I've listened to other stories about this tragedy. And honestly the conductors did their part. He wasn't lazy, he tried to call. That company screwed them.
I've not been able to find recordings or supporting reports online (recently) for the below. (IIRC) One of the TV documentary shows about this incident _initially_ speculated that the company intentionally avoided declaring a weight (and being asked about it) knowing that the RR would bill them for a lower estimated weight. And that previously the RR had always added enough reserve braking capacity that the 'error' didn't add enough extra weight to end in disaster. _However_ later airings trimmed that out, along with an earlier peripheral narrative that the company had to send a larger shipment because the previous one (they'd loaded to by volume to a similar level) wasn't as densely packed because they'd not granulated it sufficiently. And _this_ time they made certain to weight it as they loaded each car to its weight limit to avoid further exciting their customer's ire. - Dunno if that was to make more air time for adds, or it it was determined to be irrelevant since that didn't influence the processes that were supposed to prevent the incident anyways.
My dad was a firefighter for San Bernardino when this happened. It’s one of the few incidents that he has been hesitant to discuss, due to how traumatic it was for all the first responders. He was at the site for hours, and the way he describes how they had to cut the crushed bodies out of the wreckage is horrifying.
@@michaelhakker5227 so interesting to see other San Bernardino people popping up in the comments, I’m sure they must have known each other especially at the same event.
Some more context: 1) The reason Lake Minerals never put down the weight of the train is because they assumed that Southern Pacific would assume each car was filled to its maximum, which they were. Unfortunately, this didn't happen, even though one would expect the assumption of a train being fully loaded if no weight was put down, as... "Better safe than sorry". 2) At this time, Southern Pacific was in very... bad.. shape... The company tended to cut corners and overload its locomotives EXTREMELY often. Just 7 years after this disaster, in 1996, Southern Pacific was bought out by Union Pacific. Apparently rebuilding the Ex-SP trackage was a HUGE headache for UP... 3) Residents smelled gasoline after the cleanup, but Calnev turned it back on because people in Las Vegas basically said, "We have cars worth more than the houses on Duffy Street". 4) The last victim of the disaster who was recovered actually survived! He was trapped in a "cocoon" made of the debris of his mom's house, which he was in, that protected him from being crushed. 5) Had the wrongly estimated weight of the train, 60 tons, been correct, then, even with the crippled locomotives, the train would've been able to go down the grade safely. 6) The helper crew knew that one of their locomotives had no dynamic brakes, but never told the head end crew, likely assuming that dispatch would tell them. One of the helper crew, when asked by the head end crew if his dynamics were working, responded with, "Yeah, I'm in full".
The part on point #5 shows how they were working with uncomfortably small margins. Having just barely enough for what they thought the weight was, not enough for any malfunctions, miscalculations, or other unforeseen circumstances. In most cases a larger margin of safety is desired - but point #2 explains why this wouldn't have been done, a financially-stressed company cutting corners.
Scary stuff there. Like I said above, this might have been the earliest major disaster that I actually remember (I was a bit less than 7 years old at the time; I remember seeing the picture on the front page of the paper).
7 duffy streets houses were illegally built so really if they hadn’t been built there none of you would know about the accident , i’ll keep posting cause it appears you all think you know everything but you don’t
This whole thing is not about one man miscalculating the weight of the ore. This whole thing is about the company that mined the ore not doing their damned job! They hadn't even updated their phone records? They hadn't put the weight on the bill of lading? What kind of clowns were running that circus? If they'd done their jobs at the beginning, right from the start, this would be a non-starter. Discussions of braking, etc., are all pointless if the people at the start of the chain cause the whole system to not work.
Unfortunately, I have to agree. I work in cargo myself and I know from experience that there are lots of incompetent people in the industry who can't seem to provide basic information like a working telephone number. However, there should still be checks in place to make sure things are "OK to Ship."
Рік тому+586
This event is a tragic happening. Not one but two terrible events happened to these people due to negligence by others. Thank you for your quiet and respectful way of narrating these awful happenings.
As I agree this was very respectful, I disagree with quiet. I honestly wouldn't had known this happened if he were quiet about it. Just awful and goes to show the railroad infrastructure is really outdated.
Man, as a fellow railroader, these are heartbreaking to hear about. Our safety rule book is red as they say it was written in blood. It's standard practice currently to under power trains. Precision Scheduled Railroading is a massive misnomer. Doing way more with considerably less. Now they want to take the conductor out of the cab and run 1 man freight trains. For the safety of all the communities we operate in, we can't let that happen.
@@katieandkevinsears7724 I am not a railroader, and yet, one person crews has to be one of the dumbest, bass-ackwards, least safety-conscious proposals I have ever heard.
I've lived right near the site of this accident my entire life, and I can say from personal experience that the Cajon Pass's incline is no joke. I drove by the train tracks coming out of it just yesterday, and there was a train sitting at the grain silos near the bottom of the pass just emanating this overwhelming smell of burning brakes that made it hard to breathe. It was like 1000 clutches dying at once
The survivors of both of these disasters were victimized again by unscrupulous accident lawyers who pocketed their money and did little for them. Your video was very good and respectful of all involved in this sad incident.
I lived a city away and was seven when this occurred. The sky was so full of smoke it blocked the sun making a creepy orange shade I’ve yet to see since. Years later, As an adult I lived next to these tracks for 12 years and I was always scared another event would occur as my house was right at bottom of cajon pass where a curve in the tracks lay. The muscoy train accident happened literally a mile away down. The same train flew right passed/behind this home. There is barely anything left from this accident scene, I checked it out myself. Muscoy was and still is a rough area. What happened here was a travesty beyond belief, from the crash, the explosion, and the lawyer who stole from the citizens afterwards.
As somewhat of a local to this general area, and knowledgeable of the Cajon Pass, the accuracy of the imagery and commentary was spot on. Since You Tube content creators aren’t necessarily bound to the same accuracy that news gathering organizations adhere to, I often digest content with skepticism. I’ve been following Fascinating Horror for a couple years now and have always found the content interesting and well-researched. However, when the story takes place in my backyard, spotting inaccuracy would be easy. As always, this channel delivers on a high level. Thank you for taking the time to make this content and for caring about the final result. It’s much appreciated.
Seriously, as a former Socal resident, the Cajon Pass can be a pretty scary grade. I can only imagine what it's like for a train engineer, given how grades and friction are much more problematic for trains than cars. It's surprising that there haven't been more huge train wrecks on this pass.
I was literally thinking that too. I’ve always been obsessed with San Bernardino history and never really heard of this incident until now. I love this channel 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I was going to second grade in San Bernardino when this happened. On the day of the pipeline rupture, our class was heading over to Riverside for a field trip. The smoke plume from the fire seemed to fill the whole sky, even twenty miles away. I'm not surprised that some firefighting equipment wasn't quite able to handle it.
I was there for the earthquake. Fortunately, we were living in Richmond, and had no damage. If it weren’t for the baseball game that day, hundreds or more would have died.
1989 is known in China as the Year of the Snake: historically, some of the worst disasters occurred in those years. Does KLM and Pan Am in 1977 remind you of anything?
El Cajon Pass is one of the deadliest curves in US railroading. Viewers would probably be shocked to hear that this was the first of 3 major derailments at the curve prior to 2000
I live only 45mins - 1 hour's drive south of the Cajon Pass, and that pass is an absolute beast just for regular vehicles and diesel trucks to traverse. So, trains really do have quite the challenge to safely get through. Side note: The Cajon Pass is actually an observable geological feature created by the infamous San Andres Fault, as the fault cuts into and divides two mountain ranges: the San Bernardino Mountains on the east side of the pass, and the San Gabriel Mountains on the west side of the pass.
Huh. I had never even heard of this dual disaster despite it being relatively close-by, so sadly I'm *very* surprised the companies at fault both were held responsible *and* made fixes. I was expecting the guy who "reasonably" underestimated the tonnage to get thrown under the bus or, well, train to be honest given all the shielding corporations tend to have. I imagine that man still felt rather guilty though.
I'm sure he did! But if the bill of lading had been properly filled out OR if the phone number had been kept updated, he wouldn't have NEEDED to estimate the weight! Clearly not his fault & I'm glad that was recognized!
The added rule that was made to assume the train was full if no documentation was given was reversed, showing still how greedy and careless the company is.
