What BioWare did better than Larian
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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#baldursgate3 #dragonage #larianstudios #bioware
Dragon Age walked so Baldurs Gate 3 could run.
Dragon Age ran so BG3 could run faster
So Baldurs gate 2 crawled so that DAO could walk :D
December 21, 1998 was when balder's gate was first made. Now dragon age was November 3, 2009
@enyosnow1834 🤓 errm bg3 came out on august 3rd, 2023.
@@reptiliancow ermmm iam talking about how BG started before it
Fully agree - one of the things that I loved most about BG3 is the fact that it was the first game since Dragon Age and Mass Effect that triggered such an intense obsession - it was the first game in over a decade where I connected to the characters/world/story in the same way.
The best game I've played for quality of Banter is...
... Guardians of the Galaxy.
Not a huge fan of the actual gameplay loop, myself. But the things they got right they got righter than just about anyone.
Dragon Age exists because of BG1 and BG2 😎😎😎
Interesting video...
I'd say everything. BG3 is overhyped.
I think you're right. The final moments in ME3, where you can talk to all your companions before taking on the last mission is one of the most touching and beautiful moments in the game, while the same moment in BG3 fell flat. BG3 does so many things better than Bioware, but I think the original Mass Effect trilogy really understood that the companions were the heart of the game. Probably helps that you had 3 games to get to know most of them.
3 games and many years of anticipation! I doubt we will ever have a trilogy like that again, just too much financial risk.
I feel like Bioware stumbled SO bad on the ME3 ending. Even after all these years I'm not really sure whose fault it was. But yes, although the "Bioware Magic" (as the internal staff called it) was dying by the time ME3 came around, they nonetheless still had unparalleled talent for writing absolutely memorable characters that you could fall in love with. Romantically or otherwise. ;) This was shown so adeptly in the Citadel DLC, which felt like a proper farewell to all the characters (from old favourites from the first game right up to newer faces that only arrived in ME3).
I'm not here to judge Larian's actions or decisions, but I do feel that they are moving on from BG3 too quickly. They created an absolute marvel with BG3, and it's a game I will likely be playing for many more years to come. But yes, every developer has their strengths, and it's important to appreciate the good things they did even as we point out their mistakes/flaws and how they can improve.
@@Luality At risk of being "that guy," play ffxiv. Ten years of build up and anticipation. Absolutely amazing narrative.
I love bg3 but the ending legit felt rushed. That was also someone other EA veterans said about the Divinity games. They said the beginning is extremely well flushed out but the ending always suffers. *shrug*
The witcher might be the closest to it
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I played Dragon Age Origins last year and I have to say, the narrative of its 'tutorial level' was the best and most engaging I've ever seen in an RPG. It perfectly sets the tone for the rest of the game.
So true.
A lot of RPG struggles with the tutorial.
Most of the time they are too long (and become boring very quickly)
or they are so overwhelming and it's hard to care about it (or very hard to understand so they become almost pointless)
I burned myself out of Origins by playing through all the variations of the tutorial to see all the origins. And it was fantastic. So yes, full agree.
That's one of the things that make DAO above any other RPG for me, including BG3. How to forget the emotions I felt after being forced to abandon my parent's to their deaths (Cousland) or be horrendoulsy betrayed and left to my luck in the Deeproads by my brother (Aeducan). My f*cking feels!.
Dragon Age was the first RPG I got fully into the story.
KoTOR for me, but DA:O reignited my old LotR love of fantasy (seriously, all the popular kids my age started LARPing in the early/mid 2000s) . It also lead me to actually wanting to try a tabletop RPG which lead me to D&D 5e and getting very excited about BG3. I had never played the original BG games or even stuff like Neverwinter Nights. Became a BioWare fan just after those games with games like KoTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect and Dragon Age.
Original Fallout and Baldur's Gate were best for me. I myself was a bit of dissapointed with Dragon Age as it did not have multiplayer or editor. And it was so freaking easy game. Kotor 1 and 2 are for me best from that time period.
Then came Mass Effect and it was solid 10/10 until the ending of ME3. That was so horrible that it almost ruined the whole series for me. That why I havent even touched Andromeda at all.
BG3 was so freaking good. There were so many memories from the good old BG1/2. Even music has some inspiration from the originals so it was 10/10 for me. All tho part 3 was a bit a mess but there were still so many good moments. Also BG3 reminded me how much I love turn-based games. IMHO Final Fantasy VII remake would have been so much more better (for me) if they would have stuck with the turns.
Bethesda games have been a joke for me since Oblivion. They hardly have any "RPG" on it and game is totally aimed for the masses.
