have you actually read the book?
Gandalf actually says
Glorfindal can not open the path too Mordor by the power thats in him.
No name no brain
Read the book please
Gandalf The Grey tells you that Glorfindal can’t storm the dark tower by the power that’s in him.
@@seanmoran6510 Did you miss the part where she said "the only option would be for Elrond, Galadriel, Glorfindel, and Gandalf to COMBINE THEIR POWER and hope it was enough to defeat and bind Sauron".
No name no brain indeed, lol.
No. If Sauron won, the Elves would have left Middle Earth.
"This is a universe of complex magical system" this is interesting, and I think it would be really great to discuss magic in middle earth more because there's a bit in The Fellowship where the elves don't recognise what they do as magic...do they see it more like science that the hobbits don't understand, is that the same for Gandalfs magic? It's just different levels of knowledge or is is a tangible, measurable force?
As far as I can tell (and this is just my interpretation - Tolkien was always very vague and never seemed to entirely make up his mind on the topic), what Men and Hobbits lump together as "magic" is classified by the elves along two axes (that's the plural of axis, not the plural of axe): "wizardry" vs. "sorcery," and "art" vs. "power."
"Wizardry" seems to refer to the innate abilities of an individual, and they're no more "supernatural" to the person using them than flying is to a bird. "Sorcery" refers to drawing from some external source - usually the traces of Morgoth's spirit that linger in the very matter of Arda due to how thoroughly he corrupted it, though other sources seem to be possible.
"Power" refers to when either wizardry or sorcery are used to dominate the world around the user or impose their will upon others. "Art" refers to more passive or beneficial uses, protecting people and nature.
Neither of these axes are necessarily "good" vs. "evil" though sorcery and power tend to be portrayed more negatively.
Science is a method to observe universe through our five sense or to manipulate it so that we can observe it. Magic is a power as the word implies bit like a gravity. When peoples of middle earth use magic they are not trying to observe their universe but to utilize it like we would use electric field.
On paper if we could connect ourselves to Higgs fields so that the connection was strong enough we would be able to accomplish things that would be considered magic.
Glorfindel's story has always been one of my favorites. A video would be amazing!
Absolute YES to a video on Glorfindel. He is one of my favourite elves from the stories.
While those powerful elves might've undermined the quest through their mere presence, they would've made a great diversion to allow the actual fellowship to slip into Mordor virtually unnoticed.
It has always been obvious to me that when Mithrandir says "Keep it secret, keep it safe..." This was a direct order from the Valar. Sauron was so smart and cunning...the fellowship could not make it obvious to him. Glorfindel video would be the best. KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!
P.S. Thanks for putting the phrase "Build me an army worthy of Mordor." In my dreams lol
YES, VIDEO OF GLORFINDEL!
Also, SOLID points. 👍🏻
I'd love a vid on Glorfindel! I could be wrong, but I also thought they chose members who were already in Rivendell. Like summoning Thranduil from Mirkwood would have caught Sauron's attention I would think. Still doesn't count for Glorfindel, but I agree secrecy was their best bet.
It all is consistent with Gandalf’s stated strategy. The mighty of the West distracted Sauron so he spent his strength looking hither and thither. If you read the passage in the Council of Elrond and the subsequent aftermath of the Battle of Pellenor Fields. The story arc becomes quite obvious.
Indeed, it's quite possible Sauron was looking at various powerful characters including (but not limited to), Saruman, Glorfindel, Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf to be the one to claim the Ring as their own and to challenge him with it. Being power-hungry and wishing for dominion himself, it's possible he could not conceive that anyone would do anything different to that. Aragorn added himself to that list when he revealed himself as Isildur's Heir and wrested the palantir to his will.
Having most of these powerful enemies of Sauron not with the Fellowship in the end (and, if you consider it, Gandalf too was not with Frodo and Sam in Mordor) helped to focus Sauron's attention exactly where it was needed...not on the Ringbearer.
Few hours into two towers on an audiobook run of the trilogy. Gandalf tells aragorn that the tide is turning because frodo is still alive and sauron still hasnt even imagined that they are trying to destroy him and not replace him. So you're totally right
@@421less1 Great point (even if you do reference the audiobook).
@@dolam audiobooks are a wicked platform, especially for people who drive professionally and dont have a few months to commit to sitting down and readingthe trilogy. Lots of talented voice actors do excellent jobs bringing the characters to life and modern sound effects all enhance the story.
