I would really like to know more about the attacks from Dol Guldur against Lorien and how both Lorien and Mirkwood eventually razed the fortress. I remember playing The Battle for Middle-earth II where you got to experience those battles.
Were there two big battles between Dol Guldur and Thranduil in March, 3019? There were three big battles between Lothlórien and Dol Guldur. I would love to hear speculation on the war fought by Grimbeorn the Old and the Beornings during the war of the ring. Wonder if the Beornings and Rivendell collaborated to fight the orcs of the misty mountains.
The forces of dol guldor under, the Nazgul Kamul attempted to attack Lorien 3x but we're unable to penetrate in the forest, because the elves were able to defend their land and also Lady Galadriel, with her ring Nenya was too powerful for the forces of Sauron to conquer. Ultimately, after the fall of Sauron. The forces of Lorien and the Mirkwood went into Dol Guldur. Galadrie sngle handedly cleansed and threw down the pits of the fortress with the fleeting power of her ring.
Know this is not your question. Why didn't the elves raze Dol Guldur in 2941 of the third age? Why didn't they clear the Southern Misty mountains and protect them from Sauron retaking them? If elves had done this, how would this have effected later events?
@@AnAn___ they didn’t have the manpower and they had just fought a war over years and lost friends. Most sailed from middle earth after that and those that remained likely did not want more bloodshed.
There had been a steady drain on the Elvish population throughout the ages. This is partly why Elrond, Galdriel and Celeborn never bothered to take royal titles. There simply wasn't enough to be be king or queen of. Even Thranduil's title was a relic of when the Elves controlled the whole of Greenwood, rather than the small portion left to them by LotR. While the Valar can re-embody deceased Elves, they bring them back in Valinor, rather than returning them to Middle-earth. So every Elf that is killed is removed from Middle-earth forever except in very rare cases like Glorfindel.
@@JeanLucCaptain - Depends on how the Valar feel about any given Elf. After all, the ones that they approve of get reembodied fairly quickly. It's jerks like Feanor that are kept in detention in the Halls of Mandos. But yeah, their numbers in Middle-earth were steadily dropping since the First Age. Fortunately, Valinor is a paradise.
@@daniels7907 It is worth noting however that most elves choose not to be reincarnated. To be honest I do not remember anyone except Glorfindel ever being reincarnated
@@stepankylberger1971 - Apparently it's not that rare unless the Elf was a bad person or they just don't want to reincarnate. But the Valar reincarnate the Elves in Valinor, rather than sending them back to Middle-earth (Glorfindel was an exception). This is why we don't see it on the page that much. Elves may not (usually) die forever, but when they are returned to life it's not so that they can return to Middle-earth. The Valar have been putting millennia of effort into getting the Elves to not return there. That's why ships sailing from West to East are so rare.
They were defending their own borders from attack so they were a bit busy. That's also why there were none at Helm's Deep (though their arrival in the movie is one of the cooler moments in TT)
Can't really blame Peter for their inclusion at Helms Deep in the Movies. They probably wanted the elves depicted on Screen with more than just a few key characters but were struggling with how to do so, without extending the screen time dramatically. So instead he shoe horned them into the Battle of Helms Deep but hey it works, and for a lot of people it's one of the coolest moments in LOTR Movies. I know personally Two Towers was my favorite in the series when they released, and a lot of that had to do with Helms Deep Battle and the arrival of the Elves.
I never thought Elladan and Elrohir were sent by their father. But rather that they went by their own accords because they loved Aragorn and even more so they hated orcs because of what they did to their mother. Anyways, another great video!
Despite the remaining elven forces and kingdoms acting only in self defence and defence of their homeland they still contributed a vital role to the free peoples during the war of the ring, by destroying and decimating all of the enemies forces and armies out dol guldor and said fortress itself, rendering all of Sauron's northern force neutered except for the easterlings attacking dale, a key blow to the enemies plan's for victory.
@@AnAn___ Most likely, but by the time, they had repelled the attacks on their own homelands and sacked Dol guldor, Dale and erabor, had already saved themselves by routing their easterling besiegers in a climatic second battle of dale.
Sauron would have learned that the Elves were being called to the Valinor, which means the Alliance is about to lose thier best magic, and a good portion of their available warriors. Sauron (formerly Mairon) probably expected this if he learned of Illuvatar's plans while he was still a servant of Aule or calculated as 2nd in command for Morgoth. While Sauron learned from Gollum that at least 1 hobbit has his Ring, Sauron had no way of knowing the Fellowship wouldn't send His Ring to Valinor, then to the Halls of Mandos (to be lost forever). I'm pretty sure Legolas was at those major battles, & he count's as an Elf
Only Manwe and Mandos understood Eru’s plans so technically no. Also he forgot a lot of those ways after falling under Morgoth. He knew no good anymore only wanted domination and and perfection was on his mind during his time of ruling. He was so majestic with strategy, he didn’t care about sizes in other’s armies. He didn’t even know Gandalf was sent from the Valar. He honestly thought they fled and abandoned the world. The Valar wanted nothing to do with ring because they knew they couldn’t destroy it. They also prevented any reason to bring war towards Valinor.
@@nox5555 true but during the third age, the only help they really got was Gandalf and the eagles that were from Valinor. I might be kind of off topic because this is old so forgive me but yeah and they had the 3 rings. Sending the ring to Valinor tho was a big no in Manwae’s eyes I’m sure just because of what they had to deal with during the dark days of morgoth. What could they do with it anyways? Lol
@@andycoan2117 In the books, when the Fellowship got to Lothlorien, Galadriel had already driven off the first assault from Dol Guldur. They knew that the fortress was already preparing for an even vaster army to assault Lothlorien. Elrond also knew that eventually Rivendell would be totally besieged once the Fellowship left there. All Galadriel could do, was remind Aragorn of the Grey Company, which was Aragorn's people.
@@shauntempley9757 Yeah I meant in the 4th Age after Galadriel had left and Celeborn established East Lorien in South Mirkwood. Were there still evil creatures lurking...
Except, that wasn't why they didn't help. They didn't help because they were no longer observing an alliance of Elves and Dunedain. It's why the War that defeated Sauron and ended the Third Age was called the War of the Last Alliance. No groups were as close as in earlier eras. Even the Ents felt the Elves were no longer friendly as they once were, according to Treebeard. None of the races that were resistant of Sauron's reigning over all of Middle Earth were on good terms with each other. Division was the rule, not unity, not effective alliance. It wasn't a numbers thing, Elven warriors power level is such, that 20 Elven warriors of Rivendell added to the Fellowship of the Ring would have guaranteed a smooth trip to Lothlorien, rather than the awful trip through fallen Moria. Had Frodo had sense enough to tell Gildor about the Ring, Gildor and his band guarantees a safe trip to Rivendell/Imladris. As was accurately portrayed in the Jackson movies with Legolas, Elven archers possess literally Supernatural accuracy. The Book Elves are so powerful, that 25 archers with enough arrows and protection could fell literally THOUSANDS. So small numbers isn't the issue, it's that they weren't willing to help, and the men of Rohan and Minas Tirith were too stupid and ignorant to want the Elves to come and help. Less wisdom than the earlier generations of Numenoreans, would have been the way Tolkien put it.
