A very long time ago, I used to work on the Chance-Vought (LTV) A7-E aircraft. It was an attack aircraft that used (for the era) some very sophisticated avionics. I worked in the intermediate repair department (not the depot repair), and we used to get first time try to repair units (black boxes) that had failed in the aircraft. This is a tale of a tantalum capacitor that became a diode. Yes, you read this right. Most of the failures of tantalum caps is dead short. When they fail they usually take down a rail and are pretty easy to troubleshoot. But this tantalum was in an A/D converter that was pretty much driving us crazy. Finally, the night crew carefully unsoldered the cap, allowed it to cool off, and did a front to back measurement with diode check. Polarized normally at 15vdc... it was a cap. Charged and discharged normally. Reverse, it was a diode, with a forward bias of silicon diode> 0.6vdc. At 25 volts, forward measurement would charge up the cap, then it would short. Reverse at 25volts, it would be open. Strangest thing I have ever seen. The moral of the story is, NEVER TRUST A TANTALUM capacitor. I'd change them all out for new ones. I enjoy your channel very much, Adrian, and thank you for a great video!! Cheers and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
That is a crazy and strange failure mode. It never ceases to amaze me how odd things can be when failing. I've had electrolytic caps fail short and other funny issues that just don't seem possible or right -- but like you found, sometimes it happens.
Tantrum capacitors... On some old arcade boards I came across a few Tantalums that were turning into Randomness Resistors. For measurement, I use my Testofon which has a 4V potential between the probes and then converts current to frequency on a speaker. [What's a Testofon?]It will then upload its firmware to your brain which lets you measure not only wires and broken wires, but also resistors, capacitors (capacity AND leakage), diodes and to some extent inductors. Every resistor has a specific frequency. Every capacitor has a specific frequency curve. And I freaking love this thing![/What's a Testofon?] These Tantalums made the Testofon play a weird melody... they were all over the place (which also caused the machine to sometimes work). (translated: These tantalums had a leakage current that translates to a potentiometer someone randomly turns between 100 Ohms and around 10kOhm)
@@adriansdigitalbasement wow Adrian .. you come a long way from the guy that disassemble LED bulbs back in 2014 or 2015.. everything time see you troubleshooting one of this machines like that ... it just wow..... :-) .. definitely thumbs up...
@@cowsgomoo4618 LOL!!! I love that plane. I remember walking on the hanger deck of the USS America (Don’t Tread on Me!) and seeing all those Corsair II’s sitting there with huge pans under them. I asked an ADJ why and he told me, “If the pans are empty of hydraulic fluid, the planes need to be refilled. If there’s small puddles of hydraulic fluid in the pans, they have plenty of fluid.” I learned later that the hydraulic systems seal themselves during flight. Strange design. The Corsair II could carry twice its weight in armaments. It used a digital computer made by IBM that was the grandson of the Saturn V’s guidance computer. The inertial navigation gyros were made by Singer-Keirfott and were so accurate they could measure the Earth’s wobble. That was one damn good airplane.
You pronounced the names right! Also, look at my avatar here on youtube, then the sticker again; it's a logo I use when I make computer builds for people, and that sticker is what I use on those machines.
If anyone has trouble seeing the avatar, the sticker is upside down. Turn it about 180 degrees and you'll see at 7:34 Although their sticker actually looks really cool upside down, like a man wearing a long hat that is in the shape of a bird.
I knew that name sounded familiar when I heard it, and the avatar confirmed it. I remember seeing you around on Mario Fan Games Galaxy in the 2000s! Small world.
That's the preferred method of getting those capacitors off. You push down and twist. Worked with a guy in the broadcast television repair industry that probably replaced 50,000 capacitors a year and this is how he did it. Never damaged the traces.
I've tried the other methods and once I started using the twist method, I've never had a single damaged trace or pad. Heat and attempting to desolder has resulted in damage... so I abandoned those ways.
@@adriansdigitalbasement Same. I've had far better luck with "push and twist" than trying to desolder with an iron. I used to yell at my computer screen when I saw people do this... not anymore!
When capacitors leak, they release electrolyte. The electrolyte is alkali, which is corrosive. The corrosion seeps into the pads and traces. The effect is accelerated when current is passed through the circuit. Because the pads become fragile, that is why the twist method is not recommended. It applies unnecessary force to the pads which can cause them to break. Heat + activated flux helps to remove the corrosion and free the legs without force, giving you a better chance at not causing damage. The brown/black stuff you see from the activated flux is all the corrosion being washed away from the metal. That said, I've lost pads using hot air before. Sometimes they're just too far gone. Do whatever method works best for you, but it's best to know and be prepared for trace repairs as these computers continue to age. The surface mount capacitors from this era were particularly bad.
@@bnice7 -- Preferred method in the industry is twisting. You push down on the capacitor with a force and twist. When you do that, the leads break at the board. It only takes 1/4 turn. You don't have to spin it around all day.
@@pmgodfrey Probably a lot more efficient to do it that way, which makes sense in an industrial setting. They probably just toss the board if they do lift any traces and move onto the next one. As a hobbyist and collector, I prefer to treat my own equipment with more care and pay more attention to the science. Using the twist method, if the leads are stronger than the corroded pad, you'll lift the pad 100% of the time. I'd personally rather apply fresh solder, flux and heat. It's a longer process, but less chance of causing damage in my opinion.
I upgraded my Color Classic to an LC550 motherboard which turns the computer into a Color Classic II. Probably the coolest little Mac ever made! Glad you're putting some time in on this, it made me really sad that it wouldn't work before.
I am not the most technical person, but I get so much satisfaction to see Adrian repair all of this retro tech. All of these retro computers remind me of my childhood. I also love the positivity of Adrian and all of the viewers!
It seems like eventually every youtuber has a snap and starts taking this for granted, maybe it is just human nature, but is very disappointing to me. Hopefuly our boi keeps his integrity :)
I didn't watch the 8-bit guy from the very beginning, but he's never seemed as genuinely grateful. That being said, he also had a number of red flags, and it turns out he's not a great person.
