Yes, Wib. Yes. _You must buy more models you do not need._ This was amazing and great. Really innovative and fun spin on the series and you should absolutely do more now and again. The research you put into this does not go unappreciated.
I sometimes think that GW head office records don't know the difference between when the model was SCULPTED, CAST or MANUFACTURED. which is why you consistently see three different dates for things.
I actually played my first Warhammer 40k game just last week using random models from dnd sets. Our local game store just got some Warhammer stuff and apparently I was the first to take interest sadly I can't purchase any
Is there anything more against the spirit of the hobby (wargaming and miniature building) than the puritanical insanity of GW's model policy? We need more shop managers like the one you mentioned.
@@benwaddi Eh, they are trying to sell a specific line of models, to come in not by any and then sit around advertising the competition is a bit unfair. It's a bit like going to your local cafe and eating the Big Mac you bought next door.
@@poshboy4749 There have been managers that have barred people for using one model from a competitor, they also have that rule about models being a certain % of GW parts despite - up until recently - GW not having models for everything. That is what I am talking about, not someone plonking a bunch of Mantic stuff down and demanding to play 40k with proxies, that is just rude and obnoxious. I do wonder how Warhammer Ancients was supposed to be played in stores when GW stopped making models for it soon after release, and Warmaster Ancients where they never supported it with models. Managers back in the 2000s were just as strict but I guess the games were rare enough it rarely cropped up. (Oddly enough I just googled Warhammer Ancients models and Warlord Games' website comes up with them selling army packs for the second edition release back in 2010)
@@randelclawson7695 I have an VERY old white dwarf magazine who's last page has a painting of a rogue trader style marine with an stylized M for the chapter icon and underneath the figure was a symbol for Tzeentch so M=1000 as in thousand sons...
I had no idea Jes Goodwin has been in GW for so long. To think that one of the original designers is still active and plays a big role in todays designs is both refreshing and hopeful.
Hi, I would like to report a problem with the video at timestamp 7:40. You imply that new Mk7 armor looks better than RT era Beakies. Clearly a mistake, I await your retraction.
The first taccy was released in 1998. I was working for GW in 97-09. As a point of interest, the big statue at WHW (used to stand out the front) was not blown up from the same static marine but sculpted. The bolts in the magazine were made from pot noodle pots. I remember the full timers meeting at WHW (or the large gym hall as it was then) and they told us all about the brand spanking new head office that finally moved manufacturing, mail order (from Eastwood a few miles away) and the studio (from Castle Boulevard down the road) to the same campus. Working at WHW was awesome for the things you saw. Thanks for the memories.
I remember WHW in the 90s, when the shop was downstairs with all the mail order catalogues in the middle. I still miss the fact you used to be able to buy any individual part from any model you wanted... It was amazing for conversions.
Chris Dawkins that’s exactly what I remember. The thing was as a member of staff you brought models by weight. It was £20 a Kg for both plastics and metal. If you visited WHW (not what it was called as at the time it was just HQ) you could go to the picking floor and pick your own stuff. Rack upon rack of little trays of minis. You couldn’t empty a tray but when someone wanted a lot of something you take the tray empty the models into your picking box, put one back and move on. A friend of mine brought a 3000 point halfling army for £50. The only model you couldn’t buy by weight was the metal Thunderhawk were you only got a pitiful 50% off 😉. When I worked at WHW in 03/04 people could still order bits. This was sent down to the picking floor directly below the store. We then had to collect the orders through a hatch by the front entrance. Awesome times that GW won’t go back to as the company’s focus has shifted.
Really well made video. I love how you used the research into the usability of the Space Crusade models, on the tabletop. As an excuse to go to Warhammer World.
Marine sizes are weird. So Space Marines were not true scale compared to normal humans like Guardsmen, then we got Primaris who were the correct size for normal marines, but are supposed to be bigger than original space marines meaning thechnically they should be even bigger, then we got the new Chaos Marines that are Primaris sized but aren't primaris, meaning that they're now true scale, but actually the same size as the marines that are supposed to be bigger than them! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ GW WHY?! YOU'RE GIVING ME AN OCD ATTACK!
Don't think about the scale too much, you'll give your self a brain aneurysm, serfice to say the mini's are sized to what looks good and is practical to use, a full size marine wouldn't look anything like the mini, it'd be anatomically impossible.
@@eduardobalieiro862 You are correct, the scale is technically primaris are a noticeable bit taller than CSM. I'd assume if you compared the new CSM to the blindbox marines they've been pumping out, it'd be comparable.
My theory is that while the size difference (as well as prowess in battle) of primaris vs firstborn was heavily emphasized in their initial release, that was mostly to give a lore justification for doing more than just redesigning the models. Yes they could have just gone “marines are truescale now” and we all would have been happy, but instead they are updating the entire marine faction. So with each successive codex, we’ll see less emphasis on the exact differences between primaris and firstborn, it’ll just be what gear they have and how do they fight. Putting aside the lore arguments over them, (I have no issues with primaris myself) I feel its been worth the crazy trip to get the models we have today. Especially with models like the Bladeguard veterans. Now we just need to get that kind of model updates across every faction.
This was cool, I always love seeing old figures. And seeing the original Space Marine next to an Aggressor is hilarious. Also, now I need a squad of old school Beakies as veterans.
I had myself a veteran squad purely of old metal figures. Looks very silly beside the new Sternguard. Also put beaky helmet on 50% of my assault troops.
I recall that the 'M' on the LE2 model relates to the squad markings in Rogue Trader, that small disc on a marines pad indicated the weapon speciality/loadout of that individual marine, so possibly 'Melta' in this case. I don't have my copy of rogue trader to hand, so I can't double check, but it was on the colour pages alongside the rank markings.
0:39 it makes sense because, and I quote “nobody wanted to buy anything that didn’t look like starship troopers, or the offspring of a piss drinking survivalist and a speech impaired boxer.” Thanks Emps.
