Too Much Trailer? Ram 2500 Hits the Scale to Find Out! + Answering Your Curt Crosswing Questions
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
- After installing the Curt Crosswing on our Ram 2500 and buying a new fifth-wheel trailer, we hit the scale to get to the bottom of whether or not this truck is overweight or not. Based on the payload rating, the truck is overloaded, but is that number gospel? We discuss all of this and more.
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I applaud you guys for having the balls to make this video and openly admit to towing over the official limits of your truck according to the manufacturer. It comes as no surprise that many of the comments are ultra critical of your choice to think for yourself, instead of only following the more or less arbitrary rules provided by government and corporate bureaucrats. Bravery, honesty, and a love of liberty are very rare in this day and age of mass authoritarian conformity. Cheers!
Here in the states we just had an example of a way over loaded truck with a bent frame and well publicized in media and you tube . A follow up article in Truck Camper Adventure, insurance covered it to the tune of 17.000.00 dollars.
Did anyone get killed? Did it involve anyone else? Did it involve public property being damaged? If not, that is why the insurance covered it.
The outcome is affected by specific provisions contained within their policy.
I must say I'm surprised to hear you guys say that exceeding the payload is ok.
It's not
They didn't even mention that the rear axles in these Rams since 2003 are the AAM 11.5 axle, an axle which is actually rated by AAM (the company which creates the axle) to have a capacity of over 10500 lbs. ... The real weak link in the trucks load capacity is not the rear axle. The real weak links are the suspension, the tires and rims... That is what really limits the true rear GAWR of these trucks, something which can be adjusted for by simply upfitting your suspension and upgrading your tires and rims. But if you are a "by the books" person who relies on authority figures to tell you what is right and wrong, or in this case what is safe and unsafe, and cannot or will not do your own research and critically examine the evidence for yourself in order to reach your own conclusions and make your own decisions in life, then you will not be able to appreciate their reasoning. That being said, the simple reality of life is this - if all you ever do is what someone else says you should do, then you wont ever do much, or accomplish much in life, other than a certain degree of mediocrity by conformity.
If you haul this configuration and get into an accident, even if it's not your fault, your insurance will not cover you when the investigator (Physicist) from the DOT comes out and determines you are beyond the manufacturer's specifications not only will you be subject to a Civil suit, but a Private suit from the family in the other vehicle. And you better not have any equity because that suit is going to take your house.
@@jamiepeay528Another weak link is the frame.
So that's frames, brakes, suspension, rims and possibly tires.
Or just pay $2000-5000 to upgrade to a 3500 SRW.
@@Slackware1995 Brakes, frame, wheels are all the same on 2500 and 3500 SRW.
I agree with the comments about 10k lb 3/4 ton trucks, these are compliance trucks and the payload rating is low to hit a target. You see a similar barrier with the F-450 and DRW F-350, the 450 gets lower payload than the lower built F-350 because both are working with the Tier III 14k lbs limit.
All that said, when I was researching Canadian laws, here in BC GVWR, and GAWR’s have a legal meaning. The law states we must operate our vehicles within these limits. I’d guess Ontario has similar rules.
Payload and GCWR do not have a legal meaning here, so it’s completely appropriate to ignore them, provided you are inside both your axle ratings, and your GVWR, and your setup is towing safely.
As far as consequences of breaking these rules, you could be fined, and it could be a factor in determining fault in an accident, but I’ve never seen one substantiated example of insurance not applying.
Your videos are great ! Can you do one on the process of weighing a bumper pull trailer on the cat scale ?
We have a ram 1500 and a new rockwood 2614bs
Will be going to the cat scale in the spring and would like to know the process and how to calculate tongue weight
Thanks !
What matters is how insurance looks at it.
You could be towing uninsured all the way to Florida and back... you have a dilemma on your hands: get 3500 or lighter 5th wheel or tow as is and probably uninsured.
In addition they have made a public video documenting their practice of surpassing the weight ratings of the truck. If the insurance company gets a hold of this video they very likely will not insure. Not to mention that any accident will likely prompt an investigation by law enforcement into the GAWR's, GVWR"S, and GCWR's along with citations and fines for being over the rating limits. As Yogi Berra says, it works great until it doesn't.
We don’t have many f250’s or 2500’s where I live because of luxury taxes. I can buy a more expensive 350 over a 250 here for the same price. Glad you guys touched on that point.
Great job.
I watched this and a few other videos about the Crosswing hitch. Having a hitch that I could remove and install by myself would be fantastic. But the 5" offset is a deal breaker! As someone who drove big rigs, cross-country for 12 years, I know all too well that proper weight distribution across the power unit axles is paramount.
My truck is just like yours, and I use the Anderson Fifth wheel hitch. Have not ever take it to a CAT scale yet. The truck tows just fine. We are a family of 4. I picked the Anderson to avoid more weight payload and so far the Anderson has been very good.
What camper do you have? I’m shopping
I had the Anderson hitch with this GD Solitude 5th wheel and I literally towed it 1 mile before the Anderson aluminum ball sheered right in two and dropped the unit on my truck bed. Anderson wouldn’t stand behind their 20,000 pound rated hitch and claimed I ‘over articulated’ the hitch. I wouldn’t buy another one - ever. If you want the pictures let me know.
