This Is What Happens When Villains Are Done The WRONG Way
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2021
- Is Spider-Man the greatest video game hero of all time? • What Makes Spider-Man ...
A lot of people look back on Spider-Man 3 as one of the worst superhero installments ever made. Looking back, there is one big reason Sony's Spider-Man flopped, Too Many Villains. Though Spider-Man isn't the only movie franchise to suffer from this problem, it's a large reason this movie in particular gets the most hate of all. Will they repeat this problem in Spider-Man No Way Home?
Check out more Superhero Content from Nerdstalgic: • THIS Is How Superman S...
#Spiderman #Marvel #Nerdstalgic
Writer - Dave Baker
Editor - David Sadvari - Розваги
Is Spider-Man the greatest video game hero of all time? ua-cam.com/video/PLJDvB7GZe4/v-deo.html
Spiderman 3 didn't fail at everything; Bully Maguire will live on forever as a huge source of memeable quotes, right alongside Thanos.
I had to beat an old lady with a stick to get this comment
No villain spawned more memes than Nolan's Joker.
@@lonestarr1490 But he is no challenge to Lord Maguire.
@@lonestarr1490 Thanos was basically the centre of 2018 and 2019 memes
And the rent guy never forget the rent guy
If Venom hadn’t been forced into Spider-Man 3 I think the movie would have been a truly phenomenal film on par with 1 and 2. Venom should have been saved for Spider-Man 4.
That would be the smart way to introduce Venom, but Sony flew way too close to the sun on wanting him for the third movie.
I think the issue was also that the series was always planned to be 3 movies so Sony was flipping their shit because they realized they wouldn't get their marketable character for merchandise if that happened.
@@UsingGorillaLogic wasent there a 4th movie planned? I heard it was gonna introduce carnage
I heard in a different video which was about the issues of Tom Hardy's Venom, that both Spiderman 3 and Venoms issue are rooted in one producer, who was only a toy manufacturer prior to the movies, forcing his obsession with the Venom Character onto both films.
Directly impeding on the directors original vision.
Hence the issues.
@@GooseAtron5000 There was going to be a fourth film with Vulture, Mysterio, and Lizard as the villains.
Lesson of the day: when the studio gets involved in the creative process, bad things are going to happen.
Not necessarily always, look at Kevin feige and marvel.
@@7brucewayne7 Also Zack Snyder's unhinged creative process of the Snyder Cut
I like how Warner is learning the opposite from this right now. Letting directors create a movie with creative freedom is a good idea, who knew?
Yes
@@7brucewayne7 Kevin Feige is a one in a million guy. You cannot hope to use him as a blueprint, as Kathleen Kennedy has proven by failing so incomprehensibly thoroughly.
Me who actually likes Spider-Man 3: “I’m gonna put some dirt in your eye.”
Lmao I love all three equally for their own reasons :)
You are such a boy scout. When are you gonna give it a break
I think all the Spider-Man movies are great.
3 is good for fight scenes and the acting except for Topher Grace and the singing and dancing lmao.
Spiderman 3 is a masterpiece and peak cinema
Sandman should've just been Harry's hired experimental goon. Harry turns into the one spearheading the creation of supervillains to avenge his father’s death, leading to the formation of Sinister Six, then becoming the Goblin in the finale chapter.
So you want Six villains instead of 3?
@@hopebringer2348 yeah but sinister six is just 👌
@@hopebringer2348 6 villains involved in one connected story is very different from 3 separate villains with their own arcs. That's kind of one of the main points of this video.
You just described Amazing Spider-Man 2.
@@justinjacobson7495 that’s what I was trying to say
Even Stan Lee said we never find out whether the Sandman gets any type of redemption or whether he was ever able to help his daughter.
I just rewatched 3 today, I honestly don't hate it as much as everyone does.
its a ok movie, not as bad as people make it out to be.
Yeah, it’s a very enjoyable movie that you can see the full potential in with some writing changes. It really falls flat in the finale.