11:54 Well, dang. I lucked into a mix of the 1993 plastics and Space Crusade marines, including two Marines with Assault Cannons...and those weird Soviet looking missile launchers. Stripped them and happily repainted them. I got ahold of so many in fact, I painted a few of them as a squad for my friends Raven Guard and gave them to him...
The M on the shoulder is the Latin numeral for 1000, because these are (retroactively) from the Thousand Sons chapter. That's right, the Thousand Sons are the original Space Marine.
Two things- The painting is phenomenal The temptation to take the Warhammer World Rhino is too strong. Even if it has no motor, stick one in it, go Orky on its ass and take a Sunday Cruise
Nottingham here too, it absolutely has an engine and until it was moved to it's current location staff occasionally took it around the carpark for a joyride (I myself being one of the lucky few none-GW staff to have been in it). It's noisy as hell and spouts a phenomenal amount of exhaust fumes. Previously it was in Blood Raven livery for the Dawn of War game marketing (where you can also find videos of it driving around fields on UA-cam)... As to S&Ws visit to warhammer world - they must have gone on a weekend or when busy. I go down most Tuesdays (until the recent lockdown) and have literally handed over 3D printed models and minis to staff who've then gone off to show it to their mates before letting me play on the tables. The general rule seems to be that if it's quiet and there's no legal team around the staff do not really care if you ask politely and don't take the piss by doing something that would get the staff in trouble :)
For reference, White Dwarf 129 (September 1990) featured the first appearance of MkVII armour in 'Eavy Metal (p.29). These MkVIIs were only available in Blisters of three models and differed slightly from later models in that the metal bodies were seperated at the waist, allowing a little more variety in posing and better interaction with the RTB01 plastics - these blisters seem not to have been around for long though. White Dwarf 130 (October 1990) featured (inside back cover) the first advert for the new Space Marine Strike Force - the boxed set containing 15 metal MkVIIs with plastic Arms/Backpacks - it is a model from this set which you showed.
I've never played Space Crusade, but after all these years, that kid in the advert saying "Dreadnaught!" is still etched in my memory. Almost as strongly as the one saying "Browd sord!" from the Hero Quest advert.
The 3rd edition model is when bolters started looking bizarre though. They don't make any sense anymore. The magazine curves at the bottom, but goes into a straight magazine well, the charging handle and ejector port are located well above the barrel where it doesn't make any sense and are simply too small to eject a bolter sized shell casing. Now you might argue that bolters don't eject shell casings, but there is plenty of official art where they do. There seems to be general confusion as to whether the bolter is a short barreled 40mm autocannon with rocket assisted projectiles, or simply an oversized submachine gun. You can see this in video games of the era a lot where many iterations have bolter magazines come in at 15 bullets only and have the weapon fire single shots.
The thrilled look on Snipe's face in the still image means if it weren't already a bucket list priority to grab a copy of Space Crusade, it certainly is now!
14:50 "one thing that we really wish was still around from the old days"... SQUATS! Oh, not where you were going with that. One big advantage of old models being small, though, is that since 40k is going for 'true' LoS, they're easier to get behind cover when you need to.
This made my day. Over the years I've developed an affinity for the early gw models. And I agree, putting the designers name next to the kit they designed would be awesome. I always feel bad doing converting projects because of the work thar went into design.
I have stupid tones of this stuff, it was passed down and now its at me I have 30 or so of the first impirial marines, oyu know the ones that squat, and about 10 of the ones that came after, couples with 20 of the original terminator squad and a original rhino and I think my haul is truly massive!
Props for having them all painted, I appreciated having that shot of all the kinds of models side by side with the same colour scheme at the end! Good shit!
I unknowingly bought a box of 93 space marines in their original box for $15 I should've realized they were old though because right next to them was a box of Orks labeled as Space Orks
I just discovered your channel I don't know how to explain how awesome I found your videos. They're amazingly edited, the exposition is so good, clear and funny (seriously how much did it take to find all the information you explain???) and your models do look really well. It's just I cannot imagine the effort you had to put into it, and I really like the rigor and the genuine passion with which you talk. I foresee a great future for this channel. Keep it up!
Great, great video. Loved it. I am restoring and magnetizing my copy of Space Crusade at the moment. Also the plastic beaky box was the fire GW set I ever owned. I believe around 1991.
Hey there- really enjoy your videos, and subscribed. Your “Codex Compliant” series is so good. I wanted to point out something that I had only previously noticed in one of my old (like, 1989 and me in High School old) issues of White Dwarf. In this video, starting at 5:18, the Marines shown on the order form featuring “Brother A Skull” and the wonderfully Pythonesque “Ex Brother Marine”- take note of the Marine who is the first one in the center row. His name is “Communication Officer Orinoco”, and in my magazine he’s just listed as “Marine with Scanner”- but if you look carefully, specifically his pose, the flipped open scanner screen and keypad on his left forearm vambrace armour that he’s typing on with his right hand, and his helmet that is oddly elongated in the back with discs on the rear section, he’s a rather unique looking fella. Now look at Forge World’s Horus Heresy range model for the Space Marine “Master of the Signal”- he comes as a set with the Legion Champion model- it’s Communication Officer Orinoco. With every single one of those features that I mentioned- it’s the same model. Except it’s resin, of course, and not metal. (And instead of 3 Space Marines for £2.50, it’s 2 for £32.) I ran across the magazine ad by chance one day a few months ago, and I had just built and painted the Master of the Signal perhaps two days prior to that, so every detail was etched in my mind. I just thought it was cool to see him again, and knowing that they hadn’t changed him one bit made it a fun discovery. Sorry for such a long message, just thought you’d find it interesting, much as I did. Keep up the great work. Edit: I’m returning to this video a year later, and realized that I made a slight error in my comment (well, two, if me thinking that anyone would actually read it can be considered an error)- the “Master of The Signal” model and the “Marine with Scanner” model have one slight difference than “Orinoco” here. The front of both of their helmets are MKIV, while the front of Orinoco’s is a beaky MKVI. The backs of all three helmets have the same elongated and disc-capped design, but the faces differ slightly. I don’t know why I didn’t notice it before, nor do I think anyone will find it interesting, either- but there you go.
