The sith code is not about being evil. It's about gaining power, and not being concerned about how that power is gained. This very often results in sith committing evil acts in the pursuit of power, but it does not require it.
Power always comes at a cost - either you pay it or others do - Sith prefer just to choose the latter but it also comes at their own expense soon enough - because that power is gnawing at their own form mercilesly
@krzosu yeah.. but in theory, if a sith believed he could benefit more from being benevolent, or at least not overtly destructive, to those around him.. there's nothing in the sith philosophy that would go against him being "good" to his friends or servants, employees, or whatever.
@@kevin9218 This is the thing - the sith believe only in themselves and that makes them paranoid - a paranoia so powerfull that makes them distrust anyone else that breeds hatred towards others - not compassion and that hatred makes them prone to be evil towards others. adn then there is the pull of the dark side itself towards taking shortcuts that usually invole gaining power at someone elses expense. So just because their code aint openly saying certain things it doesnt mean it doesnt involve these darker things. its an easy slippery slope for them to fall down to and keep on going.
Your statement is completely contradictory. If the Sith don't care about how they gain power, then the Sith code itself is about being evil. There is nothing altruistic about it or anything that promotes the interests of other individuals. It promotes the idea that a person should elevate their own interests above everyone and everything else at any cost, which makes it evil. The actions of its adherents tells you everything you need to know.
Stupendous Wave is the main Star Wars channel on youtube that is actually focusing on Star Wars. I like Theory but I cant remember last time I snuggled up with a hot cup of cocoa and devoured some good ol' lore videos on his channel. Amazing videos Stupendous, every damn time.
The Dark Side doesn’t allow empathy, but it can allow pragmatism. You will become self-serving, but you can still see your own benefits alongside the benefits of others.
Except pragmatism dictates why to share power when it can be all for you - thus making empathy a non factor. aka why benefit anyone but yourself - it wont help you and it will make your enemies stronger or worse it will turn your own minions agaisnt you if they get a sense they are strong enough to get away with it and if you share your power or knowledge this will make them stronger and stronger and might even turn them into outright competition for you or to the very least a nuisance or hinderance.
@ pragmatism often dictates the exact opposite. Benefiting and forming ties with others often directly rewards you in the long run (which even the average Rule of Two Sith acknowledges and makes use of) and nothing about not killing people is making your enemies stronger or turning your underlings against you. It just means that you don’t have those enemies to begin with. Your schizophrenic mindset is common among the Sith, but it is not the only way to go about things.
Before meeting the Rakata, the Sith Species used the Dark Side in a Harmonious Way. Vectivus coukd simply have been like that, as the Sith were only Truly Corrupted when Ajunta Pall's Sith came to them, as even the Rakata did not manage to Fully Corrupt them.
Vectevis must’ve had an unusually powerful mental fortitude to withstand the pull of the Dark yet accepted it as it is and used it as he saw fit. Not for pure evil, but mainly a source of knowledge similar to our Kreia or Plagueis tried to do in their times when alive.
Exar Kun had a way stronger mental fortitude as he withstanded to be confined for over 4000 years and easily corrupted manipulate and possess kyp durrun light years away from yavin4
Let's not forget Darth Marr, the Sith that fought against Valkorion, lost and became a Force Ghost. He was never redeemed, he lived and died a Sith and everyone respected him and the Force accepted him how he was. Darth Marr is THE best Sith ever. Vectivus being close second.
@@chrishale7480 It is impossible because anyone who draws their power from the Dark Side becomes a slave to it. The story of Vectivus was clearly a lie that was meant to convince Jacen that a person could use the Dark Side for altruistic reasons. We've seen it from Dooku and Anakin's examples that it just isn't possible. The Dark Side perverts the user's reasoning to the point where they become an agent of destruction.
I don't think it was lie, I believe Darth Vectivus utilized the Dark Side of the Force in a practical way as a ruthless Businessman. He might not of committed evil in the sense of causing wars, but I bet he made sure his Company was one the best while taking out all competition.
That’s my opinion as well. He was real but he did shady and ruthless stuff to make his company money and his friends and family? They likely weren’t the best people to begin with which is why his more ruthless tactics didn’t drive them away
Yes it's possible to embrace the Dark Side without being corrupted. The ancient Je'daii Order was able to use hardcore Dark Side abilities like Force Lightning and Alchemy. The Nightsisters are also a good example of using the Dark Side without loosing oneself. They had powers even the Sith thought unnatural but still maintained strong communal bonds with one another.
If he was real in the lore given, that is a debate in itself. I suspect Lumiya wasn't fully honest in her retelling and that Vectivus, if going with him being real, did, in fact, do some unsavory things, be it for research or self preservation just that Vectivus, more possible, horrid actions were low-key like Palpatine before becoming Emperor. The best lies and deceptions are those wrapped in truth. Lumiya goal was well known, and it was to hurt Luke and the New Republic. So her reasons in telling such stories are just for Jacen to fall. Vectivus probably made any who threaten those he loved disappear or have an unfortunate accident.
Darth Vectevis remind me the how the Sith (Kissai = Priestclass) probably used the dark Side, but he is just one of Legends (even when ones point to him they don't understand that he did't harm anyone).
I think people look at this story the wrong way. MOST Sith during the Rule of Two era didn't cause mass death and destruction; the whole point was staying low-profile. So that is not the standard for whether they were good or evil. Where Vectivus was different is that, unlike most Sith, he set reasonable goals. He did not need to dominate or control the galaxy, he just needed to make himself rich. And he did that. So like Palpatine as Emperor, he got what he wanted and was able to chill for years. And since he was during the Rule of Two and never got into a fight with the Jedi, that is why he was able to die peacefully.
Disagree. Darth Bane did really evil stuff while being lowprofile, the same with Tenebrous, even the beloved Dark Jedi Tyrannus did some shady stuff. Vectivus died surrounded by his friends and family. Every other Banite Sith died by their apprentice cunning and vengeance.
@@Scrubermensch tbh i think vectivus was a more grounded form of evil (assuming he was evil in the first place), whereas you had people like sidious blowing up planets he just utilized the darkside to ruthlessly build his company up not unlike many of the elites today
It is probably like what Palpatine told Anakin about Darth Plagueius. He told him the NICE parts of it. But he fails to mention that Plageuis did NOT have loved ones. Darth Vectivus, if he existed, probably had a Code. Even Bane and Zannah seem to have some rules they followed when they interacted with people.
I believe Vectivus was real, but I doubt that he wasn’t evil, and I doubt the circumstances of his death. Lumiya’s retelling of his story resembles Palpatine’s retelling of Plagueis’ story. Of Plagueis, Palpatine said “He could even save the ones he cared about from dying.” He cleverly omits that Plagueis didn’t care about anyone but himself. Lumiya said that Vectivus died surrounded by friends and family. But she might have omitted the state those friends and family were in… Vectivus’ signature ability, the Force Phantom, was a very complex ritual that involved draining the life essence from victims to conjure a spectre and project it across great distances. It wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility that Vectivus had imprisoned friends and family and drained their life essence to conjure phantoms. And after exhausting himself on the tiresome ritual, he collapsed and died, or fell unconscious and was killed by another hand.