I appreciate you guys taking on the subject of payload capacity in 3/4 ton trucks. I happen to agree with you that many 3/4 ton trucks are under-rated for their actual true payload capacity. Let me explain why I believe that: If you look at the towing/payload capacity chart for the 2021 ram 3500 trucks you'll find that the GVWR of the 1 ton crew cab 4x4 trucks with the 6'4" bed is 11800 lbs (which is the 1 ton version of your 3/4 ram). If you take 11800 and divide it by the grand axle weight rating of the 3500 (which is 13000 lbs) you get 0.9076 which means that Ram is saying that they feel that a GVWR that is about 91% of the GAWR is acceptable for safety and towing performance. Now if you take 0.9076 and apply that to your 3/4 ton truck GAWR of 12040 lbs (0.9076 x 12040) you get a new GVWR of 10,928 lbs (not 10,000 lbs). Now if you subtract the weight of the truck from 10,928 (let's pretend your truck weighs 7771 lbs) you get 3157 lbs. Using the same "logic" of calculating a GVWR of 91% of your GAWR your payload on a ram 3/4 crew cab 4x4 diesel is about 3,000 - 3,200 lbs. Another thing to consider is the actual weight rating of the axle itself. The axle is manufactured by AAM and actually has a weight rating from the manufacture of 10,900 lbs. So actually a 6,040 lbs or 7,000 lbs axle weight rating is well below the manufacture's rating. That being said I understand that the axle is only as strong as the weakest link (which is probably the coil link set up) and therefore you should try to stay within your axle weight ratings. That being said I believe that a single rear wheeled Ram 2500 vs a similar single rear wheeled Ram 3500 are more similar than they are different. I do think the true payload capacity of a similar single rear wheel ram 3500 is probably about 4,000 lbs and a 2500 is probably about 3,000 lbs. I believe that a ram 3500 and 2500 actually should only tow a small to medium sized fifth wheel; whereas if you get a large fifth wheel you probably should be towing it with a dually and not a 2500 (or 3500) single rear wheeled truck. If the 2500 was never truly meant to tow a fifth wheel or gooseneck with such a low payload then why would Ram even advertise that you can do such a thing? Another thing to consider is how many fifth wheels are there in the world that are being towed by a 2500 at any given time and are well over their stated payload capacity? Probably most are. Anyways, I appreciate what you guys do because you touch on a topic that most people towing RV's and Fifth wheels don't even consider- that they are over their payload- and addressing the question of how safe it actually is. In this particular case and perhaps only in this case do I actually think that you are probably safe to go a little bit over your payload on a 3/4 ton truck. BTW, I think it would be awesome if you guys could compare your 2500 towing your 5th wheel to the exact same 3500 version of your truck. It would be interesting to see how each one squats compared to the other, how well they tow and how stable they are. Thanks for the videos!
Thanks for the math lesson! Just got home with my truck and trailer - 7,000 miles (12,000 km) towing right across the states and home to Ontario. Watch for my next video detailing that trip - I've got lots of opinions after this trip.
Is it a question of whether or not the truck can handle it? or is it a question of what will the State Patrol do if they weigh you? Do they ever weigh trucks towing 5th wheels?
Yes, they can, and do, sometimes.@@JohnBorgen
@stevenjm8001 I'm on a road trip right now and actually saw it happen three days ago. I never noticed it before. This guy's was clearly overloaded.
Knowing that the rear axle is an AAM 11.5 and that it is actually rated at >10500 lbs, it is clear that the real weak link is the suspension and the combination of tires and rims, all of which can be upffitted or otherwise upgraded with aftermarket parts. And if you go to a certified upfitter and have the parts installed, they will actually give you a new sticker with new upgraded weight ratings. However, If you simply install those parts yourself, or have a shop that is not government certified install them, then you will be stuck with the same old now obsolete sticker in the door jam, regardless of the fact that in reality your truck is now much more capable of safely and effectively towing much heavier loads than the weight limits given it by the truck manufacturer would otherwise allow for. These guys are right, it isn't really about safety or capability, so much as it is about government regulations and control... You have to pay to play, and you have to pay the right people, if you want official approval for the decisions you make in life.
Good Show guys 👏👏👏 ..HAVE A BEAUTIFUL DAY EVERYONE..HAPPY MONDAY ✌️
You keep raising the bar of perfection and someone will have to create an Oscar for you guys. Content and presentation keeps me coming back for the next vlog....or should I call it a mini series...?
The axel rating are always higher than the gvwr for some reason and it's always like that. If you have a snow plow or load the bed with something heavy it's possible to overload your axel and be good on the gvwr , that's why they give gawr front and rear and gvwr rating. You are over your payload by 1080 lbs and a ram 3500 is what you need for sure .
So with the current setup, not only are you exceeding the payload of the Ram 2500 but you are also exceeding the 10K GVWR of the truck by 1,080 lbs. Credit to you guys for showing everything on video, but i would be a little hesistant towing that combination, given the liabliity of knowingly exceeding both the payload and GVWR of Howards Ram 2500.
Looks like some helper springs are needed in the rear. A little to much squat for my liking.
Thanks for posting this! Most people that have towed (especially heavy) will know what you're talking about.... That being said you're likely going to get alot (or already have alot - by the looks of it) people commenting on how you're illegally going over the factory ratings. I wonder if it may have been good to put a disclaimer on there that your'e not actually advising people of going over their payload... But that's up to you. Perhaps even for insurance and/or over-limit ticketing reasons....
The reality is, you're absolutely correct in terms of weights: If it's legal, it doesn't mean it's safe - and the opposite (in your case) may also be true. My old subaru ascent had a max tow rating of 5000lb. It had a max payload of 1400+lb as well. If I had towed my 5000lb trailer with that instead of my Toyota Sequoia which had a payload of only 1250lb, BUT a max towing capacity 9600lb. I was always a "bit" over payload in the Sequoia, but the stability and weight in front of the trailer mattered FAR more than the payload sticker. The difference between the two was staggering....
I'm glad you brought up the fact that the legal requirements change (in general) with GVW weights over 10,000lb opening up different legal requirements, thus the scaled back limits. It's also the same reason why the F450 dually and F350 dually BOTH carry 14,000lb gvw limits, yet the F450 is built stronger. Thus, the payload of the 450 is LOWER than the 350 because it's heavier, yet more stable/stronger towing platform. The only fear I have is that some uneducated people may end up watching this and thinking it's okay to load up beyond their advertised weight because they heard it on youtube... That being said, I like that you're honest about this, and my guess is you'll have many years of safe towing with your setup, even being a bit over the sticker.
Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's safe (see example I put above), and just because it's safe, doesn't mean it's necessarily legal (example in video). Can you imagine putting 7000lb behind a jeep gladiator? That's its rated max tow weight lol. The platform/tires/axles/braking/suspension/frame/wheelbase/track and driver experience etc all matter MORE than the sticker.
Has anyone gotten a ticket, or had any issues in the past with insurance not paying out because of being over limit?
I also have a Solitude 310GK and I tow with a 2017 Silverado 3500 Duramax long bed and I have found it helps keep pin weight down by traveling with a full water tank since the water tank is behind the rear axle. I also have a 500 lb frame mounted onan quiet diesel on the back of my 5er that takes a little more off the pin. I have a Curt 20k fifth wheel hitch with the factory puck mounting system and I also have a 60 gallon transfer tank and a tool box along with a ranchhand front bumper with 18k winch. My empty truck weight is 5600 on the front axle and about 4300 on the rear with full fuel, and I am about 7000 on my rear axle with the Solitude loaded like we normally travel. On one trip several years ago in the winter, I got to my local highway dept free drive across scale and noticed that I was 7500 on my rear axle and I couldn't understand why. Later that day I realized that there was a little ice in my freshwater tank valve that kept the valve from sealing correctly and I lost all of my fresh water resulting in increased pin weight. It was a cold day too, never got above 0 across the whole state of Wyoming. I have upgraded my rear tires to give me piece of mind on my rear axle. The tires are the limiting factor on the rear axle capacity in my opinion and I have stepped up to a 295/70R18 with a load rating of 4080 lbs ea and they pack the weight very well. I am still quite a bit over gross weight on my truck and even though it handles the load well, I might upgrade to a dually to give me a little bit of a cushion.
i like the fact it is lighter to load and unload , but the bumps are more noticeable in my 22/chevy 2500 plus it did make it squat more than my b&w . for me the ride was more important.
Do you have access to 2023 ram Meg cab with 6.7 with the side boxes. The bed seems to be taller. Just wondering about your thoughts on this.
Specifically he says “Mine is not a short bed”. Sure looks like a short bed to me. It may not be the super short bed available on the 1500, but it is the 6’4” bed, which is still shorter than 8’, and shorter than other manufacturer’s short bed trucks.
Great video, loved the interview with the people at Curt and the details of your specific rig.
Nice to listen to the engineer.
Good video
Regardless of what you guys think your truck is capable of, DOT laws say otherwise. The dry weight of that fver exceeds the manufacturers set payload rating of that truck. In the event of an accident, that's what will matter. I own a 2016 RAM 2500 Laramie diesel with around 2200 lbs of payload. I tow a 2021 Reflection "150 series" fver. All loaded up minus water weight, I am within 100 lbs of my max payload. I don't travel with full tanks. I don't know Canada's laws in terms of towing, gross weight, etc, I would imagine that they would be less forgiving, than they are in the states. As a seasoned truck driver, I take these kind of things seriously! What people don't realize, is that there are some states that have towing laws in place that require an endorsement. I've seen some ports that require people hauling RV's, both privately and commercially, to roll across the scales. The gap between the average driver and cdl driver is closing. More accountability to the average Joe towing his camper is coming! Perhaps, this is a good thing! Too many people out there purchasing RV's based on their trucks towing capacity alone! Great video though! I enjoyed it!
DOT does NOT look at manufacturers suggested payload numbers. They monitor and go by Axle weights, & tire weight ratings. My 2018 doesn't even have "payload" listed on a sticker.
@@Itsa_MeaYou are wrong. They 100% look at that. I know for a fact they do.
@@Mattman2500 tell me the scale house you were at that they specifically told you they're looking for your "payload capacity "? All they are checking are axle weights to compare to the axle & tire capacities. Like I said, my truck doesn't even have "Payload" on the sticker. So tell me the scale house that "YOU" experienced this. Anything else is 2nd hand fear mongering.
@QUICKVWBUG When you get an inspection. They check tires, axles, and your vehicles manufacturer GVWG and GVCWR. The fact that you think that doesn't matter says a lot. So, in your mind, a trailer with 2 7k axles can be loaded with a 14k machine 😆. The weight of your vehicle minus axle rating = payload. Now, the whole 10k fro 3/4 ton trucks is a legal thing. I promise you if you get into an accident over the manufacturer ratings . You'll learn real quick. So you do you and I'll do me. I think the laws are bs, but they're not hard to follow.
@@Mattman2500 it's a given you can't go over the GVWR for the truck and the GVWR of the trailer.
You are getting off topic, Tell me what weigh station you were at that they asked specifically to see PAYLOAD of the truck? If you cannot and never experienced that then you have NO argument.
You are correct that GVW is limited in most cases for these trucks by regulations and tax purposes and not really what the truck is actually capable of doing. I stay pretty close to the payload limit as a general rule but the main thing is the GAWR. You can always put some air bags in to help if there is a little too much sag. Another important point is that the weight is centered in the bed over the axle in gooseneck/fver setup rather than on the rear like a hitch/bumper pull.
People screaming "DOT says blah blah blah!". DOT doesn't give two craps as long as you're under 26K, not towing commercially, and don't have an insecure or obviously imbalanced combination.
True about tax reasons, and the engineered range is above the legal limit.
Wow.What a great set, very large trailer.Greetings from Poland.
Did this truck have the factory air bags or standard suspension??