@@jonathancummings6400 Don't think this is fully accurate. The Elves and Dunedain collaborated closely 1356 to 1411 or so to smash Angmar. Lothlorien, Rivendell and Lindon represented a majority of the coalition that defeated Angmar for an entire age. In 1851 Angmer was defeated by the Dunedain and elves. In 1970-1975 Angmar was again defeated by the Dunedain and elves. The Hobbit in 2941 was yet another example of an elven mannish dwarfish coalition defeating orcs. By tying up much of Sauron's coalition during the War of the Rings, the elves contributed to Sauron's defeat in the Lonely Mountain, Mirkwood, Lorian, with the Beornings, Southern Gondor, Minas Tirith. This said, if the war had lasted a little longer, perhaps Rivendell and Lindon would have helped more. Maybe Tolkien didn't get to writing about it. It would have been nice to read--at least in passing--about the contributions of Rivendell and Lindon to the War of the Ring.
@@jonathancummings6400 I think you overestimate the caliber of the elves left in middle earth at this time, the high elves were leaving middle earth, the last time they were heavily involved was the war of the last alliance. Certainly the wood elves of mirkwood were helping by helping fight Dol Guldur and in general trade with the Northern area so they weren't all "unfriendly." Most of the galadhrim were not considered high elves if I remember right. And they were not in enough numbers to leave Lorien and provide aid anywhere. The elves were weak at the time of Lord of the Rings. They literally couldn't help. The best they did in the later battles, was Elrond sending his sons and Elessar's new banner to him in Rohan. If we go by your logic of elf power, then the battle of the 5 armies should have been an easy win for the mirkwood elves and their allies despite orc numbers because there were a lot more than 25 elves at that battle. Particularly with all there support from the other 2 armies.
In terms of ranking powers at the end of the Third Age: -Gondor and Mordor were Great Powers. -Rohan, Erebor, Fangorn, Harad, and Rhun were Regional Powers. -Lindon, the Shire, Dale, Rivendell, Lorien, the Woodland Realm, Isengard, and the Orcs of the Misty Mountains were Medium Powers at best, the Shire only counts as a Medium Power because it is the economic heart of Eriador, and Rivendell and Lorien are only Medium Powers because of their ability to project Soft Power. -Bree, the Dunedain Rangers, Dunland, and the Druedain Forest were Minor Powers.
I assumed that they were either leaving to the undying lands or like Gondor when the Westfold fell, they were busy defending other areas… and couldn’t send aid or didn’t know about Minas Tirth needing the aid. I hope to see the cartoon as well.
I’m hoping that any future LOTR movies show us the wars in the north. Yes, we hardcore fans already know the outcome, but most don’t and the limited writings would give the writers and directors room to create their own. Even better if they could bring back Lee Pace, Billy Connolly, Cate Blanchett, and Marton Csokas…even though they’d probably have to be digitally de-aged.
I'd have preferred to see the grey company instead of the elves at helm's deep, I don't mind them being there it wasn't a huge force but it was a perfect opportunity to have the grey company since there was no time in return of the king
Well, spoiling what happens in the second movie wouldn't be a smart thing would it, and when they announce it as the last alliance, it was the last alliance up to that point. That's how it works, something is the last untill it's not. Eärnur was the last king of Gondor untill Aragorn, see how that works?
They were taking final inventory for the big move. Remember Uhaul doesnt come out for another 3,000 years, so they had to move everything by hand. They literally disassembled their entire city brick by brick and moved it by wagon, then ship to the undying lands. They were spread too thin to help out.
Same as the others. Battle for Lorien and assault on Dol Guldur. Possible unit types and such too. Maybe a few Noldor, who knows. Survivors of Eregion.
I would like to know more about the Elven battles in Mirkwood (and the impact on the Beornings too!) Please could you share how to access that gorgeous map you use in the video?
Tbh there were no elves at Helm's Deep either, well there was one but that doesn't really count, in the books. Those were added in the movies. The elves were going to the harbour beyond the White Towers, to the Grey Havens, leaving Middle-earth never to return.
Lorian and Mirkwood had their own battles, it’s Rivendale that always bothered me. They didn’t supplement the Rangers after they road south. The state of Bree makes that perfectly clear. I always felt that Glorfindel should have road with the Grey Company and the Twins. And I find it hard to believe that Rivendale couldn’t have matched the number of Rangers.
@@tuorofgondolin8235 K. Still does not explain or justify Elron, Glorfindale, and Rivendale did nothing to supplement the Rangers in either the defense of Brie or in aiding Eragorn in the defense of Minus Tearath.
@@nickschulte3915I agree. It's one of the flaws of Tolkien's story. It couldn't be helped, if the main Protagonist is a Hobbit named Frodo, aided by a motley group including his best friend Hobbit Samwise, and his relatives Merry and Pippin, also Hobbits, a wizard, Gandalf the Grey, Aragorn, the last indisputable potential King of Numenoreans, Boromir of Gondor, Gimli, Dwarf of the Lonely Mountain, Legolas, son of Thranduil. They miraculously succeed. That is the story Tolkien told and wanted to tell. It's very entertaining and also, EXTREMELY UNREALISTIC. What really would have happened was Gandalf would have convened a meeting with Saruman, Galadriel, and Elrond, once he suspected Bilbo's ring was the Great Ring. Saruman wouldn't have been able to defeat them all, but either would have openly declared his allegiance with Sauron as he did with Gandalf alone, or continue to operate secretly as an agent/minion of Sauron's. Either way, a plan would have been devised including mighty warriors including Glorfindel, and Gildor Inglorion's band, to safely get Frodo and the Ring out of the Shire and to Rivendell, then onward to Lothlorien, then from there to Mordor. Yes, stealth was required, but Hobbits weren't more stealthy than Silvan Elves, wood Elves like those of Thranduil's Kingdom. So a few of them accompanying Frodo and Sam guarantees no Gollum shenanigans and the Ring being tossed into Mt. Doom. No Sauron wasn't expecting this, he expected someone mighty like Aragorn, Galadriel, or Elrond to claim the Ring and move against him.
@@jonathancummings6400 that has nothing to do with what I was talking about. It made sense for Glorfindel to not be in the fellowship. That is well reasoned and well explained. The issue is after the 9 Walkers leave, and then again after the Rangers head south, Rivendell seems to do little. Maybe they were aiding Lorian and that just wasn’t mentioned, and that would make sense. But the Rangers past through Rivendell and pick up the standard and the twins. We’re Elrond and Glorfidel just kicking back with some pipe weed? They seemingly didn’t try to protect the north after the rangers left, they didn’t go with the rangers south, why not? What few military forces Rivendell had left are not accounted for and that seems to be a gap in the lore.
very time i hear "BUILD ME AN ARMY WORTHY OF MORDER" i imagine Sauron just got of the holochat with Palpatine explaining the next phase of his plan to DOMINATE ALL LIFE IN THE GALAXY lol.
