Get 45+ Project Ideas & Learn to Make $$ Woodworking: www.skool.com/731woodworks If you're serious about growing your business - Sawdust Startups - www.skool.com/sawduststartups Click "Read more" to see all of the tool links. Watch Next: The Hater's Guide to Festool - ua-cam.com/video/a932Lw_UWvk/v-deo.html Tools in this Video: My Tool Company - Faith Valley Tools - faithvalleytools.com Festool ETS 150/5 (best for woodworking) - thetoolnut.sjv.io/Gmxb46 Festool ETS 150/3 (best for vaneer/finishing) - thetoolnut.sjv.io/EKL0P9 Festool ETS 125/3 (finish sander) - thetoolnut.sjv.io/ZQoVv0 Festool Rotex - thetoolnut.sjv.io/VmJOvJ Festool Dust Extractor - thetoolnut.sjv.io/oqxNve Festool Bluetooth Adapter - thetoolnut.sjv.io/WqZOzO Festool Cordless 36v Track Saw Combo Kit - acmetools.pxf.io/LXj01V Festool Corded Track Saw - thetoolnut.sjv.io/Y9XVvK Festool MFT Table - thetoolnut.sjv.io/da60j2 Festool Kapex Miter Saw - thetoolnut.sjv.io/jWxX9e Festool Domino DF500 (smaller projects) - thetoolnut.sjv.io/9gmVZY Festool Domino DF700 (larger projects)- thetoolnut.sjv.io/rQ9Eyd Festool Domino with Tenons Combo - thetoolnut.sjv.io/Y952vq TSO Guilde Rail Square - tsoproducts.com/guide-rail-squares/grs-16-guide-rail-square/?ref=731WOODWORKS Tracksaw Arbor tDust Cover - wittworks.shop/collections/all?page=4 Festool Sandpaper - thetoolnut.sjv.io/EKL0vW 3M Xtract Sandpaper - amzn.to/47kANrr My Workbench Plans - www.731woodworks.com/store/p/workbench-plans My Miter Station Build Plans - www.731woodworks.com/store/p/miter-station-build-plans Shop Project Plan Bundle - www.731woodworks.com/store/p/shopplanbundle I get commissions for purchases made through links in this post. It helps the channel and costs you nothing extra. The full list of tools and supplies I recommend can be found on my website: www.731woodworks.com/recommended-tools Greatest Free Gift I've Ever Received: story4.us/731Woodworks Join the TUBAFOUR NATION through Patreon to get access to exclusive member only behind the scenes videos, member only livestreams, exclusive discounts, and other cool member only perks! www.patreon.com/731woodworks Some other useful links: Daily Tool Deals on my website: www.731woodworks.com/tool-deals Subscribe to our email Newsletter to get new content alerts, sales, and more! mailchi.mp/7e44c16eefdc/731-woodworks-email-newsletter Easy to Follow Build Plans - www.731woodworks.com/store Outlaw's Board Butter - So Good it Should be Outlawed: www.731woodworks.com/store/boardbutter
Another big advantage of the 150mm sanders over the 125 is the multi jet 2 pad which removes so much more dust. Also, the rotex is an amazing polisher as well.
Have had Festool track saw since 2011. Amazing tool and quality. Remains my favorite as well. Interesting videos, keep going! Best regards from Estonia!
I would love to own a few Festool tools but I can't afford any of them with my fixed income. I apply many work-arounds using other tool manufactures for my DIY/hobbyist projects. Still, I think the two best Festool tools, but still overpriced, are the Domino DF500 or DF700 and the Cordless 36v Track Saw Combo Kit Matt, thank you for this informative video.
The 3mm vs 5mm is about scratch pattern. 5mm is aggressive for grits above 120. There is room for both and I would not relegate a 3mm sander to veneers and finishes only. 3mm will make it easier to manage 'pigtails' as you move higher in the grits.
Couldn't agree more...the 3mm orbit gives a super fine finish on larger areas and, in my experience, is not significantly slower than my 150mm Rotex in standard random orbit mode. If a surface is very uneven, I use the Rotex to level it and the ETS150 to provide the final finish.
@@davidhull2060 the belt sander with the floating frame is really handy. I was fortunate enough to get the big puppy (BS105) when it was available but the 75 is good too.
Been using the ETS EC150/5 for the past month or so and it's been an absolute champ. Expensive but totally worth the cost - add the extractor and a respirator seems unnecessary!
Okay I own a bunch of Festool but I will say the Kapex miter saw is awesome. Also it fits the JET Flip Top Benchtop Stand(hard to find one that fits) I was able to put a dewalt 735x planer on one side and the Kapex on the other side. Worth it for space saving
The vaccuminghose is actually a long cone in shape and to add in info is that it doesn’t twist as a normal hose as well, so it rarely wraps around a table leg. The cone shape is said to be the tech behind the great sunction and it is very quiet. The most quiet one I have had… and one can use it to clean dust off and clean your clothes after working by reversing the outlet
I just got yesterday 2 of the brand new 8ah batteries and their new two drawer systainer. I plan to run the batteries on the sys 50 tablesaw. The tablesaw is cheap for what it does. The thing is amazing, can’t wait to run the new batteries.
My 1st festool was the PRO 5 LTD 125 sander $99 , then the 150/5 and the mini dust extractor, RO90 , TS55 track saw , MFT/3 table ( my favorite) then the 420 jigsaw …. Next but down the really long road the domino 500 and there miter saw ,(all corded) I have plenty of Ridgid 18v/12v and 2 Bosch 12v cordless. My 150/5 is my most used sander.
oh ok well my own comparison was with the dewalt drills, great power and great for installations but a bit abrupt. Or the little Bosch gsr, my favourite machine but not subtle enough sometimes
@@paulhopkins1905 no, your Ryobi DOES NOT offer the same precise control as a Festool. You have never used a Festool driver in a precise control situation and you are talking out of your backside. If you want maximum power for your money you shouldn't buy Festool, stick to your local big box discount brands.
@@kevinpunter7960 I've used the Fescult drill and driver you absolute cork sniffer. They aren't special at all and are underpowered and way overpriced.
@@paulhopkins1905 yeh, yeh defend your childish bias as much as you want. I find creatures like you extremely amusing. Power and price are your problem? Enjoy your Ryobi stuff - perfect for you.
I don’t hate festool, there’s just a reality that I have a small hobby shop and can’t justify spending that much money on tools. What I hate is how people start UA-cam channels showing woodworking, it becomes a tool review channel, and they end up promoting festool. Please, at least have some balance and do both.
After watching one of your previous Festool reviews I got the track saw and small sander. Then the small dust extractor. The tracksaw, WOW! I was using Milescraft system but my Ryobi cordless saws did not work well with it. I'm still using the black hose the came with tracksaw, should I upgrade?
You should do a review of the Fein dust extractor. I have one and have been impressed by the performance and reasonable cost compared to the Festool extractors.
You do need to try the drills. The older CXS is loved by pretty much anyone who tries it. Festool updated it to the CXS 12 and introduced the CXS 18; both are excellent. Trigger control is fantastic. While it takes some getting used to, I now love the electronic clutch. On the Systainers, have a look at the Sortainer three drawer. I fit the contents of one Packout three drawer and Packout two drawer in ONE of the Sortainer three drawer units. Yep, they're expensive (relative), but I'll be damned if it doesn't hold a ton of stuff. Festool 200119 SYS 4 TL-SORT 3 Drawer Sortainer is the one.
The "12" on the new CXS-12 is just marketing. It's actually 10.8V like the older CXS - AND EVERY OTHER "12V" LITHIUM TOOL. I guess they were annoyed that someone might say, "Ours is 12V, but Festool is only 10.8." Also, every 20V tool is really 18V when it's running, every 24V is 21.6V, every 40V is 36V, etc.
@@pdfads I had replied yesterday but it must have glitched. I wasn't referring to battery voltages. The old CXS 12, which everyone referred to as simply "CXS", has a brushed motor and mechanical clutch. The new CXS 12, which people do refer to as the CXS 12, has a brushless motor and electronic clutch. I hate the word "literally" since it's overused, but in this case "12" is literally in the product name.
I agree with you on most of this except for two things. Systainers may look like they are thin and fragile, but they are actually very strong, especially when the lid is closed. In twenty years I have only broken one...and that fell nearly twenty feet from a scaffold. They are strong enough to pass through the German postal system without further protection in transit. That is how they are sent for repair...you just place a label on the box and pay the postage. The other area of disagreement is Festool cordless tools. The range is not vast like Milwaukee or Dewalt, because they are not aimed at every trade. Their core range is excellent....the combi drills and drill/drivers are precision tools, providing accuracy and finesse, rather than brute force. Likewise the cordless circular saws, jigsaws and multitool are ideal for super accurate cutting tasks, and their sanders are every bit as good as their corded counterparts. I use my Dewalt kit for heavy duty outside jobs...the Festool kit is used in the workshop or in installation tasks, where it excels. Nothing looks more impressive to a client than you rolling up with a neat stack of systainers on your extractor with everything working together and keeping their home dust and mess free. That is worth far more than the cost of the tools in dollars.