Absolutely amazing holocron ! After Exar and Plagueis, Vectivus is my third favourite Sith Lord despite being shrouded in mysteries. Even though I believe he did exist since he created Force phantom, I like the idea that his story has been exaggerated to fit Lumaya’s plan. I’d gladly watch an episode on how Jacen became Darth Caedus !
The way I see it, regarding characters like Darth Vectivus, is that sometimes a person can spot a 'loophole' in the Dark Side. Instead of giving himself all in to the corruptive power of the Dark Side, he handled the use of his power in a more pragmatic, almost-business like sense. He didn't invest his interest in crushing his enemies, or seeking immortality. He used it to benefit himself in another sense, to feed his curiosity in the Force, and in a more material sense, his fortunes. However, in saying this, Vectivus' dabbling in the Dark Side would not be without its costs. To draw upon its power efficiently, the practitioner must make themselves more appealing to the Dark Side. It is highly unlikely that he would've been able to develop the Force Phantom technique without committing evil acts, or performing some form of personal sacrifice to deepen his connection or understanding of the Force. Force Phantom is a pretty advanced technique in itself, and not something one would pick up at Sith Lord orientation. It would be akin to Darth Sidious knowing essence transfer, in the earliest days of his training. Through my speculation, his evil efforts were downplayed, and written off in his mind as 'business expenses'. The occasional murder here and there, men who were formerly on his payroll and the like, when he operated the mines. Small, but considered 'acceptable' sacrifices before the Dark Side Nexus he discovered. These acts of betrayal and controlled destruction could give him the power he needed, and what would be required of him is the means to resist the negative, consequential effects that arise from tapping into this power. This would come in the form of calculated, self-imposed rules to which he must abide by. He also sought out a Sith teacher to set him down this path of learning, and it is likely, in tradition of the Rule of Two era Sith, he killed his master. I would find it confusing to see a Sith Lord take on a student who wouldn't try to prove themselves as being proficient in the Dark Side. This would be difficult to formulate in Bane's plan, as each successive Sith who takes up the role of 'master' is meant to surpass their teacher, and ultimately, usurp them. Vectivus' interests also don't seem to be tied to conquering the galaxy, but have the Dark Side serve himself on a different level. To be a Sith, it means to focus on personal development, to rein the Force in to serve them, instead of benefitting others out of compassion or desire of producing harmony and peace. Each theoretical 'offering' he might've done, to further his pursuits, would've been measured and balanced. Selfish, but not overindulgent.
Bogan is power and the quest for it. Becoming a beast of aggression and hatred doesn't speak much of the dark side as much as it speaks about the individual. The dark side never obliged cruelty or torture, it were always the practitioners that couldn't resist their own evil inside. Ask the Jee'Dai of Tython, they incorporated the dark side in their teachings and for thousands of years they stood proudly. The whole idea of Grandmaster Luke was to actually embrace the Force as a whole, respecting the Dark Side alongside the seducing call of Bogan while also bathing in the light of Ashlah and her peaceful nature.
@patrickramos9251 Power is just power, it's not evil, it has no will of its own, it's just the aspect of potency, being able to guide one's own fate. Most sentient beings go crazy with that freedom. When the force frees the practitioners from their chain, they go mad with that power and chain themselves in their own self indulgence.
@Scrubermensch there are two types of power. Control over the self, and control over the external. Power is control. Power is selfishness in almost all cases of the Sith. Power is selflessness in almost all cases of the jedi. So I ask again. What is the dark side really?
Let’s go heck of a video Stupendous hope your having an awesome January 2 and would love to see a video on Jacen’s turn to the dark side and May the force be with you always
Wow Stupendous! What a question, and what a video! Never considered it to be a fallacy, but I rethink it. "But even if one does no harm, does that necessarily mean that they are doing good?" The Bible answers, "For hardly would anyone die for a righteous man; though perhaps for a good man someone may dare to die."
I don't think it is the force that makes you corrupt. I think it just inspires the corrupt part with in oneself. One who is purely indifferent might never be corrupted.
@teodoraustin3505 mostly for his truly unique approach to learning about the Force. While most approached it from either a jedi or sith leaning, Jacen approached it objectively
He was probably real... but you have to keep in mind that he was supposedly a Rule of Two Sith, an era when the Sith were in hiding. Jason was living in an era of conflict and fell into the Anakin Trap (arrogant belief in his own superiority). Vectivus's ambitions were just different, most likely, as ambition for power can take innumerable forms based on the individual.
As I heard his tale he used the dark side to create a small business empire and controlled an entire sector as well. He did this applying caution and cunning when using the dark side. Plus he was quite greedy as well.
Strong possibility he wasn't real, but if he was, I'd suspect he was neutral at best. From what i can deduce, Vectivus didn't have the ambition that becomes obsession that most sith have that eventually corrupts them. Simply put he was content in the life he had already established before joining the sith, and only did so to satisfy his own curiosity and had no true loyalty to the order. As for if the sith can be good well depends on their will and of course their "point of view"
Hey stupendous, we’ve seen civilizations such as the rakatans use dark side force based technology and darth tenebrous planned on creating dark side super computers to make a perfect economy and to solve problems, but have there been cases of light side force based technology being used, if so, what are the benefits!
I've been waiting and watching with you for years now to see more of this Sith's story. Too bad they haven't really released anything else on him since. Super intriguing character.
Vectivus was mentioned in the Plagueis novel as well, which leads me to believe he was a sith during the rule of two. He would’ve had to have killed his master at some point. And if he died of natural causes and was surrounded by his loved ones, then how does the rule of 2 continue? It doesn’t make sense to me.
I'm an enthusiastic aspiring Loremaster and I commend your teachings, you are a true Loremaster. I believe Vectivus and Marr were the only Sith to never ever indulging in evil however they would still do cruel stuff that would serve a better purpose, they'd just be more rational and minimize people's unnecessary suffering.
I think that it may be a case like the "Tale of Darth Pleguis the Wise." It was based in truth, but the story was twisted to serve a temptor's purpose.
It is a lie if ever I heard of one in the Universe. There is never a time in the entirety of the history of the Sith that they are at peace considering they thrive in times of war and struggles, and the Dark Side is a very powerful corrupter of the individual who uses it, because no matter how noble you are you are forever changed from the person who has those hopes were.
Actually I heard of a story (Somewhere on the internet I could be wrong) where there were a small group of sith during the old republic that called themselves good sith or something linke that and they wouldnt use the sith for evil or harm but other sith when they learned of the group saw them as false sith and they wiped out the good sith.
@@ssjredbirdgrade5673those were basically: Too tame for Sith and too chaotic to be a Jedi, those who tried to wield the light while being Sith weren't good
I dunno, Vectivus is Legends Cannon, which also contains Darth Maar, a guy who is very obviously a Sith, and a dark side user, but despite this was able to become one with the force with his death at the hands of Valkorion. Its just absurdly rare for an individual to be a Sith, use the dark side, and not fall into a state of self destruction while lusting after power. But Absurdly rare doesn't mean impossible. If Maar wasn't in cannon, I'd probably say its a lie, but because he exists, its shows that Vectivus' tale could in fact be real. That said, the truth was probably streched a lot in what we know of him
I just finished re-reading the legacy of the force series. Watching Jacen fall to the darkside still breaks me. Please do a follow a deep dive on him. Everything from being taken care of by nannys (love you winter!) To the dark man.(Krayt.)