Mass Effect and the next one was Dragon Age :)
Same, never feel the same until Mass Effect in sf style then BG3 arrived !
The only comparisson I would make is how Larian had a clear idea of what BG3 was suposed to be compared to what BioWare ever had with Dragon Age. BioWare was definetly figuring it out as they went, they were in fact doing a new thing, while Larian was building on what they had learned from the Divinity games.
I agree, but I feel like Bioware had a very clear idea about the world of Dragon Age when they made it! It feels very thought through and consistent. I worry what will happen with that, now that all the writers and senior developers are gone. ☹
Bioware did BG1, BG2 and Neverwinter Nights before DAO, they knew exactly what they were doing, what are you on about
@@motan7864 That's the thing though, DA was meant to be a departure from those titles. At one point in development it looked more like an action game than a party based rpg, in the end they stuck a bit closer to that format, but you can see in the following games that they are slowly making it more like an action rpg than a tactical one, I would say DA: Inquisition was probably the one they had the most clear vision for, although it wasn't fully realized due to technical issues, mainly XBox 360 support and fighting the Frostbite 3 engine, DA 2 was a mess because of corporate. Larian games are a really a modern iteration from the OG BG and Neverwinter, while BioWare took their IPs into another genre.
@@probablythedm1669 It may feel like, it sure had a lot of depth for a first entry in the IP, but there were also some retcons and abandoned threads later on, also, the fact that THEDAS just means "The Dragon Age Setting", just a placeholder for the world name that they just gave up on replacing, says otherwise ahahaha
@@jonnyso1 Bioware ceased to exist since they were bought by EA. Afterwards it's just a souless EA brand with all the top management and writers leaving the company. No wonder they put out trash games like DA2 DAI and Andromeda since then. Blame it on EA.
Playing BG3 make me want to go back and play Dragon Age. And Mass Effect, Divinity of Sin I & 2, and several others. It has reignited my love of RPGs. I have not played much other than Skyrim for several years. BG3 got me out of that rut.
BioWare >was< (they started to become worse with DA:I and even worse with ME: Andromeda) definitely better at story telling than Larian is. But Larian is getting better with every game, and with the hype they got from BG3, they'll probably also have the chance to attract top notch writers.
DA:I is a great game.
I think the writers of BG3 are honestly amazing, that they could pull off so many alternative paths to their story and all of them are cool it takes a whole new level of skill. DA:I has an awful pacing problem and if you could condense the game to 30% of its size it would probably be a much higher regarded game.
Bioware used to be a guaranteed GOTY deliverer. but their fall from grace shows no one is beyond the fall. a reminder to stay wary
I honestly think that BG3 and Larian already has top notch writers. Even in DOS2 they had good writers working on the game, especially on companions. DOS1 tho is not a very well written game story and NPCs wise. You have to understand, that people like David Gaider are unique writers, absolutely singular. I think Adam Smith did a stellar job as a Lead Writer for BG3.
@@TheMeta141 they became bad only because EA bought them. They changed the whole top management of the company, and forced sh*tty projects. As a result most top writers and managers left the company.
The random dialogue/banter that would happen between Aveline and Isabela in DA2 were some of my favorite of any game.
It was also really sweet to see how their relationship grew over time. They were catfighting SO much during Act 1, but by the time Act 3 rolls around it's like "Why didn't you come to my Feastday party? I know you got the invitation." "Oh, I thought it must have been a mistake. Surely you wouldn't want ME at your Feastday party." "Isabella, do I EVER make mistakes like that?"
I was legit waiting for as many of those as I walked through Baldur's Gate lower city, and was constantly switching companions in & out cause it felt so random with some comps getting more banter and some practically zero.
Overall speaking, the companions there feel more balanced in terms of content, while the difference in content between favorites & regulars in BG3 is MASSIVE. SH prolly has more than Wyll & Karlach put together.
@@MgMast3r yes, if you compare it with any DA game, BG3 party banter was lacking badly, though we have some good ones, but they're extremely few.
Dragon Age: Origins is one of maybe 3 games that I 100%-ed-Every origin, every ending and every quest finished. Absolutely worth the time and money.
One thing I cant help but to compare are characters in both games, which are somewhat similar. At least in demeanor and their background.
I appreciate you bringing this to the fore after your recent DA:O stream. I watched for an hour while I was free and a lot of the chat messages were people arguing whether BG3 or DA:O were the better game and making wild comparisons for games made almost fifteen years apart. Thank you for giving credit to two amazing games where credit is due.
It sucks that we couldn't get Dragon Age Origins remastered for modern hardware this game was absolutely a gem of a title ever made.I bought the base game and the ultimate edition.