@@ComedyBros5 I liked the final battle, but it was built off shotty writing
It is amazingly average for a superhero movie,which isnt bad but isnt good for sure
Same
This is why whenever anybody says “multiple villains don’t work, look at Spider-Man 3”, I’m a bit dismissive. It’s not that multiple villains can’t work. It’s that multiple villains have to be centered on a common theme, a common conflict. When they’re all disparate and detached like they are here, the story suffers for it. But then you can do what No Way Home did and it works, brilliantly well, because even though there’s five villains with the legacy of a sixth looking over the whole thing, the theme is consistent among them all, so it works.
NWH doesn't even have any villain. All six of them are presented as artifacts in a museum. Spiderman 3 atleast put the legwork of giving all three villains proper arcs.
@@mrinalkantinath1271 and NWH doesn't need to put them in an arc because they already gone through one in their respective movie. That why it worked.
@@addonwizard2711 Exactly my point. They belong to movies that already gave them completion. It's just nostalgia merchandise this movie is.
@@mrinalkantinath1271 Nolstagia merchandise? Not really. I don't really have connections to Tobey or Andrew. I only seen their movie recently. But i still like NWH. It great, but is flawed in some aspect. So I don't know what do you mean by 'nolstagia merchandise'.
@@addonwizard2711 now, I don't even know what u liked in NWH!
I think No Way Home will pull it off. They don't have to set up all the villains and go through all of their backstories. Spiderman 3 and Amazing Spiderman 2 did.
Even Into the Spider-Verse had plenty of villains, but the movie knows that Kingpin is the main one.
@@michaelstrong5383 and that's how you do multiple villans. You can have a couple lackeys but the main should take center stage
@@shadowmilk3742 who do you think will be the main one tho? Comic accurate sinister 6 usually has Doctor Octopus being the one to form the team.
But it could also be Green Goblin because of his importance in the previous movies
@@corneliusquincydavenportic1913 I think none of them will. Considering loki's ending and the current direction of mcu I think it is fair to assume a proper introduction of Kang in this movie. What I am hoping to see is a huge team up of all the villains (except for goblin, he is tooo much of a wild card) and spideys against some huge threat - a weaker version of Kang these guys can actually beat, while "true" Kang will appear as a universal threat in avengers-multiverse endgame.
@@yfkyfyth Kangs intro will probably be Quantumania. There isn't a reason to "explain" things here when we have Multiverse of Madness coming
Problem with Spiderman 3 and Amazing Spiderman 2 is not too many villians. Its too many plotlines.
100% correct
It’s the same thing. These villains carry plot lines that are worth their own movie. It even worse in TASM 2’s case because they were hung up on trying to set their own cinematic universe
The timing of this right after the No Way Home trailer feels poignant
Was thinking the same thing
Really makes you wonder, how many villains will be in it lol. I'm thinking it all of movie history past lol
Plot twist: most of this villains if not all are just going to appear for one battle each and others just for a simple cameo all controlled by the still not revealed big baddie
Well this didn’t age well😂
@@Jason619x i bet you feel dumb now
I personally always liked Spider-Man 3 but fell into the crowd shitting on it. The scenes with Sandman, especially his intro as he gains his form were hard hitting. Despite all the issue with having to go between 3 villains Raimi definitely handled it better than many would have.
Same here. The only thing I wished was different would be Venom. Tobey should still get the symbiote, but the scene with Eddie becoming Venom should be at the end of the movie, teasing Spider-Man 4.
There's way too much bank robbery for my taste in the first Spider-Man trilogy. Spidey constantly goes after super villains who have nothing better to do than snatching some coins. What is he, a follerer?
@@lonestarr1490 it makes sense for sandman because he had nothing when he escaped as for the others I have no clue. They probably should have diversified the crimes but all in all I don't think the movie was terrible
@@lonestarr1490 Boy you never read the comics huh?
There was nothing to like about Spider-Man 3
I'm more forgiving with Spider-Man 3 now than I was when it first came out. It still has some stuff I'm not a fan of, like how Venom and Harry Osborn's Green Goblin was treated, but it's not the worst Spider-Man movie ever made.
That honor goes to Amazing Spider-Man 2.
Well said.
All my homies hate amazing spiderman 2.
I don't even remember most of that movie.
I'm gonna out myself as that one guy who loved The Amazing Spider-Man 2. It's my favourite Spider-Man film.