I bought a metal 1994 (I think) Space Wolves Standard Bearer that was unopened and still had his plastic backpack and seperate arm He's really small next to my Aggressors
What a great little light hearted video. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Also loved how you painted them up. My first marine box was a Salamanders tactical squad from the 3rd war for Armageddon and I didn't have any super glue so I couldn't glue on the metal plasma gun or multi melta.
You two are dope. Fun video and I collected these from the beginning however now I feel SUPER OLD. Thanks a lot!!! There was a set you forgot to mention called Space Marine Strike Force which ushered in the 1st metal/plastic arm Marines (Mk 8) The very first ones actually had “nubs on the bodies and socket joints in the plastic arm pieces” similar to the Plastic beakies that allowed for more pose ability but then for some reason they ended up sheering off the nubs and made the arm pieces flush. Regardless of my nerdy knowledge of citadel miniatures, this was a super fun video
To answer your questions, the LE2 ISM, was sculpted and the mold created, in 1984. The model was available for purchase in 1985. The model was taken "off the shelf" in 1986. The different dates, is different publishers choosing different points of "production." Just as the US ordinance department couldn't decide what the T28/T95 was. T28 heavy tank, T95 SPG, or T28 Super heavy...
You are missing the MK7 space marine strike force minis which came as two metal parts, torso and legs, released during rogue trader. The plastics in the box of six you showed was 2nd ed era. Nice trip down memory lane though :)
For some reason this video randomly appeared on my Recommendation feed (I'm guessing because Bruva commented, and I've been binging his channel recently), but this is great. The recommendation feed is finally showing me something I want to see, and not reactionary trash. Omnissiah be praised! This video was great, and made me nostalgic for when I was a wean, and I first dragged my dad into a Games Workshop in 2001. I still have an old catalogue, and it is a TRIP to see how cludged the old models look compared to now.
Please you guys make more of these! More videos in general! You guys rock and I totally hope you get more recognition for the amazing work you guys put out 😇🙏🏻
Every time I see the two photos of Snipe being enthusiastic about Space Crusade, I can't help but giggle, especially the second photo. Beautiful work. XD
My first marines were those 1993 mono pose. I eventually an entire company of my homebrew chapter (150+ models with vehicles) 4-5 of that original box of 10 are still intact among the company.
I have recently discovered your UA-cam channel and binged on all of it. While at work. Causing me to be sacked. Thank you... Keep up the good work! Seriously, great stuff here!
This was a BRILLIANT video on a subject that I really love. In fact, I was hoping someone would give an edition by edition breakdown of the evolution of Space Marine sculpts. Space Crusade was my introduction to the Warhammer 40K world. Now a ton of great memories are flooding back to me. I really enjoy your videos. Keep them coming!
Pretty great work there! Maybe someone should tell Hasbro to stop just sitting on the rights of Space Crusade and maybe do a collab with Games Workshop for a remake... ( and yes; after reasearch, Hasbro are the one who have the rights for Space Crusade now... ) Will be a way better Kid version of Warhammer 40k that... whatever Warhammer Adventures is...
@@youdontneedtoseehisidentif4939 I got Space Crusade for about £60. Buy an incomplete one, then source the missing pieces on ebay. You can end up with a near mint set for £50-£70 less than ebay sellers want for a mint game.
I’ve been getting back into the hobby after about 15 years. I started playing around 1990 during Rouge Trader and still have a few mini from that time. Were the models great? No. But there was something pure about them that still makes me smile.
Loved it . First time viewer. I started with Rogue Trader and have tons of those old models including old Robots or "Men of Iron" as they are referred to these days.
Really enjoyed the video. I felt that the production of it has improved and it really shows. I quite like the cut a-ways and close ups of Wib's face...I need more.
I think part of the reason for the smaller early Space Marines is that they hadn't completely established just how much they had been altered from regular humans. Heck, in the beginning they only had a toughness of 3. It wasn't until they boosted that up to 4 and really got into the lore of just what a Space Marine was that the models took their first leap up in size.
Here where I am in Australia during the early 90s, it was next to impossible to get GW miniatures unless you paid the big bucks to have them shipped directly from the UK. A small gaming shop opened up in the CBD and started selling the First Edition rulebook, which I grabbed, and second hand metal models and plastic box sets. My first buys were a Space Marine plastic army (20 standard beakie marines, no special characters), a Rhino (which I immediately converted into a Whirlwind per the White Dwarf instructions), a metal Doredeo Class Dreadnaught and a handful of random metal marines which happened to include Naismith's Death Squad and Missile Launcher models. I didn't know how special they were at the time, but man I wish I still had them around now. I lent a friend my entire army of Marines, Dreadnaught and the Whirlwind for a local gaming day and I never saw them again. I still have the first run of metal Deathwing Terminator marines however, due to still playing Space Hulk to this day.
This was a really fantastic video yall! I really appreciate the amount of research you put into it and your quips, as always, are excellent. Keep up the great work!
Oh god, the Space Crusade music at the end! Great video - having been around for all eras of Space Marines, I can happily straddle warming nostalgia balanced with admiration of the joys of modern sculpting. Things are so much better, but the old ways were so mc more exciting as they were new. Now, try out paper Blood Bowl!
I received a random box of warhammer from an old teacher’s models. One of the models I received was an odd space marine from 1991, it’s a space crusade miniature! I also have a metal pain boyz from the same year. Love those models and know they survived the years.
I owned Space Crusade as a kid, as well as many beaky older models from the late 80s. I still have most of them, except for Space Crusade, which disappeared in the Warp. :( I still have that captain @ 7:40 and it's still my favourite marine. Nostalgia, probably. Thanks for the video!
