Another stereotype that is simply not true is the idea that men always want sex, and are always thinking about sex, while women rarely want sex and usually "give in" and agree to have sex with their partner. Men and women are actually, in general, motivated by sex the same amount. However, this glosses over the fact that individuals actually vary quite heavily in how they interact with sex. Some women are highly sexually motivated, and engage in sex frequently, and some men are motivated little to none by sex and engage in it rarely. Again, the stereotype is there to simplify the world, reduce uncertainty, and make someone feel like the world around them is explained and categorized
This is mostly true, but men *do* tend to have higher libido on average. Higher testosterone levels tend to increase libido, and since men generally have more testosterone, they tend to have a higher sex drive. However, this is just on average, and there is a massive variation in both men and women. It’s still super common for a man to have fairly low libido, and for a woman to have fairly high.
Yeah and as both an asexual person and someone who has a lot of loved ones who've been SA-ed, I've hated the argument that having a libido or a sex drive in any capacity is like, the same thing as wanting to act on it?? Especially the way the argument gets used so often around SA and harrassment, like are we not just doing the biological equivalent of "well, what were you wearing"?? Its not okay and I see it all the time, just because you can do something doesn't mean you will or even want to, its just another way of compounding shame.
@@moonblossom2289 one of the most damaging aspects of SA is that, in most cases, the victim did experience some sort of orgasm. This not only is used as an excuse by the perpetrators but often produces shame in the victim FOR being assaulted, as if they somehow "deserved" it or "wanted" it. To then use this logic to dismiss male SA victims because they had an erection during their assault is just as horrifying
@@charliebeareuwuExactly. It's a ridiculous excuse because it's the body's natural reaction to stimulation that can't be controlled. An orgasm doesn't automatically equate to enjoyment. This really shouldn't be as huge of a misconception as it is.
exactly. i look stupid when i try to defend chainsaw man cause its the same energy as "NO GUYS MY BOOB ANIME ACTUALLY HAS REALLY DEEP MEANING!!" but it seriously does. chainsaw man isnt just a whole bunch of fan service cobbled together, that "fan service" matters and is crucial to the story another thing is those assholes who go "hes so lucky" completely disregarding male SA victims, theyre the reason shameful double standards like these even exist in the first place
Watch Super Eyepatch Wolf's video on Chainsaw Man. Not only is it an amazing video essay, but he has a moment where he talks about how this "boob manga" is actually deep. I think you'll enjoy it.
The novel "Son of Man" has actually some fanservice despite of how serious and dark is the story Is not new gen book, it was writted by a veteran of the Chaco War (that ended almost 90 years ago), and the story is literally "our country is cruel and hopeless, no i have to leave the country because some a**hoIe said that my stories are communist propaganda"
What's crazy is that the producers of that episode thought it was funny. I don't understand how SA against a male is funny. Thank God I've never watched The Boys💀
@@Jermstuckonpercs it's too grotesque for my taste. I'm okay with the gore but all the sex and weird comments and stuff doesn't make it that exciting to me.
@@wolfgangstallionmusic5639 I completely agree with you, but imo the finale more than makes up for everything this season. This season is definitely the weakest out of the 4 but still a 7/10 or 6/10
There is a manga called sensitive boy and it’s a huge rollercoaster of emotions of the main character who was sexual assaulted by his middle school teacher who was a young woman. One chapter explained how the victim felt and it was hard to read of the pain the poor boy went through.
One of the problems in western culture is we have formed what I like to call a "stereotypical victim" and "stereotypical perpetrator". Human beings like to simplify the world in order to reduce uncertainty, one of the deepest human fears. And so the idea that one category of people perpetrates something against another category is comfortable and safe. We've created this idea in our minds that SA is a "women's issue", and that it is perpetrated by men against women. The same goes for things like spousal abuse, and body image. SA is not a "woman's issue". It's a human issue, and all victims of SA deserve to be heard and supported. You'd think this would be uncontroversial, but I have heard some absolutely horrifying things said about male victims of SA, men who attempt s**cide, and men who suffer body image issues. They're the wrong kind of victim, and so people dismiss them :c
Who's we? SA isn't just a women's issue it's a human issue even if women are the most victims ( more than half), but the problem is that other men (not all) shame other male SA victims while women (not all) don't shame them and i see it myself especially on Instagram comments for example, the amount of men on men SA is crazy almost as much as men assaulting women while women assaulting men is very low but it exists, the solution is more representation in media that's the only way until people start calling it "woke" with how much the message is repeated since people know but ignore it, Weird and sad so sad and disappointing
@@zizojaezekeom3565 also I completely agree with you that the solution is better representation. So I hope you are just as upset as I about this absolutely terrible representation of male SA victims, rooted in sexist stereotypes about men
Yes but SA is overwhelmingly a women’s issue because of the unfair social dynamics that exist between men and women when men, just for being men, hold a lot of power over women so it is reasonable that most SA representation focuses on the women’s perspective
It's not a west problem. Men, generally, cannot be a victim in any part of the whole world, so it is nor a moral fault of the West, all of us. Most cultures do not even want to pretend that SA can happen at all regardless of the gender of the victim. They know it happens, but it is often the victim who is punished.
Himeno did it because she was jealous of Makima because Aki was attracted to Makima and so was Denji and so in a drunk way Himeno was trying to get back at Makima because of Makima’s perceived interest in Denji, this doesn’t Condone her actions at all and what she did was still technically kidnapping and SA
@@marcosgonzalez4207She quite literally hoisted him on her back and CARRIED him while he was out to her BED. And then when he was so tired he couldn't move she got ON TOP OF HIM, and BARELY thanks to Denji's self control didn't have sex with him. The hell you mean she didn't SA him??? Plus he's a minor so also VERY illegal.
I really like how fujimoto did this, its so common that “males cant be victims” which is bs. And chainsaw man did it perfectly, how denji kept falling into these horrible women and doesnt notice how hes getting groomed, and i love how they did power not as another one of those, but like a sister. (And denji ofc misses her) i dont have a long paragraph to say, i do love how fujimoto wrote denji.
I once saw an animation meme about what happens at a "real sleepover". Apparently, you SA whoever falls asleep first. I then commented "wtf this has actually happened to people don't joke about it". To which I got the response, by the creator "you've never been to a *real* sleepover, have you? 😏". Someone even came out and said this actually happened to them and implied it was deeply traumatic, and the replies were all "luckyyyy" or "can I sleep over with you?"
Empathy and sympathy is a foreign concept to the world nowdays, it disgusts me that a big part of me wishes for it to all burn down rather than hope for the world to get better.
Thanks for talking about this! It's insane to me that people can just miss the themes of grooming and SA in Chainsaw Man when it's so prominent. It was so sad seeing people react to 167 like "he's so lucky" when it was obviously framed in such a sad way. The fact people still cannot fathom men being victims of SA is baffling to me
You know, I've been meaning to have conversations with people on just exactly what went down in chapter 167, and the manner with which its outcome is being described as SA, because while I think the interaction between both Denji and Yoru/Asa is a messy one, I didn't see it as Yoru sexually assaulting Denji aside from her initial act of violence when attempting to crush his family jewels (that part, I deemed as assault, but it seems to be the part people talk the least about). No, I'm not claiming Denji and Yoru's encounter isn't SA for some stupid reason like, "Denji enjoyed it;" I'm saying that describing the entire event as SA without taking the context of who these characters are and what adolescent emotions they're experiencing feels like it compromises a more nuanced take for what went down between the two of these kids. For the record, I plan on talking about spoilers on the chapter and the series as well, so if anyone wanting to participate in this discussion, you have been warned. I'd like to start by asking what factors in the interaction between Denji and Yoru compelled you to feel uncomfortable enough to describe what went down as being SA? I think once we describe what crosses into SA, and what can make a situation deceptively seem as if it isn't, then we can constructively and comprehensively express our thoughts on the matter (Anyone is free to chime in, by the way)
@@sonicsenryaku6205 Regardless of how you think, I still think we can identify that scene as SA with a strong subliminal romantic subtext, like, it’s true that it all started from Denji wanting to cut his weewee off😂, but in the end nothing would’ve happened if both yoru wasn’t so “straightforward” and Asa wasn’t attracted. Besides it felt like Denji wasn’t even mentally prepared to enjoy it😂, so yeah, sucks to be him
The thing with The Boys is that it has handled R#pe before with Becca and I thought it was handled fairly well, they didn’t show much but still had the implication and how it negatively effected Butcher, Becca, and possibly in the future Ryan. It was an aspect that made Butchers motivations clearer. But then when it comes down to male characters they’re fine with showing everything to humiliate them (ex: homelander, Hughie, etc) and treat it as if it were nothing. Out of the many writers in the boys nobody was like “this is bad and maybe we should handle it better”. Denji (csm), Mark (Invincible), Angel Dust (Hazbin Hotel), are all victims that I think that are handled much better compared to whatever The Boys did. They weren’t just bits they were part of their characters and messed them up. However there will still be people saying that these characters are “lucky”. Even Angel Dust who doesn’t really fall under the same category as them still have primarily women who simp over Valentino (his gr00mer). I think the best comparison I could make is how people perceived the book Lolita, the movie back then made this little girl into a s3x symbol making this story about a girl getting gr00med. Nowadays similar things are happening to male characters, not in the same capacity but still having male characters being used as props for sexuality simply because they can use them as self inserts for a dom k!nk. It’s weird and wayyy to common in media. Soon im gonna watch Mysterious skins which I heard handles this subject pretty well so I might update this once I watch that flim.
