A Disney Villains Retrospective Part 4: Pinocchio Villains
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2020
- Pinocchio's quest to become a real boy led him to face some truly frightening villains! In this installment, we'll be discussing the following bad guys from Pinocchio (1940):
J. Worthington Foulfellow (AKA "Honest John")
Gideon
Stromboli
The Coachman
Monstro (Kind of?)
VIDEO SOURCES:
Pinocchio's Daring Journey at Disneyland (LMG Vids):
• [4K] LOW LIGHT Pinocch...
Pinocchio's Daring Journey at Tokyo Disneyland (SoCal Attractions 360):
• [4K] Tokyo Disneyland ...
SNES Game (World of Longplays):
• SNES Longplay [296] Pi... - Фільми й анімація
The fact that you can have Pinocchio kill The Coachman in the video game is SO fucking satisfying.
What video game?
The game for Nintendo back in 1995.
Indeed. The videogame finally brought karmatic justice upon that Coachman.
@@dontfaround441 the man with the red coat that Foulfellow and Gideon met to get a larger payment of gold for sending Pinocchio to Pleasure Island.
@@MrJohnffrey87 And Sega as well.
Even as a small child, the Coachman gave me chills even before that FACE... I didn't understand why until years later why he probably creeped me out so much. Apparently four-year-old me had REALLY good gut instinct.
I BELIEVE that last sentence
At that age I honestly thought that WAS Satan!
Same here I use to watch a Pinocchio a lot as a kid at age of 8 - 10 I don’t remember if I ever covered my eyes when the coach made that creepy Face but idk what made me watch the movie over and over again till I remember that moment when that scene scared the shit out of me probs after I started high school.. now I don’t even watch the movie anymore since I developed that fear of that Face I was fine before and after but just that one image NAHH FUCK THAT
To be honest with you I find this much more nightmare fume than watching IT or Exercist or any other sort of Horror movie, The coachman is the only person I have to worry about in the Disney Franchise the other villains don’t scare me at all thank God for that
I believe it's his mannerisms and body language that sends out warning signals, and the fact that he's hanging out with Honest John and Gideon in a seedy restaurant/bar. Before he makes that demonic face, he still always has this look to him; a diabolical like smile and sinister looking eyes, as if he's up to something.
@@michaelguarasci What one image do you speak of? I’ve never seen the original film.
I agree the darkest thing to think about this movie is that no one gets punished for their crimes and funny enough at least Gideon and Foulfellow were originally going to until it was cut.
On the contrary. You can argue that Stromboli was defeated once his star attraction escaped his wagon. In the Sega Genesis game, you actually DO fight the coachman and beat him once he's thrown off a cliff before you save Gepetto. That fox and cat never really seemed like the main focus. Like those Hyenas from Lion King.
Disney Villain: *Exists*
Cliff/Big fall: *I’m about to end this villain’s whole career*
@@JSATheWorldMedia Stromboli caught Covid 19 and died
Plus monstro got compence even though he was just trying to get some lunch.
@@lm64luigi85 🤦♀️
The coachman being a demon makes sense. In Dante’s inferno a circle of hell transforms people whom stolen.
In Pinocchio and the Emperor of the Night, he is a demon! ;)
It is also common in Eastern concepts of hell for sinners to transform.
I get that Carlo Collodi wanted to make an example out of Pinocchio with him being strung up by a tree, but even when I was younger, I scratched my head, thinking, "Wait, if he's made of wood, how is that supposed to kill him?" Him continuing the story right where it left off surprisingly makes sense, or rather, as much sense as a story like that can be.
Totally agree with you on that one. The only reason Carlo Collodi killed off Pinocchio was because he HATED children. His publisher probably wanted to continue the story, because giving them a lesson through character growth is better than killing off any potential for it.
I think there is a part in "Conker's Bad Fur Day" (of all games) that pokes fun on that detail: when the talking pitchfork hangs himself for "failing" to keep Conker out of his barn; the douchebags who dared him to do so laugh at him because of that same thing you said.
@@robbiewalker2831
Based
@AndrewWithEase11 11
I honestly haven't gone on Reddit in years.
@AndrewWithEase11 11 :/
I've heard a lot of wild fan theories in my time, but "The Coachman is a demon" is simultaneously the wildest yet weirdly believable
Apparently Disney planned an extended chase scene after Pleasure Island where the Coachman would chase Pinocchio back to land and Honest John and Gideon would try to misdirect him so they could catch him themselves and claim a reward, and then they'd all run smack into the police.
It would have been nice to see some villains get punished, but that scene would have made the final face-off with Monstro feel a lot less powerful.
Unfortunately, there are no deleted scenes that show that sequence nor storyboards. I would have loved to seen that in the finished film
@@joaquinbarboza3223 So would I, but for the sake of time and drama I think it was the right choice to do it.
@@WillScarlet16 You’re right, but I think that a third encounter between Pinocchio and John and Gideon could have been useful to show that Pinocchio would no longer believe in their lies.
On the other hand, even if we never see what happened with Stromboli, it’s likely he had to cancel his show and lost money when Pinocchio escaped, so at least he also got his karma
I doubt any prison would hold the Coachman for long.
@@joaquinbarboza3223 Maybe someone can make a short sequel comic out of it.
"His name/title is never said on screen" Honest John: "Now COACHMAN, what's your proposition?"
I really have to double or triplecheck these movies before I make statements like that, lol
@@ColinLooksBack the videos will still come out great
"How would you blokes like the earn some real money?"
@@thedude9024 well and do we have to 👉😵?
@@jackhamilton9604 No, no. Nothing like that. You see... (checks to see if no one else is listening)
I don't think there is a more evil character in Disney animation than the Coachman. He's a demon in human skin.
Literally!