I agree for this specific case (2500 and 3/4 tons) that payload is not engineered but "registered" to keep you below 10k. But that doesn't apply to half tons or 1 tons right? I wouldn't tow that load though, because there is no room for error, like filling your water/black tanks or putting something extra in the bed or a guest in the cab etc etc. If you bend your frame or hit the ditch or blow a tire, just not enough head room for my comfort level. I think your dad should sell that absolutely gorgeous truck to me ;)
Love the video
Well done video. Of course anything with engineers in it has to be good LOL
I have trouble with the "it's aluminum" bashing on the Andersen hitch when soooo many RV's sit on aluminum frames with very few negatives (a few model specific exceptions).
I say yes it’s over by looking at the rear end squat. If you had bags that would push the rear up more and ride level and possibly throw 80 pounds towards the rear of the camper getting you back within limits. If bags can’t do that, I’d still want to tow level. Maybe load the RV with some stuff in the rear of it, pushing it down which again will lift the front and take weight off the truck and let you ride level.
that hitch distribute the weight very good but not a on a rusty bed
What is the model number of the Curt CrossWing 5th wheel hitch that your Dad has? Is it the C92DR or the C32DR?
One of my concerns would be insurance. Exceeding any numbers is all the excuse they need to deny coverage in an accident, and an excuse for some lawyer to sue you for negligence. You need a bigger truck. You do not have the credentials to override the limits the engineers have established. Your actions endanger other motorists on the road, and encourage others to disregard safety parameters.
You aren't using you head. His axles are NOT over weight. That's what the law looks at. You can have a semi that recommends 52k gross, have it licensed for 80k lbs, and if the axles armt over loaded, it's legal. I have over 1 million miles hauling oversized loads with this exact setup.
Please list the cases where this occurred.
The 10,000 pound payload the manufacture assigned the vehicle is a rating, not a limit. His insurance will cover any accident he is in as long as he is current in his payments. (they may drop him afterwards). Him towing that 5'er with a well equipped 2500 is safer than these people towing a toy hauler with a lifted 3500 mall cruiser that meets the manufactures assigned ratings.
😂😂😂😂 whatever dude
@@sonsofliberty3081
1. A semi is NOT the same as a pickup truck.
2. Recommendations is not the same as ratings
3. There is more to it than just axel ratings. What about the frame? What about the brakes?
Did you weigh with or without driver and passenger? Also with an additional 100 lbs of hitch your drive axle would be a little more over weight. And a slider would be even heavier in most cases.
So you confirmed you are exceeding 2 of manufacturer ratings. In Canada, wouldn't that expose you to add'l legal liability or at least insurance not covering your truck and 5th wheel?
AFAIK. The ratings are just guidelines. There are vehicles with higher rating that tow worse than vehicles with lower ratings. It's a REALLY weird, inconsistent value that doesn't really determine the actual capability of the vehicles.
With how heavy some of these are getting certainly does raise questions.
But, I think the general "rule" is to be in control of the load and use your judgement.
@@onedankind Actually the ratings are not guidelines nor suggestions, they are legally binding.
@@PolarBear00777 Not everywhere. In fact the door stickers are a fairly new thing.
@@onedankind actually they are not a new thing, every single vehicle has always had it. They are simply much more specific now, with much more detailed information
@@PolarBear00777 Please provide a link. I am not aware of any law in the states that says you cannot exceed manufactures ratings.
What are the tires rated for?
Some of the same guys that will cry that you’re over payload and that you’re breaking the law have no problem driving home from the bar after sucking down 12 drinks.
Lmao great comment. It’s hard as hell to find the towing capacity on a ram..
Thank you Truck King for finally answering the lowered payload ratings on 3/4 ton+ trucks. You explained it well and Dad got to the bottom line, everything out there has to be under 10k or gubment is gonna take additional bite. I love the no BS not gonna sugar coat it attitude that is TRUCK KING baby.
My registration (22 Chevy 2500 Duramax 4wd) says it’s “class” is 10k-14k, or something like that.
If I’m not mistaken, the SRW 3500 with the SO CTD has the exact same axle your 2500 has and in the 3500 it’s rated for 7k lbs. not to mention, my 2500 w/6.4 Hemi has the exact same axle and for my application it’s rated @ 6,390 lbs……….
I know the 3500 has leafs vs coils in the 2500, focusing on the axle and the rating.
I can appreciate one’s opinion and to that, enjoy healthy discussions. I’m inclined to respectfully disagree that my statement about them having the same axle is misleading. The axle itself is the same, only difference being the mouting attachments for the suspension components. I acknowledged the spring types are different between the 2 platforms but weather it’s a leaf spring or coil spring, they are attached to an axle that is identical. The center section is the same, axle tubes are the same, ring & pinion is the same, differential is the same, axle shafts (length, thickness, and spline count) are the same, bearings are the same, brake rotors and calipers are the same, wheel studs and lug nuts are the same. Heck, if the trim package is the same, the wheels and tires are the same. Reading your opening remark, it’s a false statement if there is no context and one could argue misleading itself. The leaf springs spec’d for the Ram 3500 have a higher capacity than the coils spec’d for the Ram 2500 which nets the 3500 a higher load carrying capacity but there are coils that are in fact rated at a higher capacity than a leaf springs, just say’n. Anyway, the point of my initial remark was meant to highlight the strength or “beef” of the rear axle and it capability, not the suspension or spring rates. Last but not least, I’ll add the Disclaimer: I don’t work for Ram and I’m not an engineer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!
What about the frame thickness?
@xk302a No apologies needed sir, you make a valid point. Reading my post over again, I too apologize if I came across snarky.
@garebare48 the frame is the same. Matter of fact, 2500 and 3500 are identical save for spring rates up front and the aforementioned coils vs leafs.
So to sum it up, this video is commentary around your justification process of why it is ok to ignore the manufacturer's ratings saying it is not ok to tow this but you say it is. The ratings are meaningless. Got it.
Well said!