@@0xTJ He is very knowledgeable but never seemed to be a nice guy as Adrian does, although I am not aware of why he actually would not be a good person, why do you say that?
Absolutely true, tantalums may not leak, but when they fail and cause a direct 5V power rail short you will have even more issues then before! Much better to replace with 1uf, 25v nichicon caps so when those fail you only have to replace a capacitor!
When we were young, Bernie's Deli was down the block (Ooh ooh ooh ooh) He made a great liver pate (You know he did, you know he did, you know he did) But if there's one thing in this world that I like better Than a corned beef on rye It's Chicken Pot Pie Chicken Pot Pie !
Thank you for getting around to the Color Classic. When I was in grade school in Oregon in the early 90’s we had a mix of computers in the classroom, but the Color Classic was the “Cadillac” and there were so few that it was a very sought after machine to use. Can’t wait for the Macintosh Portable series!
Hey Adrian, just wanted to thank you on your video. I got a CC that wouldn't turn on. Did regular recap and cleaning. And it wouldn't turn on. After a lot of researching (I also got to those schematics eventually and they're so helpful!) I almost gave up on this board. Went trace by trace on the U7 and U8 chips, checking continuity, and couldn't find the fault. Today, by completely random chance, I saw your video. Somehow I missed trying connections that go to J13-10 and J13-14. Lo and behold, the connection from J13-10 to U8-2 was severed. Did the same fix as you, and now I have a happy CC that turns on! Thank you!!
It's amazing how being a pleasant person is a rarity these days. Adrian isn't pushing an agenda or shoving advertising down our throats, he just wants to fix computers and share the journey with us. I don't know what he's like in person but I can't imagine this is all an act.
Hi Adrian. Some notes: 1) the Performa 475 motherboard also requires the PRAM battery, so you’re not alone. 2) IIRC, those batteries are 12v, not 3v, but check the documentation, first! Never mind; you schematic shows 3v. 3) when you were showing the board with the caps off, it looked like one of them, the trace was corroded off (nearby). (@16:42, if you look just under and to the left of C11’s (+) pad.) 4) it looks like the motherboard is missing an IC (there’s a PLCC socket, but no IC in it.) 5) a “real” 68040 (as opposed to the 68LC040) has Floating-point registers and ALU, but runs hotter; I recommend a peel-and-stick heat sink at minimum - just be sure it has clearance when you put it back into the case! 6) while tantalum electrolytic caps don’t leak, then can fail dead short; measure resistance across the power rails.
I must admit as a trained electronics engineer seeing someone with such enthusiasm and attention to detail is great. I am an avid watcher. Your channel is brilliant 💡
That's a low-end 68040, it's the 68LC040 which was fitted to the LC machines and lacks an FPU. It's not hard to swap it out for a 'full' 68040 however, that's a popular upgrade to LC machines.
I *just* test booted my Color Classic this morning as I'd re-capped the Apple IIe card in it and was testing it. Funny enough, it had no audio for the first boot which freaked me out a bit (it had already been re-capped and it had been working fine). The next reboot and subsequent ones, audio was fine. If you still have audio issues, definitely look at corrosion around the sound chip, U5 as it's common for that area to be a problem with the 4 caps that are around it.
That was a beautiful "Would you look at that!". Good that you did not give up on that board. Schematic-level troubleshooting is the most interesting to watch.
On most beige Macs, Cmd-Power is an NMI. You can usually type ES to return to the desktop if you invoke it unintentionally during normal operation or type G FINDER to try to get out of a crashed program and return to the Finder and save your work before restarting. The latter doesn't always work, though, especially if there are larger problems beyond an uncooperative program, in which case you can try to type RB to reboot if the system crashed hard and won't go back to the Finder. You could also install MacsBug where cmd-power brings you to the MacsBug debug screen from which you can view debug info and input advanced commands or return to the desktop via either of the previous methods (assuming the system hasn't crashed, in which case MacsBug shows you a huge screen full of debug info for review). On the CC and other AIO Macs, the sound amp is on the analog board, which also likely needs to be recapped. If you have sound problems regardless of which logic board you try, it's likely that you either have a problem on the analog board or something between there and the speaker (the wire is really long; maybe you nicked it?). Your Mystic upgrade board will require a VRAM SIMM before it will work, just fyi (it has none onboard unlike the CC or CCII boards). You have two options for the Mystic mod procedure: the quick and easy way with a simple logic board mod to enable it to use the CC's 512x384 display (by default the 575's LB runs 640x480 which is incompatible with stock CC), or you can do a hi-res mod to the CC's analog board to enable 640x480 resolution on the built-in display. The hi-res mod will follow with any subsequent logic board using the 640x480 resolution (including the stock board) with no further mods, unlike the 575 LB mod which would only affect that particular board. It kind of depends on how invasive you want to get and if you want those extra pixels.
Very cool! I will add Mac colour classics are very picky with boot up when you pull the motherboard out and swap batteries. I went threw the same problem you had. But I read somewhere you have to let them sit for a while with the battery installed. Mine wouldn’t turn on with a new battery for quite a while. I let it sit overnight went and hit the startup button in the morning and it started right up.
The Mystic upgrade seems to be gaining a bit of popularity in the vintage Mac community. Bruce from Branchus Creations made an excellent video explaining the Mystic upgrade and how it came about; it's well worth checking out before committing to the Mystic upgrade.
command control power was the reset command for most of the beige macs- this was the standard way to reboot after a hard freeze all the way through the 90s. I’m pretty sure it persisted through the later macs until they removed the standalone power button from the keyboards in the 2000s.
Wow, that was a real slog but I bet you're glad you stuck at it! So good to bring one of these classic machines back from the dead. I actually found myself thinking "I wonder if he'll put an LC575 motherboard in it" as it's an upgrade I was aware of but know nothing about, so it'll be cool to learn some more about it!
