Bret Tkacs was wrong... Footpeg Weighting is CRUCIAL | MiniTip Monday
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MotoTrek is a genuine gem. That channel has helped more people with their ADV riding than you can imagine. Slick production, incredible scripting but there was one video that I feel was a mistake.
The subject of footage pressure is complex, and that goes right to the highest level of off-road riding. We're all, always learning but I felt we needed to explain things a little better and address some of the mistakes in the OG video.
If you like this video and wished you'd seen it earlier, come say high on Patreon.
The key here is using your body weight to control the center of gravity of the bike+rider. Footpeg weighting is a symptom of moving your bodyweight off the side of the bike. Gravity doesnt care how you are touching the bike, all that matters is the body's center of gravity relative to the bike's.
Well said.
I've tried to follow what Brett has said on the matter, and now you - but it's extremely difficult to separate what the feet and body are doing with handlebar inputs. Especially if you don't want to fall over. :D Even the physics can get complicated (and physicists love nothing more than simplifying things radically) because not only is the weight of your body, while standing, supported by the pegs (modeling this, just replace the rider with variable masses on the pegs) but once you start moving around the knees are pressing against the bike you have to account for those forces along with what is going on at the handle bars. I'd rather walk at this point! LOL
This is what helped me for technical, low-speed, and off-road/slippery surfaces:
Steer with your feet. Use your bodyweight to shove the bike around underneath you. Shove it wherever you want to go!
Once leaned over, counterbalance the outside foot peg. Bike leans; you don't.
You're in command, so look the part by being tall on top of the bike. Get up over the bars whenever you need to assert your dominance.
stand up on a rolling bike, release the handlebars and try lifting one foot. physics will self-explain very fast.
@@stavrozinio LOL
@@stavrozinio absolutely
@@stavrozinio On the other hand, go into a slightly left banking turn, let go of the handlebars and apply right foot pressure, physics will also help understand that foot pressure is only small part of the equation.
Great mini tip Monday. Very well explained. Thanks
When snow skiing you weight the right ski to turn right, or is it the other way around. Haven't two planked since I learned to ride (board). Same principle, though.
Otherway around. Weight the outside ski. Left weight turns right.
What you're doing is leaning the bike to the inside for more lean angle and leaning your body to the outside to counterbalance for which you're correct. What Brett was doing is keeping the bike more upright so he doesn't need to introduce any lean angle if possible and in his case to keep the bike upright his body was pushed to the inside, that's why his right knee was pushed against the tank on a left turn. HE is correct and YOU are correct. Two different techniques. I would use his technique during a bit faster off-road turns and I use your technique during slow off-road turns.
Spot on! 👍
Perfect explanation. 👌
Yes! I do lean like this (counterbalance with body weight, etc) at lower speeds and practically do all the steering with my feet, but for a high speed drift around a turn, I found it to be safest with the bike more upright and weight on the outside peg and leg pushing in - this is when I think of Brett’s tips. It took me a bit of practice and it still surprises me how well it works.
@@jalex19100 It's funny how Pavey came to chritisize one of the experts. He could just share his low speed approach which is still very applicable. He must have not advised with his father on this one. But who cares, we are making comments here and that what he is looking.
If we take a look at the most technical off-road discipline, mototrials, we can see that footpeg weighting is one of the fundamentals of off-road riding.
Not just offroad. On pavement is also a must to understand.
Good point
Yep. You nailed it.
Yeah, on a trials bike you rarely ride with actual gyroscopic forces at the wheels stabilising you. transfering that to faster riding or even street riding is a dangerous thing to believe in.
@@DennisGarage even at "high speeds" your weight should be handled by your feet/knees more than your ass, because it has no ways to respond to changes in balance.
Honestly, I think the different techniques are BOTH/AND rather then EITHER/OR. Bret emphasizes riders employ a "weightless" approach with different techniques & body positions to control bike stability & improve confidence. These are starting points for learning how to receive feedback from the bike in various conditions that can then support more assertive riding by weighting the footpegs which requires the understanding of body positions to deploy mass. In other words, if one starts weighting the pegs without complementary body position to balance the bike, the see-saw may do what we don't want.
Going from riding a mountain bike to an adventure moto I was super confused by the argument not to weight the peg. On an MTB if you're really railing a corner, you put all your weight through the outside pedal, a lot like the counterbalance point of this video, and that really translates to the moto. I figured I was just teaching myself bad habits using the pegs a lot, so it's nice to see this video, thansk!
It's different on a bermed corner though where you do put pressure on the outside (or evenly between the two) as because you are technically pushing off the bank of the berm. On a flat corner you lean the bike and not yourself and you are weighting the inside pedal more but in the flat position rather than pedal down if that makes sense. This is the same on a motorcycle, except the pegs stay level.
@@streddaz I respectfully disagree, or maybe I'm misunderstanding your view. Berms are more of a pedals flat, keep your bike perpendicular to the berm. Flat corners drop a pedal and keep your weight on the outside foot to keep the pressure on the side knobs and pressing the bike into the ground. Both types the goal is to keep your weight perpendicular to the contact patch and both rely on outside weight to achieve that, berms are just easier/allow you to carry much greater speed. Sure there's a moment of inside weight to initiate the lean of the bike, but you always want to put the pressure on the outside and keep that weight perpendicular.
@@HandyTot after thinking about it some more I think you are right. You would think it would be the same for a motor bike except the different heights of the pedals.🤔
Exactly as Travis Rea said, that`s correct technique
@@HandyTot "keep your weight perpendicular to the contact patch"... a unifying concept/technique?
I’ve watched Brett s few times and he is a good rider but my experience of his videos is that he doesn’t know what makes him a good rider and he is teaching something he is not actually doing….. vote for Llel. Vote for: Pedro
This lines up with a lot of what I've learned. I think a lot of new riders hear "weight the outside peg" and fail to understand that you have to weight the INSIDE peg to make quick maneuvers, but you don't stay on that peg as you make longer or sharper turns.
This may help. Don't think of weighting the peg, but rather un-weighting the peg. If your riding in a straight line lifting the foot pressure off the left peg will make your bike go right. This maneuver is best used for quick adjustments to direction. Not meant to be carried longer than a second or two.
the weighting the outside footpeg mucked me up for the first 6 months. the bike felt like it was fighting me. now I'm starting to get when to, but still tricky.
adv coaches really need to be offroad racers or motocrossers.
@@hoosiertrailrider you probably are a skier, too, aren’t you? Un-weighting is the term they use, for the same reason. It works well in that context, because the skis have so little “suspension”: most of that “unweighting” work is done with our bodies, as Llew shows in this vid.
