I absolutely adore the Freedom range from Saucony. It is mandatory you get used to the decrease in stability. The whole point is you need to build and train those balancing-muscles that are passive in overengineered shoes like the Triumph. I also have several Kinvara’s and the Freedom has more effective cushioning and increased durability.
I agree that the Freedom has more effective cushioning for a soft feel and durability, but I would disagree quite a lot with the cushioning being more effective. The amount of energy return does not compensate for that softness and weight in my book (generally energy return is a marketing term that tries to to lure you away from the HUGE energy loss when it’s soft). I can run in shoes that are soft, low drop and that have less stability, but every one of them are faster than the freedom. I know I need more stability than a fully neutral runner, but have no issues with similar shoes regarding speed and actually use shoes like the Fli-Lyte as a racing shoe sometimes. That would never happen in the freedom. Thank you for your comment, I am glad you love the shoe, as there are many people out there that love many different type of shoes. Have a great day, and stay safe!
Thanks Lars for elaborating! I am always in search of shoes that give me a neutral way of running but without the punishing harshness of minimalist designs. As a 32 year old, I aim to increase my strength as a runner to be able to run for the rest of my life. I do like to run fast, but don’t aim for faster times anymore.
Awesome review. Hard to argue with your personal data. In this case, it supported your gut feel about the shoe. I've had just the opposite happen, where I believed something about a shoe and my Garmin data suggested quite the opposite. Anyway, love this type of review vs someone just telling me things I can read on the Saucony website. Good job!
Great review!! I share the same rational there with saucony shoe that I have (hurricane and mad river). They both feel super slow in my gait. The fact that freedom is 4mm drop compared to 8mm for the triumph might be a reason why you feel faster in the triumph. Keep it up!!👍
Thanks for the comment. With that rationale I would also be slow in the Kinvara 4mm or the Topo Zephyr 5mm, but I’m sure I run better in high drop shoes since those are the shoes I use the most. Have a great day!!
Interesting review. I have the Kinvara 11's and they fit me perfectly. I like the low drop, ground contact feel. I also want to migrate more to lower drop running shoes to strengthen my muscles. I'm not really interested in using the Freedom to go fast, I want a softer ride for recovery days while still giving my calves and lower legs and stretch and work out. So basically for easy/recovery days/general stretching. For race day there are plenty of well-publicised better options. I haven't bought the Freedom 3 - do you think that the Freedom 3 would work as a low drop easy/recovery run shoe or is that not what it is used for?
It could definitely work for that. It’s not a shoe that works for me but that doesn’t mean it won’t work for you. The shoe itself is very comfortable and could definitely be a great option for your needs. I love the kinvaras. Probably my favorite faster shoe!
Great grounded review. I haven't run in third Freedoms, though. But first version, Freedom ISO, is one of, if not the, best running shoes I've ever run in. And the fastest one, compared to any other Saucony I have had in rotation (Guide, Triumph). But I don't pronate, which might be the factor. I absolutely love the 4mm drop and the natural feel of it. The other thing though is that 5min/km is not a slow pace for me. 4:40-5:10 is my regular maximum, and Freedoms were the best at this pace. And the best part of it is that even half marathon doesn't seem like a threshold as the cushion is really good even for bigger distances. That said, your review is great and thorough regardless. Keep them coming. Cheers from Russia!
Really good in depth review. Though, I have the opposite experience with the previous version. Have had the Freedom 2 ISO in the past and it has been the fastest shoe I've had. But did not entirely like the fact that the heel cup was non existing.So had Kinvara 9 and 10 after these but now purchased the Freedom 3's because it seems to have better heel support. Maybe I would not have bought it if I'd seen your review:-) But given the fact that the Freedom 2 has been the fastest shoe for me, I doubt that the 3 will be the slowest. Bit strange though the difference in your data between the triumph and the freedom on shorter runs...would not expect this because they share the same sole. On longer runs it could be explained due to lack of stability.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the shoe. It might as well be my running style that just isn’t suited for the freedom. Hope it really works for you!!