Most of the ratings are accurate and important. However payload is a problem. You explain how my payload plus curb weight adds up to exactly 10,000 lb. My friends highly contented 2500 Ram has a lower payload than mine, higher curb weight and again adds up to exactly 10,000 lb.
@@TruckKing You must of kicked Grandma out the truck
@@TruckKing payload is payload. If you have a tradesman, less luxury options/weight, it'll have a higher payload than a Laramie or limited as those have extra components, options that add weight. If you go over the manufacturer recommended then you also void any warranty from them as well.
Its possible that if you shifted weight inside the trailer to the rear you wouldn't be overweight. Maybe right on it?
You guys are overthinking things and going way to deep in the weeds. Keep it simple If you exceeded any of the manufacturer recommending numbers you are opening yourself up to liability and a lawsuit if things go wrong. You need a bigger truck. A good rule of thumb is 70% of manufacture recommendations. That keeps you safe from the vultures I mean ambulance chasers I mean attorney sorry lol
You are not wrong. But I for one want to know the limits of the equipment I own. That's what spured this investigation.
@@TruckKingthe manufacturer has already found the limits. That's why you have payload and tow ratings.
Having watched this a couple of times as we r looking to go from a tag along to 5th wheel. I can't find info on the Curt attachment u show, any ideas or contact info for them would b greatly appreciated and even welcomed as a pinned attachment to video. Thanks for this video and info you've shared.
it is on Curt’s website - called the Crosswing,
Interesting video. Just my opinion. I think that the payloads of most 2500s are low, and one should really look at 3500s if you wanted to carry a large payload, tow a large fifth wheel, or carry a slide-camper. 2500 are fine for smaller fifth wheels, light-weight slide-in campers, or bumper pull trailers.
Just curious, what was in the truck at the time of weighing? People, if so, how many? Was the truck fully fueled up?
What that rear axle number mean is that you shouldn't load up the truck with additional people and gear, other than what you had in the truck at the time of weighing.
Just a thought, you could probably pack gear into the rear trailer storage compartments (if it has any), rather than the front compartments, to shift some of that excess weight rearwards and off the rear axle of the truck.
What you say is fact, not opinion! Only certain mid profile fifth wheels should be towed with a 2500.
The main difference between 2500 and 3500 is the leaf springs. So, get some air bags… problem solved.
Great video, and super informative. I just wish Kristi wouldn’t have talked as much 😅 Genuinely enjoyed hearing Joel explain things.
Love the quality of Grand Design products. Great choice. Any issues so far? Even with GD slides still make me nervous. We are looking at a GD Imagine XLS21bhe.
I was doing some research on a truck payload capacity for carrying a truck camper and what I understood was that the GAWR listed on the truck sticker is limited by the OEM wheels and tires. The actual GAWR of the axle manufacturer can be higher than the sticker number and if you upgrade the tires and wheels to a higher load rating ones (and maintain proper tire pressure) then it should be safe to go over the sticker GAWR rating (while staying below the axel, tire and wheels rating).
Good point. Type of tires do play a big role, and that's something we didn't even touch on.
Won’t the cops and insurance go by the sticker?
@@garysarratt1 yeah it’s never good to think it “should” be okay to go over a certain rating even if it sometimes seems logical what the bottleneck is. I personally think payloads and GVWRs are somewhat arbitrary like TK alluded to but I’d still never advocate for someone to push the limits.
How will they know how much weight you had? You should still go to a scale and make sure that your GAWR is under your max axle, tires and wheels combination payload to safely operate the vehicle.
@@xk302aSeems like many people don’t understand that. Yet they drive in the fast lane at 80 mph.
Finally somebody has it correct ! !
Axle rating does not include the suspension package the truck is rated with, even you tpms system is programed different. And your load sticker will tell you that. sorry guys. My f250 with 4.30 and Dana, has same rear axle as a f350 srw and f350 drw but cannot carry the same weight for obvious reasons.
Now to balance all of it just shift a bit a weight to the back of the trailer because your loose on the trailer and you would release some weight on the drive just like what i do in a day to day truck driving we shitf sometimes the axles on the trailer but on fix axles you just play whit your load no biggie
Add more weight behind the trailer axle, as long as it is within the safe % distribution of the trailer. it'll lower the weight on the hitch.
I did that exact thing. After a day on the road, moved the bins from the forward storage to the floor in the rear of the trailer. I scaled it again and had moved 200 lbs off my pin weight.
Brilliant, first common sense comment i've read on here, instead of thoughtless negativity, I would also imagine rear bags would help level the truck and redistribute some of the weight
And in the ditch you go!
Great video. Im sure the comments are filled with haters at this point. I appreciate your openness and explanations on the Payload for your specific truck.
Any recent updates on your Toyo AT3’s. I will be in the market for tires in the next 3 to 4 months and I’m curious how yours are holding up. I appreciate any insight.
Just towed 2800 miles to Arizona. Toyo’s continue to wear well and they handled the road and weight.
I just put these on my 2013 Ram 2500 Cummins after watching your videos on them. Liking them so far. We will see how they handle towing the 32 ft fifth wheel this spring! Enjoy Arizona
Air bags would bring that back to a safe area. Level back out and put a little of that weight back on the front end.
And, I tow a 5th wheel with a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. My truck's total weight is 10,700 lbs. (800 lbs overweight) when towing my trailer, which is 5,000 lbs lighter than yours.
Maybe this has already been asked, but after doing all this if you had it to do over would you buy a heavier duty truck or a lighter trailer, or just stay with what you’ve got?
So, I'm sitting in Arizona as I write this. After towing 2800 miles from Ontario I do have an opinion. Here are the facts. The truck handled the load. Was it a good drive though? No. Biggest issue are crosswinds. The trailer is 13'5" and it would start rocking side to side as the wind hit it. I'd have to drop speed to get it to stop. Here is the thing. What works on paper may not work in real time in real weather on the road. I'll be covering all this in my next video. So, at this point I'd rather have the 3500 - and that is probably what I'll do when I get home.