I strongly disagree. I love my systainers, I use them daily. that said, I have broken a box dropping a half stack about 12 inches to the pavement off a tailgate (latch had flipped from latched, to closed, in transit and I came away holding the top box of my stack while the bottom roughly 2 feet or so dropped). most of the stack survived, but one of the boxes broke in 3 places. the front corner of the lower box got cracked vertically, One of the hinge ears on the lid broke completely off, and both corners of the lower box had significant cracking at the area around the hinge attachment points. It wasn't worth trying to replace the broekn parts. I just salvaged what I could and tossed it. The latches wear out regularly (stop holding themselves in the correct orientation), and In the last 3 years, I have had at least half a dozen latch failures completely (the latch side blows out completely). The top handle connection to the top of the box is a major wear point. Parts are also extremely expensive. a new latch for a box is often like 20% the price of the box, plus shipping as they aren't commonly stocked in a lot of places that sell the boxes. If you put any significant weight in them on a daily basis, I strongly recommend you use a hand truck to reduce strain on the latches and lids. I also don't heavily load my stacks. I have 2 stacks I carry all over (I use them basically every day, unload them, load them, and often move them between floors of a jobsite). Each weighs probably 50-60 pounds, total, and is like 30 inches or so Tall. I am not wasting space, but I am not filling these with bulk nails or anything. Don't get me wrong, I am super happy with them, but I use JB-weld on my boxes on a semi regular basis. they could be significantly more heavily built, specifically, the latch could be more wear resistant, the outer band could be more substantial on the latch, and the hinge points could be reinforced heavily.
@FloridaMan.84 I struggle with price of festool. I still think the sander is worth it. Only festool I own and it is night and day to the other sanders I had been using.
I love Festool sanders especially their ets 6 inch sanders! They are well worth the money since they fatigue your hands after a lot of sanding. One thing nobody talks about is the Festool hand planer. It’s a great tool, and you can do a lot of cool things with it, but the fence/guide it came with it is very mediocre and doesn’t bevel.
Exactly! I also thought they were overpriced. Untill I had a chance to use them, that completely changed my mind, along with experience wirh their customer service. But I never bought any tool without trying them first. I' glad he mentioned power cords. That simple thing is Festool's unsung heros. When you use multiple tools you can quickly make a snake's nest from cables, not to speak how much easier is to store tools without a cord.
There are a lot of different brands that are to expensive for the diy hobbyist, random usage Matt brings up a great point! The dust collection is really nice! And if you don’t protect your lungs 🫁 then your body will have issues later in life! The price is tough to swallow even with BBQ sauce on it!
As you're probably aware .. Makita are launching a tool storage system that will probably be more like the Milwaukee stuff. To date Makita have stuck with a knock-off of the first gen Systainers. In defence of the Systainers, they aren't as bulky as "pack out" style cases and that tends to benefit "in the workshop" storage use - Systainers certainly aren't the cases you want to be tossing in the back of a ute day in / day out. The Domino 500 & 700 to me is in the same class as the Lamello Zeta and the Mafell Duo Doweller, all excellent joinery tools for rapid and accurate fabrication and all criticised by people mostly through ignorance. The Festool drills and drivers are perfect for their intended use. The C series offer superior trigger control unlike any other drill/driver. The Centrotec system is perfect for installers needing to switch between bits quickly too. If you want an impact driver to pound long screws in for a construction project don't buy Festool. I have 16 Festool and Protool drills but I only use 2 of them these days, mostly relying on Makitas. Something people often miss about the ROTEX is the fact that it's an amazing polishing machine. A combo of the RO 150 and RO 90 can turn you into an instant car detailing biz!
Thank you for the feedback. I like making this type content and the majority of viewers seem to like it as well. I know it's not for everyone, and that is okay too. I don't plan on focusing on build videos anytime in the near future.
I completely agree about not buying the systaners individually. I like that they tools come with them. It makes storage easy/nice, but no way I would pay for one, for other tool storage. I have some of the Milwaukee boxes and without a question, those are better (think Tupperware vs those flimsy plastic cartons that strawberries come in)...
@@731Woodworks I'll argue with you a little there - they're expensive, and they appear not to be as strong as the Milwaukee, Ridgid, etc. But they do one thing very well: they are small enough that I can reasonably isolate groups of related tools in a small space so they're easy to find (I make ID cards and inserts for the systainers I buy empty) and not take up a lot of space in my small multi-use shop.
@@dmccorvey Early on when I discovered Festool sanders I also discovered the benefits of their various abrasives ... at the same time I realised you could get Systainer inserts for storing all of the different abrasive shapes. Storage for Dominos, the Centrotec installer kits, etc and things just balloon out. Many premium brands provide their tools in branded systainers and make integration easy as well as some nice integrated Systainer tools such as compressors. Systainers suit the cabinet maker / installer as they're intended
I bought a brand new ETS 125 for only $200 which is only about $100 more than my Dewalt cost. The difference in quality is night and day and not even comparable.
I have all 3 of those sanders…love them. I have the dust extractor also…the 36…. Best tool in my shop. I also have the 750 dominoe machine as I build a lot of wooden countertops. Lots of money, but well worth it.
Do you by any chance speak on right-handed and left-handed circular saws? I did not know there was a difference but was always having trouble using my saw because I couldn't see properly, I am right-handed. Most of the saws I see are left-handed. Is a right-handed saw a special order?
Profermonce is equal between both companies but mirks has reliability problems but there is a new range from mirka festool will have new range soon next year is there birthday expect some new innovation
@@kennethcarlsen8219 variable power suction is an important consideration when sanding .. too often people turn their vacs up to full power when sanding when less power and some finesse is more important. When you are performing fine sanding you want your sander to "glide over" not "stick to" to the surfaces you are sanding.
You'd be wrong in that. As a basic material removal device that Bosch will do an ok job but the ROTEX has a range of accessories in a system that differentiates it. This is where people just don't understand Festool .. you're buying into an integrated system of tools, accessories, consumables, guidelines, advice and support that's designed to perform and deliver. Other brands are learning the benefits of this and are starting to catch up in a few areas .. some are even copying and/or making themselves compatible with Festool systems. Festool certainly aren't the best of everything, but they do sanding really well.
I've ripped many hundreds of feet of 8/4 walnut, white oak and maple with my Makita track saw and have never had kickback. Not sure why kickback prevention on a track saw is necessary. The worst that can happen is burning with the saw blade stalling. I'd just insert a shim and keep going. Even if somehow the saw gets kicked out back at you, the blade automatically retracts. That would be almost impossible with you hands firmly pushing the track saw.
Inspire Woodcraft (UA-cam) has a really nice fix for dust collection for any miter saw. You have to make it, but done correctly, it virtually fixes all your dust collection issues on any saw. Regarding the Systainer construction. Remember, Festool tools were and still mostly are, designed for finish carpentry. Systainers are relatively light compared to Packout storage. Milwaukee tools are primarily designed for construction sites, where conditions can be expected to be much harsher. Both do what their designed to do just fine. That said, Festool did do a course correction on the plastic they use for their CT dust collectors (I had to buy the updated version as my old one broke as predicted on the interwebs), so maybe they'll (Tanos) update Systainers too at some point. Nice review and rationale all around by the way.
Matt, try out the Bosch GET75-6N almost as good, virtually nothing in it and it's half the price and the Bosch GEX33-6N Is significantly better overall than any of the Festool line. Oh, and I am a Festool fan not Bosch. If you've not tried them before give them a go.
No, no, no .. so wrong. The Bosch sanders don't compare at all. They're not rubbish, but they are not in the same class. If you said Mirka, Rupes, FLEX, etc maybe I wouldn't jump at you but not Bosch.