Didn't the Ancient Sith prior to their subjugation by the Second Schism Dark Jedi live in harmony with the Dark Side? I believe one of your videos covered this point.
I mean the dark side encourages evil, often chaotic evil tendencies but there's no reason you can't basically be lawful evil. Sure, according to the teachings of Plagueis, this may make you less attractive to the dark side of the force but it's not like you're exactly being a good guy either. So, you're not exactly connecting with the light or anything. It makes sense that a Sith lord would, when training a student, want to break someone to ensure they are without their own moral code and more malleable/receptive to the ways of the Sith. That said, as much as the dark side is a power that corrupts, it may not always be absolute. If a Sith can be fully redeemed to the light, then it stands to reason that similar changes in them and circumstances could have them be less evil but still evil. Learning from mistakes, that of one's self or others, could lead a Sith to consider restraint in some situations. A Sith being able to fall in love and not being cut off from the dark side, as a result, or loving one's family kinds of plays into this. People can be monsters to some and yet kind to others. Perhaps some may see value in such mercy, seeing not love but a code that views the conquered as not those to make suffer but as tools that require some care for proper use. There are many direction you can take this. While it is possible that Vectivis was a moral man, as a Sith lord, I'm not convinced that he was like this during his training. As his master would not allow that. I'm convinced that, if this is not a myth or lie, that his morality was something that was regained when he was free of the chains from his master. It is said that the Sith species' culture was not as destructive as what they would learn fro mthe dark Jedi, even if they did worship the dark side. Maybe they were like this, a form of lawful evil. If his teacher was the dark side itself, that's where this is interesting. Presumably, the Sith species would have started out in a similar way. I get the feeling that his answer would be something like. "Well yeah, by that logic the force is evil and so is your own body. Some kill with the force and some kill with their own hands. It's evil when those idiots it but not when used properly."
MORE ON JACEN AND JAINA SOLO AND BEN SKYWALKER!!! In these times, I think more would appreciate these stories. It IS possible to be evil and not be overcome by it, it's just a matter of self control. This is just a concept that many either forget or ignore.
Given what Jacen has to do later to complete his Sith training - that is to say murder somebody close to him - it speaks to the fact that Vectivus is a lie. Even in the material in which he was introduced. He couldn't have been a Sith Lord without murdering at least two people. Somebody he loved and cared for and his master. That does not mean that he wasn't evil. Just because he had a "code" doesn't change that anymore than it does for any example of the trope "Even Evil Has Standards."
The question in and of itself is interesting. This is just me but I think a very very small handful of people can use the dark side without being solely corrupted by it. But we also have to think about other factors too. From what I understand Darth Vectivus was in his later years when he went looking for the Sith. So let's be charitable and say he was in his 40s We don't know if he had a wife or children if he did those people might have kept him very much rooted as a person. There's also his ethics in business from what I understand his sith Holocron Didn't have a lot of dark side techniques in it. It talked mostly about business and how to conduct one self
Right on. Anyone with a brain 🧠 stays out of politics. Best to start own company to help the needy or whatever cause. Promote your passions for the greater good without the corruption of the Senate.😅
I really enjoy your interpretations of the Star Wars universe, it's very in-depth, fills in the gaps between the gaps very well. That's what makes Star Wars so cool hey? Every person can research the in betweens of every part of Star Wars and discover something that adds to it and becomes....part...of..it if that makes any sense? Like it's the perfect depiction of good verses evil, Anikans fall to the dark side and the transformation into Darth Vader..but the force...so good yet so evil. But my favourite is the gray Jedi or??? Gray Sith like Revan, someone who can use the dark side with out losing them selves to the dark side completely...good stuff, love Star Wars...
Imho, the dog eat dog mentality of the Sith, resonated well with Darth Vectivus' life as a shrewd businessman. While he may have "Did no evil" is because he was smart enough to know that he was in no position to carry out the Grand Plan, himself.
When Dooku and Yoda crossed paths during TCW series, Dooku very clearly tells Yoda that it was too late for him to turn back when Yoda attempted to convert him back to the Light Side. The fact that Dooku was mostly seen without the trademark yellow eyes doesn't mean he wasn't in deep. He didn't thrive on hate like other darksiders did, but he was just as deep as Vader was by the time of the OT.
Could he have had a neutral stance cos of the jedi of that era? Maybe he was just progressing the Sith plan from afar and his role as Sith Lord was to amass resources for future Lords of the Sith. Appreciate what u do Wave , may the force be with u always.
Obviously do a video on Jason’s fall to the darkside please stupendous Knowledge isn’t evil but the way said knowledge is used by one can be good or evil. This like anything is open to interpretation.
Technical, yes, it's possible to use the dark side and not be corrected by, in fact, we know both Revan and luke as a few other jedi and sith in legends have done it but it's extremely hard and dangerous especially sense it can drive you insane
Star wars anthropology, the investigation into star wars, I bet you play alot of role play games?? Lol very good anthropology but..indepth, good explanation and theory
For the Sith to stay hidden for a millenia, they must have known how to resist going on rampages. I imagine most Sith were not Palpatine, but gathered power on a smaller scale. I think he likely existed, but Lumiya twisted the story to please herself, leaving out any unpleasant bits. Jacen was still dumb as brick in this series. Lumiya lures him with the promise of not losing his family, and them almost immediately decides he needs to kill one of them based on a prophecy she introduces (probably wrote) and interprets as she pleases. ..and Jacen never questions it.
A good deal of the question comes down to a paradigm. The Dark Side means different things depending on which era you're in. In SW:tOR, it's possible to make entirely "Light Side" decisions as a Sith Warrior or Inquisitor. However, you continue to use Sith methods and practices. Additionally, non-Force sensatives also gain Light and Dark Side scores, which could be considered meaningless for them. The Dark Side in this era is arguably tilted towards rage, anger, fear, and other negative emotions. But a playthrough where a Sith Warrior takes a Light Side Jedi as a companion sees a gradual emotionlessness come over the padawan. Indeed, her goal seems to almost sound like becoming one of Star Trek's Vulcans. From this, one can infer that the struggle isn't good versus evil, but Lawful versus Chaotic. I mean this in a D&D context, where Lawful approaches are team-oriented, and Chaotic ones focus on individuals. In "modern day," Vectivus is one of the few Dark Side users who (assuming no deception) could be considered morally good, or at least neutral. Additionally, love and hope are encouraged among the Jedi, something that might be seen as attachment in earlier eras. I'd say the nature of the Force itself shifted over the Millennia. While the original Sith species and early Dark Jedi were less susceptible to corruption, that became more difficult over time. Maybe the approach of the Sith themselves has become the problem? At least along the Banite lineage. Other Force traditions exist, such as the Nightsisters. Perhaps it's a matter of riding the Dark Side while not letting it ride you. Currently, I play a Sith from 4,000 BBY in a D&D game with a Jedi from 1 ABY (Planescape-style shenanigans going on). We've managed to team up, and my Chaotic Good Sith is horrifed to know what's happened to the galaxy and the Sith Order, now that the Jedi trusts him enough to tell him. Said Jedi is Lawful Neutral. Characters like Darth Marr (who is arguably Lawful Evil) might challenge my idea with their very existence. I've rationalized it by saying Dark Side users have something of a "Beast," a la Vampire: the Masquerade. The DM has talked about giving me Self-control rolls to lose myself, but with greater power as a potential reward. Meanwhile, I continue to play the character as a multiclassed Mystic/Barbarian. So in the end, I think a lot of it comes down to interpretation of what the Sides each stand for, and if they have significant overlap.