Although i still own the ultimate edition on steam the game just wont work sadly because of EA's negligence to update their game to work on windows 10/11
DAO still works on modern platforms, you just gotta get the 4GB patch and install it to run the game properly. That actually goes for a lot of pre win 10/11 games, heck even on vista you had to install it or the game would lag, crash often etc. Even with 4GB patch you gotta restart DAO about every 4-5 hours due to memory leaks.
Edit: I agree it is sad that you have to go out of your way to research on how to make DAO work, it indeed would be much easier if EA just made something like the 4GB patch applied to DAO by default. Alas.
It's a tricky one. There's only so much you can do with a remaster to patch up the graphics. Look at Mass Effect - at the end of the day, the jump in quality was nice but actually pretty small.
To properly do the game justice would require a full remake. But there are moments in the game that have... not aged terribly well. Which would leave Bioware with an issue - update the game and 'fix' the problematic bits and get called out for changing stuff or keep it exactly as it is and get called out for (re)releasing a game with content that doesn't really fly in this day and age. No easy answer.
DA: Origins was so captivating back then. My brother who was not a gamer (besides playing FIFA with friends) just stayed with me the whole game and was begging me not to play without him.
i have to agree, BioWare banter is great
0:20 - Me, for 5 years after playing Mass Effect 2 "Why do so many games suck?" Because I was comparing them all to Mass Effect lol. I wanted to feel those same feelings about a game again.
The original Baldur's Gate is what started Bioware, so Dragon Age exists because of Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 3 exists because of Dragon Age.
I'm 12 seconds in. Just wanted to say Dragon Age is a Goat. Both are great. Played Dragon age in College. Made me sane in-between work, girlfriend, kids, bs. The others were OK. Origins was amazing. My favorite game of all time is Mass Effect.
Respect for bringing awareness to this, grew up on golden age bioware, Baldurs gate 3 was amazing and it felt super nostalgic all of it. And kinda pissed me off when certain people just blatantly said it was better than Bioware. Dragon age origins was the game that set the new standard for rpgs back then. I still replay dragon age and mass effect till this day and have a blast everytime, im super excited for dragon age dreadwolf.
I agree with this. Us old gamers who grew up from the Atari/Calico age has lived with the rise and fall of great studios. Black Isle/Interplay/Bioware/Bethesda (when it was smaller)/Westwood Studios/Obsidian etc. We've seen the dynamic and lived through the consequences. There is decidedly different feel between Fallout 1/2 and the rest of the games when another studio took over as Black Isle/Interplay fell apart. Which is why when those key devs went and formed Obsidian and gave us Fallout New Vegas, fans were overjoyed and New Vegas brought back a lot of the luster that Bethesda lost in Fallout 3.
I think many need of us need to remember that the younger generations did not have these experiences and grew up with a different set of exposure and expectations. For example, Dark Souls. When it came out, it was widely heralded as the hardest game out there because it didn't let you save for long periods and I was like, "They never have played Ghouls and Ghosts or Battletoads or TMNT or Ninja Gaiden or Altered Beast or any of those old school side scrollers that only gave you a limited amount of continues to get through the ENTIRE game. We spent hours perfecting a mid air jump in Ninja Gaiden (those who know, know) to get to the next level and each time we had to work our way back up to the exact spot. However, for the younger generation, the companies began to makes games less challenging for a more mass market appeal, and they have been exposed to "save anywhere" mechanics and chapter skipping, so it makes sense that a game like Dark Souls to them is the "hardest" they ever played.
& now BioWare is a dying company
DAO was absolutely GOATed game in its time, and yes characters were big part of that. Morrigan was so well portrayed and interresting char for example...
And yes, Mass effect had the BEST characters in any game, period. If anybody even tries to argue, they had Garrus, Vrex, Tali, Legion and Mordin, and I dont need to say anything else, because that would be enough. Just ending of Mordins arc was so heartbreaking that I feel the pain even after all these years. What a game.
I agree with your statement entirely, BG3 couldn't have possibly existed without Dragon Age origin, as a matter of fact when I described to Larian as a Hardcore Baldur's Gate fan what kind of gameplay experience I expecting from Baldur's Gate I compared it to Dragon age in feedback.
Dragon age origins is still my favorite game of all time and i will die on this hill
It's still in my top 6 eva.
agree!❤
I always had a better sense of closure in those Bioware games, when in BG3 I not only felt sad because it ended, but for how it ended. And this is something that I had from Larian previously too, DOS2, etc
I also realized this recently after replaying ME Legendary Edition and giving Andromeda another chance.
