What if TF2 Had 4 Weapon Slots?
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
- Ever get tired of having to pick between your two favorite weapons? Sad that you have to trade range for consistency or damage for team support? Well, this may be the solution! This is what I believe will happen if every unique weapon type in TF2 was able to be equipped at the same time. Although this means some classes will get 4 total slots, others may get even more depending on how diverse their kit is. Which classes do I think will perform the best and what weapons would be favorable? That's what I want to theorycraft. No experiment this time since there are limits to how TF2 handles weapon slots - implementing it wouldn't be impossible per se but it would take several weeks to a month of work for a developer. If you like the concept, maybe I'll do it eventually, but for now we'll stick with an older style of video :)
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I've sorta missed doing my older style of "what if" video. Fully implementing scenarios into the game is a blast, but those quick 15 minute shower thought videos were always fun to make in their own right. I definitely want to run more live experiments (another one coming in June), but depending on how people like these I may start them back up. Maps take a long while to make after all, so as fun as the escape rooms and troll maps are, these will be easy in-betweeners. - Розваги
![[TF2] The Ultimate MvM Achievement Guide](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RqA9lBM-fck/mqdefault.jpg)
Heavy mains are crying joyful tears and Demo and Soldiers mains are preparing to violate every convention on human rights and war.
Spy mains in the corner seething
Demo for fun, soldier because "he didn't buy tickets for these conventions, he doesn't even know what they're about"
everyone is shaking in their boots seeing engis roll up
@@fernoagent8581building two dispensers alone would be crazy. Infinite ammo/heal/metal
Same
Mann treads, liberty launcher, banner, reserve shooter, market Gardner. Become the trolldier you were always meant to be
eeeehhhhhh
Air Strike better
@@daltongill8677 air strike works shit for trolldier
i sure wish there wasnt a full video disproving this
@@rogerphone4818 rocket jumps
@@daltongill8677 air strike popularity after soundsmith said that is good:📈📈📈
Finally demoman is now Fullman
Proman
"demoman? make way for FULL VERSION MAN!"
@@nameless...................... khhhhhmmmmm.....
Demoman 2
full versionman
releasedman
The "Pyro is worse than spy" hot take hit me like a fucking flashbang
pyro was designed to be worse spy originally. instead of ambushing and getting an instakill, hed just run in, burn everyone, die, then hope that afterburn would finish the job
everything since 2007 has been a bandaid fix, but they never tackled the actual issue, he still has the same weaknesses he had originally, making him shit
Doesn't deserve to even be called a hot take, it's just wrong lmao
yeah, no clue what the fuck he is smoking
pyro is bad, without his good friend soldier letting him borrow his rockets he cant kill anyone
Even ignoring the fact that Comp players have over time considered Pyro better then others give them credit for.
Spy literally can barely exist if there’s just a handful of good players on the opposing team. Pyro on the other hand can still do a fair amount even if the enemy team has a lot of good players.
Plus, an Ubered Pyro is a fucking menace. An Ubered Spy is a waste of an Uber unless everyone else was dead
We need 4 slots for cosmetics, imagine the possibilities
bye bye framerate
traders would go wild
Severs more likely to crash due to object limits getting reached easier since a full server of people with everyone with 4 cosmetics all it would take is like half the server to go demoman and shoot 3 or 4 stickies and boom server crashes due to object limit.
the economy would go completely fucking ballistic
TF2 UA-camrs are screaming right now
What if every weapon was at its strongest state in history? This should be easy to make as a mod
pre-nerf deadringer 😨
Soda Popper with free mini-crits by just running? Oh no.
Or, and just hear me out here:
Every weapon at its *buggiest* state
(Would make the bison a trap weapon alongside rocket landmines, just ask Delfy)
Not only that scout also gets a stun from the sandman and the guillotine crits
@mrstudent9125 @@jonsku6662 Ah the good old hybridknight, where you had insane resistance to blast and fire damage, on top of immunity to afterburn, AND you had a 3 pill killing machine with it's damage boost against EVERYTHING.
Weapon slots in tf2 have always seemed like a strange case to me
On one hand it makes sense that any class could only carry a limited number of weapons
But in the other hand it would be fun to use more than 3
Hey guys Great Blue here, do you ever get collectors anxiety in huge open world RPGs?
DAMN HE BEAT ME TO IT
I love that blue is cursed to have this permanently have someone have “x in tf2 has always seemed like a strange case to me” in his comment s
For the engi , the short circuit and the wrangler could go in a ”Gadget” slot.
go go gadget big (energy) balls
yeah. they're both doohickeys and it would make for a more interesting decision in loadouts
It'd be a good excuse to give him more pistols
I've always thought for the longest time that Heavy should get a 4th weapon slot since his Sandvich pretty much defines him and would be pretty cool to make Shotgun Heavy more viable
He already made a vid on classes with two secondaries and talked ab this
Nice to see your still around
Yea, a lunchbox slot would really help heavy out
i feel like a light shotgun (like the one from tfc) would make it more fair, like having good burst damage as well as a great healing item, it would be really op imo
fundamentally misunderstanding the problem with Heavy if you think this would help or is a healthy change
Heavy having both a shotgun and a lunchbox should be actually implemented
aye
I think it would be cooler if he got a mini gun that was essentially a more powerful shotgun
@@cheezeebutter452fat scouts are holding valve at gunpoint rn
Either that or Ive heard a decent idea of just letting heavy select any regular shotgun as his primary, so he could do 2 shottys or a shotty and a sandwich.
@@cheezeebutter452 Miniguns already are fast, weak autoshotguns.
Saying Pyro is worse then Spy has me flabbergasted. excited for the video on that.