Amazing, I was a happy owner of an old CC that my first employer give to me, here, in mexico. Unfortunately i sold it about 15 years ago but on that era I found some nice japanese people whom upgrade it to g3 imac logic board. I conserve my very first powerMac from the university, PM5500/250 with a battery dead. Nice videos.
One of the best ways to check a board is to take diode, resistor measurements on each pin of all IC and components. Taking the positive to GND and the negative to the test-point. This technique is used by most of the Flying probes to test boards. Sure you need another board to compare it.. but sometimes even without that you can figure out the problem. It was better to take out the oxidized chip and clean it and replaced again to see how much was damaged. thanks for the video
This is why I like your channel so much - you have a persistence in getting things to work that most other channels do not pursue. Keep up the good work!
love watching your channel Adrian, was never had a computer when young parents too poor, but i used to play with a friends computer with him, zx spectruml your videos bring back memories thanks
Wow, crazy to learn you are type 1; my aunt is type 1 and I used to have to run in and take care of her low sugar sometimes. It was scary! But the plus side is I now know the symptoms of low/high blood sugar. Great video, always love watchin'!
WOW Adrian (@Adrian's Digital Basement).. you come a long way from the guy that disassemble LED bulbs back in 2014 or 2015.. everything time see you troubleshooting one of this machines like that ... it just wow..... :-) .. definitely thumbs up...
@@TheLucidLuxray juice or soda is a much better solution that he might want to try, chewing small candies is a slow process for bringing one's blood sugar back up because of the amount of time it takes to consume them relatively speaking, if it works for him that's cool and I'm sure he probably already realizes how much quicker drinking a sugary beverage would be but if you're ever with him and he starts acting weird def get some sugar in him in the quickest easiest to swallow way possible
Control+Command+Power key will sometimes start up a Mac with either a bad or missing battery. I can't say I've tried that on a Color Classic, but it does work on a few LC models.
Great to see this machine being lovingly brought back to life, also heart warming to hear how excited you got when it finally booted! Keep them coming Adrian, loving it!
Happy Cola is the best! It's hard to find here in Australia, so when I was a kid my German relatives would stuff their suitcases with bags of Happy Cola, and I'd try to ration it so it lasted until their next visit.
Nice job with the Color Classic Adrian! They're not the easiest machines to work on. Thank god mine is still safe and sound after recapping and rebuilding. I love these little machines and always enjoy your cheers of enthousiasm when your works pays of. Keep up the good work! 👍
Adrian! Love your channel! A little bird (actually Kevin Williams) told me you fixed the Commander X16. Incredible! You have just made my whole year! Thanks for all the joy you bring this world!
Wow, that company for that schematic is from Casper, Wyoming. That's a small town I grew up in that NO ONE on Earth has heard of. Crazy! It's the only thing since I left there in 2001 that has come up in any form of media that I know of. It's a small town of less than 20,000.
It's nice to be able to work "alongside" someone else having the same sort of issues, presently trying to restore a BASF/Canon 5.25" floppy that has leaky caps and mouse poo on it, don't ask, it was cheap, and surprisingly the caps aren't even surface-mount, but they have expelled their juice unfortunately... :P
Don't forget that a viewer sent in a hand held microscope a few weeks ago. I've used them for inspecting traces and pins in the past and they really help. They'd also give us some good footage to watch!
Nice that you mention it, people often do not understand what diabetes is. That 0 sugar is not the solution, sugar is no poison, even to someone diabetic. (for everyone who does not know: You "only" have to manually compensate for the body not regulating the sugar levels in your blood) I am not affected yet, but my father has been diabetic for a few years now. At first i was scared due to my lack of knowledge and I really do blame movies for that, who often portray it wrong.
Be that as it may, a lot of us who worked and played on pre-Mac Apples still say "Open Apple" by habit. It's like calling an Apple motherboard a "logic board" even thought that's just meaningless Apple jargon.
I had the floppy disk loop issue on a LC475 that I recapped, exact same symptoms as you have. Turned out that one of the capacitor legs touched another trace that had solder mask on, but caused issues. I recommend looking those over and checking there's no overlap on any of those.
That moment where you say ‘I knew it!’ I had a feeling you were type 1. Me too since 2004. Very late onset, just before I was 21. I do the same thing with having some delicious treats around for hypos.
Great video Adrian. A small tip. When using desoldering braid, I always cut it so that a bit of solder stays there. That serves as a starter for next time.
Awesome video once again, really enjoying them. :) Regarding the twisty caps, if it works that's fine, but to me it looks like it takes more time and has increased risk. Just heating them up and removing them completely seems faster.
Regarding the sound, on my Color Classic fix, the issue was the wire going to the speaker, so I will check the speaker with a battery. Their is a IC on the Analog board that control the sound amplifier. Does go bad some times...You can get then for $1 online.
There's a store nearby (20km) which when the Crocrocooch stops, I'll probably visit this "Real Canadian Superstore" from Prezzy's Choice just to get Colas. None at the No Frills.
I’d like your pump. I just switched from the MiniMed 670G to the t:slim and am loving the pump. The sensor is so much better then Medtronic’s. Also love the video!
Hello from Bavaria, Germany. As said from many people many times before, now also said by me: "You've got an awesome channel!" I'm a Type I Diabetic for 41 years myself and Haribos are good friends of mine since a loooooooooooong time ;-) Very interested in the "setup" that you are using for your "Diabetes-Management" (my "little diabetes hellhound" is often very resistant against any "Management"). I'm using a Medtronic 640G Insulinpump and an Abbott Freestyle FGM for Glucose Measurement. Keep up the good work and stay safe during these crazy times...
Exciting stuff when it turns on! I must say that when debugging software I've never felt comfortable putting in a fix without understaind the root cuase. I dont think I ever have. Hardware... well - that's a different kettle of fish!
The amazing part for me is what you do off camera, being able to decipher what's going on in the schematics and then put it to use debugging the motherboard is pretty cool. I wish there was more old-school Mac stuff on UA-cam (we need a month of Macintosh :-/)...the Mac IIsi was my first real computer after the QL. I was so excited to finally have a Mac back in the early 90's (they were not cheap). I did, for a short time, own a Mac Color Classic in the early 2000's...not sure why I didn't hold on to it. Happy New Year!