Don't be a purist nerd snob. They suck worse than ball cancer.
@@421less1 Yeah, that was a snide comment. I have listened to The Silmarillian many times on UA-cam so that is a fair point. I apologize.
Thank you for your last point, this is much appreciated. So many people forget this is a book! I feel the same about the famous eagles: yes there are many internal explanations, but the first one is that if the eagles just took Frodo on their back and flew to Mount Doom, well there would be no story, and no book to tell it.
The eagles couldnt just fly to Mount Doom in the beginning because of Sauron's power. By the time the eagles saved Frodo and Sam the one ring had already been destroyed along with Sauron's power
I think that if Glorfindel was in the fellowship, they would’ve all gotten out of Moria alive. Glorfindel and Gandalf vs the balrog would’ve been no match in my opinion. We wouldn’t have Gandalf die and be reborn as Gandalf the White if Glorfindel is in the fellowship. Chances are the fellowship wouldn’t have broken up or at least not when they did. I agree with Tolkien’s choice to keep him out. Many of the characters wouldn’t have had the same development with Glorfindel as a member.
No I do think Gandalf would still have fought The Balrog Alone and told Glorfindel to take the Fellowship and Run. The mission is to get the Ring bearer out of there and it is best to still keep someone powerful enough to fight the Balrog with the Group.
@@Historyfan476AD I believe Glorfindel would’ve fought it then if that were the case. Considering his history with fighting balrogs. Gandalf didn’t understand it was a balrog attacking him at first.
@@TheMasonK No I am sure he Did realise what it was first time. I doubt Gandalf facing such a powerful Foe would Allow his Friend Glorfindel to face a Balrog again. Last time it killed him.
@@Historyfan476AD if you read the text you’d know he didn’t.
Glorfindel also knew he had the most experience by far fighting balrogs.
Glorfindal is my favorite out of all the side characters.
Glorfindal video yes!
My theory would be that the mightier a creature you are, the stronger pull you'll have to the ring, and the more threat you'll present if you use it. So hobbits are best suited for the job - it takes long years for the ring to get a firm grip on them. Then it would be dwarves who can better resist the power of the ring, followed by dark elves and men. Legolas in not yet in his full power as he's "relatively" young, Aragorn is just really strong-willed. Gandalf is obviously an exception, for some reason we can think of (some Valar magic over him or whatever). So if we had a party built of / including high elves and their descendants, or really powerful amari elves, the ring would very soon corrupt them all, and they would start fighting among themselves (and kill the others) for its possession and then wreck havok upon Middle Earth. In the fellowship we have a company of creatures able enough to carry out the task in question but harmless enough (like Gollum) in case the ring overpowers them.
Few reasons, in my most humble of opinions; it was the time of men, the fellowship needed stealth, the bigger players on Middle Earth were often engaged in providing distractions (Gondor, journey/battle at/to the gate for example), the ring was only part of the overall battle (Dol Guldor, Assault on the Last Home, Assault on Lorien, Assault on Thranduil plus all the other battles in the background while the ring was underway).
The Elvenking is one of my favorite characters man! I love him and I really enjoyed his representation in the hobbit plus he’s beautiful hahahahaha 😂
I'd love to see a video actually any history I am fascinated by. I am so happy I found this channel!!!
I would have liked to see the 3 elven lords more involved with military action. Like Elrond fighting in the last battle, thranduill helping the dwarves fight against Sauron and Galadriel also helping
I think the out-of-universe explanation is as important as the in-universe one, specially for Glorfindel. As you've said, he's so powerful he would have striped many moments of their tension and dramatism. The easiest example is, if he had defeated a Balrog once, why not doing it again, specially now that he was even more powerful than before. That fact would have been horrible for the stroy in so many levles. It would have undermined his own past sacrifice, because killing a Balrog would pass to be something that he could do whenever, instad of an act of heroism to his people. It would have undermined the Balrog itself, who gould go from a mini-boss the Fellowship could never match to just another enemy. And it would, of course, compleatly change the story, since the pass through the mines would not be a turning point where one of the most important members of the story unexpectedly dies in the first book/movie.
Love that intro (bring me an army worthy of mordor) absolutely fantastic spot on Love it
"Build me an army, worthy of The Broken Sword." Love your channel brother, happy to subscribe.
Thanks for the video; I hope you feel better soon!