I have an automotive business and I have also dabbled in detailing for over 25 years, I have Mirka, Rupes bigfoot and Milwaukee sanders and polishers. My Mirka's are pneumatic so I won't include my opinions on these. I was very specific about the Bosch sanders that I like and I don't own the GET75. I have never owned any Festooll power tools (but used many over the years) so my recommendation may be flawed somewhat. But I have all the others and can say hand on heart the GEX33 is better than what I have used mainly because of the close to zero vibration and wander. In my opinion Festool is just too expensive and quite simply the Bosch GET75 is half the price of the Rotex but is way more than half as good. BUT, here's the thing, my Bigfoot is supposed to be the best polisher on the market or at least was when I got it 5 years ago but I only really use it for refinement. It is very slow to cut through paint and just feels clumsy. the rotary Seeley would be my first choice which is no where near as good as the Rupes. Depends on what you are using it for and I stand by my choice of the Bosch GEX33 being a better all round sander than any of the Festool ones. (I also have 5 other Bosch sanders which are far from great) And I do not like DeWalt sanders at all. I am pretty confident that if you tried the 33 you would be impressed.@@kevinpunter7960
@@alexcollins9513 don't get me started on Dewalt sanders .. I think I threw the last one I had at a kangaroo. I've put my toe in the water with Bosch twice over the last few decades and have suffered reliability issues that has turned me off the brand completely. I'm talking early deaths too, not a well used tools failing. I was crazy for Rupes before I discovered Festool (the dust collection is the thing that got me hooked but also the quality of the abrasives). Mirka has been a temptation but they've never offered anything that quantifiably justified replacing a Festool for me. If one of my ETS sanders died a Mirka could take its place. I've had the opportunity to try many sanders from lots of brands over the decades and very, very little comes anywhere near Festool. 80% as good at half the price may be enough for some people but that's not how I go about choosing a tool .. I buy the best I can possibly afford. System integration is a big thing for me too. I can swap between multiple sanders on a workpiece and use the same hose and power connector on all of them if they're Festool sanders or saws or routers or planers, etc. I'm not a devout Festooler .. I have sanders (and yeh lots of other tools too) that aren't Festool. Makita make a 9mm cordless belt sander that is insanely good and because of that one tool I'm anxious to see how good their new XGT cordless sanders are .. the rest of their LXT sanders are rubbish! (relatively speaking) I have a Bigfoot I think I used twice and stored it away. Similar time I picked up a FLEX and never looked back though I'd happily polish with the ROTEX RO150 & RO 90 if I didn't have to decontaminate them (sawdust etc). Anyway, back to our OK Corral confrontation and your insane claims that a GEX33 is better than ANY Festool. You are stark raving bonkers! To my knowledge it isn't even a current model here in Oz - it's so good it has been dumped. To be clear Bosch is a company that makes a couple of sanders whereas Festool practically invented powered sanding and have continued to innovate and lead. That's not my opinion, it's just a fact.
I have the Makita Miter saw and LOVE IT, but it has one horrible issue, the dust collector hits the wall behind it and I can't find a 90 degree angle to put on it. If anyone has a solution, I'm all ears. I wish I could have afforded the festool.
To be honest, being a "hater" or a "fanboy" of any brand or product is just silly. Everybody has a different situation, different budget, different priorities, etc. Pick a tool that fits your needs and budget and use it to the best of it's capabilities. I mean, we're not all driving Ferrari's and Lamborghinis either, right. But as long as your Ford does the job, who cares!
I alway have a giggle at people that criticise a tool over its price while wearing jewellery/chains etc or an expensive watch. Similarly people that knock that fat guy on a high spec bicycle. It's sad that rather than appreciate an item for it's unique value we live in a world where people often criticise it and ridicule the people that choose it.
Pricey? If the ETS 125 costs 250$ in the US, what would you call the same sander that costs 350$ in Germany? :D Great videos and channel Matt, keep it up!
Mirka is certainly a good sander, too, but you give up the Festool "System". All of the Festool tools play together. Mirka would be kinda a odd duck. Again, good sander and you can't go wrong. As you point out, you're going to pay for really good tools. I wish I had the anti-kick feature on my older track saw. I have a track that's pretty cut up because of kickback. It's not as dangerous as a table saw, but it's not good to lose control of any saw. I don't like the cordless because of the dust hose. Clips to hold the cord to the dust hose are all over. Since the saws have the same power cord (there are really two different gauges). I have mine on a track, hanging from the ceiling. There are also anti-tip clips available in Etsy.
Matt, I resisted Festool for years, I finally broke down and bought the ES 150/5 sander and the CT MIDI dust extractor, WOW, what a difference, almost no vibration and no more dust. 6 months later my Festool sustainers are over 7 feet tall. I went from hater to fanboy!!! It’s true that most haters have never tried the product
My first Festools were an ETS150/5 and a CT Mini (no Midi back in those days). Systainers are a bit of a drug for a person like me with OCD and ECD .. I hit triple digits a decade ago :(
Not practical to say the tool cost on a video that will likely be available for years. Prices always change based on the market and other variables… You could say current price value as of x, but 🤷♂️.
Imagine getting pulled over by the state police and matt from 731 woodworks walks up to your window and starts telling you about the Festool track saw 😂
while everyones complaining on how festool is expensive and how makita milwakee is better just understand that we "festool fans" were ripping 30 years ago
I started down the Festool rabbit hole with the 5" sander (I had a lot of sandpaper and didn't mind the 5-6" difference) and the CT26. I quickly added the Rotex, Domino and TS55. I ended up finding a great deal on the OF1400 router and was blown away. Like the others, it costs more than the other brands, but (like the others) takes it to a whole new level. Try one and see what you think. - Chris
I know most Woodworks around me can't justify the cost. I always woodworkers of the past didn't have all these fancy tools and most would not use them any way
Is Festool expensive? Yes. But not completely out of reach for most people. Let's say Festool is the top of the line - the 10/10. You can get 8/10 and spend half as much, and that's good enough for most people. The value just isn't there for that final "20% better" that Festool offers. Average Joe doesn't use those tools often enough to justify the extra expense.
Festool really isn't top of the line though. They have some innovative tools for sure, but I would say the mafell track saw is nicer than theirs, their MFT's are firmly outclassed by dashboard, and probably several others. Benchdogs UK makes much better guide rail hinges. TSO has better offerings for rail squares and track connectors. I like their sanders, but honestly, I far prefer the variable speed paddle switch on my mirka. the kapex is known for having reasonably low blade runout, but a lot of decent miter saws can offer that, even if you may have to return a couple to get there. But the stand? I think it's a piece of junk. Fragile, takes time to set up, integrated tape measure wears away quickly, is not designed for quick replacement, no real calibration on it's measuring. If you have the budget for a festool, I would start looking at the cut hub. Maybe consider fastcap wings (not perfect, but MUCH cheaper). I like the systainers a lot, but festool has quite a short list of tools that are truly best in show. maybe their 12V installer drill. Their domino. For a while they had some innovative vacuum clamps, but I think those are discontinued and dewalt just bought the grabo, I think, so we can expect some REAL movement from them soon.
I disagree. My philosophy on Festools is I will only spend the price they get when they deliver something I cannot get with another less expensive tool. My go to sander is the Bosch DEVS 1250. The newer equivalent is the GET75-6N. It is equivalent to a Rotex. Bosch calls its agressive mode the "turbo" mode and with it you get belt sander type material removal. Orbit is also 5mm. Dust collection is good. I have used this tool one handed with 40 grit paper in turbo mode. I have XL hands and they get tired doing this but I took the paint off the clapboards of my dining room with this tool that way. Switch to finer paper and random orbit mode for final finishing on furniture. This is a $300 sander. I don't need to pay Festool prices for a sander. My shop vac is a Rigid with their quasi HEPA filter pulling through a dust deputy and equipped with an after market auto on switch. I use a Bosch 5 meter hose with it most of the time. Hooks up fine including with my Domino 700. I put computer style connectors on all my tools I want to use the shop vac with including the domino. So I also have the "plug in the juice and the suction at the tool" ala Festool but again at a much lower price. My after market switch can handle the 12A current draw of my DeWalt track saw. Besides the capability to work on larger tools the other advantage is that I rarely have to clean the shop vac filter and I have no consumables like bags to buy. I already said my track saw is DeWalt. It works fine including on furniture but if I was buying one today I would get the Makita or the Milwaukee cordless. My main issue is not that I don't believe Festools are nicer. It's that the alternatives are so much cheaper and work great. Not as great as a Festool but plenty good enough for me. That is not true of mortisers. I had a hollow chisel mortiser and I have made mortises with a plunge router. Other methods work. But they do not work as well as a Domino. I bought the big one with the Senica adapter and bits from Amana and CMT. I have never purchased a tenon from Festool and probably never will. I make sticks of material from scrap to have on hand and for larger projects I make overlapping plunges and wider mortises with tenons to match. Very easy and quick. I think domino joints get bad press because people always use those little narrow tenons they offer. There is zero reason not to use a normal size mortise and tenon joint and if you do it's just as strong as a conventional mortise and tenon.
Instead of a domino why not the DeWalt Biscuit Joiner? It's about $200 and works well for aligning boards. Does it add any strength to the joint? That's highly debated. I think it adds some just with the increased surface/glue area in the joint. There's also a debate about the need for dominos or biscuits at all. Many woodworkers will tell you that a board will break along the grain before a properly glued joint will. And yes, I've been woodworking for 30+ years, long before Festool was a thing (at least here in the states).