This video in an alternate universe: What if TF4 had 2 weapon slots?
Only Medic keep his secondary slot
I feel like a tf4 should be called Team Fortress: Reborn
@@LowerThePolygons Cool
@@LowerThePolygons"Team Fortress: Re-hired"
An interesting one would be what if TF2 had only two slots, but you could use any two of that class's items
Spy was the TRUE class that got robbed of alternative playstyle weapons 😢. RIP Spy who never got and probably never will get alternative playstyle weapon
The old enforcer was basically an alternate playstyle weapon. However, changing the while undisguised stat to while disguised completely killed its aggressive playstyle. I'd love to see the diamondback reworked to give minicrits on top of having the bonus/drawback of the old enforcer. Then you'd have strong minicrits while playing aggressive, and weak ones while being caught trying to infiltrate.
gunspy watch will come one day (no it wont)
If Spy had different gadgets other than the sapper, this would open up many new playstyles. Instead of having Spy be an anti-Engineer class with a built in counter, the sacrifice of the sapper for a bunch of different gadgets (depending on what those might be) would force Spies to devote their advantages elsewhere at the price of being marginally worse against sentries.
hell, even a slot for pocket guns(pocket pistol, pocket revolver, sawned off shotgun with 3 shots) and utility guns would immediately make Spy much more engaging.
4:53 "Fight me" - aight. Let me give it a shot.
The Spy > Pyro take is one of the worst ones i've seen in a couple of years. Outside of 6s (where you can ARGUE spy's situational role is more rewarding) there's no possible way in God's green earth he's better than pyro. Taking your points:
- "Spy is hard-countered only by pyro". No, spy is hard-countered by anyone in team with a brain. If anyone turns around and see the spy, they call him out, their team spam him out and he's dead. If he does get a kill, he WILL die afterwards nonetheless. Why? Cause he sucks if the enemy is coordinated.
-"Pyro has a bad match-up against nearly everyone"...so does spy? Pyro at the very least has a shotgun, 175hp and airblast - in any DM scenario, he does better than spy. "Oh, but spy shouldn't fight ppl upfront" - so shouldn't pyro. He is best played when glued to another teammate so he can deny enemy damage and contribute with consistent DPS. Yeah, it's boring as shit being a limited support class, but at the very least i am one of the most capable of holding my ground when some cocky soldier wants to get on the point i'm guarding. Would i change the class too? Absolutely (specially his flamethrower), but it does have its merits.
"Dragon's Fury sucks in practice" - Yes. Specially if you compare him to other power classes since that's what the class is "supposed" to become.
Yeah, pyro is really good, even in 6's you can't argue spy is better because pyro is more common and can actually contribute to a fight. Spam from flares and reflects are dangerous, and afterburn is nasty on healing. One good reflect can turn an entire push, and discourage soldiers from shooting at your direction at all. I think people just cling to the fact that pyro can be annoying to fight, and doesn't have great range, but the flare gun is plenty enough, and it's far more annoying to get deleted by an enemy you can't fight or flank.
@@Mixxium I'd say the flare gun could use some improvements. Afterburn only reduces healing if dealt by flamethrowers (unfortunately) and so many things get rid of it it's a bit too unreliable. The 2 second reload makes hitting mid-long range crit flares practically impossible. When you compare it to a pill or a rocket, it's kind of lacking - at least in my opinion. I agree mostly witht the rest you said tho
Pyro on defense is kinda ridiculous even if he is a bit mediocre at offense. The offense need to be offensive to win. Pyro has all the tools to cancel that + he can just camp in a cheeky spot that spy can't usually reach and just fucking obliterate a crowd of enemies. So basically a better spy if you are going for the camping playstyle.
I can't believe Blue actually said Spy is better then Pyro. While Spy doesn't completely suck and good spies can get multiple kills on good players without dying afterwards, a lot of his kit is arguably luck based and takes a lot of skill and gamesense. Pyro can arguably get more consistent results just by going out and killing.
That is quite a beating
"Pyro is worse than Spy"
Sounds like a SKILL ISSUE, Blue
And he even played pyro the most (I think, but he does play him better than others)
@@arikomart7209 He probably thinks that because he has more experience as Pyro, he has the gaunt to say he's worse than Spy of which, anyone with a brain can just prove its wrong. Like no hate all towards Blue, like I love his content but jesus that was an insane take by him
@@elkefransisca3747 well I guess thst makes sense
@@arikomart7209 It does doesn't it? lol
@@elkefransisca3747 Really because last I checked Spy has survivability tools for every situation but Pyro has none not only that but he is trash in every 1v1 situation and WILL lose every 1v2 fight regardless of skill.
Saying pyro is worse than spy may be one of the worst takes I’ve heard in a tf2 UA-cam video, which is really saying something
I mean spy can get to the enemy easier Pyro is only really good at close ranges and he has no way to get close
@@theauragamer6178 so we're just ignoring the Detonator, Thermal Thruster, Powerjack, Dragon's Fury, Flare Gun, Scorch Shot, and the fact unlike Soldier or Heavy the Pyro has no penalties to his base movement speed.
TL;DR, we're just ignoring Pyro as a class, so we can say he's bad.
mhm.
@@TheDoc_K ok so most if not all of them make it easy for someone to shoot at you while you come at them (powerjack) or make it 50 millions years until you can pull out your main weapon and do any damage (thermal thruster)
only reason spy is good because he can go invis and just walk to the enemy with no problem
@@theauragamer6178 first, Spy can not just "go invis and just walk to the enemy", that's asking to die.
second, I don't know what maps you play, but you do know that TF2 has a million corners and walls, right?
you do know every objective has flank routes, right?
that this isn't just a big open battlefield with nothing for cover?
you can just SAY that you don't play TF2, or Pyro, or Spy.