@@TruckKing I look forward to seeing that next video as I’ve been debating between doing the trailer thing myself or just keep renting a place when we take a trip Thx.
@@TruckKing I too, towed to AZ from Ont with exactly same truck but my 5th was slightly smaller at 32' & 8K dry, mine was a toy hauler thou. Across the scales I was 19,800lbs, it never had sway, wind issues you had. I was super happy with the way it towed. I'm guessing my pin weight at 1,900 because toy hauler is loaded heavier to the rear. I knew the minute I saw your vid you were overloaded, you imply barely but did you weigh with full occupants, full fuel, part water, back seat stuffed as most long distance travelers do! Getting a 3,500 when you return is good idea, If you had had an accident insurance co could easily have googled you, found this video & cancelled your insurance payout, not a pleasant position to be in.
@@TruckKing I would also add if the trailer is rocking side to side that would indicate trailer springs that are to light for the load, since truck/trailer connection allows trailer to rock back & forth according to road undulations it really has nothing to do with trailer stability.
It has to be a very small trailer before my 09 Honda Pilot would be able to pull it. 🙂
Wasn't impressed on the distance between the truck and trailer when turning the truck. It wasn't anywhere near 90 degrees which is what is sometimes needed to back into camping sites.
Thank you for such and informative video. I've been looking for this type of video to explain this hitch. Others I've watched have to much fluff not enough content. That's the reason I enjoy your videos all meat and potatoes no fluff.
I watched an "Autoline Detroit" program about pickup truck weight ratings. The engineers who were in charge of the designs of the 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton trucks said "yes, they are rated to pull x amount of weight. We keep raising the weights because the customers want higher weight ratings. They can pull the weight, but we are NOT saying you SHOULD pull that much weight. Anytime you are maxing out your weights, everything becomes not good enough. Brakes, suspensions etc.. Unless you are an engineer, associated with THESE trucks, you are NOT qualified to make those judgements.
😂
Wrong ! Payload ALSO includes fuel, people, pets, weight of the hitch itself, anything else in the bed and back seat on top of the pin weight. You could be as much as 5-700 lbs over and in Texas they will either ticket you or impound the vehicle and trailer.
We weighed the truck again when we left for our trip, to make sure all weights were accounted for.
Do you know anyone personally who has been given an overweight ticket in Texas when towing a fifth-wheel travel trailer? Genuinely curious.
Not personally but a friend in Texas said to be careful as they do stop people and check the specs of the truck and trailer. My personal truck has a 2170 lb payload but I usually buy a trailer that has around a 1300 - 1500 lb pin weight that way I have a 6-700 lb pad for payload. For me also a lighter trailer gets me better MPG too. Mine weights dry 8270 with a 1600 lb give. Been towing for 42 yrs and have see. Many overturned rigs. 3/4 ton trucks towing 40’+ fivers. 😬 Also did autobody repair for 34 yrs so I’ve seen it all.
This is a guy in Texas and is VERY knowledgeable about RVs and other types of trailers , be it flatbeds, dumpbeds and travel trailers. He did a video several yrs back about the police monitor trucks pulling RVs.
ua-cam.com/video/w56PslTp2EE/v-deo.html
See knew it, the truck frame is the real limitation. If the frame don’t bend I guess. Haha.
Oh no, the Rear gawr is over. The towing police are coming. Jk. Happy towing guys!
Nice video, here are all the specs. truck GVWR, GFAWR, GRAWR, GCVWR, trailer GVWR, GAWR, you are over on 3 for your truck. not good.
if rvers had to go over weigh scales like truckers have to i wonder how many would be over weight i betcha dot would have a hay day.and rvers would have a empty bank account for fines.
Big fan of you guys. 3/4 ton trucks tow triple axle toyhaulers all the time down here in the states, and most of the time get away with it just fine. However, publicly putting this kind of advice out there from a well respected source such as your channel, this ain’t it. The ways this could be used against you guys could be very ugly.
We all have done and will continue to do this, but I wouldn’t talk about it on this kind of platform.
We don't give advice - we simply report our own experiences. If this stimulates discussion - that's what we want. I'd never advise anyone to ignore published limits.
The weight police will be out in force over this one. LOL
Way to stir the pot. I pull a bumper pull but find this topic entertaining. Good work on the vid.
I agree that the payload numbers on the 2500 are a bit conservative per the GuvMent 10K Limit. This would be a good topic to do another vid on in the future… history of the Class2B federal standards. Maybe some state by state legal difference of interpretation. Even info on why some states will let you license your vehicle above the 10K limit.
I think staying under axel ratings and having correctly rated tires is the key when looking at capacity of the 2500.
Even more curious is why RAM changed rear axle ratings… I looked on the Ram site previously but can’t find it right now… Good news is that my 2017 could pull your trailer and be under the axel ratings as my REAR GAWR is 6500 not 6000. I think the numbers changed in 2018 if I remember correctly.
Were you in the ALT Trailer setting?
This can be such a confusing topic - then add in the potential govt regs - yes we will continue to investigate and report.
ua-cam.com/video/yXaB6bbrlLk/v-deo.html This part in particular is mostly correct but I just want to point out. The further the hitch point is away from the axle the more you're moment increases. It's like a giant lever. Moment = force x distance. Simple engineering formula. In some instances it isn't that much, however in others it can mean your truck is well overweight. As a great example. Hold your arm out in front of you parallel to the ground and make a fist. With your other hand push on your fist, then push on your forearm. You can use the same force however its much easier to push your arm down the further away from you elbow/shoulder(depending exactly how you placed your arm in front of you) you are. Your truck experiences the exact same forces.
You are over 1,000 lb beyond your GVWR. And you have overloaded your rear axle. What good could come from this? I am shocked actually put this on UA-cam.