There's always one isn't there just ??? Stop talking about the tools and focus on the type of joint. If you want a mortise and tenon joint the Domino is a rapid way to achieve it. A good idea for you is to go and study some basic joinery techniques and there various merits before you pose fundamentally stupid questions due to your ignorance of joinery,
I mocked Festool for 20+ years but finally bought a 150/3 ETS-EC and CT36 and that purchase was an eye-opener. There are a lot of things to be said about what Festool tools do best (better than competitive tools) and some things to say about what they don't, but there are some tools that simply do things that nothing else does. The otherwise very good-excellent OSC 18 OMT has a unique and uniquely valuable perpendicular plunge cut fixture. The Domino is...the Domino. Festool 18V batteries were AFAIK the first to offer true battery air cooling on chargers with fans...Milwaukee has only just gotten there. You mentioned the kickback brake on tne TS-55, which is easy to poo-poo, but if you've ever had a kickback you know that you are likely to destroy a track section and may even seriously injure yourself. There are other examples but this is already in "more" territory...
Hi Matt, great video as always! Many of the things you mention I agree with, but a few I gota wonder about. When it comes to sanders, think you nailed it. When it comes to a ROTEX i went with the 6" Bosch equivalent at 1/3 the price instead. My thinking is that when I need something that can remove a tone of material, I usually need it for a short time (like to quickly remove a finish) so can deal with handling the sander for short periods to hasten the job, using other sanders for the finer work. A ROTEX just seemed like too much $ for more occasional use not really getting the benefit of Festool sanders. The Domino is a different issue. I completely agree for production work the Domino is a great option, I use the Dowel Max system myself for hobby work. However, after looking at a number of the cheap Doweling Jointers for the purpose of speeding up the process I came across one from a company called Virutex that looks like a production unit for under $500, higher quality then the cheap ones but not in the stratosphere like the Mafell at $1300 - $1500. Is it a Domino killer....uh, no. Domino is still more versatile. However, the Virutex is more in-line (at least on paper) with something that is affordable for something those in the hobby/small production arena. Worth checking out and would love to see a review on it :) When it comes to things I would avoid when it comes to Festool, having bought and sold a Festool 1400 router I would put routers in that category. When it comes to the 1400, just just found the handle got more in the way than not, and the dust collection was really no better than alter alternatives I had at the time. I'm not saying they are bad machines, as they are clearly well engineered. I'm just saying that the ergonomics I found questionable (at least when it came to the 1400), the performance was no better, and the dust collection was simply on par, all for double (or more)the price. I appreciate you these informative videos out! Be well!
Hey Matt! Awesome video and points to think about. Everyone has there thoughts on brands of tools. Can even turn into a big debate like sports. Like everyone I’m sure most has invested in a battery platform of some brand. I started out with Skill and others. I found myself wanting a better line of tools and Milwaukee became mine. I have ventured to some other brands when wanting corded tools. My first was the 3m 5 inch sander. To me it was like jumping to Festool. I’m currently looking for a better miter saw and have been looking at the Festool 12 inch. Price difference is depressing and not looking to finance a mortgage for that. Might as well buy a Sawstop at that price. lol. It’s easy to see that Festool is a more “professional “ brand and not exactly a hobbyist or DIY person. Just can’t justify those prices for that as for that kind of money can buy something better but not just one tool. Great video! BTW I’m going to come at ya with those cheesy pick up lines!😂😂😂. I don’t see your wife turning her head for any of them. However I’m sure you got better game than that. lol Awesome job!
Great video Matt. The first part of the video about sanders makes me wonder how much of the value is driven by the Festool technology embodied by the sander Vs the quality of the dust collection. I couldn’t help but be reminded that Harbor Freight just came out with their own dust extractor under their Hercules brand in the last couple weeks and would love to see you put it’s through its paces. You’ve already got the top of the line sanders so they would provide a pretty good control condition for a performance experiment pitting the Festool extractor Vs the cheaper knock off alternative.
A buddy and I were at a woodcraft store, he pointed over at the Festool wall and asked, “what about those tools?” I said, “Those are the tools rich yuppies buy when they get into woodworking.”
Festool and Hilti are aimed at specific markets. For Festool, it's high-end woodworking and remodeling. Also, in Europe, timber framing and some auto paint. That's it: no lawnmowers, no framing nailers, no tire changing, plumbing etc. And everyone else is playing catchup in their field. If you don't get Festool, you can always find a less-expensive Milwaukee knockoff a decade later. For Hilti, it's big construction - and everyone else is playing catchup there. I absolutely love my "underpowered" Festool CXS, despite the absurd prices of Centrotec accessories. But I shop for ergonomics, cleanliness, and safety, and, if I need it, I have a Hilti 22V drill and corded rotary hammer.
I think they offer #2 tools in every scenario. The problem for me is the value, they are about 25%- 50% over priced. To me it’s a disconnect. I prefer mafell and makita personally…. The former is the absolute best and the latter is the value brand
No hate here. Festool systainers seem to be designed for use in your wood-shop while all the other brands are designed to be taken to the job site for use. Some of the tools are nice but for what i do, the value isn't there. My DeWalt stuff gets the work done.
Did you know that the Festool headquarter is located in the industry area of a small German town ? It's more like a village actually... My hometown is just 8km away, so I once called them to announce I'll come by with my circular saw to have a short check. No way! They are quite some bigheads 😊 _No, you cannot come here, you must send it to us and before we need all your data, and as well when and where you bought it, then if we checked it we'll send it back to you!_ But my saw was just a worn second hand and nothing seemed to be broken really. So I asked if I could just fetch a small spare part, as I will be around these days and they said, no, they'll send it to a shop, where I could go and get it after it's delivered. Germans 😅😅!
The CT26, 36, and 46 also have an optional add-on of a pre-seperator that stacks on top for the bigger chips so the extractor unit only takes the really fine dust into the bag.
I have to say you nailed it with the 6” 150 sander. Never in a million years did I think I would pay 600$ for a sander. It was a lot of money for me so don’t think otherwise. But the performance is second to none. I also picked up a used Festool dust distractor for 135$ (stole it) and added an aftermarket cyclone for 100$ to the top and that works amazingly well. I don’t need anything else, it handles my planer and everything else. But one miss here. That miter saw is almost 3 times the cost of good miter saws with almost nothing to justify the price. Sure it’s a great saw but 3 times the price? That’s is probably the one tool they have that is not even close to being worth it in my opinion.
Thank you for the feedback. I like making this type content and the majority of viewers seem to like it as well. I know it's not for everyone, and that is okay too. I don't plan on focusing on build videos anytime in the near future.
Like your videos but your drill comments are totally wrong. Had festool cordless drill for 20 years. Tried Dewalt, Panasonic and Milwaukee and they are nothing on the festool drills. Sorry but no....
Yep Matt, before you dish on the drills you really need to use them. I have several of them. I have many, many many Festool products. Milwaukee products DeWalt products. They all have their purpose. I am changing over to sustainers due to the total oversized nature of the packouts. Also just fills the van with a bunch of plastic. @@731Woodworks
Festool is quality German engineering. Is a Mercedes more expensive than a Chinese car? Sure .. but if you're happy driving a tin coffin, save your money and buy Chinese. You really do get what you pay for with Festool.
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Another big advantage of the 150mm sanders over the 125 is the multi jet 2 pad which removes so much more dust. Also, the rotex is an amazing polisher as well.
Have had Festool track saw since 2011. Amazing tool and quality. Remains my favorite as well. Interesting videos, keep going! Best regards from Estonia!
Great video. I want to point out that the domino adapter is for the larger, DF700, to be able to use the smaller, DF500 cutters.
I still think the DF500 is best for most people.
I would love to own a few Festool tools but I can't afford any of them with my fixed income. I apply many work-arounds using other tool manufactures for my DIY/hobbyist projects. Still, I think the two best Festool tools, but still overpriced, are the Domino DF500 or DF700 and the Cordless 36v Track Saw Combo Kit Matt, thank you for this informative video.
The 3mm vs 5mm is about scratch pattern. 5mm is aggressive for grits above 120. There is room for both and I would not relegate a 3mm sander to veneers and finishes only. 3mm will make it easier to manage 'pigtails' as you move higher in the grits.
If you're serious about sanding you'll end up with both! I fell into the Festool sander rabbit hole a long time ago and they just keep multiplying ;(
Couldn't agree more...the 3mm orbit gives a super fine finish on larger areas and, in my experience, is not significantly slower than my 150mm Rotex in standard random orbit mode. If a surface is very uneven, I use the Rotex to level it and the ETS150 to provide the final finish.
@@davidhull2060 the belt sander with the floating frame is really handy. I was fortunate enough to get the big puppy (BS105) when it was available but the 75 is good too.
Overall Festool makes solid tools. Thanks for the info
Been using the ETS EC150/5 for the past month or so and it's been an absolute champ. Expensive but totally worth the cost - add the extractor and a respirator seems unnecessary!