I am Pyro. I would really like to have four slots.
Oh yes you are.
I agree with you my fire summoning friend.
prove it
Hello Pyro from TF2
Hello Pyro from TF2.
Some changes that could be done.
Buffalo steak also allows the use of Shotguns.
Throwables recharge like the Gaspasser.
Also
Sniper: Radom Bullshit Go!
"Throwables recharge like the Gaspasser"
Jarate-Bushwhacka combo would just become terrifying (And probably closer to what the Buffalo Stake should have been)
@@jonsku6662 Jerate get's set to 1200 damage dealt and or wait 2 min.
Heavy: "what are you supposed to be?"
Demoknightman: "The one you see coming."
Trying to claim that pyro can contribute less to his team than spy despite having more support options at his disposal than the fucking medic is absurd to me.
Cry
@@dogeshow2651 Nah bro, it's absurd, I'm laughing.
@@purplehaze2358 Pyro is a useless piece of shit class that dies even to spy in a 1v1
@@dogeshow2651 Uh-huh, alright kid.
@@purplehaze2358 u are the kid though
This is just "Everyone's has no more downsides now"
I thought the video was gonna be more like "What if the 3 slot characters had a 4th where they put the non-stock based items"
Scout for instance would be Primary, Secondary, Other(Throwables/Sodas), Melee
Except for spy, he still sucks
Yeah, i kind of thought it was a lazy video. No real thought as to how 4 slots would actually change things, it was just "okay every class now gets every best in slot item" and a hot take to distract people from that
@@haydengates128 so add another weapon slot for pocket pistols, pocket revolvers, sawned off shotguns and utility guns like the Tranq dart gun.
4:50
Pyro is NOT worse than spy simply based on the fact that bombing soldiers would be twice as hard to stop and no other class can reflect rockets while spy is entirely replaced by sniper
That and the fact that pyro is a lot more viable as a subclass in 6s than spy who is entirely unusable
In pubs i agree that spy is much better than pyro simply because players suck but in comp there's no way pyro is worse
Plus even if going by pubs, a scorch shot phlog pyro is still considered incredibly toxic and can roll lobbies almost the same as a good spy can. Additionally, he points out that pyro is spy's "only" counter but a soldier can pop a spy up into the air, a demoman can kill them in an instant, sniper can quickscope them or just jarate and good luck trying to hit a scout with your revolver. In general spy is a class defined by his weaknesses, whereas pyro just has some bad matchups
"A good player will take out the opposition and escape with some life lost.
A good Spy will get a kill in, two if he's lucky, and die afterwards"
I don't see an argument where Pyro isn't better than Spy and Heavy simply by having more options for versatillity.
@@leithaziz2716pyro absolutely isnt better than heavy
@@leithaziz2716 Heavy's easily in the top 3 classes, but comp having to nerf him by essentially banning him because he's so strong he'll force the entire format to play around him has skewed community perception a bit. Like, they literally admit it, if they allowed the disciplinary action and Gru he'd be run every game and the game would be focused entirely around him.
6s is a whole different game designed to be as fast-paced as possible, intentionally making the specialists as niche as possible as to not slow down the game and make it boring to both watch and spectate, thus it shouldnt be used as a measurement of a class' effectiveness.
pyro is still shit however
Conceptually, agree in saying that Pyro has a deceptively high skill floor. The skill CEILING is very high though. You've seen Anthid, you know what I'm talking about. Some of those newer Mönkey clips are also demonstrative of the point I'm making.
I'm not even arguing that pyro is all that capital-G "Great" in your garden-variety tf2 match. All I'm saying is that "Worst Class in Game" is a little heavy-handed.
The video would make for good clicks though lol
A sniper with virtually no weaknesses is, terrifying. Even tho the soldier and demo would arguably be more broken and useful, at least they aren't able to consistently one shot you in (less of) a blink of an eye
Didn't know this video would turn into a hot take
Yeah shame that take came out horribly burnt
@@appelofdoom8211yeah bro was not only not cooking, he burnt the kitchen down. Never let bro cook again.
Another idea to think about: what if instead of each class getting a weapon slot for each distinct weapon type, they got their current weapon slots, and then an extra one that you can equip literally any weapon for that class into?
For example: Soldier could equip the Rocket Jumper to his 4th to get insane mobility without sacrificing his primary slot's damage output, or take a shotgun and banner for the versatilty you listed here. Engineer could take the Widowmaker for regular shotgun and use the Frontier Justice should his sentry get taken down, or put the Gunslinger in his 4th to make mini sentries while still getting Jag bonuses. Heavy can equip two lunchboxes and still get his Minigun, or take two miniguns for different situations.
both the huntsman and a sniper rifle of your choice, demoknight with boots and grenades or hybridknight with stickies, having both the diamondback and l'etranger would be broken as hell
Or, talk a bit of both from this Video and Your idea. Each classes have 4 slots, but the Secondaries are sorted into a Lethal/Tactical type system. Secondaries like the Mad Milk, Bonk, Manntreads, etc. etc. are put into the Tactical Slot, and Secondaries like the Shotgun, Pistol, Flare Gun (not Scorch Shot or Detonator) get put into Lethal. This would go for every Class except for Engineer, Medic, and Spy since they don't have much variation with secondaries/would be absolutely broken. I find it to be a better system, as you can have support for each class while not bending the balance out of wack
Imagine soldier with buff banner and concheror...
Extra damage + extra health and then equip gunboats and your now a rocket jumping minicrit dealing plus self sustaining soldier. And if you really wanna be a menance you can equip a certain rocket launcher known as the black box. Then you will truley be unkillable.