I would love to see a video about Glorfindel!! He is such an awesome character!
Also, consider what Sauron would have thought if he did see the Fellowship: Gandalf and Aragorn (the most powerful members of the Fellowship) could be expected to head south to participate in the war---Aragorn was the king of Gondor, and Gandalf's job was to oppose Sauron---so that wouldn't have raised any suspicions. Boromir also had every reason to return home, and Legolas and Gimli could be viewed as emissaries or symbolic support. The only members of the Fellowship who would have been unexpected to Sauron were the four Hobbits, but four Hobbits isn't much more suspicious than one, and the extras turned out to be useful decoys when Merry and Pippin tricked the Uruk-Hai into thinking that they'd gotten what they came for so they left instead of looking for more Hobbits.
In contrast, Elrond, Galadriel (who wasn't present but could have joined in Lorien), and Thraunduil (who couldn't have feasibly joined anyway) had no unsuspicious explanation for traveling far from home, and Glorfindel would also raise questions.
It's actually mentioned in the book I believe that sending mighty elf warriors would mess up the stealth of the mission. I believe elrond and gandalf spoke of it.
I would also argue that all the charachters you mention (being wise elves of high renown) had grown too insular and somewhat indifferent to the future of Middle-earth.
Galadriel calls her people's fight with Sauron "the long defeat" and says "Do you not see now wherefore your coming is to us as the footstep of Doom? For if you fail, then we are laid bare to the enemy. Yet if you succeed, then our power is diminished, and Lothlórien will fade, and the tides of Time will sweep it away. We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten".
Whether Galadriel helped or not, her people would face practically the same result. The same doom. And although they don't state it outright, (as far as I can remember, corrections are welcome) Elrond, Glorfindel and Thranduil face the same fate.
It would be good and honourable to help mend a broken world so other may till their fields the better, but after thousands of years of living in a world slowly in decay, can we really blame the Elves for not having their hearts set on its recovery. Especially when they won't be around to see the fruits of their fair labour.
Obviously the reason given in this video is correct. A thousand Glorfindels would be utterly dominated by the sheer numbers Sauron had.
But ultimately, why would the Elves risk capture and torment for a world that had already started to forget them?
Would you rather face an uncertain future, a brave death on a vastly important mission, to give your kinfolk the ability to leave the land head to the undying lands? Or sit there knowing the possibility of failure means sauron probably kills you all as you attempt escape? Only a coward would decide to remain indecisive amongst a mission so important.
The history of the Elves, particularly the Noldor, shows they made any number of questionable, if not downright bad and awful decisions. But they never flinched from fighting the forces of evil and while their destiny was to either leave Middle-Earth or fade away, I would never question their courage.
@@istari0 Their courage seldom faltered, I will concede that. Perhaps indifferent was the wrong word to use, jaded is closer to the point I was trying to make. It's not that they didn't care, but rather the long-term effect on an immortal beings psyche.
I could be looking too much into this but Tolkien did say that Elves can die from depression. Is it too much of a logical leap to say that a depressed Elf might not be giving 110% into the restoration of a world that will inevitably cast them away?
Btw I'm aware that's the nerdiest thing I ever wrote 😂
This comment makes the most sense to me. Especially when you consider what Gildor Inglorion said to Frodo. Something like 'we are but fugitives and exiles on these shores and our people are returning to the west'. Also he said that the elves don't trouble themselves with mortals because they have their own troubles and their own labors. Gildor never actually said what he was doing but it seemed like it was partly maintaining an exodus route for the elves. Even Legolas expresses a great interest in leaving middle earth at one point. Lindon, Harlindon, Mithlond and Rivendell seem mostly deserted. After the fall of Eregion they wouldn't have much hope or reasons to remain.
Very relevant analysis. Many thanks.