As I binge this series, I really appreciate the use of "codices" in the intro. The thing is (and this is a 'me' problem), I have cursed myself into being hyper aware of both the Latin and Anglicized plurals; which means that when "codexes" is used in the body of the videos I get pluralization whiplash, which is fun.
It is worth noting that 1990, 1993, 2006, etc. space marine bits all are pretty easily interchangeable with primaris kits too. The heads, shoulders, and backpacks are plug and play. The arms just require a little clipping on the primaris, and maybe a tiny bit of sanding. The chestplates require clipping and filing. Etc.
I just saw this. And after reading Saturnine. I was happy to find that tidbit where a certain characters name came from. Wonderful. Thanks for that interesting tidbit.
Back when i used to go to GW they had a huge catalogue in the store that you could use to order OOP miniatures, it had just about every metal miniature released (no plastics). I spent a lot of time flicking through those folders looking at the old miniatures and ordering them for conversions.
Upon seeing the size comparison at the end, the only words that came out of my mouth were: "awwwwwwww~, how cute!". And I'm a 200 cm tall guy in his twenties. The power of nostalgia is real. I might not have played Wh40k in the 90s or even early 2000s, but it's still my oldest hobby and everything related to it brings childhood memories from the depths of my soul.
This was a treat to watch, especially on seeing the history of these older models, looking over these vanguard marines i have here now i'm a tad more appreciative of how far they've come. can't believe the very first marine was a beakie!
This was really good, I quite enjoyed this. Maybe a coincidence, but I've spent the past few days on The Stuff of Legends looking through the WFB 5th edition era Citadel annuals, and I was fascinated by how the various ranges evolved and changed (and how much the Dwarf range was a complete mess until the Grudge of Drong campaign pack started to sort it out). So I will gladly be an enabler for you Wib. Buy more models you don't need, and expand the scope to WFB so you can buy even more models you don't need! Also, so we can see which races got the shaft over the years....
Great video, especially the bit about space crusade marines being used in modern GW tournaments! I didn't know this could be an issue! I also didn't know I cared! Thanks for this
I got an immaculate Space Crusade box with Mission Dreadnought included, a couple months ago, and i'm removing mouldlines and painting them as i watch this. They're awesomely nostalgic (i only got to see the box on the shelves as a kid) and it's hilarious to note the QC of a "made in New Zealand" 1980s product. Thanks for the investigative journalism (no buzzing hidden camera hat tho...?).
Yes, Wib. Yes. _You must buy more models you do not need._
This was amazing and great. Really innovative and fun spin on the series and you should absolutely do more now and again. The research you put into this does not go unappreciated.
Alfa, please stop encouraging an addict. Plastic (and diecast) crack is helluva drug.
@@Szoki86 And resin. And Alfabusa's videos.
GET BACK TO WORK, BUSA! >:[
HELLO BATTLE BROTHER
You dont 'have' to get back to work just make it good when it comes out.
This is **heresy**
Gw's record-keeping is worse than the Imperium of man's, I want to believe this is intentional.
Same
I sometimes think that GW head office records don't know the difference between when the model was SCULPTED, CAST or MANUFACTURED. which is why you consistently see three different dates for things.
gw's book keeping is done by tzeench doncha know
lore, dates memory, naming everything
@@christophersanders-brownin8527 Huh, thats a very logical explanation
LOL
Meanwhile our store manager is like "sure, you can use your self-made clay Death Guard models. Just stay true to the rules." Great guy.
I actually played my first Warhammer 40k game just last week using random models from dnd sets. Our local game store just got some Warhammer stuff and apparently I was the first to take interest sadly I can't purchase any
Is there anything more against the spirit of the hobby (wargaming and miniature building) than the puritanical insanity of GW's model policy? We need more shop managers like the one you mentioned.
@@benwaddi Eh, they are trying to sell a specific line of models, to come in not by any and then sit around advertising the competition is a bit unfair. It's a bit like going to your local cafe and eating the Big Mac you bought next door.
@@poshboy4749 There have been managers that have barred people for using one model from a competitor, they also have that rule about models being a certain % of GW parts despite - up until recently - GW not having models for everything. That is what I am talking about, not someone plonking a bunch of Mantic stuff down and demanding to play 40k with proxies, that is just rude and obnoxious. I do wonder how Warhammer Ancients was supposed to be played in stores when GW stopped making models for it soon after release, and Warmaster Ancients where they never supported it with models. Managers back in the 2000s were just as strict but I guess the games were rare enough it rarely cropped up. (Oddly enough I just googled Warhammer Ancients models and Warlord Games' website comes up with them selling army packs for the second edition release back in 2010)
@@benwaddi Well I hadn't come across that strict of rules. That's clearly stupid following the letter of the law not the spirit.
1:25
"Brother A Skull"
"Brother Longun"
"Brother Leanman"
"Battle Brother Dedmole"
"Brother Froth"
The *M* on the shoulder is for "Mperium of Man", duh
space *M*arine
How did this comment not get a heart lol
@@fordo6360 it's so damned lovable, that's how.
; D
M = 1000 in the Roman numeric system
@@randelclawson7695 I have an VERY old white dwarf magazine who's last page has a painting of a rogue trader style marine with an stylized M for the chapter icon
and underneath the figure was a symbol for Tzeentch so M=1000 as in thousand sons...
Confused about release dates? Time moves strangely in the Warp.
Brother, we have spotted a Space Hulk just south of the Raven’s Claw Battle Barge. Time to don Tactical Dreadnought armour.
@@lt.branwulfram4794 what
@@herzogvonosterreich3027 Rescue the gene sperm BROTHER
You failed to answer the most obvious question: At this current rate of growth, when will Space Marines catch the Imperator class Titan?
Imrahil they are getting close, with the release of the Bandai marine they are almost there
What do you mean by catch?