Would love your opinion/thought process regarding the conceptual idea of a force related order that doesn’t require a doctrine for its members too follow. I’ve talked with the others and it’s a fairly more in depth thought built off the idea for a grey Jedi/3rd force user order and its implications if a character followed the ideology of “Don’t try to understand the force instead move with it” and created an order with that doctrine
The Jedi were aware of other dark side Force users societies across the galaxy, but there was no reason to interact with them because they kept it to themselves, and we're no a threat to the galaxy. Jedi had Jedi sentinels and Jedi shadows stationed in some planets. It is canon by the way. Those who decided to create chaos on regions and started to invade planets, those the Jedi got involved to deal with them.
Vectivis seems a lot like plageus I think revan is proof that the dark side can be weilded without corruption Malgus also remained true to his character It makes sense that a business man and scholar would be pragmatic enough to apply the dark side without being corrupted
He was real and I think he was able to use the Darkside in a way that did no evil. Qui Gon Jinn advocated for following the living force. The force told Qui Gon to free Anakin from slavery and he did so using the force in a way that was very unlike a Jedi. He used the force to cheat allowing him to win Anakin's freedom, which was the will of the force. In this example, I think Jinn "did no evil" because he was acting in accordance with the force which is ALWAYS trying to balance itself. Sure he used the force in a way that Jedi would frown upon, but the Jedi forget their their purpose was to serve the force, NOT the Republic. I think the darkside could be used in a similar manner. It is simply the other side of the same coin, which used with control and moderation is a tool that CAN be used to help bring balance to the force, if the force wills it to be so.
The thing about Vectivus is that, he's not that good when you break down, sure he might have just learned the dark for curiosity but he had to kill at least his master plus if he took an apprentice then he basically continued a cycle
@@Eric6761 depends on perspective. Is killing someone in self-defense evil? Who goes to say that his master decided to kill him to train another apprentice and Vectivious killed his master in self-defense? Would he be considered evil? Taking an apprentice isn't an evil act either. Just because you're Sith doesn't automatically mean you're evil. Actions, intent, and circumstance determine if you're evil. Being a Sith is a title not a moral designation.
the first part of the problem is the jedi who view things as black and white and the fact the sith are the opposite side of the jedi coin, using the dark side and not being corrupted is possible but being a sith has its own set of rules that encourage a corrupting point of view. i would say the jedi corrupt the force just as much as the sith one covers the canvas in black the other white, but there is a rainbow of colors to paint with that those 2 groups ignore. not corrupting the force is more akin to going with the flow while not giving into a dogmatic view or your own desires, rather like trying to be a well rounded person in life in general and applying that to the use of the force.
History into each character, better understandings of the force, the star wars galaxy, the ships, weapons, I like knowing about the workings of the light sabre the history of the Kyber crystal how they power the sabre & how it was fist used as like a peace keepers weapon but then fully modded out for combat use by the Sith and the Clone wars, like Darth Mauls type of staff sabre and Anikans type of hilt, which Yoda didn't like because, it was a combat type hilt, but...Anikan showed signs of a Sith even from the beginning because of the type of light sabres he liked to build, his love for...combat, chopping up droids stuff like that..his thirst for action, is a sign of a Sith, same as Luke, always looking towards the horizon...adventure. Obi-Wan is the perfect depiction of what a Jedi should be I reckon...
They were only evil because the jedi said they were evil Because of the way they use the force to take control... Anyone can say anyone's evil and everybody else could be over the good guys that doesn't mean you are
IF Darth Vectivous was as he is described, then at the very least he had to have killed at least one person, his Master and the previous Lord of the Sith.
maybe in future vid, compare if Luke's New Jedi Order (Legends) was better than the Old Jedi Order. B/c I noticed that Luke's Order had more Dark Jedi spawned much more rapidly in comparison to the Old Order
I've always felt that in order to reach true peace and true "balance" one must accept both sides. Anakin, Luke AND Revan are examples of what the force truly wants, balance the sith and the jedi are not the only worshippers of the force but are the most extreme and most powerful, the jedi refuse the notion of power and yet they seek it, the sith refuse the notion of peace and yet wish to rule peacefully there are many religions that worship the force in either aspect and though are not as powerful are more successful and sustainable as they are either passive worshipers or worship both equally, just take a look at the sith species for an example, that worshipped the dark side passively AND ritualistically but they showed that the dark side CAN be used for good, it was Ajunta Paal who contorted and twisted it into the shell it is today, i wish to one day explore this in a character who is technically a sith lord but more so just hates the jedi and finds the dark side is more useful to him but can use the light if necessary as a way to show an aspect of balance
![Ungoliant, Shelob, & the Spiders of Middle-earth [Compilation]](/img/n.gif)
The sith code is not about being evil. It's about gaining power, and not being concerned about how that power is gained. This very often results in sith committing evil acts in the pursuit of power, but it does not require it.
Power always comes at a cost - either you pay it or others do - Sith prefer just to choose the latter but it also comes at their own expense soon enough - because that power is gnawing at their own form mercilesly
@krzosu yeah.. but in theory, if a sith believed he could benefit more from being benevolent, or at least not overtly destructive, to those around him.. there's nothing in the sith philosophy that would go against him being "good" to his friends or servants, employees, or whatever.
@@kevin9218 This is the thing - the sith believe only in themselves and that makes them paranoid - a paranoia so powerfull that makes them distrust anyone else that breeds hatred towards others - not compassion and that hatred makes them prone to be evil towards others. adn then there is the pull of the dark side itself towards taking shortcuts that usually invole gaining power at someone elses expense. So just because their code aint openly saying certain things it doesnt mean it doesnt involve these darker things. its an easy slippery slope for them to fall down to and keep on going.
Your statement is completely contradictory. If the Sith don't care about how they gain power, then the Sith code itself is about being evil. There is nothing altruistic about it or anything that promotes the interests of other individuals. It promotes the idea that a person should elevate their own interests above everyone and everything else at any cost, which makes it evil. The actions of its adherents tells you everything you need to know.
What if others pay the price naturally can the sith draw power from that and not get hooked like a Crack addict?
Stupendous Wave is the main Star Wars channel on youtube that is actually focusing on Star Wars. I like Theory but I cant remember last time I snuggled up with a hot cup of cocoa and devoured some good ol' lore videos on his channel. Amazing videos Stupendous, every damn time.
Yes I like stupendous’s vibe a bit more cuz he talks about star wars while theory criticizes and talks about whatever
Based comment
@@joejohnson2458 So what do you think my friend?
Because Theory is like a podcaster pundit now, Stupendous is just a repository for lore for Star Wars, like a professor who loves his subject.
@@lotusinn3 So who do you like more?
The Dark Side doesn’t allow empathy, but it can allow pragmatism. You will become self-serving, but you can still see your own benefits alongside the benefits of others.