Nice review. I picked this up today at 75% discount and it sounds like a shoe for me. For my low HR training, I find it hard to run slower. Sometimes extremely hard to run slow on purpose. The wisest running mentors swear by the ‘want to run faster then run slower’ which I do believe and my results back that. The most natural running shoe I have is the Atreyu Voyager and it’s a no frills all thrills shoe. I’ll be interested to see how the Freedom 3 holds up as I do like a more natural feel. Many have commented it’s not a fast shoe so they are in agreement with you. Months ago, I tried on the Freedom 3 and it felt great with the form fitting upper. I chose the Triumph 17 due to my use as mostly a colder season shoe. I love the Triumph’s versatility. I’ll anxious to get some mileage on the Freedom.
Similar feeling. Same way I felt about the original Freedom which I loved for walking and was not great for running. I found the Freedom 3 (now I have more miles in it) to also feel much more like a slab of foam underneath (thought powerrun+ is better) and also to have very low volume all around - and I noticed it longer into the run with numb toes :(
Thanks for your comment! I'm just baffled that I find such a big difference between the Triumph and the Freedom when they have the same foam. Have a nice day, and remember to stay safe!
Thanks Colin! I got a challenge from my brother on the b-roll- Didn't do to well on the challenge, but ended up with a lot of cool shots anyways :D Thanks for the comment, have a great run and stay safe!
Only have Freedom ISO 1 and Kinvara 9. My opinion: I train in Freedom, race in Kinvara. Not that Kinvara is a bad trainer - it's actually quite good! It's just not exciting? I just find the Freedom to be really fun to run in. (Actually it's my favorite shoe ever, and I'll likely replace with Freedom 3 or 4 in 2021. Also will likely pick up K11s too!)
I run 80% of my miles in this shoe. I agree that this isn't a fast shoe and for that exact reason I use it as my base-mile shoe. Another point is that you admitted that you use a stability shoe and have pain when you pronate which likely means that a shoe as neutral as the Freedoms is the very antitheses of a shoe that would work for you. All in all what I love most about this shoe is that it discourages fast running. In my observation its what most amateur runners suffer from, running too fast too often. Thanks for the video!
Nemo B thanks for the comment:) I generally don’t hurt too much in neutral shoes actually. Even the carbon shoes that I have taken on longer runs. I’m glad you like the shoe and it’s always nice to hear other people’s thoughts about this stuff.
Top quality production man. Very knowledgeable video. Would be great if you could make a video on your store, very curious. Keep it up! #goooooodmorniiingg 😂💪
I have the freedom iso. I picked up a while ago for a really good price I've just got back from my second 10k run this week in them. I know mine are the older version but I couldn't agree more with you, during my whole run everything seemed so much harder am not that much slower in them but my heart rate to is higher I can honestly run faster and feel a lot more comfortable in my hurricane 4's (I know you you rate them). The freedoms for such a light shoe are by far the worst trainer in have and am a massive fan of saucony I have the ride the hurricane and a few pairs of the triumphs. I definitely won't be using mine freedoms much. Thank you for your review and your videos.
kevin cheesman hey Kevin. I’m sad they don’t work for you. Just remember that they can still be used for nice recovery shoes for slow days or used before a race day for extra mental surplus when you have the rights shoes on. Thanks for the comment!
Hey! Thanks for the comment! I want to try it out, but have so many shoes planned, and to be honest it just looks too unstable for me. It's like running on a marshmellow :D
Lars Ivar Henriksen I understand your point very good. But I think there is a little hype about this shoe, and I think it could pay off for you and your channel - especially if you compare with other shoes you already tested🙉 An awesome comparison would also be the ASICS Novablast with the ASICS Dynablast and the ASICS Roadblast😁
Thanks :D I can see your point. I actually really want to test it, but I also like being a guy who doesn't go for the hype shoes all the time. If I was I would only be doing Adidas, Nike and Asics basically, because they will give me so much more views than any other brands. I am considering it, but I might wait for the next version, because it will be old news in just half a year.
Freedom didn’t work for me either. My feet/soles were burning inside and I couldn’t continue running. Part of the reason is that I am used to shoes with more stable/firm soles, and while I do think I should strengthen my feet a bit, Freedom was just overkill.
