It's great because it's a very Klingon motivational speech, but it also shows that Ma'ah understands what Starfleet officers value, even if they're not his values. He sees Starfleet officers as being great warriors despite the fact that they'd rather pursue peaceful endeavors. Klingons fight for glory, but Starfleet officers at their best fight just as furiously for the promise of peace. In short, he is meeting Mariner where she is. Throughout the scene we also see her use Klingon words to help Ma'ah understand what she's trying to express, which reinforces what we've seen before of how she has a great respect for Klingon culture.
@Raguleader and then immediately afterwards he's surprised when she says "no we're not fighting, we're getting out of here and you can fight the jackasses that betrayed you" Like, dude. That's what the federation does. They find a point of commonality and then stretch that to a common end goal. Why are you surprised a starfleet officer is doing that after you put the wind back in her sails.
"To all Starfleet personnel: this is the captain. It is my sad duty to inform you that a member of the crew, Ensign Sito Jaxa has been lost in the line of duty. She was the finest example of a Starfleet officer and a young woman of remarkable courage and strength of character. Her loss will be deeply felt by all who knew her. Picard out." - Jean-Luc Picard, to the crew (on intercom)
Freeman: Beckett, sweetie, is everything alright… Beckett: it wasn’t supposed to be this way, we were gonna grow up and become star fleet legends. How? How could she do this to me? Freeman: I know the feeling, things just don’t work out the way you want them to, but that’s the way life works. Sito was a good officer, and I was proud that she found a friend in you. And if she were here right now she would tell you to keep going, your a fine officer Becky. Beckett: just go away mom, I want to be alone 😖
It was great that they had a connection between TNG Lower Decks episode and the show. I bet that Lavelle, Ogwa and Taurik will appear in the next eposode.
@@francescozenocchini4428IMO, they should eventually appear, if only to remember Sito and close the circle in a sense having the original lower deckers meet the current ones.
Sito’s death, along with the trauma of the Dominion War, utterly broke her. And of all people, I’m glad that it was a KLINGON that got through to her. A “warrior therapist”, one might say. Even so… we’ve been seeing the signs of just how broken Beckett Mariner truly was throughout the series, signs that she kept buried under her behavior for years. Until she couldn’t bury it anymore. And it makes me wonder just how Season 4 will conclude, especially with another person tied to Sito involved.
We all suspected Mariner was a Dominion war vet who had PTSD, it's been implied for so long, and it's great that we get a confirmation. But finally we get to see JUST HOW MUCH the war traumatized her. She lost people in that war, she watched people she cared about get ordered to their deaths...and that's not what she signed up for. She just wanted to explore and discover, instead she saw death and destruction and witnessed war crimes. No wonder she's so disillusioned. And the fact that she was friends with Sito was definitely a curveball. I've joked before that "Beckett has seen some shit," but damn. She really has been through the ringer, at such a young age. I love this show.
@@mcmewseni have a questioni, i am not a star trek fan but i like to Watch clips of this Series, who started the dominion war? Humans? Or they were the defender side
@@Peperosinnombre It's a bit complicated. Basically, the Dominion is a vast, powerful empire on the far side of the galaxy and they were totally uninterested in any peace treaty that didn't essentially allow them to dominate the Federation. Technically the Federation was the one who started the war, but it was pretty clear that the Dominion was going to invade them within a few weeks either way.
@Peperosinnombre Like the other guy said, it's complicated. On the one hand, the Federation unknowingly incurred on Dominion territory, getting their attention. The Dominion warned them to stay out of the Gamma Quadrant, and the Federation basically said "lol no." So the Dominion chose to invade and rule the Alpha Quadrant. And the war was brutal. So the Dominion was the aggressor in the Alpha Quadrant, was actively enslaving planets, and indeed needed to be stopped. But it could be argued that they might not have invaded if the Federation had just heeded their first warning. EDIT: and, as others have pointed out, that's not even including the BS the other Alpha Quadrant factions pulled. Some of those guys REALLY pissed the Dominion off.
@@Peperosinnombre Dominion war was a mess. Humans started exploring the area on the other side of the worm hole. The dominion saw the federation as a threat and began destroying federation ships "trespassing" in their territory without warning. While the federation pushed for peace a combined Romulus Cardasian task force attacked the dominion... Dominion spies then had the klingons attack the cardasians (in reperations) till they were uncovered by the federation. The cardasians made an alliance with the dominion and the dominion sent ships to liberate cardasian space from the klingons... and from there, the war started when the federation blocked the wormhole with a minefield. It was a runaway train of events... had the cardasian/romulans not attacked, had the cardasians not lost to the klingons, had... just so many places that could have delayed or stopped the war from happening.
I love how Mariner, little by little, confronts her demons over the seasons. "Guys, therapy works!" is one of my favorite season 1 lines. She's a strong woman who was broken by incredible trauma, and it's heartwarming to see her heal, bit by bit, in moments like this.
I remember back in season one when there was so much like "lol Mariner Sue" and even then it was like, not even close. And that was before we knew she was in her late 20s to early 30s, could easily have been a captain by now, and is a broken war veteran trying to piece her sense of self back together from unimaginable trauma, driven mainly by her sense of duty.
Speaking of Cerritos Therapy, I'd like to bring up something regarding things in it. It has been said that Counselor Dr. Migleemo's brand of "therapy" was virtually of No Help whatsoever with Mariner and her trauma. By such layman's terms, Migleemo may have actually Ruined Mariner's psyche. But if that is really and truly the case there, then My questions are: Why doesn't Mariner make saying Mean and Nasty things about Migleemo behind his back a hobby of hers if Migleemo doesn't Really care about her or her problems? Better question: Why didn't Mariner program into her Crisis Point tale a holo Migleemo in it to "kill off" in it? Why wasn't He the first to be tortured rather than T'ana? Especially if Migleemo really Did irk Mariner. I just don't fully understand Why Migleemo should be treated with the respect he deserves........
A fitting way to explain Mariner’s animosity toward ranking up. She loves starfleet but hates how it turns explorers and scientists into soldiers and spies. RIP Ensign Sito
As Picard tells Data in Redemption, Starfleet doesn't want officers who blindly follow orders. In that case it was more an expectation that they will make their own informed decision, based on facts that their superiors might not have access to. But the general notion applies all the same.
_"[Ensign Sito Jaxa] was the finest example of a Starfleet officer and a young woman of remarkable courage and strength of character. Her loss will be deeply felt by all who knew her."_ Including one Beckett Mariner, even after 11 years...
Hobson to Data: "You're a fellow officer and I respect that... but no one would suggest that a Klingon would make a good ship's counselor or that a Berellian could be an engineer. They're just not suited for those positions." Mr Hobson, I submit that Klingons make great counselors, helping their wounded comrades in arms to fight their innermost enemies, defeat them, so they can emerge from their caves of despair and mental battles stronger so they can fight again! There is no greater enemy than one's own fears, it takes a brave warrior to face them. You bring dishonour to Starfleet with your close-minded ways. Experience Bij!
@@Brasswatchman If someone's never met someone different except through hearsay and rumors, they tend to make rather silly assumptions about entire groups of people. Mix that with overconfidence and resentment, and boom, bigotry. Sometimes the different person can be right next door. Hobson probably stuck with Humans in the Academy and most of his assignments, so his ideas about other cultures are nothing but stereotypes.
This is a beautiful scene for those who have seen _Deep Space Nine._ The show explored the harsh reality of being an isolated frontier settlement stuck between three warring superpowers, and it challenged and questioned the Federation's ideals in ways that _Trek_ never had before. There was a big controversy (still ongoing) over whether this was an interesting change of pace, a humble acknowledgment that every ideal has its own flaws, or an outright betrayal of Starfleet's core philosophy. This conversation is an touching compromise for all sides; _DS9_ was indeed a terrible and trying period for the Federation, but the deeds of that time were done so that the ideals seen in TNG and elsewhere could continue to thrive, and it was those very ideals that were driving the men and women to fight and sacrifice. Sito's death was a bitter loss... but not a senseless one.
Im definatley in the second camp. The federation has flaws but the point is that its Trying to be better. It kept the utopian setting while injecting realism, utopia is a journey that everyone makes together, one with no end in sight or even desired.
Fantastic summarization and I agree. Scenes like this make it feel right that TNG and DS9 are part of one universe instead of in conflict. Great world (re-)building.
I remember one of the lines from Captain Sisko in DS9 that still resonates with me and I think sums up DS9's core philosophy well was, "It's easy to be a saint in paradise. But these people do not live in paradise. ...Out there, there are no saints - just people. Angry, scared, determined people."
Mariner began her career as a perfect cadet; talented, living the values, ready to make a difference. Then Sito - her closest friend, is murdered by Cardassians, so she tries to honour her memory by joining the Quito and heading to the front. She's thrown headfirst into the Dominion war; a conflict where death is everywhere and Federation values mean little. Mariner spends years fighting on distant, godforsaken worlds, witnessing the deaths of millions. No deus ex machina magic, no ready room reflection, just loss after loss after loss. Then the smoke suddenly clears and the Federation emerges victorious. Mariner and her surviving comrades are returned to the bosom of Starfleet. They find themselves surrounded by beaming, idealistic utopians who can't possibly fathom what they've been through and don't know how to help them. So she spends her days drinking and fighting and being insubordinate. Trying to muffle the screaming. It's not until she meets Boimler - a model ensign who perhaps reminds her of the cadet she once was, that she starts to hope again.
@@tyrant-den884 she's in her 30s. I'm 35. I was in Iraq 15 years ago. suffice to say we both know what we're talking about when those three fateful words are uttered.
@@Bluecatte I think someone ran the math that she'd have been 14 when the Dominion Wars broke out. But time IS actually very complicated in space, and 40K is the only series which wants to talk about that.
This is great, this really brings out why Beckett has been self sabotauging all her life. All her deflections all her claims, she's just, scared. She's scared of ending up like her friend and scared of being the one to order someone to their deaths like someone ordered Sito.
If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross... but it's not for the timid."
@@22espec That's not fair, Yes it's accurate but Beckette is right, Starfleet's not a military it isn't built for war specially no the kidn of war the Dominion waged. She did not suffer 'a little bloody nose'
@@Brasswatchman If you are of any rank you risk running into that very issue, It's not a super well known episode but to become a proper commander Deana troy had to do a holo-deck simulation where she had to order Georgi to his death to save the ship. Similarly Q isn't as much of a dick by the end as he was at first.
@@toysmostwanted I hope the targ survived. I'm good with him not joining the crew. He's been captain of his own ship. I'd hate to see him busted down to the lower decks after that. I WOULD like to see him be the means to some kind of deeper alliance with the Klingons. Definitely someone who could swap over to the federation on a temporary basis to see what it was like, and maybe take his new ideas back to the Klingons. Maybe he's a means to bringing Kronos into the federation eventually. Because Klingons did build ships and get to space. They can't all be killing each other all of the time, even in a warrior culture. I'd kind of like to see him rise amongust his own people.
