Can I save this Macintosh Color Classic?
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- Опубліковано 13 лис 2020
- Time for another Macintosh repair video. This Mac Color Classic has a big problem -- too big perhaps?
Part 1: This part!
Part 2: • The Mac Color Classic ...
Part 3: • One fast Macintosh Col...
Part 4: • You won't believe why ...
--- Video Links
Damage that can happen from the leaking Lithium Batteries:
• Mac Repairathon Part 2...
More on this machine:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macinto...
--- Tools
Deoxit D5:
amzn.to/2VvOKy1
store.caig.com/s.nl/it.A/id.16...
Jonard Tools EX-2 Chip Extractor:
amzn.to/2VazxDS
www.jonard.com/Products/EX-2-...
Wiha Chip Lifter:
amzn.to/3a9ftWw
www.wihatools.com/precision-c...
O-Ring Pick Set: (I use these to lift chips off boards)
amzn.to/3a9x54J
Elenco Electronics LP-560 Logic Probe:
amzn.to/2VrT5lW
Hakko FR301 Desoldering Iron:
amzn.to/2ye6xC0
Rigol DS1054Z Four Channel Oscilloscope:
www.rigolna.com/products/digi...
Head Worn Magnifying Goggles / Dual Lens Flip-In Head Magnifier:
amzn.to/3adRbuy
TL866II Plus Chip Tester and EPROM programmer: (The MiniPro)
amzn.to/2wG4tlP
www.aliexpress.com/item/33000...
TS100 Soldering Iron:
amzn.to/2K36dJ5
www.ebay.com/itm/TS100-65W-MI...
EEVBlog 121GW Multimeter:
www.eevblog.com/product/121gw/
DSLogic Basic Logic Analyzer:
amzn.to/2RDSDQw
www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Logic-DS...
Magnetic Screw Holder:
amzn.to/3b8LOhG
www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-...
Universal ZIP sockets: (clones, used on my ZIF-64 test machine)
www.ebay.com/itm/14-16-18-20-...
RetroTink 2X Upconverter: (to hook up something like a C64 to HDMI)
www.retrotink.com/
Plato (Clone) Side Cutters: (order five)
www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-5-10PCS-...
Heat Sinks:
www.aliexpress.com/item/32537...
Little squeezy bottles: (available elsewhere too)
amzn.to/3b8LOOI
--- Links
My GitHub repository:
github.com/misterblack1?tab=r...
Commodore Computer Club / Vancouver, WA - Portland, OR - PDX Commodore Users Group
www.commodorecomputerclub.com/
--- Instructional videos
My video on damage-free chip removal:
• How to remove chips wi...
--- Music
Intro music and other tracks by:
Nathan Divino
@itsnathandivino
Outro Music:
Abyss by | e s c p | escp-music.bandcamp.com
Music promoted by www.free-stock-music.com
Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)
creativecommons.org/licenses/... - Наука та технологія
![Fault finding and trying to fix the Apple ][ plus](/img/n.gif)
Adrian: "I am gonna try and hotwire it."
I then get a dead look on my face as I zone out and the sound of the 8-Bit Guy saying, "I am just gonna stick a paperclip in it."
Adrian then shakes me, "Are you okay man?"
I then scream, "You weren't there! You just don't know! AHHHHHHHH" and I start weeping and I just need to be held.
Ah, that IBM repair hurt...
You good fam?
I'm right there with you. The horror.
That video was so bad he eventually had to go turn the comments off on it. I am surprised he left it up at all to be honest.
The worst bit about that video is that the entitled brat was whining about having to drive an whole HOUR to get to Computer Reset - the mecca for vintage computer enthusiasts. I'm sure several people would give their left bollock to even visit that place once and he's whining about it. What a twat he is.
I was screaming at my screen about the power button being on the keyboard - I'm glad you figured that out in the end :)
Me too!
Yeah, everything of that generation, LC Classic, SI, VX, etc only supports soft power-on.
Apple. Stupid designs since forever.
But must owie test
I like that Adrian is so humble and he accepts that he can do mistakes, I find that he usually corrects himself later in his videos or an upcoming video, he doesn’t hide it in editing and that’s respectable.