Not to mention, he's one of the few Disney villains who doesn't get any kind of punishment.
I have a pretty fond memory of Foulfellow and Gideon! The first time I went to Walt Disney World with my family as a child, I was about 7 years old and very shy. I loved seeing the costumed characters, but with tons of other kids and their parents crowding around them for pictures, I couldn’t bring myself to get too close to the more popular and recognizable ones. But Gideon and Foulfellow noticed me clutching my little autograph book at the edge of the crowd. They signed my book, did a little dance with me, and let my parents take pictures away from all the other people so I wouldn’t be so nervous. I still have the autograph book somewhere. It’s one of my best Disney memories!
Aw, that's sweet! Foulfellow and Gideon were actually the first characters my family met on our first trip to Disney! I remember being quite surprised at how tall Foulfellow was, but I thought it was pretty cool seeing them that way.
I'm pretty sure I've only seen Goofy. In like the ten times I've ever been to Disney Land, I've encountered Goofy once and never even seen anyone else. Although I'm always looking to find someone.
I met Gideon in Disneyland at Cafe Mickey. Our food took forever but we got to meet loads of characters who walked through the cafe taking autographs and pictures while people waited for their food. It was great!
That's cute
So, apparently Gideon and Foulfellow are actually much nicer fellows "off-camera".
I would love to see Stromboli's reaction when he finds that Pinocchio is missing. That would be hilarious.
Here's how it would be played out:
Stromboli: (singing) I buy a new suit and I swing-a the chain. I eat-a best and I drink-a champagne. I got-a no strings on me. (he notices Pinocchio is gone) Yeah-- uh, huh? What?! (curses in Italian)
Whoops 😮
I can hear the bestemmie from here.
Given Pinocchio’s scream could be loud enough to hear, it makes sense.
Stromboli: “Naaaaa-sh-gunna-gunna-putatsa! Ebbe-shimma-mi-getsa-putso-me-gosta!”
Probably the same as Al of Al’s Toy Barn when he realizes his prize possessions (Woody, Jessie, Bullseye, Pete) all vanished at the airport. All his hopes and dreams of being rich went down the tube. I think the shock and sadness plus a Darth Vader noooo would be the reaction.
The Coachman creeped me out, but Lampwick's transformation into a donkey really creeped me out! I'm grown, and that sequence still gives me the chills!
Honestly, the donkey transformation never scared me. Mostly because A. the Coachman's evil smile is far worse. And B. I don't find anything scary about donkeys.
I don't know about you but when I was little, that evil face the Coachman makes when they're in the tavern, I seriously thought that's what Satan looks like. That description you gave of him not being fully human… I guess I was right!
I thought of the Coachman as an Anti-Santa Claus.
Both are fat old men in red with a ride drawn with animals, have supernatural helpers, and are catered to children's fancies.
But while Santa gives good children well deserving gifts, Coachman punishes the bad children (and one has a beard while the other doesn't).
In all honestly, the kids deserve their fate because of their temptation to do nothing but just act out in the way that they want to that they know they wouldn't be able to do elsewhere. When you think about the things they did on Pleasure Island, plus, and this is the most important part, the WANT to do those said things, it labels those actions as something only a jackass would do. So the island's magic just manifests that symbolization into a realism for those said bad boys, and doomed to a fate of being part of the market system. I don't know if the spell is irreversible, but if not, then it serves as a lesson to not be a jackass, or fate will just make an ass out of you.
For all we know, it might be.
@@keshiaanders6452 that actually was a good comparison
I know how you feel, sister. I like the scene in the Red Lobster Inn. Honest John and Gideon really shine in this scene and have some great little moments. For example, we get to hear more of Gideon’s hiccups 😁 The second one was terrific, but the third one was a little bit messy, if you know what I mean. 😁
In Italy we have a classic comic called “Mickey’s Inferno”, a parody of the Inferno part of the Divine Comedy.
Plenty of Disney character cameo: Mickey plays Dante and Goofy is Vergil, but there’s also a cameo of the likes of Peg Leg Pete, Donald Duck, Clarabelle Cow, Brer Rabbit, Brer Bear, the Three Little Pigs, Zeke Wolf, Dumbo and Pluto.
There a part where we are shown the suffering of all the misbehaving children turned into trees. The wood is cut by devils and carved by Geppetto into school desks. Said desks are placed in a classroom of small donkeys (with Doc from Snow White teaching for whatever reason) and eventually kicked into pieces, so that the devils can pick them up again and make them into trees to repeat the cycle.
When Mickey/Dante meets them, they are saved by a prompt intervention of the Blue Fairy, who turns them back into humans and has them promise to never misbehave again.
Honest John and Gideon show up to tempt the children into abandoning their good propositions and going back to misbehaving. But Dante/Mickey scolds them and calls into Jiminy Cricket to further mark his point. The villains fled and the children were sent back to earth.
What
@@shellyvision9693 a wild comic book from the 40's
@@shellyvision9693 italian disney created duck avenger,so it isn't suprised
No I understood what they said, it's just weird.
Yeah,it was a very peculiar comic that one,it was actually the first one in the long Topolino Story collection,that collected Disney comic from the 1940 up until the 90s,i have the entire collection and i must say,many of the earliest years stories are very peculiar, but very charming. For example Mickey Mouse and the Desert of Nothing, my favourites were the long adventures of Donald Duck and Huey,Dewey and Louie.
Actually, there are a few things about Monstro.
* In the original 'Pinocchio' story, it was a giant shark known as "The Terrible Dogfish" (which are a type of shark) that ate Pinocchio and Geppeto, and they escaped from it not by setting it's stomach on fire & making it sneeze, but wait until night time while the dogfish was asleep because it goes up to the surface at night due to it's breathing problems.