it actually makes me happy to see anime fans/viewers talk about these kinds of topics. generally its only about lewd fantasies with their anime waifus or husbandos. Its reaching its saturation point, honestly. so its really a breath of fresh air to see videos like these being made. Please dont stop making these kinds of contents too. and thank you
Denji gotta be the most misunderstood character, I just saw reel where Denji was with characters like Griffith and other Rappers and other kind of creeps But Denji is literally just a teen IRL he's literally me if I didn't had any basic knowledge so I would just say things out loud. But he's very respectful to women's he never gets freaky the only horny type thing he does is saying he wants to get laid and every guy says that unless they are... So yeah he's somehow labelled the most horny creep type character cuz I always see ppl talking about him like that or making memes and reels like that which is kinda annoying
This video shows why I love chainsaw man because I feel like I’m being recognized. I had a teacher in my high school that used to be very flirty and get we too touchy with me. And for a long time I didn’t know what to think of it until I read chainsaw man around 2020 made me discover what truly was happening. And I was absolutely terrified of makima because she acted very similar to that teacher. I have been for a while a lot more cautious and little scared being around people who I think can hurt me like her. But always remember how Denji was able to defeat makima and have good people around him I try to do the same
I think they were trying to say that you defend yourself and to never tolerate those kinds of people and actions? But anyway, i'm glad CSM has helped you recognized what was going on. Pls stay safe bro @@caldervanegas240
I’m a guy and I relate a lot to Denji’s experiences and how they made him see the world. I wasn’t believed as a kid and CSM was the first media to make me feel seen in that way.
I’ve been thinking about this forever, so thank you for actually making this! Denji always made me so sad as a character, because society has convinced him that peak happiness is a sexual relationship with a woman, when he’s had plenty of fulfilling relationships with people like Aki, Power, and presumably Nayuta (I haven’t read part 2). I hope Denji is able to recognize his abuse and figure out what actually makes him happy one day, but that probably won’t happen for a long time.
This could be a companion piece to Pop Culture Detective's video on male victims. So often SA against a man (or a boy God forbid) is just the butt of a joke. I hate that. I hate that so much. While it's not as common as what women experience on average, it's way more common than people want to believe. But "boys always like sex" and "boys shouldn't talk about their feelings" and "suck it up and be a man" are thrown out without any understanding of the effect they have, at least in media. I like to think we as a society are growing and learning, but whoever is in charge of these things hasn't caught up with the rest of us. Denji is one of my favorite protagonists in manga and anime. The way his search for intimacy is constantly twisted against him is **the point**. The way his most meaningful connections tend to be platonic and unexpected (Aki, Power, Nayuta) isn't a coincidence. Personally, I think the overall point of Chainsaw Man is our collective search for intimacy, our fears of hurting each other, and the things that blind us to those two parts of ourselves. CSM says "yes sex is thrown in our faces constantly but it's not the end-all be-all of human relationships." Denji's journey is one of seeking family, in both parts. Tatsuki Fujimoto made his protagonist a realistic teenage boy with realistic problems we can connect to in a fantastical and horrifying world. The ways people (especially the women he flocks to) use his desires against him is a massive part of his story, and ignoring how it constantly hurts him does all of CSM a disservice.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought this. Even since the beginning, the sexual scenes in Chainsaw Man never once came across as just fan service to me. Kinda similar to the sex scene between Griffith and Charlotte in Berserk, the scenes in Chainsaw Man, both the anime and manga, just seemed off or even gross to me. This was how I felt about them even before the context you provided in this video. I honestly don’t understand how most look at them and are like “hell yeah” whereas, to me at least, they definitely are not there to be gratuitous. Anyway, this was a great video on this. This is the only other manga I’ve followed as intensely as Berserk so I always love videos like this.
I actually had to skip around during that boys episode, it was borderline unwatchable. Like there could've been a good bit and then no assault, instead it was a bad bit and ALL ASSAULT. I couldn't watch it, it was so upsetting :(
1 time back in 2016, my womanager asked me out on a date to TGI Fridays. I said no because I just finished 8 hours of paid sleigh very and wanted to go home, but I immediately started wondering if she really did ask me out She's 50 LBS overweight, but I still asked a male friend about it to get a 3rd person point of view. He called me a cuck for rejecting her 1st of all, what? That's not even the correct insult. 2nd of all, if a woman approaches a man, is he required to leta woman get what she wants from him? She has long history of groping me even in front of customers. Everyone at the store knew. Physically pulling away from her and even calling her a Harvey Weinstein weren't enough to show I didn't consent. He never recieved any punishment for socksually harassing me. Nobody thinks men can say no to a woman
@@parzavaal5335 The reason why men complain less is because men instinctively know they'll be looked down upon if they're victims. They know they are the sacrificial socks. I've tried speaking up about women harassing me. That woman wasn't the only one. Nothing ever happened to the other 3 a sail ants. My instinct was sadly proven right 4 times out of 4 times so far
I've only watch the anime, but i can tell that Denji are being used, Makima is using the fact that Denji just doesn't know any better and his wants of a happier life to groom then use him, plus he's a emotinally damaged kid, of course he gonna fantasize about intimacy
I find it funny how you mentioned the boys and how hughies SA was basically over and done with in like 1 minutes but it gets worse in the last episode where a body snatcher takes starlights body and, theres no other word to use r’s him because he THINKS its the real starlight and later when real starlight finds out she gets mad. Like, he had no idea really?
5:39 I almost thought you were gonna use the clip of Soos' grandma from Gravity Falls here where she goes, "No... He is not there..." And looks down... XD
I do agree that we should recognise that men can be victims too. But chainsaw man was not the first piece of media that talked about male victims though. The classic episode of South park is a good example.
i don't know if its just me being dumb but, i can't really understand the hate for himeno like, yeah its not shown as something good and she acknowledges it but at the same time she has issues and this showing through her drinking and smoking but also the fact that she did want to have sex while drunk with someone who's age she didn't know, though playing "devils" advocate she is basically shit-faced and doesnt really function as a normal person, it is a twisted coping mechanism for the reality that is her life. I know people might disagree but her regreting, or rather being grateful that in the end they didn't have sex shows that she isn't just some power hungry woman who wants to groom teenage boys, and through her limited backstory and circumstances we can just see that she is a somewhat broken person having to work in this kind of job having witnessed people close to her die but also just, working under makima. She isn't a "normal" and "good" person but she also isnt this evil woman going after little boys that most people paint her to be. This might just seem like some incoherent rambling so, tl;dr Himeno isn't this devil of a woman that people paint her to be
Nah I get you, it's mainly the anime's fault for painting Himeno like that honestly cause the tone is a bit different in the manga. Like in the manga it was mostly dark and the paneling is claustrophobic. Like it's a rash decision that doesn't give Denji enough time to think, while the anine there was more moonlight and slight sexualized shots of Himeno, like borderline romanticizing it, which absolutely awful that the anime did that cause that is not what happened. Himeno was drunk and horny and she wants to be with Aki, and Denji's like the closest thing to that. It's still bad and honestly I don't blame people for disliking her for that. But she's far from the most evil person in the bunch. We're allowed to feel complicated about what Himeno did and still like her as a character. She's tragic with a sad end.
Yeaj I get what you mean. She's a bad person and was about to do something horrible, but it wasn't premeditated so i wouldn't consider her a groomer. I honestly don't think she was into Denji and I don't think she would have done that sober. I think people fail to consider her whole characterization and motives. That being said, while I don't think she was malicious, she did cause harm to Denji regardless of intent. I just don't like people not analyzing the situation with nuance. If you brand Himeno as a groomer, you miss the subtext of how damaged people who use vices to distract them can ofte n harm others, intentionally or unintentionally.
I wanna say that, i'm pretty sure Himeno already knew denji's age before her drunken attempt to sleep with him. If I remember correctly denji mentions that he thinks he's 16 at the dinner with the rest of the cast of characters. EDIT: Yup i'm correct. This scene shows Himeno sitting literally right next to Denji as he reveals to everyone he's 16: ua-cam.com/video/GBmM4vqUOm0/v-deo.htmlsi=NZHw9sfrUiYSvGru
Not defend her, just pointing this out: Himeno is motivated by jealousy for Makima (due to Aki's crush on her) filtered through drunk logic (since Makima feels something for Denji from Himeno's perspective).