It's kind of understandable that the elves might be a bit knackered, Cirdan was about nine thousand years old, Galadrial about seven, id have had enough long before that lol.
I'm a bit surprised that you didn't mention the conversation between Legolas and Gimli when the Grey Company arrived in Rohan after the Battle of Helm's Deep. Elladan, Elrohir, and the Rangers show up, and Gimli comments to Legolas that they should have asked for some of their own folk as well. Legolas sets his gaze to the North and says, "They would not have come. War marches on their own lands." My quote may not be exact, but it does convey that they already have their hands full, even if it doesn't go into detail.
Tolkien left out the War on the Lothlorean and Mirkwood fronts. Both degenerated into grueling trench warfare, with both sides utilizing unspeakably vile tactics against the enemy.
I'm not sure where you get the idea that elves had trenches from. The kidna war the elves fight under the trees is nearly the opposite to trench warfare.
Doriath fell to greed of dwarves. And then to the curse of Feanor. I guess if you want to blame it on Morgoth, it would be the curse of Hurin and him taking the Nauglamír from Nargothrond and throwing it at Thingol's feet
In the Book there were no elves sent to Helms Deep. There were two Elves in the Battle of Minas Tirith. Elladan and Elrohir, Elronds sons, rode Grey Company of the Dunedain and passed through the past through the Door of the Dead with Aragorn. Gandalf was was Wearing Ciridans Ring of Power. In the book Elrond, Galadriel, Celebrimbor and Arwen all travel to Minas Tirith and ride with the Funerary Procession taking Theodens body back to Edoaras.
Elven battles I’d love to know about would be the ones during the Angmar War against the Witch King, besides the famous one where Glorfindel declared the Nazgûl not dying by the hands of man.
I do play RTS game of LOTR series (Battle for Middle Earth, I think), and I also do play 3rd person action game of LOTR series where 2 sons of Elrond were present. and during those 2 game, the Northern part did getting really busy with clear involvement of Elves in the RTS game (kinda forgot the last battle, was it siege of Dol Guldur?)
Elven kingdoms, especially those of the wood elves, can no longer send help since their domains have been attacked as well. Many people don't know that during the time Gondor was attacked, it was not an isolated scenario; it was a simultaneous attack by Sauron on all his enemies surrounding Mordor. that includes the dwarven kingdoms and wood elves directly located in the northern part of his territory. Even the attack on Rohan by Saruman was meant to destroy the country and its military power to prevent it from sending help to Gondor as per Sauron's direct command.
Not during the War of the Ring. But Rivendell was attacked circa 1356 to 1411 of the third age during the war with Angmar. Rivendell brought reinforcements from Lorian and together with Lindon and Arthedain defeated Angmar for an age.
From what I'm able to remember The elves and the dwarves were fighting orcs and easterlings in the north they had to deal with gundabad and Dol Guldur. I don't remember what fortress but Galadriel used her ring of power to flatten and bury every orc enemy alive. We also lost the Great dain iron foot, who was of the line of durian. No orc stepped foot in erebor during the ensuing battle.
The Battle Under Trees. The Woodland Realm is more at the center of everything, and it could be cool seeing the impact on others. The Woodland Realm had close trade relations with Esgaroth, in turn tying it into Dale and Erebor. The Beornings lived close by. At minimum, the Woodmen should finally get a proper cameo.
Mirkwood… the “fell beasts” like includes the spiders and I am really curious how the elves fared against them when they were driven to fight instead of simply prey on the unsuspecting.
What is the image of 6:51 with the three, staff wielding riders of? That looks suspiciously like 3 of the Istari, perhaps lead by Saruman against the Nazgul...but when did that happen in the story?
Something I’d be interested in is where are the other dwarves? I know they were repelling Durin’s forces at Erebor but what about other colonies? Are there still dwarf populations in the iron hills and blue mountains or after the defeat of Smaug are ALL dwarves in Erebor? Surely that’s a bit precarious! Perhaps that’s one of the reasons Khazad dum was on their ‘to do’ list.
Pretty certain the Blue Mountains were still populated, Iron Hills is a bit questionable though, and there were at least dwarves moving from the far east and into Eriador
the scouring of the shire is forshadowed in the movies when Sam looks into the mirror of Galadriel, they just never went though with it in the movies as it would have murked the classical good ending you get by leaving it out. It is one of the more overlooked but powerful points of Tolkien that war never have perfectly good endings.
Firstly, the Elves were at the same places that the Dwarves were: fighting against armies near their own territories. Most of which were fairly far from Gondor and Mordor. Secondly, trying to unify all the various areas and get a consolidated army to Gondor when Sauron was already well prepared and moving armies about the area would have been nearly impossible. Lastly, the plan was to infiltrate Mordor to destroy the Ring and Aragorn only sought about bring forces to bear on Mordor in order to distract Sauron’s gaze from his back door and fix it on the front door instead, thus clearing a path for Frodo and Sam.
The elves had their own battles to fight. Both Thranduil and Celeborn were attacked by orcs. The Dwarves fought with men against the Easterlings outside the lonely mountain.
The answer is: Yes some did, Rivendell showed up by sending the two sons of Elrond, Dunedain reinforcements, and reforging the Sword of Kings. Other elves already had war on their lands so they couldnt send troops. Sauron made sure no reinforcements were able to provide assistance to Minas Tirith hence why Lorien, Mirkwood, and Erebor were attacked. The books explain the battle way more better.
Kinda wish they would do a set of movies or even a prolonged movie and show the entirety of the books, think it would be sick. Even tho the LOTR films are the best films to ever exist already
Perhaps the Elves were defending their own lands. Lindon, Imladris, Mirkwood, Lorien. And did not have any expeditioniary troops to send to Gondor? I know, a wild concept.
Well the Elves were going to help with the defence of Minas Tirith, but seeing how they got wiped out at Helms Deep, they decided that it was against Elf and Safety rules to help defend another human fortress. However the did contribute to the catering for the after siege celebration.
They turned into stone just like when in the book’s epilogue, where even Gandalf and Galadriel would be observed as statues while drifting into the nights journey to the shores where he’d smoke pipe with the hobbits and bring them back to the shire
The easy answer is that Lorien and Mirkwood elves had their hands full already. Those were probably the two largest population centers of elves at that time. It's unclear how many elves remained at Rivendell and the Grey Havens that could have helped. Not many, probably.