Okey, sucks when you can't run in a shoe. I enjoy my runs in them as long as my goal is to run slower. I am using them more as sneakers now though. Thanks for the comment! Hope you get luckier on your next purchase!
I did run other distances as well, but not a half marathon. I went up to 12 in these. They are comfy but not fast. It doesn’t matter which distance I would choose, I would always choose the Kinvara, the ride or the triumph over this shoe.
The freedom is a great shoe, durability, cushion, low drop, great fit and most importantly free! It is after all a training shoe and it does just that. Want to do fartlek, strides, long runs and workouts (hills and track) this shoe can do it all. Yes it is less stable than the kinvara but it is a true neutral shoe and it will work all your foot and leg muscles out. No I wouldn't run a race in it as the cushion level means you miss a little in ground feel. If you look at the saucony lineup come july the only question i really have is why does saucony need the kinvara anymore? The endorphin range take over half and full marathon distances. The type a and fastwitch have track workouts/5k 10k races covered. Now you have triumph for long runs and recovery and freedom for daily running in low drop and ride in 8mm drop. Where does the out of date kinvara lineup
Thanks for that awesome comment! I see your point, but I am not agreeing with you fully. I see that the Endorphin line will be dominate in the race/interval market, but I would cut the Freedom first and use the Ride for lighter daily trainings (the ride is faster and firmer). Kinvara is still a racer shoe for those who need a little more cushioning and for normal people who can't get that much out of a carbon/nylon plate shoe. I am so looking forward to trying out some of the Endorphin shoes and comparing it to the Kinvara, who in my opinion still has a right to a place in the market. It's still Kinvaras best Saucony shoe to date, in my opinion :) But hey, that's why running shoes are so subjective. Again, thanks for you comment! Run safe!
@@LarsIvarHenriksen you can't compare the ride and the freedom as their drops are different 8mm/ 4mm. People want different drops due to Achilles issues and foot strike. Ride is better for heel strikers and flat feet the freedom is better for mid/forefoot strikers who want a free feeling trainer. The kinvara is a daily trainer with mild stability built in. The kinvara is no longer the racer and hasn't been for 2 plus years now. Either way whether we agree of not I see a difficult decision coming Saucony way in the next 2 years.
RUNNING BREAKDOWN I would definitely compare shoes with different drops, as combining both high and low drops shoes is great for running more injury free. There is no research saying that lower shoes only work or are meant for mid foot strikers as I am aware of at least. What is proven is that lower drop shoes make your heel hit the surface later, which means more impact on achilles and calf’s. Thus changing the drop would be great for everybody who wants to stay injury free. The Kinvara is lighter now compared to the first model. People seem to think nowadays that we are stronger than we were 10 years ago, we are not. The Kinvara is the same thing, only with everrun and it’s still an interval trainer and not a daily trainer. What we see from those who use Kinvara for daily miles at our store is almost always more injuries and because of that, less running in the long term.
@@LarsIvarHenriksen I agree people should use a mix drop of shoes as do I. I also suggest that the 70% of runners that heel strike put themselves at greater risk of injury because of this. Lower drop shoes more often than not have lower stack heels and thus don't work for heel strikers. I would suggest everyone to work on running form and speed before ruling out lower drop shoes. Like I said before the type a and fastwitch are interval shoes. The kinvara, freedom and ride are daily trainers and the triumph is the designated long run shoe. As a 5 year specialist in wear testing I can categorically prove this and have done in testing. The kinvara has received more cushion due to it's new position in the lineup as it drops back into a fast daily trainer position.