@@k-leb4671 the moment in time that space marine armor is bigger than a fucking imperator class titan...
By the next millenium at least.
(according to my calculations)
@@danieldeak9141 sounds legit.
I had no idea Jes Goodwin has been in GW for so long. To think that one of the original designers is still active and plays a big role in todays designs is both refreshing and hopeful.
He did a handful of illustrations for the RT rulebook, as well, IIRC
Hi, I would like to report a problem with the video at timestamp 7:40. You imply that new Mk7 armor looks better than RT era Beakies. Clearly a mistake, I await your retraction.
I too took issue with that statement, and also the idea that Mk VII armour is more iconic than beakie armour.
The old RT era Beakie armour is far more iconic. My Crimson Fists army is still made entirely from that range.
Beakie for the win
Beakie heads on new bodies. Specifically the sanguinary guard. Nuff said.
Beakies forever
The first taccy was released in 1998. I was working for GW in 97-09. As a point of interest, the big statue at WHW (used to stand out the front) was not blown up from the same static marine but sculpted. The bolts in the magazine were made from pot noodle pots. I remember the full timers meeting at WHW (or the large gym hall as it was then) and they told us all about the brand spanking new head office that finally moved manufacturing, mail order (from Eastwood a few miles away) and the studio (from Castle Boulevard down the road) to the same campus. Working at WHW was awesome for the things you saw. Thanks for the memories.
I remember WHW in the 90s, when the shop was downstairs with all the mail order catalogues in the middle. I still miss the fact you used to be able to buy any individual part from any model you wanted... It was amazing for conversions.
Chris Dawkins that’s exactly what I remember. The thing was as a member of staff you brought models by weight. It was £20 a Kg for both plastics and metal. If you visited WHW (not what it was called as at the time it was just HQ) you could go to the picking floor and pick your own stuff. Rack upon rack of little trays of minis. You couldn’t empty a tray but when someone wanted a lot of something you take the tray empty the models into your picking box, put one back and move on. A friend of mine brought a 3000 point halfling army for £50. The only model you couldn’t buy by weight was the metal Thunderhawk were you only got a pitiful 50% off 😉. When I worked at WHW in 03/04 people could still order bits. This was sent down to the picking floor directly below the store. We then had to collect the orders through a hatch by the front entrance. Awesome times that GW won’t go back to as the company’s focus has shifted.
@@geoffbushill5587 Yep, 1998 for sure, they were available at Games Day a couple of weeks early before hitting the shops.
Really well made video.
I love how you used the research into the usability of the Space Crusade models, on the tabletop. As an excuse to go to Warhammer World.
Marine sizes are weird. So Space Marines were not true scale compared to normal humans like Guardsmen, then we got Primaris who were the correct size for normal marines, but are supposed to be bigger than original space marines meaning thechnically they should be even bigger, then we got the new Chaos Marines that are Primaris sized but aren't primaris, meaning that they're now true scale, but actually the same size as the marines that are supposed to be bigger than them!
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
GW WHY?! YOU'RE GIVING ME AN OCD ATTACK!
Power of imagination, I guess.
I think the new chaos marines (and plague marines) are a bit smaller than primaris marines
Don't think about the scale too much, you'll give your self a brain aneurysm, serfice to say the mini's are sized to what looks good and is practical to use, a full size marine wouldn't look anything like the mini, it'd be anatomically impossible.
@@eduardobalieiro862 You are correct, the scale is technically primaris are a noticeable bit taller than CSM. I'd assume if you compared the new CSM to the blindbox marines they've been pumping out, it'd be comparable.
My theory is that while the size difference (as well as prowess in battle) of primaris vs firstborn was heavily emphasized in their initial release, that was mostly to give a lore justification for doing more than just redesigning the models. Yes they could have just gone “marines are truescale now” and we all would have been happy, but instead they are updating the entire marine faction. So with each successive codex, we’ll see less emphasis on the exact differences between primaris and firstborn, it’ll just be what gear they have and how do they fight.
Putting aside the lore arguments over them, (I have no issues with primaris myself) I feel its been worth the crazy trip to get the models we have today. Especially with models like the Bladeguard veterans.
Now we just need to get that kind of model updates across every faction.
This was cool, I always love seeing old figures. And seeing the original Space Marine next to an Aggressor is hilarious.
Also, now I need a squad of old school Beakies as veterans.
I had myself a veteran squad purely of old metal figures. Looks very silly beside the new Sternguard.
Also put beaky helmet on 50% of my assault troops.
Manlet Astartes BTFO, Cawl is best Space Dad.
The "Start Collecting" pack for regular space marines has beakie helmets
I’m running retro termies as Relic Termies
I just love the beakie models. I play Raven Guard as an excuse to use more of them.
Same, I play Dark Angels and I have a beakie I call "Silver Beak" named after an unfortunate painting accident.
I recall that the 'M' on the LE2 model relates to the squad markings in Rogue Trader, that small disc on a marines pad indicated the weapon speciality/loadout of that individual marine, so possibly 'Melta' in this case.
I don't have my copy of rogue trader to hand, so I can't double check, but it was on the colour pages alongside the rank markings.
0:39 it makes sense because, and I quote “nobody wanted to buy anything that didn’t look like starship troopers, or the offspring of a piss drinking survivalist and a speech impaired boxer.” Thanks Emps.
11:54 Well, dang. I lucked into a mix of the 1993 plastics and Space Crusade marines, including two Marines with Assault Cannons...and those weird Soviet looking missile launchers. Stripped them and happily repainted them. I got ahold of so many in fact, I painted a few of them as a squad for my friends Raven Guard and gave them to him...
I like how the HH Master of Signals is based on the metal comms Marine, Brother Orinoco, because leaning in to them looking like wombles was funny.
I appreciate the recognition of “some” of the Space Wolf model line as “UNFORGIVABLE”.
The M on the shoulder is the Latin numeral for 1000, because these are (retroactively) from the Thousand Sons chapter.
