Oh my goodness. I absolutely relate to this. I recently did a Human Form only second playthrough and since I had Null Attack and Null Element I wanted to invest into different stats for Serph. Apparently I read Strength does little to nothing for Guns so I fully invested into Luck because I heard it increases critical rate and item drops. I really wanted that critical rate because Guns need them to be able to dish out damage. I was absolutely livid when I discovered the Luck was super insignificant and thought to myself "Man, I could have dumped the points into way better stats."
Here's an idea I have for how stats could work: Strength: Physical attack power as well as a MINOR impact on HP Magic: MP, Magic Attack and a minor impact on Magic Defence Vitality: MAJOR impact on HP, Defence & Magic Defence, also helps against Instant Death Agility: Accuracy, Evasion as well as a minor impact on Defence and Crit Rate Luck: Helps with Ailments, Instant Death, drops as well as Item potency to a slight degree, has a slightly higher impact on Crit Rate than Agility.
When I made my own SMT-TT system, here's what I did for stats: Strength: Melee attacks add this. Add this to Slash, Bash and Pierce Mystic Skills. Endurance: Damage Resistance and 1/2 of Ailment Resistance. Magic: Added to the many Magic based Mystic Skills. If a Demon has "Elemental Manipulation" (aka can use "Magic" of the element outside of just attacking), add 1/2 Magic to it's Damage. Agility: Dodge and you add 1/2 Agility to Single target ranged attacks. Also the Stat used for Gun mystic skills (counts as Pierce but has lower damage and higher crit. Also uses a different stat). Luck: 1/2 to Ailment Resistance. Effects Ailment chances. So very close and tell me what you guys think.
Oh my god i hate in the nes and snes games how your protagonist couldn't cast magic but you could still raise their intelligence, i never understood that at all, like WHYYY IT RUINED MANY OF MY FIRST PLAYTHROUGHS
INT in the SNES Megaten games affected how easily you recruited demons and magnetite drain iirc. Also MAG was effectively useless in the SNES games yes, but it did offer minor bonuses to the same things iirc. I'd have to go look up the exact numbers. But yeah putting points into STR, VIT and AGI were always more beneficial anyway.
I love Pokemon and FE cuz every stat is told to you exactly what it does and and how it interacts with any ability it interacts with. My biggest issue is how Magic defense works. IN SOME FUCKING GAMES IT VIT/EN IN OTHER GAMES ITS FUCKING MAGIC. IN P4 AND P5 ONE OF THEM USES EN FOR THIS OTHER IS JUST MAGIC, BOTH GAMES USE THE SAME STAT DESCRIPTION AND EVERYONE RIGHTFULLY IS CONFUSED. Good video, sorry for all caps rant, it just is a huge pet peeve of mine and I needed to get it out.
I think they looked at how very old SMT game protags would ignore Magic and then decided that they should make Magic useful for everyone; even at the expense of gimping others, and then forgot about ensuring the opposite end of the spectrum doesn't happen.
remember the time smt iv ruined the str stat by making it half as effective on the generally stronger physical skills as dex does or how level in nocturne eventually makes magic damage go down lmao
Persona 3 4 and 5 do let you minmax your personas but the methods in which you use are all different between games and aren't as obvious as picking stats at at a level up screen. It also flies in the face of the main gameplay loop considering how your not really supposed to stick with one persona for that long anyway (look at the level up movesets for your starter personas, their all much worse than with the party members). Still, I did an Izanagi only run of P4G and it went just fine because of all the options the game throws at you to get stronger. You can walk out of the 3rd dungeon with Megidoloan if you get the right cards enough times in shuffle time.
oh no I understand the stat cards in Persona games. That's why I mentioned that players usually use stat cards to level up during shuffle time as a challenge, it's their version of a nuzlocke. But like you said, you're really just meant to fuse up.
I love that in 4 and 4A that Magic can Crit and Physical attacks use mp now. I'd be fine with them using hp but it's always a percentage, why not a flat number like with Magic?
Man i sure loved being a speedster at smt iv, my builds were pretty much just dexterity, physical or magic, and agility and it paid off almost every time, specially at the dlc vs sanat, when he spammed gaea rage Flynn ended up alone and killed him with myriad arrows
@@NobleAbsinthe between 300 and 320(after equipment) while the offensive stat reamined at 230 or so, big damage number and sure hits while always dodging enemys attacks its just too good
Smt 4 was so magic centric, it made every other stat a joke. It actually felt like a over correction from nocturne, where physical builds simply made the top builds of the game. That being said, the game needing stat redistribution the most was devil survivor. Some of the routes are near unwinnable with the wrong build late game.
I'm trying to think of others but all I can come up with is, most MMORPGs, Monster Hunter, League of Legends, Dark Souls, Tales of, and Valkyria. Disgaea has stupid high numbers that I understand why they wouldn't bother.