@@jenniferhanses I remember way back on Deep Space 9, there was an episode with a Klingon lawyer who explained that he saw practicing the law as another form of combat. Realistically, there'd probably be some Klingons who didn't care about the honour and Klingon tradition at all. But its interesting to see how other professions could also fit within that culture- as they'd have to to have a functioning spacefaring society.
@@jenniferhansesthis is explained in enterprise. A klingon scientist laments his cutlure lack of respect to science and bulding and he sees this trill seeking as dangerous for the empire survival.
Is this the first time Beckett's willingly put on her second pin? Of her own accord? Every other officer pinned it onto her themselves. This Klingon HANDED it to her, and gave her the choice.
Yes, because it was her choice, he wasn't her superior officer. Starfleet has a hierarchy that is obeyed, even if it is not as harsh as in other organisations. What is still surprising to me is that cmdr.Ransom, of all people, studied her file and refused to give up on her, which all her superiors did, including her mother and father. He's either a waaay better being than we thought or he has feelings for her, or both. Ah, and dr.Meeglemo is not good at his job or just couldn't help Mariner, or she didn't confide in him. I doubt cmdr. Ransom knew of her friendship to Sito, but something in her file made him aware or at least suspect what she had suffered and tried to help constantly. Sometimes, people like Mariner need a push to get better. She was really grateful for his trust in the Moopsy episode ( eventually). I've always liked the klingon captain ( Klingon Boimler) and I hope his targ survived !
@@CS-bu7lo He doesn't have feelings for her. He sees her as a project of sorts. He knows she's capable of more..he sees that in her file. I think he believes Beckett's self-destructive tendencies may stem from being rebellious, as both her mom and dad are both high-ranking officers. He likely doesn't know about the trauma and fear she bottles up inside. Could be wrong on all of this, however.
@@ki5aok Well, he does know she had served during the Dominion War ,so he might suspect some of her traumas come from that, and it does, the war was brutal. He might not know about Sito or Angie ( killed by that shape shifter in front of her on DS9). Why I think he has feelings for her that he represses: in season 1, not long after their sickbay fight, Mariner bragged to visiting captain friend Ramsey that she had put a scorpion in his bed that nearly killed him. Ramsey was rightly shocked but Mariner laughed about it like it was a good joke. Did he punish her for this cruel joke ( attempted murder)?! Nope, he didn't do anything to her, despite not knowing who her parents were back then. When he got hit with strange energies ( while trying to save her, after she had disobeyed him, again), he read in her mind that she thought he was stupid. Did he punish her? No. He tried to eat the ship, changed the planet, made the moon disappear, but never touched her. When she comes around, calls him "Jack" and asks for favors ( like getting Boimler out of dangerous missions) he grants them for no reason at all. He always tries to impress her with his gym moves, she's a gym freak too 😃. She also bumps into him, drinks from his glass, in the end of season 3 she literally climbed on him, and he tolerated all that, despite being strong enough to stop her. Nobody is that forgiving! They are both physically attracted to each other and they try to hide it, I think he also developed some feelings along the way.
Lower decks is comedy focused but you can tell the show runners really loved star trek. The other "shows" however... nu as fuck, glad they all cancelled. Anyway I hope lower decks will continue its run for years to come.
It’s definitely a frontrunner. And animated media can tell stories that live action never could. Lower decks, not only has the flexibility to tell those stories, but has the same heart in the stories as any other Star Trek. It’s like mariner said: Starfleet may be an idea, but the people matter. Star of The Federation may not be perfect, but that’s where mariner and the characters that we know throughout all series come in. They are the extra measure.
You know what's utterly tragic? Sito Jaxa's death was in 2370. This episode, if each season is indeed a year on the Cerritos like the previous series are, is 2384. (EDIT: - It's actually 11/12 years because Lower Decks season 4 takes place in 2381/82! Thanks to the comments who helped correct that) Mariners been holding onto the memory of Sito for 14 years. 14 years of self destruction. 14 years of just pure self sabotage. 14 years of just wanting to stay stagnant when everyone knows that she's got greatness in her. That's depression. That's a deep deep DEEP depression
@@FayanoraOn the other hand, I think Beckett probably didn't want the help of a therapist. After all, a therapist can only be effective if the patient is cooperative. :-) DS9 had a few cases where patients refused to cooperate with therapists like O'Brien in "Hard Time", Garak in "Afterimage" and Nog in "It's Only a Paper Moon" so there was nothing the therapists (in the latter 2 cases Ezri) could do. :-)
It wasn't just seeto's death one of her first simons out of the academy with DS9 during the war ( We know this because she said she met Comander Worf when he was stationed there and he literally left the station the day after the war ENDED)
We've seen trauma and echoes of trauma in TNG (Capt. Maxwell, because of the first Federation-Cardassian War), it's only recently that talking about it and admitting to being hurt became acceptable. There were plenty of people (usually men) who thought this was pointless back then. Worf is kinda like society in this regard, he would have thought admitting to fear and trauma as weakness in TNG, but in Picard S3 he would most likely accept it.
Some people disliked the depiction of Star Fleet in Picard when it was so closed off. Turning their backs on the Romulans, banning technologies that might have saved children who suffered from illness out for fear for what it might mean. But although it was grim, I saw it as a sign of the Federation's Trauma. The Dominion War broke the Alpha Quadrant in the way that WWII shattered the global order. Klingon's wouldn't be able to fight a war like that for centuries. Cardassia underwent a near genocide at the hands of the Dominion and led to a cultural shift that probably killed their military and imperialistic tendencies for good. Romulas survived, only to be utterly destroyed a few years later. The Federation was the last one standing in the Alpha Quadrant, but they traded away their soul to win; making biological weapons, resorting to monstrous tactics out of sheer desperation. The Federation might have won the war, but I don't think it ever recovered. Its on the decline. Until the era we see in Discovery. When maybe, maybe it can re-emerge.
@@benlowe1701season 3 of Picard suggests that maybe, just maybe the Federation is trying to find that wandering muse again. The world had changed but that's the point. New tomorrows bring new mysteries, new undiscovered countries. Change with the times, but if your core values are truly future-proof, than they should always weather the adventure intact. If they don't, than evaluate what needed to change. This is what I felt was finally being touched on in Picard season 3. Hence the new Constitution III Enterprise-G.
And this cut goes EVEN DEEPER when you see that Captain Freeman, Rutherford, Shaxs, and Lieutenant Commander Billups are trying to find Nick Lorcano who was the leader of Nova Squadron back in TNG Season 5 Episode 19 “The First Duty” and take a WILD guess at who was all in Nova Squadron: Sito Jaxa and a certain future Traveler named Wesley Crusher!
It was implied in season one that the Cerritos, her mother's ship, was Mariner's last chance for staying in Starfleet. Her recovery, just like in real life, hasn't been in a straight line. For the first time we are seeing scars forming over her emotional wounds. Lower Decks is by far my favorite "new Trek" series.
I think people already hinted at her alcoholism (general coping mechanism), use of Bat’Leth (someone who would fight alongside Klingons, a major ally in Dominion War), and general disdain for authority (consider its status as a major war in Federation History) at her past in Dominion War.
Not to mention her sudden change in behavior. She went from being the top student in her class that everyone thought was gonna be the first to become captain to a rebel who was practically allergic to promotion. PTSD can cause drastic personality changes.
Don't forget that of all the people in the Cerritos, she has the most disdain and contempt for Lt. Steve "changelings aren't real, the dominion war never happened" Levy.
Don't forget that way back in episode two, its revealed that she's blood-bonded with a Klingon general with whom she "did some off the books grey ops stuff back in the day." Likely they worked on covert missions against the Dominion together, as the Federation and Klingons were allies in that war.
And I heard mariner, describe someone has” she wasn’t a spy”. It was like my brain stopped in its tracks and was like wait a minute I know who that is. I mean, I always knew they were going to bring a reference to the episode lower decks in the TV show lower decks but this this was behind. Wow.
That's because Beckett wants to help people. Not chase petty glory, status and recognition like her dumbass mother. I went into this series a bit on guard, expecting Rick and Morty-esque toilet humor or PC Woke deconstructive bullshit like Disney did to Star Wars. I was super-glad I was wrong! Beckett Mariner became my favorite Trek character! 😊
This is what i was talking about, I never understood why most of the other trek shows pretty much forget to even reference the dominion war, do you really expect me to believe that a war that killed hundreds of millions if billions of lives and everyone is going back as if nothing ever happened? That war should be the basis for a lot of stories going forward and i am glad finally we have been getting relevance scenarios with it both in picard s3 and now in lower decks.
Lower Decks has been surprisingly really, really good about tying into and referencing past Trek stories and events without feeling like "cameos" or mere fan service.
@@andrewnlarsen Which is weird because ST: Insurrection did. "We're taking a break from the Dominion War to investigate this thing Data got into..." So instead they talked about that time Romulus went kablooie, which is just as traumatic...
Sometimes what we hate most can also be found in ourselves to a degree. I know I am especially hard on myself for doing things I hate seeing other people do.
I also love how this gave Sito's character more development. We only got a single episode with her, but it feels right that we (and she) gets a little more.
I love this scene. It did a great job of showing the trauma that Mariner has been going through. Healing isn't a straight line. I love it when a show actually displays how healing doesn't happen once and have people move on.
Many if not all of us had guessed that it was related to the Dominion War. But it was secondary compared to the actual root cause which we did not see coming. Boy, this moment cut DEEP.
When T'lyn emotionally balanced her for a moment and she was shocked by how she felt spoke volumes. This wasn't just her personality but rather she's been unbalanced for a very long time. As someone on various medications for mental stuff that first morning walking up and feeling 'balanced' is a strange one. She was also very obsessed with the idea of Boimler's girlfriend on the Vancouver being some kind of shape shifter. She can spot a salt vampire at a glance. That's got to be some PTSD hyper vigilance.
@@AdaSoto... the Dominion did make extensive use of infiltration and subversion.... What if her friend's date wasn't the only time she had an enemy smiling at her in a Federation uniform?
@@bthsr7113 She was stationed on DS9. Bashir was replaced when he was being held in the prison camp. They could have been friends. There could have been others as well.
This was without a doubt my favorite episode of the season if not the series. To finally learn more about Beckett’s trauma and inner demons, not to mention tying into to multiple other Star Trek shows was brilliant. The writers did a fantastic job
The Khitomer alliance fought against the Dominion and won....But their cost was just too high. How many Starfleet officers are grieving decades later ? Mourning their partners and families, even their best friends? That's what made this scene so tearful. War was hell and Mariner knew it better than anyone.