That's right, the Thousand Sons are the original Space Marine.
Two things-
The painting is phenomenal
The temptation to take the Warhammer World Rhino is too strong. Even if it has no motor, stick one in it, go Orky on its ass and take a Sunday Cruise
From Nottingham
Can confirm it absolutely has an engine
Nottingham here too, it absolutely has an engine and until it was moved to it's current location staff occasionally took it around the carpark for a joyride (I myself being one of the lucky few none-GW staff to have been in it). It's noisy as hell and spouts a phenomenal amount of exhaust fumes. Previously it was in Blood Raven livery for the Dawn of War game marketing (where you can also find videos of it driving around fields on UA-cam)...
As to S&Ws visit to warhammer world - they must have gone on a weekend or when busy. I go down most Tuesdays (until the recent lockdown) and have literally handed over 3D printed models and minis to staff who've then gone off to show it to their mates before letting me play on the tables.
The general rule seems to be that if it's quiet and there's no legal team around the staff do not really care if you ask politely and don't take the piss by doing something that would get the staff in trouble :)
For reference, White Dwarf 129 (September 1990) featured the first appearance of MkVII armour in 'Eavy Metal (p.29). These MkVIIs were only available in Blisters of three models and differed slightly from later models in that the metal bodies were seperated at the waist, allowing a little more variety in posing and better interaction with the RTB01 plastics - these blisters seem not to have been around for long though.
White Dwarf 130 (October 1990) featured (inside back cover) the first advert for the new Space Marine Strike Force - the boxed set containing 15 metal MkVIIs with plastic Arms/Backpacks - it is a model from this set which you showed.
I've never played Space Crusade, but after all these years, that kid in the advert saying "Dreadnaught!" is still etched in my memory. Almost as strongly as the one saying "Browd sord!" from the Hero Quest advert.
These metal body plastic armed models really do hold up well
I have a load of 1987 plastic marines and also the 1986 metal models, all of them together it goes to 53 old models
I kinda love the "Ex Brother Marine"
...When it comes to dieing and making a huge deal of it, hes your man X-D
Yeah I wasnt expecting essentially a dead space marine model XD
No, no, he's not dead .... he's resting.
...or pining for Terra.
And that model was purchasable for AGES. Is it THAT different from the Space Marine Casualties kit?
The 3rd edition model is when bolters started looking bizarre though. They don't make any sense anymore. The magazine curves at the bottom, but goes into a straight magazine well, the charging handle and ejector port are located well above the barrel where it doesn't make any sense and are simply too small to eject a bolter sized shell casing. Now you might argue that bolters don't eject shell casings, but there is plenty of official art where they do. There seems to be general confusion as to whether the bolter is a short barreled 40mm autocannon with rocket assisted projectiles, or simply an oversized submachine gun. You can see this in video games of the era a lot where many iterations have bolter magazines come in at 15 bullets only and have the weapon fire single shots.
The production quality of these videos are almost equal to studio netflix documentarys. Great job guys love the content.
I was introduced to 40k when a friend gave me a single mono-pose marine circa 1998, nostalgia indeed. Great stuff guys.
Please do this but with the guard range. You will have to buy so many old models.
The thrilled look on Snipe's face in the still image means if it weren't already a bucket list priority to grab a copy of Space Crusade, it certainly is now!
14:50 "one thing that we really wish was still around from the old days"... SQUATS!
Oh, not where you were going with that.
One big advantage of old models being small, though, is that since 40k is going for 'true' LoS, they're easier to get behind cover when you need to.
This made my day. Over the years I've developed an affinity for the early gw models. And I agree, putting the designers name next to the kit they designed would be awesome. I always feel bad doing converting projects because of the work thar went into design.
“We invite you to emulate this pose, it’s really uncomfortable!” You both are clearly not Slav
Very pleasing to my seeing and listening parts
I have stupid tones of this stuff, it was passed down and now its at me I have 30 or so of the first impirial marines, oyu know the ones that squat, and about 10 of the ones that came after, couples with 20 of the original terminator squad and a original rhino and I think my haul is truly massive!
Evolution of Terminator models would be a cool nostalgia trip.
2:57 the 'M' stands for Morris... most imperial subjects were called Morris back then.
I just want to see snipe and wib play space crusade, please make it happen.
Props for having them all painted, I appreciated having that shot of all the kinds of models side by side with the same colour scheme at the end! Good shit!
I unknowingly bought a box of 93 space marines in their original box for $15 I should've realized they were old though because right next to them was a box of Orks labeled as Space Orks
I just discovered your channel I don't know how to explain how awesome I found your videos. They're amazingly edited, the exposition is so good, clear and funny (seriously how much did it take to find all the information you explain???) and your models do look really well. It's just I cannot imagine the effort you had to put into it, and I really like the rigor and the genuine passion with which you talk. I foresee a great future for this channel. Keep it up!
A year later and I'm still enthusiastically waiting for that terminator history teased at the start of the video
We knew them as Space Wombles... Absolute classics and properly 25mm NOT 28, 32, 54 or any other scale creep to justify extortionate prices.
We do appreciate your investigating S&W. Keep up the great work. You two make some of the beat 40k content around.
those names at 5:17 are just gold. I particularly like "brother longgun"
I love your videos please make more you two have the best humour in any 40k video channel
Would love to see how terminators have improved over the years as well as chaos marines. Great video thoroughly enjoyed it.
Great replay value, watching this for like the 5th time right now
"good is a relative"
me, a salamander fan: is that like a personal attack or something?
That chaplain sorta looks like a boy from the Deathskullz used 'Hiz Morki Kunn'n Ta Sneek In Da Beakyz Camp Look'n Ta Loot Sum Rit Flash Gubbinz!'
Great, great video. Loved it. I am restoring and magnetizing my copy of Space Crusade at the moment. Also the plastic beaky box was the fire GW set I ever owned. I believe around 1991.