@@terrelllofton4113 Soul Hackers has a weird damage calculation formula. Zio is like Power 4, and Zionga Power 44. That doesn't mean that Zionga is 10x stronger, it just adds to the end result.
Oh wow this is great video about the topic I'm interested in, always ask what the point of having RPG game where you select Which stats to gain on level up, as I always prefer the game does that for me.
Beat DDS1 a few days ago and I went with a STR, AGI, VIT build. I ended up feeling like AGI wasn't doing much. I'm almost done with DDS2 and I barely invested in AGI. I just threw a few points on occasion when I started missing hits in random encounters, and to keep my AGI roughly in the range of my other party members. I did feel like AGI worked better in Nocturne.
AGI gets weaker the more points you put into it in Nocturne because of how they used it for turn calls. After a certain cut off you actually get SLOWER as you level up.
Stats is kinda of one of those stuffs that JRPGs never managed to get right. Stats systems in tabletop games rocks, you have basically 3 stats to cast spells, each with their own pros and cons, there is a clear diference between Dex and Str, and Con is important for literally every build, and every stat has a platheta of uses outside of combat. Combining two or more stats can make for a lot of unique and fun characters, i really wish Atlus would take this approach to the SMT games, because their status system kinda sucks ass tbh
Hmmm, maybe they would benefit from having a stat distribution more akin to Pokémon or FromSoft games it seems. Here's an idea: -Vitality is HP and MP -Resilience is Physical Defense -Adaptability is Magic Defense -Mind is Magic attack & Magic points to a lesser extent. -Might is Physical attack and HP to a lesser extent. -Agility is the usual speed stat, some attacks might require this instead of Might or Mind (to give some variety). -Fortune is the chance of item drops, getting affected by negative status effects (included instant-death ones) and critical hits.
I think the real issue of agility as a stat is that you don't care in random encounters because they aren't that much of a threat and in bosses you can Sukukaja/Sukunda once or twice if you have trust issues and you agility deficit doesn't matter. Luck is a joke stat in all games and I feel you are severly underestimating how much Vitality reduces damage. You don't need it to not get oneshot but you can really become discustingly tanky when you actually invest in it. Also, Persona works exactly like mainline so IDK what is special about it's system in this discussion?
In case of focusing the Demi-fiend on the use of Magic, what would be the main stats to raise? Apart from Magic obviously, and in case of focusing on Strenght, what stats would be the main ones? What do you recommend for each build?
I mean any game that allows you to min max is by design broken. Like in DDS I built a Tanky Magic build. I was taking like 2 damage from magic hits at 99 magic. For some reason I found out that Magic increases your magic defense.
I'm was actually playing Digital Devil Saga on my PS3 today when I saw your video. I would really love to see your take on SMT 5, since it screws up stats completely and scales all the stats off level, meaning you MUST grind levels and your skill doesn't matter as much. Not a fan of that!!!
@@spudsbuchlaw I checked out the first link you sent and the guy showed that Atlus is just EVIL. Who programs a game to SUBTRACT dmg from player level? Thank you so much for showing me his channel, I now have to watch his stuff. Btw, I hope you enjoy my SMT content, and stick around for more? What else would you like to see?
@@NobleAbsinthe Yeah, I've seen someone be on every drug know to man, and they were more stable than a Nocturne programmer. Level also does things like make you lose more Macca from Confusion/panic as seen I. The Luck episode. Oh boay the luck episode... Glad you check out their channel, and I am am digging anyone's SMT content!
Oh my goodness. I absolutely relate to this.
I recently did a Human Form only second playthrough and since I had Null Attack and Null Element I wanted to invest into different stats for Serph. Apparently I read Strength does little to nothing for Guns so I fully invested into Luck because I heard it increases critical rate and item drops. I really wanted that critical rate because Guns need them to be able to dish out damage.
I was absolutely livid when I discovered the Luck was super insignificant and thought to myself "Man, I could have dumped the points into way better stats."
Here's an idea I have for how stats could work:
Strength: Physical attack power as well as a MINOR impact on HP
Magic: MP, Magic Attack and a minor impact on Magic Defence
Vitality: MAJOR impact on HP, Defence & Magic Defence, also helps against Instant Death
Agility: Accuracy, Evasion as well as a minor impact on Defence and Crit Rate
Luck: Helps with Ailments, Instant Death, drops as well as Item potency to a slight degree, has a slightly higher impact on Crit Rate than Agility.
When I made my own SMT-TT system, here's what I did for stats:
Strength: Melee attacks add this. Add this to Slash, Bash and Pierce Mystic Skills.
Endurance: Damage Resistance and 1/2 of Ailment Resistance.
Magic: Added to the many Magic based Mystic Skills. If a Demon has "Elemental Manipulation" (aka can use "Magic" of the element outside of just attacking), add 1/2 Magic to it's Damage.