Except pragmatism dictates why to share power when it can be all for you - thus making empathy a non factor. aka why benefit anyone but yourself - it wont help you and it will make your enemies stronger or worse it will turn your own minions agaisnt you if they get a sense they are strong enough to get away with it and if you share your power or knowledge this will make them stronger and stronger and might even turn them into outright competition for you or to the very least a nuisance or hinderance.
@ pragmatism often dictates the exact opposite. Benefiting and forming ties with others often directly rewards you in the long run (which even the average Rule of Two Sith acknowledges and makes use of) and nothing about not killing people is making your enemies stronger or turning your underlings against you. It just means that you don’t have those enemies to begin with. Your schizophrenic mindset is common among the Sith, but it is not the only way to go about things.
Before meeting the Rakata, the Sith Species used the Dark Side in a Harmonious Way. Vectivus coukd simply have been like that, as the Sith were only Truly Corrupted when Ajunta Pall's Sith came to them, as even the Rakata did not manage to Fully Corrupt them.
Vectevis must’ve had an unusually powerful mental fortitude to withstand the pull of the Dark yet accepted it as it is and used it as he saw fit. Not for pure evil, but mainly a source of knowledge similar to our Kreia or Plagueis tried to do in their times when alive.
Exar Kun had a way stronger mental fortitude as he withstanded to be confined for over 4000 years and easily corrupted manipulate and possess kyp durrun light years away from yavin4
@@InfiniteNaos exar kun crave over everything his main goal is to become a god
Let's not forget Darth Marr, the Sith that fought against Valkorion, lost and became a Force Ghost. He was never redeemed, he lived and died a Sith and everyone respected him and the Force accepted him how he was. Darth Marr is THE best Sith ever. Vectivus being close second.
It sounds unlikely but not impossible
@@chrishale7480 It is impossible because anyone who draws their power from the Dark Side becomes a slave to it. The story of Vectivus was clearly a lie that was meant to convince Jacen that a person could use the Dark Side for altruistic reasons. We've seen it from Dooku and Anakin's examples that it just isn't possible. The Dark Side perverts the user's reasoning to the point where they become an agent of destruction.
I don't think it was lie, I believe Darth Vectivus utilized the Dark Side of the Force in a practical way as a ruthless Businessman. He might not of committed evil in the sense of causing wars, but I bet he made sure his Company was one the best while taking out all competition.
That’s my opinion as well. He was real but he did shady and ruthless stuff to make his company money and his friends and family? They likely weren’t the best people to begin with which is why his more ruthless tactics didn’t drive them away
Yes it's possible to embrace the Dark Side without being corrupted. The ancient Je'daii Order was able to use hardcore Dark Side abilities like Force Lightning and Alchemy. The Nightsisters are also a good example of using the Dark Side without loosing oneself. They had powers even the Sith thought unnatural but still maintained strong communal bonds with one another.
Makes you wonder what ever happened to any one that harmed any one he loved or was caring for even responsible for.
If he was real in the lore given, that is a debate in itself. I suspect Lumiya wasn't fully honest in her retelling and that Vectivus, if going with him being real, did, in fact, do some unsavory things, be it for research or self preservation just that Vectivus, more possible, horrid actions were low-key like Palpatine before becoming Emperor.
The best lies and deceptions are those wrapped in truth. Lumiya goal was well known, and it was to hurt Luke and the New Republic. So her reasons in telling such stories are just for Jacen to fall.
Vectivus probably made any who threaten those he loved disappear or have an unfortunate accident.
Darth Vectevis remind me the how the Sith (Kissai = Priestclass) probably used the dark Side, but he is just one of Legends (even when ones point to him they don't understand that he did't harm anyone).
I think people look at this story the wrong way. MOST Sith during the Rule of Two era didn't cause mass death and destruction; the whole point was staying low-profile. So that is not the standard for whether they were good or evil. Where Vectivus was different is that, unlike most Sith, he set reasonable goals. He did not need to dominate or control the galaxy, he just needed to make himself rich. And he did that. So like Palpatine as Emperor, he got what he wanted and was able to chill for years. And since he was during the Rule of Two and never got into a fight with the Jedi, that is why he was able to die peacefully.
Disagree. Darth Bane did really evil stuff while being lowprofile, the same with Tenebrous, even the beloved Dark Jedi Tyrannus did some shady stuff. Vectivus died surrounded by his friends and family. Every other Banite Sith died by their apprentice cunning and vengeance.
@@Scrubermensch tbh i think vectivus was a more grounded form of evil (assuming he was evil in the first place), whereas you had people like sidious blowing up planets he just utilized the darkside to ruthlessly build his company up not unlike many of the elites today
This is the SW channel that improved the most throughout the years, you have done (and is doing) well, congrats!
It is probably like what Palpatine told Anakin about Darth Plagueius.
He told him the NICE parts of it. But he fails to mention that Plageuis did NOT have loved ones.
Darth Vectivus, if he existed, probably had a Code. Even Bane and Zannah seem to have some rules they followed when they interacted with people.
I believe Vectivus was real, but I doubt that he wasn’t evil, and I doubt the circumstances of his death. Lumiya’s retelling of his story resembles Palpatine’s retelling of Plagueis’ story.
Of Plagueis, Palpatine said “He could even save the ones he cared about from dying.” He cleverly omits that Plagueis didn’t care about anyone but himself.
Lumiya said that Vectivus died surrounded by friends and family. But she might have omitted the state those friends and family were in…
Vectivus’ signature ability, the Force Phantom, was a very complex ritual that involved draining the life essence from victims to conjure a spectre and project it across great distances. It wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility that Vectivus had imprisoned friends and family and drained their life essence to conjure phantoms. And after exhausting himself on the tiresome ritual, he collapsed and died, or fell unconscious and was killed by another hand.
Absolutely amazing holocron ! After Exar and Plagueis, Vectivus is my third favourite Sith Lord despite being shrouded in mysteries. Even though I believe he did exist since he created Force phantom, I like the idea that his story has been exaggerated to fit Lumaya’s plan. I’d gladly watch an episode on how Jacen became Darth Caedus !
The way I see it, regarding characters like Darth Vectivus, is that sometimes a person can spot a 'loophole' in the Dark Side. Instead of giving himself all in to the corruptive power of the Dark Side, he handled the use of his power in a more pragmatic, almost-business like sense. He didn't invest his interest in crushing his enemies, or seeking immortality.
He used it to benefit himself in another sense, to feed his curiosity in the Force, and in a more material sense, his fortunes.
However, in saying this, Vectivus' dabbling in the Dark Side would not be without its costs. To draw upon its power efficiently, the practitioner must make themselves more appealing to the Dark Side. It is highly unlikely that he would've been able to develop the Force Phantom technique without committing evil acts, or performing some form of personal sacrifice to deepen his connection or understanding of the Force. Force Phantom is a pretty advanced technique in itself, and not something one would pick up at Sith Lord orientation. It would be akin to Darth Sidious knowing essence transfer, in the earliest days of his training.
Through my speculation, his evil efforts were downplayed, and written off in his mind as 'business expenses'. The occasional murder here and there, men who were formerly on his payroll and the like, when he operated the mines. Small, but considered 'acceptable' sacrifices before the Dark Side Nexus he discovered. These acts of betrayal and controlled destruction could give him the power he needed, and what would be required of him is the means to resist the negative, consequential effects that arise from tapping into this power. This would come in the form of calculated, self-imposed rules to which he must abide by.