Awesome video! Watching because I just got a color classic that won't turn on. Hopefully, the new battery does it otherwise I will be re-capping and then going through each step from there.
We should start building “Bodge Vieas” into our boards. 20 or 30 dead vias spread arround the board with no electrical connection. Intended for repairs and such.
In addition to corroded legs on U7, I notice a few dodgy-looking vias near it and Y1. Looks like a possible broken trace to one leg of Y1 as well. But it seems those are fine, nice! Probably a broken speaker from the battery-vapors, would be my guess, or else a broken trace. Intriguing progress!
It's always great to see your Macintosh themed videos! I have a troubleshooting suggestion for you: I have found that with many Macintosh boards the electrolyte from the capacitors sometimes leaks underneath the ICs. This fluid can cause the ICs to behave abnormally. There may still be a bit of leaked electrolyte underneath this particular chip. I think it might be a good idea to try pulling the IC, cleaning underneath it with Isopropyl alcohol, and soldering it back down. I couldn't quite make it out in the video, but I know that with Mac Classic II's the chip that is worst affected by this fluid is called the Egret chip. I look forward to seeing more videos about this computer!
The IBM PS/2 (at least the model 25, the one I'm familiar with) is another example of a machine that needs a good clock battery (in the form of one of those Dallas chips) to boot.
I would have used MLCC capacitors instead of regular electrolytics. I think new electrolytics won't leak (not soon anyway), but MLCC are forever and work fine on these old boards.
Excellent troubleshooting. Thanks! Regarding the CTRL+COMMAND+POWER to reset, that still works through PPC and to this day on present Macs (At least Intel). For MacBooks with Touch ID it is CTRL+COMMAND+TOUCH ID button.
I had a Compaq LTE 4/25 monochrome laptop which had a CR2032 and a CR2340 coin cell battery on the motherboard. And without the CR2340, it did not even power on.
Word up from another T1D with a Color Classic... Well, 2! One works after an easy recap.. will the other boot? NOPE. Looking for ideas. Love the videos, keep it up :)
My guess is that pin 10 on that edge connector is the PWRON command to the PSU, which has to be pulled low, and pin 14 is the PWRGOOD returning from the PSU which allows the clock generator to start.
@@adriansdigitalbasement I'm pretty confident it's in that order. The weird chip in between the microcontroller and the battery is probably a tiny controller that prevents the battery from being fed 5V so it doesn't... explode. That's also probably why the motherboard won't power up without a battery installed: No battery means that tiny controller isn't powered properly and the power-on line never gets sent to the PSU.
A very long time ago, I used to work on the Chance-Vought (LTV) A7-E aircraft. It was an attack aircraft that used (for the era) some very sophisticated avionics. I worked in the intermediate repair department (not the depot repair), and we used to get first time try to repair units (black boxes) that had failed in the aircraft. This is a tale of a tantalum capacitor that became a diode. Yes, you read this right. Most of the failures of tantalum caps is dead short. When they fail they usually take down a rail and are pretty easy to troubleshoot. But this tantalum was in an A/D converter that was pretty much driving us crazy. Finally, the night crew carefully unsoldered the cap, allowed it to cool off, and did a front to back measurement with diode check. Polarized normally at 15vdc... it was a cap. Charged and discharged normally. Reverse, it was a diode, with a forward bias of silicon diode> 0.6vdc. At 25 volts, forward measurement would charge up the cap, then it would short. Reverse at 25volts, it would be open. Strangest thing I have ever seen.
The moral of the story is, NEVER TRUST A TANTALUM capacitor. I'd change them all out for new ones.
I enjoy your channel very much, Adrian, and thank you for a great video!! Cheers and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
That is a crazy and strange failure mode. It never ceases to amaze me how odd things can be when failing. I've had electrolytic caps fail short and other funny issues that just don't seem possible or right -- but like you found, sometimes it happens.
so you're telling me not everyone knows what a Corsair II is and isn't an aircraft geek?
Tantrum capacitors...
On some old arcade boards I came across a few Tantalums that were turning into Randomness Resistors. For measurement, I use my Testofon which has a 4V potential between the probes and then converts current to frequency on a speaker.
[What's a Testofon?]It will then upload its firmware to your brain which lets you measure not only wires and broken wires, but also resistors, capacitors (capacity AND leakage), diodes and to some extent inductors.
Every resistor has a specific frequency. Every capacitor has a specific frequency curve. And I freaking love this thing![/What's a Testofon?]
These Tantalums made the Testofon play a weird melody... they were all over the place (which also caused the machine to sometimes work).
(translated: These tantalums had a leakage current that translates to a potentiometer someone randomly turns between 100 Ohms and around 10kOhm)
@@adriansdigitalbasement wow Adrian .. you come a long way from the guy that disassemble LED bulbs back in 2014 or 2015..
everything time see you troubleshooting one of this machines like that ... it just wow..... :-) .. definitely thumbs up...
@@cowsgomoo4618 LOL!!! I love that plane. I remember walking on the hanger deck of the USS America (Don’t Tread on Me!) and seeing all those Corsair II’s sitting there with huge pans under them. I asked an ADJ why and he told me, “If the pans are empty of hydraulic fluid, the planes need to be refilled. If there’s small puddles of hydraulic fluid in the pans, they have plenty of fluid.” I learned later that the hydraulic systems seal themselves during flight. Strange design.
The Corsair II could carry twice its weight in armaments. It used a digital computer made by IBM that was the grandson of the Saturn V’s guidance computer. The inertial navigation gyros were made by Singer-Keirfott and were so accurate they could measure the Earth’s wobble.
That was one damn good airplane.