@@BewareTheLilyOfTheValley Ah. "Fun". Much like I was sadly surprised with them being held accountable at all, if this is true, then I am sadly unsurprised at "even" freight train companies going out of their ways to cut corners in attempts to save costs (so they can already wealth shareholders more) despite all the damage and death a derailment cause can.
The NTSB doesn't look to throw anyone under the bus. If there was a policy in place the guy missed, they would have called him out on it in their reports. Likely, there wasn't a policy, leaving it up to his judgement on how to handle the situation. Notice it was pointed out that a policy was either created or updated specifically stating to assume max tonnage after the fact. That probably was in response to the NTSB report.
@@jackielinde7568 Noted, though I wasn't talking about the NTSB anyway, which mostly seems professional even if it has doubtless made mistakes and had its own issues. I was talking about him being thrown under the bus by either or even both companies involved and in being generally pilloried in the court of public opinion since people naturally look for others to blame, which unfortunately is easier to do with individuals than it is with companies since the former having faces to go their names.
I have seen a lot of people covering this, i just want to say this is one of the best versions of the accident. I really got the chills from your narration, and the photos you’ve picked. Keep up the good work!
Well, with some nonsense in it. A tonne is exactly 1000 kilograms, so 91 000 kilos is not 100 tonnes, same as 54 000 is not 60 tonnes. Also it is impossible for the wheels to glow blue as you can't get this heat from friction as it will melt at yellowish white and the friction would stop, so the temperature would never increase anywhere near to 5000 Kelvin to start making blue light.
Much lower death toll than other derailments like Lac Megantic or most commuter train incidents, but I'm glad this was brought to light because there's still a lot to be learned from these mistakes.
It's Tuesday!! I lived in this area when it happened. 😳 Cajon Pass is a loooong downhill run for a train. 😳 And a big thumbs up for pronouncing "Cajon" perfectly! 😁
Every time I hear about disasters like this and hear about the lack of communication and the fact that everyone thought everything was safe, I just shake my head. It’s always a series of unfortunate events and it makes a huge disaster. May the ones who have passed rest in peace.
A terrible chain reaction, indeed. First the train got derailed and crash into San Bernardino. Then time passed by, a huge fire came along. I feel sorry for those who loss that day.
Omg! This is my hometown! I grew up not too far from where it happened! It freaked me out as a kid and I still have a lingering fear of trains. There area is still pretty vacant, as shown on the map. So cool and crazy you did one from here!
Even though I was in the Navy and serving out of San Diego at the time, this is another disaster that I wasn't aware of. Thank you, FH, for another well done story.
Canjon Pass has seen three runaway train accidents. After this one, in 1994 a Santa Fe container train plowed into the rear of a Union Pacific train after losing its breaks, and then in 1996 another Santa Fe (by this point now the BNSF railway) lost its brakes and also hit a sharp curve and crash. It took awhile for these runaways trains to finally be resolved.
One small little nitpick. Steel (or any metal I know) does not 'glow blue'. If heated and cooled preciecely, I believe it was just under 650°C, it discolours to a bright, metallic, enchanted blue. The process is called 'blueing' and protects from rust to a degree. Its quite beautifull. All else thank you for another great video 😃
I've been watching you for a few years now. This is the first incident you covered that happened in an area where I was born and raised, and still currently live in. I've never heard of this incident, but I do know that the Cajon Pass is a gnarly route. I've driven up and down it many times, and even cars have to be extremely careful not to get too fast going down. I can't imagine the disaster of a heavy train going down at high speed. I always thought the trains going up and down the pass went too slow, but now I know they're just at the right, safe speed. Thanks for covering this!
one Minor but also major correction, Gas pipe lines in the US only primarily contain either Crude oil or Natural Gas. There are some minor exceptions but those are usually on large private property stretches and not near major transport ways. Gasoline has never been transported by pipe across any stretch of land outside of a oil refinery.
Are you sure? I thought the pipeline was carrying liquid gasoline to Las Vegas. The "Mayday" episode used the term "gas" but showed liquid spraying out in their dramatization. The height of the pass would explain the high pressure on Duffy Street, if the shut-off valves failed. They'd have to wait until the whole pipeline drained out...
@@johnmorriss5308 Positive. plus Dramatization is just that ,made to look good, Now it could of been a pressurized gas that had due to pressure been liquefied but it'd be a Natural gas line 100%. Now Natural Gas can and has been used as an Umbrella term to include Butane, Propane, and Pentane when talking about transporting it but the line was most likely a pressurized Natural gas line.
The steel wheels didn't "glow" blue. The steel was permanently discolored a bluish hue due to the heat from the incident. That is not an indication that they were still hot hours later.
On some machine shop sites, you can see that the metal chips come off the lathe and turn blue a few milliseconds after they fly off (from exposure to the air), and then stay that color. Or some other color, depending on the temps and steel composition
When there's this many failures at once, it's indicative of not just a person, but a company-wide or industry-wide culture that needs to be straightened out.
I've known the difference for a long time now, and it still catches me off-guard when I come across "tonnes". That's basically another disaster waiting to happen when some overworked and underpaid worker applies the wrong conversion factor on some heavy load somewhere. (I am aware that this was not the cause of this particular disaster)
There are three ton(ne)s I know: Metric ton - 1000kg (2204lbs) UK tonne (or US long ton) - 2240lbs (1016kg) US short ton (used in the video) - 2000lbs (907kg)
Now do we get the other two runaway trains in the same pass as follow up episodes? On that note, the mayday call gives me chills every time, doing 90 down a mountain pass going into tight curves, no thanks. Given the brakes were, if I recall right melted and those that werebn't were disconnected by the emergency brake....to me jumping off would not have helped at all. I do wonder what happened to the mineral company though, did they go under before sending out the shipment or? Also, not sure if it's mentioned at the very end, but a third disaster, at least for the families was the lawyer they used skipped town with all the money and wasn't heard from again, IIRC he just up and vanished into thin air.
We used to drive through that area all the time to visit my grandmother in Hesperia. But I left California in the early 80s and if I ever heard about this I had forgotten. Today when I heard the narrator say “El Cajon pass” it immediately caught my attention. Thank you for a well done and respectful accounting of the accidents. I enjoy your videos very much and always learn something new.
Being a math teacher, I’m so angry that it was a serious math calculation mistake that caused this horrible tragedy! My heart goes out to all the victims and their families. As I tell my students-always triple check your numbers-are they reasonable, logical, and most importantly accurate!
For extra context, this was coming off of the failed Southern Pacific Santa Fe (SPSF) merger (side note: the 2nd engine, SD45R 7551, still wore the “Kodachrome” scheme of the failed merger) and the Southern Pacific being sold to the Denver and Rio Grande Western (D&RGW) hence why half of the wrecked hoppers were Rio Grande 3483 cu. ft. cars.
This disaster was the beginning of the end for Southern Pacific, they were nearly bankrupt when they were bought and merged into competitor Union Pacific in 1996.
Can you make a video about the 1963 Skopje Earthquake? It’s gonna be the 60th anniversary on the 26th soon and the whole moment had a significant cultural impact where I live.
I love how coincidentally, this video and last weeks video about Gloria Ramirez both took place in Southern Californian. As a local, it’s pretty cool seeing stories so close to home, especially since you cover stories all around the world! Great video!
Thanks for covering this! you’re the best when it comes to telling these stories & the San Bernardino train disaster has been a lifelong fascination of mine due to all the variables around it. I either suggested this topic or meant to suggest it, my memory doesn’t work the best sometimes lol
wow... i grew up in Hesperia, which is only about 45 minutes away, and i have never heard of this disaster. granted, i've never been to San Bernardino, but i drove through the cajon pass many times growing up as i have family in orange county. when i saw the title, i clicked immediately because i thought maybe something had happened recently that i didn't know about (i moved out of state in 2014, but still have family in the area). as usual, these tragedies were a result of company incompetence, and everyone else suffered the consequences. what company doesn't have up-to-date numbers in their system? ESPECIALLY important ones? unbelievable. it's always frustrating when these events could've been avoided if one detail were different.
This incident has a sort of unique place in the history of the Mayday series because it's one of only three episodes where they covered a accident that wasn't a air crash. All three episodes are from fairly early on in the show's history, I think they were experimenting with different content in those days.