Agility: Dodge and you add 1/2 Agility to Single target ranged attacks. Also the Stat used for Gun mystic skills (counts as Pierce but has lower damage and higher crit. Also uses a different stat).
Luck: 1/2 to Ailment Resistance. Effects Ailment chances.
So very close and tell me what you guys think.
Luck stat also increases item drop rate
Edit: don't forget luck stat also increases change land critical hit
Oh my god i hate in the nes and snes games how your protagonist couldn't cast magic but you could still raise their intelligence, i never understood that at all, like WHYYY IT RUINED MANY OF MY FIRST PLAYTHROUGHS
INT in the SNES Megaten games affected how easily you recruited demons and magnetite drain iirc. Also MAG was effectively useless in the SNES games yes, but it did offer minor bonuses to the same things iirc. I'd have to go look up the exact numbers. But yeah putting points into STR, VIT and AGI were always more beneficial anyway.
@@Entropic_Alloy int is just luck, and luck is for nerds
Just remember, Magic canonically gives you Smooth Moves straight up like a certain Specialist canonically given SMT 2's Moon Pillar requirement.
I love Pokemon and FE cuz every stat is told to you exactly what it does and and how it interacts with any ability it interacts with. My biggest issue is how Magic defense works. IN SOME FUCKING GAMES IT VIT/EN IN OTHER GAMES ITS FUCKING MAGIC. IN P4 AND P5 ONE OF THEM USES EN FOR THIS OTHER IS JUST MAGIC, BOTH GAMES USE THE SAME STAT DESCRIPTION AND EVERYONE RIGHTFULLY IS CONFUSED. Good video, sorry for all caps rant, it just is a huge pet peeve of mine and I needed to get it out.
In SMT nocturne vit just give you hp.
@@leixalkvinay2729 I thought VIT didn't exist in SMT IV
I think they looked at how very old SMT game protags would ignore Magic and then decided that they should make Magic useful for everyone; even at the expense of gimping others, and then forgot about ensuring the opposite end of the spectrum doesn't happen.
We really need more smt video essays
Not all heroes wear capes thanks these videos are very cool
remember the time smt iv ruined the str stat by making it half as effective on the generally stronger physical skills as dex does
or how level in nocturne eventually makes magic damage go down lmao
Persona 3 4 and 5 do let you minmax your personas but the methods in which you use are all different between games and aren't as obvious as picking stats at at a level up screen. It also flies in the face of the main gameplay loop considering how your not really supposed to stick with one persona for that long anyway (look at the level up movesets for your starter personas, their all much worse than with the party members). Still, I did an Izanagi only run of P4G and it went just fine because of all the options the game throws at you to get stronger. You can walk out of the 3rd dungeon with Megidoloan if you get the right cards enough times in shuffle time.
oh no I understand the stat cards in Persona games. That's why I mentioned that players usually use stat cards to level up during shuffle time as a challenge, it's their version of a nuzlocke. But like you said, you're really just meant to fuse up.
I love that in 4 and 4A that Magic can Crit and Physical attacks use mp now. I'd be fine with them using hp but it's always a percentage, why not a flat number like with Magic?
I always thought if they continue to HP then the power should increase when the cost does; only fair.
It sounds like you will like devil survivor overclocked. Every stat is usefull in that game.
eh, you can just dump everything to mostly magic
Man i sure loved being a speedster at smt iv, my builds were pretty much just dexterity, physical or magic, and agility and it paid off almost every time, specially at the dlc vs sanat, when he spammed gaea rage Flynn ended up alone and killed him with myriad arrows
How high was your agility? I know you can break the cap in that game because I dumpped everything into mg, for my Flynn to be a mage god.
@@NobleAbsinthe between 300 and 320(after equipment) while the offensive stat reamined at 230 or so, big damage number and sure hits while always dodging enemys attacks its just too good
Smt 4 was so magic centric, it made every other stat a joke. It actually felt like a over correction from nocturne, where physical builds simply made the top builds of the game.
That being said, the game needing stat redistribution the most was devil survivor. Some of the routes are near unwinnable with the wrong build late game.
cool video. I like your stuff
OMG a SPOONYONE Reference
YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE LAND WILL BE GREAT
That’s a name I haven’t heard in a long, long time.
4:04 yes. In newer games it's x2.5 and in older ones it is x2.
Agility in nocturne the more you lvl up its just the same execpt buff
Ya know it is kinda strange that pokemon is the only one that tells you how much an attack does exactly
I'm trying to think of others but all I can come up with is, most MMORPGs, Monster Hunter, League of Legends, Dark Souls, Tales of, and Valkyria.
Disgaea has stupid high numbers that I understand why they wouldn't bother.
@@NobleAbsinthe bravely second and soul hackers also gives you the base damage and accuracy of moves. But those are the only ones I can think of.