You pronounced the names right! Also, look at my avatar here on youtube, then the sticker again; it's a logo I use when I make computer builds for people, and that sticker is what I use on those machines.
i saw sticker lego look just like ur icon but was upside down sticker
If anyone has trouble seeing the avatar, the sticker is upside down. Turn it about 180 degrees and you'll see at 7:34
Although their sticker actually looks really cool upside down, like a man wearing a long hat that is in the shape of a bird.
I knew that name sounded familiar when I heard it, and the avatar confirmed it. I remember seeing you around on Mario Fan Games Galaxy in the 2000s! Small world.
How many people saw that Adrian recently fixed the 8-Bit Guy's Commander X16 prototype? Absolutely brilliant!
That's the preferred method of getting those capacitors off. You push down and twist. Worked with a guy in the broadcast television repair industry that probably replaced 50,000 capacitors a year and this is how he did it. Never damaged the traces.
I've tried the other methods and once I started using the twist method, I've never had a single damaged trace or pad. Heat and attempting to desolder has resulted in damage... so I abandoned those ways.
@@adriansdigitalbasement Same. I've had far better luck with "push and twist" than trying to desolder with an iron. I used to yell at my computer screen when I saw people do this... not anymore!
When capacitors leak, they release electrolyte. The electrolyte is alkali, which is corrosive. The corrosion seeps into the pads and traces. The effect is accelerated when current is passed through the circuit. Because the pads become fragile, that is why the twist method is not recommended. It applies unnecessary force to the pads which can cause them to break. Heat + activated flux helps to remove the corrosion and free the legs without force, giving you a better chance at not causing damage. The brown/black stuff you see from the activated flux is all the corrosion being washed away from the metal.
That said, I've lost pads using hot air before. Sometimes they're just too far gone. Do whatever method works best for you, but it's best to know and be prepared for trace repairs as these computers continue to age. The surface mount capacitors from this era were particularly bad.
@@bnice7 -- Preferred method in the industry is twisting. You push down on the capacitor with a force and twist. When you do that, the leads break at the board. It only takes 1/4 turn. You don't have to spin it around all day.
@@pmgodfrey Probably a lot more efficient to do it that way, which makes sense in an industrial setting. They probably just toss the board if they do lift any traces and move onto the next one. As a hobbyist and collector, I prefer to treat my own equipment with more care and pay more attention to the science. Using the twist method, if the leads are stronger than the corroded pad, you'll lift the pad 100% of the time. I'd personally rather apply fresh solder, flux and heat. It's a longer process, but less chance of causing damage in my opinion.
I upgraded my Color Classic to an LC550 motherboard which turns the computer into a Color Classic II. Probably the coolest little Mac ever made! Glad you're putting some time in on this, it made me really sad that it wouldn't work before.
I am not the most technical person, but I get so much satisfaction to see Adrian repair all of this retro tech. All of these retro computers remind me of my childhood. I also love the positivity of Adrian and all of the viewers!
The humble appreciation for donations is really nice to see, and really makes these a pleasure to watch.
It seems like eventually every youtuber has a snap and starts taking this for granted, maybe it is just human nature, but is very disappointing to me. Hopefuly our boi keeps his integrity :)
@@zehph I hope so. I stopped watching a few people over this issue in the past.
Adrian won't let us down.
I didn't watch the 8-bit guy from the very beginning, but he's never seemed as genuinely grateful. That being said, he also had a number of red flags, and it turns out he's not a great person.
@@0xTJ He is very knowledgeable but never seemed to be a nice guy as Adrian does, although I am not aware of why he actually would not be a good person, why do you say that?
@@zehph IIRC there's a video of him carrying a large gun at a store, mocking the parents of kids killed in school shootings.
"There are a lot of tantalums and these don't leak!" No they don't, but some of them short and explode when you apply power!
Had a lot of fun with these on two socket 7 boards.
Absolutely true, tantalums may not leak, but when they fail and cause a direct 5V power rail short you will have even more issues then before! Much better to replace with 1uf, 25v nichicon caps so when those fail you only have to replace a capacitor!
i didnt think about that in first place
about tantalum blow up when power get to it
that is interesting thing to know about it
Yeah I had replaced the electrolytic capacitors with tantalums on my mac se/30 and 2 of them exploded inside!
Not for nothing are they nicknamed "tantrum caps"
A chicken pot pie T-shirt? Adrian never ceases to amaze....
When we were young, Bernie's Deli was down the block
(Ooh ooh ooh ooh)
He made a great liver pate
(You know he did, you know he did, you know he did)
But if there's one thing in this world that I like better
Than a corned beef on rye
It's Chicken Pot Pie
Chicken Pot Pie !
Came so eager to make a similar comment, you beat me to it dang! Hahaha
Birds of a feather flock together, right? :)
Buck-buck-buck, buck-buck-buck, buck-buck. Buck-buck-buck, buck-buck-buck-buck-buck!
Hahaha!! 😆😂 Weird Al would be proud!
How can I get one????
Thank you for getting around to the Color Classic. When I was in grade school in Oregon in the early 90’s we had a mix of computers in the classroom, but the Color Classic was the “Cadillac” and there were so few that it was a very sought after machine to use. Can’t wait for the Macintosh Portable series!
I had the same experience but in Sydney Australia , I remember using millies math house and Mac paint
adrian is the type of person who never gives up on dead machines
Hey Adrian, just wanted to thank you on your video.
I got a CC that wouldn't turn on. Did regular recap and cleaning. And it wouldn't turn on. After a lot of researching (I also got to those schematics eventually and they're so helpful!) I almost gave up on this board.
Went trace by trace on the U7 and U8 chips, checking continuity, and couldn't find the fault.
Today, by completely random chance, I saw your video.
Somehow I missed trying connections that go to J13-10 and J13-14. Lo and behold, the connection from J13-10 to U8-2 was severed. Did the same fix as you, and now I have a happy CC that turns on!
Thank you!!
7:33 If you flip the sticker over, it's a cat wearing a hat.
32:07 "There's just no sound all together."
Everyone watching at home: "There's just no sound."