@@oosteveo315 100%. Too many opinions from people who barely know how to ride. All these techniques have been well documented over the years by pros. Ever since I started moving towards ADV from enduro/motox I'm shocked by the amount of mediocre riders giving questionable advice
You and Bret are both describing different techniques to acomplish the same task. I do prefer yours, but both work.
To make a bike turn there has to be lean, there are different ways to make the bike lean. Countersteer and weight transfer of the rider alone.
If you are one mass with the bike, then moving your mass will initiate the lean. If you are floating (seperate masses) then adding weight the bike 'sees' at the pegs (or any other place) will initate a lean. Street riders usually ride as one with the bike, and off road riders will usually ride 'above' the bike. This is due to the amount of surface traction available.
Counter steering. When you do this inertia causes the mass to rotate around the center of the steering column. Front tire forward rolling resistance is increased by the rider input and inertia carries the rear mass forward around this center, the bike tries to fold itself up, causing the lean.
No right or wrong, just different techniques to accomplish the same task.
thnaks to point it ! the floating masses are anythng to consider, as sustentation triangle base of footpegs is really short..
I think countersteering makes the bike react a lot faster than weight on pegs.
Counter steering is an essential part of riding no matter what other techniques you employ. Not really comparable to the others.
Peg weighting and riding in a position that allows light pressure on the handle bars is the key to riding off-road. Think of riding a horse, no handlebars. If you have too much pressure on your bars you know your out of position. Basically it’s when I know I’m getting tired and if I have to correct myself a few times I stop and rest.
That's a damn fine analogy.
most of these adv coaches are noobs. If you haven't been racing and riding motocross/offroad your entire life, you don't belong coaching offroad. Brett's a nice guy and explains stuff well, but... come on man. He'd get smoked in the C class. And he's a pro? COME TF ON bro.
So basically I weight my inside peg to help initiate lean angle and turning but during the turn I always weight my outside peg for better downward force of the part of the tyre that has contact for better traction, especially on loose or slippery surfaces
Exactly. That is exactly how it works.
Exactly
doing this you are moving your body gravity center first on right, elaning bike then counterbalance on left ... Nothing special, just primary school physics... NOw I wait for some guys to tell to press tank with knees on fast curves to prevent bike moving :) :) Because everyone knows that 3 kg pressure by knees will rigidify a steekl or aluminium frame. same old story there : press your knees, you will stop locking the hande bars, making a PIO... Press your peg : it will force you to move your body
I agree with some of the other commenters here, body position is what matters. To take this to an extreme, go back to your example where you are standing on only one peg. Steer in a bunch of different directions, while only standing on one peg. You can do it. 100% of your weight on one peg, you can still steer a bit left, a lot left, or steer right.
Footpeg weighting is a cue, and yes, biomechanically, a lot of good body position comes with weight moving between the footpegs, but that isn't the CAUSE.
This is a silly conversation. You said the magic word yourself. "Physics".
The bike is a rigid object. The pegs are rigidly fixed to each other. If you hold yourself firmly on the bike, you're affixed to it as well, and your mass and movement affects it, but where on the bike you're affixed to is nearly irrelevant. If you strapped your left boot to the left footpeg and leaned way right, you'd have 100% of your bodyweight on the left footpeg, but the bike would most definitely act like your weight is on the right, because it *is*.
Pushing down on one side is just the most natural way to get people to move their weight to that side. That's all it is. That "pressure" is your weight. You've moved your weight, that's what gets you the real outcome.
i think weighting the footpegs does have its place. but its definitely not way to turn or to initiate a turn ;
yes, it only applies when you are standing :D you can't do this sitting down :D being able to stand while riding a motorcycle is key for very uneven surfaces
@@mannyechaluce3814 non sequitur
Some seem to suggest weighting the inside foot, others the outside foot to "put down" traction on the inside of the tire. I'm wondering if this isn't two seperate moments of inertia and force. Do we initiate an inside turn with the inside foot (heel down, as you show) and then, once in the turn, weight the outside to put traction stright down to the inside of the tire, the part now in connection to the track? Like countersteering on the road, the turn is initiated by pushing on the opposite side of the handlabar, but it transitions, and the turn is navigated with the pressure on the bars moving to the inside. Considering the inertia and forces are changing dynamically in both instances, dirt and road, while the traction is negotiated differently in each case as the turn continues. Does this make sense? Am I wrong? What do you think? Perhaps a follow up video?
That is exactly correct.
Lol. You can’t have the correct body position, and not weight the pegs like you’re suggesting. Hence, Bret’s point is correct, the weighting is an output of body positioning and it’s the body positioning that is key. I give you credit for having the balls to say Bret is wrong though.
It's an interesting point Ryan, but I disagree. Brett isn't weighting the pegs as effectively as he could be here because of his position. I don't make the rules man 🤣
I'm sure he's a great rider, there is tons of footage of him in difficult places but we can also disagree on these things.
@@BrakeMagazine You’re using one clip to make your point. I’m sure we could find a clip of you not having perfect body positioning. Just because you can find a single example, it doesn’t invalidate his point. You’re just cherry picking to try and substantiate the title of your video. Come on man.
@@BrakeMagazine talking about how his positions are bad and drain energy. I agree with you... but maybe he is exaggerating things to show a point.
@@ryanmalone2681 He's not just cherry picking, there are plenty of examples of bad body positioning in basically every one of Brets videos. Bret isn't a bad rider, but there are plenty of times he's getting away with bad positioning through other skills. The main point is that Brets argument about peg weighting and body positioning while standing are wrong.
@@MeerkatADV The point is that the correct body positioning weights the pegs, not whether the weighting of pegs is important or not.
Well, seeing how you and Bret, as well as Motojitsu are a world away from my skills, I'll just have to try and distill it all down to my level. But by all means, keep the content coming.
Nothing compared to Tom Barrer in France. Even if you don't understand French, you can see that his technique is exceptionnal. He has many video's off road with a GSA 1250.
Brett is a clown with incredibly little experience for being an "instructor."
I've tested the footpeg pressure method and it's brilliant. You really feel the bike responding. I combined this with keeping my body upright and working on heels down into the turn. Think I'm getting there! Got an off-road training course in two weeks. Crash bars, Barkbusters and Mitas are on! It's now or never!
I've done a lot of mucking about with this, and I don't agree.
"footpeg pressure" seems to be a way of explaining locating you body's centre of gravity in a particular place.
If you keep your CoG constant and vary footpeg pressure it doesn't do anything. It can't do anything.
If you vary footpeg pressure and use the bars to keep yourself stable, the bike turns.
If you vary footpeg pressure without bar input you must compensate by
moving your CoG or pressure on the inside of your weighted leg, or you'll fall off. So what you're really doing if you weight pegs without holding yourself still with your knee, is shifting your weight around.