I still have not heard anyone address the soft braking issues associated with running these heavy loads. The truck frame and all will likely handle things fine but the brakes exc will not. And with an inexperienced driver could be a bad combination.
Yup and that's the issue there's not enough brake power for those heavier loads. U get up words of 28k on or behind that truck it handled it fine but you start using those brakes they will fade really quickly. And unless you know how to handle this situation after there hot your in trouble and if your going down a steep hill your in even more trouble. Regardless you need more brakes on all the ram lineups. But there are ways you can improve the brakes on them but it's very limited u need size and the ability to shed heat fast.
It’s either overloaded or it’s not. It looks overloaded dragging its ass. Your numbers prove it’s overloaded. And it’s likely empty? Guessing it not set up as you would tow it cross country with full gear and tanks? How’s it stop in an emergency situation is what I’m concerned with. Sure that Cummins will tow that up Mount Everest all day. But if you’re burning up the brakes and hitting the sand traps going down the other side it’s a scary scary ride.
At the end of the day, as you said lots of numbers and video only shows so much. I’m guessing when you’re fully loaded you’re likely more over than you think. Let’s see a Cat slip just as you leave for vacation.
In their defense, the exhaust brake on the Cummins is incredible!! They won't burning up their brakes anytime soon!
I have scaled it twice - and I'll deal with that in the next video. I can tell you now though that it hauled to Arizona OK. But, it was not a good drive - and that is what often happens. On paper it was OK - on the road, not so much.
@@TruckKing I appreciate the response and the honesty. In my experience, I've never felt good driving anything that was dragging it's ass. The front end gets too light and the tail starts wagging the dog. Very much looking forward to the next video and your thoughts on the drive to Arizona and what that Cat ticket fully loaded looked like.
You are concern about the stoping power of a cummins with the best exaust brake of the big three ? You have never drive a ram h.d for sure . Pulling and braking is really not a issu with the cummins.
@@yourelectricman just go to tfl truck and look at ike gauntlet test with ram 3500 , gmc 3500 and f350. 30 000 pound trailer and no need to apply brake with the ram , only exaust brake to maintain 60 mph with this much weight going down
My 2 cents is ..the math don’t lie and there is no way you can tell that a truck is not dangerously overloaded by how it feels to you , To many unknowns like mountain passes emergency braking sure it feels good running down a flat road but that’s not what we worry about when talking weights and numbers
Over GAWR (6120 vs 6040)
Over GVWR (11080 vs 10000)
DOT has entered the chat 🕵️♂️
If you’re towing a 5th-wheel travel trailer with a 2500 diesel, chances are you’re overweight. These trucks just don’t have the payload capacity to support a trailer greater than 8000 lbs
This isn’t true. I’ve seen GM 2500’s with payload numbers close to 3300#. He would have plenty of payload with a specific trim level Duramax.
You’re correct, GM and Ford have higher GVWR on their diesels compared to gas.
When you option a diesel on the Ford F250 you get an axel upgrade and GVWR is increased from 10000 to 11400. GM 2500HD trucks have GVWR upgraded to 11150. This allows them to keep the same payload numbers.
RAM don’t seem to do anything to account for the 1000 lbs weight increase that comes with a turbo diesel drivetrain, it all eats into your payload going from 2940 lbs down to a measly 2050 lbs
@@NIAtoolkit That is why one should pick their RV first and then buy a truck to match. Not the other way around?
You have captured this issue perfectly. This is the question I came up with.
My truck has a combined Axle weight rating of 12,060 lbs. But my GVWR is 10,000lb. What about the other 2,060 of capacity?
that truck doesn’t look like it is squatted very much either.
It's not an issue until it's an issue. Truck can easily take the weight until you're reporting an accident to the insurance company....and Lord help you if there's injuries to another party. Great video and content as usual Gents! 👍👍
They're are no issues with the insurance company. They will pay the bill. They may drop you afterwards but they will cover you.
This is always a touchy subject. Personally, these numbers are why I went with the Duramax. My towing is 18.5k, so about 3% less, but my cargo capacity is 3,350, so 50% more. My gooseneck travel trailer is almost the exact same weight as yours, but I felt so much better having the extra cargo weight with mine. Mine tows mine like it’s nothing, and the ride is pretty good. Either way, I’m well within all my numbers. I also have a family friend with a 2018 version of your truck loaded with a truck camper and still pulls various trailers. He’s definitely exceeded his payload, though he does have the rear airbag suspension, and he’s never had a problem. Sometimes you just never know until the rubber hits the road.
We belive that axle rating numbers are "hard numbers" meaning real. Problem is payload. It's a number without any real explanation - and none of the manufacturers will tell us how they come up with it.
Ram 2500 air bags you’re set.
I would trade the Ram for a higher rated rear axle truck. Sure they have the right tool for the job in Arizona. 🌵
Yes, I've found the limits of my current combination and over the long haul its not a good drive. Time to upgrade.
Max trailer tow for 2500 cummins is 20k
This video in a nut shell. I bought a diesel because it can pull anything. WRONG lol
I own the same truck. It's not just the payload. The GVWR is 9900 lbs.
Your truck is 1180 lbs. overweight. It's that simple. If you drive over an MTO scale, they would most likely tell you to park the trailer. Buy a 3500 truck.
If you haul this configuration and get into an accident, even if it's not your fault, your insurance will not cover you when the investigator (Physicist) from the DOT comes out and determines you are beyond the manufacturer's specifications not only will you be subject to a Civil suit (massive Fines, jail time), but a Private suit (good buy house) for negligence from the family in the other vehicle. And you better not have any equity because that suit will take your house.
Do you know anyone that this has happened to? We would very much like to report on that story, if you can provide an actual example of this EVER happening.