2 STICKYBOMB LAUNCHERSSSS 28 EXPLOSIONS HAHAHAHAHAHAHA (dies of reloading)
Two Scottish Resistances would get CRAZY, you can trap most of the spots on the map with it
4:52 Ya wilding and out of line with that take 😂. Especially considering how easy it is to counter spy, even the classes he's supposed to "counter" clap him with some common sense, like engy and sniper.
But atleast it's gonna make an interesting video discussion(please do make a video about why you think Pyro us worse class then spy, it's gonna be super interesting to hear your thoughts on it)
Although I'll give you props for acknowledging Engy is hard counter to Pyro, far too many ignore this and pretend as if only scouts complain about Engy and how scouts should just deal with it when engy hard counters both scout and pyro on top of countering all goofy classes like trolldier 😢
"Pyro is worse than Spy".
Now THAT is a hot take. I look forward to a video elaborating on this. Pyro's balance has been a concern as long as I've been in the community, but that's a bold statement to say the least.
It's not even a hot take, it's just objectively wrong. Pyro is hard countered by Engineer and struggles against Scouts and Heavies. Spy is hard countered by anyone with situational awareness. That alone is enough to make Spy worse.
@@cheezkid2689 Airblast isn't some hard counter, in order for it to be useful you need to know not only how to aim rockets for every launcher but time it perfectly in an online game where latency exists. (forget about Direct Hit you basically are praying at that point)
Damage wise you will stalemate with a decent scout where both will die just because one deals in chucks the other over time (This got worse in Jungle Inferno)
You are basically useless against demo due to fire resistance and inconsistent hitbox detection when dealing with sticky traps with the scorch shot
Have fun airblasting medics while Uber (you will die for your team if you do this) but dealing no noticeable damage
You can kill engie away from his nest but you will always die if you meet his nest (hey another new projectile speed to time)
Another Pyro is a winnable match up if you are better
Sniper has Jarate so its essentially an equal match up depending on combo skills
Best you can do against Heavy is hope he is not near a healing sources so you can deal 30-40 flare damage before he hides in a building
@@ISM30037 Pretending like Spy is better than Pyro is a delusional take.
Heavy having a shotgun slot and a lunchbox slot is genuinely the easiest and most reasonable buff to make the class more fun to play.
Remember, the Buffalo steak said it doesnt let you use your minigun, it never said anything about *not using the shotgun.*
Also, isn't Heavy supposed to be the heavy weaponS guy? Not the heavy weapon guy, him having more than multiple guns is extra fitting for him.
No, it specifically says that it locks you to Melee.
I think instead of slots, some throwables and consumables should be a one button option. Like the Shoulder Cannon from Doom or any grenade in any other game. It's not on a slot, but you press a button and WOOSH, it's used.
That's not how tf2 consumables work. How do you throw a sandwich with only one button? How do you kill Scout who can just press button when low on HP?
@@dziewiaty ... is the scout thing a reference to bonk or milk
because in the former case, most taunts are already a single button press, and in the latter, it's ... not like single-button throwables in other games don't have animations with startup and recovery? hell, tf2 already lacks holster animations for all but one weapon, so pulling out the mad milk is already "just press button" relative to the frames of reference that aren't doom eternal
Funnily enough, I believe grenades existed in the original TF that worked as you described.
i like this idea!
Thats basically an OW ability
I was a little dismayed that it wasn't actually 4 slots across the board -- i think that has a lot of good ground to cover. Of course, it is a question of what each slot would then be, but still.
Edit - thinking on it more, it feels like having Primary Weapon, Secondary Weapon, Melee weapon, support tool as the 4 slots would be generally workable across the classes
Deep Rock Galactic moment.
(Also, just to be clear, I agree, but it was funi.)
Agreed. Just giving everyone 2 secondary slots would've been interesting enough, more balanced, and would make for a fun community server if he figured out how to make it work.
Letting every class have 1 of every "type" of weapon is way too much, and also too arbitrary and easy to argue for either side (for instance, I definitely don't think Sniper needs a bow AND a rifle, and I think it's weird he'd make them separate slots but keep, say, Demo's swords or Engie's Short Circuit tied to the melee/pistol slots, respectively).
giving spy the dead ringer as its own slot is decently interesting.
You could dead ringer while invisible if programmed right, leading to things like intentionally taking damage while invisible to get the speed boost, at the cost of making a loud as fuck sound when you decloak.
The Cloak and Dagger.
This does have the problem(?) of never knowing if the Spy is actually dead too, which is either really cool from a tricksy espionage angle or utterly infuriating if you're trying to fight one. It'd need some changes, like increasing the cooldown and maybe even negating the ability to recharge it from ammo pickups
@@mothichorror446 The dead ringer cant be recharged from ammo pickups to begin with
@@GunSpyEnthusiast that's news to me, haven't played the game for a while and I never use Spy to begin with lol
Fun video, but MANN are you sleeping on airblast if you genuinely think pyro is weaker than spy. It hard counters soldier and demo, the most popular classes in casual, and literally half of the team in a 6s game, and is the only ability in the entire game that has any meaningful way to consistently interact with ubers. A pyro can completely negate an uber push with relative ease. Any class with an ability that can counter the most powerful ability in the game can't even be considered for any serious discussion of who the weakest class is.
"what of tf2 had 4 weapon slots?"
It would become Deep Rock galactic, but with friendly (intended) fire instead of mining
Yeah
Honestly gives me a neat idea for a modded gamemode, where everyone spawns with a pickax as their melee (just the model, it would function as a stock melee). Then there would be rock props around the map your team could mine, then take their haul back to their base to exchange for new weapons or permanent buffs. It could function like an RTS mixed with, obviously, an FPS. Maybe you could even spawn minions in the form of robots (or just bots) to send to your enemy's base.