You come across as such an amazing man. No wonder people want to help you. :D
It's amazing how being a pleasant person is a rarity these days. Adrian isn't pushing an agenda or shoving advertising down our throats, he just wants to fix computers and share the journey with us. I don't know what he's like in person but I can't imagine this is all an act.
“Maybe there are schematics for this board...”
Apple: “Wait that’s illegal.”
Apple used to make service manuals for all their stuff readily available, back when they were a better company.
Can't believe that such a stupid comment got hearted by Adrian.
@Robert F If the right to repair is so important for you then I got an easy fix: instead of writing hate comments, just don't buy Apple products. Bye.
Hi Adrian. Some notes:
1) the Performa 475 motherboard also requires the PRAM battery, so you’re not alone.
2) IIRC, those batteries are 12v, not 3v, but check the documentation, first! Never mind; you schematic shows 3v.
3) when you were showing the board with the caps off, it looked like one of them, the trace was corroded off (nearby). (@16:42, if you look just under and to the left of C11’s (+) pad.)
4) it looks like the motherboard is missing an IC (there’s a PLCC socket, but no IC in it.)
5) a “real” 68040 (as opposed to the 68LC040) has Floating-point registers and ALU, but runs hotter; I recommend a peel-and-stick heat sink at minimum - just be sure it has clearance when you put it back into the case!
6) while tantalum electrolytic caps don’t leak, then can fail dead short; measure resistance across the power rails.
I must admit as a trained electronics engineer seeing someone with such enthusiasm and attention to detail is great. I am an avid watcher. Your channel is brilliant 💡
That's a low-end 68040, it's the 68LC040 which was fitted to the LC machines and lacks an FPU. It's not hard to swap it out for a 'full' 68040 however, that's a popular upgrade to LC machines.
I *just* test booted my Color Classic this morning as I'd re-capped the Apple IIe card in it and was testing it. Funny enough, it had no audio for the first boot which freaked me out a bit (it had already been re-capped and it had been working fine). The next reboot and subsequent ones, audio was fine.
If you still have audio issues, definitely look at corrosion around the sound chip, U5 as it's common for that area to be a problem with the 4 caps that are around it.
That was a beautiful "Would you look at that!". Good that you did not give up on that board. Schematic-level troubleshooting is the most interesting to watch.
Your videos are the one thing to help me wind down, just someone who loves retro PCs fixing them and sometimes you geek out with us
So nice to watch a motherboard recap on a rainy day.
I just gotta say, I love that purple/grey color of the CPU. That alone brings back memories of 90s computing.
Adrian, it's always a joy to watch your videos. Thanks 👍🇮🇪
On most beige Macs, Cmd-Power is an NMI. You can usually type ES to return to the desktop if you invoke it unintentionally during normal operation or type G FINDER to try to get out of a crashed program and return to the Finder and save your work before restarting. The latter doesn't always work, though, especially if there are larger problems beyond an uncooperative program, in which case you can try to type RB to reboot if the system crashed hard and won't go back to the Finder. You could also install MacsBug where cmd-power brings you to the MacsBug debug screen from which you can view debug info and input advanced commands or return to the desktop via either of the previous methods (assuming the system hasn't crashed, in which case MacsBug shows you a huge screen full of debug info for review).
On the CC and other AIO Macs, the sound amp is on the analog board, which also likely needs to be recapped. If you have sound problems regardless of which logic board you try, it's likely that you either have a problem on the analog board or something between there and the speaker (the wire is really long; maybe you nicked it?).
Your Mystic upgrade board will require a VRAM SIMM before it will work, just fyi (it has none onboard unlike the CC or CCII boards). You have two options for the Mystic mod procedure: the quick and easy way with a simple logic board mod to enable it to use the CC's 512x384 display (by default the 575's LB runs 640x480 which is incompatible with stock CC), or you can do a hi-res mod to the CC's analog board to enable 640x480 resolution on the built-in display. The hi-res mod will follow with any subsequent logic board using the 640x480 resolution (including the stock board) with no further mods, unlike the 575 LB mod which would only affect that particular board. It kind of depends on how invasive you want to get and if you want those extra pixels.
Very cool!
I will add Mac colour classics are very picky with boot up when you pull the motherboard out and swap batteries. I went threw the same problem you had. But I read somewhere you have to let them sit for a while with the battery installed. Mine wouldn’t turn on with a new battery for quite a while. I let it sit overnight went and hit the startup button in the morning and it started right up.
The Mystic upgrade seems to be gaining a bit of popularity in the vintage Mac community. Bruce from Branchus Creations made an excellent video explaining the Mystic upgrade and how it came about; it's well worth checking out before committing to the Mystic upgrade.
29:59 And there it is.. Great job 👏👏👏
It appears that a channel run by someone who comes across as a really great guy, attracts really great viewers who are very generous.
The best part for me was the piece of cake right behind the computer chassis, I love have some cake and tea while I am working as well 😎😁
Aaah finally the notifications worked and I'm here freshly.
what notifications? I've been refreshing for the last couple of hours
Nice! Nothing like seeing a Happy Mac icon after hours of work!! I have a Mac SE repair video coming out tomorrow using some of these same techniques.
command control power was the reset command for most of the beige macs- this was the standard way to reboot after a hard freeze all the way through the 90s. I’m pretty sure it persisted through the later macs until they removed the standalone power button from the keyboards in the 2000s.
Wow, that was a real slog but I bet you're glad you stuck at it! So good to bring one of these classic machines back from the dead. I actually found myself thinking "I wonder if he'll put an LC575 motherboard in it" as it's an upgrade I was aware of but know nothing about, so it'll be cool to learn some more about it!
Amazing, I was a happy owner of an old CC that my first employer give to me, here, in mexico. Unfortunately i sold it about 15 years ago but on that era I found some nice japanese people whom upgrade it to g3 imac logic board. I conserve my very first powerMac from the university, PM5500/250 with a battery dead. Nice videos.
One of the best ways to check a board is to take diode, resistor measurements on each pin of all IC and components. Taking the positive to GND and the negative to the test-point.