Regarding the discussion on private legal matters, it's important to remember why they are termed 'private'. A key point to note is that many auto insurance policies do not cover charges related to negligence, which is especially relevant in serious instances. This includes charges such as Criminal Negligence Causing Death (under Criminal Code Section 220) or Dangerous Operation of a Motor Vehicle (under Criminal Code Section 320.13). Additionally, compliance with various motor vehicle safety regulations (C.R.C., c. 1038), provincial and territorial legislation, municipal bylaws, and manufacturer specifications is crucial.
A commonly misunderstood aspect in legal terms is the concept of accident foreseeability. It’s a nuanced area and depends on whether a risk could have reasonably been anticipated, regardless of fault.
For those seeking specific examples or in-depth understanding, consulting with local law enforcement legal professionals, or even referring to ASME standards can be informative. Although ASME is more aligned with engineering standards, it offers insight into how legal and operational limits differ from engineering tolerances.
Taking an example from engineering, pipelines are often designed well above their Maximum Allowable Working Pressure (MAWP). For instance, a system like ANSI600, PN100, which operates at around 68BAR, can be hydro-tested to 1.5 times that pressure. This is to ensure safety before reaching the threshold where materials begin to deform. However, this engineering principle does not translate directly to automotive standards.
In the context of road vehicles, it's essential to adhere to the legal registered weight. Overloading can have serious legal and safety implications, as I've witnessed in my over 10 years in the Oil Field/Plants Processing/Heavy Hauling sector. Deaths due to overloading are tragically common in this field.
With a Class-1 license, a diploma in Engineering, and legal training, I've gathered a fair amount of knowledge in these areas. However, I always encourage doing your own research to complement the information shared here, as the field is vast and ever-evolving.
I am not the towing police but I was the police for 20 years. If you are in a serious motor vehicle accident - regardless of fault - not only will you be open to civil liability but you could be held resonsible criminally.
So... if my rig is underweight and I wipe out a bus load of nuns - I have not responsibility? Cool.
@Truck King Well most certainly you'd be screwed - but if you're overweight and that same bus wipes you out - you'll be sued by every family that had a kid on the bus and get a date in traffic court.
I don't understand why anyone would want a rig that exceeds the weight capacity of the truck...?? Why? It is so easy to just get a one ton single rear wheel (3500) or a dually.
If max tow is 18,000# than how is 21,600# within it’s limits? That doesn’t make any sense.
Don’t know where you got that from. Watch it again.
And FYI for people reading, paying is everything in the truck. So don’t just think you’re only 190lbs over because of the 2110lbs payload and 2300lbs tongue weight. You boys look to be about 400 plus, then the camera, bed cover, added mud flaps, snacks, water etc. you guys are pushing 700lbs over payload. That’s a lot.
seems like the tail waging the dog. put the trailer on and see if the truck fits? never had a use for short bed trucks and worrying about all those clearances when turning loading or driving is nuts if off road you got nothing. upgrade truck already. as for liability it is ashame to pay for insurance that may be null and void
Better watch out... You might bend the frame... Especially if it's a Diesel motor
I really hate to see people towing with a unlevel truck, headlights pointing to the moon and light on the steering tires. Absolutely no consideration of oncoming traffic at night.
Anyone can make the argument that what you're doing is ok or legal, but there's plenty of lawyers that could argue that you are knowingly exceeding your trucks limits and are illegal. Now that you've posted a video where you admit the exceeded limit, pleading ignorance in court is moot. A blowout on a single rear wheel while towing isn't something you want to experience. Get a 3500 DRW and be safe and legal
So I must say I am very disappointed. The Specifications that manufacturers put are important and not just arbitrary numbers. Payload is calculated based on full tank of fuel and only a driver of 125lbs in the truck with a bare truck, no running boards, no hitch, no nothing. All of those need to be subtracted from the total number specified by the manufacturer. As well, the under 10000lbs GVWR is not in any way a gov limitation, it's a customer choice to avoid having to do yearly inspections and to have to stop at the scales! I am a GM guy, you can get the same 2500HD with a 9900lbs GVWR, a 10350lbs, 10550lbs, 11000lbs and 11200lbs GVWR, these are all dependant on tire and wheel size along with some other subtle differences. Only the 9900lbs GVWR avoids the yearly inspections. You cannot legally exceed any of the numbers even if the total GCVWR is under the max number, the pin weight alone causes a legal issue. In the even of an accident, you would be held liable in every aspect. I have a colleague who currently has an AT4 2500HD and got a great deal on a new 5th wheel...he towed it home then realized that he is so far over the payload, he has the 9900lbs GVWR that to be legal he is selling his 2500HD and buying a 3500HD, he is well within the GCVWR but exceeds his payload by over 1500lbs, between the pin weight, the hitch, and people in the truck. Sad that your channel is endorsing unsafe towing practices, very disappointed! For an great video explaining payload and an excel spreadsheet to do the calculations to see if you are truly legal, see the following link: truthinlovecanada.com/rv-safety-payload-and-towing/
We published an opinion - not an endorsement. In the same way you can and did share your opinion.
Wow I am appalled at the willingness to show everyone that you are negligent and inviting, should something bad happen, for an attorney to put you in the soup kitchen line. And rather than help to get this situation off the road, instead you encourage it. Please people don’t perpetuate this.
Your truck is only licensed for 10000#
You are missing a passenger and luggage, which will add weight too. Saying feeling trumps the design and numbers is bullshit
Feeney is a smokeshow
Sorry boys, I am generally a fan. You can sugar coat it any way you would like, but you are over weight despite all the splainin you do. Should have bought more truck to tow that big boy around.
Anderson hitches suck
What a bunch of snowflakes on here. There’s no safety issues here. He just explained the whole reason behind the manufacture numbers on that truck. Realistically the payload is probably closer to 3500#
Can’t believe you’re driving that weak Ram when the Silverado HD has better numbers and does the job way way better.