Thanks for the comment and the discussion. I love getting feedback from other people. We clearly are not agreeing, but that’s fine. I am basing my thoughts on this on what our physiotherapist says, the different research that I can find, what I test as well as customer feedback from several thousand customers each year. We have mostly runners from 25 and up to 80 in all sizes and we at our store never dream of giving anything but a very light person that is incredible strong runner a Kinvara for daily training. Ride is by far our most sold daily trainer from Saucony because of its lighter weight and great responsive feel. Have a great day, and remember to run safe :)
I planned to buy this shoe when my kinvara 11 retires. But after watching your review I now have doubts considering my feet pronates a bit, so I prefer a neutral shoe that is stable. Wanted to try the PWRRUN+ midsole but I don't like heavy shoes like the triumph. Oh well...
aristodiga82 you only run in Kinvara? Wow! I would never last long with a light shoe like that, and usually all of our customers who do the same thing get really injured at some point. Heavy shoes is something you get used to it’s just that all lighter shoes feel more awesome, that doesn’t make them better for you. The triumph is the best new Saucony shoe this year. Good luck in your shoe shopping!! And thanks for your comment 🙏🏻
@@LarsIvarHenriksen eh? No. I have 4 shoes in my rotation 😅 what I meant was.. I'm planning to buy the freedom after my kinvara 11 retires which I use for my daily training runs with tempo pace . Other shoes in my lineup are the reebok floatride energy (regular daily runs), the skechers razor 3 (fast pace and race), and the hoka torrent for trail. Yes, in some ways maybe I do need something like the triumph for recovery or easy paces. I'll think about it. Thanks!
Looks like you got all facets of your run covered. I just have a lot of customers who only run in the extremely light and see so many get injuries. Have a great day. Stay safe!
@@ruyveng great midsole ride. light enough for some tempo runs. regular easy to moderate pace trainings are fine. not too cushioned, but enough for your daily runs and some occasional long runs. Ever tried boost in adidas? it's like that but firmer, less bouncy, but lighter. I personally like them, but.. shoes depend on your personal stride pattern, so I won't guarantee they will fit all runners. They need some 'break-in' period though, because the midsole was a bit stiff at the midfoot to heel area. I think I enjoy them after about 30-40km of usage, and have become my staple shoes ever since.
Really interesting review. I think I get the same thing, but I actually haven't compared the same workout side by side with different shoes. I've used it for speed work and just thought I was out of shape for running fast lol. Maybe it's the shoes. But also I'm probably out of shape lol.
Hey Rob. They are totally different il almost every sense of the way in m opinion. Zephyr has a wide fit, a 5mm drop, and a soft foam that would have made them very similar. But the plate totally changes the dynamics of the shoe and makes it harder, more stable, and more effective to run with. I am fond of the Topo fit, but not in the zephyr. The Freedom has a softer foam, and a softer upper and a similar drop (4mm). But because of the lack of stiffness its less table and less effective. But if you like a softer shoe and don't need the support I see a lot of people who like to run in it. I am not one of them though and find it terribly slow. The stats I talk about in this video are fun to see. Because the Zephyr has the exact opposite effect on me and is one of the shoes that got the highest scores during that month's test when it comes to running the economy. Hope you are having a great day and thanks for the comment.
Wyatt / wyweb I have fast 4mm shoes as well (Kinvara is 4mm and it’s leagues faster). Topo Fli-lyte is one of them, and it’s 3mm. The drop isn’t such a big factor in my mind, it’s the lack of anything stable that makes me run slowly in them.
The 880 is far more stable. The freedom is a natural running shoe. Very different from each other. I run a lot better in the 880, which is my favorite shoe this year so far.
I absolutely adore the Freedom range from Saucony. It is mandatory you get used to the decrease in stability. The whole point is you need to build and train those balancing-muscles that are passive in overengineered shoes like the Triumph. I also have several Kinvara’s and the Freedom has more effective cushioning and increased durability.
I agree that the Freedom has more effective cushioning for a soft feel and durability, but I would disagree quite a lot with the cushioning being more effective. The amount of energy return does not compensate for that softness and weight in my book (generally energy return is a marketing term that tries to to lure you away from the HUGE energy loss when it’s soft). I can run in shoes that are soft, low drop and that have less stability, but every one of them are faster than the freedom. I know I need more stability than a fully neutral runner, but have no issues with similar shoes regarding speed and actually use shoes like the Fli-Lyte as a racing shoe sometimes. That would never happen in the freedom. Thank you for your comment, I am glad you love the shoe, as there are many people out there that love many different type of shoes. Have a great day, and stay safe!