Generally if you shift your weight around you'll put input into the bars without realising.
So you're really just steering.
PS, if footpeg weighting did anything bicycles would be almost impossible to control. The weighting jumps from side to side constantly. Yet I can ride around quite comfortably hands off the bars. Despite the steep steering head angle, short rake, short wheelbase and narrow tyres with the peg weighting jumping around like a mad thing.
In this video, I ride along and change direction by taking my foot off the peg without moving and the bike turns.
You can feel this by riding no hands or with one hand on the handlebar. I also made a video about that if it helps 😊
Also, pedalling a bicycle does affect the direction. That's why they get smoother at speed or with smoother pedal strokes. When you try and ride slowly without hands it's really touch. Gyroscopic effect of the wheels balances out your side to side movement as you speed up.
When you ride a mtb, pedal pressure is very important for control for the same reason as it is on am off road motorcycle.
@@BrakeMagazine if you're talking about 2:07 I can see you clearly shifting your weight swinging your head and rotating your body. That might feel like "weighting the pegs" and certainly the weight on the pegs is changing, but you're also clearly steering. It's not a clear case of holding your hands and body still, and changing the weighting.
If you feel like "weighting the pegs" is easier to teach, or works for you as a mental model, that's fine, but it's not what is actually happening.
It looks like that because when the bikes lean changes, the steering moves in the direction.
That's what happens when you countersteer on the road too. You're counter steering to make it lean. The front wheel doesn't keep point right while you're going left. When you lean a bike using the footpegs you create the same effect.
Also, weighting the pegs is moving your body weight to apply it to one peg more than the other. My body has to move to do that.
It doesn't work at speed because the force isn't as effective at overcoming the momentum and gyroscopic effect in the same way.
I would also like to point out this is not my 'theory', this is commonly accepted, commonly taught and understood by almost every experienced off road rider on the planet. 😊
Great video! I've been trying to apply these "knee pressure and hips way outside of the bike" technique without success. The bike just doesn't turn. And then I found some other videos (and now yours) explaining the peg weighting and tried it. It works like a cham to me! I have way more control of the bike during turns. Thanks for the content.
Glad it was helpful!
In a turn a centrifugal force acts to the outside of the turn through the COMBINED centre of gravity of the bike and your body. Shift your body one way and you have to shift the bike the other way to maintain a constant turn. Physics only cares about your body position with regard to what effect it has on the COMBINED centre of gravity.
Stand with your feet apart and try to weight your left foot by just lifting your right foot. You will fall to the right. You have to transfer your weight to your left foot by FIRST pushing with your right foot to transfer weight to your left foot. If you try this with you hands off the handlebars the turn will be pretty sluggish. Combining a little counter steering with the handlebars and weight transfer on the pegs is more effective.
Once you are in a stable turn If you weight the inside peg in a turn and fall it will be hard to lift your foot off the peg and step out to prevent it being caught under the bike. If your weight is on the outside peg it is much easier to step away from the bike.
Thanks for this this Llel, I might finally understand this concept! I started trail riding a year ago and I've been very confused by this. I've been on training days with 4 different off road schools and they've all said something different. Bret's videos are great but that one confused me although I've been taught something similar elsewhere also.
The first time I went trail riding (on an ADV bike) I was told to weight the inside peg to turn and then move the weight to the outside to balance the bike (no mention of weighting the outside peg). This was an intro to trail riding so they were giving us some basics to survive a day of trail riding.
The next place (on a dirt bike) said to weight the outside peg to turn which on its own just turns you towards the outside.
When I went to a more prestigious enduro school I was told to turn like Bret - essentially to turn in by going up on your toes on the outside peg and turning in with your outside knee and move your body to the outside (similar to what my back leg would be doing in a golf swing follow through or when turning in skiing). I found this difficult and confusing as up to this point I'd been turning by weighting the inside peg and pushing my knee into the tank didn't do a whole log for me except make me eat mud. I mentioned that I previously was taught to weight the inside peg to turn (and that's what was working for me) and I was told that that is known as "tip in" turning and is used more on ADV bikes - you weight the inside peg to tip the bike then transfer your weight to the outside peg as you lean towards the outside to balance the bike. They said to just skip the step and turn in with the knee. These guys also told me to go up on my toes when going uphill and the rest of the time have my heels down (I'm not sure if going uphill is an exception to the heels down rule).
I've tried what Bret suggested but that really didn't work for me.
Clinton Smout (who's often on Adventure Rider Radio) says to weight the inside peg (he demos by taking a foot off the peg and you'll turn the opposite direction). ua-cam.com/video/joRehSvl-AI/v-deo.html
Until your video no one has addressed what I think is the missing piece of the puzzle for me, that speed and lean angle come into play which makes a lot of sense.
For me weighting the inside peg makes sense to get the bike tipped into a turn. Also I understand that if the bike is leaned over you need to slide your body to the outside to balance the bike and also prevent the bike slipping.
Sooooo, If I understand correctly then, I should weight the inside peg for course adjustments, gentler turns and say initiating a tighter turn. If I'm doing a slow tighter turn the bike will need to lean more so AFTER it is tipped in enough with inside peg weighting I would then move my weight to the outside peg as I would have had to move my body to the outside more to balance also? Having my weight on the outside peg at a greater lean would also help dig the tyres in and prevent slipping also. Sound about right or have I confused myself more? 🙃
I tend to believe most steering is done through the bars and that weight shifting is for balance/counterbalance. Foot position on the pegs depends on where I want to put pressure against the bike. In some turns, I'll be on the ball of my foot with the toe pointed inward so I can get my knee pressed in tighter. Or I might be heels down and toe in so I can squeeze the bike with my legs, but still allow my hips to swing side to side (like when riding through sand). While this is for road riding, Dylan Code has this interesting video about the bars being the most effective for quick turns, and it shows how ineffective weight shifting is for turning the bike: ua-cam.com/video/8VqXBA-sGHA/v-deo.html
But isn’t this video more designed for road vs dirt ? They are different techniques no?
You cannot separate steering and balance. Steering through the handlebars is how we maintain balance ALL of the time. Even standing and weighting the pegs you will still be using the handlebars to maintain balance. Where using your feet to pressure the inside peg works really well to initiate turns is where the front wheel has low traction.
Take a course with Jimmy Lewis in Nevada and I challenge you to "demonstrate" what you are talking about. Good riders like Jimmy Lewis can let go of the handle bars and control the bike with much less effort by using the pegs to steer and pure balance. At the end of the day it is all about being balanced. Try the good ole handlebar steering in sand lol.
@@coochb945 You can ride totally hand free no need to touch the bars.
Bret's technique works better for him because license plates are smaller in the US. Adam Riemann does everything backwards because he's upside down in Australia. 🙂
Easily the best comment so far 😂 Pinned for sure.