*It's possible the reasons why Disney changed Monstro from a giant shark to a whale is not only because not it makes much more sense for the sea creature to go on the surface to breathe, but because of the Biblical story 'Jonah and the Whale' (which the sea creature in the original tale was a giant fish too).
And just like Jonah, Geppeto has been stuck inside a whale's stomach hoping for a miracle to happen & rescue him.
*Monstro may be unintentionally based on a real prehistoric animal known as the Leviathain, a giant carnivorous whale that towers over & eats blue whales and Megalodon.
*Monstro is a rare type of creation that is both a character & a location at the same time. Which is why Monstro is a world in the Kingdom Hearts games instead of a boss (mostly), and featured as entrances in dark boat rides as a tunnel to escape from.
*Like Fowlfellow & Gideon, Monstro is also a most used Pinocchio villain in other Disney media.
*Before Monstro met his demise with the rocks, (if you have good hearing) he shouts out "I'll crush you!" as he swam straight towards Pinocchio & Geppeto. Making the line be the only time he spoke in the movie.
*Monstro appears in an episode of the Disney Afternoon cartoon "Bonkers," where it reveals that Monstro can not only talk, but is actually a nice guy & good actor.
That last fact about Bonkers made Monstro justice.
Livyatan is discovered like more than 50 years after Pinocchio is released so maybe it's based on Moby Dick
Do u mean leviathan?
Mostro is a natural creature as neutral as he comes. Neither Good nor Evil.
@@toyohimeyeswatatsuki6917 You're partially right. The Livyathan Melvillei is named after the Moby Dick story, but the Whale in question (Livyathan Melvillei) has a strong resemblence to Monstro... maybe it was a coincidence that Monstro would look and behave like an extinct species of Whale.
Hearing you talk about these characters made me realise that each antagonist becomes more dangerous than the previous one.
You start off with the conniving yet comedic Honest John and Gideon, then you move onto the more aggressive Stromboli, then you get the Coachman who's absolutely despicable and sadistic and finally you end on Monstro, a nigh unstoppable force of nature you can't reason with.
The Coachman and Stromboli always made me feel disgusted and they always gave me the creeps and gave me BIG CHILLS.
"A writer doesn't need to scrutinize every single detail about a story's magical world. It often takes away from the mystery and wonder surrounding it." And then of course with the Disney live-action remake, they'll probably do just that considering that responses to nitpicky criticisms seems to be what the live-action remakes do.
There is actually one American comic that features that Coachman as a villain. It's a Christmas comic where Honest John and Gideon steal Santa's sleigh and the Coachman wants to use the sleigh to take the boys to Pleasure Island. It's kind of fitting since he has a deceptively Santa Claus like figure (minus the beard). Of course, the plan is overheard by Toad, Ratty, and Mole, who take back the sleigh. The villains try to catch them, but Toad flings some money at them and Honest John, Gideon, and the Coachman fight over the money in an almost Three Stooges like fashion, showing another version of the Coachman getting his just deserts.
Even better. Try playing the sega genesis Pinocchio. On that pleasure island level, you actually do fight the coachman and win once he's thrown off the clip before you go rescue Gepetto.
I need a copy of this comic! Toad is one of my favorite Disney characters 😃
@@crystalfairy912 You can find it in this book: www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FDisneys-Christmas-Classics-Frank-Reilly%2Fdp%2F1684050065&psig=AOvVaw1VvubSHPV3Q6yESjnn1a14&ust=1595388205590000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCKiDmKyy3eoCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE
Or you can think the details of the magical world but never tell to the audience, is much more fun to leave hints on what is happening.
Kind of surprised you didn't mention how the coachman was part of what inspired King Dice from Cuphead.
He was also part of the inspiration for Wario’s design.
@@MrJohnffrey87 No that was the Stromboli character. I was clearly talking about The Coachman initially.
They do look alike.
@MBCMechachu Really? 8|
And eventually, Chef Saltbaker from the dlc.
Re: the suggestion that the evil Coachman represents the devil because of the reference to "meeting at the crossroads at midnight." There's a legend about a famous jazz or blues singer (or musician) who made a deal with the devil to become a even greater singer (or musician), and that the devil collected the man's soul at some "crossroads" in New Orleans. I forget who this fellow was, though.
Robert Johnson.
I wonder if that will be part of the plot of Pixar's "Soul" coming out
@@SnoutMajor
Thanks for the info.
@@michaelpalmieri7335 In traditional Black American and African spirituality the crossroads have no devil, it is a place of goodness, choice & change. We have the Crossroads Man who is a spirit that can make deals, but isn't here to just take your soul, a bottle of liquor and some cigs and candy or money will do for most requests. But when Christianity sees pagan religions, every non Jesus spirit is translated as the Devil which changes the way the lore is retold sadly. West Africa and the Congo had no devil before colonization, that is where AA and our customs come from.
@@TahtahmesDiary Interesting, did West Africa and the Congo believe in evil spirits or demon-like creatures if not a Devil?
10:47 The axe hitting the puppet was always the moment in "Pinocchio" that I found most horrifying as a kid.
16:27 I suspect the scary face the Coachman made was the inspiration for the "horror clown" genre of films.
"Even the veggietales one." I realized this earlier on, but I just noticed that the veggietales adaptation is more closer to the book than the Disney one.
THEY LITERALLY SAID THE ANSWER TO "HOW MUCH WOOD COULD A WOODCHUCK IF A WOODCHUCK COULD CHUCK WOOD" WAS FIVE GOLD COINS HOW IS THAT ACCURATE
Dang, that original, original story of Pinocchio is messed up.
@TheCatsMeow PrettyHorses Look up specifically "The Adventures of Pinocchio" on Wikipedia. See where you go from there.
Honest John and Gideon are my favorite duo
Mine too ❤️
@@meg9998 So do I ❤️
Me too. They're two of my favorite animal characters.