Adrian: "Yuck! This old Mac is full with dead bugs."
Me, a software guy thinking about 68k Mac software and ROMs: "Yup, sounds about right."
Chainq68k agreed ☻
Or he got it from shango066; his old TVs are always full of dead bugs and spiders - it’s pretty much a hallmark of his UA-cam channel! 😊
I didn't expected to see you here. I mean, I should. :-D
@@williamsquires3070
Can you cook the bugs with hot butter?
The 341S0417 chip next to the battery is "Cuda", a 6805 microcontroller that was used all the way to the iMac. It turns the power supply on and off, and handles ADB, PRAM ("CMOS" in PC speak), and the clock. You need a working battery and the crystal that fell off for it to boot up and try to power on the rest of the system.
It also needs the adjacent capacitor IIRC. My original CC logic board would still boot without the battery installed, but required a second press of the power key to do so.
I think that if the 6805 341S0417 contains code similar to the 6805 344S0100 used in the IIsi for example you should be able to ground PA1 pin 25 for a soft power button without ADB. In the Color Classic this pin is just pulled high through 100k. The 6805 also generates the Power Fail Watchdog (PA0 pin 26) signal to the PSU. Without it I think the PSU will shut off.
Dang having cuda cores way back then. Apple was truly ahead of its time.
@@adampope5107 you joke but they are exactly the same thing
Comparing that primitive 6805 microcontroller to a cuda is wrong in so many ways ....
Still waiting for Adrian’s Analog Attic
When most of us say "Can I use this as a parts machine?", Adrian says "Can I save this Antikythera Mechanism?". :) Love it.
Totally tangential, but that towel is what I've always imagined Roosta's looking like in the original Hitchhiker's Guide radio series. The one impregnated with wheat germ extract and antidepressants.
i think there was a description of arthur's towel in the computer game...
It never ceases to amaze me the kind of damage a leaky battery and years of neglect can cause.
So many old Macs and Amiga -- destroyed by leaky batteries.
If you are able to isolate the signals going to the ADB, the "soft key" works by dumping the +5v pin to ground. (Pin 1 to pin 4 on the ADB connector) You might be able to figure out a way to do this manually despite having no functioning ADB connectors.
Aha i presumed there would be a way to defeat the soft start if necessary
I vote yes on trying to fix that motherboard!
@securitycountercheck The repairs are typically not worth the cost, when the hardware is still fairly common. Some like the challenge though, and people like to watch. To build "repair" PCBs is certainly an interesting idea, but also requires quite a bit more time and effort. If there are already reproduction boards for sale or designs for download, that might be a better option in that case. It might not appeal as much to viewers as basic repair.
I have a spare Macintosh Classic Color Motherboard if you still need one, DM me.
Adrian if you open the envelope I sent a while back, you'd have a reference on this machine. No acknowledgment necessary.
I have fond memories of the Color Classic. We had a suite of Classic IIs and Color classics at secondary School. They were the first Macs I ever used and it blew me away how much better they were than the suite of RM Nimbus PC clones that the IT classroom had.
I'm fairly certain the color classic used soft start.... from the keyboard power switch. Edit Ah and now I'm at the part in the video where you figured this out.
I couldn't find anything for the color classic but this article covers the soft start on the II and IIx. Might be useful for triggering manually. www.downtowndougbrown.com/2015/03/explanation-of-the-macintosh-iiiix-power-onoff-circuit/
This is correct - you soft start with the power switch on the keyboard. You can also socket the motherboard while the machine is running or short two of the ADB pins (I think 4 + 5) but I don't recall which off hand.
@@StephenArsenault That would be tough, ADB has only 4 pins…
When you first pulled off that backplate to reveal the rust, I almost cried.
I realise I'm commenting on a video that's almost two years old at this point, but when Adrian tried turning it on and he got nothing, I'm there screaming IT'S GOT SOFT POWER ON! YOU NEED TO PRESS THE POWER BUTTON ON THE KEYBOARD! Then he goes off hunting for a different problem... Gah if only this had been a live stream. Anyway - awesome video as always.
The best thing about being late to the party in Adrian's Digital Basement is that I've many great videos to catch up with!