This technique is used by most of the Flying probes to test boards.
Sure you need another board to compare it.. but sometimes even without that you can figure out the problem.
It was better to take out the oxidized chip and clean it and replaced again to see how much was damaged.
thanks for the video
This is why I like your channel so much - you have a persistence in getting things to work that most other channels do not pursue. Keep up the good work!
love watching your channel Adrian, was never had a computer when young parents too poor, but i used to play with a friends computer with him, zx spectruml your videos bring back memories thanks
Wow, crazy to learn you are type 1; my aunt is type 1 and I used to have to run in and take care of her low sugar sometimes. It was scary! But the plus side is I now know the symptoms of low/high blood sugar. Great video, always love watchin'!
I first found the Apple //e nerve pinch worked on a Mac LC II by sheer accident, and I've used it successfully on my original LC and my LC 630.
Nice ! Congratulations ! The key comb to restart the Classic is the same on LC Macintoshes who also don't have a reste nor interrupt button
WOW Adrian (@Adrian's Digital Basement).. you come a long way from the guy that disassemble LED bulbs back in 2014 or 2015..
everything time see you troubleshooting one of this machines like that ... it just wow..... :-) .. definitely thumbs up...
1:38 when's the last time you heard a funky diabetic? Shout out to Adrian and A Tribe Called Quest from a fellow type 1 insulin pump user
He's got the 'betes
Happy new year and happy dentist. ;)
@@Aaaalteer ummm, what?
My grandfather used to use Necco Wafers for a sugar boost until they stopped making them. Now he uses gumdrops.
@@TheLucidLuxray juice or soda is a much better solution that he might want to try, chewing small candies is a slow process for bringing one's blood sugar back up because of the amount of time it takes to consume them relatively speaking, if it works for him that's cool and I'm sure he probably already realizes how much quicker drinking a sugary beverage would be but if you're ever with him and he starts acting weird def get some sugar in him in the quickest easiest to swallow way possible
30:42 - "FANSPIN!!!!!! FANSPIN!" Trying to do my best Louis Rossmann impression...
Control+Command+Power key will sometimes start up a Mac with either a bad or missing battery. I can't say I've tried that on a Color Classic, but it does work on a few LC models.
Awesome to see it come to life! Good Deal... my next project is to revive my iici ,,, Thanks for all the teck notes - super helpful! -Tim
Good job getting the Color Classic to boot up! Regarding the Color Classic not booting without the battery, I’ve experienced the same with an SE30.
Great to see this machine being lovingly brought back to life, also heart warming to hear how excited you got when it finally booted! Keep them coming Adrian, loving it!
Great video. Love seeing board repairs. Soldering and working on vintage tech is fun.
Happy Cola is the best! It's hard to find here in Australia, so when I was a kid my German relatives would stuff their suitcases with bags of Happy Cola, and I'd try to ration it so it lasted until their next visit.
Nice job with the Color Classic Adrian! They're not the easiest machines to work on. Thank god mine is still safe and sound after recapping and rebuilding. I love these little machines and always enjoy your cheers of enthousiasm when your works pays of. Keep up the good work! 👍
I like these detailed, methodic approaches of yours to solve otherwise complicated and confusing issues.
Adrian! Love your channel! A little bird (actually Kevin Williams) told me you fixed the Commander X16. Incredible! You have just made my whole year! Thanks for all the joy you bring this world!
Wow, that company for that schematic is from Casper, Wyoming. That's a small town I grew up in that NO ONE on Earth has heard of. Crazy! It's the only thing since I left there in 2001 that has come up in any form of media that I know of. It's a small town of less than 20,000.
It's nice to be able to work "alongside" someone else having the same sort of issues, presently trying to restore a BASF/Canon 5.25" floppy that has leaky caps and mouse poo on it, don't ask, it was cheap, and surprisingly the caps aren't even surface-mount, but they have expelled their juice unfortunately... :P
Don't forget that a viewer sent in a hand held microscope a few weeks ago. I've used them for inspecting traces and pins in the past and they really help. They'd also give us some good footage to watch!
Nice that you mention it, people often do not understand what diabetes is.
That 0 sugar is not the solution, sugar is no poison, even to someone diabetic.
(for everyone who does not know: You "only" have to manually compensate for the body not regulating the sugar levels in your blood)
I am not affected yet, but my father has been diabetic for a few years now.
At first i was scared due to my lack of knowledge and I really do blame movies for that, who often portray it wrong.
It turned out better that the MB didn't work, because repair vids are the best.
I had to support a Color Classic back when I was a student worker.
Thanks big time for fixing the Commander X16 - would be great to see a video that talks about that
Nice job. I look forward to the next segment.
Love it! Your videos give me the sense that maybe I could fix something. Unfortunately, my reality is different.
"Open Apple" is called the command key on the Macintosh.
It's also called a "Cincinnati Spaghetti Key"
@@spacewolfjr my family always called it the "splat key"
Be that as it may, a lot of us who worked and played on pre-Mac Apples still say "Open Apple" by habit. It's like calling an Apple motherboard a "logic board" even thought that's just meaningless Apple jargon.
@@iroll I was just adding that because Adrian said in the video that he didn't know what the key was called on the Mac.
I had the floppy disk loop issue on a LC475 that I recapped, exact same symptoms as you have. Turned out that one of the capacitor legs touched another trace that had solder mask on, but caused issues. I recommend looking those over and checking there's no overlap on any of those.
Interesting video. I like learning about older Macs.
Awesome video. Nice recovery from part 1!
I Don't Honestly Know How I Stumbled upon this channel myself
That moment where you say ‘I knew it!’ I had a feeling you were type 1. Me too since 2004. Very late onset, just before I was 21. I do the same thing with having some delicious treats around for hypos.
That translucent ZIP drive in the last few seconds of the video is awesome. Haven´t seen one before.
Great video Adrian. A small tip. When using desoldering braid, I always cut it so that a bit of solder stays there. That serves as a starter for next time.