'But their cost was just too high' - that's the story of man, and the story of war. What was the alternative? Let the Dominion win? Those who died defending everything the Federation stood for, gave their lives because they couldn't bear to live under a totalitarian entity like the Dominion. And those who survived, tragic as they may consider it, owe it to their fallen to honour their friends so their sacrifice is never forgotten! Self pity is unworthy of a soldier. You sign on to serve, and you accept the risks that come with it! If you can't handle that, you don't serve!
This is why Mariner isn't a Mary Sue. She might be an amazing fighter...but that's all she has. Buried under guilt, PTSD, fear, trauma and loss, she can barely function as a person. Her years in Starfleet have been a horror show...and now with friends she is starting to trust, she risks losing even more. Hells, Boimler DIED ALREADY! Makes me think she works so hard to be this badass fighter just to survive, giving up on her dreams to explore and learn. Sad, really.
I think Boimler is also wrong about their ages. Sito would have died about 14 years before this. This would make Mariner older than the other Lower Decks by probably a decade at least. Add in extra tricks she picked up during the war and she's absolutely going to be several skill levels higher despite being the same rank.
@@AdaSoto Someone did the math over on Reddit. Their conclusion was that Mariner is 31, while Boimler and the rest are in their late 20's, which seems about right to me.
So that's why Mariner never really care about getting promoted (or want one)to a rank starfleet officer like her friends Boimler, Tendi and Rutherford do because of what happen to her close friend from the past.
It also explains why she felt so bad for boimler in “Crisis point 2: Paradoxus”. Hearing his own clone die in such a random way reminded her of Sito’s death
Boimler had this exact conflict a few episodes ago too. Neither one of them want to have the authority to put other people's lives in danger but they're fine with putting their own in danger.
All I can tell you Mariner, is this: I will probably never know what kind of horrors you've seen, or what you've truly lost. But that right there, is precisely why someone like you, is so important.
Not only is it nice to see a Sito reference, but also to see that this particular tragic story didn't end where we thought it did. Even if Sito really is dead, her being an inspiration for Mariner (both back then and right now) gives her an enormous legacy.
It is scenes like this that reaffirm my belief that while Lower Decks is comedy and parody, it is also the most quintessential Star Trek series right now.
Exactly. It strikes a flawless balance of comedy/parody and being genuine Trek. You can believe its canonicity and status as a genuine Tek show, despite being a comedy/parody show. Its awesome.
I think of Star Trek as divided into three ages. The Golden Age was the Original Series and its continuations (the Animated Series, the first six movies, and parts of Generations). The Silver Age is TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, and the four TNG movies. The Bronze Age is the three JJ Abrams movies, Discovery, Picard, Short Treks, and Very Short Treks. (I don't know about Strange New Worlds yet, because I've only seen two episodes, with VERY different reactions to them. I also don't know about Prodigy. I tried to watch the first episode, but didn't finish it. I need to give it another chance.) I do not like the Bronze Age. But Lower Decks has astonished me by placing itself firmly in the Silver Age and singlehandedly keeping it alive. Then Picard season came along and gave the Silver Age a huge shot in the arm. I hated the first episode of Strange New Worlds, but after catching up on Lower Decks, I took a deep breath and watched the crossover episode, "Those Old Scientists." And I absolutely love it. Lower Decks has given me hope at a time when I thought the Star Trek I love was dead. I hope it continues for a long time.
@@MundaneGray the first episode of Strange New Worlds picks up where Discovery season 2 left the Enterprise off for obvious reasons, but the rest of the show feels like a return to a TNG and DS9-esque format. You should give it a chance. Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks are seen as the best new Treks. Prodigy is good too, despite being targeted at kids. Voyager fans like it a lot. But as far as like... adult/general audience modern Treks go, SNW and LD are the best.
@@StarRider587 I will definitely give them both another chance. My problem with Prodigy was that I kept waiting for anything recognizably Star Trek to show up, and I never saw it. If you had told me that it was a new animated Star Wars series, I would have had no trouble believing you. But I'll try again.
Possibly underclassman of Sito, Nic, and Wesley. If she knew Wes, she also knew what happened to him after he got held back a year for lying to the board of inquiry.
She would've needed to be a year behind Wesley and two behind Sito in order for Sito to graduate ahead of her. In English that means she was a first-year cadet in 2368 during the episode "The First Duty".
Also there are hints Mariner was one of the children on the Enterprise. Which is why she freaked out in a holo simulation of the Naked Now virus. She was mentored by Riker. Her mother is friends with him and Sonya Gomez. Wesley ghosting friends and family didn't help either I suspect.
I always expected that Mariner's trauma and attitude was due to something that happened during the Dominion War but I didn't think it had anything to do with before that. I never would have imagined it would connect to Sito Jaxa from the Next Generation episode Lower Decks.
I'd say it's both. It's likely something she might have been able to work through (for lack of better way of putting) without immediately fighting a war afterwards.
Beckett plays the reckless and hot-blooded badass but in reality she is afraid, afraid of not being enough for herself and of not being up to this life which is nothing but an immense, uncontrollable chaos. Sometimes fear can be the darkness in the sky obscuring the light of day and sometimes it is just a huge heavy chain wrapped around the body. Darkness comes and goes without always announcing the doom as the chain endures until the wearer is able to break it. Now maybe Beckett can break her chain and move forward through the chaos
She's afraid not only at the duty and responsibility of signing the potential death warrants of those under her command, but she's afraid that if SHE, with all her skills and experience isn't out in front in the action first, others would die on her watch. That's why she's a woman of action, and the first to throw down. If she was in the position of T'lyn in that planet where Boimler died, she'd probably mentally shut down.
honestly when it comes down to it, Klingons and humans are the most similar species, when it comes down to it both are warriors, both are willing to do what it takes to win, both have a in built need for honor and respect. Maybe that why we both have trouble getting along but also work amazing together.
Tbh I think any species in the ST universe has some characteristics shared by humans. In Star Trek Enterprise vulcan ambassador tells Admiral Forrest that humans are the only species that they cant defy, stubborn like Tellarites, proud like Andorians, driven by emotions by klingons only to confinend them suddenly by embracing logics. In fact vulcans are afraid of humans because we remind them of themselves. I think depending on the current direction of humanity you could find many similarities, positive and negative, between humans and all the other species. I mean, we could probably find many similarities between Romulans and humans, if we want.
@@Gashahn24Like the section 13 / Psi Corps / Beureau 31 / whatever it's called now? The urge to secret societies within secret societies? This may be what make Humans so back-slappingly self-righteous, too! ;-)
You know this I think can be summed up by something Boinler said in season 3: "we don't want to protect you from the Klingons or the Board we just want to explore and study quasarts but you know what, that's the right thing to do"
I know Wil said he was done with Trek, but how _sick_ (as in awesome) would it be if he appeared and just let her talk it all out with someone she went to classes with. "How did you get here, Wes?" "Long story. And I didn't want to waste a cool design."
I love Lower Decks. Love Love Love it. But this was the only time it made me cry. This episode was a synthesis of the entire show - piecing most of the hints about Mariner's backstory together beautifully, building on the TNG episode that GAVE THIS SHOW ITS NAME, and delivering it all through absolutely mesmerising vocal and animation performances. Fantastic.
Now this is a great example of great writing. In one scene you devle deeper into a character while connecting it to cannon events across all of star trek history and still feel genuine.
Mariner’s slow but steady growth across the four seasons has been spectacular. They could’ve rushed it but they chose to make each step meaningful. Hopefully there’s much more to come
Even her backsliding and regression is character development. It leads to further growth. Of course, there are those who hate it when she backslides back to what they call “Season 1 Mariner”, blind to the point of her entire character arc. She’s a broken woman, and growth is not a straight path. And I’m glad that Ma’ah was there to help her find clarity.
@AdamEspersona Indeed. PTSD doesn't just go away with an epiphany or two. It's a lifelong process. There's a lot of two steps forward, two steps back. Mariner's backsliding is a good example of that.
@@mcmewsen I'm glad that Lower Decks doesn't shy away from how accurate of a portrayal this is. Mariner is a prime example of how the war left everyone reeling. She just had it worse because of Sito's death exacerbating the trauma. This honestly makes me hopeful that she will reach out to the rest of her peers next season, knowing that they care and would help her. She just needs to ask for it. I could see Ransom in particular being understanding and even more supportive.
And so, we arrive at where the rubber meets the road with Mariner's whole problem. From the Season 1 Premiere, it was perfectly obvious that Mariner was someone who had seen too much to continue being a blind follower of Federation dogma. But as the series progressed, it became clearer and clearer that the root cause of all these issues was separation anxiety. Simply put, she's just lost too many people close to her and the thought of it ever happening again basically scares her to death. You know, it's been my observation that there are three main milestones to a Starfleet career: Your first ASSIGNMENT...your first PROMOTION...and your first COMMAND. Now, the third one basically takes care of itself, because by the time you get to that point, you SHOULD already have acquired all the tools necessary to excel in that position. The other two, however, are where you have to take a HARD look in the mirror and seriously ask yourself, "Am I REALLY up for this?". Your first assignment, because, "Guess what, Junior? You're not in the classroom anymore. This is the REAL THING". And your first promotion, because now you're in a position of authority and the question becomes about whether you're equipped to make decisions for people who, literally only DAYS ago, were the exact same rank as you. We've seen most of this through the eyes of Boimler's journey on the series. It took him until about midway through Season 2 before he came out the other side of the first milestone and could honestly answer the question in the affirmative. As for the second milestone, granted, he needed an emergency pep talk from T'Lyn to get him there, but he was still able to shrug his shoulders and say, "Yeah okay, I guess I AM up for this". Mariner, by contrast, is revealed here to be continuously stymied by the second milestone, because whenever SHE had to look in the mirror and ask the question, the constant dread of losing people she's close to forced her to consistently answer with a hard, "NO". But sadly, it goes even deeper than that. It's also the reason she never tried to patch things up with Jennifer after she got back to the Cerritos, because the problem there was that Mariner was always terrified that she was just going to lose her anyway. Hopefully, that's something else she's going to get called out on, preferably sooner than later. At least, that's just MY thinking on it.
Very well put, and I mostly agree with you. With Mariner, though, I suspect there's more to the story. When she says she doesn't want to be a general, I think she's talking from *experience.* I think she actually did have to send friends to die during the Dominion War and has had to live with that ever since.
@@Brasswatchman Well, I won't rule out anything. Still, like pretty much every other person in the Federation, Mariner has every right to feel bitter about the Dominion War, for what it cost her, especially since it was in the service of nothing but the Founders' raging inferiority complex and the fact that they were just straight-up terrified of every other living thing in the universe. Still, it wasn't just the war, either. Mariner's lost friends in a variety of other ways. The first example we got was in the Season 1 episode, "Cupid's Errant Arrow". The bottom line is, She's got to find a way to move past this and find at least SOME of the optimism she once had, back when she was just a cadet.