The actual objective could be to destroy your enemy's base (either through using Payload Race maps, or having a prop you need to deal damage to at each base).
@@bugjams that would be SOOOOO AWSOME
Idk classes would have 4 weapons or somethin
Yeah but it's actually an slot for every uinqe weapon (so banners, liquid containers, and boots are their own slot)
idk wtf was blue thinking, you would have 4 slots and not all of this theory crafting nonsense. duh
I think just having 2 secondary slots would be a much better idea. Standardized across the board and more balanced.
@@invschematics the crazier the video better the preformance
Heavy and Medic getting extra slots would be a nice addition. Shotguns aren't *that* useless for Heavy (maybe a Spy catches you running back to the frontlines idk) and Medic being able to use the Overdose for movements speed or the Blutsauger to use as a minor healing item for running away.
Also I say the Short Circuit and the Wrangler should share the same slot. Giving a "utility" slot could help depending on the mode/map.
me beforre watching the video: spy will change literally nothing.
me after watching the video: see? nothing.
but as a pyro main, the idea of not having to choose what I want in my second slot because I already have both the jetpack and the detonator ready available sounds so broken I am actually terrified. oh, and also the gas passer is there, so it's a positive for the gas passer I guess. I mean, at least now it don't handicap you.
Blue, I legit spent a half-hour trying to search where those coordinates are. I ultimately landed on “Reskin Elementary School.” *You made me waste time just for the sake of an in-joke.”*
Clever bastard, and I say that out of respect.
One problem I noticed is that splitting the Banners and Base Jumper makes Soldier have 2 Back Weapons in different slots, thus making the Base Jumper unequipable as you always have a Banner.
So instead of "Banners" and "Passive", it should be "Backpack" and "Boots", with the Base Jumper being grouped with the Banners, while keeping the Gunboats and Mantreads together.
For consistency, this should also apply to Demo, splitting "Passive" into both "Backpack" and "Boots", but it's not neccecary and probably over the top as there's only 1 for each (not counting a reskin). But then again, you did the same for Pyro.
Phlog wipes teams in seconds. Detonator/Scorch Shot by themselves chip away at light classes and Medics. Airblast shuts down mindless projectile spam. Thermal Thruster lets you dive almost anyone you want. Spy is almost always obsoleted by Sniper (for instant picks) or power classes (for destroying Engie nests).
“A shotgun means you lose a lot of range, a flare gun means you lose a lot of consistency, and the Thermal Thruster means you lose a lot of damage”
and the Gas Passer means you lose a lot 😂
Gas Passer means you lose a lot of respect from sweat-fountain MvM players
2 things to note:
1. With the base jumper being a back pack and it’s use button being the space bar, you could argue it would be in the banner slot instead of the shoe slot. This doesn’t mean much for soldier, but it would make demo even more OP by allowing him to negate fall damage and have permanent 200 hp. Combine this with the eyelander and… *Jesus.*
2. There’s a serious case to be made for the gunslinger as, while it’s still a wrench, it’s the only ones of Engi’s items that gives him a new building and changes his fundamental gameplay. Having 25 more hp and a disposable sentry like in MVM would make offensive engineer the bane of everyone’s existence, especially if you also give him his pistol for mid range harassment.
i'd say the case for the gunslinger is same for the direct hit, which gives the soldier a new rocket launcher, the loch 'n load, which gives the demo a new grenade launcher, the enforcer, which gives the spy a new revolver, or the etc. etc. etc.. even if the gunslinger giving you "a new building" is on the surface a lot spicier than equipping a weapon over stock giving you that new weapon ... it's still just kinda replacing stock with a new thing that still fundamentally functions like stock but has distinct traits. neither of the two engie melees that change his buildings do anything more unique than just making the slot double as the loadout slot for alternate buildings
the one major exception is how it's one slot, but there are _two_ building slots that can be swapped out depending on the melee. so there's _something_ to allowing use of both the gunslinger and the eureka effect, but any other wrench and your build menu would look like you were just running the gunslinger solo
i feel like the ranking went from "how much stronger the class would be compared to how it currently is" to "how strong the class would be in this hypothetical scenario" halfway through the video, sure engie wouldn't be the strongest class overall but letting him use both the wrangler and the short circuit at the same time would give him much more than just a decent improvement
Wow, you're telling me that demoman, an already incredibly broken class, is broken with more weapon slots? Shocker.
Pyro being able to run degreaser, flare gun, panic attack, and axtinguisher would just about buff combo pyro back to its 2015 state.
I think you got lazy on spy to be honest, its function is completely different to the other watches to the point that the only similarity is that it lets the spy turn invisible, like how compared to the sniper rifles the huntsman's only likeness is that it can headshot. Having the ability to fake death and turn invisible when you want makes it a million times easier to get behind enemy lines whilst still having an escape tool, you've basically got a DR full time whilst also having the utility of the invis-watch.
Also I don't think the Claidheamh Mòr would actually be the go-to for the 5 slot demo, considering you aren't really hybrid-knighting, you're a full demoknight with all the benefits of the boots, you're basically playing both demoman and knight at the same time with none of the drawbacks, if anything the Claidheamh Mòr might even be the worst sword to use since it doesn't really shine as much when you have the boots. I'd say the half-zatoichi or eyelander would be the go-tos, but pretty much any of the swords would have play other than the persian persuader, the age of the big butterknife would be over since it wouldn't really offer that much benefit for leeching all your primary and secondary ammo.