Okay I own a bunch of Festool but I will say the Kapex miter saw is awesome. Also it fits the JET Flip Top Benchtop Stand(hard to find one that fits) I was able to put a dewalt 735x planer on one side and the Kapex on the other side. Worth it for space saving
The vaccuminghose is actually a long cone in shape and to add in info is that it doesn’t twist as a normal hose as well, so it rarely wraps around a table leg. The cone shape is said to be the tech behind the great sunction and it is very quiet. The most quiet one I have had… and one can use it to clean dust off and clean your clothes after working by reversing the outlet
I just got yesterday 2 of the brand new 8ah batteries and their new two drawer systainer. I plan to run the batteries on the sys 50 tablesaw. The tablesaw is cheap for what it does. The thing is amazing, can’t wait to run the new batteries.
But they don’t fit…😮
No, they fit fine, even with the cover on. It’s nice to just grab and set it up real quick
My 1st festool was the PRO 5 LTD 125 sander $99 , then the 150/5 and the mini dust extractor, RO90 , TS55 track saw , MFT/3 table ( my favorite) then the 420 jigsaw …. Next but down the really long road the domino 500 and there miter saw ,(all corded) I have plenty of Ridgid 18v/12v and 2 Bosch 12v cordless. My 150/5 is my most used sander.
I use the ETS at work. They are indeed awesome.
I have a Festool drill and it's the spinning precision that I noticed, I can start off really slow and gentle which comes handy when cabinet making
😂😂😂😂😂😂 my Ryobi can do that. My makita Sub compact does it better than Festool with more power in a smaller platform
oh ok well my own comparison was with the dewalt drills, great power and great for installations but a bit abrupt. Or the little Bosch gsr, my favourite machine but not subtle enough sometimes
@@paulhopkins1905 no, your Ryobi DOES NOT offer the same precise control as a Festool. You have never used a Festool driver in a precise control situation and you are talking out of your backside. If you want maximum power for your money you shouldn't buy Festool, stick to your local big box discount brands.
@@kevinpunter7960 I've used the Fescult drill and driver you absolute cork sniffer. They aren't special at all and are underpowered and way overpriced.
@@paulhopkins1905 yeh, yeh defend your childish bias as much as you want. I find creatures like you extremely amusing. Power and price are your problem? Enjoy your Ryobi stuff - perfect for you.
I don’t hate festool, there’s just a reality that I have a small hobby shop and can’t justify spending that much money on tools.
What I hate is how people start UA-cam channels showing woodworking, it becomes a tool review channel, and they end up promoting festool.
Please, at least have some balance and do both.
After watching one of your previous Festool reviews I got the track saw and small sander. Then the small dust extractor. The tracksaw, WOW! I was using Milescraft system but my Ryobi cordless saws did not work well with it. I'm still using the black hose the came with tracksaw, should I upgrade?
You should do a review of the Fein dust extractor. I have one and have been impressed by the performance and reasonable cost compared to the Festool extractors.
You do need to try the drills. The older CXS is loved by pretty much anyone who tries it. Festool updated it to the CXS 12 and introduced the CXS 18; both are excellent. Trigger control is fantastic. While it takes some getting used to, I now love the electronic clutch.
On the Systainers, have a look at the Sortainer three drawer. I fit the contents of one Packout three drawer and Packout two drawer in ONE of the Sortainer three drawer units. Yep, they're expensive (relative), but I'll be damned if it doesn't hold a ton of stuff. Festool 200119 SYS 4 TL-SORT 3 Drawer Sortainer is the one.
The "12" on the new CXS-12 is just marketing. It's actually 10.8V like the older CXS - AND EVERY OTHER "12V" LITHIUM TOOL. I guess they were annoyed that someone might say, "Ours is 12V, but Festool is only 10.8." Also, every 20V tool is really 18V when it's running, every 24V is 21.6V, every 40V is 36V, etc.
@@pdfads I had replied yesterday but it must have glitched.
I wasn't referring to battery voltages. The old CXS 12, which everyone referred to as simply "CXS", has a brushed motor and mechanical clutch. The new CXS 12, which people do refer to as the CXS 12, has a brushless motor and electronic clutch. I hate the word "literally" since it's overused, but in this case "12" is literally in the product name.
I agree with you on most of this except for two things.
Systainers may look like they are thin and fragile, but they are actually very strong, especially when the lid is closed. In twenty years I have only broken one...and that fell nearly twenty feet from a scaffold. They are strong enough to pass through the German postal system without further protection in transit. That is how they are sent for repair...you just place a label on the box and pay the postage.
The other area of disagreement is Festool cordless tools. The range is not vast like Milwaukee or Dewalt, because they are not aimed at every trade. Their core range is excellent....the combi drills and drill/drivers are precision tools, providing accuracy and finesse, rather than brute force. Likewise the cordless circular saws, jigsaws and multitool are ideal for super accurate cutting tasks, and their sanders are every bit as good as their corded counterparts. I use my Dewalt kit for heavy duty outside jobs...the Festool kit is used in the workshop or in installation tasks, where it excels. Nothing looks more impressive to a client than you rolling up with a neat stack of systainers on your extractor with everything working together and keeping their home dust and mess free. That is worth far more than the cost of the tools in dollars.
I strongly disagree. I love my systainers, I use them daily. that said, I have broken a box dropping a half stack about 12 inches to the pavement off a tailgate (latch had flipped from latched, to closed, in transit and I came away holding the top box of my stack while the bottom roughly 2 feet or so dropped). most of the stack survived, but one of the boxes broke in 3 places. the front corner of the lower box got cracked vertically, One of the hinge ears on the lid broke completely off, and both corners of the lower box had significant cracking at the area around the hinge attachment points. It wasn't worth trying to replace the broekn parts. I just salvaged what I could and tossed it.
The latches wear out regularly (stop holding themselves in the correct orientation), and In the last 3 years, I have had at least half a dozen latch failures completely (the latch side blows out completely). The top handle connection to the top of the box is a major wear point. Parts are also extremely expensive. a new latch for a box is often like 20% the price of the box, plus shipping as they aren't commonly stocked in a lot of places that sell the boxes.
If you put any significant weight in them on a daily basis, I strongly recommend you use a hand truck to reduce strain on the latches and lids. I also don't heavily load my stacks. I have 2 stacks I carry all over (I use them basically every day, unload them, load them, and often move them between floors of a jobsite). Each weighs probably 50-60 pounds, total, and is like 30 inches or so Tall. I am not wasting space, but I am not filling these with bulk nails or anything.
Don't get me wrong, I am super happy with them, but I use JB-weld on my boxes on a semi regular basis. they could be significantly more heavily built, specifically, the latch could be more wear resistant, the outer band could be more substantial on the latch, and the hinge points could be reinforced heavily.
Festool Owners remind me of Tesla and Prius owners…..”can you smell my Festool Farts”. Smug Alert!😂😂😂
🙄
@@731Woodworks South Park reference. By the way I own a couple of their tools but I don’t brag about it😂
@FloridaMan.84 I struggle with price of festool. I still think the sander is worth it. Only festool I own and it is night and day to the other sanders I had been using.
I love Festool sanders especially their ets 6 inch sanders! They are well worth the money since they fatigue your hands after a lot of sanding. One thing nobody talks about is the Festool hand planer. It’s a great tool, and you can do a lot of cool things with it, but the fence/guide it came with it is very mediocre and doesn’t bevel.
People actually hate festool because they can't afford them .
agreed
Exactly! I also thought they were overpriced. Untill I had a chance to use them, that completely changed my mind, along with experience wirh their customer service. But I never bought any tool without trying them first.
I' glad he mentioned power cords. That simple thing is Festool's unsung heros. When you use multiple tools you can quickly make a snake's nest from cables, not to speak how much easier is to store tools without a cord.
@@fifi23o5 festool is like fine dining u get what u pay for it may fill your stomach or may not but it'll certainly taste better
No need to call me out
There are a lot of different brands that are to expensive for the diy hobbyist, random usage
Matt brings up a great point! The dust collection is really nice! And if you don’t protect your lungs 🫁 then your body will have issues later in life!
The price is tough to swallow even with BBQ sauce on it!
"I'm a little festool curious" reminds me of Butters from South Park. Ha
As you're probably aware .. Makita are launching a tool storage system that will probably be more like the Milwaukee stuff. To date Makita have stuck with a knock-off of the first gen Systainers. In defence of the Systainers, they aren't as bulky as "pack out" style cases and that tends to benefit "in the workshop" storage use - Systainers certainly aren't the cases you want to be tossing in the back of a ute day in / day out.
The Domino 500 & 700 to me is in the same class as the Lamello Zeta and the Mafell Duo Doweller, all excellent joinery tools for rapid and accurate fabrication and all criticised by people mostly through ignorance.