Thanks Lars for elaborating! I am always in search of shoes that give me a neutral way of running but without the punishing harshness of minimalist designs. As a 32 year old, I aim to increase my strength as a runner to be able to run for the rest of my life. I do like to run fast, but don’t aim for faster times anymore.
Awesome review. Hard to argue with your personal data. In this case, it supported your gut feel about the shoe. I've had just the opposite happen, where I believed something about a shoe and my Garmin data suggested quite the opposite. Anyway, love this type of review vs someone just telling me things I can read on the Saucony website. Good job!
Thanks Greg!! Have a great day!
Great review!! I share the same rational there with saucony shoe that I have (hurricane and mad river). They both feel super slow in my gait. The fact that freedom is 4mm drop compared to 8mm for the triumph might be a reason why you feel faster in the triumph. Keep it up!!👍
Thanks for the comment. With that rationale I would also be slow in the Kinvara 4mm or the Topo Zephyr 5mm, but I’m sure I run better in high drop shoes since those are the shoes I use the most. Have a great day!!
Thanks for doing such an honest video review. It is very useful for runners and of course for manufacturer to improving thier better products.
Thanks Vassapol!!
Interesting review. I have the Kinvara 11's and they fit me perfectly. I like the low drop, ground contact feel. I also want to migrate more to lower drop running shoes to strengthen my muscles. I'm not really interested in using the Freedom to go fast, I want a softer ride for recovery days while still giving my calves and lower legs and stretch and work out. So basically for easy/recovery days/general stretching. For race day there are plenty of well-publicised better options. I haven't bought the Freedom 3 - do you think that the Freedom 3 would work as a low drop easy/recovery run shoe or is that not what it is used for?
It could definitely work for that. It’s not a shoe that works for me but that doesn’t mean it won’t work for you. The shoe itself is very comfortable and could definitely be a great option for your needs. I love the kinvaras. Probably my favorite faster shoe!
Subscribed!! I always appreciate honesty in reviews.
Thanks Kostas!! I try my best to be objective 😀
Great grounded review. I haven't run in third Freedoms, though. But first version, Freedom ISO, is one of, if not the, best running shoes I've ever run in. And the fastest one, compared to any other Saucony I have had in rotation (Guide, Triumph). But I don't pronate, which might be the factor. I absolutely love the 4mm drop and the natural feel of it. The other thing though is that 5min/km is not a slow pace for me. 4:40-5:10 is my regular maximum, and Freedoms were the best at this pace. And the best part of it is that even half marathon doesn't seem like a threshold as the cushion is really good even for bigger distances.
That said, your review is great and thorough regardless. Keep them coming.
Cheers from Russia!
Really good in depth review. Though, I have the opposite experience with the previous version. Have had the Freedom 2 ISO in the past and it has been the fastest shoe I've had. But did not entirely like the fact that the heel cup was non existing.So had Kinvara 9 and 10 after these but now purchased the Freedom 3's because it seems to have better heel support. Maybe I would not have bought it if I'd seen your review:-) But given the fact that the Freedom 2 has been the fastest shoe for me, I doubt that the 3 will be the slowest. Bit strange though the difference in your data between the triumph and the freedom on shorter runs...would not expect this because they share the same sole. On longer runs it could be explained due to lack of stability.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the shoe. It might as well be my running style that just isn’t suited for the freedom. Hope it really works for you!!
Nice review. I picked this up today at 75% discount and it sounds like a shoe for me. For my low HR training, I find it hard to run slower. Sometimes extremely hard to run slow on purpose. The wisest running mentors swear by the ‘want to run faster then run slower’ which I do believe and my results back that. The most natural running shoe I have is the Atreyu Voyager and it’s a no frills all thrills shoe. I’ll be interested to see how the Freedom 3 holds up as I do like a more natural feel. Many have commented it’s not a fast shoe so they are in agreement with you. Months ago, I tried on the Freedom 3 and it felt great with the form fitting upper. I chose the Triumph 17 due to my use as mostly a colder season shoe. I love the Triumph’s versatility. I’ll anxious to get some mileage on the Freedom.