I really enjoy your channel. You provide just the right amount of nostalgia, preservation just for preservation's sake, and technical know-how to keep me riveted. I'd love to see more about how to do the different kinds of soldering required to change motherboard components, how to test for shorts and defects, both with the multimeter and the oscilloscope.
Thanks for posting the experiences that don't always work out as well as we want. It's how we learn. I love that you put in a lot of your trial and error, instead of just the end solution. The PET screen dot problem is a good example, as I'm sure this will be too.
Its good to see videos like this where you show that there are times when things cannot be fixed or its just not worth it. By showing this it gives viewers a more balanced view as well as still being entertaining.👍
As soon as you opened up that panel in the rear and I saw all that rust, my first thought was, "It's a Maxell battery" And sure enough, when you pulled out the board my suspicions were confirmed.
I have to say, this was the most literal debugging I've seen for a computer.
I am impressed on the service friendly design of the Color Classic. I'm almost tempted to try to find one.
I hope you can find a way to get yours going
I keep my fingers crossed that you‘ll fix this poor little computer. A video without a happy end. Maybe there‘s hope. Thank you for your content. It is always amazing what you can repair and fix. Stay safe. Stay healthy. Keep up the good work.
It’s dead, Jim! The infamous exploded battery rears its ugly head once again.
“Steve, we found the problem of System 7! It’s the house fly at U7!”
Yep, when you were about to turn on the Mac to see if it would boot up, I literally said "Not without a keyboard you're not" :)
I'm glad you left the stuff in about the keyboard power button. We learn a lot from such things, rather than people cutting the video to look like they are experts who know everything. Well done.
"The Bugs Are In The Trashcan" makes a great t-shirt.
😎
Along with "Deoxit that Socket!" that makes two great t-shirt slogans 🙂
@@SimonZerafa agreed 😊
They deserve proper burial.
That computer is definitely bugged ha ha. Great and educational channel you have here Adrian. I absolutely lobe watching you work on various computers...brilliant...keep up the great work.
I like how you showed the dead fly and still had it on the board after removing the caps.... :D
Hey Adrian! Nice video. I did one at a Color Classic I've got which had the exact same issue (major leakeage). After a LOT of work (like you did), luckily I was able to fix it and get it back alive. But I did have to trash the 2 serial ports in the process (the leakeage corroded the serial controlers). No biggie as no one uses serial ports on old Macs anymore (unless you want to connect a printer to it), so I was really happy with the end result... nice job on documenting the whole process, and also nice filming quality!
Great video, I've wanted a Color Classic since I was a kid. All in good time! Love the content, man, keep up the good work!!
Could it be worth the effort just trying like a "dead by side of the road" fix, solder the components in the damaged area back in, maybe fix some of the most obvious traces, and seeing if you might get lucky and get an ADB port working? Since that is really all that has to work... i mean for me, as someone with a MUCH more limited knowledge when it comes to testing electronics, it would be worth a shot.
Really cool video by the way, i really like these "beyond saving" deals, and i actually think it would be really good content, if you went for fixing the motherboard up, even if it is not really viable, besides from a video content point of view. Getting this to work completely, even if it means an entire forrest of bodgewires in that corner, would be an awesome video.
I agree, let’s throw the works at this one!
I think its a great idea, you can check the contentinuity between the traces to make sure everything is electrically connected. It would be a great video to show the sequence of operation for the Color Classic. Are there schematics available for this mother board?
Agreed.
I agree great video very cool
Its a ton of work to trace out every pin and via and add bodge wires. The Cuda chip circuit isn't that complicated but if the corrosion has made it under the top layer of the board and you fix it, it may continue to eat away the traces under the solder mask and just fail a few months or years later.
"A dead fly" you're truly "de-bugging" that Mac!