The Festool drills and drivers are perfect for their intended use. The C series offer superior trigger control unlike any other drill/driver. The Centrotec system is perfect for installers needing to switch between bits quickly too. If you want an impact driver to pound long screws in for a construction project don't buy Festool. I have 16 Festool and Protool drills but I only use 2 of them these days, mostly relying on Makitas.
Something people often miss about the ROTEX is the fact that it's an amazing polishing machine. A combo of the RO 150 and RO 90 can turn you into an instant car detailing biz!
I would love to have just one Festool item.
I'm waiting for a review of the Mafell push pull and track saw.
It's in my cart, but hard to drop that much money lol
I’d love to see you actually do some woodworking. All these reviews are getting boring now and been done to death by makers.
Thank you for the feedback. I like making this type content and the majority of viewers seem to like it as well. I know it's not for everyone, and that is okay too. I don't plan on focusing on build videos anytime in the near future.
Build videos don't get enough views
welcome to earth, if you hate it now just wait a few minutes it gets worse.
I completely agree about not buying the systaners individually. I like that they tools come with them. It makes storage easy/nice, but no way I would pay for one, for other tool storage. I have some of the Milwaukee boxes and without a question, those are better (think Tupperware vs those flimsy plastic cartons that strawberries come in)...
Exactly!
@@731Woodworks I'll argue with you a little there - they're expensive, and they appear not to be as strong as the Milwaukee, Ridgid, etc. But they do one thing very well: they are small enough that I can reasonably isolate groups of related tools in a small space so they're easy to find (I make ID cards and inserts for the systainers I buy empty) and not take up a lot of space in my small multi-use shop.
@@dmccorvey Early on when I discovered Festool sanders I also discovered the benefits of their various abrasives ... at the same time I realised you could get Systainer inserts for storing all of the different abrasive shapes. Storage for Dominos, the Centrotec installer kits, etc and things just balloon out.
Many premium brands provide their tools in branded systainers and make integration easy as well as some nice integrated Systainer tools such as compressors.
Systainers suit the cabinet maker / installer as they're intended
I have no option on these, as I'm only a hobbyist and couldn't justify the price. They look great.
I bought a brand new ETS 125 for only $200 which is only about $100 more than my Dewalt cost. The difference in quality is night and day and not even comparable.
I have all 3 of those sanders…love them. I have the dust extractor also…the 36…. Best tool in my shop. I also have the 750 dominoe machine as I build a lot of wooden countertops. Lots of money, but well worth it.
@731Woodworks what is your opinion when comparing your favorite festool sander with the 3m Xtract?
3M Xtract has had some issues over the last year documented in this video: ua-cam.com/video/et71KJD3Mt4/v-deo.htmlsi=cDpblsY1K9CvZuK7
Where do you buy ur hardwoods?
Do you by any chance speak on right-handed and left-handed circular saws? I did not know there was a difference but was always having trouble using my saw because I couldn't see properly, I am right-handed. Most of the saws I see are left-handed. Is a right-handed saw a special order?
I would love to see a comparison between the festool and mirka sanders
Profermonce is equal between both companies but mirks has reliability problems but there is a new range from mirka festool will have new range soon next year is there birthday expect some new innovation
So you need the festool shop vac system to be able to use it? Or can I use my existing setup and just add the sander?
You can use it without the Festool shop vac
@@731Woodworks thanks! Then it would be worth the money as an add on.
@@kennethcarlsen8219 variable power suction is an important consideration when sanding .. too often people turn their vacs up to full power when sanding when less power and some finesse is more important. When you are performing fine sanding you want your sander to "glide over" not "stick to" to the surfaces you are sanding.
I've heard that the Bosch GET75-6n is a good alternative to the Rotex
You'd be wrong in that. As a basic material removal device that Bosch will do an ok job but the ROTEX has a range of accessories in a system that differentiates it. This is where people just don't understand Festool .. you're buying into an integrated system of tools, accessories, consumables, guidelines, advice and support that's designed to perform and deliver. Other brands are learning the benefits of this and are starting to catch up in a few areas .. some are even copying and/or making themselves compatible with Festool systems.
Festool certainly aren't the best of everything, but they do sanding really well.
I've ripped many hundreds of feet of 8/4 walnut, white oak and maple with my Makita track saw and have never had kickback. Not sure why kickback prevention on a track saw is necessary. The worst that can happen is burning with the saw blade stalling. I'd just insert a shim and keep going. Even if somehow the saw gets kicked out back at you, the blade automatically retracts. That would be almost impossible with you hands firmly pushing the track saw.
Inspire Woodcraft (UA-cam) has a really nice fix for dust collection for any miter saw. You have to make it, but done correctly, it virtually fixes all your dust collection issues on any saw.
Regarding the Systainer construction. Remember, Festool tools were and still mostly are, designed for finish carpentry. Systainers are relatively light compared to Packout storage. Milwaukee tools are primarily designed for construction sites, where conditions can be expected to be much harsher. Both do what their designed to do just fine. That said, Festool did do a course correction on the plastic they use for their CT dust collectors (I had to buy the updated version as my old one broke as predicted on the interwebs), so maybe they'll (Tanos) update Systainers too at some point. Nice review and rationale all around by the way.
I had a Festool vac from 20+ years ago. Sadly the electric motor may be dodgy and I am having difficulty gett it mended in S Korea.
Matt, try out the Bosch GET75-6N almost as good, virtually nothing in it and it's half the price and the Bosch GEX33-6N Is significantly better overall than any of the Festool line. Oh, and I am a Festool fan not Bosch. If you've not tried them before give them a go.
No, no, no .. so wrong. The Bosch sanders don't compare at all. They're not rubbish, but they are not in the same class. If you said Mirka, Rupes, FLEX, etc maybe I wouldn't jump at you but not Bosch.
I have an automotive business and I have also dabbled in detailing for over 25 years, I have Mirka, Rupes bigfoot and Milwaukee sanders and polishers. My Mirka's are pneumatic so I won't include my opinions on these. I was very specific about the Bosch sanders that I like and I don't own the GET75. I have never owned any Festooll power tools (but used many over the years) so my recommendation may be flawed somewhat. But I have all the others and can say hand on heart the GEX33 is better than what I have used mainly because of the close to zero vibration and wander. In my opinion Festool is just too expensive and quite simply the Bosch GET75 is half the price of the Rotex but is way more than half as good. BUT, here's the thing, my Bigfoot is supposed to be the best polisher on the market or at least was when I got it 5 years ago but I only really use it for refinement. It is very slow to cut through paint and just feels clumsy. the rotary Seeley would be my first choice which is no where near as good as the Rupes. Depends on what you are using it for and I stand by my choice of the Bosch GEX33 being a better all round sander than any of the Festool ones. (I also have 5 other Bosch sanders which are far from great) And I do not like DeWalt sanders at all. I am pretty confident that if you tried the 33 you would be impressed.@@kevinpunter7960
@@alexcollins9513 don't get me started on Dewalt sanders .. I think I threw the last one I had at a kangaroo. I've put my toe in the water with Bosch twice over the last few decades and have suffered reliability issues that has turned me off the brand completely. I'm talking early deaths too, not a well used tools failing. I was crazy for Rupes before I discovered Festool (the dust collection is the thing that got me hooked but also the quality of the abrasives). Mirka has been a temptation but they've never offered anything that quantifiably justified replacing a Festool for me. If one of my ETS sanders died a Mirka could take its place.
I've had the opportunity to try many sanders from lots of brands over the decades and very, very little comes anywhere near Festool. 80% as good at half the price may be enough for some people but that's not how I go about choosing a tool .. I buy the best I can possibly afford. System integration is a big thing for me too. I can swap between multiple sanders on a workpiece and use the same hose and power connector on all of them if they're Festool sanders or saws or routers or planers, etc.
I'm not a devout Festooler .. I have sanders (and yeh lots of other tools too) that aren't Festool. Makita make a 9mm cordless belt sander that is insanely good and because of that one tool I'm anxious to see how good their new XGT cordless sanders are .. the rest of their LXT sanders are rubbish! (relatively speaking)
I have a Bigfoot I think I used twice and stored it away. Similar time I picked up a FLEX and never looked back though I'd happily polish with the ROTEX RO150 & RO 90 if I didn't have to decontaminate them (sawdust etc).
Anyway, back to our OK Corral confrontation and your insane claims that a GEX33 is better than ANY Festool. You are stark raving bonkers! To my knowledge it isn't even a current model here in Oz - it's so good it has been dumped. To be clear Bosch is a company that makes a couple of sanders whereas Festool practically invented powered sanding and have continued to innovate and lead. That's not my opinion, it's just a fact.
I have the Makita Miter saw and LOVE IT, but it has one horrible issue, the dust collector hits the wall behind it and I can't find a 90 degree angle to put on it. If anyone has a solution, I'm all ears. I wish I could have afforded the festool.