Sounds like it’s a shoe for you! Hope you like it!
Similar feeling. Same way I felt about the original Freedom which I loved for walking and was not great for running. I found the Freedom 3 (now I have more miles in it) to also feel much more like a slab of foam underneath (thought powerrun+ is better) and also to have very low volume all around - and I noticed it longer into the run with numb toes :(
Thanks for your comment! I'm just baffled that I find such a big difference between the Triumph and the Freedom when they have the same foam. Have a nice day, and remember to stay safe!
Very cool breakdown, Lars! Enjoyed the cinematography as well. Sticking with my triumph from the Saucony lineup this year 👍
Thanks Colin! I got a challenge from my brother on the b-roll- Didn't do to well on the challenge, but ended up with a lot of cool shots anyways :D Thanks for the comment, have a great run and stay safe!
Only have Freedom ISO 1 and Kinvara 9. My opinion: I train in Freedom, race in Kinvara. Not that Kinvara is a bad trainer - it's actually quite good! It's just not exciting? I just find the Freedom to be really fun to run in. (Actually it's my favorite shoe ever, and I'll likely replace with Freedom 3 or 4 in 2021. Also will likely pick up K11s too!)
I run 80% of my miles in this shoe. I agree that this isn't a fast shoe and for that exact reason I use it as my base-mile shoe. Another point is that you admitted that you use a stability shoe and have pain when you pronate which likely means that a shoe as neutral as the Freedoms is the very antitheses of a shoe that would work for you. All in all what I love most about this shoe is that it discourages fast running. In my observation its what most amateur runners suffer from, running too fast too often. Thanks for the video!
Nemo B thanks for the comment:) I generally don’t hurt too much in neutral shoes actually. Even the carbon shoes that I have taken on longer runs. I’m glad you like the shoe and it’s always nice to hear other people’s thoughts about this stuff.
Top quality production man. Very knowledgeable video. Would be great if you could make a video on your store, very curious. Keep it up! #goooooodmorniiingg 😂💪
Kruno Bakota thanks Kruno!! Have a great day!
I have the freedom iso. I picked up a while ago for a really good price I've just got back from my second 10k run this week in them. I know mine are the older version but I couldn't agree more with you, during my whole run everything seemed so much harder am not that much slower in them but my heart rate to is higher I can honestly run faster and feel a lot more comfortable in my hurricane 4's (I know you you rate them).
The freedoms for such a light shoe are by far the worst trainer in have and am a massive fan of saucony I have the ride the hurricane and a few pairs of the triumphs. I definitely won't be using mine freedoms much. Thank you for your review and your videos.
kevin cheesman hey Kevin. I’m sad they don’t work for you. Just remember that they can still be used for nice recovery shoes for slow days or used before a race day for extra mental surplus when you have the rights shoes on. Thanks for the comment!
@@LarsIvarHenriksen thanks for the advice your right I'll use them for sort slow days maybe or walking the dog haha thanks again
Thanks for that video! Can you review the Asics Novablast? in comparison the the sauconys - would be awesome!
Hey! Thanks for the comment! I want to try it out, but have so many shoes planned, and to be honest it just looks too unstable for me. It's like running on a marshmellow :D
Lars Ivar Henriksen I understand your point very good. But I think there is a little hype about this shoe, and I think it could pay off for you and your channel - especially if you compare with other shoes you already tested🙉
An awesome comparison would also be the ASICS Novablast with the ASICS Dynablast and the ASICS Roadblast😁
Thanks :D I can see your point. I actually really want to test it, but I also like being a guy who doesn't go for the hype shoes all the time. If I was I would only be doing Adidas, Nike and Asics basically, because they will give me so much more views than any other brands. I am considering it, but I might wait for the next version, because it will be old news in just half a year.
Lars Ivar Henriksen that’s just fine :-)
Freedom didn’t work for me either. My feet/soles were burning inside and I couldn’t continue running. Part of the reason is that I am used to shoes with more stable/firm soles, and while I do think I should strengthen my feet a bit, Freedom was just overkill.