Counts for that as there was a radio "Mayday" call. What were the other two non-airplane incidents? I believe in some markets "Mayday" was called "Air Crash Investigation," though that might have been a name applied to the series later on.
@@quillmaurer6563 I think there was a ferry grounding and sinking in the Mediterranean, and possibly a head-on crash in Western Canada between a grain train and a passenger train...
I just want to give a side note kudos on your pronunciation, Mr Fascinating Horror Sir. As a native to Southern California, I have heard plenty of UA-camrs mispronounce many of our location names, and it is refreshing to hear them pronounced well. So thank you!
It's one of several things he does that make this one of my favorite channels. He does his best on each and every video, even right down to proper pronunciations.
Did you know that there was more than one runaway on El Cajon? The one in 1996 wasn't in a residential area, but it was a hazmat catastrophe. Interstate 15, the main road between Southern California and Las Vegas, was completely closed for over 24 hours. The crew died. In 1994 a descending train rear ended a stationary coal train, but no fatalities.
As usual, you distill the story so concisely. Admirable! I was also heartened to hear you pronounce "Cajon" more or less as we do. "Topeka" on the other hand .... 😉
I remember when this happened! I was 16 years old living in Downey California about 70 miles away from the accident. I remember watching it on the news at Grannies house. 🚂 💥
I just stumbled across your channel and I just want to tell you that you do an incredible job telling these stories. You are thorough and manage to answer all the questions we might have while also paying respect to those that have been impacted by these tragic events. Thank you for sharing their stories with so much care and consideration, something I often feel is lacking in similar content. I think there's a lot to be gained from understanding our history. After all--"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." You've made a new subscriber out of me. Keep up the great work.
I actually wrote the script for this specific one, but thank you :) He does tell great stories, and it's a privilege to be able to write for him and learn from him.
I use this disaster all the time at work as an example where things were wrong but everybody who knew things were wrong also assumed others knew and would deal with it or fix it. And the truth is, nobody knew. Nobody told anyone. Nobody took action, because why should they when the next person would fix it? At work, this manifests as person A making a product but not paying attention to quality because we had a QA person B who would catch and reject any bad work. Meanwhile the QA person, a temp being paid minimum wage, had been told the A workers did perfect work that didn't really need to be checked. It could be trusted. So the net result was everybody assuming someone else would catch any issues, Nobody actually DID and bad stuff shipped out all the time. I have tried in vain for years to explain why this was a bad practice and why relying upon an untrained temp as the last chance to stop it was bad. Nobody cares.
I absolutely love that you've chosen stories that haven't been read to death, I applaud the delivery of the story and all the facts painstakingly gathered to deliver an awesome presentation. Thank you! You have a subscriber for life.
Another great video. I clearly remember this happening, I still lived in L.A. then. The Cajon Pass has been a heavily traveled route for trains, and for long haul truckers and cars on I-15 as long as I can remember. As bad as this double tragedy was, the loss of life was lower than similar accidents over time. I love freight trains, but one wrong move and the disaster could cause even more damage than a plane crash.
It's mind boggling that a table of average weights for minerals was not available to the yard clerk. Especially for materials frequently hauled on the railway.
I once witnessed the aftermath of a train collision near Laramie Wyoming. One freight train going over 60 MPH rear-ended another train stopped on the tracks. The distance the cars were thrown was unbelievable. I swore then never to live within a few hundred yards of a railroad.
I remember the photograph of the huge fire in my local papers, though I didn’t remember the event behind it. I wonder how the mineral company explained away the disconnected phone number, which would have been listed on all paperwork. As always, I enjoy your matter of fact, without embellishments, narration.
The idea of cargo being released without a completed bill of lading is an insane thought to anyone in the industry!! And where was the cargo receipt? Those give weight also.
The entity ordering the shipment of goods generates a bill of lading & presents it to the carrier (SP Trans Co in this case). In the RR world, the RR generates its own internal record called a waybill. The waybill has several different uses, financial, data accumulation, instructions for the train crews (primarily the conductor). Don't think RR back then, or now for that matter, issue a "cargo receipt" to the shipper. The shipper's cc of the BL accepted by the carrier is the "receipt".
i've lived in san bernardino for most of my life and had never heard of this incident. cajon pass is really steep, even to drive, so i'm unfortunately not surprised that a train derailed going down that path. i am glad that things have been updated enough that another incident like this hasn't happened again- a fire in cajon pass (again) would be a beast to put out. thank you for making this video, always a treat to see you upload.
it was the second order of "trona" placed by the South American Prince, who was building a new palace (he claimed that the concrete produced from mixing cement with trona was way harder than the concrete produced by mixing cement with sand), so he ordered a load (his first order). The loaders pretty much guesstimated how full to fill the rail cars, they ended up shorting the prince, who complained but still ordered a second load, so they made damn sure they didn't short the prince twice, hence the extra heavy load
I have to imagine the police officer who saw it happen and called for help. Probably took him a few seconds to grasp that this was in fact actually happening.
Many people dismiss mathematics as not having real world application. This however is just one of many examples of a simple miscalculation yielding deadly consequences.
@@mjmooney6530 Well put! (I was going to say weights and measures and gravity, etc., but I only have a 4 year degree, so I know I don't know lol.) How I got through Trig is a mystery. 😳
So many things going wrong, resulting in such a tragedy. I remembered that there had been a derailment in the pass, but never heard all the details before. That opening shot of the freeway was like a bucket of cold water; I instantly recognized the general area, having driven through it quite a few times over the years. All your videos show tragic events, but they hit a little differently when one is familiar with the location.
Jeez, this one is almost a bingo card of 'name what went wrong'. Good to hear that changes were made in the aftermath, though, instead of sweeping it under the rug as in some cases we've heard. While it seems sensible to over-estimate the weight as in assuming the cars weight their max, I can see why the clerk did as he did. What I don't understand is why, having caught the error in the computer, the second person wouldn't have double checked. Hindsight is 20/20... Thank you for putting weights and speeds in both metric and imperial -- I appreciate all your work and calm delivery, as always!
Coming from a railway family, I really felt the impact of this story. Not putting the weight on the bill of lading is considered a serious sin. It creates problems for everyone, from the yard crews to the train crews to the billing departments - frequently transport is billed by weight. Derailments are an absolute nightmare! I can remember my Dad being called out in the middle of the night numerous times because of derailments, though often they were relatively minor, with only a few cars off the track. But even then, the environmental impacts could be significant. When human lives were lost, those were the worst! Why do people decide to build beside the tracks though? Inevitably, it's a choice, with the tracks having been there first. I don't mean to sound cold - everyone is devastated by these instances! They're hugely tragic!! I've just never understood why anyone would consciously choose to live within feet of a track on which something as heavy and possibly lethal as a train travels, even given that they're mostly safe. Something can always go wrong. And why do people insist on placing items on the tracks? Even something as small as a penny can, under the right circumstances, derail a train and cause a ridiculous amount of damage!
There seem to be a lot of stories of houses being built in a dangerous spot, we always ask why they built there in retrospect. Flood zones are another spot we question. In this case it wasn't just beside the tracks, but on the outside and below an elevated curve, even a minor derailment could have sent cars tumbling onto the houses, I've seen videos of cars tumbling down embankments like that.
When I was younger, the only places that I could afford were next to train tracks. I imagine those who build next to them do so because it is not prime real estate. Greed? Those in low income range have little choice but to rent such places.