I think it’s one of Tolkiens small oversights just like his 30 Dunedain somehow patrolling old Arnor and Angmar despite these lands being the size of France or Germany while also being able to guard the shire and have the strength to delay the Nazgûl. Tolkien sometimes just didn’t realise a flaw and it wasn’t really a big problem to the overall story. Because at the end of the day Elronds forces were by far in the better position out of any to aid the free peoples. There lands shared no border with any major force like Dol Guldor, Rhun or Sauruman. We’ll also unlike men who must farm vast swathes of land to feed themselves and an army the Elves have far more effective cultivation techniques and literal magic. Freeing up even more of there people not to mention the vast armouries they would still posses as well the Elves may be few today that was not always the case and as such would have more than their share of weapons and armour stored away from the warrior of of the war of the last alliance and the battle of Fornost. Really Elrond should have more Elves in his land than any of the other Elven factions since his lands haven’t had a major attack on them in Millenia and his getting a constant supply of Elven immigrants who are slowly travelling to the Gray Havens. Considering these Elves aren’t described as fleeing or running or making “Haste” for Mithlond it could be argued that a few of them especially the elders among them may very well be convinced by Elrond to answer a last call to arms as many of these Elves would have fought beside the ancestors of the men of Gondor or even been saved by the men of Numenor. The reality is Tolkien was not perfect and he maid some oversights but the core of the story is still rich and enticing enough to enrapture it’s readers
While I loved Peter Jackson using Arwen to help Frodo to rivvendell, in the book it was Glorifindel who cleared the road of nazgul , Glorifindel was kick ass.
Short answer, The Elves helped ALOT back in the day and they been saying its time for the Humans to put their big boy pants on and fight for your country cuz we out! 😂
Asides from fighting back against the even more powerful dark lord Morgoth? Fighting during the War of the Last Alliance where three of their kings died? Asides from granting shelter and friendship to the ancestors of the men of Gondor? Asides from sacrificing their blood for thousands of years to fight against evil, to the point where they were almost completely extinct by the War of Wrath? Nothing I guess
People don't realize that the vast majority of the populations of the elves we're killed off during the first age during the wars with Morgoth. Even by the time of The Hobbit their populations were dwindling. By the time the events of the Lord of the rings, what was left of the elves evacuated to Valinor. Those that remained behind did so for the specific purpose of what amounts to a suicide mission.
There were not any Elves at Hem's Deep, either.That's just Jackson's bit of pathos, manufactured for the screen. The dwindling Elven race was exhausted and had faced the fact that Men would replace them. They were already leaving.
My stance: if the elves had not been engaged as they were, that would mean far more of Sauron's forces available to attack Minas Tirith. Aragorn might have arrived too late if there were enough orcs and fell creatures to overwhelm the White City.
Because of their pool Scotland definitely count as a dark horse, If they got to the quarter and knocked out Ireland or South Africa it would be the biggest upset of the tournament
THECHNICALLY THERE WERE! (No, not just Legolas). Elladan and Elrohir came with the Grey Company, and as they are both Elrond's sons and Galadriel's grandsons that means there were representatives from all three Elven realms present. But yeah, the elves had their own shit to deal with. Sauron may not be a very good warlord (and an even worse duelist) but he's not completely stupid. He knows how to sneak around his enemy's lines. Tolkien had been to war. He knew how these things worked. I don't hate what Jackson did (I think it plays better on film than what the books have), but it did kinda make Sauron look even dumber than in canon.
@@randomelite4562 yes. The elven representation was not going to turn the tide of battle: but the heroes had already arranged their trump card. All they needed was for Thranduil and Glorfindel to hold the line, so Sauron's forces couldn't escape their trap. Thematically, this was the beginning of the Age of Men. It wouldn't do for elves to have an large influence on it's outcome, but their representatives being present gives legitimacy to the human leaders: Faramir, Aragorn and Imrahil. They are passing the torch, and very consciously.
This is a silly question. They were busy defending their own lands! There were no Elves at Helms Deep for the same reason. The War of the Ring was NOT just in Gondor, it was all over/ Do not believe the Peter Jackson movies, they were an interpretation of the story, with many important bits missed out and some unnecessary padding added to 'flesh out' the story. Where was the cleansing of the Shire? There was no attack by Warg riders on the Rohirrim on their way to Helms Deep. Where was Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth? Why was Aragorn not given Anduril before he left Rivendell? Why was he not eager to fulfill his destiny and marry the woman he loved? Why was Merry, who was recovering from a deathly illness, at the Battle of the Gate? Why didn't Pippin get to kill the Troll at the same battle, like he was supposed to? There were multiple unnecessary revisions to this story, I could go on for ages.
I would really like to know more about the attacks from Dol Guldur against Lorien and how both Lorien and Mirkwood eventually razed the fortress. I remember playing The Battle for Middle-earth II where you got to experience those battles.
Such a great game
Were there two big battles between Dol Guldur and Thranduil in March, 3019? There were three big battles between Lothlórien and Dol Guldur.
I would love to hear speculation on the war fought by Grimbeorn the Old and the Beornings during the war of the ring.
Wonder if the Beornings and Rivendell collaborated to fight the orcs of the misty mountains.
The forces of dol guldor under, the Nazgul Kamul attempted to attack Lorien 3x but we're unable to penetrate in the forest, because the elves were able to defend their land and also Lady Galadriel, with her ring Nenya was too powerful for the forces of Sauron to conquer. Ultimately, after the fall of Sauron. The forces of Lorien and the Mirkwood went into Dol Guldur. Galadrie sngle handedly cleansed and threw down the pits of the fortress with the fleeting power of her ring.
Know this is not your question. Why didn't the elves raze Dol Guldur in 2941 of the third age? Why didn't they clear the Southern Misty mountains and protect them from Sauron retaking them?
If elves had done this, how would this have effected later events?
@@AnAn___ they didn’t have the manpower and they had just fought a war over years and lost friends. Most sailed from middle earth after that and those that remained likely did not want more bloodshed.
There had been a steady drain on the Elvish population throughout the ages. This is partly why Elrond, Galdriel and Celeborn never bothered to take royal titles. There simply wasn't enough to be be king or queen of. Even Thranduil's title was a relic of when the Elves controlled the whole of Greenwood, rather than the small portion left to them by LotR. While the Valar can re-embody deceased Elves, they bring them back in Valinor, rather than returning them to Middle-earth. So every Elf that is killed is removed from Middle-earth forever except in very rare cases like Glorfindel.
attrition sucks. for elves it REALLY TRULY SUCKS.
@@JeanLucCaptain - Depends on how the Valar feel about any given Elf. After all, the ones that they approve of get reembodied fairly quickly. It's jerks like Feanor that are kept in detention in the Halls of Mandos. But yeah, their numbers in Middle-earth were steadily dropping since the First Age. Fortunately, Valinor is a paradise.
@@daniels7907 It is worth noting however that most elves choose not to be reincarnated. To be honest I do not remember anyone except Glorfindel ever being reincarnated
@@stepankylberger1971 - Apparently it's not that rare unless the Elf was a bad person or they just don't want to reincarnate. But the Valar reincarnate the Elves in Valinor, rather than sending them back to Middle-earth (Glorfindel was an exception). This is why we don't see it on the page that much. Elves may not (usually) die forever, but when they are returned to life it's not so that they can return to Middle-earth. The Valar have been putting millennia of effort into getting the Elves to not return there. That's why ships sailing from West to East are so rare.