I'm really happy Ma'ah is alive. I don't know why, but I ship him and T'lyn. I feel like they're so different from the rest of their people they'd be perfect for each other. A Klingon who uses logic, and a Vulcan who uses her instincts. Their children would be unstoppable!❤
@@Brasswatchman Or it could cause a rip in the space/time continum and cause a chain reaction that could destroy the entire universe. Of course that would be a worse case scenario...the destruction could be fairly contained, perhaps limited to our own galaxy... ... ... ...5 points if you get this reference...
I just realized the Klingon echoed Boimler's insane rant at the Job Fair a season back: "Without Starfleet none of you would exist! We don't want to protect you from Klingons and Borg! We just want to study quasars! But you know what? It's the right thing to do!"
I seriously love how Beckett just booped a Klingon, I mean she WAS poking the beast for no real reason, despite the mental baggage she’s carrying I really think that this heart to heart was something she desperately needed, if only her mom could hire another therapist that has more off a warriors ways off live and offer therapy that could help people out with differently tailored trials and talks to clear the mind
It really shows her contrast with Locarno, the guy who kinda but doesn't really look all that like Tom Paris. Both of them found what they thought was a perfect life and a perfect time. And lost it. One stewed over their mistakes and tried to recapture the moment without changing. One made friends and tried to keep the energy, if not the exact moment alive.
"If yoy can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross... but it's not for the timid."
Until now I seriously thought Mariner did what she did just so she could avoid the added responsibilities of an Officer but this makes much more sense. I seriously believed she just wanted the easy ride in Star Fleet but now it’s out of the fear she could give orders that could end up sending her friends to their deaths.
The thing about Klingons, they may be a one hat species, BUT their way of reducing everything to it's most basic within their own idiom makes them a lot wiser than they are given credit for.
To be honest: I see at least Boimler, Beckett and Tendi as future Captains of a Federation Starship. Even if Tendi only joined Starfleet to explore and make scientific discoveries, she can be a strong leader, if her friends are in danger.
@@MundaneGray I wouldn't be surprised. If the producers could stop making them cursing, the show could be partly compared to the best Old Trek episodes
Huh, in a way she and boimler had the same fear. With mariner it was getting her friends killed on her orders, with boimler it was putting people at risk that he was only recently on the same level with. Both hate the idea of others getting hurt.
Boimler even ranted about this exact thing at that convention when he lost his shit. "WE DONT WANT TO CONSTANTLY SAVE YOUR SORRY ASSES. WE JUST WANT TO EXPLORE, AND DISCOVER, AND STUDY QUASARS." Now we see, Beckett wanted the exact same thing.
@@mcmewsen I do think that they do it for the reason boimler also said, it’s the right thing to do. Especially when it seems a chunk of the universe is at war with itself. I don’t see what else they could do.
@@redrasegardenIndeed, and that's where I think Mariner falters in her outlook. Yeah, war sucks, but no one else was stepping up to fight, so it needed to be done. It was ugly. It was awful. But like Boimler said, it was the right thing. She never understood what all that suffering and sacrifice was for, until Ma'ach paints it plainly: her friends died so she and everyone else could go back to exploring.
Wow. so That's why Beckett is so messed up. Now the Cardassian holodeck simulation, the Vindicta holonovel, it all makes sense. I figured she was traumatized by the Dominion War, but man, Sito Jaxa? Sh*t just got real!
The interesting thing about the Klingon's view on the Dominion War and Mariner's rebuttal is that it's pretty much just like what happened at the end of the war, where Captain Sisko and Admiral Ross were disgusted by Chancellor Martok's willingness to have a toast celebrating the death of countless Cardassians.
This scene is also a nice callback to when Boimler blew up while recruiting for starfleet. Starfleet staff join because they believe in the ideals of exploration and studying the stars. However, the universe being what it is they often find themselves in situations where they have to violently defend those ideals (for themselves or others) in ways that seem contradictory. It also harpers back to Tendi’s duality. She’s an uber science nerd and is happiest as a fluffball with her friends, but at the same time she was raised as the next head of one of the largest criminal empires period. She can throw down with the best of them is well versed in the underworld but she hates doing all of it. Starfleet represents freedom, exploration, and growth through shared adventures but any representation of ideals will have to go through harsh periods to continue to exist.
We need to give more credit to Ma’ah. He’s one of the more cerebral members of his species and one of the best people to understand Mariner’s pain in that situation. He rose to power because he was smart and not so battle hungry that it blinds him to what’s important. Had it been a different Klingon they probably would’ve killed each other.
Mariner being the eternal Ensign in order to not lose Sito's memory... As other have commented, there are numerous buried issues with her, and I hope this is the trajectory for her character to grow. As of now, she has been in self-inflicted arrested development for more than a decade. I really do think they actually managed to write a deep and interesting character with her.
"Honor your friend. Slay your enemies. Study your plants."
Words to live by!
I love how he looked bemused when he said that. 😂
As someone with a passing interest in the study of my home region's local flora, I shall take these words to heart
It's great because it's a very Klingon motivational speech, but it also shows that Ma'ah understands what Starfleet officers value, even if they're not his values. He sees Starfleet officers as being great warriors despite the fact that they'd rather pursue peaceful endeavors. Klingons fight for glory, but Starfleet officers at their best fight just as furiously for the promise of peace. In short, he is meeting Mariner where she is. Throughout the scene we also see her use Klingon words to help Ma'ah understand what she's trying to express, which reinforces what we've seen before of how she has a great respect for Klingon culture.
@Raguleader and then immediately afterwards he's surprised when she says "no we're not fighting, we're getting out of here and you can fight the jackasses that betrayed you"
Like, dude. That's what the federation does. They find a point of commonality and then stretch that to a common end goal. Why are you surprised a starfleet officer is doing that after you put the wind back in her sails.
I know he meant "Slayer your enemies" literally, but I think it works better metaphorically.
"To all Starfleet personnel: this is the captain. It is my sad duty to inform you that a member of the crew, Ensign Sito Jaxa has been lost in the line of duty. She was the finest example of a Starfleet officer and a young woman of remarkable courage and strength of character. Her loss will be deeply felt by all who knew her. Picard out."
- Jean-Luc Picard, to the crew (on intercom)
Freeman: Beckett, sweetie, is everything alright…
Beckett: it wasn’t supposed to be this way, we were gonna grow up and become star fleet legends. How? How could she do this to me?
Freeman: I know the feeling, things just don’t work out the way you want them to, but that’s the way life works. Sito was a good officer, and I was proud that she found a friend in you. And if she were here right now she would tell you to keep going, your a fine officer Becky.
Beckett: just go away mom, I want to be alone 😖
That's pretty good I read it in her voice.
It was great that they had a connection between TNG Lower Decks episode and the show.
I bet that Lavelle, Ogwa and Taurik will appear in the next eposode.
I remember watching the episode where she died
@@francescozenocchini4428IMO, they should eventually appear, if only to remember Sito and close the circle in a sense having the original lower deckers meet the current ones.
"We're not allies."
"Yes we are."
Humans in Trek in a nutshell.
Beckett rejects Ma'ah's reality and substitutes her own!
Reminds me of Guinen And Ro Lorans ”Too late” first meeting
"You're my friend now, we're having soft tacos later!"
"Hey look, a common goal to aim for, let's go!"
“I refuse your refusal!”
Perhaps Mariner using the Cardassian Prison Break as a holodeck workout has a lot more meaning to it now...
yep
Like as the Lower Deck series goes, things do fit more in hindsight
Despite this scene, I honestly still doubt it. But that’s me
Holy crap I missed this
Like that meranda class ship was her first camand so the ship was most likly destroy d
Sito’s death, along with the trauma of the Dominion War, utterly broke her. And of all people, I’m glad that it was a KLINGON that got through to her. A “warrior therapist”, one might say.
Even so… we’ve been seeing the signs of just how broken Beckett Mariner truly was throughout the series, signs that she kept buried under her behavior for years.
Until she couldn’t bury it anymore. And it makes me wonder just how Season 4 will conclude, especially with another person tied to Sito involved.
We all suspected Mariner was a Dominion war vet who had PTSD, it's been implied for so long, and it's great that we get a confirmation. But finally we get to see JUST HOW MUCH the war traumatized her. She lost people in that war, she watched people she cared about get ordered to their deaths...and that's not what she signed up for. She just wanted to explore and discover, instead she saw death and destruction and witnessed war crimes. No wonder she's so disillusioned.
And the fact that she was friends with Sito was definitely a curveball.
I've joked before that "Beckett has seen some shit," but damn. She really has been through the ringer, at such a young age.
I love this show.
@@mcmewseni have a questioni, i am not a star trek fan but i like to Watch clips of this Series, who started the dominion war? Humans? Or they were the defender side
@@Peperosinnombre It's a bit complicated. Basically, the Dominion is a vast, powerful empire on the far side of the galaxy and they were totally uninterested in any peace treaty that didn't essentially allow them to dominate the Federation. Technically the Federation was the one who started the war, but it was pretty clear that the Dominion was going to invade them within a few weeks either way.
@Peperosinnombre Like the other guy said, it's complicated. On the one hand, the Federation unknowingly incurred on Dominion territory, getting their attention. The Dominion warned them to stay out of the Gamma Quadrant, and the Federation basically said "lol no."
So the Dominion chose to invade and rule the Alpha Quadrant. And the war was brutal.
So the Dominion was the aggressor in the Alpha Quadrant, was actively enslaving planets, and indeed needed to be stopped. But it could be argued that they might not have invaded if the Federation had just heeded their first warning.
EDIT: and, as others have pointed out, that's not even including the BS the other Alpha Quadrant factions pulled. Some of those guys REALLY pissed the Dominion off.
@@Peperosinnombre Dominion war was a mess. Humans started exploring the area on the other side of the worm hole. The dominion saw the federation as a threat and began destroying federation ships "trespassing" in their territory without warning. While the federation pushed for peace a combined Romulus Cardasian task force attacked the dominion... Dominion spies then had the klingons attack the cardasians (in reperations) till they were uncovered by the federation.
The cardasians made an alliance with the dominion and the dominion sent ships to liberate cardasian space from the klingons... and from there, the war started when the federation blocked the wormhole with a minefield.
It was a runaway train of events... had the cardasian/romulans not attacked, had the cardasians not lost to the klingons, had... just so many places that could have delayed or stopped the war from happening.
I love how Mariner, little by little, confronts her demons over the seasons. "Guys, therapy works!" is one of my favorite season 1 lines. She's a strong woman who was broken by incredible trauma, and it's heartwarming to see her heal, bit by bit, in moments like this.
And it paid off big time in today's episode.