I think the tension is a perfect attunement through the Fellowship being a reflection of the Nine, I still remember the first time I read LOTR as a teenager and being confused as to why more were not being sent to breakdown the doors of Mordor... I was always an impulsive teen that would leap, look and hopefully land safely 🤦🏻♂️
I was much the same , never understood why not just gather a massive army and break the Black Gates , my friends had to help me understand the time scale it would take and how Sauron would simply figure out how to counter long enough to get the Ring , all the while , the Ring would continue to corrupt those around it
I think the fellowship was perfect. I would love to see another movie with these 4 and even the wizards in an epic battle, maybe something before the original battle with Sauron
I can see Thraduil being in a similar situation as Boromir. He wanted to save his people, and I can easily see the Ring working on him. If Aragorn or Gandalf weren't paying attention, I can DEFINITELY envision Thranduil trying to take it
I have been fascinated by Glorfindel for many years. A video about him, especially working through his death and resurrection, would be great. I agree that part of the reason they were not part of the Fellowship could a concern about them being in close proximity to corrupting influence of The Ring for an extended period of time. Elrond and Galadriel might be fearful to use their rings when they were so close to The Ring. There also might have been a strategic reason for Elrond, Galadriel and Thranduil staying put where they were to address various threats not directly dealt with in LOTR.
Glorfindel and Elrond were the only ones at the Counsel of Rivendell so they are the only options available. Elrond was ruling Rivendell so that pretty much leaves Glorfindel. Glorfindel and Gandalf in the same company with the Heir of Isildur would of definitely brought more attention on the company. Would Saruman of thrown all his forces at the company instead of Rohan and would Sauron of delayed the attack on Minas Tirith to attack the company , I think the question in both cases is yes.
Not to mention Sauron knew that the ring made its way into Rivendell. I agree he would’ve absolutely dedicated most if not all of his effort to the fellowship which would defeat the whole idea of a secret quest.
Unrelated grammar nazi troll: Please just google the third conditional...the would have structure will make so much sense, I promise. I mean, would of...of is a preposition. Why would it be in the middle of the verb phrase? Have is an axilliary verb..it helps form the sentence around the verb. C'mon, man, I can se from yohr anglophone name that Englihs is your nstive language...think about it. Sry, it's just...it doesn't make any sense, the would of thing...no sense at all..apart from would've sounding similar to would of when spoken...although not to me, cause my brain would just never out would and of together.
@@dejanmarkovic3040 Thank you
Maybe Elrond had PTSD from Isildur screwing up last time.
@@dejanmarkovic3040 nerd
Glorfindel is one of my best character among all of Tolkien’s characters I would be great full if u make a video of him🙂
Gendalf used his ring constantly, the reason Elrond and Galadreil didnt go is because they dint travel that much so it would be very suspicios for them to leave their homes, where as Gendalf traveled constantly.
There are so many great characters in this universe they could make shows and movies on all these and plenty more that would be very entertaining
Yes please do a video on Glorfindel! One of my favorite characters!
Great video my dude! While i think it would been interesting to see how the sstory would've played out had these OP elves joined the fellowship.. the story is perfect as it is 🙌 (the only critism i have is that we've seen too much frodo walking scenes)
But that's why we have channels like yours, to theorise and come up with ideas.. basically fanfic
Great video. Thank you.
Elrond and Gladadriel were ring bearers like Gandalf. They were king and queen of their people. They were using all their power to shield them. Also they state that the time of elves was over. The time of men had come. For those who never read the books, the only Elf at the battle of Helms Deep was Legolas. Same the following battles of Minas Tirith and before The Black Gate. There were some who had elven blood but were far from pure blood.
cool vid Jake enjoyed it
Yup detailed video will be great😍👍 many thanks for current video much appreciated🙂👍
I liked those heroes where they were, it makes sense right, keep the enemy busy. Keep certain areas safe and hope that the nine succeed.
Taking such heroes out of their zones would make it easier for Sauron to attack them.
And yes, keeping the eye of sauron on other places worked out the best.
Though it was a gamble.
Didn't Elrond say that he would in other times have send an attachment of elven warriors. But, that would draw the attention.
What-if video idea for you to do:
What if Gandalf never fell at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continued with the fellowship to Lothlorien and forward?
Just subbed...amazing channel!
I never realized Glorfindel was the same from the 2nd age, returned to middle Earth. Thanks for that information. I enjoyed your description of Thranduil. I didn't quite like his portrayal in the movies. In fact the movie contradicted itself. Thranduil sent Legolas to Rivendell to break the news of Golem's escape. Yet in The Five Rings Legolas parts from his father quite bitterly. Golem wasn't even imprisoned at that time. Legolas is sent to the North to meet and work with a Ranger named Strider. Are we to assume that over the intervening years the two reconciled?
I think it would have been interesting to see a side story of the four great elven rulers banning together in order to draw Sauron’s attention and provide the Fellowship time and a chance of disappearing into the mountains.