From physics point of view lots of things are happening around a bike. It's not just pressure and weight and they are not the same. It's about controlling your bike and your self each by them self and both connected. That's where you AND Bret have your portion of "being right". Stay save and have a great life.
I watched another YT channel explaining footage weighting rather than body position changing. Have been using this technique for last few months and off-road work as now so much easier. It reminds me of the technique used when skiing - moving weight from foot-to-foot brings about change in direction. I now feel way more stable cornering and negotiating off-road.
💯% agree with your advice in the video! Weighting the pegs properly makes all the difference in handling the bike. I especially liked your information about avoiding excessive knee bending. There is much more control of the bike when your legs hold it.
Hi Llel, appreciate for all your effort making these video series.
I think you may have mixed the concept of "peg pressure" and "centre of gravity". its long proven peg pressure doesnt steer the direction of bike travels, whether on tarmac or dirt. Imaging if what you saying are true, then it is expected direction of travel is changing consistently every time you pedel a push bike forward(i.e. changing peg pressure left & right continuously) where in fact it doesnt.
Video attached assist to explain the physics behind ua-cam.com/video/9cNmUNHSBac/v-deo.html
Rider and bike will each have centre of gravity and will combine together. We are maintaining combined center of the gravity above tyre contact patch as much as possible to minimize tangential slip.
An interesting subject and a lot of physics behind.
I agree, you want to get as much pressure to the outside (opposite side your turning to) of the contact patch and mostly to the front wheel. So weight outside peg slightly leaning to the front pushing outside knee into tank…...except when you are in thick sand or mud then dont lean forward.
@@BCD7seg1 that's exactly what the video is saying... he even put 2 arrows at 2:54 ... with inner foot off the peg to emphasis how important it is to weighting the outside 🤦♂
@Must Try Harder brett fanboy 🤣
You are wrong. Foot-peg pressure is a consequence not a cause. The lean angle of the bike is not equivalent to the lean angle of the bike-rider system. The bike and rider are two masses with centres of gravity which are connected but moveable relative to one another by four flexible couplings. It is the lean angle of the centre of gravity of the system that determines the cornering forces necessary to maintain balance at a given speed and radius of turn, not the lean angle of the bike alone. As the steering geometry of the bike is inherently stable the lean can only be initiated by counter steering input trough the handlebars, not the foot-pegs which have no influence over steering geometry. Changing the relative lean of the bike, not the system, by moving the weight of the rider around using the bars as very effective levers, which the pegs are not, will influence ones feeling of stability and control but the displacement of the riders centre of gravity relative to the bike, with a consequence of this being more weight on one foot, will not affect the lean angle of the system and therefore not cause the bike to turn. If you think you are causing the bike to turn by weighting the pegs you are unconsciously turning with some counter steering input to the bars wile moving your body around and you would be better off thinking about it in this way.
Except its entirely possible ride with hands not on the handlebars.
I understand what you are saying and agree with it. The mistake is in thinking the only way to create a countersteering effect is use the handlebars. At slow speed it is very easy to feel this.
The whole point of this video is to raise point that this is not absolute. The ideas that people bring from street riding, or the ideas that are taught that riders should ignore control inputs is the problem.
The only way you can weight a peg is by shifting your body position, so Brett is correct that body position is what matters. The peg weighting is simply a result of body position relative to bike position. You may think you are weighting a peg without shifting body position and initiating a turn, but all you are actually doing is pushing on the peg and reacting that force with your hands at the bars and thus adding steering input. There is some transient force transfer into the pegs that occurs due to the inertial effects of accelerating and decelerating your body mass when adjusting positions, but that is still reliant on adjusting your body position.
Foot peg pressure is extremely important in off road riding. In fact moving and placing your weight in different ways is the key to maintaining good control in all situations. A good comparison to how to weight your pegs is down hill skiing. What happens if you put your weight on the inside ski in a turn? You usually go down pretty quickly. The same can happen riding off road. You need that weight where you can make small adjustments to control the turn. While you can initiate a maneuver weighting the inside peg, control comes from weighting the outside peg. In short knowing where and how to move your weight and where to put pressure on the motorcycle is the key to maintaining good control and allowing good speed. Experience (practice) is the only way to learn this. It took me years of motocross racing to get this, but with a little practice anyone can improve their off road riding.
How's that Tenere working for you?
Recently I've been spend a lot of time practising static balancing on my bike in my garage whilst winter rages outside, I had a real break through concentrating on foot peg pressure instead of side to side upper body movement which is still useful but combined with foot peg pressure I'm now able to balance for extended periods of time, no doubt its every bit as important when the bike is moving
Boom. Good job Martin! It's super hard to static balance.
All you do is still moving your body mass out of center of mass to counter gravity.
It is just the feeling you have, you move bigger parts of your body, but less, the effect is the same and has nothing to do with the weight on the peg, only the placement of your body mass...
When you move a bigger part of your body mass, you will use more energy and you will be tired faster.
Practicing functional skills is a win. I might do that today if it keeps storming.
@@StoltHD When moving weight from one peg to another the centre of pressure is changing, for sure there has to be some upper body movement which will also move the centre of mass but moving the centre of pressure has a much greater effect by applying a moment that tends to rotate the bike in the desired direction
@@DirtRiderLife - Pressure on the pegs has nothing to do with controlling the bike...
You can repeat it a thousand times, it doesn't make it anymore the truth.
The only thing that controls the bike in this regard is movement of mass, if you twist your body and "push" your knee on the tank, you are still moving or trying to move the center of total mass. the twisted upper body has changed the plasement of that mass, the with the knee you use muscle energy to force replacement of the mass of the bike, and totally you have moved the total mass' center of gravity, how much depends on how much you actually move your body and how much energy you use to force the replacement of the bikes mass.
In addition, you will, in most cases when your twist your upper body also affect the contact you have with the handlebars of the motorcycle one way or the other
Very interesting and informative, seems like a combination of the centered body over the bike and foot peg pressure plus moving forward and backwards to compress or decompress the front wheel when needed. Basically know what is needed and when it is needed and doing it properly. All very difficult for a newbie.
A Reiman 1 has a great lesson about "relaxing the chassis"
The other thing is... you dont have to be standing up to achieve foot peg pressure. In the seated and squat position you can easily put 100lbs pressure on one peg or the other, keep your hips loose and let the bike move. No need to stand for 500kms of gravel road.
If anyone doubts the wisdom in this try and turn a trials bike without peg weighting. the little bugger will fight against you every inch of the way. Use the pegs and it flops round like a tired puppy. Quite a revelation for me.