The amazing Spider-Man 2 is not even a bad movie, it had so much potential but the script was to messy. Andrew Garfield is underrated.
This is kind of a meh take on the “too many villains.” You say that The Dark Knight Rises had three villains which was an issue, but you completely ignore that the other two movies, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, had the same amount of villains. Batman Begins had Ra’s Al Ghul, Scarecrow, and Carmine Falcone. The Dark Knight had the Joker, Two-Face, and Salvatore Maroni. Both of these movies are phenomenal and have some of the most memorable villain portrayls DC has had. Too many villains to juggle isn’t the issue, the issue is that at least ONE of them have to be good. Spider-Man 3’s villains aren’t dealt with well.
Those movies structure the villains in a hierarchical way (which was one of the points against spiderman 3). Falcony is making deals with Scarecrow who works for Ra's. Joker creates Two face in one of his schemes to break down batman, and immediately presents himself as someone stronger than moroni putting the joker at the top of the hierarchy. That hierarchical structure is critical when telling these comic book story's as it allows for a natural progression of power and events, where as in spiderman 3 the villains all stand on their own arc doing their own things.
Not really. The Dark Knight is considered to be one the the greatest movies of all time. But still the late revelation and abrupt death of Two Face is still considered one the movie biggest flaws. Spiderman & Spiderman 2 was good because it focuses on one villain (Goblin & Octo) giving plenty of screentime and development which made their death/capture impactful
On the other hand, Batman Begins and Spiderman 3 has many villains and didn't develop them enough for the ending to hit deep
The Dark Knight & The Dark Knight Rises is still fine though, it's just that having Dent and Talia as secondary villains with not enough screentime to develop them for their eventual death makes the ending less impactful
Also, Maroni & Falcone are just side characters for Batman to punch. Not really at the status of villain. I don't agree with Nerdstalgic classifying them amongst Joker, Dent, Scarecrow & Ra's
All 3 Dark Knight movies did it well, though Scarecrow was underused.
@@ZanSav When you put it that way, those other villains seem more like side characters than the actual villain of the story. Essentially, they are just goons with names.
To elaborate, the story is about the hero's conflict with the villain. Those others were just supporting cast.
@@RandomPerson-nd2ey I didn't mean that at all man. The structure of power in the antagonists has nothing to do with whether they are main or side characters. They are just characters in the world and that's the magic of the Nolanverse Imo. How each character exists in its realism regardless of main, side, supporting, whatever.
I don’t know, I just love Bully Maguire. I couldn’t stand living in a world without it. Without Spider-Man 3, there’s no Bully Maguire.
Tobey Maguire:they love me
Harry's redemption arc was handled pretty well. Could've used more time though, same with Sandman's arc. Sandman was the best part of Spider-man 3, that & the final battle.
No Way Home: hold my magic
We’ll see what they’ll do with villains for no way home
Unless it is gonna be 3 hours long like endgame, then they are gonna need some sort of villain team up like the sinister six. otherwise the movie wont work
@@tuckergrimes4189 We have three implied villains and two explicit ones, there's no way we're not going to get a sixth and make it Sinister 6
@@aneonfoxtribute Would definitely help harmonizing the storylines.
@@tuckergrimes4189 Hey I remember you lmao. We've talked through comment sections of other videos before. Probably something Halo related haha. I remember cuz I asked you once if your name was Tucker for Lavernius Tucker and Grimes for Rick Grimes 😂
@@aneonfoxtribute I think the sixth is gonna come as a post credits scene. Like the 5 are in prison or something after being defeated, then some alarms go off, the guards leave and a sixth villain says something foreboding before walking out of the shadows. Then I can see the six being the focus on a future Avengers film then it’s revealed they are just foot solders for a bigger villain similar to Loki and Thanos in the first Avengers film
The church scene would of been perfect as a post credit scene with venom jumping into camera to finish 👌
Nerdstalgic: There's too many villains in Spider-Man 3
Sam Raimi: I missed the part where that's my problem
Haha!