1:54 - Foulfellow and Gideon
8:59 - Strombuli
14:54 - Couchman
21:20 - Monstro
Honest John is my favourite character in Pinocchio.
It’s “Stromboli”, and “Coachman”, and they were both voiced by Charles Judels, who was nothing like them in real life.
lol "Couchman". He is the lord of couches.
I like Monstro, cause he's only a natural villain that's only following nature.
@@lbp3skyedog-215 I like Monstro cause i am a fish person.
15:23
that animated donkey transformation was scarier than seeing the original Disney animation as a kid and to be quite honest, i am triggered. I love this retrospective!
These days, when I see that scene, my reaction is the same as Kletus Clump from the Nutty Professor 2: "THIS IS SOME SCARY SHIT!"
@@rdphoenix07 yeah
Pinocchio has been much on my mind in these coronavirus days. As I've watched Disney vlogs urging people to go back to the park and enjoy the magic, I always think of The Coachman luring Pinocchio and the other errant boys to climb on board for Pleasure Island, of course making no mention of the dangers that await them. It is at this point in the movie that Jiminy Cricket jumps on board the coach and says a line that is well suited to today, as Disney World re-opens this afternoon: "Here we go again".
I never thought of it that way, but that's a great point! Pleasure Island in this case is Walt Disney World opening back up and the people visiting and going from healthy to sick (perhaps even dying) as a result of COVID are like the boys transforming into donkeys. Perhaps the Disney corporation acts as the Coachman in this comparison.
@@colbystearns5238 Thank you and please join me in spreading that warning. These people are not going to disappear into some Peruvian salt mine, they are going to return to our cities and towns and could well end up kicking us in the face with a little coronavirus souvenir because they needed to "feel the magic".
Oh good and kind Blue Fairy, please send Jiminy Cricket back to us! We sure do need him...
Oh, jeez, that's a great metaphor that I probably would have never thought of myself.
Geez. I think I’m pinocchio
Some Disney parks fans are incredibly self centered people.
Unpopular opinion, or rather unpopular theory/headcanon, but I’ve always seen the Coachman as a malevolent fae rather than a demon.
I mean, he doesn’t go by his real name (just a title), abducts young boys (reminding me of Changelings), has unclear/inhuman motives and morality - he’s also sort of a foil to the Blue Fairy, who is, well, a fairy.
Also, the fae have ties to demons - some have said that the fae were fallen angels or demons themselves, and according to the Ballad of Tam Lin the fae have a tithe to Hell. And the crossroads were associated with a lot of supernatural things, not just the Devil.
If that's really the case, Blue Fairy in the story shows that (at least in this story) not all fairies are evil or have ties to hell.
@@revolvingworld2676 Seelie vs Unseelie Fae, that's nothing... new?
I always saw him as being more of a sinister fae being rather than an actual demon. It would fit his motivations and the fae could run any where from benevolent to malicious or even somewhere in between (depending on their mood). He was terrifying though.
@@GoldieTamamo the seelie court of did not necessarily mean they were benevolent, they could be just as malicious and sinister as the unseelie court. The seelie court just meant they had rules and laws and their own moral code they were expected to live by. However that does not mean that they shared our morals. They could be self righteous about it. The coachman could be part of the seelie court if he felt over indulgence was wrong and was deliberately luring kids to test them akd then punish them when they acted out. That is one of the things that's scary about the fae.
@@Passions5555 The point I was more trying to get at, was that, the concept of seelie and unseelie courts were still an attempt at moral distinction of fae by humans--that existed long before Collodi's Fairy With Turquoise Hair--at least, from the perspective of fiction-writing. I wasn't trying to assert that Seelie fae were harmless or without ill intention. (which I consider to be a terrible metric for determining beneficence, anyway--"good" people have ill intentions toward those who are doing wrong by their own moral code, it's why we have crime and punishment. Beneficence is a far more complex parameter than not doing or not being able to do harm.)
To be frank, and this is just my personal takeaway--I think the Blue Fairy/Fairy With the Turquoise Hair was in on the whole scheme of Pinnochio being turned into a donkey, and was just interested in teaching him an object lesson in responsibility, which is why she eventually bails him out of that state--at least in the original stories (the original ones where Pinnochio doesn't just up and get hanged, anyway).
Where I see the seelie and unseelie courts deviating, is that unseelie fae seem to be rabid, rogue, or aggrieved to the point of frenzy and madness. I wasn't actually drawing a line between the coachman and the blue fairy at all--it was beside the point of my observation.
See, part of the problem, too, is that we're kind of discussing the idea of beings closer to mythic Scottish and Gaelic origin in their systematization, through the lens of an Italian humorist in the 1800s with Italian moral scruples, in a story where the fairies are very clearly nigh-omnipotent forces of nature acting as a framing device for exploring human morals. So as far as being an accurate depiction of the fair folk goes, Pinnochio isn't even exactly the best place to start, anyway.
What I have noticed is the escaltion of villains is nicely done. With Honest John and Gideon being obvious conmen due to their overly friendily demenour but thir attire marks them as vagrents or such so they have something to gain. Stromboli is more of a mix of the coachman and honest john gideon; he's friendily to a degree but is only evil due to business, then we have the coachman who is just evil. So far the main motivation with these 3 is money. Honest John/Gideon are vagrent like so they are after money even if it's a small amount, Stormboli see's the future profits in his purchase of pinocchio and the coachman turs kids into donkets and sells them. Monstro is almost like evil in it's purest form. Yes Monstro is a whale and doing what animals due but in trying to escape and survive he can be seen as a villain in that repsect and thus monstro is pure evil in that he is driven by instinct and has no movtive other then the catch and comsume. SO we go from fairly obvious and light hearted sort to villains to what one could call pure evil.