To be honest, being a "hater" or a "fanboy" of any brand or product is just silly.
Everybody has a different situation, different budget, different priorities, etc.
Pick a tool that fits your needs and budget and use it to the best of it's capabilities.
I mean, we're not all driving Ferrari's and Lamborghinis either, right. But as long as your Ford does the job, who cares!
I alway have a giggle at people that criticise a tool over its price while wearing jewellery/chains etc or an expensive watch. Similarly people that knock that fat guy on a high spec bicycle. It's sad that rather than appreciate an item for it's unique value we live in a world where people often criticise it and ridicule the people that choose it.
Pricey? If the ETS 125 costs 250$ in the US, what would you call the same sander that costs 350$ in Germany? :D Great videos and channel Matt, keep it up!
Mirka is certainly a good sander, too, but you give up the Festool "System". All of the Festool tools play together. Mirka would be kinda a odd duck. Again, good sander and you can't go wrong. As you point out, you're going to pay for really good tools.
I wish I had the anti-kick feature on my older track saw. I have a track that's pretty cut up because of kickback. It's not as dangerous as a table saw, but it's not good to lose control of any saw. I don't like the cordless because of the dust hose. Clips to hold the cord to the dust hose are all over. Since the saws have the same power cord (there are really two different gauges). I have mine on a track, hanging from the ceiling. There are also anti-tip clips available in Etsy.
I'd rather have a Domino than a Disney vacation. Better value and will last probably your whole life.
Your kids don’t feel the same
@@CraigularjJoeWoodworks My kids are grown and can go to Disney on their own.
@@travisg1759 that’s not a dad thing to say , I’ll take my son anytime for any reason till the end of time
Festool’s boxes are hard to find if you wanted to build out a system. Milwaukee’s Packout are everywhere.
Matt, I resisted Festool for years, I finally broke down and bought the ES 150/5 sander and the CT MIDI dust extractor, WOW, what a difference, almost no vibration and no more dust. 6 months later my Festool sustainers are over 7 feet tall. I went from hater to fanboy!!! It’s true that most haters have never tried the product
My first Festools were an ETS150/5 and a CT Mini (no Midi back in those days). Systainers are a bit of a drug for a person like me with OCD and ECD .. I hit triple digits a decade ago :(
Can you do this withe meabo hpt
Why are you keeping the blue film on the Domino base? Something we should know, or is it simply to preserve that "new tool smell"?
Great video. Appreciate the breakdown. I do wish the price for each item was mentioned.
Prater, click on the description box.
Not practical to say the tool cost on a video that will likely be available for years. Prices always change based on the market and other variables…
You could say current price value as of x, but 🤷♂️.
Imagine getting pulled over by the state police and matt from 731 woodworks walks up to your window and starts telling you about the Festool track saw 😂
🤣
I don't hate Festool. I just think for what they charge, their tools should come with a happy ending...
while everyones complaining on how festool is expensive and how makita milwakee is better just understand that we "festool fans" were ripping 30 years ago
I started down the Festool rabbit hole with the 5" sander (I had a lot of sandpaper and didn't mind the 5-6" difference) and the CT26. I quickly added the Rotex, Domino and TS55. I ended up finding a great deal on the OF1400 router and was blown away. Like the others, it costs more than the other brands, but (like the others) takes it to a whole new level. Try one and see what you think. - Chris
I know most Woodworks around me can't justify the cost. I always woodworkers of the past didn't have all these fancy tools and most would not use them any way
Is Festool expensive? Yes. But not completely out of reach for most people. Let's say Festool is the top of the line - the 10/10. You can get 8/10 and spend half as much, and that's good enough for most people. The value just isn't there for that final "20% better" that Festool offers. Average Joe doesn't use those tools often enough to justify the extra expense.
Yep, it's not like these are $7-15k (or more) specialized commercial tools. They might be Mercedes, but they aren't Bugatti, if you know what I mean.
Agree. The only one I'd say is a real dud is the jigsaw, though YMMV.
Festool really isn't top of the line though. They have some innovative tools for sure, but I would say the mafell track saw is nicer than theirs, their MFT's are firmly outclassed by dashboard, and probably several others. Benchdogs UK makes much better guide rail hinges. TSO has better offerings for rail squares and track connectors. I like their sanders, but honestly, I far prefer the variable speed paddle switch on my mirka.
the kapex is known for having reasonably low blade runout, but a lot of decent miter saws can offer that, even if you may have to return a couple to get there. But the stand? I think it's a piece of junk. Fragile, takes time to set up, integrated tape measure wears away quickly, is not designed for quick replacement, no real calibration on it's measuring. If you have the budget for a festool, I would start looking at the cut hub. Maybe consider fastcap wings (not perfect, but MUCH cheaper).
I like the systainers a lot, but festool has quite a short list of tools that are truly best in show. maybe their 12V installer drill. Their domino. For a while they had some innovative vacuum clamps, but I think those are discontinued and dewalt just bought the grabo, I think, so we can expect some REAL movement from them soon.
I disagree. My philosophy on Festools is I will only spend the price they get when they deliver something I cannot get with another less expensive tool. My go to sander is the Bosch DEVS 1250. The newer equivalent is the GET75-6N. It is equivalent to a Rotex. Bosch calls its agressive mode the "turbo" mode and with it you get belt sander type material removal. Orbit is also 5mm. Dust collection is good. I have used this tool one handed with 40 grit paper in turbo mode. I have XL hands and they get tired doing this but I took the paint off the clapboards of my dining room with this tool that way. Switch to finer paper and random orbit mode for final finishing on furniture. This is a $300 sander. I don't need to pay Festool prices for a sander.
My shop vac is a Rigid with their quasi HEPA filter pulling through a dust deputy and equipped with an after market auto on switch. I use a Bosch 5 meter hose with it most of the time. Hooks up fine including with my Domino 700. I put computer style connectors on all my tools I want to use the shop vac with including the domino. So I also have the "plug in the juice and the suction at the tool" ala Festool but again at a much lower price. My after market switch can handle the 12A current draw of my DeWalt track saw. Besides the capability to work on larger tools the other advantage is that I rarely have to clean the shop vac filter and I have no consumables like bags to buy.
I already said my track saw is DeWalt. It works fine including on furniture but if I was buying one today I would get the Makita or the Milwaukee cordless.
My main issue is not that I don't believe Festools are nicer. It's that the alternatives are so much cheaper and work great. Not as great as a Festool but plenty good enough for me.
That is not true of mortisers. I had a hollow chisel mortiser and I have made mortises with a plunge router. Other methods work. But they do not work as well as a Domino. I bought the big one with the Senica adapter and bits from Amana and CMT. I have never purchased a tenon from Festool and probably never will. I make sticks of material from scrap to have on hand and for larger projects I make overlapping plunges and wider mortises with tenons to match. Very easy and quick. I think domino joints get bad press because people always use those little narrow tenons they offer. There is zero reason not to use a normal size mortise and tenon joint and if you do it's just as strong as a conventional mortise and tenon.
Instead of a domino why not the DeWalt Biscuit Joiner? It's about $200 and works well for aligning boards. Does it add any strength to the joint? That's highly debated. I think it adds some just with the increased surface/glue area in the joint. There's also a debate about the need for dominos or biscuits at all. Many woodworkers will tell you that a board will break along the grain before a properly glued joint will. And yes, I've been woodworking for 30+ years, long before Festool was a thing (at least here in the states).
There's always one isn't there just ???
Stop talking about the tools and focus on the type of joint. If you want a mortise and tenon joint the Domino is a rapid way to achieve it. A good idea for you is to go and study some basic joinery techniques and there various merits before you pose fundamentally stupid questions due to your ignorance of joinery,
@@kevinpunter7960 Ummm, ...it's a TOOL video. I've got 34 years of woodworking experience. I think we all know who the stupid one is responding here
I mocked Festool for 20+ years but finally bought a 150/3 ETS-EC and CT36 and that purchase was an eye-opener. There are a lot of things to be said about what Festool tools do best (better than competitive tools) and some things to say about what they don't, but there are some tools that simply do things that nothing else does. The otherwise very good-excellent OSC 18 OMT has a unique and uniquely valuable perpendicular plunge cut fixture. The Domino is...the Domino. Festool 18V batteries were AFAIK the first to offer true battery air cooling on chargers with fans...Milwaukee has only just gotten there. You mentioned the kickback brake on tne TS-55, which is easy to poo-poo, but if you've ever had a kickback you know that you are likely to destroy a track section and may even seriously injure yourself. There are other examples but this is already in "more" territory...
Hi Matt, great video as always!
Many of the things you mention I agree with, but a few I gota wonder about.