Awesome video once again, really enjoying them. :) Regarding the twisty caps, if it works that's fine, but to me it looks like it takes more time and has increased risk. Just heating them up and removing them completely seems faster.
Regarding the sound, on my Color Classic fix, the issue was the wire going to the speaker, so I will check the speaker with a battery. Their is a IC on the Analog board that control the sound amplifier. Does go bad some times...You can get then for $1 online.
Happy New Year, Adrian! Our Haribo Ambassador. Hence, we shall address you as The Honorable Mr. Black :-).
There's a store nearby (20km) which when the Crocrocooch stops, I'll probably visit this "Real Canadian Superstore" from Prezzy's Choice just to get Colas. None at the No Frills.
I’d like your pump. I just switched from the MiniMed 670G to the t:slim and am loving the pump. The sensor is so much better then Medtronic’s. Also love the video!
Hello from Bavaria, Germany. As said from many people many times before, now also said by me: "You've got an awesome channel!"
I'm a Type I Diabetic for 41 years myself and Haribos are good friends of mine since a loooooooooooong time ;-)
Very interested in the "setup" that you are using for your "Diabetes-Management" (my "little diabetes hellhound" is often very resistant against any "Management").
I'm using a Medtronic 640G Insulinpump and an Abbott Freestyle FGM for Glucose Measurement.
Keep up the good work and stay safe during these crazy times...
That was great! This is turning into a three parter! I actually just finished watching the Mac classics repairathon right before this one went live.
Fascinating episode. I love that T-shirt, too!
Exciting stuff when it turns on! I must say that when debugging software I've never felt comfortable putting in a fix without understaind the root cuase. I dont think I ever have. Hardware... well - that's a different kettle of fish!
The amazing part for me is what you do off camera, being able to decipher what's going on in the schematics and then put it to use debugging the motherboard is pretty cool. I wish there was more old-school Mac stuff on UA-cam (we need a month of Macintosh :-/)...the Mac IIsi was my first real computer after the QL. I was so excited to finally have a Mac back in the early 90's (they were not cheap). I did, for a short time, own a Mac Color Classic in the early 2000's...not sure why I didn't hold on to it. Happy New Year!
@8-Bit Retro Journal -- Yeah, we need a Mac Month, I suggest March, and then we can call it March Macness!
@@michaelburns8073 I've previously proposed MArChintosh but I also like March MACness...
Waw you outdid yourself today.. Great job man .....thank you very much.
Awesome video! Watching because I just got a color classic that won't turn on. Hopefully, the new battery does it otherwise I will be re-capping and then going through each step from there.
Great video. I always wanted to see the inside of Mac Color Classic. Well done. Can’t wait for the part2 video.
13:46 - it's normally a 3.6V battery, also @ 18:12, they are not proprietary batteries, they just aren't as commonly used...
We should start building “Bodge Vieas” into our boards. 20 or 30 dead vias spread arround the board with no electrical connection. Intended for repairs and such.
Right line is "Its Alive!".
Awesome. I need to pull my Mac classic out and fix the floppy drive one of these days
In addition to corroded legs on U7, I notice a few dodgy-looking vias near it and Y1.
Looks like a possible broken trace to one leg of Y1 as well. But it seems those are fine, nice!
Probably a broken speaker from the battery-vapors, would be my guess, or else a broken trace.
Intriguing progress!
It's always great to see your Macintosh themed videos! I have a troubleshooting suggestion for you: I have found that with many Macintosh boards the electrolyte from the capacitors sometimes leaks underneath the ICs. This fluid can cause the ICs to behave abnormally. There may still be a bit of leaked electrolyte underneath this particular chip. I think it might be a good idea to try pulling the IC, cleaning underneath it with Isopropyl alcohol, and soldering it back down. I couldn't quite make it out in the video, but I know that with Mac Classic II's the chip that is worst affected by this fluid is called the Egret chip. I look forward to seeing more videos about this computer!
The IBM PS/2 (at least the model 25, the one I'm familiar with) is another example of a machine that needs a good clock battery (in the form of one of those Dallas chips) to boot.
Same with Siemens Nixdorf 486 computers. The &%€ Dallas battery has to be replaced to get the computer to boot
Make sure that the speaker is working 😀 My 3 hours of trouble shooting of a board experience is suggesting ...
I love that chicken pot pie shirt. It's the command key, but I do remember a teacher back in high school refer to it as the open apple key.
I would have used MLCC capacitors instead of regular electrolytics. I think new electrolytics won't leak (not soon anyway), but MLCC are forever and work fine on these old boards.
Excellent troubleshooting. Thanks! Regarding the CTRL+COMMAND+POWER to reset, that still works through PPC and to this day on present Macs (At least Intel). For MacBooks with Touch ID it is CTRL+COMMAND+TOUCH ID button.
I've been using the twist method since you started doing that in your channel, is the best working method I have tried!
I had a Compaq LTE 4/25 monochrome laptop which had a CR2032 and a CR2340 coin cell battery on the motherboard. And without the CR2340, it did not even power on.
Word up from another T1D with a Color Classic... Well, 2! One works after an easy recap.. will the other boot? NOPE. Looking for ideas. Love the videos, keep it up :)
My guess is that pin 10 on that edge connector is the PWRON command to the PSU, which has to be pulled low, and pin 14 is the PWRGOOD returning from the PSU which allows the clock generator to start.
Perhaps -- or the other way around. :-) It's hard to troubleshoot due to the damn design of the case!
@@adriansdigitalbasement I'm pretty confident it's in that order. The weird chip in between the microcontroller and the battery is probably a tiny controller that prevents the battery from being fed 5V so it doesn't... explode.
That's also probably why the motherboard won't power up without a battery installed: No battery means that tiny controller isn't powered properly and the power-on line never gets sent to the PSU.
I'm enjoying some Haribo Happy Colas while I watch your repair video.
I think the Control-Apple-Reset was added to Macintosh with the LC and later Macs up to I think PowerBook G4 if I remember right.