Nice save on this monitor and case. Great parts machine or to fix with another donor machine. Those little colour trinitrons are sweet.
looking at both of those brings me back to my childhood at school
Most entertaining upload , I feel I’m reading your mind whilst listening to your excellent commentary
Great job as always Adrian, keep videos coming! 👌😊
Usually when someone at UA-cam says "Can I fix ...?" and I don't bother to watch it because they can. So I'm glad you couldn't! Not because you couldn't, but... ☺
Crazy coincidence... That towel featured in your videos was the exact same as the "security blanket" I had when I was a little kid. I remember that the blue thread started pulling out leaving the black cloth underneath exposed. I took that thing everywhere with me and slept on it in nursery school!! Did not expect to see that thing on one of my favorite UA-cam channels 50 years later!
Wow that's too much! What are the chances? There was another viewer that commented on a video saying they had them as bathroom towels when they were growing up.
Best of luck fixing it! I bought a LC520 this year which has a very similar architecture (I actually emailed you about advice on fixing it if you remember!) - it took a full recap and scrubbing of the motherboard to get it to boot, but it was still wonky afterwards; the screen would flicker in and out and occasionally the machine would hard lock up. I ended up recapping the entire analog board except for the big filter capacitor to try and fix the issue with no luck...it turns out the big filter capacitor was the problem the whole time. Replaced it and now it’s rock solid. If you get a new motherboard and it has a similar behavior, give that a try!
As another commenter mentioned I’d definitely try and do the “mystic” upgrade with a LC 575 board if you can get one. It’s a much better machine with a 68040 processor and proper 32 bit data bus.
Oh, I remember these! We had them in our 1st grade classroom. I learned to type on one of them!
good to see the exotic 70s towel still hanging around.....NICE
There is a spray you get at the auto parts store that's designed for cleaning and removing corrosion from battery terminals, I've found it works great. You might want to pick up some of that and try it on your next corroded board, it works pretty fast.
What a phenomenal video Adrian, super interesting.
congratulations for the 90,000 subs I hope that one day you reach the million greetings from Mexico
I love the Color Classic! I've had mine for 20 years now
I was watching this thinking... none of this is going to work without a keyboard. Good to see you figured that out :) You can fix the motherboard it's not a hugely complicated area, good practice for when you get an Archimedes
Thumbs up for a good effort! Hopefully you’ll be able to source at least a salvageable replacement logic board for the Color Classic.
Video was definitely frustrating, but in the same way as trying to troubleshoot something myself and realizing I'm out of my depth. I've kind of gotten used to seeing you prevail with even hard cases that make it to the bench, so your frustration in having to call it quits here has kind of become mine by proxy.
Ah well, you can't win them all. Still, kudos for making the attempt!
Thank you for saving this cute little Mac! Such an odd and unique design, definitely high up on my list of wanted computers
also, it's not rust, it's free weight reduction :D
@Simr Khera at least it didn't end up in the landfill, so that's a win for me. if he can't fix the board, maybe we'll have a MysticMac upgrade video to look forward to :D
Don't apologize for not having a fix for something this bad? I for one enjoy watching (and learning) the process for diagnosing issues with these rigs, and who knows--perhaps a viewer might have some ideas to try down the road (or perhaps you will be able to find a replacement board down the road...
love your shows, I've had problems like this and it turn out to be a bad backup battery. but you do need the key board with the soft start.
I'm glad I ran across this video. My CC's battery puked all over the MB when I started it up last month. (Yes. I'm the original owner. It was the 1st computer I ever bought.) :( Sorry you collectors out there, but it's going to an IT tech at a school I work at that collects old Macs (the school was Mac-only) and I needed the HD out before I give it to him. Yes, the keyboard and mouse too.
No apologies needed, it was a very entertining Video, as always thank you.
I'd give it a shot and try repairing it :) it looks like it's completely salvagable. The board will not boot likely due to missing RTC crystal oscillator.
That motherboard is definitely saveable
You missed out not. Its not saveable. Many traces are completely gone and multiple ICs and connectors are damaged.
@@simontay4851 the board absolutely is savable with enough time and effort. damaged ICs and connectors were all off-the-shelf and easily obtainable parts. the traces can be fixed w/ wires and if you really wanted to go the extra mile, exposed copper could be tinned and covered with solder mask epoxy to make everything look decent
Its not. But it would be a good candidate for a reverse engineering...
Thank you for the interesting bug safari Adrian!
The expansions were made! My grade school had Color Classics (among other spectacularly beige Macintosh computers) with composite AV out or RJ45 plugs where that rectangular cover on the back is.