Not defending her either, but while she was sober she didn't know he was a minor. Doesn't excuse her actions while drunk tho since she found out then. I think she blacked out, but honestly she shouldn't be drinking if it leads her to do things like that. I don't think she's a groomer by definition since it wasn't premeditated, but it still would have been statutory r*pe.
@@shirendjorgee9320 I wanna say that, i'm pretty sure Himeno already knew denji's age before her drunken attempt to sleep with him. If I remember correctly, denji mentions that he thinks he's 16 at the dinner with the rest of the cast of characters. EDIT: Yup i'm correct. This scene here literally has himeno sitting next to denji as he reveals to everyone that he's 16: ua-cam.com/video/GBmM4vqUOm0/v-deo.htmlsi=NZHw9sfrUiYSvGru
yeah, i watched the new The Boys episode with tristan. this was the only full episode i’ve ever watched of the boys (i’ve only seen clips of the show) and it has completely deterred me from watching the show unfortunately. i was very grossed out with everything that happened in that episode and how it was hardly even talked about after. the creators just completely disregarded what just happened to the main character and it made it feel even grosser. i know most of the boys is probably better than that episode but it was just unfortunate that it was the first full episode i watched because now i just don’t even want to watch any of it anymore 😭 i hope the boys does more with the trauma the character experienced in the future but based on how it was handled, i can’t be too sure. although, it’s nice to know that chainsaw man’s sexual scenes actually have impact on the story rather than just being gooner bait. W video.
yooo THANK YOU for bringing up that scene from the boys cause that shit irked the hell out of me ever since seeing it. Especially how instead of delving into how traumatizing something like that would be WHATSOVER Hughie just goes " nah I'm just sad about my dad actually". Now that I think about it, it could've played into making the shapeshifter twist showed later way more interesting too! (the boys fell of p hard imo). Anywaysss. Great video in general, just came off your jjk recap video and looks like I'll have to subscribe, keep it up :] (small not on 10:50, hasn't it always been like that? Life imitates art? seems natural to me)
As a woman, i thank you for this kind of content as well. I never find it funny when denji got SA from female characters. He would have severe PTSD and barely have wills to live already irl. But if you are Denji IRL, please don't give up and try your best to get out of the hazardous situation. If you can find justice for yourself, please do.
Chainsawman is a very uncomfortable watch because of the scenes disguised as fanservice. Half the time, I'm hoping Denji just realizes what's happening and gets away... The manga... well...
I think how horny the manga is leads to a lot of the misunderstandings (specifically the between chapter page art that often has a "pin up poster" vibe). There is a lot of fan servicy stuff in CSM that isn't part of the groomer thing which makes it harder for less attentive fans to see the difference.
I guess you're referring to chp43, as that's the only time I can remember (and find, besides the Quanxi opening) a sexual chapter cover, and that was just a visualization of Denji's thoughts.
I'm gonna need to reread the manga now, because i honestly didn't pick up on most of this and just dismissed it as, yknow. Anime fanservice + lol guys are pervy even as minors shtick. Couldn't quite get a read on how the mangaka wanted me to see it immediately, ykno?
@@nekuro5548 the reason is because you are not meant to see it immidiately, chainsawman is a great portrayal of a male victim as you see things at almost the same points that denji is able to see them, for example even though Makima's cruelty was very fucking clear in retrospect you only truly see it post Power's death
I think people forget that Himeno was blacked out, asks if they did anything, and is RELIEVED they didn't sleep together because she would have gone to JAIL.
Exactly why I never got the hype around Himeno and Makima, like yeah, they are objectively kinda hot, but also they give me goosebumps whenever they're in the same room as Denji. I mean good on Himeno for... not screwing a drunk minor? I guess. Way to do the bare minimum. But then she immediately agrees to get Denji (16) together with Makima (who she presumes is a human adult in a position of power (and is a bajillion times older than Denji anyways))
The problem is the cycle of wanting to do wrong that has been done to them. The internet is a worldwide invitation for people to do wrongs to those they deemed has wronged them. This means you have an ether of both victims and perpetrators who are living even each other’s lives, ironically, for their own gain. And people find it achieving when money is so easily thrown around like it is freaking Robin Hood.
This video was written incredibly well and discusses Denji's trauma with the attention deserved. However, I have one gripe and that's simply boiling down Himeno to "fuck it, why not?" She is ALSO a victim of her fucked up circumstances - a victim that is portrayed really well in terms of how traumatized individuals act out in incredibly unhealthy ways. She's watched her partners die time and time again, falls in love with her latest one, and watches him pine over a woman that she knows has vile undertones. Her response to all this? Seek any coping mechanism possible to drown out her fears. She turns to cigarettes and encourages others to smoke because devil hunting will kill you before smoking, binge drinks so she doesn't have to fully process her thoughts, masks her genuine worry behind shits and giggles, and gets protective over the one man she cares about while seeking the affection she's missing with meaningless sex with her co-workers. She is selfish and coping HARD because she doesn't see a way out. She is a good example of someone who tries to be sweet but doesn't stop her horrifying habits until it nearly culminates in the assault of minor. She's not vindictive - just incredibly broken and indulges in her extremely damaging habits. I just feel like you can't give Denji that same benefit of the doubt without also analyzing those around him. None of these characters are that black and white.
The crazy thing about EP 6 is that the depiction of Tek knight in the show is vastly inferior to the depiction of him in the comics, which itself is crazy cause the boys is a rare example of the source material being inferior to the adaptation. Tek knight in the comics is a rich guy who doesn't have v in his system. Instead he made a suit (Hes literally batman and iron man combined) he simply wanted to be a hero and he wanted to save people. He developed the tumor in his brain that caused him to fuck holes but he does not like wat is happening to himself and actively seeks out help and therapy. He almost assaulted his robin but fought off the urge and sent his robin away and cried about wat was happening. Compare that to the shows version and hes just a perverted masochistic racist with a penchant for devilish debauchery.
Another serie that made a good use of this topic is Oshi no Ko, yes, that manga that is not about incest but it looks like it is (Spoilers of Chainsaw Man part 2) I think that people exagerate chapter 167, and ignores the elephant on the room Asa, she was forced to wank a man, how is that called? Yes, s3×uaI assault... i mean, she forced "themselve" to se×uaIIy assault a guy. Anyway, a common consecuence of the SA is the shame, not necessary for some "purity" reason, but the victims usually think "i resisted enough?", "people will believe on me?" And, well, in Denji's eyes, Asa did that by her own will, she was so scared and disgusted that Yoru lost the control for a moment Sadly, Asa is not the protagonist of her own part, i loved her as a main character
Denji was orphaned as a small child, which makes the power dynamic between him and his boss even bigger. The guy is clueless about real life. Denji always talks about the simple things he’s glad to have. That’s his real character, a humble guy that is too damaged to overthink things. Also, at least in the manga, his strong desire for something is linked to his power. Makima artificially created a hypersexual desire to use his power
I know this is a bit random but what if Thorfinn from vinland saga switch places or was in Denji shoes...would Thorfinn have made the same decisions as Denji 🤔? I'm not saying that Thorfinn is a perfect example on how not to be a victim. Hell just like Denji Thorfinn was also kinda manipulated by Askeladd. But Thorfinn was able to change and redeem himself for the better...I honestly hope Denji does the same. 😟👍 If Denji could turn his life around like Thorfinn it would honestly make me Kidda happy. But honestly if Thorfinn was in Denji shoes what choices and decisions would be make compared to Denji?🤔 I can't stop thinking about it!😅
Denji never had an education nor someone to teach him anything at all, ofc thorfinn would act differently. But I feel like most men would prolly fall for the hot girl putting them in weird situations too..
You mention that a lot of people ignore the context of Denji's breakdown in 166 when analyzing the events of 167. And while I think that is important, I feel like there's a few distinctions that must be made. In chapter 166, Denji was on his way to a brothel to have sex with some random woman. Just as we've seen throughout most of the story, Denji was distracting himself with the goal of mindless sexual gratification with some random person that means nothing to him, and who he also would have meant nothing to. Denji desires intimacy, but since he's been deprived of it for so long, he looks for sex as a form of replacement. However, I don't think the events of 167 quite fall into the same category as the other sexual encounters we've seen throughout the story. Asa was not some stranger. She's a girl Denji has feelings for and has some level of an emotional connection with (Aquarium Arc and Falling Devil Arc). Asa isn't a woman that is in a position of power over Denji nor has any intentions of manipulating him. Asa is the only true peer that Denji has had all throughout Part 2 and her feelings for him are genuine. Yes, it was technically Yoru that initiated the encounter, but her actions were a manifestation of Asa's desires (Yoru is a devil who has no filter). And from Denji's perspective, this was all Asa's doing. The point that I'm trying to get at here is that chapter 167 didn't seem like a repeat of the other sexual encounters we've seen Denji in throughout the series. This wasn't an instance of Denji being taken advantage of, but instead, a very confusing and weird moment between 2 very confused and weird teenagers who have no real sexual experience. In the beginning, Denji was scared because he thought Asa (Yoru) was about to crush his balls, but you can see near the end of the chapter, Denji starts kissing her back. Instead of this being a fling with some random girl, it was an intimate moment between Denji and a girl that has mutual feelings towards him. Intimacy has always been what Denji truly desired.