I think you mean “going from ‘human in nature’ to ‘wild like an animal’ in rank”, if you’re bringing Monstro into the mix.
It's funny how evil in Pinocchio opens with animals behaving like humans, then humans driven by the same greed and being wrathful and one that turns humans into animals for money and maybe sadistic reasons, then to close It all we have an animal doing exactly what animals do, consume, purely so, the greedy wrath of hunger.
I can understand your opinion on Monstero. And, to a degree I can kind of agree with you.
But I'm sure we can both agree that, with the possible exception of the coachman, Monstero is perhaps the most frightening antagonist in the entire Pinocchio movie.
Ah, "Geppetto", God's gift to the Whose Line Is It Anyway cast.
Anyways, I'm not that surprised that the Fox and Cat, in the comics, don't get away with anywhere near as much; even if they never met Mickey or Donald, who tend to be more on the ball than Pinocchio, after twice being endangered listening to them, Pinocchio is probably at least a tad more cautious around them.
And finally, show of hands, who else finds that storyboard version of the Coachman's promise of no squealers even creepier, where he just shifts back to beatific-looking?
Yeah, that was pretty creepy, actually. It gave me chills just looking at it.
"I was originally going to say a lot about Monstro."
It's a shame you didn't in the end. I would love to hear what you've figured out about the whale.
Same. He could have at least talked about how be appeared in other media. Disappointing
@@axkin6856 And how it might have inspired the intense orca chase sequence in Don Bluth's "The Pebble and the Penguin".
A separate video on Monstro could be nice.
*Fun Fact:* In Cuphead the grin that King Dice does in his boss fight was based off of the grin pulled off by the coachman in this movie
Pinocchio NEEDS a dark “Something Wicked This Way Comes” style spinoff movie about Pleasure Island and The Coachman’s backstory.
Since my childhood I was impressed of how big and scary Monstro was. I believe she is one of the scariest Disney's creatures. Please do a video where you can talk more about her!
Andrei S Monstro is actually male. Pinocchio refers to him as “he” several times.
@@fattuscattus2200 In my Native language, all non-human nouns have either male or female pronouns, and we use "she" to refer to The world "whale". So I've watched my entire life they refering to Monstro as "she". I don't think Monstro would be mad about that 🥴
Andrei S ah I see.
My brother's ex-wife has a lifelong phobia of whales and she doesn't know where it came from. I can only surmise that she watched Pinocchio at a very young age and doesn't remember. Monstro is REALLY terrifying. It took many years and a lot of education to understand that whales are truly gentle giants. Of course they need to eat, but, left to their own devices, they're happy to just swim all over the world, make babies, and live their lives.
@@glideiz111 He probably would, if you're gender-labeling by species.
It's funny because in the original Pinocchio book The Fox and cat are defeated, the cat pretends to be blind and the fox pretends to be lame (or vice versa I don't remember) but near the end of the book they actually do become blind and lame, but Pinocchio, who has now learned to not trust them, berates them for being so deceitful and leaves them to live out there now ruined lives.
Ironic
Lame
The thought of those boys being turned into donkeys makes me feel very agitated, especially in the way that they are treated by the evil Coachman.
The Coachman is just the stuff of nightmares
OMG the storyboard pics of the coachman look as sinister as the finished look for the films! Plus Lampwick’s donkey transformation still scares me 😨😨
I met Stromboli a few times in Disneyland in Paris and whoever was in the costume took the role very seriously, not giving out an autograph until I called him "MONSIEUR Stromboli" and even at one time painfully butting my brother's head and mine against each other. Luckily, the pain didn't last for long and it didn't ruin our magical experience either.
14:48 "YOU WANT FUN? STROMBOLI SHOW YOU FUN!!!!"
I motion for this to be modded.
Fun Fact: The donkey boy that can still talk ( Alexander ) has the same voice actor as Pinocchio ( Dickie Jones )
Also, Stromboli and Coachman were voiced by the same actor (Charles Judels).
That’s right
@@Quirky_Ventriloquist That’s right. May I ask you something? What do you really love about Honest John?
@@madeleinemcgregor2855 He is funny and the way he manipulates Pinocchio is so realistic. Also, he had every right to fear Pleasure Island.
I did not know that.
I like that Stromboli (Mangiafuoco) and the Coachman ("il Postiglione" in Italian) are voiced by the same person. It reminds me of "Dracula" and "Nosferatu" (1922).
The coachman („der Kutscher“ in German) that takes Jonathan Harker (Thomas Hutter in "Nosferatu") to Count Dracula (Count Orlok in "Nosferatu") is actually the count („der Graf“ in German) in disguise. They are the same person.
The Pleasure Island scene where all the kids turned into donkeys used to scare the pants off of me as a kid. Disney would have been great at making animated HORROR movies if he actually dared to make them.
Cinderella also violated the Haze Code as we see Cinderella's nude silhouette which was a violation. They seemed not to pay as much attention to animated films at the time.
it's kinda weird, you'd think they pay more attention to Disney films if anything since their films are aimed at young audiences, maybe they didn't bother because cartoon anatomy wasn't real enough for them to be considered vulgar or whatever?
@@ginogatash4030 Hard to say... back when the movie was made, animations were rare and it was like going to the opera, fancy and decadent. So maybe they looked through their fingers because of how special long animation were at that time? Or maybe a little bribe made people ignore it.
Maybe someone had to finagle that in. It reminds me of how hard the Star Wars Fallen Order developers had to fight to be allowed to make the main character a white man.
Totally innocuous? Yes. Punters would be offended? No. But it's politically incorrect and offends the elites.