Congratulations on passing 90k subs.
Maybe see if you could find a replacement motherboard? It's a prime candidate for the Mystic upgrade, where the CC board is replaced with one from an LC 550 or 575, along with a mod on the analog board for 640x480 resolution.
It would also be a good candidate for a takky as the case seems kinda rough on the inside
I am super excited to watch this video. I have obsessed over the minutiae of the Colour/Color Classic for ages. I have a CC that I've restored and modified extensively. It has a recapped LC575 motherboard with a full 68040 installed -- even a late Freescale branded L88M mask revision that runs nice and cool. I have a 64MB SIMM installed for a total of 68MB RAM, 1MB of VRAM, PDS Ethernet, SCSI2SD, external battery mod, and I've modified the analogue board for 640x480@60Hz/VGA. I have a microSD to SD extension so I can change the SD card without tearing my hands open getting the HD sled out. It runs excellent with System 7, and honestly Mac OS 8.1 is totally usable too.
You have to power it on with a keyboard. Push the power button on the keyboard
_starts typing comment about the Color Classic having a soft power switch on the keyboard_
33:41 _Backspace, backspace_
Great video, I'm amazed you were able to clean up the motherboard as much as you did.
Yup, it powers on via soft power - very entertaining to see the experiments you tried though!
Hi Adrian! It looks like 4 pin Mini DIN female mounting connectors are still easy to get. If you're feeling brave, you could try to replace those corroded ADB connectors. Thanks for another great video and good luck with the repair!
As soon as I saw that corrosion I would of been like “nope” lol
I love seeing all the older technology, reminds me of my childhood completely. However, I am more PC then Apple/MAC but remember playing with Apple/MAC as a kid, miss those days, things were so much simple.
It's "Mac", not "MAC".
@@dunebasher1971 tomatoe tomato
Very lucky that case is in such good condition, despite all the corrosion (and bugs!). I managed to pick up an LC575 for dirt cheap a while back, but the plastic of the case was so yellowed and brittle that every clip immediately snapped off when I put the slightest pressure on it. I have no idea if it's possible to restore the plastic so it's no longer so brittle, but I kept the broken clips in case it was so I could plastic weld them back on.
Pretty straight forward rebuild
You neglected to actually toss the towel over the machine when you said you were throwing in the towel.
i know, right? the towel was right there.
Great attempt on that motherboard - you cannot win em all! The main thing that would put me off attempting to repair that board is the damaged sockets at the back left. You could remove them from another board I guess but you may have an easier time fixing the donor board in that case.
Seems like the bugs are attracted to rotten Apples. 😊
Why apologize for not having fixed the machine? That is the same thing the rest of us would experience as well. There is no problem with showing us how a failed system is tested and reaching the conclusion that the machine needs too much work. That is part of life and it is good to see that even the experts experience these problems. Thanks for the videos.
That's some serious "Debugging"!
Perfect, I get here just in time for lunch. Turkey pot pie and some Orange Crush with a side of Mac classic.
Today on Louis Rossmann, more corrosion and dead bugs. XD
Love the 70’s trash towel lol
Most Macs were soft power, excepting the black-and-white compacts, the pizzabox LCs, and a handful of random machines such as those in the Q610 form factor. Some soft power models (usually AIO models) also have a hard power switch at the back, probably to completely depower the system if not in use for a long time (useful because they do draw some power even when shut down and this also prevents damage from voltage transients).
Also, your hard drive is probably stuck. You can measure the diameter of the original rubber bumpers inside and replace them with a stack of O-rings that don't exceed the diameter of the original bumpers (if they're too wide they'll interfere with proper operation).
I used a color classic throughout college. I plugged in the optional math coprosseser. BTW the expansion card door on the back was, in my case, for an apple II emulator so you could use apple IIe software as well. Another expansion option was a ethernet card.
BTW, I was an Apple certified service tech at the time
I used a PET in about 1978 (to write programs) & a Mac in 1986 (to write a dissertation). Both were great.
That iconic towel..but seriously, Steve Mac84 fixes this stuff!