@@parzavaal5335 I feel like because there's been a long history of inappropriate, and even abusive, forms of sexual interactions being downplayed or even ignored by society, there's now been a bit of an overcorrection, where sometimes there's a hypervigilance in trying to identify some sexual encounter as either strictly bad or strictly good. There's a reason why I described the events of 167 as "confusing and weird". Because that's what it was for both parties. For Denji, he's gone through hell and has lost everything in his life. Now, for this perspective, Asa is trying to cut off his dick for some reason and then she stops and then randomly starts kissing him. This is a girl that his likes, but her trying to crush his balls was super scary and he didn't even know how to feel because of everything else that was going on. From Yoru's perspective, she's a devil that knows very little about human society or their customs. She explicitly tells this to Asa because that's the reason she allowed Asa to keep half of her brain because she wouldn't have been able to blend into human society otherwise. However, now that she is sharing Asa's body, Yoru also experiences her emotions. Originally, Yoru just saw Denji as an obstacle to her objective of fighting Chainsaw Man, which is why she put her hands down his pants to cut off his dick because she actually took Denji literally when he said that his dick was making him miserable (again, Yoru doesn't understand human emotions). However, when she got up close to Denji, all of Asa's emotions started to flow into her, and all she felt was a desire to kiss him, so that's what she did. When we talk about SA, there's an aspect that's often forgotten about that makes it so horrible, which is the willingness of someone to knowingly break important social norms. Let's consider 2 different scenarios: Scenario 1: There is a man walking down the street. He sees a woman bending over trying to pick up something she dropped. He then comes up behind her and slaps her rear area. I assume you would agree with me that this is a clear example of SA, and most people would rightfully see that man as a disgusting person for that action Scenario 2: In this scenario, everything plays out exactly the same as #1, but there's one small difference: instead of it being a man, the person that slaps the woman's rear is a 2 year old boy. Now, some people may still consider this SA and some other people wouldn't. But I doubt that pretty much anyone would see that 2 year old boy as "disgusting" like they would with the man even though the actions are 1:1. Realistically, most people, including the woman, would probably see it as funny. The reason for this, as I brought up earlier, is that when it comes to moral culpability, the person being aware that they are breaking an important social norm is a huge factor. I bring all of this up because I feel like it’s easy to throw around labels and completely skip actually looking further into something and making judgements based on the context of the situation. Sure, we can say that SA occurred in the Scenario 2 that I brought up, but it’s completely worthless when it comes to judging how bad the situation actually was. I think it’s fairly likely that Yoru is starting to develop feelings for Denji. And Denji pretty clearly likes Asa. The depiction of things in chapter 167 seemed much closer to a very confusing and awkward encounter with 2 teenagers, with no sexual experience and having no idea what to do with all the weird emotions they were feeling.
@@Alex_Johnson_ no offense, you just said a whole lot of nothing, I'm not blaming Asa, since it was literally the devil that did that, but even two people in love can still SA each other, if one of them is doing smth the other person didn't ask for, especially since Denji clearly stated he was tired of all the sexual shit clouding his mind. I think the overcorrection for SA going unnoticed was the MeToo movement, which is already long gone. Please oh please stop trying to pass this moment off as anything but something that shouldn't have happened, I'm fine with it in the story, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing for Denji, Asa, or their relationship. Let me reiterate, Denji, after stating he didn't want to be horny anymore, gets a handjob he didn't ask for, from a girl he likes in a backalley. While she forced her mouth onto his. if that's not sexual assault I don't know what is, it sure sounds way worse than your clear definition of SA being a douchebag slapping a woman's ass doesn't it?
@@Novakain. Not really Denji’s portrayal specifically, but more the general tone of the manga. All of the main female characters have sexually assaulted Denji in some way, and in many cases, he’s portrayed as liking it
Youre being way too negative about The Boys, do you really need more than a single line if its delivered with acting that tells you exactly how heavy it lands? I didnt think the episode made fun of SA, not to mention what happened to him was not nearly as bad as what happened to Annie...
The strangest part is that the men creating these sort of contents don’t even stand up for their own people. Unlike how we females will vocalise and talk about these issues, and provide help for each other, you men just refuse to help each other for some reason.
Are you serious do you not know how shallow and competitive women are with each other? Have you researched that. Do you not see how men help each other at least ones that are not stuck in the idea that men cannot be this or worship women.
I agree with that SA on boys is over looked and should be talked about more but with chainsaw man and the boys I don’t think it should be talked negative about over what happen because it isn’t played off as a joke this stuff happens are we just supposed to not show this in media? I understand Dennis character and how he really wants a family not sex but csm story was never on the nose like that the whole story of csm Denji never even says that’s what he wants but as the reader we know
"If the roles were reversed" is such a smooth brain thing to say. Because they're not the same. Both are terrible but when a man or boy gets assaulted, other men and boys will say "I wish that was me"
And that gets Called out, it doesn't make the point any weaker or make them "not the same" If we're using that argument, then we can talk about how women idolize actual serial killers or guys that treat them badly.
@@Mavuika_Gyaru"smooth brain" Seriously? Did you even pay attention to my comment, The majority of people react in the same way. Does the minority outweigh the majority in this case.
@@eagle162 that literally is irrelevant. Go to any post about a teacher graping a boy. Without fail there will be men saying how lucky the victim is. You can't say the same about serial unalivers and fanatic women, those you have to go out of your way to find in some forum. You are a smooth brain and you don't have any arguments
@@Mavuika_Gyaruoh really. "Teacher Describes How Sexual Relationship With 15-Year-Old Student Began" "NJ Teacher Allegedly Sexually Assaulted High School Student for Months" One is 9 years old and you still have newer comments saying how disgusting it is. The other one is 3 weeks old and you'll find far more people calling this out. Also what about the woman who called this out as well along with men.
Another stereotype that is simply not true is the idea that men always want sex, and are always thinking about sex, while women rarely want sex and usually "give in" and agree to have sex with their partner.
Men and women are actually, in general, motivated by sex the same amount. However, this glosses over the fact that individuals actually vary quite heavily in how they interact with sex. Some women are highly sexually motivated, and engage in sex frequently, and some men are motivated little to none by sex and engage in it rarely.
Again, the stereotype is there to simplify the world, reduce uncertainty, and make someone feel like the world around them is explained and categorized
I was arguing with my Classmate about this because he said that Males CANNOT become SA Victims. It's sad tbh
This is mostly true, but men *do* tend to have higher libido on average. Higher testosterone levels tend to increase libido, and since men generally have more testosterone, they tend to have a higher sex drive.
However, this is just on average, and there is a massive variation in both men and women. It’s still super common for a man to have fairly low libido, and for a woman to have fairly high.
Yeah and as both an asexual person and someone who has a lot of loved ones who've been SA-ed, I've hated the argument that having a libido or a sex drive in any capacity is like, the same thing as wanting to act on it?? Especially the way the argument gets used so often around SA and harrassment, like are we not just doing the biological equivalent of "well, what were you wearing"?? Its not okay and I see it all the time, just because you can do something doesn't mean you will or even want to, its just another way of compounding shame.
@@moonblossom2289 one of the most damaging aspects of SA is that, in most cases, the victim did experience some sort of orgasm. This not only is used as an excuse by the perpetrators but often produces shame in the victim FOR being assaulted, as if they somehow "deserved" it or "wanted" it.
To then use this logic to dismiss male SA victims because they had an erection during their assault is just as horrifying
@@charliebeareuwuExactly. It's a ridiculous excuse because it's the body's natural reaction to stimulation that can't be controlled. An orgasm doesn't automatically equate to enjoyment. This really shouldn't be as huge of a misconception as it is.
exactly. i look stupid when i try to defend chainsaw man cause its the same energy as "NO GUYS MY BOOB ANIME ACTUALLY HAS REALLY DEEP MEANING!!" but it seriously does. chainsaw man isnt just a whole bunch of fan service cobbled together, that "fan service" matters and is crucial to the story
another thing is those assholes who go "hes so lucky" completely disregarding male SA victims, theyre the reason shameful double standards like these even exist in the first place
Watch Super Eyepatch Wolf's video on Chainsaw Man. Not only is it an amazing video essay, but he has a moment where he talks about how this "boob manga" is actually deep. I think you'll enjoy it.