I was also taught to use peg weighting for evasion maneuvers on a road bike, really helps to speed up the initial turn and helps massively bringing the bike back in the opposite direction. Another revelation.
Exactly Mark. It would seem from the comments that this wisdom is argued to the grave though 😂
Yep , i follow Bret and he's a good fella and a great instructor .. but i thought myself that the weight on the pegs sometimes matters a little just because i'm used to do that while riding on gravel with my motorbike ... Thank you for the video from Italy
Well said
Nope, not a little bit, in some cases it's the only way to steer...
@@milaventurasprod for sure.
Imagine a scenario where a motorcycle is moving at speed and its head stock is locked so the front wheel cannot turn. If a standing rider unweights the left foot peg what would you expect to happen?. The motorcycle will roll to the right. However since the steering is locked in the straight ahead position, there is no mechanism by which the motorcycle can actually track into a right hand corner so it will continue in a straight line, just tipped to the right. To achieve equilibrium, the rider would have to lean to the left in order to shift the centre of mass back directly over the tyre contact patch. Having done so, the bike will maintain a straight path, just tipped over to the right.
Now back in the real world, with a bike that does not have its steering locked straight ahead, when the rider unweights the left foot peg, the bike rolls to the right, and as is does so, the front wheel and contact geometry is weighted such that the front wheel flops slightly to the right. This creates the necessary geometry for the bike path to change from a straight line to a curved right hand turn. At this point, the rider can start to unweight the right foot peg, transferring his weight to the left or outside peg. If this was all the rider did, this would have the effect of making the bike roll back in the left direction. To counteract the leftwards roll, the rider has to put pressure on the handle bars to stop the handle bars from rotating left. He is effectively maintaining the slight rightwards turn in the bars which allows the bike to track in a right turn.
Consider also counter steering. At higher trail riding speeds, say 20mph plus, turning the bars left makes the bike roll to the right. At some point the rider has to turn the bars to the right (clock wise) to stop the bike continuing to roll too far to the right and achieve the correct geometry for a stable right hand tracking turn at the particular bike speed. However at very low speeds, say trials riding speeds below 10mph, the rules change. At these very slow speeds, turning the bars only (ignoring peg weighting) left will actually make the bike turn left. Counter steering has less effect at very low speeds. To demonstrate this, try riding at around 15mph then try turning the bars very slowly. You should find the bike will turn in the direction the wheel points. Then try the same motion but much quicker and with greater force. You should find this causes the bike to roll away from the turn, the wheel flops to the same direction as the bike is rolling. The rider has to intervene at the handle bars to stop the bike rolling too far and achieve a stable turn. The faster the bike velocity, the more reactive the bike is to counter steering and less reactive to wheel direction change. The human brain has to learn to make these adjustments i.e. that the bike needs different inputs at difference speeds and at some point transition from turning left to go left to turn right to initiate a left turn. So repetitive practice is needed to train the brains subconscious ‘muscle memory’.
I could be mistaken, tell me if I’m wrong.
I mean, kind off. When you use the pegs to move the bike quickly side to side, you get exactly the same thing happen as when you physically counter steering the bars, it's just coming from a different source.
The bars slightly going the wrong way always happens, you just don't use the bars to initiate it when riding in a standing position or generally at all off road. It's much more aggresive, require a lot of grip and generally lacks a lot of finesse.
You won't see off road bikes change direction or initiate lean rapidly like you do on tarmac. The grip doesn't exist, so you have to do the same thing in a different way.
Counter steering is not dependant on being over a certain speed it is effective at all speeds. All counter steering does is create an unbalanced force that leans the motorcycle.A motorcycle sits on two points on the ground. In straight line movement the centre of gravity of the motorcycle and rider is inline with these two points. By initiating a counter steer to the right, due to rake angle the front contact patch moves to the right ,causing the centre of gravity to be on the left, therefore the motorcycle will lean to the left and turn left. The same thing happens if you move your centre of mass to the left ,the motorcycle will turn left. The reason the motorcycle reacts faster to a counter steer input at speed is due to inertia, the forward movement of the motorcycle causes the offset front contact patch to rotate the wheel to the opposite side faster,thank"s to the caster angle.
@@capedolphin exactly. You good sir, get what's going on. Now if you could copy and paste this to the 50% of comments that don't I would greatly appreciate it.
🤣
Bret's a great rider and presenter. However, what you are saying is more in line with what another, ahem, notable ADV rider/instructor (Mr. Birch) teaches. I can't be accountable for all of the physics involved, but it's clear that the tools in the kit include counter steering, leaning and counter-weighting, and good use of the footpegs, with efficiency. I am 100% sure you're correct on that. In my experiences on the street, footpeg pressure takes on a little bit lower importance (at customary street speeds, with good traction). But in the dirt, in my experience, on any bike ranging from a mountain bike to large ADV, footpeg (or pedal, as the case may be) pressure seems to take on a larger (and crucial) importance.
Hi!
I'm a beginner in off-road. And all the videos I'm watching are quite confusing.
So, to my understanding:
1/ Very short turns (not a U-turn), quite slow pace (around 20-30 km/h) : pressure on outside peg (inside leg can be away from peg as a security guard), body weight outside turn, pushing the handlebar inside turn, sitting as much as possible on the front of bike. Position a bit like Supermotard ?
2/ Larger turns, faster pace: pressure on inside peg, standing on the bike. What position for the body ?
If physics was taught like that at school, I'd have taken a lot more notice...
Thank you, Professor Pavey.
Safe, happy travels 👍
well i hope you learnt sustenttion triangle.. because the base of thos triangle done by footpegs is ridiculously narrow compared to top triangle made by body mass center gravity ;) ;)
Video you were referencing for comparison: ua-cam.com/video/PPIss3OjMCM/v-deo.html
I don't recommend using the term pressure. It can be interpreted as literally pressing down on the pegs. What you're doing is shifting your weight to favor one peg or the other. You and Brett seem to be saying the same thing about adjusting your weight which results in a "sensation of pressure" on the pegs.
Peg weighting without moving your body to the right place is pointless/won't work... which seems to be Brett's point.
From what I can tell both of you are saying the same thing but using different words. But what do I know I'm just some rando on the internet.
I disagree. I often physically push down on the peg to drive more force through it and that's important.
For example, when exiting a corner, pressing hard on the outside peg will generate more grip. This is a well documented and accepted aspect of dirt bike riding technique.
@@BrakeMagazine I've earded this technique, but don't understand it. How can you "push" on the peg ? I mean you can't push more than your own weight. So for me it is possible to push more only if you are seated, in this case you can start loading more the pegs and releasing the weight on the seat. But once you are fully stand up I don't see how you can push... You need to lean on something. Maybe the handlebar ? (ossry for my english)
@@emile7614 I think you should try it on the bike. You can push because you have muscle but that is not important.