True but with humans…you just get MORE humans we win numbers game hands down.
That look of the elf on the right side of second row at 10:05 never gets old!
saw it 🤣
Legolas has arrived. He is like a giant one-man army.
They were defending their own borders from attack so they were a bit busy. That's also why there were none at Helm's Deep (though their arrival in the movie is one of the cooler moments in TT)
Can't really blame Peter for their inclusion at Helms Deep in the Movies. They probably wanted the elves depicted on Screen with more than just a few key characters but were struggling with how to do so, without extending the screen time dramatically. So instead he shoe horned them into the Battle of Helms Deep but hey it works, and for a lot of people it's one of the coolest moments in LOTR Movies. I know personally Two Towers was my favorite in the series when they released, and a lot of that had to do with Helms Deep Battle and the arrival of the Elves.
I never thought Elladan and Elrohir were sent by their father. But rather that they went by their own accords because they loved Aragorn and even more so they hated orcs because of what they did to their mother.
Anyways, another great video!
I always read it as they were given leave by Elrond and allowed to come help their brother Aragorn.
@@TheMasonKthat's a very good way to put it!
Yes they went for the glory of war.
😊
Could Elrond have set reinforcements to Lorian for the battle against Dol Guldur in 3019 of the third age? Or reinforcements to help the Beornings?
Despite the remaining elven forces and kingdoms acting only in self defence and defence of their homeland they still contributed a vital role to the free peoples during the war of the ring, by destroying and decimating all of the enemies forces and armies out dol guldor and said fortress itself, rendering all of Sauron's northern force neutered except for the easterlings attacking dale, a key blow to the enemies plan's for victory.
If Thranduil, Lorian and the Beornings had defeated Dol Guldur sooner, I think Thranduil would have joined the battle of Dale.
@@AnAn___ Most likely, but by the time, they had repelled the attacks on their own homelands and sacked Dol guldor, Dale and erabor, had already saved themselves by routing their easterling besiegers in a climatic second battle of dale.
A question I didn’t know I needed answered! Epic 🤩
Sauron would have learned that the Elves were being called to the Valinor, which means the Alliance is about to lose thier best magic, and a good portion of their available warriors. Sauron (formerly Mairon) probably expected this if he learned of Illuvatar's plans while he was still a servant of Aule or calculated as 2nd in command for Morgoth. While Sauron learned from Gollum that at least 1 hobbit has his Ring, Sauron had no way of knowing the Fellowship wouldn't send His Ring to Valinor, then to the Halls of Mandos (to be lost forever). I'm pretty sure Legolas was at those major battles, & he count's as an Elf
Maiar.
@@biggtruxSauron was formerly of the order of the Maiar, this is true but he was formerly named Mairon which translates to admirable.
Only Manwe and Mandos understood Eru’s plans so technically no. Also he forgot a lot of those ways after falling under Morgoth. He knew no good anymore only wanted domination and and perfection was on his mind during his time of ruling. He was so majestic with strategy, he didn’t care about sizes in other’s armies. He didn’t even know Gandalf was sent from the Valar. He honestly thought they fled and abandoned the world. The Valar wanted nothing to do with ring because they knew they couldn’t destroy it. They also prevented any reason to bring war towards Valinor.
@@Furb8652011 Well they did send out the greatest hero of the Sindar back to middle earth.
@@nox5555 true but during the third age, the only help they really got was Gandalf and the eagles that were from Valinor. I might be kind of off topic because this is old so forgive me but yeah and they had the 3 rings. Sending the ring to Valinor tho was a big no in Manwae’s eyes I’m sure just because of what they had to deal with during the dark days of morgoth. What could they do with it anyways? Lol
i absolutely love listening to you guys! you do great work. absolutely splendid.
"The time of the Elves is over. Do we leave Middle-earth to its fate? Do we let them stand alone?" -- Galadriel
I would love to know more about the droid attack on the Wookies….
Wait, wrong universe 😅 never mind 😂
More about Lorien and how the Elves dealt with the attacks from Dol Guldur. After that the Elven invasion of Dol Guldur.
I'd like to know if Dol Guldur was basically deserted after the fall of Sauron or what weird and wonderful things still dwelt there.
Please
@@andycoan2117 In the books, when the Fellowship got to Lothlorien, Galadriel had already driven off the first assault from Dol Guldur. They knew that the fortress was already preparing for an even vaster army to assault Lothlorien. Elrond also knew that eventually Rivendell would be totally besieged once the Fellowship left there.
All Galadriel could do, was remind Aragorn of the Grey Company, which was Aragorn's people.
@@shauntempley9757 Yeah I meant in the 4th Age after Galadriel had left and Celeborn established East Lorien in South Mirkwood. Were there still evil creatures lurking...
@@andycoan2117 Yes, there are.
The Elves had their own kingdoms to defend so they couldn't send help even if they wanted to
They could have helped
Except, that wasn't why they didn't help. They didn't help because they were no longer observing an alliance of Elves and Dunedain. It's why the War that defeated Sauron and ended the Third Age was called the War of the Last Alliance. No groups were as close as in earlier eras. Even the Ents felt the Elves were no longer friendly as they once were, according to Treebeard. None of the races that were resistant of Sauron's reigning over all of Middle Earth were on good terms with each other. Division was the rule, not unity, not effective alliance. It wasn't a numbers thing, Elven warriors power level is such, that 20 Elven warriors of Rivendell added to the Fellowship of the Ring would have guaranteed a smooth trip to Lothlorien, rather than the awful trip through fallen Moria. Had Frodo had sense enough to tell Gildor about the Ring, Gildor and his band guarantees a safe trip to Rivendell/Imladris. As was accurately portrayed in the Jackson movies with Legolas, Elven archers possess literally Supernatural accuracy. The Book Elves are so powerful, that 25 archers with enough arrows and protection could fell literally THOUSANDS. So small numbers isn't the issue, it's that they weren't willing to help, and the men of Rohan and Minas Tirith were too stupid and ignorant to want the Elves to come and help. Less wisdom than the earlier generations of Numenoreans, would have been the way Tolkien put it.
@@jonathancummings6400 Don't think this is fully accurate. The Elves and Dunedain collaborated closely 1356 to 1411 or so to smash Angmar. Lothlorien, Rivendell and Lindon represented a majority of the coalition that defeated Angmar for an entire age.
In 1851 Angmer was defeated by the Dunedain and elves.
In 1970-1975 Angmar was again defeated by the Dunedain and elves.
The Hobbit in 2941 was yet another example of an elven mannish dwarfish coalition defeating orcs.
By tying up much of Sauron's coalition during the War of the Rings, the elves contributed to Sauron's defeat in the Lonely Mountain, Mirkwood, Lorian, with the Beornings, Southern Gondor, Minas Tirith.