There's just something weird about Mel Blanc voicing an original Disney animated character. June Foray's career took her to all the different studios to the point where she initially turned down playing Witch Hazel in Looney Tunes cartoons because she was afraid that it would be too similar to the Witch Hazel in that one Donald Duck cartoon. But Mel is so distinctly rooted in Looney Tunes at that point, it felt unnatural. Sure, he was Woody Woodpecker in the very early shorts before being recast, and they still used his laugh for a while after, but just imagine his distinct voice coming out of a Disney cartoon.
Well, Mel did voice a lot of Hanna-Barbera characters too, so...
He had a long history of voice work outside of Looney Tunes, yes, but not one that's associated with Disney. Not to mention the Looney Tunes cartoons were made around the same time as this movie was, and H-B was still doing Tom and Jerry if anything. Mel's gigs at H-B and UPA (among others) was years away at this time. Somehow, I feel Walt would hire Mel to do a voice for a movie and then find a way to weasel out of it because he was associated with the competition. That does seem like something he'd do, anyway.
Just a side note about June Foray, as long as she was mentioned: she did the sounds for Lucifer the cat in Cinderella (1950) and later modeled for the mermaids in Peter Pan (1953). Just as you said with Mel Blanc, her work took her to various studios over the years.
I first heard of June Foray through her role as Mulan’s sardonic grandmother in Mulan (1998). I had no idea she had a big voice acting career until recently.
@@speedracer2008 I grew up watching a LOT of stuff where she did voicework for, and I was always one to follow remarkable voice actors even as a kid. Bullwinkle and Ducktales episodes mostly.
Honest John actually does refer to him as “the coachman” in the Disney movie when they show them plotting about pleasure island.
16:03, Honest John did say alright "Coachman", what's your proposition?, so that counts as his name is said on screen.
Stromboli is like the Disney version of Wario. (Fun fact: They are both Italian characters)
Squall Rowlandson
Heck, even Teruteru Hanamura.
For some reason the pediatrician office waiting room I went to as a kid thought it was a good idea to put a model of pinnochio in the cage hanging in the corner. The rest of the waiting room had books and fish tanks to look at
I have a theory:
Stromboli proved to be hardly friendly and paid Honest John and Gideon very low. Whereas the Coachman knows about Stromboli’s exploits (perhaps even met him at one point) and sees that as child’s play.
The Coachman one-ups him big time as the most cunning, ruthless villain of Pinocchio.
And Monstro has appeared in the Kingdom Hearts franchise not once, not twice, but FOUR times. In the original Kingdom Hearts game, he swallowed Geppetto, yes, and apparently Pinocchio, too, when Sora and his friends left Pinoke after encountering him in Traverse Town, only for the heroic trio to get swallowed by the whale themselves, finding the puppet, meeting Geppetto, encountering Riku, and fighting a Heartless that attacks the little fella. In Chain of Memories, it's kinda more or less the same, except Pinocchio was trying to find a way to get out of the whale, saying that it's his fault for not going to school like he was supposed to, the Heartless boss attacks Pinoke again, but this time, after Sora and the others defeat it, Pinocchio is the one who gets it to spit him out, and he gets the idea of doing the same thing to Monstro. In Dream Drop Distance, Pinocchio tells Jiminy the false story of him meeting monsters that tie him up, but that he got away from them, and mentioning a guy in a black coat who told the puppet to play a trick on Sora (which was true). Sora chases after Pinoke and Jiminy in the ocean, and see them get swallowed by Monstro, but then a giant Dream Eater freezes the whale, but after Sora thaws out the whale, Monstro swallows the Dream Eater for good measure, then Riku finds himself in the whale, and going after Pinoke who was seen walking off with a stranger in a black coat (which was Riku's dark side), then Riku fights the Dream Eater that Monstro swallowed earlier, and Pinocchio's reunited with his father. In Birth By Sleep, you actually fight him. This is only in the Final Mix version, but it's pretty cool.
I cannot believe that these two films both bombed at the box office on the day of their releases, despite receiving positive reviews from critics.
Well Disney's Pinocchio came out during WW2 so...
Monstro has always been my favorite in the movie.
I thought this would be one of those typical "top villains" type things, but it's so much more and better!
Brent Spiner's Data was also a Pinocchio type wishing to be more human.
While I agree on some level that Monstro may not be considered a true villain, when Pinocchio mentions him to the fish in the sea, they all look shocked and run away, implying that Mosntro is feared across the ocean. We also see some sea-wrecked ships close by Monstro in the first scene where we actually see him. Jiminy also warned Pinocchio not to go after Monstro before they enter the sea.
Also, in the original book, Monstro was an unnamed shark instead of a whale, and instead of using fire, Pinocchio and Gepetto just sneak out of his belly while he was sleeping with his mouth open and he never finds out they escaped. In the remake, he does give a villainous laugh as he is chasing Pinocchio and Gepetto at the end after they escape.
And the moral of the story is be honest and work hard, or sleazy types will take advantage of you
... And also that the law apparently won't do anything about all those sleazy types engaging in blatant child abduction
The thing is that the sleazy types often know how to take advantage of you in ways that are legal, through manipulation and such.
Hollywood does it all the time to child actors.
The Coachman did get away with it in the original story. The Fox and Cat, not so much.
honestly I like that the villains get away with their shit, pushing so hard for villains to get their comeuppance ingrains in people a mindset that in turn kindness has to be rewarded which makes people want to be nice for the prize rather than doing it cause it's the right thing, and makes seeing bastards in the real world get the prize instead while you eat shit more frustrating and makes you wonder what's the point of being decent if it doesn't always gets you what you want, when really you should be doing good regardless of others' comeuppance and such without expecting a reward because making the world around you that little bit nicer is enough of a reward.
and it's also a good way to teach children not to fall for snake oil salesman and such, not that there's anything wrong with having stories that do have comeuppances, bit I like some variety, and it makes the film more unique compared to the rest of the Disney catalogue.