@@marymartin2154 i know, i did! it was great and his video essays are always really high quality
The novel "Son of Man" has actually some fanservice despite of how serious and dark is the story
Is not new gen book, it was writted by a veteran of the Chaco War (that ended almost 90 years ago), and the story is literally "our country is cruel and hopeless, no i have to leave the country because some a**hoIe said that my stories are communist propaganda"
it is similar in some moments with FLCL
What's crazy is that the producers of that episode thought it was funny. I don't understand how SA against a male is funny. Thank God I've never watched The Boys💀
The boys is peak
@@Jermstuckonpercs it's too grotesque for my taste. I'm okay with the gore but all the sex and weird comments and stuff doesn't make it that exciting to me.
@@ProgenitorGodI now agree after watching the latest season it felt like it was doing some things to just do them. stopped watching mid season
@@wolfgangstallionmusic5639 he talks about comics not serial?
@@wolfgangstallionmusic5639 I completely agree with you, but imo the finale more than makes up for everything this season. This season is definitely the weakest out of the 4 but still a 7/10 or 6/10
There is a manga called sensitive boy and it’s a huge rollercoaster of emotions of the main character who was sexual assaulted by his middle school teacher who was a young woman.
One chapter explained how the victim felt and it was hard to read of the pain the poor boy went through.
One of the problems in western culture is we have formed what I like to call a "stereotypical victim" and "stereotypical perpetrator". Human beings like to simplify the world in order to reduce uncertainty, one of the deepest human fears. And so the idea that one category of people perpetrates something against another category is comfortable and safe.
We've created this idea in our minds that SA is a "women's issue", and that it is perpetrated by men against women. The same goes for things like spousal abuse, and body image.
SA is not a "woman's issue". It's a human issue, and all victims of SA deserve to be heard and supported. You'd think this would be uncontroversial, but I have heard some absolutely horrifying things said about male victims of SA, men who attempt s**cide, and men who suffer body image issues.
They're the wrong kind of victim, and so people dismiss them :c
Who's we? SA isn't just a women's issue it's a human issue even if women are the most victims ( more than half), but the problem is that other men (not all) shame other male SA victims while women (not all) don't shame them and i see it myself especially on Instagram comments for example, the amount of men on men SA is crazy almost as much as men assaulting women while women assaulting men is very low but it exists, the solution is more representation in media that's the only way until people start calling it "woke" with how much the message is repeated since people know but ignore it, Weird and sad so sad and disappointing
@@zizojaezekeom3565 also I completely agree with you that the solution is better representation. So I hope you are just as upset as I about this absolutely terrible representation of male SA victims, rooted in sexist stereotypes about men
Yes but SA is overwhelmingly a women’s issue because of the unfair social dynamics that exist between men and women when men, just for being men, hold a lot of power over women so it is reasonable that most SA representation focuses on the women’s perspective
@@hugolxxx It's not because you don't hear about men that it's a women's issue. It's a human issue, full stop.
It's not a west problem. Men, generally, cannot be a victim in any part of the whole world, so it is nor a moral fault of the West, all of us. Most cultures do not even want to pretend that SA can happen at all regardless of the gender of the victim. They know it happens, but it is often the victim who is punished.
Himeno did it because she was jealous of Makima because Aki was attracted to Makima and so was Denji and so in a drunk way Himeno was trying to get back at Makima because of Makima’s perceived interest in Denji, this doesn’t Condone her actions at all and what she did was still technically kidnapping and SA
It was not SA, because she was seducing Denji, not forcing him, and she did not insisted after that
@@marcosgonzalez4207 Trying to seduce a minor is still statutory R, so SA.
@@marcosgonzalez4207She quite literally hoisted him on her back and CARRIED him while he was out to her BED. And then when he was so tired he couldn't move she got ON TOP OF HIM, and BARELY thanks to Denji's self control didn't have sex with him. The hell you mean she didn't SA him??? Plus he's a minor so also VERY illegal.
@@megagofer1020 look at your penal code, you will probably find that is not ilegal to f*ck with a teenager, and if it is, is only for minors of 16
I guess I'm psychopathic or a nympho, cause I would've done a thing or two with Himeno. Just saying 🤷♂️
I really like how fujimoto did this, its so common that “males cant be victims” which is bs. And chainsaw man did it perfectly, how denji kept falling into these horrible women and doesnt notice how hes getting groomed, and i love how they did power not as another one of those, but like a sister. (And denji ofc misses her) i dont have a long paragraph to say, i do love how fujimoto wrote denji.
I once saw an animation meme about what happens at a "real sleepover". Apparently, you SA whoever falls asleep first.
I then commented "wtf this has actually happened to people don't joke about it". To which I got the response, by the creator "you've never been to a *real* sleepover, have you? 😏".
Someone even came out and said this actually happened to them and implied it was deeply traumatic, and the replies were all "luckyyyy" or "can I sleep over with you?"
People can be so heartless about others' trauma, it's horrifying.
Empathy and sympathy is a foreign concept to the world nowdays, it disgusts me that a big part of me wishes for it to all burn down rather than hope for the world to get better.
@@SolaireHighwindwomp womp
@@thomasdeen2099if you went outside instead of staying in your Internet trap bubble you would know that isn’t true💀
Yeah those memes are hella funny laughing at bad things is the best. Especially when its not true.
Thanks for talking about this! It's insane to me that people can just miss the themes of grooming and SA in Chainsaw Man when it's so prominent. It was so sad seeing people react to 167 like "he's so lucky" when it was obviously framed in such a sad way. The fact people still cannot fathom men being victims of SA is baffling to me
You know, I've been meaning to have conversations with people on just exactly what went down in chapter 167, and the manner with which its outcome is being described as SA, because while I think the interaction between both Denji and Yoru/Asa is a messy one, I didn't see it as Yoru sexually assaulting Denji aside from her initial act of violence when attempting to crush his family jewels (that part, I deemed as assault, but it seems to be the part people talk the least about). No, I'm not claiming Denji and Yoru's encounter isn't SA for some stupid reason like, "Denji enjoyed it;" I'm saying that describing the entire event as SA without taking the context of who these characters are and what adolescent emotions they're experiencing feels like it compromises a more nuanced take for what went down between the two of these kids. For the record, I plan on talking about spoilers on the chapter and the series as well, so if anyone wanting to participate in this discussion, you have been warned.
I'd like to start by asking what factors in the interaction between Denji and Yoru compelled you to feel uncomfortable enough to describe what went down as being SA? I think once we describe what crosses into SA, and what can make a situation deceptively seem as if it isn't, then we can constructively and comprehensively express our thoughts on the matter (Anyone is free to chime in, by the way)
@@sonicsenryaku6205 Regardless of how you think, I still think we can identify that scene as SA with a strong subliminal romantic subtext, like, it’s true that it all started from Denji wanting to cut his weewee off😂, but in the end nothing would’ve happened if both yoru wasn’t so “straightforward” and Asa wasn’t attracted. Besides it felt like Denji wasn’t even mentally prepared to enjoy it😂, so yeah, sucks to be him
The thing with The Boys is that it has handled R#pe before with Becca and I thought it was handled fairly well, they didn’t show much but still had the implication and how it negatively effected Butcher, Becca, and possibly in the future Ryan. It was an aspect that made Butchers motivations clearer. But then when it comes down to male characters they’re fine with showing everything to humiliate them (ex: homelander, Hughie, etc) and treat it as if it were nothing. Out of the many writers in the boys nobody was like “this is bad and maybe we should handle it better”.
Denji (csm), Mark (Invincible), Angel Dust (Hazbin Hotel), are all victims that I think that are handled much better compared to whatever The Boys did. They weren’t just bits they were part of their characters and messed them up. However there will still be people saying that these characters are “lucky”. Even Angel Dust who doesn’t really fall under the same category as them still have primarily women who simp over Valentino (his gr00mer).
I think the best comparison I could make is how people perceived the book Lolita, the movie back then made this little girl into a s3x symbol making this story about a girl getting gr00med. Nowadays similar things are happening to male characters, not in the same capacity but still having male characters being used as props for sexuality simply because they can use them as self inserts for a dom k!nk.
It’s weird and wayyy to common in media. Soon im gonna watch Mysterious skins which I heard handles this subject pretty well so I might update this once I watch that flim.
Oh yeah sure... Becca is handled well because its the whole main motivation on Butcher
The rest while yeah F*** up, it something typical in the comic
it actually makes me happy to see anime fans/viewers talk about these kinds of topics. generally its only about lewd fantasies with their anime waifus or husbandos. Its reaching its saturation point, honestly. so its really a breath of fresh air to see videos like these being made. Please dont stop making these kinds of contents too. and thank you
It reached it's saturation point a loooong time ago, tbh.