It would've definitely been cool to see these elves as part of the fellowship, especially Thranduil because he's my favorite. But I do agree. If they had been there, they would've gotten the fellowship out of tight spots that made the movies even more interesting and amazing.
Short answer: They would have called the Eagles, flown straight to the volcano and thrown the ring into the fire. The end. It was a plot device with obvious holes that none of them went- as you state, Gandalf went- and he pretty much was on their level, and wore a ring of power. Tolkein created an amazing story, and we can talk about the plot 4ever- I honestly think he knew of the plot holes, but chose to not address most, in order to make it more REAL, cause real life is messy, and doesn't always make sense. The fact that we're all still discussing this story is testament to his genius.
Well said. I completely agree.
Stop yourself
@@Football0Lover Do you have a problem?
Just as the eagles would not go anywhere near Smaug, the eagles would not go anywhere near the dominating Eye of Sauron. There is no plot hole. Just trolls repeating this meme.
Glorfindel yes do a video About him he’s one of my favorite elves of all times I feel his courage his bravery his willingness to stand up to any enemy that stand before him and willing to lay his life on the line for his people he’s kind and caring heart when I read about him in the SILMARILLION AND The Lord of the rings I just fell in love with his character so much so I say yes give him the video he deserves and make J.R.R. Tolkien proud
Video for Glorfindel. The Nine worked vs. the nine searching Nazgul distraction spreading confusion is always better than being a single point target.
I'm eagerly awaiting a video on the Dragons of Middle Earth, or a mini series of each of them
It seems after The Last Alliance the Wise resigned that the vanquishing of Sauron was a task ultimately appointed to mortals, especially Men. I got the impression the Valar agreed and possibly they felt this was the will of Eru Himself
I would like to see a full detailed video on Glorfindel!! He seems so cool!
Early congrats on your forthcoming 60K subscribership. Tolkien was always conscious of relative strength relationships between the forces of light and the dark powers. I concur with his decision not to include any great Elven lords or warriors as permanent members of the Fellowship. Gandalf and to a lesser extent Aragorn were sufficient for that task if 'big guns' were ever required.
Although maintaining stealth was a primary concern, I think a more pressing reason for such beings not to join the Fellowship would be fortifying their respective realms in a time when potential conflict against _two_ powerful enemies was growing imminent. It wouldn't make sense to be risking life and limb on a perilous and seemingly doomed quest. Logic would dictate to stay and defend.
In any case, all other reasons were secondary to the one Tolkien stated would reduce tension too far that ultimately convinced him to decide not to include Glorfindel, et al. Assuming he considered any other reasons. Definitely want to see a video on Glorfindel!
this was a great video
The composition of the Fellowship was also political: one elf, one dwarf, one man of Gondor, one Dunedain Ranger. A dark unspoken reason for four Hobbits: three spare ring-bearers. It had been noticed by "the Wise" that they tended to have an advantage resisting the Ring's evil power of manipulation.
I never thought of it this way when it comes to the four hobbits. Makes sense strategically, though.
Don't forget misdirection with 4 hobbits. It's precisely the reason Merry and Pippin were taken by the Uruks: they had no clue which hobbit had what Saruman wanted.
Mary and pippin where not planned to be in the fellowship remember it just so happened they where stealing crops when they bumped into frodo and sam and the nazgul And got pulled in to it all, I think gandalf realised frodo needed sam for his emotional wellbeing and in the end he wouldnt have done it without sam ofc, so dont think your theory on the hobbits from the council’s perspective is entirely however the outcome is, ie ring-bearers and saurons bait
@@lukerafa5344 In the movies, yes. But not in the books
Full video on Glorfindel would be awesome!
Would love to see a full video on Glorfindel!!
Bring on full videos on all these legends
The nine original was perfect!! Thank you for your videos on all of the characters!
Thranduil and Galadriel were busy leading their armies into war and much more useful that way as a distraction. Similarly, Elrond and his sons protected the North and governed the rangers while Aragorn was gone (and Aragorn had to go South to rally the men of Gondor). The only viable option to join the fellowship out of those four would have been Glorfindel, which was even considered by Elrond until Gandalf convinces him to pick Merry and Pippin instead (who ended up achieving more by accident than Glorfindel could have ever hoped to do).
I definitely would like to see a full video about Glorfindel :)
I'd love to see a full video on Glorfindel!
A Glorfindel video would be awesome!! We need it!