I’d say it’s be honest, always take the opportunity to learn when possible, and listen to your conscience. If something doesn’t seem right, it might not be.
Pinocchio noticed this in the saloon as his buddy transformed into a donkey, so he stopped drinking and smoking right away.
He's the cat,
And I'm the fox,
You can trust us!
I watched Pinocchio a lot when I was little, and I honestly don’t remember the scary scenes that much. I didn’t realize how scary those moments were until I watched it again years later, wondering “How was I not terrified by this as a kid?”
I really enjoyed this video! The Pinocchio villains really are interesting. As much as i disagree with his actions, i dont think a disney character makes me laugh as hard as Gideon does! He’s my favorite villain!
I spent a large part of my childhood being TERRIFIED of turning into a donkey. I was also super afraid of Stromboli (I grew up to be an actor/ singer 😂) always afraid of being trapped in a bird cage.
Hi!-it’s Anthony, who shared a lot of your You Tube thread comments regarding Rodgers and Hammerstein’s “Carousel”. I just wanted you to know that “Pinocchio” is probably my second favorite Disney film (after “Dumbo”) and some of its darker scenes certainly had a great emotional impact on me when I was young and they still do. My family lived in London when I was 11 & 12 and certain theatres (English spelling!) in London back then from 1970-1972 showed Disney classics. They were and still are very involving especially when viewed on a big cinema screen.
Pinocchio never really scared me as a kid. My grandparents showed it to me when I was 4 and it didn’t really phase me, my parents used to let me watch R rated horror movies with them on tv. I had already saw the chunky movies, Halloween, and the shining by that point. But as an adult this movie is so damn unsettling me once you actually understand the themes.
Funny you should mention that Foulfellow and Gideon were in a storybook adaptation of The Emperor's New Clothes. A Pooh storybook from the mid-80s was also a riff on The Emperor's New Clothes--Pooh got tricked the same way. The trickster was a fellow named Sly Fox--who was a dead ringer for Foulfellow.
I thought up the idea that The Coachman and his crew are just one of many henchman used dark forces and that the boys becoming donkeys is just the first step in them ultimately becoming Demons, who will then devour The Coachman and another takes his place: a horrible cycle for all!
what is that even based on? it's a pretty wild take with not much evidence.
I wonder if the look of the coachmen’s henchmen inspired the look of the Phantom Blot.
No. How would that even make sense?
@@shellyvision9693 they are dudes completely cover by black robes, they look like the Phantom Blot
@@Neyebureturns Oh sorry I misread it as the Coachman himself
@@Neyebureturns Actually, it could be possible that the Phantom Blot was modelled after the Mad Doctor's cloak, since in Epic Mickey, he wore the outfit in his first confrontation, which made fanbrats confused, thus the original cutscene, along with the model, was scrapped (the model being lost forever).
the coachman is underrated as hell
I always wanted an origin story of him
"Here the transformation is linked to a roller coaster ride."
Wait, there are TWO Pinnochio movies that do that?
For the record, Little Roxie was always rather fond of her inflatable Monstro bath toy, and didn't see him as evil. This was a great video, Colin! I like that you included Geppetto and clips from the Italian Pinocchio movie I grew up with. PS: If you ever need help with Italian pronunciation, I'm your girl.
I wish I had a whale toy when I was younger
I had one of those as well.
Had a pool toy of a whale that filled up and squirted water, looked like Monstro. My fraternal twin brother and I named him that.
Honest John and Gideon are my favorite Disney characters ahhhh
Honest John is my favourite character in Pinocchio.
Mine too 😍😍😊😊
Honest John is my favorite character too, I love him 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
Same 😍🥰💕💜💗❤️💖
The new Pinocchio remake has Foulfellow voiced by Keegan-Michael Key and Gideon once again silent; Stromboli played by Giuseppe Battiston; and the Coachman played by Luke Evans (who also plays a vendor on Pleasure Island). As for Monstro, he has been changed from a whale to a sea monster.
I love the Disney villain series!
Most Disney movies have one main villain, but Pinocchio has three, not counting the fox and cat. They are more like secondary villains in the Disney version.
WOW, the Monstro section is kinda short. You didn't mention that he's based on The Terrible Dogfish, a giant shark from the original book, not even his other appearance, such as: Comics, ice shows, attractions, the Kingdom Hearts series and Once Upon Time.
That's because, again, Monstro isn't much so a villain.
@@robbiewalker2831 Can you explain me, please ?
@@robbiewalker2831 why bring him up at all then?
I agree. I was disappointed he didn’t talk about him more and how he appeared in different media
A bonus video on him would be nice.
When I was a little kid. I always thought that the cigarettes and beer they drank were tainted. And that's what turned them into donkeys.
What a pity. I'd so have loved to see the other Disney's Pinocchio villains get their well deserved defeats for their actions. I wonder if we'll see that happen in the live action remake of Pinocchio.
no that would ruin the whole point if the film, so obviously they're going to do it.
My favorite bit in the original novel never makes it into the movies. It's when Pinocchio, just after being robbed by the Fox and the Cat, goes to court to report the thieves to the magistrate. The magistrate (who is an aging gorilla) listens very sympathetically to Pinocchio's complaint, and then announces to the court: "You heard him - he admits that he was robbed. So, lock hiim up!" And Pinocchio gets locked up in jail, for having been the VICTIM of the crime. He stays in jail until he manages to persuade the jailer that he (Pinocchio) is also a dangerous criminal. When the jailer is persuaded of this, he lets Pinocchio go.
Glad you mentioned Brent Spiner's Stromboli--one of the saving graces of that rather blah movie. (Brent Spiner in a story about an artificially created being who wants to be human? Come on, who would buy that?)