Okey, sucks when you can't run in a shoe. I enjoy my runs in them as long as my goal is to run slower. I am using them more as sneakers now though. Thanks for the comment! Hope you get luckier on your next purchase!
Have you run half marathon distances in these? 4k 6k sounds like a warm up distance...
I did run other distances as well, but not a half marathon. I went up to 12 in these. They are comfy but not fast. It doesn’t matter which distance I would choose, I would always choose the Kinvara, the ride or the triumph over this shoe.
The freedom is a great shoe, durability, cushion, low drop, great fit and most importantly free! It is after all a training shoe and it does just that. Want to do fartlek, strides, long runs and workouts (hills and track) this shoe can do it all. Yes it is less stable than the kinvara but it is a true neutral shoe and it will work all your foot and leg muscles out. No I wouldn't run a race in it as the cushion level means you miss a little in ground feel. If you look at the saucony lineup come july the only question i really have is why does saucony need the kinvara anymore? The endorphin range take over half and full marathon distances. The type a and fastwitch have track workouts/5k 10k races covered. Now you have triumph for long runs and recovery and freedom for daily running in low drop and ride in 8mm drop. Where does the out of date kinvara lineup
Thanks for that awesome comment! I see your point, but I am not agreeing with you fully. I see that the Endorphin line will be dominate in the race/interval market, but I would cut the Freedom first and use the Ride for lighter daily trainings (the ride is faster and firmer). Kinvara is still a racer shoe for those who need a little more cushioning and for normal people who can't get that much out of a carbon/nylon plate shoe.
I am so looking forward to trying out some of the Endorphin shoes and comparing it to the Kinvara, who in my opinion still has a right to a place in the market. It's still Kinvaras best Saucony shoe to date, in my opinion :) But hey, that's why running shoes are so subjective. Again, thanks for you comment! Run safe!
@@LarsIvarHenriksen you can't compare the ride and the freedom as their drops are different 8mm/ 4mm. People want different drops due to Achilles issues and foot strike. Ride is better for heel strikers and flat feet the freedom is better for mid/forefoot strikers who want a free feeling trainer. The kinvara is a daily trainer with mild stability built in. The kinvara is no longer the racer and hasn't been for 2 plus years now. Either way whether we agree of not I see a difficult decision coming Saucony way in the next 2 years.
RUNNING BREAKDOWN I would definitely compare shoes with different drops, as combining both high and low drops shoes is great for running more injury free. There is no research saying that lower shoes only work or are meant for mid foot strikers as I am aware of at least. What is proven is that lower drop shoes make your heel hit the surface later, which means more impact on achilles and calf’s. Thus changing the drop would be great for everybody who wants to stay injury free. The Kinvara is lighter now compared to the first model. People seem to think nowadays that we are stronger than we were 10 years ago, we are not. The Kinvara is the same thing, only with everrun and it’s still an interval trainer and not a daily trainer. What we see from those who use Kinvara for daily miles at our store is almost always more injuries and because of that, less running in the long term.
@@LarsIvarHenriksen I agree people should use a mix drop of shoes as do I. I also suggest that the 70% of runners that heel strike put themselves at greater risk of injury because of this. Lower drop shoes more often than not have lower stack heels and thus don't work for heel strikers. I would suggest everyone to work on running form and speed before ruling out lower drop shoes. Like I said before the type a and fastwitch are interval shoes. The kinvara, freedom and ride are daily trainers and the triumph is the designated long run shoe. As a 5 year specialist in wear testing I can categorically prove this and have done in testing. The kinvara has received more cushion due to it's new position in the lineup as it drops back into a fast daily trainer position.
Thanks for the comment and the discussion. I love getting feedback from other people. We clearly are not agreeing, but that’s fine. I am basing my thoughts on this on what our physiotherapist says, the different research that I can find, what I test as well as customer feedback from several thousand customers each year. We have mostly runners from 25 and up to 80 in all sizes and we at our store never dream of giving anything but a very light person that is incredible strong runner a Kinvara for daily training. Ride is by far our most sold daily trainer from Saucony because of its lighter weight and great responsive feel. Have a great day, and remember to run safe :)
A very good movie, but an even better caps. Where can I get a caps like that?