Sony not Sam Rami. He wanted only sandman
Welp, next Tom Holland Spiderman we got more villains. 😂
@@clashcon11 lol its going to be a cluster LOL
After the release of no way home, these two movies do the same "many villains" thing, though NWH does it masterfully. It takes these 5 villains, who don't really compliment each other, and makes them work due to Peters "moral mission." They all represent a part of Peters code: to try and help people whenever possible, even if they themselves are trying to kill him. It does what this movie and others like it couldn't: have more than one villain in a movie and make it work by keeping the themes consistent.
Actually there's 4 villains of the movie. Harry, Sandman, Venom, and Peter's cringy yet still hilarious emo personality.
Actually there's 4 villains of the movie. Harry, Sandman, Venom, and the studio getting in the way of Sam Raimi's creative process.
Theres actually 5 this includes Mr dicktovich aka Rentman
There's actually 6, all of the above AND THIS DAMN DOOR!
@@ajwrestling7855 lmao! I forgot about that. 😆
Emo peter wouldn't count as a villain, just an asshole
I must be the only guy that actually likes Harry's Goblin costume
It was certainly better than ASM2
So do I (😉).
Lol. So there's 30 of us!
I think so
i was like 12 when i saw the movie and i did some modification on my bicycle inspired by harry's costume, it was crappy with the trash materials i used, still i was proud
The Dark Knight had Scarecrow, Joker, The Mob, and Crooked Cops as villains.
Batman Begins had Ras Al Ghul, The League Of Shadows, Falcone, Scarecrow, Bruce's parents murderers, crooked cops and the released patients of Arkham. The number of villains isn't the problem, it's how its executed.
There was a hierarchy in those movies the other villains worked for the main antagonist in both those movies in Spider-Man 3 sandman, venom and hobgoblin are all given arcs and stories etc
@@davidajayi6516 Most of those aren't even villains but plot points that go towards the bigger picture and motivation.... S-M 3, individual arcs on top of everything else that is going on in that move. it's bloated, melodramatic and quite boring. I heard a point before, if you must include Venom (While it won't be true to the comic but hear me out).... MJs ASTRONAUT boyfriend in the previous film, they could have just used him as that would have some set up to it and he would have motivation against Parker. He comes back from space and he managed to get it whilst out there instead of introducing an entire different character.
Lol dude u really missed Harvey dent from Dark Knight?
And yet you get Ra's, Falcone, and Scarecrow in Batman Begins and all the villains serve their purpose, make their point, have an important part in the story, and don't overstay/understay their welcome.
It is often the ones with over abundant villains, or poorly managed writing, which turn out to be the end of the franchise in that iteration.
Or studio interference.
Okay, but the Nolan batman trilogy is how you do multiple villains per film brilliantly. It can definitely be done well, so I'm still excited for No Way Home, but maybe a lil more apprehensive now.
Some people say that Two-Face was wasted in The Dark Knight because he had so few screen time after turning into Two-Face and didn't really plot that much. But in my opinion, Two-Face has never been among the strongest villain characters in the Batman universe (he basically robs banks and flips coins - that's it) and Nolan made more of him than could be expected.
For The Dark Knight Rises, despite its flaws, the villain hierarchy is solid. You never actually come to think of there being too many villains, because, for the most part, all revolves around Bane.
About No Way Home: I think the most fundamental thing they have to get right is Peter Parker being the focal point again, just as he was in Homecoming and even more in Far From Home. He always pushed the plot - not as he intended to do, most of the time, but nevertheless. That's what makes those movies so compelling to me.
If they manage to pull that off a third time, then there's not much left to worry about, I'd say.
@@lonestarr1490 100% agree with what you're saying. Two-face is basically just a mob boss with a gimmick, his tragic backstory is what makes him interesting and Nolan did that amazingly. They built up such a strong mythology of villains by the third film that even though it was a weaker movie, there was something so special about how well all the villains interacted with Bats, Gotham, and each other.
And Tom Holland is so good as Peter, that's probably why the first two films were so good as you said. Fingers crossed it lives up to them and they keep the focus on him. 🤞 though tbh, even if the film isn't as good, it's gonna be one of the first live action superhero films to deal with the concept of a multiverse in a big way which is super exciting!
Marvel knows what they're doing, Sony didn't and still doesn't.
@LoneStar @HannahStubbs To me, in the MCU Spidey movies, the focus was more on the villains and their beefs with Tony Stark, not so much Peter Parker.