@@quillmaurer6563 good point! I tend to question why anyone would want to live beside the tracks from a noise standpoint alone - though you tend to tune it out after a while - but for safety too (I worked next to the tracks for years and later lived in a beautiful apartment that's only drawback was that it was close enough to the tracks to hear the trains, but far enough away for safety). Then again, I've had railway safety drilled into my head for my entire life! (I remember having to cross the tracks to get to school in grade one and being taught what to do if I'm ever caught by a train and can't get to safety. But I'm "mature" and kids probably wouldn't be walking that distance in the conditions we walked it these days! 😹😹😹) I live in an area where the river regularly overflows its banks every spring. I live in the country, well away from the river and on higher ground, but when my son was buying a house, train tracks and flooding were two things we were very conscious of when looking. Flood risk is something that had to be disclosed (if asked) and he turned down some nice homes at low prices to avoid that problem - he didn't even look at them if there was a risk. I don't understand why people knowingly take these risks, then complain when they're evacuated or incur damage - or simply hate the noise! It's like with airports. They seem to think the tracks or airports should be relocated for their convenience!!🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️
@@theladyinblack3055 Thinking of the noise, I personally would take trains over a lot of other noise sources like a freeway, airport, or even the neighbor's lawn mower or incessantly barking dog. Trains come by every once in a while - not sure how often on this line but the "busy" Moffat Sub a couple miles from me only sees a few trains per day these days - make some noise, then go away, peace restored. Those other things are or can be nearly constant. As a small-plane pilot, I see the noise complaint thing a lot, neighborhoods built around a long existing airport and noise complaints follow. Thinking of the safety side, I think some people aren't aware of the risk, or just do whatever they can afford - can get a better house for less money in that way, they accept the risk for that. Though as Debbieellett pointed out, many don't have any other choice. Next to a railroad is probably not that huge a risk actually, as even while things like this do happen on occasion, and get a lot of attention, the odds of a major train derailment at any given spot within an entire lifetime are probably very small, most neighborhoods next to tracks like this have never had a train crash into them and never will. Well unless the relaxed railway regulations and short-term-profit-chasing cost-cutting railway parent holding companies keep having more crashes like the East Palestine Ohio derailment last February. Flooding on the other hand is one of those things that is almost guaranteed to happen eventually, it's a when rather than if. Or, as a Coloradoan, I see these mountain communities and houses being scorched by forest fires. Then there's entire cities built in areas that repeatedly get pounded by hurricanes. Those things - flooding, wildfires, hurricanes - I see as far more likely, inevitable even, than a train crash in a given spot. Combining these two factors, I'd gladly take a house beside a railroad over a house near a freeway in New Orleans.
I lived in the high desert at the time of this incident, I remember reading all about it. Again, like the tragedies in previous videos, it takes a tragedy to fix things to save from further tragedies happening in the future, in this case two tragedies. I'm glad you pronounced Cajon nicely, and not say Cajun, as in Cajun fries. lol Going down that pass in the winter with snow was scary. You had to put chains on and drive slowwww.
Very well done, FH, thank you. I can't imagine what a living hell this was for the train crew. 90 miles per hour, and you are guaranteed to wreck at the curve. Jumping out is not an option (not really), so all you can do is wait for the inevitable. Horror indeed.
my grandpa was a volunteer firefighter in a small town on the desert side of pass. i remember him telling my mom about how the fire fighting equipment was melting from the heat and how the whole thing was twice "the all around FUBAR (fucked up beyond all repair) show". then my grandma scolding him for saying FUBAR around us kid, even though we had no idea what it ment.
So interesting to see you cover the story, since I've currently lived in the area of San Bernardino. When I first learned about this about a year ago, I decided to take a trip over to the neighborhood where it happened. To this day, the lots of the houses that the train derailed and smash through are still completely vacant, and there are still empty Lots nearby from where the fires burned down the homes that originally stood. It's an eerie sight to see. Not even so much as a memorial has been placed, only an empty lot with gouged soil and some trash, even after all these years.
For two disasters to happen within two weeks of each other, it's miraculous that only 6 people lost their lives. As sad as it is that 6 people died, at least the necessary action was taken to prevent another tragedy like this from happening again..RIP to the six victims of this tragedy
I remember this being all over the national news. The fact that the shipping company didn’t bother the keep that railroad offices up to date on their contact information is unconscionable, especially when they don’t bother to fill out their paperwork properly. The person responsible had to know that the number of engines was based on load weight and that was absolutely critical information. For his part, the clerk should have maxed out the estimate and if fees were based on weight, charge them the maximum if they don’t bother to give accurate information. If they didn’t want to be charged for extra weight, they should have accurately weighed their load. At least 6 people died because of this carelessness.
I was the publisher of the Fontana Herald News at the time. One of my reporters was on the science when the pipeline exploded and got photos that went world wide. Quite a coup for a little weekly paper!
I remember that happening when I was a kid. My mom had a job that required her to drive through that pass everyday and she got stuck on the other side of it twice and this was before there were cell phones so she had a hard time calling us and telling us that she couldn't make it home that night but that she was fine.
eerily similar to an event 89 years prior--the casey jones incident. casey jones avoided disaster by sacrificing himself and entered the american pantheon of unsung heroes. the grateful dead even made a hit song out of it. i know that fascinating horror could make a respectful video of the actual events if he so chose
I've listened to other stories about this tragedy. And honestly the conductors did their part. He wasn't lazy, he tried to call. That company screwed them.
I've not been able to find recordings or supporting reports online (recently) for the below.
(IIRC) One of the TV documentary shows about this incident _initially_ speculated that the company intentionally avoided declaring a weight (and being asked about it) knowing that the RR would bill them for a lower estimated weight. And that previously the RR had always added enough reserve braking capacity that the 'error' didn't add enough extra weight to end in disaster.
_However_ later airings trimmed that out, along with an earlier peripheral narrative that the company had to send a larger shipment because the previous one (they'd loaded to by volume to a similar level) wasn't as densely packed because they'd not granulated it sufficiently. And _this_ time they made certain to weight it as they loaded each car to its weight limit to avoid further exciting their customer's ire. - Dunno if that was to make more air time for adds, or it it was determined to be irrelevant since that didn't influence the processes that were supposed to prevent the incident anyways.
@@LynxSnowCat Either way, Southern Pacific was kinda dying at the time, so it wouldn't be too surprising to know that there were lapses in management.
My dad was a firefighter for San Bernardino when this happened. It’s one of the few incidents that he has been hesitant to discuss, due to how traumatic it was for all the first responders. He was at the site for hours, and the way he describes how they had to cut the crushed bodies out of the wreckage is horrifying.
My grandfather worked this as well. He warned them to check those pipes before the second disaster. I'm sure your father knew him
my dad was an engineer for san bernardino city fire. A,Figueroa.
@@DrFigs hey that sounds familiar, my dad is E Chappell, he finally retired a few years ago.
@@michaelhakker5227 so interesting to see other San Bernardino people popping up in the comments, I’m sure they must have known each other especially at the same event.
Oh yes.
Some more context:
1) The reason Lake Minerals never put down the weight of the train is because they assumed that Southern Pacific would assume each car was filled to its maximum, which they were. Unfortunately, this didn't happen, even though one would expect the assumption of a train being fully loaded if no weight was put down, as... "Better safe than sorry".
2) At this time, Southern Pacific was in very... bad.. shape... The company tended to cut corners and overload its locomotives EXTREMELY often. Just 7 years after this disaster, in 1996, Southern Pacific was bought out by Union Pacific. Apparently rebuilding the Ex-SP trackage was a HUGE headache for UP...
3) Residents smelled gasoline after the cleanup, but Calnev turned it back on because people in Las Vegas basically said, "We have cars worth more than the houses on Duffy Street".
4) The last victim of the disaster who was recovered actually survived! He was trapped in a "cocoon" made of the debris of his mom's house, which he was in, that protected him from being crushed.
5) Had the wrongly estimated weight of the train, 60 tons, been correct, then, even with the crippled locomotives, the train would've been able to go down the grade safely.
6) The helper crew knew that one of their locomotives had no dynamic brakes, but never told the head end crew, likely assuming that dispatch would tell them. One of the helper crew, when asked by the head end crew if his dynamics were working, responded with, "Yeah, I'm in full".
The part on point #5 shows how they were working with uncomfortably small margins. Having just barely enough for what they thought the weight was, not enough for any malfunctions, miscalculations, or other unforeseen circumstances. In most cases a larger margin of safety is desired - but point #2 explains why this wouldn't have been done, a financially-stressed company cutting corners.
Scary stuff there. Like I said above, this might have been the earliest major disaster that I actually remember (I was a bit less than 7 years old at the time; I remember seeing the picture on the front page of the paper).
7 duffy streets houses were illegally built so really if they hadn’t been built there none of you would know about the accident , i’ll keep posting cause it appears you all think you know everything but you don’t
When you assume it makes an ass out of u and me.
The word "assume" was used alot. Assumptions whilst running ore. Dang.
A lot of assumptions...