He also sought out a Sith teacher to set him down this path of learning, and it is likely, in tradition of the Rule of Two era Sith, he killed his master. I would find it confusing to see a Sith Lord take on a student who wouldn't try to prove themselves as being proficient in the Dark Side. This would be difficult to formulate in Bane's plan, as each successive Sith who takes up the role of 'master' is meant to surpass their teacher, and ultimately, usurp them.
Vectivus' interests also don't seem to be tied to conquering the galaxy, but have the Dark Side serve himself on a different level. To be a Sith, it means to focus on personal development, to rein the Force in to serve them, instead of benefitting others out of compassion or desire of producing harmony and peace. Each theoretical 'offering' he might've done, to further his pursuits, would've been measured and balanced. Selfish, but not overindulgent.
Keep up the good content🤪
Let’s goooooooo & Happy New Year everyone ❤
This illuminates the question even further. What is the dark side, if not selfishness?
@@patrickramos9251 the truth
Bogan is power and the quest for it. Becoming a beast of aggression and hatred doesn't speak much of the dark side as much as it speaks about the individual. The dark side never obliged cruelty or torture, it were always the practitioners that couldn't resist their own evil inside. Ask the Jee'Dai of Tython, they incorporated the dark side in their teachings and for thousands of years they stood proudly. The whole idea of Grandmaster Luke was to actually embrace the Force as a whole, respecting the Dark Side alongside the seducing call of Bogan while also bathing in the light of Ashlah and her peaceful nature.
@Scrubermensch Keeping in mind that everything is relative to the self. What is power?
@patrickramos9251 Power is just power, it's not evil, it has no will of its own, it's just the aspect of potency, being able to guide one's own fate. Most sentient beings go crazy with that freedom. When the force frees the practitioners from their chain, they go mad with that power and chain themselves in their own self indulgence.
@Scrubermensch there are two types of power. Control over the self, and control over the external. Power is control. Power is selfishness in almost all cases of the Sith. Power is selflessness in almost all cases of the jedi. So I ask again. What is the dark side really?
I would definitely want a story about Jacen Solo and his fall to the dark side
Let’s go heck of a video Stupendous hope your having an awesome January 2 and would love to see a video on Jacen’s turn to the dark side and May the force be with you always
Great story, more videos on good Sith and lesser known aspects of the Force. 😊
Good Soldiers get here in less than 2 minutes.
I've...failed. (6min)
That's what she said.
55
Good soldiers are their own person and don't copy captain Rex
An hour.
Jacen Solo video.
Yes please 🙏
That’d be cool 😎
Stupendous is the Luetin of Star Wars content, and i appreciate it so much
It's very cool how you research all these characters, it opens up a whole new path to venture down hey
Wow Stupendous! What a question, and what a video! Never considered it to be a fallacy, but I rethink it. "But even if one does no harm, does that necessarily mean that they are doing good?" The Bible answers, "For hardly would anyone die for a righteous man; though perhaps for a good man someone may dare to die."
I don't think it is the force that makes you corrupt.
I think it just inspires the corrupt part with in oneself.
One who is purely indifferent might never be corrupted.
Interesting philosophical and human question...
I'd luv more videos on Jacen. His story is unbelievably fascinating
@@erieperry8241 Why do you personally like him?
@teodoraustin3505 mostly for his truly unique approach to learning about the Force. While most approached it from either a jedi or sith leaning, Jacen approached it objectively
@@erieperry8241 Yes so he embraces both that’s cool. I don’t know much about him, but I’d like to know more about him.
He was probably real... but you have to keep in mind that he was supposedly a Rule of Two Sith, an era when the Sith were in hiding. Jason was living in an era of conflict and fell into the Anakin Trap (arrogant belief in his own superiority). Vectivus's ambitions were just different, most likely, as ambition for power can take innumerable forms based on the individual.
As I heard his tale he used the dark side to create a small business empire and controlled an entire sector as well. He did this applying caution and cunning when using the dark side. Plus he was quite greedy as well.
Strong possibility he wasn't real, but if he was, I'd suspect he was neutral at best. From what i can deduce, Vectivus didn't have the ambition that becomes obsession that most sith have that eventually corrupts them. Simply put he was content in the life he had already established before joining the sith, and only did so to satisfy his own curiosity and had no true loyalty to the order. As for if the sith can be good well depends on their will and of course their "point of view"
The thing about Vectivus is that he's too good to be true and the only source is a compulsive liar trying to seduce someone to their own agenda
@Eric6761 LIke i said he probably ain't real
Hey stupendous, we’ve seen civilizations such as the rakatans use dark side force based technology and darth tenebrous planned on creating dark side super computers to make a perfect economy and to solve problems, but have there been cases of light side force based technology being used, if so, what are the benefits!
I read the video’s title and immediately thought of Obi-Wan’s line about absolutes.
I love this channel so much
Jacens fall video fully explained pls
Or have a video about why none of the skywallker and solo family tried to redeem jacen
I've been waiting and watching with you for years now to see more of this Sith's story. Too bad they haven't really released anything else on him since. Super intriguing character.
Great channel. 👍
Since you suggested some Jacen content I’d love it! Also if you felt like making more Legends videos about the post ROTJ galaxy id love it too!
Nice video
Vectivus was mentioned in the Plagueis novel as well, which leads me to believe he was a sith during the rule of two. He would’ve had to have killed his master at some point. And if he died of natural causes and was surrounded by his loved ones, then how does the rule of 2 continue? It doesn’t make sense to me.
It was all a lie or a plothole from not catious authors.
I'm an enthusiastic aspiring Loremaster and I commend your teachings, you are a true Loremaster. I believe Vectivus and Marr were the only Sith to never ever indulging in evil however they would still do cruel stuff that would serve a better purpose, they'd just be more rational and minimize people's unnecessary suffering.
Now I'm going to re-read these books. YES I would like to see that video.
Amazing!
I think that it may be a case like the "Tale of Darth Pleguis the Wise." It was based in truth, but the story was twisted to serve a temptor's purpose.
I would absolutely love a video of his turn to the Dark Side
It is a lie if ever I heard of one in the Universe. There is never a time in the entirety of the history of the Sith that they are at peace considering they thrive in times of war and struggles, and the Dark Side is a very powerful corrupter of the individual who uses it, because no matter how noble you are you are forever changed from the person who has those hopes were.
Actually I heard of a story (Somewhere on the internet I could be wrong) where there were a small group of sith during the old republic that called themselves good sith or something linke that and they wouldnt use the sith for evil or harm but other sith when they learned of the group saw them as false sith and they wiped out the good sith.
@@ssjredbirdgrade5673those were basically: Too tame for Sith and too chaotic to be a Jedi, those who tried to wield the light while being Sith weren't good
@@Eric6761 oh ok
I dunno, Vectivus is Legends Cannon, which also contains Darth Maar, a guy who is very obviously a Sith, and a dark side user, but despite this was able to become one with the force with his death at the hands of Valkorion.
Its just absurdly rare for an individual to be a Sith, use the dark side, and not fall into a state of self destruction while lusting after power. But Absurdly rare doesn't mean impossible.