I remember back in season one when there was so much like "lol Mariner Sue" and even then it was like, not even close. And that was before we knew she was in her late 20s to early 30s, could easily have been a captain by now, and is a broken war veteran trying to piece her sense of self back together from unimaginable trauma, driven mainly by her sense of duty.
Speaking of Cerritos Therapy, I'd like to bring up something regarding things in it.
It has been said that Counselor Dr. Migleemo's brand of "therapy" was virtually of No Help whatsoever with Mariner and her trauma. By such layman's terms, Migleemo may have actually Ruined Mariner's psyche. But if that is really and truly the case there, then My questions are: Why doesn't Mariner make saying Mean and Nasty things about Migleemo behind his back a hobby of hers if Migleemo doesn't Really care about her or her problems? Better question: Why didn't Mariner program into her Crisis Point tale a holo Migleemo in it to "kill off" in it? Why wasn't He the first to be tortured rather than T'ana? Especially if Migleemo really Did irk Mariner.
I just don't fully understand Why Migleemo should be treated with the respect he deserves........
Crazy how the original lower decks episode from TNG ties into this series
Standard, usual Star Trek only plays with the ideas that would improve it enormously. That's why it has to copy other SF so much.
A fitting way to explain Mariner’s animosity toward ranking up. She loves starfleet but hates how it turns explorers and scientists into soldiers and spies. RIP Ensign Sito
Yes, almost like the original episode got lengthened into a series.
@@aeginsilverblood2070and then to have the Dominion War compound that trauma... Beckett has had it rough for over a decade now.
Crazy part would be the the writers knowing all of this and waiting for 4 seasons to connect the dots for the viewers.
"It's OK to call out BS." Pretty sure Worf effectively told Sito the same thing, if memory serves.
Defend yourself.
Knowing the test is unfair is the test.
As Picard tells Data in Redemption, Starfleet doesn't want officers who blindly follow orders. In that case it was more an expectation that they will make their own informed decision, based on facts that their superiors might not have access to. But the general notion applies all the same.
_"[Ensign Sito Jaxa] was the finest example of a Starfleet officer and a young woman of remarkable courage and strength of character. Her loss will be deeply felt by all who knew her."_
Including one Beckett Mariner, even after 11 years...
Hobson to Data: "You're a fellow officer and I respect that... but no one would suggest that a Klingon would make a good ship's counselor or that a Berellian could be an engineer. They're just not suited for those positions."
Mr Hobson, I submit that Klingons make great counselors, helping their wounded comrades in arms to fight their innermost enemies, defeat them, so they can emerge from their caves of despair and mental battles stronger so they can fight again! There is no greater enemy than one's own fears, it takes a brave warrior to face them. You bring dishonour to Starfleet with your close-minded ways. Experience Bij!
Preach. Hobson was racist af.
Give me that Berellian Engineer for LD Season 05!
@@Brasswatchman If someone's never met someone different except through hearsay and rumors, they tend to make rather silly assumptions about entire groups of people. Mix that with overconfidence and resentment, and boom, bigotry. Sometimes the different person can be right next door. Hobson probably stuck with Humans in the Academy and most of his assignments, so his ideas about other cultures are nothing but stereotypes.
Nailed it.
"There is no greater enemy than one's own fears."
"It takes a brave man to face them."
Worf and Martok
This is a beautiful scene for those who have seen _Deep Space Nine._
The show explored the harsh reality of being an isolated frontier settlement stuck between three warring superpowers, and it challenged and questioned the Federation's ideals in ways that _Trek_ never had before. There was a big controversy (still ongoing) over whether this was an interesting change of pace, a humble acknowledgment that every ideal has its own flaws, or an outright betrayal of Starfleet's core philosophy.
This conversation is an touching compromise for all sides; _DS9_ was indeed a terrible and trying period for the Federation, but the deeds of that time were done so that the ideals seen in TNG and elsewhere could continue to thrive, and it was those very ideals that were driving the men and women to fight and sacrifice. Sito's death was a bitter loss... but not a senseless one.
lives are bought and sold, but not needlessly spent. sometimes...
Im definatley in the second camp. The federation has flaws but the point is that its Trying to be better.
It kept the utopian setting while injecting realism, utopia is a journey that everyone makes together, one with no end in sight or even desired.
Fantastic summarization and I agree. Scenes like this make it feel right that TNG and DS9 are part of one universe instead of in conflict. Great world (re-)building.
I remember one of the lines from Captain Sisko in DS9 that still resonates with me and I think sums up DS9's core philosophy well was, "It's easy to be a saint in paradise. But these people do not live in paradise. ...Out there, there are no saints - just people. Angry, scared, determined people."
All I know is DS9 showed us what those Holodecks were really used for.
Mariner began her career as a perfect cadet; talented, living the values, ready to make a difference. Then Sito - her closest friend, is murdered by Cardassians, so she tries to honour her memory by joining the Quito and heading to the front. She's thrown headfirst into the Dominion war; a conflict where death is everywhere and Federation values mean little.
Mariner spends years fighting on distant, godforsaken worlds, witnessing the deaths of millions. No deus ex machina magic, no ready room reflection, just loss after loss after loss.
Then the smoke suddenly clears and the Federation emerges victorious. Mariner and her surviving comrades are returned to the bosom of Starfleet. They find themselves surrounded by beaming, idealistic utopians who can't possibly fathom what they've been through and don't know how to help them.
So she spends her days drinking and fighting and being insubordinate. Trying to muffle the screaming. It's not until she meets Boimler - a model ensign who perhaps reminds her of the cadet she once was, that she starts to hope again.
This is incredible analysis! Well done
That is really good, I wish we could see her ptsd more. Would make her a better and more interesting character.
So Mariner's arc is learning to enjoy root beer again, eh? (DS9 reference)
@@enavy04This analogy is a little too deep for most casual ST fans, but thanks.
Mariner: "I have GOT to protect this kid, otherwise the universe is going to destroy him!"
"No. You don't."
The words of a combat vet to the rookie soldier who still thinks in terms of glory and not the cost of glory.
A title no one as young as her should be able to claim.
@@tyrant-den884 Unfortunately, wars have always caused the young to become old quickly. If not physically, then mentally and emotionally.
@@tyrant-den884 she's in her 30s. I'm 35. I was in Iraq 15 years ago. suffice to say we both know what we're talking about when those three fateful words are uttered.
@@Bluecatte I think someone ran the math that she'd have been 14 when the Dominion Wars broke out.
But time IS actually very complicated in space, and 40K is the only series which wants to talk about that.
This is great, this really brings out why Beckett has been self sabotauging all her life. All her deflections all her claims, she's just, scared. She's scared of ending up like her friend and scared of being the one to order someone to their deaths like someone ordered Sito.
If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross... but it's not for the timid."
@@22espec That's not fair, Yes it's accurate but Beckette is right, Starfleet's not a military it isn't built for war specially no the kidn of war the Dominion waged. She did not suffer 'a little bloody nose'
@@KenshiImmortalWolfYeah, but Q would totes still tell her that. He's kinda a dick if you haven't noticed.
The someone who ordered Sito to her death, btw, was one Jean-Luc Picard.
@@Brasswatchman If you are of any rank you risk running into that very issue, It's not a super well known episode but to become a proper commander Deana troy had to do a holo-deck simulation where she had to order Georgi to his death to save the ship.
Similarly Q isn't as much of a dick by the end as he was at first.
Yay! I wanted this klingon back! He's not as beloved as T'Lynn was, but he seems too fun to waste.
I loved his shorts. Did the Targ survive? I really want him and the Targ to join the crew even temporarily.
@@toysmostwanted I hope the targ survived.
I'm good with him not joining the crew. He's been captain of his own ship. I'd hate to see him busted down to the lower decks after that.
I WOULD like to see him be the means to some kind of deeper alliance with the Klingons. Definitely someone who could swap over to the federation on a temporary basis to see what it was like, and maybe take his new ideas back to the Klingons.
Maybe he's a means to bringing Kronos into the federation eventually. Because Klingons did build ships and get to space. They can't all be killing each other all of the time, even in a warrior culture. I'd kind of like to see him rise amongust his own people.
@@jenniferhanses I remember way back on Deep Space 9, there was an episode with a Klingon lawyer who explained that he saw practicing the law as another form of combat. Realistically, there'd probably be some Klingons who didn't care about the honour and Klingon tradition at all. But its interesting to see how other professions could also fit within that culture- as they'd have to to have a functioning spacefaring society.
@@jenniferhansesthis is explained in enterprise. A klingon scientist laments his cutlure lack of respect to science and bulding and he sees this trill seeking as dangerous for the empire survival.
Yay! Ma’ah returned in Season 5!
Is this the first time Beckett's willingly put on her second pin? Of her own accord?
Every other officer pinned it onto her themselves. This Klingon HANDED it to her, and gave her the choice.
Yes, because it was her choice, he wasn't her superior officer. Starfleet has a hierarchy that is obeyed, even if it is not as harsh as in other organisations. What is still surprising to me is that cmdr.Ransom, of all people, studied her file and refused to give up on her, which all her superiors did, including her mother and father. He's either a waaay better being than we thought or he has feelings for her, or both. Ah, and dr.Meeglemo is not good at his job or just couldn't help Mariner, or she didn't confide in him. I doubt cmdr. Ransom knew of her friendship to Sito, but something in her file made him aware or at least suspect what she had suffered and tried to help constantly. Sometimes, people like Mariner need a push to get better. She was really grateful for his trust in the Moopsy episode ( eventually). I've always liked the klingon captain ( Klingon Boimler) and I hope his targ survived !
@@CS-bu7lo He doesn't have feelings for her. He sees her as a project of sorts. He knows she's capable of more..he sees that in her file. I think he believes Beckett's self-destructive tendencies may stem from being rebellious, as both her mom and dad are both high-ranking officers. He likely doesn't know about the trauma and fear she bottles up inside.
Could be wrong on all of this, however.
@@ki5aok Well, he does know she had served during the Dominion War ,so he might suspect some of her traumas come from that, and it does, the war was brutal. He might not know about Sito or Angie ( killed by that shape shifter in front of her on DS9). Why I think he has feelings for her that he represses: in season 1, not long after their sickbay fight, Mariner bragged to visiting captain friend Ramsey that she had put a scorpion in his bed that nearly killed him. Ramsey was rightly shocked but Mariner laughed about it like it was a good joke. Did he punish her for this cruel joke ( attempted murder)?! Nope, he didn't do anything to her, despite not knowing who her parents were back then. When he got hit with strange energies ( while trying to save her, after she had disobeyed him, again), he read in her mind that she thought he was stupid. Did he punish her? No. He tried to eat the ship, changed the planet, made the moon disappear, but never touched her. When she comes around, calls him "Jack" and asks for favors ( like getting Boimler out of dangerous missions) he grants them for no reason at all. He always tries to impress her with his gym moves, she's a gym freak too 😃. She also bumps into him, drinks from his glass, in the end of season 3 she literally climbed on him, and he tolerated all that, despite being strong enough to stop her. Nobody is that forgiving! They are both physically attracted to each other and they try to hide it, I think he also developed some feelings along the way.