What about Johnny the space marine who listens to his Bolter Magazine of Wisdom?
True wisdom
Ah yes, Brother Craig and his font of wisdom.
“They’re all heretics, Johnny.” “You need to purge them all”
@@krism.6598 The machine spirit guides him well
Hey there- really enjoy your videos, and subscribed. Your “Codex Compliant”
series is so good. I wanted to point out something that I had only previously noticed in one of my old (like, 1989 and me in High School old) issues of White Dwarf. In this video, starting at 5:18, the Marines shown on the order form featuring “Brother A Skull” and the wonderfully Pythonesque “Ex Brother Marine”- take note of the Marine who is the first one in the center row. His name is “Communication Officer Orinoco”, and in my magazine he’s just listed as “Marine with Scanner”- but if you look carefully, specifically his pose, the flipped open scanner screen and keypad on his left forearm vambrace armour that he’s typing on with his right hand, and his helmet that is oddly elongated in the back with discs on the rear section, he’s a rather unique looking fella. Now look at Forge World’s Horus Heresy range model for the Space Marine “Master of the Signal”- he comes as a set with the Legion Champion model- it’s Communication Officer Orinoco. With every single one of those features that I mentioned- it’s the same model. Except it’s resin, of course, and not metal. (And instead of 3 Space Marines for £2.50, it’s 2 for £32.) I ran across the magazine ad by chance one day a few months ago, and I had just built and painted the Master of the Signal perhaps two days prior to that, so every detail was etched in my mind. I just thought it was cool to see him again, and knowing that they hadn’t changed him one bit made it a fun discovery. Sorry for such a long message, just thought you’d find it interesting, much as I did. Keep up the great work. Edit: I’m returning to this video a year later, and realized that I made a slight error in my comment (well, two, if me thinking that anyone would actually read it can be considered an error)- the “Master of The Signal” model and the “Marine with Scanner” model have one slight difference than “Orinoco” here. The front of both of their helmets are MKIV, while the front of Orinoco’s is a beaky MKVI. The backs of all three helmets have the same elongated and disc-capped design, but the faces differ slightly. I don’t know why I didn’t notice it before, nor do I think anyone will find it interesting, either- but there you go.
I bought a metal 1994 (I think) Space Wolves Standard Bearer that was unopened and still had his plastic backpack and seperate arm
He's really small next to my Aggressors
What a great little light hearted video. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Also loved how you painted them up. My first marine box was a Salamanders tactical squad from the 3rd war for Armageddon and I didn't have any super glue so I couldn't glue on the metal plasma gun or multi melta.
You two are dope. Fun video and I collected these from the beginning however now I feel SUPER OLD. Thanks a lot!!! There was a set you forgot to mention called Space Marine Strike Force which ushered in the 1st metal/plastic arm Marines (Mk 8) The very first ones actually had “nubs on the bodies and socket joints in the plastic arm pieces” similar to the Plastic beakies that allowed for more pose ability but then for some reason they ended up sheering off the nubs and made the arm pieces flush. Regardless of my nerdy knowledge of citadel miniatures, this was a super fun video
This was an AWESOME video to watch! I left this hoby in 92 and am getting back into it now. You just filled in ALL the gaps. Please do Orks!!
To answer your questions, the LE2 ISM, was sculpted and the mold created, in 1984. The model was available for purchase in 1985. The model was taken "off the shelf" in 1986. The different dates, is different publishers choosing different points of "production."
Just as the US ordinance department couldn't decide what the T28/T95 was. T28 heavy tank, T95 SPG, or T28 Super heavy...
You are missing the MK7 space marine strike force minis which came as two metal parts, torso and legs, released during rogue trader.
The plastics in the box of six you showed was 2nd ed era.
Nice trip down memory lane though :)
For some reason this video randomly appeared on my Recommendation feed (I'm guessing because Bruva commented, and I've been binging his channel recently), but this is great. The recommendation feed is finally showing me something I want to see, and not reactionary trash. Omnissiah be praised! This video was great, and made me nostalgic for when I was a wean, and I first dragged my dad into a Games Workshop in 2001. I still have an old catalogue, and it is a TRIP to see how cludged the old models look compared to now.
Um, can we just mention how beautifully your marines are painted?
Awesome video dudes :)
Please you guys make more of these! More videos in general! You guys rock and I totally hope you get more recognition for the amazing work you guys put out 😇🙏🏻
Every time I see the two photos of Snipe being enthusiastic about Space Crusade, I can't help but giggle, especially the second photo. Beautiful work. XD
Something about this video is just very relaxing. Its nice to come back to when I need some chill
My first marines were those 1993 mono pose. I eventually an entire company of my homebrew chapter (150+ models with vehicles) 4-5 of that original box of 10 are still intact among the company.
I have recently discovered your UA-cam channel and binged on all of it. While at work. Causing me to be sacked. Thank you... Keep up the good work! Seriously, great stuff here!
This was a BRILLIANT video on a subject that I really love. In fact, I was hoping someone would give an edition by edition breakdown of the evolution of Space Marine sculpts. Space Crusade was my introduction to the Warhammer 40K world. Now a ton of great memories are flooding back to me. I really enjoy your videos. Keep them coming!
Pretty great work there!
Maybe someone should tell Hasbro to stop just sitting on the rights of Space Crusade and maybe do a collab with Games Workshop for a remake...
( and yes; after reasearch, Hasbro are the one who have the rights for Space Crusade now... )
Will be a way better Kid version of Warhammer 40k that... whatever Warhammer Adventures is...
Rework it in plastic...damn that be cool.
I'd just like them to rerelease the game unchanged - preferably at a time/price point I can afford it ;P
@@youdontneedtoseehisidentif4939 I got Space Crusade for about £60. Buy an incomplete one, then source the missing pieces on ebay. You can end up with a near mint set for £50-£70 less than ebay sellers want for a mint game.