If Maar wasn't in cannon, I'd probably say its a lie, but because he exists, its shows that Vectivus' tale could in fact be real.
That said, the truth was probably streched a lot in what we know of him
Oh yeah, let's learn Jacen Solo. The story that Disney should've gone with. My opinion though.
Exactly, just needs a happier ending. Redeption do not always need death.😊
I just finished re-reading the legacy of the force series. Watching Jacen fall to the darkside still breaks me. Please do a follow a deep dive on him. Everything from being taken care of by nannys (love you winter!) To the dark man.(Krayt.)
Didn't the Ancient Sith prior to their subjugation by the Second Schism Dark Jedi live in harmony with the Dark Side? I believe one of your videos covered this point.
I mean the dark side encourages evil, often chaotic evil tendencies but there's no reason you can't basically be lawful evil. Sure, according to the teachings of Plagueis, this may make you less attractive to the dark side of the force but it's not like you're exactly being a good guy either. So, you're not exactly connecting with the light or anything. It makes sense that a Sith lord would, when training a student, want to break someone to ensure they are without their own moral code and more malleable/receptive to the ways of the Sith. That said, as much as the dark side is a power that corrupts, it may not always be absolute. If a Sith can be fully redeemed to the light, then it stands to reason that similar changes in them and circumstances could have them be less evil but still evil. Learning from mistakes, that of one's self or others, could lead a Sith to consider restraint in some situations. A Sith being able to fall in love and not being cut off from the dark side, as a result, or loving one's family kinds of plays into this. People can be monsters to some and yet kind to others. Perhaps some may see value in such mercy, seeing not love but a code that views the conquered as not those to make suffer but as tools that require some care for proper use. There are many direction you can take this.
While it is possible that Vectivis was a moral man, as a Sith lord, I'm not convinced that he was like this during his training. As his master would not allow that. I'm convinced that, if this is not a myth or lie, that his morality was something that was regained when he was free of the chains from his master. It is said that the Sith species' culture was not as destructive as what they would learn fro mthe dark Jedi, even if they did worship the dark side. Maybe they were like this, a form of lawful evil. If his teacher was the dark side itself, that's where this is interesting. Presumably, the Sith species would have started out in a similar way.
I get the feeling that his answer would be something like. "Well yeah, by that logic the force is evil and so is your own body. Some kill with the force and some kill with their own hands. It's evil when those idiots it but not when used properly."
I would very much like to see a story on Jason's fall to the Dark Side, including how powerful he was.
A Jacen video would be cool, but to do it right you have to do Vergere and The Vong and his siblings.
I bet he will skip most of jacen caedus lore and sources with a 10 minute video
Could you make a video about your views on the new season of Andor?
MORE ON JACEN AND JAINA SOLO AND BEN SKYWALKER!!! In these times, I think more would appreciate these stories.
It IS possible to be evil and not be overcome by it, it's just a matter of self control. This is just a concept that many either forget or ignore.
Given what Jacen has to do later to complete his Sith training - that is to say murder somebody close to him - it speaks to the fact that Vectivus is a lie. Even in the material in which he was introduced. He couldn't have been a Sith Lord without murdering at least two people. Somebody he loved and cared for and his master.
That does not mean that he wasn't evil. Just because he had a "code" doesn't change that anymore than it does for any example of the trope "Even Evil Has Standards."
We do know the One Sith viewed Vectivus as a mockery and laughing stock, which is ironic because they were viewed similarly.
The question in and of itself is interesting. This is just me but I think a very very small handful of people can use the dark side without being solely corrupted by it. But we also have to think about other factors too. From what I understand Darth Vectivus was in his later years when he went looking for the Sith. So let's be charitable and say he was in his 40s We don't know if he had a wife or children if he did those people might have kept him very much rooted as a person. There's also his ethics in business from what I understand his sith Holocron Didn't have a lot of dark side techniques in it. It talked mostly about business and how to conduct one self
The force shall free me
I would love a jacen/kidus video. I haven't found the book series as audio books.
I would love to see a deep dive on the fall of Jacen to the dark side
Lumiya probably told Jacen Solo the story of Darth Vectivus for the same reason Palpatine told Anakin the story of Darth Plagueis.
The only trap is thinking you are going to make a galactic impact of importance. Just stop with that.
Right on. Anyone with a brain 🧠 stays out of politics. Best to start own company to help the needy or whatever cause. Promote your passions for the greater good without the corruption of the Senate.😅
@hackman669 basically start right at home.
I really enjoy your interpretations of the Star Wars universe, it's very in-depth, fills in the gaps between the gaps very well. That's what makes Star Wars so cool hey? Every person can research the in betweens of every part of Star Wars and discover something that adds to it and becomes....part...of..it if that makes any sense? Like it's the perfect depiction of good verses evil, Anikans fall to the dark side and the transformation into Darth Vader..but the force...so good yet so evil. But my favourite is the gray Jedi or??? Gray Sith like Revan, someone who can use the dark side with out losing them selves to the dark side completely...good stuff, love Star Wars...
Me too man, love it a lot.
I would want a video about Jacen Solo’s fall to the dark side.
Imho, the dog eat dog mentality of the Sith, resonated well with Darth Vectivus' life as a shrewd businessman. While he may have "Did no evil" is because he was smart enough to know that he was in no position to carry out the Grand Plan, himself.
Count Dooku used the dark side without being consumed by it. He did cause some destruction but he didn't lose himself.
When Dooku and Yoda crossed paths during TCW series, Dooku very clearly tells Yoda that it was too late for him to turn back when Yoda attempted to convert him back to the Light Side. The fact that Dooku was mostly seen without the trademark yellow eyes doesn't mean he wasn't in deep. He didn't thrive on hate like other darksiders did, but he was just as deep as Vader was by the time of the OT.
Like any form of power, the force is going to turn a person into a caricature of themselves.
PLEASE!! Give us a Jacen Solo video
Chaotic evil vs Lawful evil.
Could he have had a neutral stance cos of the jedi of that era? Maybe he was just progressing the Sith plan from afar and his role as Sith Lord was to amass resources for future Lords of the Sith. Appreciate what u do Wave , may the force be with u always.
Obviously do a video on Jason’s fall to the darkside please stupendous
Knowledge isn’t evil but the way said knowledge is used by one can be good or evil. This like anything is open to interpretation.
Definitely need more njo holicrons
Please make a video about Jacen Solo/ Caedus. Maybe also ur opinion on the legacy of the force books.
I'd like to see your video on the Fall of Jacen Solo
Technical, yes, it's possible to use the dark side and not be corrected by, in fact, we know both Revan and luke as a few other jedi and sith in legends have done it but it's extremely hard and dangerous especially sense it can drive you insane
Star wars anthropology, the investigation into star wars, I bet you play alot of role play games?? Lol very good anthropology but..indepth, good explanation and theory
Jacen Solo's fall to the dark side? Yes plz
For the Sith to stay hidden for a millenia, they must have known how to resist going on rampages. I imagine most Sith were not Palpatine, but gathered power on a smaller scale.
I think he likely existed, but Lumiya twisted the story to please herself, leaving out any unpleasant bits.
Jacen was still dumb as brick in this series. Lumiya lures him with the promise of not losing his family, and them almost immediately decides he needs to kill one of them based on a prophecy she introduces (probably wrote) and interprets as she pleases. ..and Jacen never questions it.