I totally missed that but yea, this moment was huge for her character.
@@CS-bu7lo
I think he's just lazy, hates doing paperwork.
This honestly explains a lot. And I love the fact it ties back into Sito's death, which was honestly one of the most heart wrenching episodes of TNG
- an episode called 'Lower Decks', as many others have pointed out.
This is the most affecting, heartfelt and human scene I've so far seen in all of nuTrek...and it's from a cartoon of all things.
Lower decks is comedy focused but you can tell the show runners really loved star trek. The other "shows" however... nu as fuck, glad they all cancelled. Anyway I hope lower decks will continue its run for years to come.
You should pay more attention to La'an... but I do agree this is awesome
You got a problem with cartoons, pal?
It’s definitely a frontrunner. And animated media can tell stories that live action never could. Lower decks, not only has the flexibility to tell those stories, but has the same heart in the stories as any other Star Trek. It’s like mariner said: Starfleet may be an idea, but the people matter. Star of The Federation may not be perfect, but that’s where mariner and the characters that we know throughout all series come in. They are the extra measure.
This show might be mainly known for its comedy, but boy do they know how to hit the right emotions when they need to 😊
A good comedy knows when to give the jokes a break and sprinkle a touch of heartfelt drama. Keeps things from getting stale. Gotta love good writing!
Comedy equals tragedy plus time. A good comedy is one that allows for pauses, then growth
@@mcmewsen Which in my opinion is one reason "The Simpsons" and "Futurama", at least the early seasons, were fantastic TV-series. 🙂
Just like Final Space
You know what's utterly tragic? Sito Jaxa's death was in 2370. This episode, if each season is indeed a year on the Cerritos like the previous series are, is 2384.
(EDIT: - It's actually 11/12 years because Lower Decks season 4 takes place in 2381/82! Thanks to the comments who helped correct that)
Mariners been holding onto the memory of Sito for 14 years. 14 years of self destruction. 14 years of just pure self sabotage. 14 years of just wanting to stay stagnant when everyone knows that she's got greatness in her.
That's depression. That's a deep deep DEEP depression
Starfleet needs to hire some actually competent therapists. Nay, psychologists and psychiatrists.
Cause Migleemo🙄
@@FayanoraOn the other hand, I think Beckett probably didn't want the help of a therapist.
After all, a therapist can only be effective if the patient is cooperative. :-)
DS9 had a few cases where patients refused to cooperate with therapists like O'Brien in "Hard Time", Garak in "Afterimage" and Nog in "It's Only a Paper Moon" so there was nothing the therapists (in the latter 2 cases Ezri) could do. :-)
It wasn't just seeto's death one of her first simons out of the academy with DS9 during the war ( We know this because she said she met Comander Worf when he was stationed there and he literally left the station the day after the war ENDED)
Was sito on the odyssey? The galaxy class starship that got kamikazed
The Battle of Wolf 359 and The Dominion War broke Star Fleet. Nog, Picard, Shaw, Sisko, O'Brian, and Mariner, are a few examples of this.
We've seen trauma and echoes of trauma in TNG (Capt. Maxwell, because of the first Federation-Cardassian War), it's only recently that talking about it and admitting to being hurt became acceptable. There were plenty of people (usually men) who thought this was pointless back then. Worf is kinda like society in this regard, he would have thought admitting to fear and trauma as weakness in TNG, but in Picard S3 he would most likely accept it.
And the sad thing is they aren’t done yet since Mars is going to burn in four years.
Don't forget the Dipshit from Chicago. RIP Captain Shaw.
Some people disliked the depiction of Star Fleet in Picard when it was so closed off. Turning their backs on the Romulans, banning technologies that might have saved children who suffered from illness out for fear for what it might mean.
But although it was grim, I saw it as a sign of the Federation's Trauma. The Dominion War broke the Alpha Quadrant in the way that WWII shattered the global order. Klingon's wouldn't be able to fight a war like that for centuries. Cardassia underwent a near genocide at the hands of the Dominion and led to a cultural shift that probably killed their military and imperialistic tendencies for good. Romulas survived, only to be utterly destroyed a few years later. The Federation was the last one standing in the Alpha Quadrant, but they traded away their soul to win; making biological weapons, resorting to monstrous tactics out of sheer desperation.
The Federation might have won the war, but I don't think it ever recovered. Its on the decline. Until the era we see in Discovery. When maybe, maybe it can re-emerge.
@@benlowe1701season 3 of Picard suggests that maybe, just maybe the Federation is trying to find that wandering muse again. The world had changed but that's the point. New tomorrows bring new mysteries, new undiscovered countries. Change with the times, but if your core values are truly future-proof, than they should always weather the adventure intact. If they don't, than evaluate what needed to change. This is what I felt was finally being touched on in Picard season 3. Hence the new Constitution III Enterprise-G.
This is the PERFECT deep cut! The entire reason Mariner is who she is now is because of the ORIGINAL 'Lower Decks' episode of TNG!
Agreed. That was a spit take and a half of a revelation.
@@Loremastrful SEVERAL spit takes!
And this cut goes EVEN DEEPER when you see that Captain Freeman, Rutherford, Shaxs, and Lieutenant Commander Billups are trying to find Nick Lorcano who was the leader of Nova Squadron back in TNG Season 5 Episode 19 “The First Duty” and take a WILD guess at who was all in Nova Squadron: Sito Jaxa and a certain future Traveler named Wesley Crusher!
Tawny's performance is simply incredible in the scene and if she doesn't get nominated for an award, that would an absolute shame.
It was implied in season one that the Cerritos, her mother's ship, was Mariner's last chance for staying in Starfleet. Her recovery, just like in real life, hasn't been in a straight line. For the first time we are seeing scars forming over her emotional wounds. Lower Decks is by far my favorite "new Trek" series.
I think people already hinted at her alcoholism (general coping mechanism), use of Bat’Leth (someone who would fight alongside Klingons, a major ally in Dominion War), and general disdain for authority (consider its status as a major war in Federation History) at her past in Dominion War.
Not to mention her sudden change in behavior. She went from being the top student in her class that everyone thought was gonna be the first to become captain to a rebel who was practically allergic to promotion. PTSD can cause drastic personality changes.
Don't forget that of all the people in the Cerritos, she has the most disdain and contempt for Lt. Steve "changelings aren't real, the dominion war never happened" Levy.
Don't forget that way back in episode two, its revealed that she's blood-bonded with a Klingon general with whom she "did some off the books grey ops stuff back in the day." Likely they worked on covert missions against the Dominion together, as the Federation and Klingons were allies in that war.
GENIUS writing. Turning the TNG one-off episode into Mariner's backstory, _chef's kiss._
When she mentioned Sito it was like a gut punch from the past.
My first thought was, "...I miss her, too." Like she was a real life friend I'd lost.
And I heard mariner, describe someone has” she wasn’t a spy”. It was like my brain stopped in its tracks and was like wait a minute I know who that is. I mean, I always knew they were going to bring a reference to the episode lower decks in the TV show lower decks but this this was behind. Wow.
"There was no honor, just massacres." - That is also a chilling description of the Dominon war.
Anyone else notice that Mariner keeps unknowingly collecting people? Literally she is the next Kirk and Picard put in to one!
That's because Beckett wants to help people. Not chase petty glory, status and recognition like her dumbass mother.
I went into this series a bit on guard, expecting Rick and Morty-esque toilet humor or PC Woke deconstructive bullshit like Disney did to Star Wars. I was super-glad I was wrong! Beckett Mariner became my favorite Trek character! 😊
The great thing about her is that she genuinely wsnts to help people. She's got baggage but she'll have your back.
This is what i was talking about, I never understood why most of the other trek shows pretty much forget to even reference the dominion war, do you really expect me to believe that a war that killed hundreds of millions if billions of lives and everyone is going back as if nothing ever happened? That war should be the basis for a lot of stories going forward and i am glad finally we have been getting relevance scenarios with it both in picard s3 and now in lower decks.
Lower Decks has been surprisingly really, really good about tying into and referencing past Trek stories and events without feeling like "cameos" or mere fan service.
To be fair to VOY, its crew pretty much missed the whole thing while they were out in the Delta Quadrant.
The showrunners for season 1 of Star Trek Picard wanted to reference the Dominion War but were not allowed to.
@@andrewnlarsen Which is weird because ST: Insurrection did. "We're taking a break from the Dominion War to investigate this thing Data got into..."
So instead they talked about that time Romulus went kablooie, which is just as traumatic...
@@andrewnlarsen Why not? Any idea?
Mariner claims she is not a warrior but she has the heart of one. It took a contemporary to see her pain and help her heal.
Of course she's a frigging warrior. She may hate that part of herself sometimes, but it's very clearly there.
Sometimes what we hate most can also be found in ourselves to a degree. I know I am especially hard on myself for doing things I hate seeing other people do.
It always made sense mariner served in the dominion war, makes so much sense to why she hates… a lot of things
why she has such a fear of shapeshifters too
I also love how this gave Sito's character more development. We only got a single episode with her, but it feels right that we (and she) gets a little more.
We’ve all suspected for a while that Mariner had a part to play in the Dominion War, nice to finally see it be confirmed
3:06 onward: the entirety of federation-klingon relations in a nutshell.
I love this scene. It did a great job of showing the trauma that Mariner has been going through. Healing isn't a straight line. I love it when a show actually displays how healing doesn't happen once and have people move on.
That collective gasp when we all realized who she was talking about.
Wow looks like people were right about Mariner having PTSD
Many if not all of us had guessed that it was related to the Dominion War. But it was secondary compared to the actual root cause which we did not see coming. Boy, this moment cut DEEP.
When T'lyn emotionally balanced her for a moment and she was shocked by how she felt spoke volumes. This wasn't just her personality but rather she's been unbalanced for a very long time. As someone on various medications for mental stuff that first morning walking up and feeling 'balanced' is a strange one. She was also very obsessed with the idea of Boimler's girlfriend on the Vancouver being some kind of shape shifter. She can spot a salt vampire at a glance. That's got to be some PTSD hyper vigilance.
@@AdaSoto... the Dominion did make extensive use of infiltration and subversion....
What if her friend's date wasn't the only time she had an enemy smiling at her in a Federation uniform?
@@bthsr7113 She was stationed on DS9. Bashir was replaced when he was being held in the prison camp. They could have been friends. There could have been others as well.