I’ve been getting back into the hobby after about 15 years. I started playing around 1990 during Rouge Trader and still have a few mini from that time. Were the models great? No. But there was something pure about them that still makes me smile.
Loved it . First time viewer. I started with Rogue Trader and have tons of those old models including old Robots or "Men of Iron" as they are referred to these days.
Really enjoyed the video. I felt that the production of it has improved and it really shows. I quite like the cut a-ways and close ups of Wib's face...I need more.
I think part of the reason for the smaller early Space Marines is that they hadn't completely established just how much they had been altered from regular humans. Heck, in the beginning they only had a toughness of 3. It wasn't until they boosted that up to 4 and really got into the lore of just what a Space Marine was that the models took their first leap up in size.
Here where I am in Australia during the early 90s, it was next to impossible to get GW miniatures unless you paid the big bucks to have them shipped directly from the UK. A small gaming shop opened up in the CBD and started selling the First Edition rulebook, which I grabbed, and second hand metal models and plastic box sets.
My first buys were a Space Marine plastic army (20 standard beakie marines, no special characters), a Rhino (which I immediately converted into a Whirlwind per the White Dwarf instructions), a metal Doredeo Class Dreadnaught and a handful of random metal marines which happened to include Naismith's Death Squad and Missile Launcher models. I didn't know how special they were at the time, but man I wish I still had them around now. I lent a friend my entire army of Marines, Dreadnaught and the Whirlwind for a local gaming day and I never saw them again.
I still have the first run of metal Deathwing Terminator marines however, due to still playing Space Hulk to this day.
With the new Chaos Marine boxset coming out I'd love a look at their history from you guys!
This was a really fantastic video yall! I really appreciate the amount of research you put into it and your quips, as always, are excellent. Keep up the great work!
I never tire of these vids, I keep coming back for that wee nostalgia kick. Damn fine work guys.
I really enjoyed this video in comparison to the normal stuff. I suppose its more my drag man. Great stuff regardless and stellar painting!
Oh god, the Space Crusade music at the end! Great video - having been around for all eras of Space Marines, I can happily straddle warming nostalgia balanced with admiration of the joys of modern sculpting. Things are so much better, but the old ways were so mc more exciting as they were new.
Now, try out paper Blood Bowl!
I received a random box of warhammer from an old teacher’s models. One of the models I received was an odd space marine from 1991, it’s a space crusade miniature! I also have a metal pain boyz from the same year. Love those models and know they survived the years.
Fantastic work! I enjoyed your craft and humor. A treasure of the community.
I owned Space Crusade as a kid, as well as many beaky older models from the late 80s. I still have most of them, except for Space Crusade, which disappeared in the Warp. :(
I still have that captain @ 7:40 and it's still my favourite marine. Nostalgia, probably. Thanks for the video!
As I binge this series, I really appreciate the use of "codices" in the intro. The thing is (and this is a 'me' problem), I have cursed myself into being hyper aware of both the Latin and Anglicized plurals; which means that when "codexes" is used in the body of the videos I get pluralization whiplash, which is fun.
Only the highest investigative effort into only the most important facts.
It is worth noting that 1990, 1993, 2006, etc. space marine bits all are pretty easily interchangeable with primaris kits too. The heads, shoulders, and backpacks are plug and play. The arms just require a little clipping on the primaris, and maybe a tiny bit of sanding. The chestplates require clipping and filing. Etc.
I just saw this. And after reading Saturnine. I was happy to find that tidbit where a certain characters name came from. Wonderful. Thanks for that interesting tidbit.
The RTB01 box set were my first marines .. that's why the Corvus will always be my favourite helmet design.
And I love that box art!
Back when i used to go to GW they had a huge catalogue in the store that you could use to order OOP miniatures, it had just about every metal miniature released (no plastics). I spent a lot of time flicking through those folders looking at the old miniatures and ordering them for conversions.
Upon seeing the size comparison at the end, the only words that came out of my mouth were: "awwwwwwww~, how cute!".
And I'm a 200 cm tall guy in his twenties. The power of nostalgia is real. I might not have played Wh40k in the 90s or even early 2000s, but it's still my oldest hobby and everything related to it brings childhood memories from the depths of my soul.
Enjoyed this. I have marines from all these generations mentioned in my army and love all the variation.
This was a treat to watch, especially on seeing the history of these older models, looking over these vanguard marines i have here now i'm a tad more appreciative of how far they've come. can't believe the very first marine was a beakie!
This video is AWESOME. Perfection. Thank You Snipe and Wib
This was really good, I quite enjoyed this. Maybe a coincidence, but I've spent the past few days on The Stuff of Legends looking through the WFB 5th edition era Citadel annuals, and I was fascinated by how the various ranges evolved and changed (and how much the Dwarf range was a complete mess until the Grudge of Drong campaign pack started to sort it out).
So I will gladly be an enabler for you Wib. Buy more models you don't need, and expand the scope to WFB so you can buy even more models you don't need! Also, so we can see which races got the shaft over the years....
Great video, especially the bit about space crusade marines being used in modern GW tournaments! I didn't know this could be an issue! I also didn't know I cared! Thanks for this
I got an immaculate Space Crusade box with Mission Dreadnought included, a couple months ago, and i'm removing mouldlines and painting them as i watch this. They're awesomely nostalgic (i only got to see the box on the shelves as a kid) and it's hilarious to note the QC of a "made in New Zealand" 1980s product.
Thanks for the investigative journalism (no buzzing hidden camera hat tho...?).
I had that RTB 01 box. I added my SPACE CRUSADE miniatures to give them more variety
Do it like every kit from the beginning to now that would be the best video ever
I just wanna say, I salute you for the safe trigger finger even though its just a prop at 5:08. Pretty good habit I would say!
Whenever Snipe and Wib appear... unfocus your eyes and behold the terror.
MOAR.
Really enjoy looking at the evolution of the range.
Also the old kits with a more modern painting style look fantastic :D