You have weight, so choose which peg it goes through and you have footpeg weighting. You do not need weight on the handlebars.
@@BrakeMagazine Interesting. Maybe I don't understand the distinction you're making between shifting shifting weight and pressing. Could you explain the difference?
@@PRodent there isn't one.
Yeah but can you seemlessly transition from a helmet to a flat cap?
Not yet. I'm am the Padawan for sure
for a long time I was trying to blindly follow Bret´s foot pegs weighing technique and I was still much slower in corners than some other riders. Two weeks ago I had a discussion about the foot pegs weighing and I was told that I am completely wrong. So thank you ! :)
Bret's advice is focused for beginners, especially those who have not yet developed an effective intuitive sense of balance and manipulation of the bike. A rider who does, should move on from these intentionally exaggerated techniques. Two [mental exercise] perspectives of the same undeniable truth of physics. The more perspectives you try, the better you will see the whole picture. Always a beginner's mind = open to new perspectives.
Exactly. It's like telling new street riders to "not use your brakes in a corner".
Once you are past the new rider stage, you start learning that trail braking is really helpful for street safety margins.
To be honest, I didn't fully understand between Bret's technique and yours: What is the difference exactly? If I take a sharp right curve, I lean my body to the left side, but the foot pessure is a little more on the inside peg. Than I change it, to have better action and gravity control for the next curve! Is THAT wrong? What's up with the "see-saw", I don't understand?! Can someone bring it to the point for me? Thanx, Henry
Same said to us a guy named Francesco Meoni (rip) during a lesson years ago. You don't ride with arms... you ride with feet. You arms can't hold 200kg over bikes... nor 100kg for hours. As a skier.. i can agree. Is like skiing
But if it is about footpeg weighting, rather than body position "weighting", you would steer the bike by lifting one leg off the footpeg, technically, all your weight would be on the opposite footpeg. The way I understand it is, the bike is affected when I move my body towards the inside/outside of the direction I'm trying to go.
That would only be like that +/- of course in case your center of mass would be perfectly alinged with the one foot of the peg.
Be putting pressure on the peg one is applying a counter momentum to the center of gravity of the bike that holds against the breakdown torque, so the forces that make your bike to want to fall over to the inside of the curve. Applying more pressure to the peg, or moving your body more to the outside increases that momentum, so you're therefore able to lean the bike even further or to pick the bike up, depending on whether you want to increase the lean angle or not.
It is great to see an expert explain and show the how too.
Shame I'm crap off road.
You are turning by counter steering and not by pressure on the pegs. Do not full yourself!
Block the handlebar in strait position with some weld and try to steer with your foot pegs pressure. And do not fool the people until you did it.
You are both using different words to argue the same point, and it is easy to prove. Stand with your feet 30cm/12 inches apart, or whatever the width of your footpegs. Now have someone watch you while you try to lift one foot without moving your upper body or hips from side to side - it's absolutely impossible. You can tense your muscle on one side so it feels like your pressing down, but you aren't lifting any weight off your other foot. You can do kind of a one legged jump to very briefly push down on one foot, but this is immediately followed by you pressing down on the other foot with the same force. You need to have someone watch you because it is easy to think you didn't shift when you really did. This is basic physics - if you are standing across the middle of a balanced see-saw, you can't move one side down without leaning.
You cannot weight the pegs without shifting your center of gravity. You cannot shift your center of gravity without weighting the pegs. They are the same action. This is not an argument about motorcycle riding technique, this is a semantic argument over preferred nomenclature.
This seems unfortunate to me. There was no need to lead with "Bret Tkacs was wrong," which distracts from the useful information you provide. And there was probably no reason for Bret to lead with "Peg Weighting Doesn't Matter," which is in a sense a rebuke of those who might prefer to teach that approach, which many here obviously find useful.
After watching both videos and reading many comments here I come down on the side that you and Bret are saying much the same in different ways. Rise from your chair and stand up on your feet as you normally do. Now lift one foot off the ground. To keep from falling your body and your weight shifts toward the foot that remains planted. So, to weight a peg you shift your body position and your weight.
The goal here is to teach novices like me how to turn a big adventure bike safely and with confidence in conditions of limited traction and variable terrain. Multiple ways of explaining that could be helpful as we each learn and gain understanding in different ways. I'd be more than happy to ride as well as either you or Bret. And no two successful riders approach it entirely the same. Ideally, we each end up finding what works for us after considering and trying alternative approaches. I thank you both for providing food for thought.
Perhaps you should consider reaching out to Bret to be sure you understood his points, and he yours, and to see whether there might be common ground here that could be shared in a more constructive way with viewers of both channels.
Mmmmm……..I think you’re actually confusing chalk with cheese. Both are useful when applied to what they were designed for, but aren’t the same thing at all.
If you want to turn left (on dirt/off road or at slow speeds to tighten a turn) you put weight on the right peg. Turning right is the opposite. This action is complemented by pushing the bars in the opposite direction. This then forces the bike to lean the opposite direction and you are then effectively a counterbalance the centre of the bike’s gravity when it’s leaning. I’m not sure a see-saw is a helpful analogy when it’s a simple matter of counterbalancing the bike laterally.
This is a bit like the old argument that standing on the footpegs raises or lowers the centre of gravity. If you stand rigid it surely will raise the centre of gravity but that is not the point in standing at all. Standing is to allow your arms and legs to become part of the suspension and also to give you more control and balance by isolating yourself from the bike.
Amen
Everything is crucial, not just foot-peg weight. I think separating riding into segments of technique leaves out the greater connectedness of riding. Watch Jett Lawrence or Chase Sexton, Toni Bou and you will see that there is no one thing making them great.
Nonetheless, we should strive to improve our riding at every turn, and studying technique is one key element.
The problem is when this platform get used to tear down people and state absolute truths as though it's coming from the mouth of GOD. Have you noticed how few top competitive pro riders discuss how to ride?
I agree with everything you said. Not here to tear anyone down. 😊
you know the part were you criticize bret for the bad tecnic and heel position? go to your own video "3 lessons to make you amazing at riding" and you will find yourself doing the same thing to shorten the turn the most you can...
that being said, i dont desagree with you i just you shouldnt do this kind of video, dont need need to deminish anyone to be good at what you do...
sorry for my english...
Hands above the handle bars? Compare that angle to the actual steering axis of the bike, how is that more efficient?
Turning through footpeg weighting? In low speed - yeah. Everything above walking speed is mostly done by steering impulse. You basically create a steering impulse by pressurising the foot peg. Counter steering is faster by far.
And how are bumps and shocks absorbed by your legs when you stand on the arch or heel even?
Genuine questions / remarks.