I would like to mention that the BASE Jumper is in the Primary Weapon slot for Demo meaning that he would have 6 slots
Just an Idea: First, for your "Fixing Spies Bad Weapons" video, the Red Tape Recorder should have a mechanic were it's slower to sap than stock, but the more buildings your sapping the faster it works. So sapping 1 or 2 buildings is slower than stock, 3 is like 10% faster, and 4+ is much faster than stock. It would allow you to deal with large Engie nests.
*LMFAOOOO HE THINKS PYRO IS THE WORST IN THE GAME*
Great video! The fact what it gets completely cut off from 4:52 to 4:55 is bizarre though.
it was very strange, I had an aneurism for exactly 3 seconds there.
>you still can't use the short circuit and pistol at the same time
It's joever.
You said to save it for the next video so I won't go too deep on this but I truly don't understand the Pyro take at all, looking forward to your video on it to try and figure out where you're coming from
I think an engi with access to both the short circuit and the wrangler would be the single most infuriating thing in the entirety of TF2.
"Pyro is weaker than spy"
Meanwhile pyro gets 6 slots for how many ways you can change his role, spy gets the standard 3.
Great Blue youre smarter than this.
even just number crunching alone, Pyro would have an INSANE amount of on-demand variety, while Spy remains completely unchanged.
how on earth doubling one classes resources makes them worse is just... what?!
I think he means in stock tf2, but even there I disagree with the take
@@donaldmacisaac8479 That's my thing too. Even in base tf2 of 2024, Pyro way way stronger.
Soldiers who equip Rocket Jumper, Righteous Bison, Buff Banner, Mantreads, and Market Gardener:
Ultimeme
Ultrameme
One thing you didn't consider when giving Pyro both the Shotgun and the Flare gun and Jetpack is that in a good hand, you would just be like playing Doom.
A decently good Pyro could just jump in flame and then flare then shotgun and it would instantly deal more then a light class health and instantly kill them.
Love this video format. Keep it up Blue! We all love your content.
how about, hear me out, soldier with direct hit, buff banner and batalions backup.
wach the video
why not do AIRSTRIKE, GUNBOATS, STOCK SHOTGUN BATTALIONS AND MARKET GARDNER
@@artifactU^
@@magnum78923 ?
Conch is way more valuable because of how quickly it fills, and consequently how much more often you get to use it compared to other 2 banners
Some of these seem like they'd be more streamlined if it were kept to Primary, secondary weapon/gun, Utility item, melee
Like for Soldier got a rocket launcher, a shotgun, then your pick of boots or backpack
Demo keeping similar where both launcher and stickies, then utility of a shield or boots then melee
Engie Primary shotguns, Pistols, Utility (Wrangler/short circuit (The short Circuit is more of a utility item to sacrifice resources to protect your buildings or yourself/team like a disposable mini building tbh ) ) then melee and the pdas.
Sniper is over bloated should have just Rifle/bow, smg, Utility (Jarate or backpacks) then melee.
having access to every category at once seems a bit too much and overly complicated. Or heck just go bonkers crazy and make weapon loadouts be like cosmetics pick any 3, wanna go Sticky jumper, beggars and a shotgun? Be kooky with no melee to fall back on but it'd be something weird like a pick your own randomizer
Heavy: Shotgun and Sandvich
Soldier: Gunboats and Painis
Spy: Literally no change
One small thing that gets ignored with the syringe guns is that if you know how to use the arc right you can shower engie nests in needles at such a pace that by the time the engineers realize what's happening, though you can in general use it for a lot of things in terms of making a cloud of moderate damage on enemies who don't have line of sight to you, that's the most consistent one. Of course, it's niche and demands a lot of practice and understanding of the projectile physics before it becomes particularly useful, so of course no one is gonna learn the neat but niche needle gun party trick when they could learn the much more useful and consistent "just use the crossbow as intended" trick. I think similar to Heavy's shotguns we might see a lot of new usage cases come up simply by eliminating the opportunity cost of running the much more relevant and on-meta items.
Also I think Engineer should've gotten his two "Rifles" split into their own category. Even if they have the same loading/firing mechanic the single projectiles feel very fundamentally different to the shotguns, and considering it means being able to use the Rescue Ranger + a weapon that threatens at mid/close range that can matter a ton. I'd say considering the previous point on opportunity cost the Pomson even becomes situationally useful (not by any means good but better than useless) on tighter indoors maps or situations where you have to fight more spies if you don't need to give up a shotgun for it.
I think the two that absolutely would benefit the most from this is heavy and ESPECIALLY pyro.
That would be super busted. Fighting a soldier that can rocket jump a bunch, buff him and his team, and have an anti pyro tool is insane.
If I mained Scout under these conditions, I’d use
- Scatter Gun
- Stock Pistol
- Crit a Cola
- Mad Milk
- Holy Mackerel
Actually with a food slot I could see the panic attack or family business become very good options for heavy , especially if your main weapon is say something like the brass beast you have a damage now option without giving up your healing or team support
The mad milk and jarate combo would be insanely annoying to be the target of
Extra slots in tf2 have always seemed like a strange case to me
When it comes to hypothetically giving Heavy an extra slot, in my opinion the usefulness of the shotgun isn't from switching to it being faster than revving up, but from not slowing your move speed and still being able to fight outside of melee range. Sometimes you can't really rev up the minigun and do damage without dying because you're a sitting duck, but with the shotgun you can actually move around and either run away, dodge, or just jump on something.
As someone who plays a lot of unironic shotgun heavy (not fatscout although that's also fun) I suggest you give it a try, the shotgun really lets you be more versatile in a fight, because sometimes you just need that 70% move speed or whatever heavy has.