BG3 is a fantastic game and while I think your relationship with the companions is great, there isn't really a lot of work in terms of relationships between the companions themselves apart from a bit of banter here and there which feels like a bit of a missed opportunity.
Sure, ME had a whole trilogy of games to build these relationships and characters but even Andromeda, with all of its faults, does manage to build not just your relationships with your companions but the bonds between the characters as well by giving them a lot of shared discussions... culminating with the great movie night scene.
BG3 had room to do this too, the relationship between Wyll and Karlach could have been explored further, Laezel and Shadowheart could have been expanded upon, hell when Laezel goes to Astarion if you deny her, they could have pushed that to 11 and had them actually develop a romance. Alas, it is what it is...
Wynne lecturing you about treating Liliana right and not breaking her heart while you walk around Ferelden was priceless. I agree, the banter in BG3 isn't as good.
DAO is still in my top 5 games :) but DAO would not excist without BG2.
i loved the choices you'd have to make in DAO regarding the demons. you know, letting a demon live in exchange for demon sex is peak gameplay.
1 of the ways Larian truly dropped the ball was with romance rules. you can be any gender and any species and romance anyone. which makes being friends hard because everyone thinks you're horny for them. i stumbled into romance talks with Wyll and Gale just trying to be a friend to them. really friggin awkward trying to be nice and them making moves on me, it's also really easy to miss dialogue in the game because if you progress too far it skips but if you long rest to get those scenes you risk a quest progressing, forcing you to choose between companion interactions or people staying alive.
i wish walking banter was more prominent and less buggy (quite a few times a character's lines are silent)
Halsin says once you go Furry you neve go back.
The silent companions bug was fixed, it was only one patch where it was happening regularly.
Also what you said about quests messing up with too much rest, that's not true. You can rest as much as you want and no quests will fail. There are no quest or world timers like other CRPGs, you are imagining that but its been proven thats not how BG3 works. You can even rest for free with partial rests, to make sure you are caught up on camp events/dialogue.
There are less than 5 instances in the entire game where its very obvious that an active emergency is happening. And yes, if you rest while that emergency happens it has negative consequences. If you come across people dying in fire or a poison chamber, and decide that's the time to rest, it would be dumb if the NPCs were alive the next day. But besides those very specific events, you can rest as much as you want whenever.
@@yeahr1ghty yes there are, there are absolutely timed quests and world events. i know because i've encountered them.
Old Bioware made fantastic games. New Bioware is shit
True about the companions. In DA games I knew not only who the characters were, but, crucially, what they thought of each other too! Really helped to make them feel fleshed out and individuals who exist separate from my character.
Yes, we're all worried how DA4 is going to turn out and yes, Bioware does seem to have been losing its magic over the last 10 years. But DA:O will always have a special place in my heart. Janky graphics and the occasional 'edgelord moment' aside, I say it still holds up even now.
Very well said! One has to remember that Dragon Age Origins was massively successful when it was released and opened the doors for many new fantasy RPGs like Baldur’s Gate. While not totally open world in design, the story, characters and relationships you could build with your companions were truly outstanding. You never knew who you would meet across the game world and once you did you just wanted to learn more about each character and build your relationship with them. In short, you CARED for the companions you made and bothered to learn about. You went into battle with them and wanted them to all survive. It was the part of Dragon Age that I really appreciated. If they made the dialogue choices just a little more complex, so that choices have greater consequences, and expanded the ‘sandbox’ world design just a little wider, then they have a near perfect game experience to share. With Dragon Age : Dreadwolf coming soon, I hope they continue the series in the same vein. Making comparisons between games from different generations is ultimately fruitless. If you enjoyed a game then and enjoyed a new game now, then that is all that matters. Excellent defence of a wonderful game, Lua. Dragon Age remains a shining star.
Sadly that bioware is dead and gone, most of the people aren't there that made the great games like dragon age and mass effect not to mention they're under EA so there's also that
Baldur’s Gate 1 & 2 walked so Dragon Age could run. Dragon Age ran so BG3 could fly.
Best RPGs of all time.
The moment I knew I was going to love BG3 was the moment when I realized that it made me feel the same way DAO made me feel 15 years earlier. That's a rare experience, to have something that feels both new and nostalgic at the same time.
I could slice and dice and compare them all day long, but that kind of comparison is a bit besides the point. They both excel at creating a particular vibe and stirring a particular form of joy, for me. They're both great.
I think whats important to remember is that BG3 had 9 companions with three hours of banter while DAI had 9 as well it had five hours of banter. I think Bioware is just better at their companions than Larian.
BG 1-2 did all this before dragons age 1. Planet scape i mean PC RPGs were a thing in the 90's.
Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 are still great with all the banter in the group and the whole story. It's just that D&D always had really terrible mechanics. The old Bioware stuff is still worth playing - even DA:O
Too bad they got absorbed and disseminated into Electronic Arts. Corporate Ceremorphosis.
dragon age > bg3 because DA has dwarves companions 🤪
Don't get me wrong I adore bg3, but the Dragon age series were my gateway drug to fantasy games
Let's keep with this constructive criticisim so that Larian improves even more and give us another Masterpiece. Im sure they already know this and probably without having to follow 5e in the next game they will improve it but DOS combat and character progression felt better than BG3. Can't wait for next game with a better combat and the level of cinematics and narrative of BG3.
Also I think they should make the companions interact more with each other, including the cinematics, been together and so on.
You are the best Lua! Cheers from Spain.
DA:O banter - 100%, DA2 - yes, 100%, DA:I - nope, abysmall banter tbh, especially given how it triggered in open world and people still using mod for more banter (and it isn't that deep either)
ME banter (if specifically banter) - yeah... no, ME3 companions interacting with each other outside of the player, speaking over the comms on the Normandy, even having relationship outside of the player interactivity, is a perfection. I wish Bg3 had interactions between companions that aren't tied to main player character like ME3.
People mentioning romances I think kind of forget the shallow gifts system. But overall, outside of gifts, I would say romances are on par. Like, ME had it shortcomings, especially if we take it as a trilogy, which it is. DA:O was great tho, but that's just a single gem and honestly 1 of 6 games in trilogies. It is probably the best out of all, BG3 included, that did romance better. DA2 was heavily criticized for its romance system, especially with dialogue wheel having specific option.
Edit: I think, as far as Internet literacy goes, people will take it as "BG3 companions bad/ Bioware good". But that's ok, that's just Internet working around complex thoughts.
Cómo decimos en España, "verdades como puños"
Lady Luality; I have not yet watched the video...but I could guess; the writing. Larian's writing is at best serviceable, BW's writing back in the day was exceptional at times.
Dragon Age: Origins will always hold a special place in my heart. I'll forever miss the golden age of Bioware, but I'm glad that Larian has taken up the mantle for making high quality huge rpgs like BG3.
Baldur's Gate 3 is a bigger love letter to Dragon Age than it is to Baldur's Gate.
At the end of the day all those games share the same DNA. BioWare paved the way. They set so many standards within the genre. Their legacy lives on through Larian.
I just wanted to say i love how real you are when you talk. My girl says I like "crass" women but I think I just like authenticity.
i love dragon age origins the magic system is soooo good.
Dragon Age Origins was so good
Bioware made Baldur's Gate before Dragon Age. Almost like a spiritual successor. I totally see where the comparison is warranted but I agree that it's not fair to compare a 15 year old game to a 1 year old game.
I agree 100%, I loved DAO and I love BG3 both games are my favorites of alle time.
People forget that Bioware made the first 2 Baldur's Gate games. Personally i loved both games. And I think if you liked BG3 you'll probably like Dragon Age as well.
Comparing BG3 (2024) to DAO (2009) is like comparing DAO to Elder Scrolls: Arena, Ultima VIII: Pagan, or Menzoberranzan, all of which came out in 1994.
DA:O was an all-time great. BG3 is it’s spiritual successor. DA2 and DA:I were fine games but BG3 was what a lot of Origin fans were expecting/waiting for.
Dragon Age Origins actually did a lot of things better than BG3: Controls, movement, camera, combat flow, in particular, the auto-system for the companions. Also, how the origin characters are introduced with their own unique tutorial quest. The latter gets you much more immersed in the world than the rough start with no explanation in BG3.
I disagree completly. Bioware DID better companions then. Not anymore. I mean, someone remebers the name of ANYONE in Mass Effect Andromeda? Yeah. Bioware isn't capable of doing RPGs anymore. I hope Dreadwolf proves me wrong. But I know it won't.
Well, not quite.
Dragon Age: Origins 2009
Baldur's Gate 1 1998
Baldur's Gate: Shadows of Amn 2000
All 3 of these games were made by Bioware.
Bioware wasn't first though. If you had to trace it all the way back it would be Ultima 1 in 1981 that could be considered the first top down rpg style game. Bioware did the same thing as Larian. They learned a lot from the first 2 games and brought that into DA:O.
I don't agree that DAO was as good as BG3. I would argue that as far as story and character writing Mass Effect 1&2 are better than BG3 for companion writing.
Not just Dragon Age. Baldur's Gate 1&2, Neverwinter Nights, Star Wars: KotOR, Mass Effect. The entire genre that Larian built itself upon wouldn't have existed without Bioware. The fact that Bioware has been destroyed by EA now doesn't change what it achieved.