Lmao you lost all credibility when you said Dark Knight Rises is good. One of the worst superhero films of all time. Batman was a bitch and joke. I would rather watch Batman and Robin then watch that dumpster fire. At least Batman and Robin is funny.
Whoever this narrator is, I like them a lot. I would love to hear more from them
This narrator is good, yes, but my personal favorite is the other narrator
It doesn't feel like Nerdstalgic without the original narrator.
@@RR-in7do yeah! I agree
@@bonesplinter3587 You can hear his passion for film in his voice when he narrates. This new one just sounds like every other narrator that is just reading a script.
1:41 speaking of The Hero with A Thousand Faces, one of my favorite albums (Heroica by the band Sight) dropped in 2019 is a concept album about a hero's journey following that same structure and I believe was inspired by the book. Really good if you're ever in the mood for some background prog rock music.
I despise when people say there are "wrong" ways to do art. What you're really doing is wanting your nerd itch scratched.
Weirdly, I think Eddie Brock/Venom’s place in the story makes 100% thematic sense for the story the film is trying to tell: Peter darkly succumbing to vanity and vengeance. Sandman forces Peter into these dark places, and Harry’s just makes sense given SM2. I agree there are too many villains given the length of the movie, but individually they could all work great!
If they wanted Harry in the movie they could have easily made Harry the mastermind of sorts, manipulating both Sandman and Spiderman to be at odds with each other. Have the main villain be Sandman, and we know by the end Harry was behind it because he was trying to kill Spiderman, tying in with him finding out in the second movie, which they can't walk back from.
Cue credits, next movie is about Harry as the main villain and we get him as the green goblin now. Then for the next movie after that they could have done Venom as his own standalone movie.
So yeah basically we could have gotten three separate movies from all three arcs if Sony were smart and just spaced them out, not force Venom to be shoved in there too.
I just realised how freaky it is that Spider-Man and X-Men hit their highs and lows very close to each other.
X-Men - 2000
Spider-Man - 2002
X2 - 2003
Spider-Man 2 - 2004
The Last Stand - 2006
Spider-Man 3 - 2007
Late 2000s were a dark time
The Dark Knight vs Amazing Spider-Man 2
Main villain: Joker = Electro
Friend who becomes a villain: Harvey Dent = Harry Osborn
Cameo villain: Scarecrow = Rhino
Dead love interest: Rachel Dawes = Gwen Stacy
I still can’t help but love this film just for the cheese of it
I hope they consider this movie when making No Way Home. But I’m kinda counting on Sony messing something up again. I mean, they don’t have a good track record
When people are criticizing a movie before it comes out
when you don't watch the video, but comment first
While i don't doubt that worry is behind the thought process behind the video, the only spiderman actually mentioned is Raimi's.
@@Kaimax61 no need to watch this garbage half assed channel
@@paveantelic7876 spiderman 3 was bad btw
We are in 2006?
I reject the notion that Spider-Man 3 has too many villains. Batman Begins had several main villains and was a great movie. The problem is that Spider-Man 3 doesn't synthesise it's elements effectively. It's easier to synthesise elements when there are fewer of them, but various elements is not the real problem.
i grew up loving the prequels and spider-man three and it’s funny to see that everyone thought they were bad
Kids often have bad taste and ignorant opinions
@@DoctorJammer cool
While yes there are plenty of examples of how to poorly execute multiple villains, there are examples when multiple characters/villains are pulled off properly. One great example is Into the Spiderverse where we had a sinister group of six villains and that movie is praised to being one of, if not, the best comic book movie of all time
Since I only have a passing familiarity with the comics, only three of those villians stood out as more than stylish goons: Kingpin, Doc Ock, and The Prowler.
As TGDS mentioned, Kingpin is clearly the primary antagonist. All other villians are under him in the hierarchy.
Following that is Prowler for his importance in Miles' personal storyline. While he works for Kingpin he has narrative importance outside of the main threat.
Doc Ock is the lieutenant and essentially represents the whole pack of goons as well as being the exposition dump. She's a well-defined character, but she has no arc outside of bouncing off of Kingpin.