I think you underestimate how important the choice between the overdose and the crossbow is, as running them both with the quick-fix would make you a fast healer at all ranges and be extremely fast because your über recharges fast.
I'm so glad im on a shift where my boss allows me to be on my phone so I can see this immediately :3
I feel like I have seen you multiple times
I really like these "what if" videos. It's super fun to think about how it would impact the whole game, well... for most classes. I have to say tho, I thought of something else reading your title, tbh. Still a great video.
Yo! I really wanted to talk about this in a video too, but never thought of a proper way to introduce this and even discuss. It seemed impossible to objectively rate how each class would do. I think you nailed it very well! So great job, Blue!
I would totally play a 60 player custom server with this mod on it, this would be absolutely SICK to play!!! 🔥🔥🔥
This honestly feels like what you would get if you ported the mercs into Overwatch or Paladins - each non-gun being it’s own “ability” so to speak.
Though obviously the POINT is to break the game's balance, part of me thinks a fourth "Utility Slot" could be neat for the majority of the classes without being unbalanced.
Soldier throwing the Boots, Banners, and Base Jumper into the utility so you can choose between mobility or party support
Scout choosing between his drinks or throwables for more damage or sustain in 2 different forms. and maybe having the Cleaver still take the Secondary slot as a damaging secondary weapon.
Pyro choosing between Gas Passer and Jetpack (though gas passer is kinda just bad so it's just a jetpack slot) While keeping Flareguns as a Secondary option since it's a Damage option
Heavy would ADORE the option to use a lunchbox and would be the perfect change.
Demo getting a unique Shield Slot to add onto their abilities. Granted admittedly though it would still break the game.
Engineer is awkward since yea it'd fall down to basically that, though we could say that his PDA's cover utility anyway.
Medic: Medic is weird since.... I really like your idea, though my particular paradigm of "Utility" kinda falls apart under this definition, seeing as I defined "utility" as primarily non-damaging (or not directly damaging).
Sniper would choose between the Backpacks and Jarate, and the Bow would count under Primaries.
Spy wouldn't really change at all.
I like the concept, I look forward to a testing video in the future
Hey, great video!! I've thought and complained about this 3-slot limitation oh so many times!!
i know you said to hold the pyro takes for the pyro video but i cant help myself. so like. giving airblast self knockback force-a-nature style could solve a lot of pyro's current problems.
it would help close the gap on mid-range enemies like heavy and demo, while also being a nice getaway/general movement option.
I have long awaited this video, and pondered this question even longer. That being said, a very aggressive pyro loadout of the Dragon's fury, scorchshot, panic attack and backscratcher would go hard i think
Idea for new gamemode, that includes this concept:
Mercenaries vs Army (I couldn't come up with better name at the moment)!
9 Black/Brown/Purple/Gray (haven't decided on the color yet) team Mercs *(each member is one separate class)* with all the slots mentioned here + MvM revival box and ability to purchase MvM upgrades for money dropped from dead enemies vs either standart or 32 player count (may even depend on objective) regular classes as an army. Objective could either be any other objective from all other gamemodes (except Saxton mode, because it would be Saxton vs 9 Mercs) or their combination, as I didn't came up with unique objective for this gamemode.
I'd love to see a followup to this theorycrafting an extra weapon slot for every class that acts as a 'free space' of sorts, where any weapon (or maybe any non-primary) could be equipped
Weapon slots in TF2 have always been a strange case to me
scout with force of nature kritacola and any pistol would be insane, thae krit FON combo would deal insane damage and if that doesnt kill the enamy and knockbacks them too far away for a second shot you can just pistol down whatever little health they have left over
the title saying 4 weapon slots while the video only showing one class with said number (unless you ignore pdas) is the most great blue thing ever
So an Engiener could have a Rescue Ranger, Wrangler, Short Circuit and the Jag at the same time. Fun.
Full Demoknights who can still use Loch n Load is also a disgusting thought.
8:23 I wanna add something to this matter:
Yes, you may be right, that it wont 100% fix all of Heavy's problems, but him having 4TH SLOTS is still a major buff, let me explain:
Imagine youre playing a stock Heavy, with a Minigun and a Shotgun. Youre role is too deal damage to a group of enemies, while having some type of support from YOURE team, Medic's, Engi's and health packs aswell. The Minigun is great at dealing damages to multiple targets once youre reveed up! But what do you do, when youre in a 1v1 fight position (lets say with a Scout, or Soldier or a Pyro), away from youre team and away from youre health packs (and other type of healing sources) ? a Shotgun of course! since its a good close range weapon that doesnt have to be reveed up! It all sounds great... Untill youre left with low health, and no mobility whatsoever. If you remember that Heavy's "Massive Health Pool" is his only type of survivability (at least thats what TF2 WIKI says about classes survivability, i cant find where specifically, but found out about that in a video called "TF2 - THE HEAVY DESERVES A FOURTH SLOT" by PO10TIAL), and when you dont have a Sandwich on you, nor a Medic or a health kit (like weve established before), with such slow movement speed... its basically over for you.
But then, you decide to equip the Sandwich, problem solved with health issues! right ? weeell... you forgot that now you dont have a Shotgun. Wich basically makes it impossible to defend youself alone with a 1 specific enemy (scout, soldier, ect). Before you get a change to rev youre minigun you might aswell be dead. (At least most of the time).