It's limited edition and impossible to get if you don't already have it!
I planned to buy this shoe when my kinvara 11 retires. But after watching your review I now have doubts considering my feet pronates a bit, so I prefer a neutral shoe that is stable.
Wanted to try the PWRRUN+ midsole but I don't like heavy shoes like the triumph. Oh well...
aristodiga82 you only run in Kinvara? Wow! I would never last long with a light shoe like that, and usually all of our customers who do the same thing get really injured at some point. Heavy shoes is something you get used to it’s just that all lighter shoes feel more awesome, that doesn’t make them better for you. The triumph is the best new Saucony shoe this year. Good luck in your shoe shopping!! And thanks for your comment 🙏🏻
@@LarsIvarHenriksen eh? No. I have 4 shoes in my rotation 😅
what I meant was.. I'm planning to buy the freedom after my kinvara 11 retires which I use for my daily training runs with tempo pace . Other shoes in my lineup are the reebok floatride energy (regular daily runs), the skechers razor 3 (fast pace and race), and the hoka torrent for trail.
Yes, in some ways maybe I do need something like the triumph for recovery or easy paces. I'll think about it. Thanks!
Looks like you got all facets of your run covered. I just have a lot of customers who only run in the extremely light and see so many get injuries. Have a great day. Stay safe!
@@aristodiga82 how do you like the floatride energy? I'm considering them as a daily trainer, but I was never convinced by reebok as a brand :P
@@ruyveng great midsole ride. light enough for some tempo runs. regular easy to moderate pace trainings are fine. not too cushioned, but enough for your daily runs and some occasional long runs. Ever tried boost in adidas? it's like that but firmer, less bouncy, but lighter. I personally like them, but.. shoes depend on your personal stride pattern, so I won't guarantee they will fit all runners. They need some 'break-in' period though, because the midsole was a bit stiff at the midfoot to heel area. I think I enjoy them after about 30-40km of usage, and have become my staple shoes ever since.
So ... NOT a marathon shoe ??? (185 lb male, 3:45 marathon)
Really interesting review. I think I get the same thing, but I actually haven't compared the same workout side by side with different shoes. I've used it for speed work and just thought I was out of shape for running fast lol. Maybe it's the shoes. But also I'm probably out of shape lol.
Haha!! It might as well be that I am bad at running in softer shoes. I just know that I run slowly in the Freedoms.
Nice video. That shoe is far too flexible from the twist test.
Great video!
How do you compare this shoe to the Topo Zephyr?
Hey Rob. They are totally different il almost every sense of the way in m opinion.
Zephyr has a wide fit, a 5mm drop, and a soft foam that would have made them very similar. But the plate totally changes the dynamics of the shoe and makes it harder, more stable, and more effective to run with. I am fond of the Topo fit, but not in the zephyr.
The Freedom has a softer foam, and a softer upper and a similar drop (4mm). But because of the lack of stiffness its less table and less effective. But if you like a softer shoe and don't need the support I see a lot of people who like to run in it. I am not one of them though and find it terribly slow.
The stats I talk about in this video are fun to see. Because the Zephyr has the exact opposite effect on me and is one of the shoes that got the highest scores during that month's test when it comes to running the economy.
Hope you are having a great day and thanks for the comment.
It's probably because the drop is 4 mm compared to Triumph 17's 8 mm and NB 880V10 10mm
Wyatt / wyweb I have fast 4mm shoes as well (Kinvara is 4mm and it’s leagues faster). Topo Fli-lyte is one of them, and it’s 3mm. The drop isn’t such a big factor in my mind, it’s the lack of anything stable that makes me run slowly in them.
@@LarsIvarHenriksen makes sense. Great video!
Insightful! Thanks
Thanks Panos for the comment!
how do they compare to 880v10?
The 880 is far more stable. The freedom is a natural running shoe. Very different from each other. I run a lot better in the 880, which is my favorite shoe this year so far.
@@LarsIvarHenriksen thank you
thx for your review~~~~
Thanks for you comment! :)