I believe there wouldn't be much of a point to adding those 4 eleves to the fellowship. Frodo would end up leaving the fellowship at rauros with Sam anyways. I know Galadrial, Elrond, and thranduil all have their own kingdoms to look after so it makes sense why they don't go considering the fellowship has Gandalf. But I wonder why glorfindel didn't help out in the war of the ring. I'm sure aragorn would've appreciated the help in Gondor haha. Seeing how elronds sons went to help I don't know why glorfindel wouldn't. Of course as Tolkien says he's too powerful and would make the story less tense but I want a more in depth answer as to why.
I would love to see a video about Glorfindel, I would also like to see one on Ecthelion as he is my favorite character from the silmarillion.
Would love a full video on glorfindel!
Another point to consider (which you touch on with Thranduil) is that most of those elven warriors also have realms they're responsible for. Ultimately, they all knew full well that the quest to destroy the Ring was a long-shot, hail-mary play. So they're not about to put all their eggs in such a flimsy basket, even though it's the play with the best possible outcome if it succeeds. Should the Fellowship fail, Lothlorien, Mirkwood, and Rivendell would need all the help they could get to face Sauron. Besides, strength of arms didn't even wind up being the most important attribute when it came to destroying the Ring, and it seems likely that such wise elves understood that from the start. Throwing capable warriors into the Fellowship would only increase it's odds of success up to a certain point.
A video on Glorfindel would be great!
Imagine them joining the fellowship with Bombadil as another addition
Omg 😁
Perfect as it was!!🙏🏽
I would like to see a full video on Glorfindel and a reboot of your video on Cirdan the Shipwright.
You didn't include the other powerful elf lord left on middle earth, Cirdan. He is one of the first elves born, but didn't go to Aman due to searching for his lost lord. He fought in the first age, was the original bearer of Narya, that he gave to Gandalf in the third age, was with Gil-Galad and Elendil during their final duel with Sauron and was the ruler of Lindon and the grey havens in the third age. He was so cool he the only elf who ever had a beard too.
Also the elves were waning. Their time in Endor was drawing to its close. They were passing the torch on to the dominion of men. It was up to the younger races to stand up for themselves as the Eldar already accomplished and lost so much in the War of the Jewels.
Yes to a Glorfinder video!!
Imma need that Glorfindel video posthaste. Thanks 🙃
Definitely want to see that video.
Well.......of course I’d love to see a standalone video on Glorfindel. He is my favorite fictional character of all time. 😉
Great video as always. Continue the grand work.
I remember a lot of friends, that never read the books, but saw the LOTR in theaters asking me why didn't everyone else from the Elrond's meeting go with them. LOL. I was like "yeah, good question".
I guess its safe to say if basing on a modern military standpoint the fellowship of the 9 was more of a tier 1 unit. A small tight knit unit with characters that are less known or identities hidden.
A video on Glorfindel would be amazing 🥃🥃🥃
A video with Glorfindel would be great!
Would love a video about Glorfindel
The fellowship was a stealth mission so I have always gotten that. My question is if they wanted to truly keep it secret the elves should have banded together with Gondor to distract Sauron completely. Instead the elves chose to leave and go back to valinor to let men fight one of the most powerful enemies of the elves. To me it seams that Sauron was the kind of villain only the elves were qualified to lead a war on. I always felt like the elves just said oh well let mankind deal with it we’re going back to Valinor
You are correct, the Elves had given up hope that the Ring could be destroyed because of Ilsadur’s failing the first time , and this is reinforced by Elrond already preparing to send Elves back to the Undying Lands before the Council … until Frodo came along , Elrond believed NO ONE could resist the Ring for he had seen it with his own eyes
Yes please go off more about the badassery that is Glorfindel. He's one of my favorites characters.
If they used brute strength, they would have to fight at Mordor’s premise. Mt. Doom were heavily fortified with a huge force, the odds would be much slimmer. Add in each had their own threats to deal with, so making a campaign would be highly risky. The 4 elves are also sovereigns. They have a shitton of obligations and responsibilities that cannot be ignored. Sure the quest supersede the overall importance, but by sending Legolas you play the optimized choice. Sending in an heir, is also the biggest symbol you can set. Almost desperate even… which it is.
Glorfindel would be much appreciated!! And in anticipation for this Netflix series, I can't quite get enough! Thank you guys for all the great work