This said, if the war had lasted a little longer, perhaps Rivendell and Lindon would have helped more. Maybe Tolkien didn't get to writing about it. It would have been nice to read--at least in passing--about the contributions of Rivendell and Lindon to the War of the Ring.
@@jonathancummings6400 good description
@@jonathancummings6400 I think you overestimate the caliber of the elves left in middle earth at this time, the high elves were leaving middle earth, the last time they were heavily involved was the war of the last alliance. Certainly the wood elves of mirkwood were helping by helping fight Dol Guldur and in general trade with the Northern area so they weren't all "unfriendly." Most of the galadhrim were not considered high elves if I remember right. And they were not in enough numbers to leave Lorien and provide aid anywhere. The elves were weak at the time of Lord of the Rings. They literally couldn't help. The best they did in the later battles, was Elrond sending his sons and Elessar's new banner to him in Rohan. If we go by your logic of elf power, then the battle of the 5 armies should have been an easy win for the mirkwood elves and their allies despite orc numbers because there were a lot more than 25 elves at that battle. Particularly with all there support from the other 2 armies.
I would love to know more about the battles in Lothlorien!
In terms of ranking powers at the end of the Third Age:
-Gondor and Mordor were Great Powers.
-Rohan, Erebor, Fangorn, Harad, and Rhun were Regional Powers.
-Lindon, the Shire, Dale, Rivendell, Lorien, the Woodland Realm, Isengard, and the Orcs of the Misty Mountains were Medium Powers at best, the Shire only counts as a Medium Power because it is the economic heart of Eriador, and Rivendell and Lorien are only Medium Powers because of their ability to project Soft Power.
-Bree, the Dunedain Rangers, Dunland, and the Druedain Forest were Minor Powers.
I assumed that they were either leaving to the undying lands or like Gondor when the Westfold fell, they were busy defending other areas… and couldn’t send aid or didn’t know about Minas Tirth needing the aid.
I hope to see the cartoon as well.
I’m hoping that any future LOTR movies show us the wars in the north. Yes, we hardcore fans already know the outcome, but most don’t and the limited writings would give the writers and directors room to create their own. Even better if they could bring back Lee Pace, Billy Connolly, Cate Blanchett, and Marton Csokas…even though they’d probably have to be digitally de-aged.
I'd have preferred to see the grey company instead of the elves at helm's deep, I don't mind them being there it wasn't a huge force but it was a perfect opportunity to have the grey company since there was no time in return of the king
The addition of the elves at Helms Deep in the movies makes "The Battle of the Last Alliance" not really "The Last Alliance."
Well, spoiling what happens in the second movie wouldn't be a smart thing would it, and when they announce it as the last alliance, it was the last alliance up to that point. That's how it works, something is the last untill it's not. Eärnur was the last king of Gondor untill Aragorn, see how that works?
3:25 The Seat of Seeing...at Amon Hen
8:02 TROLLSHAWS, no less! :D
They were taking final inventory for the big move. Remember Uhaul doesnt come out for another 3,000 years, so they had to move everything by hand. They literally disassembled their entire city brick by brick and moved it by wagon, then ship to the undying lands. They were spread too thin to help out.
Same as the others. Battle for Lorien and assault on Dol Guldur. Possible unit types and such too. Maybe a few Noldor, who knows. Survivors of Eregion.
I would like to know more about the Elven battles in Mirkwood (and the impact on the Beornings too!)
Please could you share how to access that gorgeous map you use in the video?
Great work!
A brief mention of Elladan and Elrohir joining the Grey Company would have enhanced a bit elf collaboration during the War of the Ring.
The answer to your question of which Elven battles I'd like to see more of is yes. Cheers!
The battles of Mirkwood and Lorien I want to know about
I would like to know more about the battle of Mirkwood
Details are a bit murky. 😁
Tbh there were no elves at Helm's Deep either, well there was one but that doesn't really count, in the books. Those were added in the movies. The elves were going to the harbour beyond the White Towers, to the Grey Havens, leaving Middle-earth never to return.
Thranduil's battles.
Lorian and Mirkwood had their own battles, it’s Rivendale that always bothered me. They didn’t supplement the Rangers after they road south. The state of Bree makes that perfectly clear. I always felt that Glorfindel should have road with the Grey Company and the Twins. And I find it hard to believe that Rivendale couldn’t have matched the number of Rangers.
Just as a bit of FYI: It's Rivendell, not Rivendale. :P
@@tuorofgondolin8235 K. Still does not explain or justify Elron, Glorfindale, and Rivendale did nothing to supplement the Rangers in either the defense of Brie or in aiding Eragorn in the defense of Minus Tearath.
@@nickschulte3915 ...
@@nickschulte3915I agree. It's one of the flaws of Tolkien's story. It couldn't be helped, if the main Protagonist is a Hobbit named Frodo, aided by a motley group including his best friend Hobbit Samwise, and his relatives Merry and Pippin, also Hobbits, a wizard, Gandalf the Grey, Aragorn, the last indisputable potential King of Numenoreans, Boromir of Gondor, Gimli, Dwarf of the Lonely Mountain, Legolas, son of Thranduil. They miraculously succeed. That is the story Tolkien told and wanted to tell. It's very entertaining and also, EXTREMELY UNREALISTIC. What really would have happened was Gandalf would have convened a meeting with Saruman, Galadriel, and Elrond, once he suspected Bilbo's ring was the Great Ring. Saruman wouldn't have been able to defeat them all, but either would have openly declared his allegiance with Sauron as he did with Gandalf alone, or continue to operate secretly as an agent/minion of Sauron's. Either way, a plan would have been devised including mighty warriors including Glorfindel, and Gildor Inglorion's band, to safely get Frodo and the Ring out of the Shire and to Rivendell, then onward to Lothlorien, then from there to Mordor. Yes, stealth was required, but Hobbits weren't more stealthy than Silvan Elves, wood Elves like those of Thranduil's Kingdom. So a few of them accompanying Frodo and Sam guarantees no Gollum shenanigans and the Ring being tossed into Mt. Doom. No Sauron wasn't expecting this, he expected someone mighty like Aragorn, Galadriel, or Elrond to claim the Ring and move against him.
@@jonathancummings6400 that has nothing to do with what I was talking about. It made sense for Glorfindel to not be in the fellowship. That is well reasoned and well explained. The issue is after the 9 Walkers leave, and then again after the Rangers head south, Rivendell seems to do little. Maybe they were aiding Lorian and that just wasn’t mentioned, and that would make sense. But the Rangers past through Rivendell and pick up the standard and the twins. We’re Elrond and Glorfidel just kicking back with some pipe weed? They seemingly didn’t try to protect the north after the rangers left, they didn’t go with the rangers south, why not? What few military forces Rivendell had left are not accounted for and that seems to be a gap in the lore.
very time i hear "BUILD ME AN ARMY WORTHY OF MORDER" i imagine Sauron just got of the holochat with Palpatine explaining the next phase of his plan to DOMINATE ALL LIFE IN THE GALAXY lol.