A good deal of the question comes down to a paradigm. The Dark Side means different things depending on which era you're in. In SW:tOR, it's possible to make entirely "Light Side" decisions as a Sith Warrior or Inquisitor. However, you continue to use Sith methods and practices.
Additionally, non-Force sensatives also gain Light and Dark Side scores, which could be considered meaningless for them.
The Dark Side in this era is arguably tilted towards rage, anger, fear, and other negative emotions. But a playthrough where a Sith Warrior takes a Light Side Jedi as a companion sees a gradual emotionlessness come over the padawan. Indeed, her goal seems to almost sound like becoming one of Star Trek's Vulcans. From this, one can infer that the struggle isn't good versus evil, but Lawful versus Chaotic. I mean this in a D&D context, where Lawful approaches are team-oriented, and Chaotic ones focus on individuals.
In "modern day," Vectivus is one of the few Dark Side users who (assuming no deception) could be considered morally good, or at least neutral. Additionally, love and hope are encouraged among the Jedi, something that might be seen as attachment in earlier eras.
I'd say the nature of the Force itself shifted over the Millennia. While the original Sith species and early Dark Jedi were less susceptible to corruption, that became more difficult over time.
Maybe the approach of the Sith themselves has become the problem? At least along the Banite lineage. Other Force traditions exist, such as the Nightsisters. Perhaps it's a matter of riding the Dark Side while not letting it ride you.
Currently, I play a Sith from 4,000 BBY in a D&D game with a Jedi from 1 ABY (Planescape-style shenanigans going on). We've managed to team up, and my Chaotic Good Sith is horrifed to know what's happened to the galaxy and the Sith Order, now that the Jedi trusts him enough to tell him. Said Jedi is Lawful Neutral.
Characters like Darth Marr (who is arguably Lawful Evil) might challenge my idea with their very existence. I've rationalized it by saying Dark Side users have something of a "Beast," a la Vampire: the Masquerade. The DM has talked about giving me Self-control rolls to lose myself, but with greater power as a potential reward. Meanwhile, I continue to play the character as a multiclassed Mystic/Barbarian.
So in the end, I think a lot of it comes down to interpretation of what the Sides each stand for, and if they have significant overlap.
Would love your opinion/thought process regarding the conceptual idea of a force related order that doesn’t require a doctrine for its members too follow.
I’ve talked with the others and it’s a fairly more in depth thought built off the idea for a grey Jedi/3rd force user order and its implications if a character followed the ideology of
“Don’t try to understand the force instead move with it” and created an order with that doctrine
jacen's fall
Guys hear me out:
What if the true Vectivus was the friends we made along the way
We need some Jason lore
The Jedi were aware of other dark side Force users societies across the galaxy, but there was no reason to interact with them because they kept it to themselves, and we're no a threat to the galaxy.
Jedi had Jedi sentinels and Jedi shadows stationed in some planets. It is canon by the way. Those who decided to create chaos on regions and started to invade planets, those the Jedi got involved to deal with them.
Jedi: Buddha
Sith: Nietzsche
Aing-Tii: Jung
Vectivis seems a lot like plageus
I think revan is proof that the dark side can be weilded without corruption
Malgus also remained true to his character
It makes sense that a business man and scholar would be pragmatic enough to apply the dark side without being corrupted
He was real and I think he was able to use the Darkside in a way that did no evil.
Qui Gon Jinn advocated for following the living force. The force told Qui Gon to free Anakin from slavery and he did so using the force in a way that was very unlike a Jedi. He used the force to cheat allowing him to win Anakin's freedom, which was the will of the force.
In this example, I think Jinn "did no evil" because he was acting in accordance with the force which is ALWAYS trying to balance itself. Sure he used the force in a way that Jedi would frown upon, but the Jedi forget their their purpose was to serve the force, NOT the Republic.
I think the darkside could be used in a similar manner. It is simply the other side of the same coin, which used with control and moderation is a tool that CAN be used to help bring balance to the force, if the force wills it to be so.
The thing about Vectivus is that, he's not that good when you break down, sure he might have just learned the dark for curiosity but he had to kill at least his master plus if he took an apprentice then he basically continued a cycle
@@Eric6761 depends on perspective.
Is killing someone in self-defense evil? Who goes to say that his master decided to kill him to train another apprentice and Vectivious killed his master in self-defense? Would he be considered evil?
Taking an apprentice isn't an evil act either. Just because you're Sith doesn't automatically mean you're evil. Actions, intent, and circumstance determine if you're evil. Being a Sith is a title not a moral designation.
a jason video would be much appreciated
the first part of the problem is the jedi who view things as black and white and the fact the sith are the opposite side of the jedi coin, using the dark side and not being corrupted is possible but being a sith has its own set of rules that encourage a corrupting point of view. i would say the jedi corrupt the force just as much as the sith one covers the canvas in black the other white, but there is a rainbow of colors to paint with that those 2 groups ignore. not corrupting the force is more akin to going with the flow while not giving into a dogmatic view or your own desires, rather like trying to be a well rounded person in life in general and applying that to the use of the force.
History into each character, better understandings of the force, the star wars galaxy, the ships, weapons, I like knowing about the workings of the light sabre the history of the Kyber crystal how they power the sabre & how it was fist used as like a peace keepers weapon but then fully modded out for combat use by the Sith and the Clone wars, like Darth Mauls type of staff sabre and Anikans type of hilt, which Yoda didn't like because, it was a combat type hilt, but...Anikan showed signs of a Sith even from the beginning because of the type of light sabres he liked to build, his love for...combat, chopping up droids stuff like that..his thirst for action, is a sign of a Sith, same as Luke, always looking towards the horizon...adventure. Obi-Wan is the perfect depiction of what a Jedi should be I reckon...
Id like to learn more about Jacen
Id like to hear about jasons fall to the dark side
They were only evil because the jedi said they were evil Because of the way they use the force to take control... Anyone can say anyone's evil and everybody else could be over the good guys that doesn't mean you are
IF Darth Vectivous was as he is described, then at the very least he had to have killed at least one person, his Master and the previous Lord of the Sith.
maybe in future vid, compare if Luke's New Jedi Order (Legends) was better than the Old Jedi Order. B/c I noticed that Luke's Order had more Dark Jedi spawned much more rapidly in comparison to the Old Order
I am a Jedi, like my father before me
Please do a full video of Jacen Solo
How about Count Duku his eyes didn't turn yellow like a Sith
I've always felt that in order to reach true peace and true "balance" one must accept both sides. Anakin, Luke AND Revan are examples of what the force truly wants, balance the sith and the jedi are not the only worshippers of the force but are the most extreme and most powerful, the jedi refuse the notion of power and yet they seek it, the sith refuse the notion of peace and yet wish to rule peacefully there are many religions that worship the force in either aspect and though are not as powerful are more successful and sustainable as they are either passive worshipers or worship both equally, just take a look at the sith species for an example, that worshipped the dark side passively AND ritualistically but they showed that the dark side CAN be used for good, it was Ajunta Paal who contorted and twisted it into the shell it is today, i wish to one day explore this in a character who is technically a sith lord but more so just hates the jedi and finds the dark side is more useful to him but can use the light if necessary as a way to show an aspect of balance