Ride until the bike is a part of your body. If you're thinking about what you're doing, well then you're doing it wrong. You dont need to turn riding into physics lessons.
the point being its all about counter weight not peg weight but. the peg is just the attachment point of your weight, you only got three options be natural aka center over the bike or you can be counter weighted aka on outside of bike aka opposite the lean... or you can be on the inside or toward the lean... when it comes down to it, this all depends on the traction available.
I don’t see any difference between using the pegs to move your weight from side to side and moving your weight from side to side resting on the pegs. 🤷♂️
Found this really interesting Llewelyn especially being a sportsman level rider, Rich T / Teamsnapper
Is it footpeg pressure or Center of gravity offset through the foot peg…. You body Center of gravity is offset… same one foot on the peg but your body is on the other side … same point of pressure but the body Center of gravity is off Center or counter weight?…
There is only one way to control a motorcycle, onroad or offroad, that is by input throug the handlebars. Everything else is just indirectly making the same steering input.
I just watched both videos and it seems like you guys are explaining two different variations of the same concept - weight transfer/counter weighting. You’re both largely doing the same thing - shifting your weight to make the bike turn, just explaining it differently with slight differences in technique.
Obviously you can’t counter weight without weighting a peg, that’s where you’re transferring the weight to, but I’d argue that the actual counter weighting comes from moving your mid section (hips), not just weighting the peg. If you stand on the outside peg around a slow corner and don’t shift your weight, you’ll just plop over 😅
Yeah, I'm going to listen to you over Bret any day. He's a good rider, but there is a difference in skills and techniques between Dakar veterans and general instructors.
Knowing how to ride is completely different than knowing how to explain how said technique works. Yes, he is a phenomenal rider, brett aswell; but i go with brett on this one based on the phisics on how motorcycles work.
@davidvelez6341 why? He got the stuff on ABS completely wrong. Bret is a good instructor, but too focused on BMWs. Techniques that work really well on the 1200s don't work on bikes without a telelever front and giant headers to lean against. His points in the peg weighting video are just incorrect. It's about leverage and how you use it.
@@MeerkatADV whatch a video form a channel called @veritasium. Its a physics channel. The video is called "most people dont know how bycicle work". Whatch that video and you will see why just weighting the pegs does not make a motorcycle turn.
Or the video about a bycicle with the handlebars reversed (when you turn the bars right the wheel goes left) from a channel called smerter every day (also a phisics channel) .
Watch that and tou will understand how motorcycles actually turn.
@@MeerkatADV focused on BMW? lmao
@KamikazeJoeNYC he's on a BMW for basically every one of his mototrek videos. He didn't start using other models until leaving them to do his own thing. Ironically around the same time he started giving questionable advice.
I think you've dramatically understated the effect of steering input during your demonstrations here. While street and dirt riding are quite different, the No BS bike (look it up if you are unfamiliar) makes it quite clear just how much impact you can have on turning with body weight. In short, not very damn much.
Everyone has a strong opinion on this because of perceptions they get while riding, but it takes some sophisticated science to extract steering from body input. If you had done your demonstration with your hands free of the bars I'd be more convinced.
I'll do it.
Hi Llewellyn!
At times I’m practicing riding trails with one hand, skidding through gravel turns and such. On the rare occasions when I succeed, I forget my one hand riding and only steer with pegs.
I would say that when I don’t upset the bike with a million contradictory inputs and simply do it all through the pegs, the bike seems the most satisfied 😃
Yup, i just posted about evasion maneuvers, we were eventually "encouraged" to do them with our left hand in the air. Bloody terrifying at 50kmh +. Out on the trails I often find myself steering with my feet, no conscious input through the bars.
How can you go slowly, say, around an uphill righthand corner without counterbalancing the bike? How can you counterbalance the bike without using the footpeg? Well, say, if you had no left leg (but you were very skilled) you could maybe still get enough body off to the left and press down a little on the handlebar some, but, either way, there has to be a vector of force acting through the ground which allows the bike to lean enough and without it falling over. Brilliant a rider as Bret is, he must be doing it and he doesn't teach circus tricks.
The Queen used to ride horses side saddle after all - think about it. But even she, with both legs to the right flank, must have worried a little as she approached an uphill right hander on loose gravel.
I mean, she was the queen. I reckon she was probably still doing that fun hand wave and drinking Gin at the same time. 😂
A graphics Kit form Brake magazine for that Black Tenere world raid would be nice...
Absolutely correct I rode ISDE for years and peg pressure is vital. I have found a other things he talks about is incorrect also . When I got my endorsement they teach things incorrectly also . Like putting all four fingers on levers for one.
And this was some of the basics from the ride training in class you do in Sweden to take your license..
Weighting the outside peg during a turn helps leverage the bike into the turf, especially helpful in low grip situations. Same holds true with Mtn Bikes, weight on the outside pedal and low really makes the bike dig in. Same with skiing, you weight the outside ski in turns. The more your bike weighs, the less of an effect the outside weighting will have, but it will always have some affect. I think what Brett was addressing was the whole “Center of gravity/mass” thing, looking at the bike and rider as a unit. When I test an off-road machine, one of the key things I look for is how well it responds to “foot steering”. In my book, the more a bike responds to left/right peg weighting, the more I like it.
This is basically true for any motorcycle, which if why I dislike Harleys, and most other cruisers!
Well anybody that tells you foot peg pressure don't matter is talking crap.
From a physics perspective (not including sliding or drifting to keep things simple) the "lean angle" is *always* the same value for a given speed and turn radius, at all speeds. It's the same angle for bikes, and snowboards and water skis and so forth. The angle itself is the difference between vertical and a line from the contact patches through the combined center of gravity of the bike + rider. If our ADV bike weighs say 500lbs.. the rider.. say 200, so the rider's shifting their weight only has a net effect of about 2/5ths. E.g. If the turn radius and speed dictates a net lean angle of 30 degrees, and the rider hangs off another 30 degrees their contribution to the total lean angle is only about 12 degrees (really rough math), and that's assuming the rider can hang *way* off the side applying leverage to the bike from a point near the contact patches, which they cannot. We ride in a position with fairly poor leverage on the bike, especially with both feet on the pegs.
Ultimately the rider's real effect on the net lean angle is minimal. The problem is, visually we see a rider leaning one way and bike the other and because the difference between them is large, we think the bike is leaning significantly more, usually demonstrated in a tight low speed turn that dictates a larger lean angle anyway. Don't believe me?
Set your bike up near a wall, (with a friend on the other side to help catch you) and then while standing on both pegs, lean your body toward the wall while leaning the bike the opposite direction as *far* as you can. At some point your body will be as far it can go without lifting a foot off the peg. Now measure the angle of the bike just before it tries to tip over toward your friend. I think you'll find the angle is quite small. Nothing about moving forward changes that relationship between your weight applied in a non-optimal location on the bike relative to the motorcycle's much greater weight.