I think more appropriately DOS2 truly Larian biggest learning lessons for BG3. DAO will always be one of the best Fantasy RPG, but the old Bioware has truly gone. I have zero hope for DA4 when they abandoned CRPG & go full action rpg, I have zero hope for new ME when they ruined MEA & Anthem.
I just realized, what made Baldur's Gate IS Baldur's Gate. It's a DnD carried title. It basically made itself. I just realized that. And DA:O wouldn't exists if it wasn't for Baldur's Gate. Cause the devs of BG1&2 are the devs of DA:O. Just like what Larian is trying to do now (something new), DA:O was a passion project of Bioware's own making. You could say that the roots of Dragon Age were because of people's exposure to Baldur's Gate. So I hope what happens with Larian is the same thing that happens with Bioware since they're basically doing the same thing Bioware did... making their own thing.
I am ANGRY at this franchise. BG3 Is everything that dragon age should have aspired for. Instead they made DA2 who basically mixed in the trend of action games instead of pushing on the rpg side.
Then Came DA3
I remember actually liking the world, but being EXTREMELY disappointed in the combat system. It's just randomly spam attack in real time. It sucks.
Bioware had a diamond in the rough and turned into coal 😢
don't know about Mass Effect companions, but I definitely enjoyed DA:O companions more that BG3's. That said, they're all awesome.
*Stop comparing!*
*Would Dragon age be Dragon age if some geeks did not make M.U.D ?*
(Those of you old enough to remember MUD ?)
Would MUD of existed if not for Gary?
And would Gary of been inspired if not for the literary masterpiece of Bilbo and Frodo's Journeys?
Honestly though, Dragon Age 2 is one of my favorite older RPGs, and I did spend most of my first playthrough of BG3 comparing the two, but I'm a good way.
Cause when you come from a background of playing a lot of fantasy RPG games like Dragon Age, Elder Scrolls, Kingdoms of Amalur, and etc, you're able to appreciate how much these older games did for the newer ones.
I spent plenty of BG3 noticing things that were done the same as Dragon Age. And I loved them. BG3 did them better. But as Luality said, there's a massive time gap where everything got better.
I have no opinion on the comparison of the 2 games.
I do have an opinion on Bioware and Larian.
Looking at the last 2 games of Bioware, compared to the last 2 games of Larian, which company, do you think is more honest about their games and who stands behind the quality of their games?
Bioware today, is NOT the Bioware of old. Bioware has been gutted of it's best talent.
I expect nothing of value to come out of Bioware.
Why? Because actions are what we judge companies by.
Bioware never finished Andromeda. We never got DLC explaining the missing races. "My face hurts", feel free to inter your own childish Andromeda quotes here " ".
Anthem. Bioware constantly bragged about how amazing that cow cake Anthem was. And man, did they lie.
So are we to believe Bioware? Simply because way back 15 years ago they made a good game?
If!!! Long shot if! Bioware makes a good game, a 6/10 game, I'll be happy. I'll wait 3 months to let people test the game, then I'll buy it on sale.
Larian, I just may buy their next game on day one.
As for the comparison of the last Dragonage game and BG3, You're so very right. Cheers
Tbh i'm just gonna say. I never played the Mass Effect 1 and 2. I was, for some reason. Some total nutcase who decided to play Mass Effect 3 with VERY LITTLE CONTEXT of the previous 2 games. It is still one of my favorite memories and I still remember that game fondly. It was really good. So much better than people give it credit for. I constantly think of and remember the relationships my shepard had in that game. I didn't even experience the 2 other games of these characters (dunno how many of them were there since the beginning, but it's clear some of them were.), and they still stay with me. From the finale to the mainline series no less.
Like listen guys, I really loved bg3. Bg3 was great.
I can tell you right now i'm gonna remember Gale and Astarion fondly, and will definitely remember Karlach was cool. But BioWare absolutely crushes it. It's not only their bread and butter, but they grew and sowed the damn wheat from the fields too.
Thanks to BG1-2 is why BG3 exists :D. Tbh BG1-2 even had a real time turn mode - just a real time fight timer that pauses the game :D. BG2 was closer in most aspects to BG3 then Dragon Age origins :).
Yes old Biower did had better companions (and more climatic less twitter based language in games). BG2 was more fantasy/medieval language/terms. BG2 also had the best companions i ever seen like Korgan, Viconia, Minsk (in my language Minsk was more climatic voice over then in english version).
One thing that DA Origins had that was epic was combining spells into a outcome like you could created a winter storm (or fire storm dont remember). Both games are different with different purpose to be achieved, and made in different times.