It's kind of understandable that the elves might be a bit knackered, Cirdan was about nine thousand years old, Galadrial about seven, id have had enough long before that lol.
Mirkwood, hands down
I'm a bit surprised that you didn't mention the conversation between Legolas and Gimli when the Grey Company arrived in Rohan after the Battle of Helm's Deep. Elladan, Elrohir, and the Rangers show up, and Gimli comments to Legolas that they should have asked for some of their own folk as well. Legolas sets his gaze to the North and says, "They would not have come. War marches on their own lands." My quote may not be exact, but it does convey that they already have their hands full, even if it doesn't go into detail.
Tolkien left out the War on the Lothlorean and Mirkwood fronts. Both degenerated into grueling trench warfare, with both sides utilizing unspeakably vile tactics against the enemy.
I'm not sure where you get the idea that elves had trenches from. The kidna war the elves fight under the trees is nearly the opposite to trench warfare.
Doriath fell to greed of dwarves. And then to the curse of Feanor. I guess if you want to blame it on Morgoth, it would be the curse of Hurin and him taking the Nauglamír from Nargothrond and throwing it at Thingol's feet
Greed is a power of Morgoth Woven Into The Ainulindalë During His Discord. All Negative Traits Are Designs Of Morgoth
This battle was also a proving ground for Man. To unite and stand on their own.
In the Book there were no elves sent to Helms Deep. There were two Elves in the Battle of Minas Tirith. Elladan and Elrohir, Elronds sons, rode Grey Company of the Dunedain and passed through the past through the Door of the Dead with Aragorn. Gandalf was was Wearing Ciridans Ring of Power. In the book Elrond, Galadriel, Celebrimbor and Arwen all travel to Minas Tirith and ride with the Funerary Procession taking Theodens body back to Edoaras.
Elven battles I’d love to know about would be the ones during the Angmar War against the Witch King, besides the famous one where Glorfindel declared the Nazgûl not dying by the hands of man.
The distress email ended up in the junk folder.
Nice work dude thanks
Didn't watch the video as I was too busy going west in a ship to valanor....
I need a movie for the battle at mirkwood and loriem 😢
Dont forget erebor clash beetween easterlings and dwarves.
I do play RTS game of LOTR series (Battle for Middle Earth, I think), and I also do play 3rd person action game of LOTR series where 2 sons of Elrond were present. and during those 2 game, the Northern part did getting really busy with clear involvement of Elves in the RTS game (kinda forgot the last battle, was it siege of Dol Guldur?)
Elven kingdoms, especially those of the wood elves, can no longer send help since their domains have been attacked as well. Many people don't know that during the time Gondor was attacked, it was not an isolated scenario; it was a simultaneous attack by Sauron on all his enemies surrounding Mordor. that includes the dwarven kingdoms and wood elves directly located in the northern part of his territory. Even the attack on Rohan by Saruman was meant to destroy the country and its military power to prevent it from sending help to Gondor as per Sauron's direct command.
So, am I understanding that Rivendell was never directly attacked? I would like to hear more about Rivendell.
Not during the War of the Ring. But Rivendell was attacked circa 1356 to 1411 of the third age during the war with Angmar. Rivendell brought reinforcements from Lorian and together with Lindon and Arthedain defeated Angmar for an age.
10:57 the Lorien attacks
From what I'm able to remember The elves and the dwarves were fighting orcs and easterlings in the north they had to deal with gundabad and Dol Guldur. I don't remember what fortress but Galadriel used her ring of power to flatten and bury every orc enemy alive. We also lost the Great dain iron foot, who was of the line of durian. No orc stepped foot in erebor during the ensuing battle.
The age of Elves was fading, and was it not Isildur that could have thrown the ring in the fires of Mt Doom, but kept it instead?
Cast it into the fire!
Which character (or was it JRRT as a narrator) called the elven decline "the long defeat"?
Great video!! Cheers!
where is the background music in your videos from ??
the sore urge to call everyone a nerd for the severe knowledge of this story is growing but alas i am one too
The Battle Under Trees. The Woodland Realm is more at the center of everything, and it could be cool seeing the impact on others. The Woodland Realm had close trade relations with Esgaroth, in turn tying it into Dale and Erebor. The Beornings lived close by. At minimum, the Woodmen should finally get a proper cameo.
Mirkwood… the “fell beasts” like includes the spiders and I am really curious how the elves fared against them when they were driven to fight instead of simply prey on the unsuspecting.
Tbh I really never thought of why no eleven came
Thanks !
What is the image of 6:51 with the three, staff wielding riders of? That looks suspiciously like 3 of the Istari, perhaps lead by Saruman against the Nazgul...but when did that happen in the story?
It didn’t. It’s fan art
Something I’d be interested in is where are the other dwarves? I know they were repelling Durin’s forces at Erebor but what about other colonies? Are there still dwarf populations in the iron hills and blue mountains or after the defeat of Smaug are ALL dwarves in Erebor? Surely that’s a bit precarious! Perhaps that’s one of the reasons Khazad dum was on their ‘to do’ list.
Pretty certain the Blue Mountains were still populated, Iron Hills is a bit questionable though, and there were at least dwarves moving from the far east and into Eriador
the scouring of the shire is forshadowed in the movies when Sam looks into the mirror of Galadriel, they just never went though with it in the movies as it would have murked the classical good ending you get by leaving it out. It is one of the more overlooked but powerful points of Tolkien that war never have perfectly good endings.
Firstly, the Elves were at the same places that the Dwarves were: fighting against armies near their own territories. Most of which were fairly far from Gondor and Mordor. Secondly, trying to unify all the various areas and get a consolidated army to Gondor when Sauron was already well prepared and moving armies about the area would have been nearly impossible. Lastly, the plan was to infiltrate Mordor to destroy the Ring and Aragorn only sought about bring forces to bear on Mordor in order to distract Sauron’s gaze from his back door and fix it on the front door instead, thus clearing a path for Frodo and Sam.
The second Battle of Dale
The elves had their own battles to fight. Both Thranduil and Celeborn were attacked by orcs. The Dwarves fought with men against the Easterlings outside the lonely mountain.
The answer is: Yes some did, Rivendell showed up by sending the two sons of Elrond, Dunedain reinforcements, and reforging the Sword of Kings. Other elves already had war on their lands so they couldnt send troops. Sauron made sure no reinforcements were able to provide assistance to Minas Tirith hence why Lorien, Mirkwood, and Erebor were attacked. The books explain the battle way more better.
i think they fighting somewhere in the north against some of sauron forces up there.
There were Elves, there was Legolas. Gimili was the only dwarf there. It was mostly men, namely from Rohan, who came to the aid of Gondor.
which scene was that clip of the 2 elves fighting from at 2:15?
It’s in the bottom left corner…
Where were the dwarves
Next video should be this.