So, I bought a dirt cheap Color Classic due to "No power" however, it is identical to Mac LC/Performa 500 series. So I got it, right away I plugged a keyboard in, plugged it, and welcomed with a Boot Sound and came right to life. I would upgrade it to a LC575 board if you can find it. True sleeper that way!
Leaking Lithium batteries are the worst! I was so glad the leakage damage to my old Amiga 500 was confined to the memory expansion/RTC module. Easy to replace!
I am just sitting here about 10 minutes to 9 on this Long Island morning, eating my DiGiorno's pepperoni and I got to pondering something very very deep. Do you remember in the mid to late 80s when they started labelling everything in the electronics department "digital" and all the older people got confused asking "what does this mean???" hahahah I am 43 btw.
The Color Classic and Color Classic II are basically the same architecture as the LC 500 line, with smaller CRTs and no optical drive. As others have mentioned some of their motherboards are interchangeable. As it's essentially an LC internally, it has an LC PDS expansion port, which I put many an ethernet card in back in the day, though other cards were readily available.
By the way, a good reference is the application Mactraker, it is a good way to look up specs and keep track of systems you have, I've used it for years (note, this is not a paid advertisement, especially as Mactracker is freeware).
You made the best you can with this
This one's quite far gone, but if it's just light corrosion and the metal is still there, I use a very soft abrasive on the drill to take it back to bare metal, then in a plastic tub, I use a zinc rod and a crocodile clip on the metal to plate it with tin via electrolysis. It takes about 10 minutes, then flip the metal around to do the other side. That way the crocodile clip doesn't get a coating and nothing else. I use an old laptop PSU for it. 18V dc and plenty of watts. Nickel is another choice. Rods cost about 5-20$ on fleabay depending.
the CC wont power up without the EGRET and clock crystal that runs it, and the battery damaged that section pretty good.
You should definitely watch a few of Paul Daniels' videos to see how he deals with corrosion on Mac laptops (flux, heat, solder braid, reflowing, enameled wire jumpers, etc.). Also, channels like Hand Tool Rescue can provide some ideas for removing rust (hint: Evapo-Rust).
Paul Daniels... That's magic...
Unknown bug at about 15 minutes is an assassin bug
RF shields are for keeping the RF of the electronic equipment from interfering with other electronic equipment and the FCC can fine you for it.
I have a 386 board that had some leakage, just minor I caught it early. I used a little distilled white vinegar and then followed up with 91%isopropyl alcohol. Do you think that is fine?
Since we're on the subject of apple's, I wanted to know what the command box was when you pressed a combination of keys, it was somthing along the line of apple command control reset? Or escape?
I really don’t get why I eat watching these kinds of videos lol. I knew what I was getting into but was like ah well.
Why not distilled water and Sonic Machine 😂
Good video brings back lots of memories
Would you recommend that KA3005P? I'm looking for a good bench power supply.
Perfect candidate for a Mystic swap (or a Color Classic board from someone who upgraded already)
That's an LC expansion port. IIRC, you can use the Apple //e emulation card on a Color Classic.
So I have a G3 (indigo) All in one, if I were to ship what would be a good practice for safely mailing it? After seeing what USPS can do I want to avoid this at all costs
Hi Adrian i see a shield on eBay right now. and they have a motherboard there too. and also a backplate is also there.
Back in the late 1980's (specifically 1986-1989), the university I went to (Oregon State) had tons of monochrome Macs (now retrospectively called Classics) & I used them at the university library & also for classes (Pascal computer language etc). However I did spot a lone color model somewhere on campus. It seems as I remember the monitor being separate & was on top of the case, but I could be wrong. I don't recall what model, that was so long ago. That was really the last time I used any sort of Macs. I'm more of C64 & PC guy. The only souvenir I have that is Mac-related as well as from that period (time flies) is actually the box package for the Pascal installation 3.5" floppy disk plus a data disk. The Pascal install disk itself I erroneously let someone borrow a few years later & was never returned to me. So I never let anyone borrow anything of worth from that point forward, lol. :-/
Just wondering if an ultrasonic toothbrush could make cleaning a little bit easier. Just used that to clean up a bike chain and it worked pretty well.