@@terrelllofton4113 Soul Hackers has a weird damage calculation formula. Zio is like Power 4, and Zionga Power 44. That doesn't mean that Zionga is 10x stronger, it just adds to the end result.
Oh wow this is great video about the topic I'm interested in, always ask what the point of having RPG game where you select Which stats to gain on level up, as I always prefer the game does that for me.
Beat DDS1 a few days ago and I went with a STR, AGI, VIT build.
I ended up feeling like AGI wasn't doing much.
I'm almost done with DDS2 and I barely invested in AGI.
I just threw a few points on occasion when I started missing hits in random encounters, and to keep my AGI roughly in the range of my other party members.
I did feel like AGI worked better in Nocturne.
AGI gets weaker the more points you put into it in Nocturne because of how they used it for turn calls. After a certain cut off you actually get SLOWER as you level up.
Thankfully, SMT V says specifically in-game what each stat does
Stats is kinda of one of those stuffs that JRPGs never managed to get right.
Stats systems in tabletop games rocks, you have basically 3 stats to cast spells, each with their own pros and cons, there is a clear diference between Dex and Str, and Con is important for literally every build, and every stat has a platheta of uses outside of combat. Combining two or more stats can make for a lot of unique and fun characters, i really wish Atlus would take this approach to the SMT games, because their status system kinda sucks ass tbh
Hmmm, maybe they would benefit from having a stat distribution more akin to Pokémon or FromSoft games it seems. Here's an idea:
-Vitality is HP and MP
-Resilience is Physical Defense
-Adaptability is Magic Defense
-Mind is Magic attack & Magic points to a lesser extent.
-Might is Physical attack and HP to a lesser extent.
-Agility is the usual speed stat, some attacks might require this instead of Might or Mind (to give some variety).
-Fortune is the chance of item drops, getting affected by negative status effects (included instant-death ones) and critical hits.
Fromsoft and adaptability are two words that do not go together......
@@goingunleashed5826 just needed a name for magic defenses
Hum...hum.. not bad... for the title
digital devil saga fans are in luck tonight
I think the real issue of agility as a stat is that you don't care in random encounters because they aren't that much of a threat and in bosses you can Sukukaja/Sukunda once or twice if you have trust issues and you agility deficit doesn't matter. Luck is a joke stat in all games and I feel you are severly underestimating how much Vitality reduces damage. You don't need it to not get oneshot but you can really become discustingly tanky when you actually invest in it.
Also, Persona works exactly like mainline so IDK what is special about it's system in this discussion?
좋은 영상 감사합니다. 한국어로 된 첫 댓글 드립니다. 👍
In case of focusing the Demi-fiend on the use of Magic, what would be the main stats to raise? Apart from Magic obviously, and in case of focusing on Strenght, what stats would be the main ones? What do you recommend for each build?
I mean any game that allows you to min max is by design broken. Like in DDS I built a Tanky Magic build. I was taking like 2 damage from magic hits at 99 magic. For some reason I found out that Magic increases your magic defense.
That's what Magic does
I'm was actually playing Digital Devil Saga on my PS3 today when I saw your video. I would really love to see your take on SMT 5, since it screws up stats completely and scales all the stats off level, meaning you MUST grind levels and your skill doesn't matter as much. Not a fan of that!!!
3:29 Davinator1212 ?
6:50 THATS NOT TRUE !!! Vitality saves my ass , mores times.
Shin Megami Tensei DX2 fixed the show the number crack out the game in Google play store.
You want to know why Atlus doesnt show you the numbers?
Here's why: ua-cam.com/video/m6v9j06rZG4/v-deo.html
And this one for physical: ua-cam.com/video/4eEw9K3K5jY/v-deo.html
@@spudsbuchlaw I checked out the first link you sent and the guy showed that Atlus is just EVIL. Who programs a game to SUBTRACT dmg from player level?
Thank you so much for showing me his channel, I now have to watch his stuff.
Btw, I hope you enjoy my SMT content, and stick around for more? What else would you like to see?
@@NobleAbsinthe Yeah, I've seen someone be on every drug know to man, and they were more stable than a Nocturne programmer. Level also does things like make you lose more Macca from Confusion/panic as seen I. The Luck episode. Oh boay the luck episode...
Glad you check out their channel, and I am am digging anyone's SMT content!
@@NobleAbsinthe Sounds like a few Atlus games have a LOT of spaghetti
Multiple comments to help the Algorithm.
how about the term "game talk"? i honestly think the term "game design discussion" was ruined by the internet...
I'm a real fan of alliteration, and I don't know, "Game Talk" doesn't seem catchy enough.
Big noooooomber!!
Freikugel isnt Physical, is allmighty and is calculated by magic
"It is an Almighty-based physical skill, it is effective against all enemies and can be amplified by Focus."