Denji gotta be the most misunderstood character, I just saw reel where Denji was with characters like Griffith and other Rappers and other kind of creeps
But Denji is literally just a teen IRL he's literally me if I didn't had any basic knowledge so I would just say things out loud.
But he's very respectful to women's he never gets freaky the only horny type thing he does is saying he wants to get laid and every guy says that unless they are...
So yeah he's somehow labelled the most horny creep type character cuz I always see ppl talking about him like that or making memes and reels like that which is kinda annoying
A lot of people ignores how respectful can be Denji with women
This video shows why I love chainsaw man because I feel like I’m being recognized. I had a teacher in my high school that used to be very flirty and get we too touchy with me. And for a long time I didn’t know what to think of it until I read chainsaw man around 2020 made me discover what truly was happening. And I was absolutely terrified of makima because she acted very similar to that teacher. I have been for a while a lot more cautious and little scared being around people who I think can hurt me like her. But always remember how Denji was able to defeat makima and have good people around him I try to do the same
Sorry to hear about the bad experiences 😢. Now defending yourself and don't tolerate those kinds of assaults ok?
@@alitcher4425 are you asking if it’s okay to defend yourself?
I think they were trying to say that you defend yourself and to never tolerate those kinds of people and actions? But anyway, i'm glad CSM has helped you recognized what was going on. Pls stay safe bro @@caldervanegas240
I’m a guy and I relate a lot to Denji’s experiences and how they made him see the world. I wasn’t believed as a kid and CSM was the first media to make me feel seen in that way.
I’ve been thinking about this forever, so thank you for actually making this! Denji always made me so sad as a character, because society has convinced him that peak happiness is a sexual relationship with a woman, when he’s had plenty of fulfilling relationships with people like Aki, Power, and presumably Nayuta (I haven’t read part 2). I hope Denji is able to recognize his abuse and figure out what actually makes him happy one day, but that probably won’t happen for a long time.
nayutas like a younger sister
This could be a companion piece to Pop Culture Detective's video on male victims. So often SA against a man (or a boy God forbid) is just the butt of a joke. I hate that. I hate that so much. While it's not as common as what women experience on average, it's way more common than people want to believe. But "boys always like sex" and "boys shouldn't talk about their feelings" and "suck it up and be a man" are thrown out without any understanding of the effect they have, at least in media. I like to think we as a society are growing and learning, but whoever is in charge of these things hasn't caught up with the rest of us.
Denji is one of my favorite protagonists in manga and anime. The way his search for intimacy is constantly twisted against him is **the point**. The way his most meaningful connections tend to be platonic and unexpected (Aki, Power, Nayuta) isn't a coincidence. Personally, I think the overall point of Chainsaw Man is our collective search for intimacy, our fears of hurting each other, and the things that blind us to those two parts of ourselves. CSM says "yes sex is thrown in our faces constantly but it's not the end-all be-all of human relationships." Denji's journey is one of seeking family, in both parts.
Tatsuki Fujimoto made his protagonist a realistic teenage boy with realistic problems we can connect to in a fantastical and horrifying world. The ways people (especially the women he flocks to) use his desires against him is a massive part of his story, and ignoring how it constantly hurts him does all of CSM a disservice.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought this. Even since the beginning, the sexual scenes in Chainsaw Man never once came across as just fan service to me. Kinda similar to the sex scene between Griffith and Charlotte in Berserk, the scenes in Chainsaw Man, both the anime and manga, just seemed off or even gross to me. This was how I felt about them even before the context you provided in this video. I honestly don’t understand how most look at them and are like “hell yeah” whereas, to me at least, they definitely are not there to be gratuitous.
Anyway, this was a great video on this. This is the only other manga I’ve followed as intensely as Berserk so I always love videos like this.
I actually had to skip around during that boys episode, it was borderline unwatchable. Like there could've been a good bit and then no assault, instead it was a bad bit and ALL ASSAULT. I couldn't watch it, it was so upsetting :(
literally man it was so unnecessary 💀
@@OhHeckItsTristanI appreciate you bringing it up, I’m reluctant to watch any more of the show because of that one episode. Good video bro!
1 time back in 2016, my womanager asked me out on a date to TGI Fridays. I said no because I just finished 8 hours of paid sleigh very and wanted to go home, but I immediately started wondering if she really did ask me out
She's 50 LBS overweight, but I still asked a male friend about it to get a 3rd person point of view. He called me a cuck for rejecting her
1st of all, what? That's not even the correct insult. 2nd of all, if a woman approaches a man, is he required to leta woman get what she wants from him?
She has long history of groping me even in front of customers. Everyone at the store knew. Physically pulling away from her and even calling her a Harvey Weinstein weren't enough to show I didn't consent. He never recieved any punishment for socksually harassing me. Nobody thinks men can say no to a woman
Ig the reason women get away with it is because men don't complain as much as women would
@@parzavaal5335 The reason why men complain less is because men instinctively know they'll be looked down upon if they're victims. They know they are the sacrificial socks. I've tried speaking up about women harassing me. That woman wasn't the only one. Nothing ever happened to the other 3 a sail ants. My instinct was sadly proven right 4 times out of 4 times so far
stil find it crazy that chibi congradulated denji for being assaulted, then demanded an apology
I've only watch the anime, but i can tell that Denji are being used, Makima is using the fact that Denji just doesn't know any better and his wants of a happier life to groom then use him, plus he's a emotinally damaged kid, of course he gonna fantasize about intimacy
I find it funny how you mentioned the boys and how hughies SA was basically over and done with in like 1 minutes but it gets worse in the last episode where a body snatcher takes starlights body and, theres no other word to use r’s him because he THINKS its the real starlight and later when real starlight finds out she gets mad. Like, he had no idea really?
5:39 I almost thought you were gonna use the clip of Soos' grandma from Gravity Falls here where she goes, "No... He is not there..." And looks down... XD
With chapter 170 I can’t tell if fujimoto is just trolling because this shit got my jaw on the floor like wtf is this. Denji fr can’t catch a beak
I do agree that we should recognise that men can be victims too. But chainsaw man was not the first piece of media that talked about male victims though. The classic episode of South park is a good example.
i don't know if its just me being dumb but, i can't really understand the hate for himeno like, yeah its not shown as something good and she acknowledges it but at the same time she has issues and this showing through her drinking and smoking but also the fact that she did want to have sex while drunk with someone who's age she didn't know, though playing "devils" advocate she is basically shit-faced and doesnt really function as a normal person, it is a twisted coping mechanism for the reality that is her life. I know people might disagree but her regreting, or rather being grateful that in the end they didn't have sex shows that she isn't just some power hungry woman who wants to groom teenage boys, and through her limited backstory and circumstances we can just see that she is a somewhat broken person having to work in this kind of job having witnessed people close to her die but also just, working under makima. She isn't a "normal" and "good" person but she also isnt this evil woman going after little boys that most people paint her to be.
This might just seem like some incoherent rambling so, tl;dr Himeno isn't this devil of a woman that people paint her to be
Nah I get you, it's mainly the anime's fault for painting Himeno like that honestly cause the tone is a bit different in the manga. Like in the manga it was mostly dark and the paneling is claustrophobic. Like it's a rash decision that doesn't give Denji enough time to think, while the anine there was more moonlight and slight sexualized shots of Himeno, like borderline romanticizing it, which absolutely awful that the anime did that cause that is not what happened. Himeno was drunk and horny and she wants to be with Aki, and Denji's like the closest thing to that. It's still bad and honestly I don't blame people for disliking her for that. But she's far from the most evil person in the bunch. We're allowed to feel complicated about what Himeno did and still like her as a character. She's tragic with a sad end.
Yeaj I get what you mean. She's a bad person and was about to do something horrible, but it wasn't premeditated so i wouldn't consider her a groomer. I honestly don't think she was into Denji and I don't think she would have done that sober. I think people fail to consider her whole characterization and motives. That being said, while I don't think she was malicious, she did cause harm to Denji regardless of intent. I just don't like people not analyzing the situation with nuance. If you brand Himeno as a groomer, you miss the subtext of how damaged people who use vices to distract them can ofte n harm others, intentionally or unintentionally.
I wanna say that, i'm pretty sure Himeno already knew denji's age before her drunken attempt to sleep with him. If I remember correctly denji mentions that he thinks he's 16 at the dinner with the rest of the cast of characters.
EDIT: Yup i'm correct. This scene shows Himeno sitting literally right next to Denji as he reveals to everyone he's 16: ua-cam.com/video/GBmM4vqUOm0/v-deo.htmlsi=NZHw9sfrUiYSvGru
Not defend her, just pointing this out: Himeno is motivated by jealousy for Makima (due to Aki's crush on her) filtered through drunk logic (since Makima feels something for Denji from Himeno's perspective).
Again not defending her. She was way too willing to make moves on Denji even was sober.