Coming from DA to BG3… what i found somewhat lacking (but not missing) was… banter. We had it, yes, but as I’ve said many times in larian’s feedback bracket on discord; it’s… the timing is not great (long pauses, or doesnt play at all), the content is… not too natural. I cannot possibly point out the exact reason, maybe the VAs of inquisition had joined recording sessions instead of separate or just more lighthearted jabs when it came to writing or more active interaction with the world (implementation)… truly don’t know what exactly makes BG3s banter feel less >real
I was immediately drawn to BG3 and it's characters but still felt like DA/ME had better companions. I've not even had a complete playthrough of BG3 and I'm already making playthroughs killing off companions just to see how things change, I can' t bring myself to do that to the characters in old Bioware games.
Dragon Age wasn't even an idea when we already had 2 amazing Baldur's Gate cRPGs :) I appreciate a lot of you weren't born yet back then.
There are many things I still like more in DA and also many reasons why BG3 did not top it. I am okay with comparing, but people should do it with the understanding that the last DA game is celebrating it's first decade this year. (That is right DA:I turnes 10 years old folks) Stuff changesall the time and people and demands change. Just look at what entertainment looked like in the 50s or 30s. Many would say cringe because the demand was different.
I have mixed feelings about DA:D still of course because on how the development went, but I still love the francise. The magic system has more restrictions, the world is not as free spirited and today I would say DA is when BG3 and Game of Thrones before it was bad) had a baby. For me it is the perfect middleground between the harsh reality of medival and also wonderful fantasy.
I never Understood the Hype for DA:O...in comparison Mass Effect was the way better Experience
BioWare made 1st and 2nd Baldurs Gate. They started everything - Mass Effect and Dragon Age - now other games can be here, entertain us because of those games. No game will be the same, and each of them takes inspiration from each other. BioWare games always take a hold of my heart, make me cry and keep coming back for more.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Baldurs Gate 3, but I need to take breaks from it.... where I can play Mass Effect over and over.
The real question is.... how the fuck did you get the game to even work? My Steam copy has been busted for fkn years, won't even start up. (Yes I looked up many solutions, to no avail.)
Dragon Age Inquisition and BG3 are two of my favorite games of all time! I will argue that Baldur's Gate has far more variety, but it's like comparing apples to oranges, and I like both equally
Dragon Age: Origin was a masterpiece, I was so disapointed with both sequels. Bioware, you smelt the iron that forge RPGs we know today.
it's hard to beat david gaider (dragon age) and drew karpyshyn (mass effect) in characters and writing. dragon age was so good to me cause i read the stolen throne before playing it. the betrayal hit SO MUCH HARDER back then. same with mass effect and it's books too. larian is amazing. but i'll still play anything david gaider and karpyshyn are attached to... even if it was a musical lol. stray gods was a good story too if you want another david gaider game. but it's a musical.
Never thought about this at all, but now that she’s pointed it out I think I agree, the companion banter in dragon age origins and even inquisition was better, I can without thinking too much remember a full conversation two companions had from dragon age and I can’t remember any from BG3 and I played BG3 like a few days ago haven’t played dragon age in years. So yeah I definitely agree there
Totally agree
The only way you could compare Baldur's gate 3 is if someone made another interpretation of bg3, then you could directly compare the two. Dragon age, and mass effect are some of the greatest games ever made, but you can't compare them. Each game is unique in its own regards(unless its openly just a clone of something) and you can't directly compare it to anything else. You can always look at over-arcing ideas like influencing Alistar in Dragon age, and influencing Shadowheart in bg3, and see how each team runs with the idea itself. Love both games but we don't need to relentlessly compare everything that comes out to something else.
i had way more fun playing Dragon Age Origins than Baldur's Gate 3 and, to me, it is the better game. Dragon Age 2 is just bad, Dragon Age Inquisition is... different but not that good either.
With regards to Mass Effect, absolutely. Dragon Age, though? Origins companions completely failed to grab me. Every single one annoyed the hell outta me to the point that to this day I have yet to finish the game.
Dragon Age 2 had some great companions. But then again, it had everything else that DA2 came with...
Completely agree with you. I’ve always thought something was missing from bg3, always landing on the companions banter and interactions with each other and funny enough, I always compared it to dragon age and mass effect. Not saying it’s bad in bg3, it’s great, but overall, it feels like they missed some opportunities. Like, for example, seeing the bg3 cast play dnd, the way they act with each there is how I wish they eventually start to talk to one another mid way beyond in the game, hell, in camp, they rarely even speak to one another another, even though they are in camp? lol
Good thing I don't need to compare everything to BG3 because I don't like BG3. 🗿
Unpopulre opinion under this video but Dragon Age while was a great game not really had any relationship with BG3. The two original BG even darn Icenwind Dale and Neverwinter Nights had more common things with BG3 than Dragon Age. What Larians game built upon is the tabletop + the original Baldurs Gate series and their own system what based on the nothing is off limit use your fantasy, which already bring the game closer to the original tabletop than the original BG ever will.