This whole thing is not about one man miscalculating the weight of the ore. This whole thing is about the company that mined the ore not doing their damned job! They hadn't even updated their phone records? They hadn't put the weight on the bill of lading? What kind of clowns were running that circus? If they'd done their jobs at the beginning, right from the start, this would be a non-starter. Discussions of braking, etc., are all pointless if the people at the start of the chain cause the whole system to not work.
It’s not the train, it’s the weight!
And trona has been mined and transported via the same train route since 1905-ish, so it's not even a new commodity.
Yeah those leeches should have been put behind bars for extreme criminal negligence for sure.
Safety procedures is about making sure single mistakes doesn't become catastrophes. Every single error along the way contributed.
Unfortunately, I have to agree. I work in cargo myself and I know from experience that there are lots of incompetent people in the industry who can't seem to provide basic information like a working telephone number. However, there should still be checks in place to make sure things are "OK to Ship."
This event is a tragic happening. Not one but two terrible events happened to these people due to negligence by others. Thank you for your quiet and respectful way of narrating these awful happenings.
I'm not sure six people dying is "one of the most tragic disasters", given that some have killed thousands.
Definitely not the most tragic but Definitely despicable negligence
As I agree this was very respectful, I disagree with quiet. I honestly wouldn't had known this happened if he were quiet about it. Just awful and goes to show the railroad infrastructure is really outdated.
@mhalikphillips8004 , agreed. And Pete Buttplug is not helping things any.
I agree... NMRIH is a great source mod
Man, as a fellow railroader, these are heartbreaking to hear about. Our safety rule book is red as they say it was written in blood. It's standard practice currently to under power trains. Precision Scheduled Railroading is a massive misnomer. Doing way more with considerably less. Now they want to take the conductor out of the cab and run 1 man freight trains. For the safety of all the communities we operate in, we can't let that happen.
I too am a fellow railroader. I will not be the one man on the crew. I'm willing to leave after 21 years if that trash is forced on us.
Precision scheduled railroading- neither precision, nor scheduled, and barely railroading
@@katieandkevinsears7724 I am not a railroader, and yet, one person crews has to be one of the dumbest, bass-ackwards, least safety-conscious proposals I have ever heard.
I've lived right near the site of this accident my entire life, and I can say from personal experience that the Cajon Pass's incline is no joke. I drove by the train tracks coming out of it just yesterday, and there was a train sitting at the grain silos near the bottom of the pass just emanating this overwhelming smell of burning brakes that made it hard to breathe. It was like 1000 clutches dying at once
bullshit , trains use compressed air for their brakes .
😮😮😮
That puts track day brake fade to shame
The survivors of both of these disasters were victimized again by unscrupulous accident lawyers who pocketed their money and did little for them. Your video was very good and respectful of all involved in this sad incident.
GREED RULES. GREED DESTROYS. MAN IS DRIVEN BY GREED.
I lived a city away and was seven when this occurred. The sky was so full of smoke it blocked the sun making a creepy orange shade I’ve yet to see since. Years later, As an adult I lived next to these tracks for 12 years and I was always scared another event would occur as my house was right at bottom of cajon pass where a curve in the tracks lay. The muscoy train accident happened literally a mile away down. The same train flew right passed/behind this home. There is barely anything left from this accident scene, I checked it out myself. Muscoy was and still is a rough area. What happened here was a travesty beyond belief, from the crash, the explosion, and the lawyer who stole from the citizens afterwards.
As somewhat of a local to this general area, and knowledgeable of the Cajon Pass, the accuracy of the imagery and commentary was spot on. Since You Tube content creators aren’t necessarily bound to the same accuracy that news gathering organizations adhere to, I often digest content with skepticism. I’ve been following Fascinating Horror for a couple years now and have always found the content interesting and well-researched. However, when the story takes place in my backyard, spotting inaccuracy would be easy. As always, this channel delivers on a high level. Thank you for taking the time to make this content and for caring about the final result. It’s much appreciated.
Seriously, as a former Socal resident, the Cajon Pass can be a pretty scary grade. I can only imagine what it's like for a train engineer, given how grades and friction are much more problematic for trains than cars. It's surprising that there haven't been more huge train wrecks on this pass.
I was literally thinking that too. I’ve always been obsessed with San Bernardino history and never really heard of this incident until now. I love this channel 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
How unlucky could one place be that it was struck by 2 tragedies within 2 weeks of each other
Um... doubly unlucky?
And 2 residents died each time
Its San Berdoo, the people are already unlucky by the very nature of having to live there.
I was going to second grade in San Bernardino when this happened. On the day of the pipeline rupture, our class was heading over to Riverside for a field trip. The smoke plume from the fire seemed to fill the whole sky, even twenty miles away. I'm not surprised that some firefighting equipment wasn't quite able to handle it.
Not only did these events happen, 1989 was also the year of the horrible earthquake. It’s like California just couldn’t catch a break that year.
I was there for the earthquake. Fortunately, we were living in Richmond, and had no damage. If it weren’t for the baseball game that day, hundreds or more would have died.
Good to put disasters into the time perspective!
And in England we had the dreadful Hillsborough Football stadium disaster, and the Kegworth air crash!
Also, the crack epidemic ravaged California at that time, or at least the bigger cities.
1989 is known in China as the Year of the Snake: historically, some of the worst disasters occurred in those years. Does KLM and Pan Am in 1977 remind you of anything?
El Cajon Pass is one of the deadliest curves in US railroading. Viewers would probably be shocked to hear that this was the first of 3 major derailments at the curve prior to 2000
Out narrator may not be
That must’ve been absolutely terrifying. And it’s so sad this all could’ve been avoided. Thank you for sharing this story.
I live only 45mins - 1 hour's drive south of the Cajon Pass, and that pass is an absolute beast just for regular vehicles and diesel trucks to traverse. So, trains really do have quite the challenge to safely get through.
Side note: The Cajon Pass is actually an observable geological feature created by the infamous San Andres Fault, as the fault cuts into and divides two mountain ranges: the San Bernardino Mountains on the east side of the pass, and the San Gabriel Mountains on the west side of the pass.
The Cajon Pass and the Siskiyou Pass in Oregon are the worst I've been on for downhill speed
Hemet?
@@bakomusha MoVal, actually. Been to Hemet a few times though.
@@bakomusha good guess, you were close. Hemet is my hometown, it's so sad to see it fall apart.
Huh. I had never even heard of this dual disaster despite it being relatively close-by, so sadly I'm *very* surprised the companies at fault both were held responsible *and* made fixes.
I was expecting the guy who "reasonably" underestimated the tonnage to get thrown under the bus or, well, train to be honest given all the shielding corporations tend to have. I imagine that man still felt rather guilty though.
I'm sure he did! But if the bill of lading had been properly filled out OR if the phone number had been kept updated, he wouldn't have NEEDED to estimate the weight! Clearly not his fault & I'm glad that was recognized!
The added rule that was made to assume the train was full if no documentation was given was reversed, showing still how greedy and careless the company is.
@@BewareTheLilyOfTheValley Ah. "Fun". Much like I was sadly surprised with them being held accountable at all, if this is true, then I am sadly unsurprised at "even" freight train companies going out of their ways to cut corners in attempts to save costs (so they can already wealth shareholders more) despite all the damage and death a derailment cause can.
The NTSB doesn't look to throw anyone under the bus. If there was a policy in place the guy missed, they would have called him out on it in their reports. Likely, there wasn't a policy, leaving it up to his judgement on how to handle the situation. Notice it was pointed out that a policy was either created or updated specifically stating to assume max tonnage after the fact. That probably was in response to the NTSB report.
@@jackielinde7568 Noted, though I wasn't talking about the NTSB anyway, which mostly seems professional even if it has doubtless made mistakes and had its own issues. I was talking about him being thrown under the bus by either or even both companies involved and in being generally pilloried in the court of public opinion since people naturally look for others to blame, which unfortunately is easier to do with individuals than it is with companies since the former having faces to go their names.
I have seen a lot of people covering this, i just want to say this is one of the best versions of the accident. I really got the chills from your narration, and the photos you’ve picked. Keep up the good work!
Well, with some nonsense in it. A tonne is exactly 1000 kilograms, so 91 000 kilos is not 100 tonnes, same as 54 000 is not 60 tonnes. Also it is impossible for the wheels to glow blue as you can't get this heat from friction as it will melt at yellowish white and the friction would stop, so the temperature would never increase anywhere near to 5000 Kelvin to start making blue light.