Edit: To clarify the point, Spider-Man 3 attempted to give all three main villians independent arcs with minimal interaction between them. This divided the story instead of letting the villians' stories support each other
_Spider-Verse’s_ villains were such weaksauce, as were the extended cameos of the rest of the Spider gang.
@@Wired4Life2 Sometimes it's easier to tell stories in TV shows rather than a movie. A good example is Batman the series and Teen Titans.
"Hello Peter"
YESSSSSS 🤩🤩
The fact that this video essay about having too many villains is a risky move, is uploaded right after the trailer for spiderman no way home which has 6 villains.
There’s actually 4 villains in this. Peter’s ego is the main villain in this movie
Your videos have good pacing, great research and passion for what you are talking about. Excellent job
Thank you, that means a lot
Spider-verse had a ton of new characters that didn't have the set up that these spidies and villains do. It is about knowing how to use them not artificially limiting or increasing them.
That's why the "origin narration" works so well with the Spider-People. They may look different from one another, but the only thing that never changed is that they were bitten by a radioactive spider and lost their loved ones.
There is literally nothing in this video I haven’t heard before. This is like the most vague, surface level critique of the film. Sorry to be brutally honest, and I love the passionate presentation and sharing of this information, maybe it’s an old video. I’ll just ignore this video, I like all the other Nerdstalgic videos.
He just posted this video bcz Spider-Man is being trend that's all.
Daayyyuummm
This has given me so much to think about in terms of how villains should interplay with each other and the lead...thank you!!
Ideally the story would focus on Harry as the main villain, who seeks revenge on Spider-Man, and is pulling strings on Sandman, who is the more powerful character.
At the same time Peter possesses the symbiote suit, which helps him fight villains, but using methods which cause Peter to reject it in the finale.
Eddie becoming Venom would be a huge cliff hanger and Spider-Man 4 would be the most anticipated film for the upcoming years.
Why it faild?
Answer: Avi Arad (the guy who FORCED Sam to put venom in it)
Tbh, spiderman 3 was my favorite of the sam raimi trilogy. Seeing that Harry and Peter finally reconciled with each other and Peter finally having closure with Uncle Ben's killer was a good ending. Sure, the Venom part was a bit forced since he's only seen 1/4 of the episode but other than that, it really gave us a good ending.
This, like all the videos I've seen of yours, is very well done. Thank you!
I forgot your channel existed. Haven't seen one of these since the Aunt Viv video. Can't wait to binge!
It's not that bad a movie tbf, just underwhelming after comparing it with the first 2 movies. It still had pretty great stuff
If we're being honest I would say Blade in many ways kicked off the super hero craze we see now.
I mean that's exactly what OG Nerdstalgic said in the last video. I'm torn. No, this channel is torn.
No, blade isn't a superhero movie
Nobody saw Blade when it first came out
@@blackguyofthesouth2161 that's a big lie because the movie theater I saw it in was packed. And it made 153 million dollars globally in late 1990s money.
@@paveantelic7876 I disagree he's a superhero as well as an anti hero.
I'm not sure how much it makes sense from the logical way, but some of those problems talked about in this video, actually made the film different and unique. Which made it interesting to watch and it felt like you couldn't predict some plots as easy as compared to other movies.
3:55 *why are you looking at me like that step-dad?*
I never understood why Spider-Man 3 got so much hate yet the newer MCU movies gets praise with ratings above 80% on rotten tomatoes. Maybe it was ahead of it’s time?
Cause spider-man 3 is not ahead of its time. Most mcu movies at least are coherent with clear storylines. Spider-man 3’s not bad at all and has so many redeeming qualities but the script is messier than 90% of mcu movies cause it’s too convoluted;
You’d think after all these years studios would learn their lesson about interfering
They’d rather blame someone else really
Anyone else find it ironic that they described Spider-Man and X-Men as starting the super hero craze (0:50) when the video just two days ago was all about Blade being the "true start to the franchise?"
Not a bash on the channel or anything, just stood out to me as amusing.
I have to say the one film that made multiple villians work near perfctly was Spiderman Homecomming, which included: Vulture, Shocker I, Shocker II, the Tinkerer and Sorpion (the latter was only teased). But it managed to do this by having a villian hierarchy all the “extra” villians serve the main story.
the scene with Harry was good and wasnt forced bro, big miss there
based and redpilled
timestamp?