The donkey transformation sequence freaked me out so much as a kid I literally blocked it from my memory. I completely forgot about it until I was watching "Pinocchio" again years later in my 20s. As it started to unfold, the memory was unlocked and I was like, "Oh, THIS fucking scene!"
5:21 Foulfellow and Gideon never got away with their crimes!
In the film, they do
@@Reagan1984 Well that is left to be debated by the viewers. Either they get away with their crimes while still being wanted by the law or that like Monstro and Stromboli, in can be inferred that they face the comeuppance and never redeem themselves as they have been arrested offscreen, as implied by the viewers and the deleted scene, after Geppetto learned about Pinocchio being in Pleasure Island, according to some source material. Either way, the two will not be able to tempt Pinocchio, to be on the safe side.
@@matthewhedrichjr.5445
A deleted scene means it never happened.
Stromboli never committed any crimes, as immoral as his acts may be, so he probably got off scot free.
Foulfellow and Gideon are fine after all their misdoings.
Nothing is implied, so we don't know what happened. But in the end, we never get to see them get their comeuppance.
In the end, Pinocchio gets his happy ending, but all the foes he faced are still at large and learnt nothing.
@@Reagan1984while their fates is still debated by the viewers but considering as a matter of fact that there have been book and comic adaptations, it has been specified that Geppetto had learned about Pinocchio being on Pleasure Island and the only people who likely knew about this are Foulfellow and Gideon, or probably some of the villagers that heard the duo singing out loud while taking Pinocchio out to the Coachman, which is another sign of Foulfellow’s stupidity that likely resulted in his and Gideon’s arrest, suffer the same fate as their original counterparts, or trying to escape from the police in fear.
8:00 oh dear God you've just released my nightmares. That film was so disturbing
It's funny you mentioned that one Emperor's New Clothes adaptation where Foulfellow and Gideon trick Prince John. A friend of mine used to have this series of Disney stories and one of them had Foulfellow pulling the Emperor's New Clothes routine again, this time on Pooh and as a solo act, no Gideon involved.
I remember reading that book! I think Foulfellow was called "Sly Fox" there.
I can't believe how rebellious the literary Pinocchio was.
I believe the 'turn into donkeys' bit is adult humor of asshole becoming real asses.
The literary Monstro was a shark.
My mom: *the food isn't that hot!*
The food: 9:00
Oh my is Gepetto a bad movie, but Spiner is clearly having a ball hamming it up and his performance is thoroughly entertaining.
Interesting that Commander Data Would Play Stromboli Since On When Riker Meets Data on Star Trek The Next Generation, Commander Riker Calls him Pinocchio.
Hiiiigh Didely dee, an actors life for me!
That's why I love Honest John.
i always wondered why Gedeon did not have any lines but now i get it
Thank you, thank you, _thank you_ for using footage from Giuliano Cenci's 1970s animated movie to illustrate scenes from the book that are absent in the Disney version. It's a gem of European animation that needs more attention.
Speaking of Fun and Fancy Free Willie might have been the villain but he was so childish that latter appearances made him more on the good side ,
Delightfully thorough research, as always. I love how you contextualize the characters through many pieces of media.
Looking at it from the profit side perhaps the Coachman made a deal with the devil/magical being that he got to keep any profits from the Donkeys while the magic on the island fixed the buildings and allowed things to remain stocked like the beer and cigars. The only thing the Coachman had to do was collect the boys, run the island and collect/sell the donkeys.
That to me seems the most likely. He revels in punishing people while also making a profit.
The coachmen had people helping him. As shown in the movie. Monster like people blacked out closing the gates of pleasure island.
You for disney's live action remake of Pinocchio and with Robert zemeckis directing I want the coachman to be play a much larger role with stromboli as his sidekick each one getting their own comeuppance. and Monstro, Honest John, and gideon become enemies turned good friends.
I'm hoping the Disney remake expands on stuff mainly the coachman cause it still leaves with a question of what happened to the boys.
Yes you reuploaded it!
I don't think people give props of how big a step up this movie was after Snow White.
Better story, more engaging characters, fun (and scary) villains, even the animation feels more sharp and fluid.
And this was only their *SECOND* feature film!
The 2022 Pinocchio remake did everything dirty, they made the Coachman look like a joke of a bum so pathetic he has to rely on the very children he abducts to threaten Pinocchio, while Worthington Foulfellow is the one pulling off the child-traumatizing faces. Stromboli was also degraded into just a simple bare bones greedy crook rather than that deceivingly crafty fiend in the classics, Gideon looks like he came straight out of Rango and Monstro looks like my Super Rare 1/36 Funko Mystery Minis figure of the Mosasaurus from Jurassic World with Sharktopus tentacles!
What is the Non-Disney Pinocchio adaptation you showed clips of?
As for the Hay's Code I think the Coachman's supernatural nature may have spared him from the censors?
Then how do you explain the Hay's Code's other famous retribution dodger, It's a Wonderful Life's William Potter?
The animated Pinocchio that he showed clips of when describing scenes from the book is the 1972 Itallian animated film. The reason why he used it is because that version is more of a direct almost identical adaptation of the book than the Disney version.
While not as good as Disney, I think that version is very interesting and probably the best film to go to if you want a film that is fully faithful to the book.
@@alexmillar4878 Thanks for the answer! 😁
You're very welcome.
I'd recommend it if you want to see a Pinocchio adaptation that's as close to the book as possible.
Monstro is a scary villain
He may not look like it, but he is a monster
Monstro means monster in portuguese so there ya go! 😂
You should have mentioned the fact that in the original book as well as the Geppetto film, Pinocchio becomes a full blown Jackass. And then Pinocchio was sold to a antagonist that did not make it into the film, the ringleader. Though he would kind off get fused with the coachman in Geppetto.
It has been five hundred years but it has returned! Cant wait for the next part keep up the good work