And then youre only option is to choose THE TOMISLAV, wich is good at 1 specific type of enemy, with his faster spin up time and no barrel spin sound! that will surelly fix the problem- ohhhh... Right... Noooow youre not as efficient with a GROUP of ENEMIES. Youre basically good at dealing damage to a 1 specific type of class, aaand you get to heal yourself with youre sandwich... BUT because of that slower firing speed, and of its thinner spread range (yes, it actually has a thinner range than a normal minigun has, it is shown in "Weapon Demonstration: Tomislav" video by OfficialTF2Wiki) you'll be less effective against well... a huge group of enemies.
thats a problem im sure most Heavys have.
You cant be effective at a GROUP OF ENEMIES, a 1 SPECIFIC TYPE OF ENEMY (wich i mean a 1v1 fight of course), and HAVE YOURE SANDWICH AT THE SAME TIME.
but AFTER heavy gets that 4TH SLOT, everything changes!
NOW you'll be able to deal damage at group of enemies with youre Minigun, have youre massive health thanks to the Sandwich (or Second Banana), AND you can be effective in a 1v1 situation alone with youre Shotgun! you see my point here now?
these kinds of videos are always so interesting, though one that i'd perhaps like to see would be 'what weapon/item type(s) could you give/adapt to a different class that would most create a new distinct playstyle for them', like if heavy could maybe equip demo's shields, or medic could build dispensers?
Imagine a fully powered Eyelander Demoknight with the capabilities of a full Demoman. That is terrifying.
I really like this concept! Just yesterday I was thinking "wow, spy sure does have a lot of loadout slots. I wonder what it'll be like if everyone had the same amount." Please consider making a test server of it.
I think part of the joy of the lunchbox slot is the idea of heavy getting some more variety to his gameplay style in the form of potential lunchbox and shotguns that can work in tandem with each other, one dxample being the idea of minicrits being granted to the shotgun through the steak sandvich. I do agree that heavy's problems would not be entirely resolved by this of course. It is also worth noting the other major point of heavy's main benefit (his health) sort of requiring a sandvich in order to be useful in a vacuum, as without a medic/enough healthpacks the 300 health goes down really easily and then you're worse off than most classes.
a demoman fused with a demoknight sounds like a complete nightmare
Fr. I feel individually he would be way more powerful than soldier since his tankiness with boots and shield with the sticky and grenade launcher which are already ultra strong makes him a literal tank. Throw some eyelander heads in it and he literally becomes god himself
if nothing else, detonate and charge are both universal alt-fires, so that's a bit of _major_ wrinkle that an aspiring demoknightman would have to constantly navigate around
@@hi-i-am-atan randomizers have already tackled that problem. if the right click is already occupied, the charge is done with clicking the mouse wheel instead
First thing I thought of when talking about Soldier, was an airstrike build
The Airstrike
Stock Shotty
Buff Banner
B.A.S.E Jumper
Market Gardener
Would shit myself if I heard Buff Banner activate and see eight mini-crockets flying at me ong
11:56 "...bows, which would just be the huntsman...," So would the compound bow be still in the sniper rifle section?
Reskins have always been a strange case to me
@@undvined I thought it was a separate weapon, now I feel dumb.
Loose Cannon, Tide Turner, Sticky Jumper
Oh god the rollout opportunities
One of the big draws of TF2 is the weapon system
Can't wait for "What if every class could equip all their weapons at once"
I like how this just elevated the current power scaling. everybody here is in the same order (I think) just the baseline got raised
A while ago I've written up a small excel and word document for a multi-player fps class-based game featuring 9 immutable classes not to similar to the classes in tf2 and as such it was kind of a strange 3 way between TF2, Overwatch and Quake. The premise was built upon another game that was a single-player fps where you escaped an underground facility (not to dissimilar to black mesa) where after beating a boss you can mutate an ability - these abilities ranged from being able to charge a kick up that could punt an enemy across the room to turning your skin translucent and becoming invisible to "Tarzan swinging across the map with one of your ribs attached to a flesh rope"
Anyway
I've built upon a 4 basic actions system with a Primary, Secondary, Tertiary and Quaternary
Primary: Your big guns
Secondary: Your small guns
Tertiary: Your melee
Quaternary: Your consumable
The 4th slot would usually be a choice between a small medkit (Medium if you were medic) that healed equivalent to its tf2 counterparts & a class unique "stimpack" that would empower your current class' abilities but at a cost:
Scout: Run & climb on walls but take more damage from all sources
Soldier: Take less damage from your own rocket jumps & have better air control but take 2x more damage when airborn
Pyro: Become completely immune to fire damage at the cost of water dealing damage to you
Demoman: (Same as soldier)
Heavy: Rapidly heal health but you're more prone to knockback
Engineer: Regenerate metal & repair buildings faster but you loose 3 health per second (min health is 10% max health)
Medic: Heal people around you but loose 3 health per second (minimum is same as engineer)
Sniper: Reload, fire & charge faster but your vision becomes borderline psychedelic
Spy: Have infinite invisibility and slightly increased speed (slightly less than scout no specific number)
The idea was that you'd choose between being able to heal yourself (individuality) and having the opportunity to perform better at an increased risk of dying
(Grenades was also in the original idea but I've scrapped them as a 4th item option because they were hard to balance cause they were either really bad or really annoying and I didn't want to deal with that)
I've pretty much shelved the project now and it never really evolved to the point that I've made concept art of it
I've done this because I usually write down random game ideas that I like down regardless of if they are actually good or not and often I just stash them away for when I come to a time that I want to work on it again but another reason was that I was already working on another project that (at the time of writing this) I am still working on and is far easier to balance & feels more fun
throwing the parachute into soldiers backpack slot lets you run airstrike, parachute, and gunboats.
83 views in 2 minutes, Great Blue reskins have always been a strange case to me
Jarate + SMG is absolutely an overlooked combo there for sniper. I don't think it's enough to push him above demo but holy moly that would be so much fun to use.