@@petrmaly9087You're thinking of the wrong unit of measurement. Also, that was from the report of the NTSB, so... Their words.
Much lower death toll than other derailments like Lac Megantic or most commuter train incidents, but I'm glad this was brought to light because there's still a lot to be learned from these mistakes.
Does it really matter how many people died? People still died
@@jr2904 yes
My heart breaks at the 2 kids who suffocated, a sad reminder you are not completely safe within your own home
It's Tuesday!! I lived in this area when it happened. 😳 Cajon Pass is a loooong downhill run for a train. 😳 And a big thumbs up for pronouncing "Cajon" perfectly! 😁
Is it a soft J?
@@Clay-ge1fuyes. Like yogging
@@Clay-ge1fu Yes, the j is pronounced like Spanish does. An "h" sound. "Kuh", rhymes with duhh, "hone", rhymes with moan. 🙂
Some people pronounce it like “Cajun” 😂
@@changkwangoh It's fun when someone from out of state is asked to pronounce places like Rubidoux, Jurupa, Cahuilla, Placentia, San Jacinto....🤭
Every time I hear about disasters like this and hear about the lack of communication and the fact that everyone thought everything was safe, I just shake my head. It’s always a series of unfortunate events and it makes a huge disaster. May the ones who have passed rest in peace.
A terrible chain reaction, indeed. First the train got derailed and crash into San Bernardino. Then time passed by, a huge fire came along. I feel sorry for those who loss that day.
Omg! This is my hometown! I grew up not too far from where it happened! It freaked me out as a kid and I still have a lingering fear of trains. There area is still pretty vacant, as shown on the map. So cool and crazy you did one from here!
Even though I was in the Navy and serving out of San Diego at the time, this is another disaster that I wasn't aware of. Thank you, FH, for another well done story.
I was living in the San Diego metro and a bit less than 7 years old at the time, and this might be the earliest disaster I actually remember.
I LOVE the way you narrate the stories with your incomparable voice! Thank you for all your uploads! Greetings from Germany^^
Human negligence is lethal to us all
Canjon Pass has seen three runaway train accidents. After this one, in 1994 a Santa Fe container train plowed into the rear of a Union Pacific train after losing its breaks, and then in 1996 another Santa Fe (by this point now the BNSF railway) lost its brakes and also hit a sharp curve and crash. It took awhile for these runaways trains to finally be resolved.
Always tragic hearing about the death of children in particular RIP to them
Yeah, those are the hardest videos to get through.
One small little nitpick.
Steel (or any metal I know) does not 'glow blue'. If heated and cooled preciecely, I believe it was just under 650°C, it discolours to a bright, metallic, enchanted blue. The process is called 'blueing' and protects from rust to a degree. Its quite beautifull.
All else thank you for another great video 😃
I've been watching you for a few years now. This is the first incident you covered that happened in an area where I was born and raised, and still currently live in. I've never heard of this incident, but I do know that the Cajon Pass is a gnarly route. I've driven up and down it many times, and even cars have to be extremely careful not to get too fast going down. I can't imagine the disaster of a heavy train going down at high speed. I always thought the trains going up and down the pass went too slow, but now I know they're just at the right, safe speed.
Thanks for covering this!
one Minor but also major correction, Gas pipe lines in the US only primarily contain either Crude oil or Natural Gas. There are some minor exceptions but those are usually on large private property stretches and not near major transport ways. Gasoline has never been transported by pipe across any stretch of land outside of a oil refinery.
Are you sure? I thought the pipeline was carrying liquid gasoline to Las Vegas. The "Mayday" episode used the term "gas" but showed liquid spraying out in their dramatization. The height of the pass would explain the high pressure on Duffy Street, if the shut-off valves failed. They'd have to wait until the whole pipeline drained out...
@@johnmorriss5308 Positive. plus Dramatization is just that ,made to look good, Now it could of been a pressurized gas that had due to pressure been liquefied but it'd be a Natural gas line 100%. Now Natural Gas can and has been used as an Umbrella term to include Butane, Propane, and Pentane when talking about transporting it but the line was most likely a pressurized Natural gas line.
The steel wheels didn't "glow" blue. The steel was permanently discolored a bluish hue due to the heat from the incident. That is not an indication that they were still hot hours later.
On some machine shop sites, you can see that the metal chips come off the lathe and turn blue a few milliseconds after they fly off (from exposure to the air), and then stay that color. Or some other color, depending on the temps and steel composition
Thing is, though, they were still giving off heat. The NTSB and residents noted this.
Wooo I’m early enough to get the satisfyingly told tales of humanity’s unfortunate histories. Great work mate love your channel. 👌👍
When there's this many failures at once, it's indicative of not just a person, but a company-wide or industry-wide culture that needs to be straightened out.
2:30 - the surprise of a European viewer when he realizes that a tonne and a ton are different things.
American here who is equally surprised😂. Off to Google!
I've known the difference for a long time now, and it still catches me off-guard when I come across "tonnes". That's basically another disaster waiting to happen when some overworked and underpaid worker applies the wrong conversion factor on some heavy load somewhere.
(I am aware that this was not the cause of this particular disaster)
There are three ton(ne)s I know:
Metric ton - 1000kg (2204lbs)
UK tonne (or US long ton) - 2240lbs (1016kg)
US short ton (used in the video) - 2000lbs (907kg)
Now do we get the other two runaway trains in the same pass as follow up episodes? On that note, the mayday call gives me chills every time, doing 90 down a mountain pass going into tight curves, no thanks. Given the brakes were, if I recall right melted and those that werebn't were disconnected by the emergency brake....to me jumping off would not have helped at all. I do wonder what happened to the mineral company though, did they go under before sending out the shipment or?
Also, not sure if it's mentioned at the very end, but a third disaster, at least for the families was the lawyer they used skipped town with all the money and wasn't heard from again, IIRC he just up and vanished into thin air.
We used to drive through that area all the time to visit my grandmother in Hesperia. But I left California in the early 80s and if I ever heard about this I had forgotten. Today when I heard the narrator say “El Cajon pass” it immediately caught my attention. Thank you for a well done and respectful accounting of the accidents. I enjoy your videos very much and always learn something new.
Being a math teacher, I’m so angry that it was a serious math calculation mistake that caused this horrible tragedy! My heart goes out to all the victims and their families. As I tell my students-always triple check your numbers-are they reasonable, logical, and most importantly accurate!
For extra context, this was coming off of the failed Southern Pacific Santa Fe (SPSF) merger (side note: the 2nd engine, SD45R 7551, still wore the “Kodachrome” scheme of the failed merger) and the Southern Pacific being sold to the Denver and Rio Grande Western (D&RGW) hence why half of the wrecked hoppers were Rio Grande 3483 cu. ft. cars.
This disaster was the beginning of the end for Southern Pacific, they were nearly bankrupt when they were bought and merged into competitor Union Pacific in 1996.
Ah, yes, the failed Southern Pacific - Santa Fe merger, irreverently known as "Shouldn't Paint So Fast"!
I'm not the only railfan here
@@robertwilloughby8050 And for the proposed paint scheme known as Kochdome.
@@JCBro-yg8vd Their trains and infrastructure were really bad shape then, right?
Can you make a video about the 1963 Skopje Earthquake? It’s gonna be the 60th anniversary on the 26th soon and the whole moment had a significant cultural impact where I live.
I love how coincidentally, this video and last weeks video about Gloria Ramirez both took place in Southern Californian. As a local, it’s pretty cool seeing stories so close to home, especially since you cover stories all around the world! Great video!
Inland Empire represent!!
Thanks for covering this! you’re the best when it comes to telling these stories & the San Bernardino train disaster has been a lifelong fascination of mine due to all the variables around it. I either suggested this topic or meant to suggest it, my memory doesn’t work the best sometimes lol
wow... i grew up in Hesperia, which is only about 45 minutes away, and i have never heard of this disaster. granted, i've never been to San Bernardino, but i drove through the cajon pass many times growing up as i have family in orange county. when i saw the title, i clicked immediately because i thought maybe something had happened recently that i didn't know about (i moved out of state in 2014, but still have family in the area). as usual, these tragedies were a result of company incompetence, and everyone else suffered the consequences. what company doesn't have up-to-date numbers in their system? ESPECIALLY important ones? unbelievable. it's always frustrating when these events could've been avoided if one detail were different.