It was not flawless and I do agree Biovare has better NPC's. Larian put too much in their NPC's as each of them could be the main character and a side character too and because of them eacho of them should have an epic backstory could end in multiple way. It does sounds good on paper but its incredible amount of work will only let you deal with a handful of them and there is no room for a humble knight or a chirpy bard with simple sidequests... they all really busy and each like in their own game what could feel a little bit overwhelming... also I think Larian do the Sex the worst. They went from the horny teenager telling made up sex to a straight hardcore porn in the last iteration where even the action starter is like come from a porn movie that simple unbelievable and stupid.
When people compare bg3 to Dragon Age, I think they mean to compare old bioware vs new bioware. Has nothing to do with bg3, it's just the smooth brains lamenting that dreadwolf will probably be a mess because there has never been a definitive "best" dragon age since the first.
Lady do you know Bioware made bg 1/2 though?
😂
think you missin a crucial piece here lol
I totally agree. Peak Bioware writing, especially around companions, is just a bit better than Larian's writing. But its a minor quibble. Larian's stuff is great. The more great games we can get . . . from any developer . . . the better for all of us!
Another fact to consider is that, in the ME saga we had 3 games to know our companions, so when you see Tali getting her mask off or Mordin sacrificing himself so the Krogans can keep reproducing. Its heartbreaking. Dont get me wrong, I do loved BG3 but I think that nostalgia and having more games that continues the storylines of our companions hits harder and make it feel like Bioware did a better job. Nonetheless both are great companies
Dragon Age Origins is an amazing game. I consider it the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 2, so it's funny that people are comparing it to Baldur's Gate 3.
You're right, the companions and banter in the Mass Effect and Dragon Age Trilogy are far better!
Why this is even a thing confuses me. Before we had Dragon Age we had Ultima. Before we had consoles we used paper.
There is value to what came before as this is only evolution and progression. People are honestly missing what matters, and that is to enjoy good games for what they are.
This is why people do return to older games.
What was actually worth noting for Larian is that AAA development started to stagnate that development by giving out empty husks of collectibles and repetition. Corporate greed and mismanagement killed studios like Bioware and scattered that talent that created those IPs.
Dragon age wouldn't be Dragon age without Baldur's gate. Bioware made BG1 and 2 years before dragon age and mass effect.
Totally agree. Not that Larian's banter is "bad" or lacking, BG3 has some BRILLIANT banter... but the Bioware games somehow managed to time the banter better. It was showcased rather than being miss-able. Gods, I'm not sure I'm articulating it well.
When the Mass Effect companions has dialogue, there was either a world marker you could click, or they were in a lift so there was no interruption, or the volume was slightly louder than the ambient music, so your ear was immediately drawn to the conversation going on around your character.
Similarly, with Dragon Age, the voices were pitched in such a way the conversation felt like... like when you're in a party and a conversation is just a little too loud to be private. It felt like you "overheard" the banter, rather than hearing it - so you automatically *wanted* to stop and listen to what they were saying. Also, the conversations carried on from the last banter lines a lot of the time, so there was extra interest in catching what they said.
And I still get choked up when I hear Anders screaming for Hawke if they went down in battle! The Larion characters react as well, but for some reason it's more impactful in the BW games. Again, I think it's timing and volume compared to the ambient battle sounds. It stands out and grabs your attention.
I've also had similar thoughts with the romance scenes too. There's SO much more detail in the Larian romance scenes if you pull the ambient noise and music right down as quiet as they'll go. I mean, we all chuckled when Anders groaned out loud during "that kiss"... You should hear what Halsin sounds like if you remove all the audio clutter from his scene! It's positively indecent! Google "Halsin BG3 ASMR TikTok" *You're Welcome* 😅😅😈😈
The content and quality is *there* in all three IPs, but BW just executed it *slightly* better.
Thank you for this bc if I see another person compare Lae'zel to Stein and Zevran to Astarion I will do nothing but complain that it still keeps happening!
Yes, the companions! I feel like the companions are so full of life but something misses... Sometimes you have dialogs with npcs, travel, fight for hours and the companions don't really have anything to say. I know it's a challenge but i somehow wish that there would be like 3 times the dialogue of the companions and way more interactions between them, more reactions to the enviroment