Not defending her either, but while she was sober she didn't know he was a minor. Doesn't excuse her actions while drunk tho since she found out then. I think she blacked out, but honestly she shouldn't be drinking if it leads her to do things like that. I don't think she's a groomer by definition since it wasn't premeditated, but it still would have been statutory r*pe.
@@shirendjorgee9320 I wanna say that, i'm pretty sure Himeno already knew denji's age before her drunken attempt to sleep with him. If I remember correctly, denji mentions that he thinks he's 16 at the dinner with the rest of the cast of characters.
EDIT: Yup i'm correct. This scene here literally has himeno sitting next to denji as he reveals to everyone that he's 16: ua-cam.com/video/GBmM4vqUOm0/v-deo.htmlsi=NZHw9sfrUiYSvGru
yeah, i watched the new The Boys episode with tristan. this was the only full episode i’ve ever watched of the boys (i’ve only seen clips of the show) and it has completely deterred me from watching the show unfortunately. i was very grossed out with everything that happened in that episode and how it was hardly even talked about after. the creators just completely disregarded what just happened to the main character and it made it feel even grosser. i know most of the boys is probably better than that episode but it was just unfortunate that it was the first full episode i watched because now i just don’t even want to watch any of it anymore 😭 i hope the boys does more with the trauma the character experienced in the future but based on how it was handled, i can’t be too sure. although, it’s nice to know that chainsaw man’s sexual scenes actually have impact on the story rather than just being gooner bait. W video.
yooo THANK YOU for bringing up that scene from the boys cause that shit irked the hell out of me ever since seeing it. Especially how instead of delving into how traumatizing something like that would be WHATSOVER Hughie just goes " nah I'm just sad about my dad actually". Now that I think about it, it could've played into making the shapeshifter twist showed later way more interesting too! (the boys fell of p hard imo).
Anywaysss. Great video in general, just came off your jjk recap video and looks like I'll have to subscribe, keep it up :]
(small not on 10:50, hasn't it always been like that? Life imitates art? seems natural to me)
Peole keep seeming to forget that Hughie was R'd too.
5:55-I can't believe you used the clip of Fry bootstrap paradoxing his bloodline
As a woman, i thank you for this kind of content as well.
I never find it funny when denji got SA from female characters. He would have severe PTSD and barely have wills to live already irl.
But if you are Denji IRL, please don't give up and try your best to get out of the hazardous situation. If you can find justice for yourself, please do.
Chainsawman is a very uncomfortable watch because of the scenes disguised as fanservice. Half the time, I'm hoping Denji just realizes what's happening and gets away...
The manga... well...
Crazy that you aren’t a bigger creator, I feel like I got in early on something great
Awesome video, this subject need to be talk about more.
I think how horny the manga is leads to a lot of the misunderstandings (specifically the between chapter page art that often has a "pin up poster" vibe).
There is a lot of fan servicy stuff in CSM that isn't part of the groomer thing which makes it harder for less attentive fans to see the difference.
I guess you're referring to chp43, as that's the only time I can remember (and find, besides the Quanxi opening) a sexual chapter cover, and that was just a visualization of Denji's thoughts.
I'm gonna need to reread the manga now, because i honestly didn't pick up on most of this and just dismissed it as, yknow. Anime fanservice + lol guys are pervy even as minors shtick. Couldn't quite get a read on how the mangaka wanted me to see it immediately, ykno?
@@nekuro5548 the reason is because you are not meant to see it immidiately, chainsawman is a great portrayal of a male victim as you see things at almost the same points that denji is able to see them, for example even though Makima's cruelty was very fucking clear in retrospect you only truly see it post Power's death
The music:🔥
The commentary:🔥
The editing:🔥
6:08 i am one of them and im getting what yourb saying you are the goat man
I think people forget that Himeno was blacked out, asks if they did anything, and is RELIEVED they didn't sleep together because she would have gone to JAIL.
Exactly why I never got the hype around Himeno and Makima, like yeah, they are objectively kinda hot, but also they give me goosebumps whenever they're in the same room as Denji. I mean good on Himeno for... not screwing a drunk minor? I guess. Way to do the bare minimum. But then she immediately agrees to get Denji (16) together with Makima (who she presumes is a human adult in a position of power (and is a bajillion times older than Denji anyways))
I just realized this is fucking ultrakill music
The problem is the cycle of wanting to do wrong that has been done to them. The internet is a worldwide invitation for people to do wrongs to those they deemed has wronged them.
This means you have an ether of both victims and perpetrators who are living even each other’s lives, ironically, for their own gain. And people find it achieving when money is so easily thrown around like it is freaking Robin Hood.
dennis the chainsaw menace
Great video but it's so damn hard to get by with the constant bleeping for the word sex.
This video was written incredibly well and discusses Denji's trauma with the attention deserved. However, I have one gripe and that's simply boiling down Himeno to "fuck it, why not?" She is ALSO a victim of her fucked up circumstances - a victim that is portrayed really well in terms of how traumatized individuals act out in incredibly unhealthy ways. She's watched her partners die time and time again, falls in love with her latest one, and watches him pine over a woman that she knows has vile undertones. Her response to all this? Seek any coping mechanism possible to drown out her fears. She turns to cigarettes and encourages others to smoke because devil hunting will kill you before smoking, binge drinks so she doesn't have to fully process her thoughts, masks her genuine worry behind shits and giggles, and gets protective over the one man she cares about while seeking the affection she's missing with meaningless sex with her co-workers. She is selfish and coping HARD because she doesn't see a way out. She is a good example of someone who tries to be sweet but doesn't stop her horrifying habits until it nearly culminates in the assault of minor. She's not vindictive - just incredibly broken and indulges in her extremely damaging habits. I just feel like you can't give Denji that same benefit of the doubt without also analyzing those around him. None of these characters are that black and white.
I will accept the problematicness with gusto and true love.
The crazy thing about EP 6 is that the depiction of Tek knight in the show is vastly inferior to the depiction of him in the comics, which itself is crazy cause the boys is a rare example of the source material being inferior to the adaptation. Tek knight in the comics is a rich guy who doesn't have v in his system. Instead he made a suit (Hes literally batman and iron man combined) he simply wanted to be a hero and he wanted to save people. He developed the tumor in his brain that caused him to fuck holes but he does not like wat is happening to himself and actively seeks out help and therapy. He almost assaulted his robin but fought off the urge and sent his robin away and cried about wat was happening. Compare that to the shows version and hes just a perverted masochistic racist with a penchant for devilish debauchery.
A dude on Twitter once Told me if the first thing that comes to my mind is grooming when I think of chainsawman I must be rtrdd
I Guess I am? 😐
What do you expect on twitter, honestly
@@ChronoCartographer true 🗿🥦
Is that the Ultrakill elevator misic
Another serie that made a good use of this topic is Oshi no Ko, yes, that manga that is not about incest but it looks like it is
(Spoilers of Chainsaw Man part 2)
I think that people exagerate chapter 167, and ignores the elephant on the room
Asa, she was forced to wank a man, how is that called? Yes, s3×uaI assault... i mean, she forced "themselve" to se×uaIIy assault a guy. Anyway, a common consecuence of the SA is the shame, not necessary for some "purity" reason, but the victims usually think "i resisted enough?", "people will believe on me?"
And, well, in Denji's eyes, Asa did that by her own will, she was so scared and disgusted that Yoru lost the control for a moment
Sadly, Asa is not the protagonist of her own part, i loved her as a main character
im going to continue reading part 2 since i got no interest in waiting for it to end
W omori music
Denji was orphaned as a small child, which makes the power dynamic between him and his boss even bigger. The guy is clueless about real life.
Denji always talks about the simple things he’s glad to have. That’s his real character, a humble guy that is too damaged to overthink things.
Also, at least in the manga, his strong desire for something is linked to his power. Makima artificially created a hypersexual desire to use his power
With the spoiler you should probably put a timestamp otherwise idk when it'll be spoiler free again 😅
I know this is a bit random but what if Thorfinn from vinland saga switch places or was in Denji shoes...would Thorfinn have made the same decisions as Denji 🤔? I'm not saying that Thorfinn is a perfect example on how not to be a victim. Hell just like Denji Thorfinn was also kinda manipulated by Askeladd. But Thorfinn was able to change and redeem himself for the better...I honestly hope Denji does the same. 😟👍 If Denji could turn his life around like Thorfinn it would honestly make me Kidda happy. But honestly if Thorfinn was in Denji shoes what choices and decisions would be make compared to Denji?🤔 I can't stop thinking about it!😅
Denji never had an education nor someone to teach him anything at all, ofc thorfinn would act differently. But I feel like most men would prolly fall for the hot girl putting them in weird situations too..
You mention that a lot of people ignore the context of Denji's breakdown in 166 when analyzing the events of 167. And while I think that is important, I feel like there's a few distinctions that must be made.