@@Robby_Rob idk like toward the end
@@Robby_Rob 7:30
I was about to say, you almost forgot the 4th villain of Spiderman 3 - Sony
Great job you guys.
How is Harry Osborne a "dark reflection" of Peter? In the end, he literally saved his life.
For the longest time I thought a lot of villains was a good thing
It can be but need to be executed well(ex. Into the Spider-Verse)
If anything, they should’ve done 2 villains with Sandman and then Harry Osborn Green Goblin, and maybe Harry and Peter team up to take on sandman. It would’ve cut out the venom arc completely and then Harry, who had been building to for 3 movies, and sandman would’ve been more deceloped
Then you lose one redemption arc making pointless the character to be there, the thing that happened with tasm2 in which you have two forgettable stand ins
@@ignaciocorbillon1850 but they could’ve just done that in a 4th movie. The only thing that cancelled the raimi verse was spiderman 3’s poor reception.
I don't know if they fired Raimi, he was already exhausted. They didn't fire Tobey, even if they had a secret parallel project in the works. They canceled it when Tobey called it quits because it didn't work for him.
@@ignaciocorbillon1850 Raimi quit on his own as he just couldn't keep up the set release date for SM4 which was 2011. That and Sony was possibly interfering again
I don’t know why people make such a big deal if there is more then one villain, multiple villains aren’t the issue in bad movies, it’s bad writing and directing, and studio meddling.
I’ve heard a lot of people say they think Venom was misplaced. I honestly think Sandman was. His whole arc with being uncle Bens real killer completely undermines the first film. And I personally wanted Venom way more!
Haven’t been to this channel in a bit, what happened with your voice, new microphone?
It’s not him idk what’s up with it
They have two different narrators
@@blackguyofthesouth2161 ohhhh I got you, thanks
@@davidzea1669 It's confusing as hell for me, too. I'm subscribed to two other channels being called Nerd-something with roughly the same focus and style of videos and I've a hard time telling them apart already.
So weird hearing someone other than Tyler but this new guys voice is nice too lol.wonder what his name is? 🤔
Hey my man what’s the background music in the beginning it smacks
"Moves tend to fail when they have more than one villian"
Raiders of the lost Ark: 👀
I wonder if it's more specifically an issue in superhero vs supervillain type of movies, where it's more one-on-one, meant to mimick a serial comic book, than other types of movies.
Spiderman homecoming has a lot of villians and characters and did well.
Yes a whole lot of villians
That’s why they should split it into two, still good film tho
They did that in the 60s too with the Spider-Man cartoon and with Superman animated in the 90s. Both respectively lost me at two different decades 70s and 90s. Too many villains. I knew this when I was young and a bit older.
A villian is a soul mate that challenges our heroes, pushing them to be a better version of themselves, or to look inward and opens the hero's perspective and the experience helps them grow as both a hero, and as a person.
I am probably in the minority but Spiderman 3, despite all its issues, was much better than the Garfield and Holland films. No Way Home looks promising for me thanks to the Raimi OGs
I don't have much faith in No Way Home, especially now that they are recycling old villains from much better Spiderman movies than MCU was able to produce.
I just hope they don't ruin Doc Oc or Green Goblin.
@@lop1652 👎👎👎👎
@@lop1652 Raimi's Spidey films are yet to be topped imo. I'm still gonna give No Way Home a chance. Not a fan of Holland or Zendaya. My only reason for watching it would be, like I said before, the Raimi OGs. Tobey should get the most incredible reaction when he shows up in the movie, he deserves it. Really hope that they don't spoil his appearance in any of the trailers.
@@omkarkulkarni3943 I feel the same way. Honestly i just wanted to drop MCUs Spiderman, till Doc Oc and Green Goblin showed up.
@@lop1652 hopefully Dr Strange doesn't turn out to be Stark's replacement
Spider-man 3 is my favorite of them all, and I think there should be more villains on the movies, mainly the MCU.
OMGG it’s a midweek Nerdstalgic episode!! Wooop wooop
I'm pretty sure Into the Spider-Verse had more villains (or just villains and minibosses).