@@majornugzzz5424 I agree cause the movie never explained it and the books barely touched on it if I remember correctly
Beacause there were battles happening everywhere. Erebor, Dol Guldor, ever heard of war in the north
Kinda wish they would do a set of movies or even a prolonged movie and show the entirety of the books, think it would be sick. Even tho the LOTR films are the best films to ever exist already
Perhaps the Elves were defending their own lands. Lindon, Imladris, Mirkwood, Lorien. And did not have any expeditioniary troops to send to Gondor?
I know, a wild concept.
The attacks on Loth Lorien
Well the Elves were going to help with the defence of Minas Tirith, but seeing how they got wiped out at Helms Deep, they decided that it was against Elf and Safety rules to help defend another human fortress. However the did contribute to the catering for the after siege celebration.
They turned into stone just like when in the book’s epilogue, where even Gandalf and Galadriel would be observed as statues while drifting into the nights journey to the shores where he’d smoke pipe with the hobbits and bring them back to the shire
The trilogy left me scratching my head with the elves.
What might’ve happened if Smaug took the one ring from bilbo?
I thought that was a tank in the background 😅
I want to know what elf battle was the bloodiest and how did they recoup from the war
Look Up The Nirnaeth Arnoediad The Bloodiest, Most Gruesome Battle The Elves Ever Fought. Super Tragic, They Never Recovered.
The easy answer is that Lorien and Mirkwood elves had their hands full already. Those were probably the two largest population centers of elves at that time. It's unclear how many elves remained at Rivendell and the Grey Havens that could have helped. Not many, probably.
I think it’s one of Tolkiens small oversights just like his 30 Dunedain somehow patrolling old Arnor and Angmar despite these lands being the size of France or Germany while also being able to guard the shire and have the strength to delay the Nazgûl. Tolkien sometimes just didn’t realise a flaw and it wasn’t really a big problem to the overall story. Because at the end of the day Elronds forces were by far in the better position out of any to aid the free peoples. There lands shared no border with any major force like Dol Guldor, Rhun or Sauruman. We’ll also unlike men who must farm vast swathes of land to feed themselves and an army the Elves have far more effective cultivation techniques and literal magic. Freeing up even more of there people not to mention the vast armouries they would still posses as well the Elves may be few today that was not always the case and as such would have more than their share of weapons and armour stored away from the warrior of of the war of the last alliance and the battle of Fornost. Really Elrond should have more Elves in his land than any of the other Elven factions since his lands haven’t had a major attack on them in Millenia and his getting a constant supply of Elven immigrants who are slowly travelling to the Gray Havens. Considering these Elves aren’t described as fleeing or running or making “Haste” for Mithlond it could be argued that a few of them especially the elders among them may very well be convinced by Elrond to answer a last call to arms as many of these Elves would have fought beside the ancestors of the men of Gondor or even been saved by the men of Numenor.
The reality is Tolkien was not perfect and he maid some oversights but the core of the story is still rich and enticing enough to enrapture it’s readers
While I loved Peter Jackson using Arwen to help Frodo to rivvendell, in the book it was Glorifindel who cleared the road of nazgul , Glorifindel was kick ass.
It makes sense why he excluded Glorfindel, even Tolkien regretted him being an active part of the story, even if for a short while
Short answer, The Elves helped ALOT back in the day and they been saying its time for the Humans to put their big boy pants on and fight for your country cuz we out! 😂
where were the elves when mordor attacked gondor? what do we owe elves?
Asides from fighting back against the even more powerful dark lord Morgoth? Fighting during the War of the Last Alliance where three of their kings died? Asides from granting shelter and friendship to the ancestors of the men of Gondor?
Asides from sacrificing their blood for thousands of years to fight against evil, to the point where they were almost completely extinct by the War of Wrath?
Nothing I guess
People don't realize that the vast majority of the populations of the elves we're killed off during the first age during the wars with Morgoth. Even by the time of The Hobbit their populations were dwindling.
By the time the events of the Lord of the rings, what was left of the elves evacuated to Valinor. Those that remained behind did so for the specific purpose of what amounts to a suicide mission.
The Battle of Mirkwood
Is there any fan fiction that joints seamless to the lore?
There were not any Elves at Hem's Deep, either.That's just Jackson's bit of pathos, manufactured for the screen. The dwindling Elven race was exhausted and had faced the fact that Men would replace them. They were already leaving.
I would like them to make the northen front a movie as well so that people will see the full scale of the war.
I figured the ones that didn't leave were probably defending their home. Makes sense honestly.
Most had left for the West or at least were heading for the ships to take them.
The Elves already paid their final price at The Battle of Helm's Deep
You are aware that there weren't as many in the third as as during the second right?
Also I would love to hear more of the war in Mirkwood
My stance: if the elves had not been engaged as they were, that would mean far more of Sauron's forces available to attack Minas Tirith. Aragorn might have arrived too late if there were enough orcs and fell creatures to overwhelm the White City.
"I love only what they defend."
Well the elf's where leaving middle earth so there wouldn't have been many left ' plus the murkwood elf's where fighting in other battles
My bigger question is what about the Dwarves? Especially since it is pretty obvious that Jackson dislikes them.
This begs the question to me.. how did the Elves in LOTR reproduce?
Because of their pool Scotland definitely count as a dark horse, If they got to the quarter and knocked out Ireland or South Africa it would be the biggest upset of the tournament
THECHNICALLY THERE WERE! (No, not just Legolas). Elladan and Elrohir came with the Grey Company, and as they are both Elrond's sons and Galadriel's grandsons that means there were representatives from all three Elven realms present.
But yeah, the elves had their own shit to deal with. Sauron may not be a very good warlord (and an even worse duelist) but he's not completely stupid. He knows how to sneak around his enemy's lines. Tolkien had been to war. He knew how these things worked. I don't hate what Jackson did (I think it plays better on film than what the books have), but it did kinda make Sauron look even dumber than in canon.
How did Elladan or Elrohir- oh you’re including Legolas when you refer to representatives
@@randomelite4562 yes. The elven representation was not going to turn the tide of battle: but the heroes had already arranged their trump card. All they needed was for Thranduil and Glorfindel to hold the line, so Sauron's forces couldn't escape their trap. Thematically, this was the beginning of the Age of Men. It wouldn't do for elves to have an large influence on it's outcome, but their representatives being present gives legitimacy to the human leaders: Faramir, Aragorn and Imrahil. They are passing the torch, and very consciously.
This is a silly question. They were busy defending their own lands! There were no Elves at Helms Deep for the same reason. The War of the Ring was NOT just in Gondor, it was all over/ Do not believe the Peter Jackson movies, they were an interpretation of the story, with many important bits missed out and some unnecessary padding added to 'flesh out' the story. Where was the cleansing of the Shire? There was no attack by Warg riders on the Rohirrim on their way to Helms Deep. Where was Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth? Why was Aragorn not given Anduril before he left Rivendell? Why was he not eager to fulfill his destiny and marry the woman he loved? Why was Merry, who was recovering from a deathly illness, at the Battle of the Gate? Why didn't Pippin get to kill the Troll at the same battle, like he was supposed to? There were multiple unnecessary revisions to this story, I could go on for ages.