In chapter 166, Denji was on his way to a brothel to have sex with some random woman. Just as we've seen throughout most of the story, Denji was distracting himself with the goal of mindless sexual gratification with some random person that means nothing to him, and who he also would have meant nothing to. Denji desires intimacy, but since he's been deprived of it for so long, he looks for sex as a form of replacement. However, I don't think the events of 167 quite fall into the same category as the other sexual encounters we've seen throughout the story.
Asa was not some stranger. She's a girl Denji has feelings for and has some level of an emotional connection with (Aquarium Arc and Falling Devil Arc). Asa isn't a woman that is in a position of power over Denji nor has any intentions of manipulating him. Asa is the only true peer that Denji has had all throughout Part 2 and her feelings for him are genuine. Yes, it was technically Yoru that initiated the encounter, but her actions were a manifestation of Asa's desires (Yoru is a devil who has no filter). And from Denji's perspective, this was all Asa's doing.
The point that I'm trying to get at here is that chapter 167 didn't seem like a repeat of the other sexual encounters we've seen Denji in throughout the series. This wasn't an instance of Denji being taken advantage of, but instead, a very confusing and weird moment between 2 very confused and weird teenagers who have no real sexual experience. In the beginning, Denji was scared because he thought Asa (Yoru) was about to crush his balls, but you can see near the end of the chapter, Denji starts kissing her back. Instead of this being a fling with some random girl, it was an intimate moment between Denji and a girl that has mutual feelings towards him. Intimacy has always been what Denji truly desired.
Don't remember him asking to get a handy in an alleyway, she forced her hand down his pants. That's SA.
@@parzavaal5335 I feel like because there's been a long history of inappropriate, and even abusive, forms of sexual interactions being downplayed or even ignored by society, there's now been a bit of an overcorrection, where sometimes there's a hypervigilance in trying to identify some sexual encounter as either strictly bad or strictly good. There's a reason why I described the events of 167 as "confusing and weird". Because that's what it was for both parties.
For Denji, he's gone through hell and has lost everything in his life. Now, for this perspective, Asa is trying to cut off his dick for some reason and then she stops and then randomly starts kissing him. This is a girl that his likes, but her trying to crush his balls was super scary and he didn't even know how to feel because of everything else that was going on.
From Yoru's perspective, she's a devil that knows very little about human society or their customs. She explicitly tells this to Asa because that's the reason she allowed Asa to keep half of her brain because she wouldn't have been able to blend into human society otherwise. However, now that she is sharing Asa's body, Yoru also experiences her emotions. Originally, Yoru just saw Denji as an obstacle to her objective of fighting Chainsaw Man, which is why she put her hands down his pants to cut off his dick because she actually took Denji literally when he said that his dick was making him miserable (again, Yoru doesn't understand human emotions). However, when she got up close to Denji, all of Asa's emotions started to flow into her, and all she felt was a desire to kiss him, so that's what she did.
When we talk about SA, there's an aspect that's often forgotten about that makes it so horrible, which is the willingness of someone to knowingly break important social norms. Let's consider 2 different scenarios:
Scenario 1: There is a man walking down the street. He sees a woman bending over trying to pick up something she dropped. He then comes up behind her and slaps her rear area.
I assume you would agree with me that this is a clear example of SA, and most people would rightfully see that man as a disgusting person for that action
Scenario 2: In this scenario, everything plays out exactly the same as #1, but there's one small difference: instead of it being a man, the person that slaps the woman's rear is a 2 year old boy.
Now, some people may still consider this SA and some other people wouldn't. But I doubt that pretty much anyone would see that 2 year old boy as "disgusting" like they would with the man even though the actions are 1:1. Realistically, most people, including the woman, would probably see it as funny.
The reason for this, as I brought up earlier, is that when it comes to moral culpability, the person being aware that they are breaking an important social norm is a huge factor.
I bring all of this up because I feel like it’s easy to throw around labels and completely skip actually looking further into something and making judgements based on the context of the situation. Sure, we can say that SA occurred in the Scenario 2 that I brought up, but it’s completely worthless when it comes to judging how bad the situation actually was.
I think it’s fairly likely that Yoru is starting to develop feelings for Denji. And Denji pretty clearly likes Asa. The depiction of things in chapter 167 seemed much closer to a very confusing and awkward encounter with 2 teenagers, with no sexual experience and having no idea what to do with all the weird emotions they were feeling.
@@Alex_Johnson_ no offense, you just said a whole lot of nothing, I'm not blaming Asa, since it was literally the devil that did that, but even two people in love can still SA each other, if one of them is doing smth the other person didn't ask for, especially since Denji clearly stated he was tired of all the sexual shit clouding his mind.
I think the overcorrection for SA going unnoticed was the MeToo movement, which is already long gone.
Please oh please stop trying to pass this moment off as anything but something that shouldn't have happened, I'm fine with it in the story, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing for Denji, Asa, or their relationship.
Let me reiterate, Denji, after stating he didn't want to be horny anymore, gets a handjob he didn't ask for, from a girl he likes in a backalley. While she forced her mouth onto his. if that's not sexual assault I don't know what is, it sure sounds way worse than your clear definition of SA being a douchebag slapping a woman's ass doesn't it?
Yo you should watch FLCL
YO IM THE FIRST ONE HERE LETS GO!!!!!!!
Male's victimization is NOT on the table for discussion.
We are told to say "Yes Ma'am" and soldier on.
Ohh heeck yeeeaaaahh
Baller pfp
This is so relatable, now oil up
Ah a fellow orangepeanuts fan.
oh heck it's oh heck it's tristan
Oh heck, its tristan
Whar is my art : (
Chainsaw Man isn’t a good representation of Male victims since the author is a masochist. lol
If you want good representation read Oyasumi Punpun
Yeah... he genuinely likes controlling women like Makima.
That doesn't take away from the fact that Fujimoto does indeed handle these things properly though.
@@Novakain. are you caught up with the Manga?
@@cookiestrong8757 I am, and there hasn't been any issues with Denji's portrayal??
@@Novakain. Not really Denji’s portrayal specifically, but more the general tone of the manga. All of the main female characters have sexually assaulted Denji in some way, and in many cases, he’s portrayed as liking it
What's CSA? I'm a UA-cam viewer not a victims support specialist
Childhood sexual assault
it means child sexual abuse
@@roseludenberg881chainsaw assault victims
@@Magnificent-S type shi
Conclusion: Women are scary 😭😭😭
They can't overpower you, so they manipulate your feelings, terrifying stuff.
why is boris not in the thumbnail not cool vro
oh boy I bet you're mad for Hughie by now...
Youre being way too negative about The Boys, do you really need more than a single line if its delivered with acting that tells you exactly how heavy it lands?
I didnt think the episode made fun of SA, not to mention what happened to him was not nearly as bad as what happened to Annie...
The strangest part is that the men creating these sort of contents don’t even stand up for their own people. Unlike how we females will vocalise and talk about these issues, and provide help for each other, you men just refuse to help each other for some reason.
Are you serious do you not know how shallow and competitive women are with each other? Have you researched that.
Do you not see how men help each other at least ones that are not stuck in the idea that men cannot be this or worship women.
I agree with that SA on boys is over looked and should be talked about more but with chainsaw man and the boys I don’t think it should be talked negative about over what happen because it isn’t played off as a joke this stuff happens are we just supposed to not show this in media? I understand Dennis character and how he really wants a family not sex but csm story was never on the nose like that the whole story of csm Denji never even says that’s what he wants but as the reader we know
Oh so its the anime turning off my friends from csm, good to know I'll just recommend the manga then!
"If the roles were reversed" is such a smooth brain thing to say. Because they're not the same. Both are terrible but when a man or boy gets assaulted, other men and boys will say "I wish that was me"
And that gets Called out, it doesn't make the point any weaker or make them "not the same"
If we're using that argument, then we can talk about how women idolize actual serial killers or guys that treat them badly.
@@eagle162 of course it makes them not the same. Or we would react to them the exact same way. Smooth brain
@@Mavuika_Gyaru"smooth brain"
Seriously? Did you even pay attention to my comment, The majority of people react in the same way. Does the minority outweigh the majority in this case.
@@eagle162 that literally is irrelevant. Go to any post about a teacher graping a boy. Without fail there will be men saying how lucky the victim is. You can't say the same about serial unalivers and fanatic women, those you have to go out of your way to find in some forum. You are a smooth brain and you don't have any arguments
@@Mavuika_Gyaruoh really.
"Teacher Describes How Sexual Relationship With 15-Year-Old Student Began"
"NJ Teacher Allegedly Sexually Assaulted High School Student for Months"
One is 9 years old and you still have newer comments saying how disgusting it is.
The other one is 3 weeks old and you'll find far more people calling this out.
Also what about the woman who called this out as well along with men.