The angle is small, you’re absolutely right, but it’s enough angle to have an effect on turn radius.
Well done, I use footpeg weighting all the time
I think his point is that it psychological if I recall. "Pressure" doesn't really change the "weighting." It's where you move your body. That changes the balance or "weighting." It's in your head. But if that helps you change your balance, then it's great.
54 years ago I surprised the DMV Inspector by performing a circle in one lane when he offered two😮. Didn't know I had been riding Trials for the previous two years.
Amen
Great clickbait.
Except no one is wrong.
Hilarious.
You need a flat cap 😉.
I've got one on order!
He's not bald.
Downhill MTB and skiing,heels down,soft knees and weight the outside leg
You're just wrong, physics on a bike just doesn't work that way. It's NOT a seesaw. You can't (really) steer with weighing left or right. It's time you visit the No BS bike at the California superbike school. Bret is completely right.
I'm not wrong. The No BS Superbike school is about STREET riding.
I think your technical points are valid and useful, and I also find that Bret's videos are quite good too - there are complementary points and also variations in technique.
What I honestly don't like about your video is the "negative title marketing" of starting with "Bret Tkacs was wrong" - (Bret has 146K subscribers, Brake Magazine has 89K, so it just seems petty to start with the intention of proving someone else wrong and capitalizing on Bret's brand.) It turns me off from wanting to subscribe to your content.
Okay. 👌
Also, one last thing all this talk about foot peg pressure? It's just weight distribution. doesn't matter if it's your arse, feet or even your head. And please for the love of god stop saying physics changes...
Oh and to add even more, if you can't explain in this short video, make it longer.
You're correct, it is weight distribution. The wording is just semantics.
I love mini-tip Monday. I often do what you were doing around the 3:00 minute mark in the video. Basically maneuvering the bike just by weighting the footpegs. I need to practice it more. Thanks for the video!
When I saw Brett's video, I knew he was not quite correct and I didn't think his body position and movement was proper. I proceeded to watch Sedlak Offroad school videos. Since he is a pro enduro racer, I presumed he knew what was correct. About a minute into your video, I knew that you were correct in your explanation. You were very diplomatic and polite in your correction.
Thanks. I'll check their videos out! 😊
You can’t weight the foot peg without shifting your body on tight turns
Voice of reason!!❤ well done to you son for being a free thinker 👍🏻
I thought the purpose of weighting the outside peg while there is some lean angle is to help apply a moment force driving the tires into the ground, so that small losses of traction and disconnections from the ground are corrected more quickly, providing better traction and (more importantly) predictability in off-road conditions.
It absolutely is and makes a big difference. It’s not the only reason but is a big part of it.
So, if you can manipulate counterbalace with one foot on the pegs or with two feet on the pegs. How does this demonstrate that pushing your weight into the peg is the major manipulating force? Isn't it more about where the rest of your body is? You can only be right if you don't literally mean "weighting the peg." More like moving your upper body in relation with the bike. Focusing on "pushing the pegs" is a mental exercise. In reality, there are many other influences happening. What are you doing with pressure on the bars? Concentrating on the pegs, you may ignore this. But it does not mean that it does not happen. BT demonstrates his point by actually pushing straight down on the peg, and very little happens. Look at your legs. Your body is bowing way out. Looks more like upper body movement to me.
Because 100kg on one foot is a lot of weight on a lever. The footage is a lever not in the middle of the bike.
I can move my body left and stand on the right peg. Still gonna make the bike lean right unless something else stops it. You can swing your upper body around but if the weight distribution in your feet doesn't change nothing else will.
I try my best not to ride with pressure on the bars. Most off-road people teach and try to ride that way. I agree, there are other things that input this and there are other way to control the bike but the main point of this video is highlight the fact that it matters. Your footpegs and what you do with them are supremely important. Not the only control, but a control and that shouldn't be ignored. :)
IF you wanna understand what I mean, go and try it. I have a video on a one handed drill or you can find a gentle slope and try riding standing up, without and hands on the bars. You can feel very quickly that if you'r not completely even with your footpeg pressure, the bike will not go straight. You'll also figure out that you can make the bike turn a lot using just the pegs. :)
nice click-bait :)
i guess you just supported Bret's point. how I read you both, you have to lean the bike and shift your center of balance to match speed and curve radius, and it does not allways align with the inside peg weighting.
however, these two videos do not address the front-back weight shifts related to acceleration or deceleration.
that is where you made a false assessment of the high heel "mistake", as it was rather preemptive forward leaning to accelerate out of the curve.
appreciate your effort and making people think, even by causing unnecessary controversy.
Lifting you heel to deal with acceleration is the wrong way round. Heels go down.
Heels up leads to knees forward and that doesn't work for balance or control. 😊
I think this is great information. I've been using using this technique a lot and I feel that I've improve on some of the more technical trails in my area.
Hope it helps 👌
This makes sense to me as I’ve found I feel much more planted weighting the outside peg. I also find myself going faster.
Man, I love this. I love that you called out Bret Tkacs. He's fantastic and his videos are fantastic, but there have been at least a few times when just didn't know all the answers and he chose to make the video anyway. That needs to be called out so that he can be better and so that riders won't be misled.
It doesn't mean we don't love you, Bret!
Exactly. 😊😊 I would want the same!
For me, the example that starts at 2:01 does not makes much sense as even with such small body shifts there is change is steering direction and at 2:12 it can be clearly seen that bike changes direction with very minimal counter steering applied. Secondly, Brett is doing slow 180 degree turn where he has the position you referenced, when you showcase this at 2:46 you have only one foot on the peg. The turn (which is not 180) at 1:47 is not a slow turn and it locks the rear. If you can, record your version of a turn similar to what Bret recorded, with both feet on pegs so I could see your position that would be great as I am not sold on your version yet.
I made a whole video about called standing u-turns. It's also not my version. It's the widely accepted as proper technique in MX, enduro and MTB. 😊
@@BrakeMagazine Just wanted to say that I tested what you said and indeed it works as you described it. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Is there a point where things like this can be over analyzed to death? There are a handful of content creators who are very good riders and seem to be very intelligent, but go into such detail sometimes that I just lose interest. Im not hating on them personally. They seem to be popular which is great. Im no professional rider but I can hold my own in about any situation I’ve encountered. I don’t want to think about every little detail of my body position at any given time. I’ve figured out what works for me and I just ride. I don’t need to understand the physics of what I’m doing to ride well and have fun.
Sure. it kinda depends on who you are and how you learn though. Some people learn best by doing but lost of people don't. It's a valid point though.