Kingpin
Doc Ock
Tombstone
Scorpion
Prowler
Imagine being the Sony exec who ruined both Spider-Man and That 70s Show with a single decision.
Coming for MCU
This comment is underrated
Topher wanted to leave That 70s Shows even if he wasn't cast as Eddie Brock.
Spider-Man 3 was incredible, I loved every second of it.
Sam Raimi claims that the last movie had too much studio interference, which is his way of trying to fool the public. All Spiderman movies have/and will always have a lot of studio interference. If S3 was a "critical" success, Raimi would have took all the credit.
Spiderman 3 was a great movie tho man ngl
They should’ve eliminated Sandman. The rest was good: keep the New Goblin as the villain of the first part of the movie, than Bully Maguire becomes his own antagonist, and at the end Eddie becomes Venom, giving Peter and Harry an opportunity to forgive each other.
People like the shit on this movie but when you adjust for inflation it's pretty much tied as the highest grossing Spider-Man movie.
Spiderman and XMen alone DID NOT kick off the MCU. Blade's success a couple years BEFORE those movies helped to kick off the MCU. Blade surprise success led to Xmen and then Spiderman being greenlit. I know people will argue that most people didn't even know that Blade was a comicbook movie, but that doesnt matter. He was a Marvel property which was made into a very successful movie during a time when Marvel was going bankrupt. It played a big part in helping the company and its characters make a comeback, all leading to the MCU we see today.
How to criticize a film before it comes out without telling us you're criticizing a film before it comes out..
Don’t care what anyone says I love this movie
It should have been Venom & Sandman. Then they should have made Harry Osbourne stay his friend, then at the end if the movie, implied he is going to become Hobb Goblin. Have him dye his hair blonde, wear a letter man collegiate jacket, and studying his father's old work.
I disagree with the hired hand or goon methods suggested. For Harry it's super personal. He only got help from Dock Ock because he was ambushed and he wanted revenge on Spider-Man. Harry would absolutely feel like he needed to do it himself.
I think it's pretty clear by this point, that Sam Raimi didn't have full creative freedom in the third movie. It's painful visible the problems with pacing and some decisions that probably are in the movie because of external interference. However I disagree with your point that they do not have a unified cohesive theme. The whole story in the 3rd movie is about forgiveness. Peter had to learn to forgive himself and forgive Sandman, but to do so, he had to learn it from Harry, who had the courage to forgive Peter first. Sam Raimi found in Venom (forced upon him) an opportunity to show the worst side of Peter Parker and to extend that "forgiveness" theme onto Mary Jane and Aunt May as well.
Also, Bully Maguire is the best meme from any movie ever.
Yes I believe Raimi did the best with what he was given.
Of all the things they complain about, nobody complained about the fact that star wars episode 1 the phantom menace has a space battle, ground battle, and lightsaber battle AT the same time. Proves it can be done well, even if difficult.
Can't believe I forget about this channel 😅but anyways good stuff as always ☺️👍✨
I am still learning nuances of English, so can anynone explain what "quo" meanis in the context (and in general) of "status quo of yore", please ?
I still never understood why everyone hated SM3, I thought it was just childhood nostalgia but recently rewatched it and still loved it. I liked the first 2 more but it’s never been this “terrible movie” that everyone else calls it to me
Me too, I thought the movie was good, except for Venom.
What if: Harry Osborne got the Symbiote and we didn't need to have Eddie Brock or knockoff Green Goblin in the first place.
Sony: "great job so far, BUT we've got an idea, well, instructions."
And let's not even get started on The Amazing Spider-Man 2 and its gallery. It almost learned from 3's mistakes (and tried to combine the villains' goals as suggested in this video) but it was still too bloated and didn't have the right emotional backing for the Goblin to appear AT ALL. And yes, I'm ignoring the direction they took with Peter because that wasn't gonna change from Amazing 1
Yeah Amazing Spider-Man 2 is much worse than Spider-Man 3.
It also had the problem of the action scenes being moved so fast(probably to shove more in time-wise) that during parts of the movie I literally couldn't see what was happening. The fight between him and Franco flying around the city comes to mind. It was kind of a CGI nightmare, even in a landscape of superhero films.