This was without a doubt my favorite episode of the season if not the series. To finally learn more about Beckett’s trauma and inner demons, not to mention tying into to multiple other Star Trek shows was brilliant. The writers did a fantastic job
In all my days, I did not expect that deep a cut or for it to hit that hard. Calling all the way back to the OG Lower Decks episode.
The Khitomer alliance fought against the Dominion and won....But their cost was just too high. How many Starfleet officers are grieving decades later ? Mourning their partners and families, even their best friends? That's what made this scene so tearful. War was hell and Mariner knew it better than anyone.
'But their cost was just too high' - that's the story of man, and the story of war. What was the alternative? Let the Dominion win? Those who died defending everything the Federation stood for, gave their lives because they couldn't bear to live under a totalitarian entity like the Dominion. And those who survived, tragic as they may consider it, owe it to their fallen to honour their friends so their sacrifice is never forgotten!
Self pity is unworthy of a soldier. You sign on to serve, and you accept the risks that come with it! If you can't handle that, you don't serve!
Now take that thought and apply it to every war past and present, and realize that this was Star Trek teaching you another lesson.
Personaly I'd rather die defending the Federation than be a slave to the Founders.
In another point against the android racist from that tng episode, this only proves that Klingons would make AMAZING ships councillors
You mean Commander Hobson?
I ran a Star Trek Adventures campaign that had a Klingon ship’s counselor, it was amazing.
@@cannibalhalflinggaming8231I Need To Know EVERYTHING About That Campaign! It sounds amazing!
Only to people like Mariner who you have to beat straight answers out of.
Is this why mariner stages cardassian prison breaks on the holo deck.
Because it's leg day!
Incredible consistency if thats the case
Sito Jaxa was a girl full of insecurity but at the last moment of her life, she remained true to her convictions.
This is why Mariner isn't a Mary Sue. She might be an amazing fighter...but that's all she has. Buried under guilt, PTSD, fear, trauma and loss, she can barely function as a person. Her years in Starfleet have been a horror show...and now with friends she is starting to trust, she risks losing even more. Hells, Boimler DIED ALREADY! Makes me think she works so hard to be this badass fighter just to survive, giving up on her dreams to explore and learn. Sad, really.
I think Boimler is also wrong about their ages. Sito would have died about 14 years before this. This would make Mariner older than the other Lower Decks by probably a decade at least. Add in extra tricks she picked up during the war and she's absolutely going to be several skill levels higher despite being the same rank.
Beckett Mariner is Michael Burnham done right. A character with layers that is the way she is for real human reasons.
@@AdaSoto Someone did the math over on Reddit. Their conclusion was that Mariner is 31, while Boimler and the rest are in their late 20's, which seems about right to me.
@@AdaSoto probably not Rutherford since he was a cadet a decade ago. They hadn’t even switched from the TNG uniforms yet.
@@Hartzilla2007 After having his brain blown up, scrambled, and rebooted he might not know his real age.
So that's why Mariner never really care about getting promoted (or want one)to a rank starfleet officer like her friends Boimler, Tendi and Rutherford do because of what happen to her close friend from the past.
She is afraid of the responsibilities of failure. She does not want to be reasonable for leading people to their deaths.
It also explains why she felt so bad for boimler in “Crisis point 2: Paradoxus”. Hearing his own clone die in such a random way reminded her of Sito’s death
@@eshel9886 That might've been Mariner's first brush with death, but it certainly wasn't her last.
I can't get over how good the animation is getting on this show, all those subtle little head movements and expression shifts.
Boimler had this exact conflict a few episodes ago too. Neither one of them want to have the authority to put other people's lives in danger but they're fine with putting their own in danger.
All I can tell you Mariner, is this: I will probably never know what kind of horrors you've seen, or what you've truly lost. But that right there, is precisely why someone like you, is so important.
Not only is it nice to see a Sito reference, but also to see that this particular tragic story didn't end where we thought it did. Even if Sito really is dead, her being an inspiration for Mariner (both back then and right now) gives her an enormous legacy.
It is scenes like this that reaffirm my belief that while Lower Decks is comedy and parody, it is also the most quintessential Star Trek series right now.
Real talk I think its become the most Star Trek series of all the Modern Treks
Exactly. It strikes a flawless balance of comedy/parody and being genuine Trek. You can believe its canonicity and status as a genuine Tek show, despite being a comedy/parody show. Its awesome.
I think of Star Trek as divided into three ages. The Golden Age was the Original Series and its continuations (the Animated Series, the first six movies, and parts of Generations). The Silver Age is TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, and the four TNG movies. The Bronze Age is the three JJ Abrams movies, Discovery, Picard, Short Treks, and Very Short Treks. (I don't know about Strange New Worlds yet, because I've only seen two episodes, with VERY different reactions to them. I also don't know about Prodigy. I tried to watch the first episode, but didn't finish it. I need to give it another chance.)
I do not like the Bronze Age. But Lower Decks has astonished me by placing itself firmly in the Silver Age and singlehandedly keeping it alive. Then Picard season came along and gave the Silver Age a huge shot in the arm. I hated the first episode of Strange New Worlds, but after catching up on Lower Decks, I took a deep breath and watched the crossover episode, "Those Old Scientists." And I absolutely love it. Lower Decks has given me hope at a time when I thought the Star Trek I love was dead. I hope it continues for a long time.
@@MundaneGray the first episode of Strange New Worlds picks up where Discovery season 2 left the Enterprise off for obvious reasons, but the rest of the show feels like a return to a TNG and DS9-esque format. You should give it a chance. Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks are seen as the best new Treks.
Prodigy is good too, despite being targeted at kids. Voyager fans like it a lot. But as far as like... adult/general audience modern Treks go, SNW and LD are the best.
@@StarRider587 I will definitely give them both another chance. My problem with Prodigy was that I kept waiting for anything recognizably Star Trek to show up, and I never saw it. If you had told me that it was a new animated Star Wars series, I would have had no trouble believing you. But I'll try again.
Oh my god she was Sito's friend! that makes much more sense why she's been acting like this
Wait, that also means she was one of Wesley's classmates 🤯
Possibly underclassman of Sito, Nic, and Wesley. If she knew Wes, she also knew what happened to him after he got held back a year for lying to the board of inquiry.
She would've needed to be a year behind Wesley and two behind Sito in order for Sito to graduate ahead of her. In English that means she was a first-year cadet in 2368 during the episode "The First Duty".
Also there are hints Mariner was one of the children on the Enterprise. Which is why she freaked out in a holo simulation of the Naked Now virus. She was mentored by Riker. Her mother is friends with him and Sonya Gomez. Wesley ghosting friends and family didn't help either I suspect.
Would make sense to place her a year or so after Sito, if Beckett was modeling herself after Sito.
@@MMuraseofSandvichLatest episode shows you were spot on!
Ma’ah too honorable and smart to not go along with it. They’re best buddies now!
I always expected that Mariner's trauma and attitude was due to something that happened during the Dominion War but I didn't think it had anything to do with before that. I never would have imagined it would connect to Sito Jaxa from the Next Generation episode Lower Decks.
I'd say it's both.
It's likely something she might have been able to work through (for lack of better way of putting) without immediately fighting a war afterwards.
"Inner demons are the strongest of them all. It takes a *true warrior* to defeat them." --Klingon Therapist Proverb
I like how Mariner and Ma’ah befriend each other, even when he tries to deny it
Love how the auto subtitles change "murdered by Cardassians" into "murdered by KARDASHIANS" XD
Beckett plays the reckless and hot-blooded badass but in reality she is afraid, afraid of not being enough for herself and of not being up to this life which is nothing but an immense, uncontrollable chaos. Sometimes fear can be the darkness in the sky obscuring the light of day and sometimes it is just a huge heavy chain wrapped around the body. Darkness comes and goes without always announcing the doom as the chain endures until the wearer is able to break it. Now maybe Beckett can break her chain and move forward through the chaos
She's afraid not only at the duty and responsibility of signing the potential death warrants of those under her command, but she's afraid that if SHE, with all her skills and experience isn't out in front in the action first, others would die on her watch. That's why she's a woman of action, and the first to throw down. If she was in the position of T'lyn in that planet where Boimler died, she'd probably mentally shut down.
honestly when it comes down to it, Klingons and humans are the most similar species, when it comes down to it both are warriors, both are willing to do what it takes to win, both have a in built need for honor and respect. Maybe that why we both have trouble getting along but also work amazing together.
Tbh I think any species in the ST universe has some characteristics shared by humans. In Star Trek Enterprise vulcan ambassador tells Admiral Forrest that humans are the only species that they cant defy, stubborn like Tellarites, proud like Andorians, driven by emotions by klingons only to confinend them suddenly by embracing logics. In fact vulcans are afraid of humans because we remind them of themselves.
I think depending on the current direction of humanity you could find many similarities, positive and negative, between humans and all the other species. I mean, we could probably find many similarities between Romulans and humans, if we want.
@@Gashahn24Like the section 13 / Psi Corps / Beureau 31 / whatever it's called now? The urge to secret societies within secret societies? This may be what make Humans so back-slappingly self-righteous, too! ;-)
You know this I think can be summed up by something Boinler said in season 3: "we don't want to protect you from the Klingons or the Board we just want to explore and study quasarts but you know what, that's the right thing to do"
All I keep thinking after this scene is, "Mariner went to the academy with WESLEY!" And for some reason, it makes me think Wesley is the Koala.
I know Wil said he was done with Trek, but how _sick_ (as in awesome) would it be if he appeared and just let her talk it all out with someone she went to classes with.
"How did you get here, Wes?"
"Long story. And I didn't want to waste a cool design."
I love Lower Decks. Love Love Love it. But this was the only time it made me cry.
This episode was a synthesis of the entire show - piecing most of the hints about Mariner's backstory together beautifully, building on the TNG episode that GAVE THIS SHOW ITS NAME, and delivering it all through absolutely mesmerising vocal and animation performances. Fantastic.
Now this is a great example of great writing. In one scene you devle deeper into a character while connecting it to cannon events across all of star trek history and still feel genuine.
Mariner’s slow but steady growth across the four seasons has been spectacular. They could’ve rushed it but they chose to make each step meaningful. Hopefully there’s much more to come
Even her backsliding and regression is character development. It leads to further growth.
Of course, there are those who hate it when she backslides back to what they call “Season 1 Mariner”, blind to the point of her entire character arc.
She’s a broken woman, and growth is not a straight path. And I’m glad that Ma’ah was there to help her find clarity.
@AdamEspersona Indeed. PTSD doesn't just go away with an epiphany or two. It's a lifelong process. There's a lot of two steps forward, two steps back. Mariner's backsliding is a good example of that.
@@mcmewsen I'm glad that Lower Decks doesn't shy away from how accurate of a portrayal this is. Mariner is a prime example of how the war left everyone reeling.
She just had it worse because of Sito's death exacerbating the trauma.