Victor Valley areas, eh? We just call it the High Desert. Although, many know Victorville as "Victimville".
Don't forget Hysteria...errr..... Hesperia.....
I think I need to write a train-wreck ballad about this one. Thank you, Fascinating Horror!
There is a lot more behind the story of the pipeline rupture. Mayday / Wonder has a video talking about both accidents.
This incident has a sort of unique place in the history of the Mayday series because it's one of only three episodes where they covered a accident that wasn't a air crash. All three episodes are from fairly early on in the show's history, I think they were experimenting with different content in those days.
That's where i had heard about this before.
Counts for that as there was a radio "Mayday" call. What were the other two non-airplane incidents? I believe in some markets "Mayday" was called "Air Crash Investigation," though that might have been a name applied to the series later on.
@@quillmaurer6563 I think there was a ferry grounding and sinking in the Mediterranean, and possibly a head-on crash in Western Canada between a grain train and a passenger train...
scary to imagine the sort of calm terror he must have been experiencing to describe this as "a slight problem"
Or he was just used to minimizing problems and CYA behavior.
I just want to give a side note kudos on your pronunciation, Mr Fascinating Horror Sir. As a native to Southern California, I have heard plenty of UA-camrs mispronounce many of our location names, and it is refreshing to hear them pronounced well. So thank you!
As another native Southern Californian, I second this!
It's one of several things he does that make this one of my favorite channels. He does his best on each and every video, even right down to proper pronunciations.
Did you know that there was more than one runaway on El Cajon? The one in 1996 wasn't in a residential area, but it was a hazmat catastrophe. Interstate 15, the main road between Southern California and Las Vegas, was completely closed for over 24 hours. The crew died. In 1994 a descending train rear ended a stationary coal train, but no fatalities.
As usual, you distill the story so concisely. Admirable! I was also heartened to hear you pronounce "Cajon" more or less as we do. "Topeka" on the other hand .... 😉
I remember when this happened! I was 16 years old living in Downey California about 70 miles away from the accident. I remember watching it on the news at Grannies house. 🚂 💥
I just stumbled across your channel and I just want to tell you that you do an incredible job telling these stories. You are thorough and manage to answer all the questions we might have while also paying respect to those that have been impacted by these tragic events. Thank you for sharing their stories with so much care and consideration, something I often feel is lacking in similar content. I think there's a lot to be gained from understanding our history. After all--"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." You've made a new subscriber out of me. Keep up the great work.
I actually wrote the script for this specific one, but thank you :)
He does tell great stories, and it's a privilege to be able to write for him and learn from him.
I use this disaster all the time at work as an example where things were wrong but everybody who knew things were wrong also assumed others knew and would deal with it or fix it. And the truth is, nobody knew. Nobody told anyone. Nobody took action, because why should they when the next person would fix it? At work, this manifests as person A making a product but not paying attention to quality because we had a QA person B who would catch and reject any bad work. Meanwhile the QA person, a temp being paid minimum wage, had been told the A workers did perfect work that didn't really need to be checked. It could be trusted. So the net result was everybody assuming someone else would catch any issues, Nobody actually DID and bad stuff shipped out all the time. I have tried in vain for years to explain why this was a bad practice and why relying upon an untrained temp as the last chance to stop it was bad. Nobody cares.
One of the channels with a million subscribers that actually deserves it.
I absolutely love that you've chosen stories that haven't been read to death, I applaud the delivery of the story and all the facts painstakingly gathered to deliver an awesome presentation. Thank you! You have a subscriber for life.
Another great video. I clearly remember this happening, I still lived in L.A. then. The Cajon Pass has been a heavily traveled route for trains, and for long haul truckers and cars on I-15 as long as I can remember. As bad as this double tragedy was, the loss of life was lower than similar accidents over time. I love freight trains, but one wrong move and the disaster could cause even more damage than a plane crash.
It's mind boggling that a table of average weights for minerals was not available to the yard clerk. Especially for materials frequently hauled on the railway.
I once witnessed the aftermath of a train collision near Laramie Wyoming. One freight train going over 60 MPH rear-ended another train stopped on the tracks. The distance the cars were thrown was unbelievable. I swore then never to live within a few hundred yards of a railroad.
I remember the photograph of the huge fire in my local papers, though I didn’t remember the event behind it. I wonder how the mineral company explained away the disconnected phone number, which would have been listed on all paperwork. As always, I enjoy your matter of fact, without embellishments, narration.
There was no internet back then. Paperwork was updated by the company itself. Could have easily been an old sheet with outdated information.
I would like to thank you for covering the train disaster to a wider audience on UA-cam.
I heard of this one before. It was so aggrevating to learn that people were not taken seriously and that the second disaster got to happen
Yeah, I have never been able to fathom why things didn't happen when people said they were smelling gas.
You know, 39 years ago today a man killed 22 people at a McDonald's in San Ysidro, California. I was kinda expecting you to upload a video about that.
The idea of cargo being released without a completed bill of lading is an insane thought to anyone in the industry!! And where was the cargo receipt? Those give weight also.
The entity ordering the shipment of goods generates a bill of lading & presents it to the carrier (SP Trans Co in this case). In the RR world, the RR generates its own internal record called a waybill. The waybill has several different uses, financial, data accumulation, instructions for the train crews (primarily the conductor). Don't think RR back then, or now for that matter, issue a "cargo receipt" to the shipper. The shipper's cc of the BL accepted by the carrier is the "receipt".
@@roberthultman9691 thanks buddy. Sounds like rail is slightly different from oceangoing vessel. I appreciate the info. 🍻
i've lived in san bernardino for most of my life and had never heard of this incident. cajon pass is really steep, even to drive, so i'm unfortunately not surprised that a train derailed going down that path. i am glad that things have been updated enough that another incident like this hasn't happened again- a fire in cajon pass (again) would be a beast to put out. thank you for making this video, always a treat to see you upload.
it was the second order of "trona" placed by the South American Prince, who was building a new palace (he claimed that the concrete produced from mixing cement with trona was way harder than the concrete produced by mixing cement with sand), so he ordered a load (his first order). The loaders pretty much guesstimated how full to fill the rail cars, they ended up shorting the prince, who complained but still ordered a second load, so they made damn sure they didn't short the prince twice, hence the extra heavy load
What a sight it must have been to see a 6150 ton train derailing at 90mph.
Sounds like pure nightmare fuel to me.
Unless you were there, I know a family living a block away from the site, on Darby.
I have to imagine the police officer who saw it happen and called for help. Probably took him a few seconds to grasp that this was in fact actually happening.
That much weight, going that fast. Knowing me if I was anywhere near it I'd go full "deer in headlights"
I wondered what it sounded like. What an awful crashing sound it must've made. Metal screeching, breaking, groaning, crashing. Oh man.
So cool to see familiar areas in this video. I grew up in Cajon Pass, trains are still passing by and they're so cool to look at.
Many people dismiss mathematics as not having real world application. This however is just one of many examples of a simple miscalculation yielding deadly consequences.
...and a touch of physics.
Those people are called NPCs.
I cringe every time I hear someone say that. Everything around us is engineered; math is the language of engineering (and physics).
@@mjmooney6530 Well put! (I was going to say weights and measures and gravity, etc., but I only have a 4 year degree, so I know I don't know lol.) How I got through Trig is a mystery. 😳
@@hushingsilence Common sense is not so common, even among really smart people. I have learned Degrees don’t matter; bias does.
Another excellent production, thankyou. Such a tragic series of events.
So many things going wrong, resulting in such a tragedy. I remembered that there had been a derailment in the pass, but never heard all the details before. That opening shot of the freeway was like a bucket of cold water; I instantly recognized the general area, having driven through it quite a few times over the years. All your videos show tragic events, but they hit a little differently when one is familiar with the location.
Jeez, this one is almost a bingo card of 'name what went wrong'. Good to hear that changes were made in the aftermath, though, instead of sweeping it under the rug as in some cases we've heard. While it seems sensible to over-estimate the weight as in assuming the cars weight their max, I can see why the clerk did as he did. What I don't understand is why, having caught the error in the computer, the second person wouldn't have double checked. Hindsight is 20/20...