When it comes to sanders, think you nailed it. When it comes to a ROTEX i went with the 6" Bosch equivalent at 1/3 the price instead. My thinking is that when I need something that can remove a tone of material, I usually need it for a short time (like to quickly remove a finish) so can deal with handling the sander for short periods to hasten the job, using other sanders for the finer work. A ROTEX just seemed like too much $ for more occasional use not really getting the benefit of Festool sanders.
The Domino is a different issue. I completely agree for production work the Domino is a great option, I use the Dowel Max system myself for hobby work. However, after looking at a number of the cheap Doweling Jointers for the purpose of speeding up the process I came across one from a company called Virutex that looks like a production unit for under $500, higher quality then the cheap ones but not in the stratosphere like the Mafell at $1300 - $1500. Is it a Domino killer....uh, no. Domino is still more versatile. However, the Virutex is more in-line (at least on paper) with something that is affordable for something those in the hobby/small production arena. Worth checking out and would love to see a review on it :)
When it comes to things I would avoid when it comes to Festool, having bought and sold a Festool 1400 router I would put routers in that category. When it comes to the 1400, just just found the handle got more in the way than not, and the dust collection was really no better than alter alternatives I had at the time. I'm not saying they are bad machines, as they are clearly well engineered. I'm just saying that the ergonomics I found questionable (at least when it came to the 1400), the performance was no better, and the dust collection was simply on par, all for double (or more)the price.
I appreciate you these informative videos out!
Be well!
Hey Matt! Awesome video and points to think about. Everyone has there thoughts on brands of tools. Can even turn into a big debate like sports. Like everyone I’m sure most has invested in a battery platform of some brand. I started out with Skill and others. I found myself wanting a better line of tools and Milwaukee became mine. I have ventured to some other brands when wanting corded tools. My first was the 3m 5 inch sander. To me it was like jumping to Festool. I’m currently looking for a better miter saw and have been looking at the Festool 12 inch. Price difference is depressing and not looking to finance a mortgage for that. Might as well buy a Sawstop at that price. lol. It’s easy to see that Festool is a more “professional “ brand and not exactly a hobbyist or DIY person. Just can’t justify those prices for that as for that kind of money can buy something better but not just one tool.
Great video! BTW I’m going to come at ya with those cheesy pick up lines!😂😂😂. I don’t see your wife turning her head for any of them. However I’m sure you got better game than that. lol
Awesome job!
Awesome video Matt. Apart from the tools, I spent a while drooling at your watch. Omega - the woodworkers choice!!
Thanks!
I'll never own a Festool. The price tag is too high for common folk like myself.
Great video Matt. The first part of the video about sanders makes me wonder how much of the value is driven by the Festool technology embodied by the sander Vs the quality of the dust collection.
I couldn’t help but be reminded that Harbor Freight just came out with their own dust extractor under their Hercules brand in the last couple weeks and would love to see you put it’s through its paces.
You’ve already got the top of the line sanders so they would provide a pretty good control condition for a performance experiment pitting the Festool extractor Vs the cheaper knock off alternative.
My japanese grandfather is laughing at this video. 😂
A buddy and I were at a woodcraft store, he pointed over at the Festool wall and asked, “what about those tools?” I said, “Those are the tools rich yuppies buy when they get into woodworking.”
My tools rarely leave my workshop, i don't need a systainer at all, i wish they sold versions in cardboard boxes and knocked 100 off the price.
You include the Kapex. They had well known bearing failures for years. What’s up with that these days????
No clue. I haven't had any issues with mine.
Problems with the armature in pre-2019 models. That was fixed and hasn't been an issue since then.
Why is there so much dust on your dust extractor???
Festool and Hilti are aimed at specific markets. For Festool, it's high-end woodworking and remodeling. Also, in Europe, timber framing and some auto paint. That's it: no lawnmowers, no framing nailers, no tire changing, plumbing etc. And everyone else is playing catchup in their field. If you don't get Festool, you can always find a less-expensive Milwaukee knockoff a decade later. For Hilti, it's big construction - and everyone else is playing catchup there. I absolutely love my "underpowered" Festool CXS, despite the absurd prices of Centrotec accessories. But I shop for ergonomics, cleanliness, and safety, and, if I need it, I have a Hilti 22V drill and corded rotary hammer.
I use my CXS and C18 for "surgery" too :)
Their sanders do not last in a commercial setting. Bosch are 1/3 the price and last 5 times as long.
Devin Field
First Festool anyone should buy is a dust collector.
I think they offer #2 tools in every scenario. The problem for me is the value, they are about 25%- 50% over priced. To me it’s a disconnect. I prefer mafell and makita personally…. The former is the absolute best and the latter is the value brand
The tool doesn't really matter. Its the craftsman skill that matter. Dont need tools that cost two or three times their peers cost.
I have 6 of them, and I love them but I think I need more of them....
What's the watch on your wrist? You gotta start your videos with a "customary wrist check" 😆
ha ha. Omega Planet Ocean
Disney is definitely not worth it to me, but a domino just might be 🤔
No hate here. Festool systainers seem to be designed for use in your wood-shop while all the other brands are designed to be taken to the job site for use. Some of the tools are nice but for what i do, the value isn't there. My DeWalt stuff gets the work done.
Did you know that the Festool headquarter is located in the industry area of a small German town ? It's more like a village actually...
My hometown is just 8km away, so I once called them to announce I'll come by with my circular saw to have a short check.
No way!
They are quite some bigheads 😊
_No, you cannot come here, you must send it to us and before we need all your data, and as well when and where you bought it, then if we checked it we'll send it back to you!_
But my saw was just a worn second hand and nothing seemed to be broken really.
So I asked if I could just fetch a small spare part, as I will be around these days and they said, no, they'll send it to a shop, where I could go and get it after it's delivered.
Germans 😅😅!
Ordnung muss sein!
The Domino is the gateway drug into the Festool system.
The Domino must be used with dust extration otherwise the tool will jam and break the bit.
The CT26, 36, and 46 also have an optional add-on of a pre-seperator that stacks on top for the bigger chips so the extractor unit only takes the really fine dust into the bag.
Lol systainer good for holding up your signs……. ROFLMAO
Don’t buy the rotex 6 inch sander. Get the Bosch, it’s a beast and you can buy a hard pad for it.
Some folks could buy a cheap used car and drive to visit a woodworker who uses Festool and still save money!
its very sucky :D I giggled
My DF500 just shipped today from ToolNut, one of your deals posted from 2 or 3 weeks ago.
Awesome! Congrats!
Mirka Sanders are far superior. Festool sander are large, heavy and vibrate too much.
I have to say you nailed it with the 6” 150 sander. Never in a million years did I think I would pay 600$ for a sander. It was a lot of money for me so don’t think otherwise. But the performance is second to none. I also picked up a used Festool dust distractor for 135$ (stole it) and added an aftermarket cyclone for 100$ to the top and that works amazingly well. I don’t need anything else, it handles my planer and everything else. But one miss here. That miter saw is almost 3 times the cost of good miter saws with almost nothing to justify the price. Sure it’s a great saw but 3 times the price? That’s is probably the one tool they have that is not even close to being worth it in my opinion.
"Forty percent more sanding surface"? Someone remembers his high school geometry! Nicely done.
*Brought to you by FesTOOL.
Festool's never paid me or given me a tool. Ever.
Man. The festool extractor is cheaper than the makita unit. Fail makita, Fail.
That ETS 125 REQ actually has a 2mm stroke, not 3mm. Your information and your video footage are all mixed up.
I really want to make a joke about my experience with a 5mm stroke…😂😂😂
ThumbUp &LeaveAComment 4AIgosAll
All your tool reviews have me broke already where are the project builds and how to?
Thank you for the feedback. I like making this type content and the majority of viewers seem to like it as well. I know it's not for everyone, and that is okay too. I don't plan on focusing on build videos anytime in the near future.
Build videos don't get enough views
If your wood working requires a sander, then you have too much time on your hands. Get a job.
🤔
Like your videos but your drill comments are totally wrong. Had festool cordless drill for 20 years. Tried Dewalt, Panasonic and Milwaukee and they are nothing on the festool drills. Sorry but no....
i may need to get one in and personally test it out for myself. Thanks for the info!
@@731Woodworks The most noticeable difference with the Festool drills IMO is the precision of the trigger. The speed control is so smooth.
Yep Matt, before you dish on the drills you really need to use them. I have several of them. I have many, many many Festool products. Milwaukee products DeWalt products. They all have their purpose. I am changing over to sustainers due to the total oversized nature of the packouts. Also just fills the van with a bunch of plastic. @@731Woodworks
@@731Woodworks You won't regret it. I couldn't go back and we use drills all day long!
@@christianstenvall6023 which model drills do you recommend?
Festool is quality German engineering. Is a Mercedes more expensive than a Chinese car? Sure .. but if you're happy driving a tin coffin, save your money and buy Chinese. You really do get what you pay for with Festool.