This honestly makes me hopeful that she will reach out to the rest of her peers next season, knowing that they care and would help her. She just needs to ask for it.
I could see Ransom in particular being understanding and even more supportive.
Hey its the klingon from Wej Duj. Great to see him again!
And so, we arrive at where the rubber meets the road with Mariner's whole problem. From the Season 1 Premiere, it was perfectly obvious that Mariner was someone who had seen too much to continue being a blind follower of Federation dogma. But as the series progressed, it became clearer and clearer that the root cause of all these issues was separation anxiety. Simply put, she's just lost too many people close to her and the thought of it ever happening again basically scares her to death.
You know, it's been my observation that there are three main milestones to a Starfleet career: Your first ASSIGNMENT...your first PROMOTION...and your first COMMAND. Now, the third one basically takes care of itself, because by the time you get to that point, you SHOULD already have acquired all the tools necessary to excel in that position. The other two, however, are where you have to take a HARD look in the mirror and seriously ask yourself, "Am I REALLY up for this?". Your first assignment, because, "Guess what, Junior? You're not in the classroom anymore. This is the REAL THING". And your first promotion, because now you're in a position of authority and the question becomes about whether you're equipped to make decisions for people who, literally only DAYS ago, were the exact same rank as you.
We've seen most of this through the eyes of Boimler's journey on the series. It took him until about midway through Season 2 before he came out the other side of the first milestone and could honestly answer the question in the affirmative. As for the second milestone, granted, he needed an emergency pep talk from T'Lyn to get him there, but he was still able to shrug his shoulders and say, "Yeah okay, I guess I AM up for this".
Mariner, by contrast, is revealed here to be continuously stymied by the second milestone, because whenever SHE had to look in the mirror and ask the question, the constant dread of losing people she's close to forced her to consistently answer with a hard, "NO". But sadly, it goes even deeper than that. It's also the reason she never tried to patch things up with Jennifer after she got back to the Cerritos, because the problem there was that Mariner was always terrified that she was just going to lose her anyway. Hopefully, that's something else she's going to get called out on, preferably sooner than later.
At least, that's just MY thinking on it.
Very well put, and I mostly agree with you. With Mariner, though, I suspect there's more to the story. When she says she doesn't want to be a general, I think she's talking from *experience.* I think she actually did have to send friends to die during the Dominion War and has had to live with that ever since.
@@Brasswatchman Well, I won't rule out anything. Still, like pretty much every other person in the Federation, Mariner has every right to feel bitter about the Dominion War, for what it cost her, especially since it was in the service of nothing but the Founders' raging inferiority complex and the fact that they were just straight-up terrified of every other living thing in the universe.
Still, it wasn't just the war, either. Mariner's lost friends in a variety of other ways. The first example we got was in the Season 1 episode, "Cupid's Errant Arrow". The bottom line is, She's got to find a way to move past this and find at least SOME of the optimism she once had, back when she was just a cadet.
Well thats both a major fan theory confirmed and some great backstory added. Fantastic work.
I think this is my favorite scene in all of Star Trek.
Ma'ah is a wise man, and an honorable soul.
May he live long and find Glory.
Okay, I'm convinced. Time to get some Blu-ray sets and catch up.
I'm really happy Ma'ah is alive. I don't know why, but I ship him and T'lyn. I feel like they're so different from the rest of their people they'd be perfect for each other. A Klingon who uses logic, and a Vulcan who uses her instincts. Their children would be unstoppable!❤
So you ship Klingon Boimler and Vulcan Mariner? Huh. It'd certainly be interesting to see them try to bridge that cultural divide.
@@Brasswatchman Or it could cause a rip in the space/time continum and cause a chain reaction that could destroy the entire universe. Of course that would be a worse case scenario...the destruction could be fairly contained, perhaps limited to our own galaxy...
...
...
...5 points if you get this reference...
@@dmadd4643 Yes, yes, _Back to the Future,_ I'm familiar. 😁
I don't ship them, but I do want them to meet so as to see character dynamics.
More character development in less than 3 minutes than some other sci-fi shows had in entire seasons.
You can say "Discovery". It's allowed.
"We are NOT allies!"
"Yes, we are."
"We are NOT!"
Next scene...yes, you ARE!
Wow, so that's how it started.
Yep, it was Moopsy.
I just realized the Klingon echoed Boimler's insane rant at the Job Fair a season back: "Without Starfleet none of you would exist! We don't want to protect you from Klingons and Borg! We just want to study quasars! But you know what? It's the right thing to do!"
I seriously love how Beckett just booped a Klingon, I mean she WAS poking the beast for no real reason, despite the mental baggage she’s carrying I really think that this heart to heart was something she desperately needed, if only her mom could hire another therapist that has more off a warriors ways off live and offer therapy that could help people out with differently tailored trials and talks to clear the mind
Or really just not the stupid, useless bird who makes early Troi seem passable.
It really shows her contrast with Locarno, the guy who kinda but doesn't really look all that like Tom Paris. Both of them found what they thought was a perfect life and a perfect time. And lost it. One stewed over their mistakes and tried to recapture the moment without changing. One made friends and tried to keep the energy, if not the exact moment alive.
Im now head canoning that Mariner was in the planet that Nog lost his leg.
Its possible. I only recall the one soldier who made a necklace out of Jem Hadar 'White Vials' to actually leave alive, but it could be.
AR-558. It's an outer planetoid in the Chin'Toka system.
"If yoy can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross... but it's not for the timid."
And again, since we know that Q actually KNOWS Mariner, I say we need a 'Q' Lower Decks episode! John DeLancey would KILL the episode, I know it!
@@dmadd4643 Eh, I'm happy with the little Cameos we got
This moment was great for Mariner. I hope before the season ends, she'll find the strength to confide like this to her friends as well.
Until now I seriously thought Mariner did what she did just so she could avoid the added responsibilities of an Officer but this makes much more sense.
I seriously believed she just wanted the easy ride in Star Fleet but now it’s out of the fear she could give orders that could end up sending her friends to their deaths.
The thing about Klingons, they may be a one hat species, BUT their way of reducing everything to it's most basic within their own idiom makes them a lot wiser than they are given credit for.
Its nice to see a tie in episode for Nick Locarno and Ensign Sito.
I love when they put unexpected 'Oh fuck.. Oh no :( ' moments in comedies.
This Klingon should replace Dr. Migleemo as the therapist on the Cerritos
Some of Tawny Newsome's finest voice acting here...especially at 1:50
Absolutely.
I find it significant that Mariner intro'd herself by her first name.
It's a cute exchange between the two of them, and 100% honoring the spirit of Star Trek.
This whole lower decks, sito, nick/Paris link is SO EXCITING. this is what happens when Star Trek is written by people who like Star Trek
Best trek series since DS9. There i said it.
They even got a Starfleet character with a Klingon best friend
Holy crap man, "Star Trek Lower Decks" is amazing when it comes with lore.
This was very emotional and the flow and tone to keep it that way was really well done. I like Mariner a lot more now.
If anyone deserves to be captain, a damn good one I might add. It is Beckett Mariner.
To be honest: I see at least Boimler, Beckett and Tendi as future Captains of a Federation Starship. Even if Tendi only joined Starfleet to explore and make scientific discoveries, she can be a strong leader, if her friends are in danger.
@@Anthyrion And Rutherford is destined to be the greatest chief engineer since Miles O'Brien retired and became a professor at Starfleet Academy.
@@MundaneGray I wouldn't be surprised. If the producers could stop making them cursing, the show could be partly compared to the best Old Trek episodes
Huh, in a way she and boimler had the same fear. With mariner it was getting her friends killed on her orders, with boimler it was putting people at risk that he was only recently on the same level with. Both hate the idea of others getting hurt.
In fact, I am starting to see that the two have more in common than I ever thought before. That is ironic.
@@karlolson1363 i suppose it is
Boimler even ranted about this exact thing at that convention when he lost his shit.
"WE DONT WANT TO CONSTANTLY SAVE YOUR SORRY ASSES. WE JUST WANT TO EXPLORE, AND DISCOVER, AND STUDY QUASARS."
Now we see, Beckett wanted the exact same thing.
@@mcmewsen I do think that they do it for the reason boimler also said, it’s the right thing to do. Especially when it seems a chunk of the universe is at war with itself. I don’t see what else they could do.
@@redrasegardenIndeed, and that's where I think Mariner falters in her outlook. Yeah, war sucks, but no one else was stepping up to fight, so it needed to be done. It was ugly. It was awful. But like Boimler said, it was the right thing.
She never understood what all that suffering and sacrifice was for, until Ma'ach paints it plainly: her friends died so she and everyone else could go back to exploring.
Wow. so That's why Beckett is so messed up. Now the Cardassian holodeck simulation, the Vindicta holonovel, it all makes sense. I figured she was traumatized by the Dominion War, but man, Sito Jaxa? Sh*t just got real!
“Her loss will be deeply felt by all who knew her.”
How prophetically true those words would become just shy of 30 IRL years later.
The interesting thing about the Klingon's view on the Dominion War and Mariner's rebuttal is that it's pretty much just like what happened at the end of the war, where Captain Sisko and Admiral Ross were disgusted by Chancellor Martok's willingness to have a toast celebrating the death of countless Cardassians.
*Donkey:* …oh now we’re gettin’ somewhere!
Beckett: oh for the love of Pete!
This scene is also a nice callback to when Boimler blew up while recruiting for starfleet. Starfleet staff join because they believe in the ideals of exploration and studying the stars. However, the universe being what it is they often find themselves in situations where they have to violently defend those ideals (for themselves or others) in ways that seem contradictory. It also harpers back to Tendi’s duality. She’s an uber science nerd and is happiest as a fluffball with her friends, but at the same time she was raised as the next head of one of the largest criminal empires period. She can throw down with the best of them is well versed in the underworld but she hates doing all of it. Starfleet represents freedom, exploration, and growth through shared adventures but any representation of ideals will have to go through harsh periods to continue to exist.
We need to give more credit to Ma’ah. He’s one of the more cerebral members of his species and one of the best people to understand Mariner’s pain in that situation. He rose to power because he was smart and not so battle hungry that it blinds him to what’s important. Had it been a different Klingon they probably would’ve killed each other.
Husband material right there.
Give it a season or two too marinate. And maybe yes.
Hmm...
Yes. Yes I ship it. Qapla!
Well, she did fight him and he (sorta) waxed poetic at her so... Yeah, okay.
@@AdaSoto All she needs to do now is throw stuff at him.
Animated? Yes, but also one of the best scenes and bits of dialog in Trek history. All about being human
Mariner being the eternal Ensign in order to not lose Sito's memory... As other have commented, there are numerous buried issues with her, and I hope this is the trajectory for her character to grow. As of now, she has been in self-inflicted arrested development for more than a decade. I really do think they actually managed to write a deep and interesting character with her.