Thank you for putting weights and speeds in both metric and imperial -- I appreciate all your work and calm delivery, as always!
El Cajon is beautiful, but I'm always glad to get out of it and into San Bernadino and L.A. The pass makes me nervous.
Coming from a railway family, I really felt the impact of this story. Not putting the weight on the bill of lading is considered a serious sin. It creates problems for everyone, from the yard crews to the train crews to the billing departments - frequently transport is billed by weight. Derailments are an absolute nightmare! I can remember my Dad being called out in the middle of the night numerous times because of derailments, though often they were relatively minor, with only a few cars off the track. But even then, the environmental impacts could be significant. When human lives were lost, those were the worst! Why do people decide to build beside the tracks though? Inevitably, it's a choice, with the tracks having been there first. I don't mean to sound cold - everyone is devastated by these instances! They're hugely tragic!! I've just never understood why anyone would consciously choose to live within feet of a track on which something as heavy and possibly lethal as a train travels, even given that they're mostly safe. Something can always go wrong. And why do people insist on placing items on the tracks? Even something as small as a penny can, under the right circumstances, derail a train and cause a ridiculous amount of damage!
There seem to be a lot of stories of houses being built in a dangerous spot, we always ask why they built there in retrospect. Flood zones are another spot we question. In this case it wasn't just beside the tracks, but on the outside and below an elevated curve, even a minor derailment could have sent cars tumbling onto the houses, I've seen videos of cars tumbling down embankments like that.
When I was younger, the only places that I could afford were next to train tracks. I imagine those who build next to them do so because it is not prime real estate. Greed? Those in low income range have little choice but to rent such places.
@@quillmaurer6563 good point! I tend to question why anyone would want to live beside the tracks from a noise standpoint alone - though you tend to tune it out after a while - but for safety too (I worked next to the tracks for years and later lived in a beautiful apartment that's only drawback was that it was close enough to the tracks to hear the trains, but far enough away for safety). Then again, I've had railway safety drilled into my head for my entire life! (I remember having to cross the tracks to get to school in grade one and being taught what to do if I'm ever caught by a train and can't get to safety. But I'm "mature" and kids probably wouldn't be walking that distance in the conditions we walked it these days! 😹😹😹) I live in an area where the river regularly overflows its banks every spring. I live in the country, well away from the river and on higher ground, but when my son was buying a house, train tracks and flooding were two things we were very conscious of when looking. Flood risk is something that had to be disclosed (if asked) and he turned down some nice homes at low prices to avoid that problem - he didn't even look at them if there was a risk. I don't understand why people knowingly take these risks, then complain when they're evacuated or incur damage - or simply hate the noise! It's like with airports. They seem to think the tracks or airports should be relocated for their convenience!!🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️
@@theladyinblack3055 Thinking of the noise, I personally would take trains over a lot of other noise sources like a freeway, airport, or even the neighbor's lawn mower or incessantly barking dog. Trains come by every once in a while - not sure how often on this line but the "busy" Moffat Sub a couple miles from me only sees a few trains per day these days - make some noise, then go away, peace restored. Those other things are or can be nearly constant. As a small-plane pilot, I see the noise complaint thing a lot, neighborhoods built around a long existing airport and noise complaints follow.
Thinking of the safety side, I think some people aren't aware of the risk, or just do whatever they can afford - can get a better house for less money in that way, they accept the risk for that. Though as Debbieellett pointed out, many don't have any other choice. Next to a railroad is probably not that huge a risk actually, as even while things like this do happen on occasion, and get a lot of attention, the odds of a major train derailment at any given spot within an entire lifetime are probably very small, most neighborhoods next to tracks like this have never had a train crash into them and never will. Well unless the relaxed railway regulations and short-term-profit-chasing cost-cutting railway parent holding companies keep having more crashes like the East Palestine Ohio derailment last February. Flooding on the other hand is one of those things that is almost guaranteed to happen eventually, it's a when rather than if. Or, as a Coloradoan, I see these mountain communities and houses being scorched by forest fires. Then there's entire cities built in areas that repeatedly get pounded by hurricanes. Those things - flooding, wildfires, hurricanes - I see as far more likely, inevitable even, than a train crash in a given spot.
Combining these two factors, I'd gladly take a house beside a railroad over a house near a freeway in New Orleans.
I lived in the high desert at the time of this incident, I remember reading all about it. Again, like the tragedies in previous videos, it takes a tragedy to fix things to save from further tragedies happening in the future, in this case two tragedies. I'm glad you pronounced Cajon nicely, and not say Cajun, as in Cajun fries. lol Going down that pass in the winter with snow was scary. You had to put chains on and drive slowwww.
I know, right? His pronunciation was impressive!
The memorial doesn't include the kids who lost their lives?? Wow.
Didn't the Andrews Sisters used to sing about the Acheson Topeka & Santa Fe railroad? I believe it was a big hit back in the 1940s.
Very well done, FH, thank you. I can't imagine what a living hell this was for the train crew. 90 miles per hour, and you are guaranteed to wreck at the curve. Jumping out is not an option (not really), so all you can do is wait for the inevitable. Horror indeed.
This wouldn’t be the last train crash to occur in Cajon pass
Babe, wake up! Fascinating Horror just posted
Love ur channel! Crazy interesting!!
i can’t help bopping to the intro song like i’m not about to hear about a horrible tragedy 😭
my grandpa was a volunteer firefighter in a small town on the desert side of pass. i remember him telling my mom about how the fire fighting equipment was melting from the heat and how the whole thing was twice "the all around FUBAR (fucked up beyond all repair) show". then my grandma scolding him for saying FUBAR around us kid, even though we had no idea what it ment.
I love this anecdote, friend. : )
I’ve lived in SB for a few years near the 210/215 and never knew about this. Thanks!
So interesting to see you cover the story, since I've currently lived in the area of San Bernardino. When I first learned about this about a year ago, I decided to take a trip over to the neighborhood where it happened. To this day, the lots of the houses that the train derailed and smash through are still completely vacant, and there are still empty Lots nearby from where the fires burned down the homes that originally stood. It's an eerie sight to see. Not even so much as a memorial has been placed, only an empty lot with gouged soil and some trash, even after all these years.
For two disasters to happen within two weeks of each other, it's miraculous that only 6 people lost their lives. As sad as it is that 6 people died, at least the necessary action was taken to prevent another tragedy like this from happening again..RIP to the six victims of this tragedy
Incompetence is deadly and you’ll find it everywhere. So disgusting.
I first found about this disaster (derailment and explosion) after watching a episode of Mayday in Canada which has a season 3 episode about it
Good morning Fascinating Horror and morning 🌄 crew 😁.
Mornin!
Good morning ☀️
May God comfort the families of those who perished. My sincerest condolences.
Last week Riverside, this week San Bernardino. Damn, the Inland Empire can't catch a break.
To be fair that's pretty much the end all be all for the I.E. for this channel I believe.
I remember this being all over the national news. The fact that the shipping company didn’t bother the keep that railroad offices up to date on their contact information is unconscionable, especially when they don’t bother to fill out their paperwork properly. The person responsible had to know that the number of engines was based on load weight and that was absolutely critical information.
For his part, the clerk should have maxed out the estimate and if fees were based on weight, charge them the maximum if they don’t bother to give accurate information. If they didn’t want to be charged for extra weight, they should have accurately weighed their load. At least 6 people died because of this carelessness.
Railways companies making sure to cause maximum damage due to negligence, been this way for over 30 years its crazy
It’s been this way since the inception of the railroad.
I was the publisher of the Fontana Herald News at the time. One of my reporters was on the science when the pipeline exploded and got photos that went world wide. Quite a coup for a little weekly paper!
On the scene not science.
May all the victims rest in peace.
❤
I remember that happening when I was a kid. My mom had a job that required her to drive through that pass everyday and she got stuck on the other side of it twice and this was before there were cell phones so she had a hard time calling us and telling us that she couldn't make it home that night but that she was fine.
eerily similar to an event 89 years prior--the casey jones incident. casey jones avoided disaster by sacrificing himself and entered the american pantheon of unsung heroes. the grateful dead even made a hit song out of it. i know that fascinating horror could make a respectful video of the actual events if he so chose
That theme that plays at the end of the video, It really makes you feel un-easy.😱
Another good one to look into is the 1972 flood of Rapid City, SD.